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Classifications and Specifications

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TheMadGent
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Classifications and Specifications

Standard Disclaimer: I'm not a mod, none of this is final, etc.

For everyone wondering how the classes matched up to their names, and hasn't seen the chart here (and because I find the chart hard to read), Here is a list of the classifications and specifications available in the game:

COMMANDER -- CROWD CONTROL
Brigadier -- Control / Assault
Director -- Control / Support
Executor -- Control / Ranged

RANGER -- RANGED DAMAGE
Hunter -- Ranged / Manipulation
Partisan -- Ranged / Support
Gunner -- Ranged / Defense

GUARDIAN -- BUFF / DEBUFF
Sentinel -- Support / Ranged
Warden -- Support / Manipulation
Vindicator -- Support / Assault

ENFORCER -- MELEE DAMAGE
Gladiator -- Melee / Defense
Striker -- Melee / Manipulation
Bodyguard -- Melee / Support

STALWART -- TANK
Bulwark -- Defense / Melee
Centurion -- Defense / Manipulation
Bastion -- Defense / Assault

OPERATOR -- PET SUMMONER
Engineer -- Pets / Support
Taskmaster -- Pets / Assault
Ringleader -- Pets / Manipulation

Your classification (in caps on the list) determines your primary powerset and your general role on a team. Your specification (in lowercase, beneath the classification) determines your secondary powerset.

For those of you unfamiliar with CoH terms, an Assault set contains a mix of melee and ranged powers, and a Manipulation set contains a grab-bag of attack, control, and self-buff powers.

People are planned to have access to additional powers in the form of tertiary powersets, working like power pools in CoH. These are planned to include slimmed-down versions of other primary or secondary sets. For example, to make Superman, you can take Superstrength and Invulnerability as your primary and secondary sets, then pick up Energy Blast as a tertiary set to get eye-beams.

Finally passive abilities, like Brute Fury or Tanker Punch-voke are planned to be a choice of three per Classification, and are planned to be decoupled from Specifications. So (hypothetical example) any of the three Enforcer specs can choose between Scrapper Crits, Brute Fury, or Stalker Assasination.

The world is a mess and I just ... need to rule it.

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Thank you once more, Gent..

Thank you once more, Gent.. Now I'm certain Ringleader will be exactly what Nightmare will be in CoT...well, one of the 2 builds that is :D The other being either a partisan (if it truly is like the Corruptor AT) or if one comes out, an Assault/Manipulation AT

Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...

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That chart took me a second

That chart took me a second to figure out as well. Just note that these archetypes are not set in stone, and, most likely, not all will be available at launch.

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While I know next to nothing

While I know next to nothing about code/programming, I can easily see Operators coming in later - I think they would require an extra level of care/coding to get right if they are to be anything like CoX's Masterminds. If Commanders are anything like Controllers, their pets (if they have any) might need some extra work as well.

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If such is the case, I hope

If such is the case, I hope it comes in a timely manner (maybe a month or two) and that they allow players to change their archetype to it if they'd like.... I really.. REALLY want that set @_@ and I kinda hate alting, which is bad for an Altaholic.

Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...

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TheMadGent
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PURE CONJECTURE I'm not sure

PURE CONJECTURE I'm not sure if pets will make it in to the control sets. They're kind of a strange relic from before Masterminds. PURE CONJECTURE

The world is a mess and I just ... need to rule it.

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I see Bastion listed as a

I see Bastion listed as a 'Defense/Assault' combo. PLEASE tell me that this means that we've finally gotten over our irrational fear of Tankmages? I WANT to be able to build a guy who can take a punch (not as well as a Tank), throw one (not as well as a Scrapper) and occasionally blast stuff (not as well as a Blaster). Redside had a couple of ATs that could do this towards the end and they didn't break the game. I would rather that they not be signature ATs as the ones in CoV were but you get my drift I think.

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

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I hope Control sets have pets

I hope Control sets have pets like they did in CoH; they were a big reason why I liked those sets. I found them very helpful for mitigation (via distraction), depending on the actual pet. (The two Doms I played to 50 had very different pets - Earth's Animated Stone was a mini-Tanker who helped to keep aggro off of my character, while Gravity's Singularity helped me shut down enemies by adding its own holds and immobilizes to my own - but both were a big part of my strategy)

That said, "Commander" really does sound more like what the Mastermind should be called. A commander is someone who leads willing groups into battle, not someone who uses forces of nature to hold people in place or render them unconscious. "Operator" brings to mind someone who runs machines (or who sits on the phone and goes "Number ple-ase!"), not the leader of an army. "Brigadier" and "Engineer" have the same issue: the former is the leader of groups, but the latter is what's being used for a class who leads groups. (I like "Ringleader", though)

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While I should have brought

While I should have brought up a long time ago, before the names were chosen, but I definitely agree with Thunder Glove on the names.
I once suggested "Conqueror" for Engineer, but was told that this sounded too evil (but isn't Ringleader a more villainous label?)
I suggest replacing "Commander" with "Manipulator" - I think Manipulation should be renamed, anyways.

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Yes. Manipulation / Assault

Yes. Manipulation / Assault are placeholder names and will most likely be different from class to class.

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Comicsluvr wrote:
Comicsluvr wrote:

I see Bastion listed as a 'Defense/Assault' combo. PLEASE tell me that this means that we've finally gotten over our irrational fear of Tankmages? I WANT to be able to build a guy who can take a punch (not as well as a Tank), throw one (not as well as a Scrapper) and occasionally blast stuff (not as well as a Blaster). Redside had a couple of ATs that could do this towards the end and they didn't break the game. I would rather that they not be signature ATs as the ones in CoV were but you get my drift I think.

This! Originally my first character I made up while surfing all the info I could about CoH before beta started, was going to be a bit like Robocop. Primarly invulnerable, but backed up with somewhat weak ranged attacks. I scrapped that half an hour into beta and did a Splinter cell kind of guy. I liked him, but it was never what I really wanted to play.

To be honest, I was hoping for a less AT/Huge powersets kind of system. The only thing I liked with CO from CoH was the ability to pick powers how I wanted. Powersets locked you down to much in your creativity.

I could see a hybrid system though were we used only, but a lot more powerpools. 4 powers mached together in a theme. The old Energy blaster could for instance be recreated with 3 different pools: Energy brawl with melee energy attacks, Energy blast with ranged Energy attacks and finnaly Energy Aura with Aoe power. Just an example.

Tertiary powers are mentioned, and I sure do hope they offer more than the old power pools to a build.

Less premade "trees", more choices, that's what I say =D

-----[ Rad ]-----

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Hey Guys!

Hey Guys!

So I am probably setting myself up to look like someone who was totally obsessed with CoH (played from release to close on Freedom), but I was going to show how I would have redone the Archetypes. It is funny because I started this before I knew about City of Titans, but reading this thread it reminded me and I found the old word document! Obviously it doesn't perfectly match the free form system of inherents that is being planned, and I went through and tweaked it to more closely resemble the names already chosen (along with revamping a few class decisions to match the above categories)... I figured I could post it as a pure brainstorm if nothing else :)

ARSENAL: Inherent Intensity: The ability to charge an attack by holding the key down, increasing the damage and accuracy of the attack relative to the time it has been charged.

1.Cannon (Ranged / Ranged): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all attacks to chain combos. Each attack increases the damage of the next as long as there is no break in execution between abilities.
2.Artillery (Ranged / Melee): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all attacks to automatically increase in damage depending on the amount of enemies within melee range of the user.
3.Bane (Ranged / Debuff): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all attacks to possess a chance of causing double damage if the enemies are under an effect of the user’s secondary abilities (stackable).

WARRIOR: Inherent Focus: The ability for all attacks to have a chance of causing double damage to all targets.

1.Brawler (Melee / Melee): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all attacks to chain combos. Each attack increases the damage of the next as long as there is no break in execution between abilities.
2.Gladiator (Melee / Shields): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all attacks to automatically increase in damage depending on the amount of enemies within melee range of the user.
3.Striker (Melee / Debuff): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all attacks to possess a chance of causing double damage if the enemies are under an effect of the user’s secondary abilities (stackable).

GUARDIAN: Inherent Influence: The ability for all team members to have moderately increased damage, accuracy, defense, and resistance when nearby user.

1.Sentinel (Support / Support): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all team members to have a strong boost to damage, accuracy, defense, and resistance when nearby the user. After a set amount of time experiencing these increased effects, the team members will automatically experience reductions in recharge and endurance usage as well.
2.Vindicator (Support / Ranged): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all team members to have a strong boost to damage, accuracy, defense, and resistance for a set amount of time when affected by a primary ability executed from the user. The length of this effect depends on the rank of the ability used.
3.Warden (Support / Shields): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability to increase buff potency depending on the amount of enemies within melee range of the user.

STALWARK: Inherent Stature: The ability for all attacks to produce a taunt effect on the target and any enemy nearby.

1.Bulwark (Shields / Shields): Inherent Modification: Gains a strong boost to base health and regeneration along with a strong boost to base resistance, defense, and taunt values.
2.Bastion (Shields / Ranged): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability to have higher base damage to all attacks. Gains the ability for all attacks to automatically decrease in damage while increasing resistance, defense, health, and regeneration values depending on the amount of enemies within melee range of the user.
3.Centurion (Shields / Melee): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for every attack to automatically increase user base resistance, defense, and regeneration values for sets amount of time depending on rank of the attack (stackable).

COMMANDER: Inherent Sovereignty: The ability for all pets to have moderately increased damage, accuracy, defense, and resistance when nearby user.

1.Engineer (Summons / Summons): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all pets to have a strong boost to damage, accuracy, defense, and resistance when nearby the user. After a set amount of time experiencing these increased effects, the pets will automatically upgrade (resulting in new attacks and increased base statistics).
2.Ringleader (Summons / Support): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all pets to experience an upgrade (resulting in new attacks and increased base statistics) for a set amount of time when affected by a secondary ability executed from the user. The length of this effect depends on the rank of the ability used.
3.Bodyguard (Summons / Shields): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all pets to have a strong boost to damage, accuracy and to undergo automatic upgrades (resulting in new attacks and increased base statistics) based on the amount of enemies within melee range of the user.

ENFORCER: Inherent Suppression: The ability for all attacks to have a chance of causing double damage on targets with a control status effect.

1.Tyrant (Control / Control): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all controls to automatically produce a moderate damage attack to the enemy if they are already under a controlled status effect.
2.Executor (Control / Melee): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all controls to automatically increase in duration depending on the amount of enemies within melee range of the user.
3.Overseer (Control / Debuff): Inherent Modification: Gains the ability for all controls to automatically produce a moderate damage attack to the enemy if they are under an effect of the user’s secondary abilities (stackable).

As a note to some of the decisions, there is a "doubled up" category for each class. I simply did this under the assumption that some major power pools (ie Fighting, Fitness) should be inherent and therefore offensive solo capabilities would still be viable even for a Bulwark (the extremely low damaging but safe tank)... At the same time some sets would be tweaked depending on the class (Ranged/Melee is listed for Artillery and Ranged/Ranged islisted for Cannon, however the secondaries would include some grabbag abilities found in the original manipulation sets instead of something like buildup)...

kitsune9tails
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My own experience as a

My own experience as a Champions and an M&M tabletop GM tells me that too much flexibility breeds as much similarity as too little.

We look (years) forward to your playtesting helping us figure out the proper balance.

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Definitely looking forward...

Definitely looking forward...,

- ...to Bastions (Defense/Assault), Vindicators (Support/Assault) and Gunners (Ranged/Defense). Bastions because I'd like a Tank with some range ability at the beginning, not the end; Vindicators because I like 'Offenders'; and Gunners because after seven or so years of playing a Blaster (<- i.e. - masochist)...yes, Defense - FINALLY!!!

- On a side note: I've noticed there's no Primary for Assault...and though that doesn't sound like a bad idea as if you're not focused on either Melee or Ranged, you're not really 'focused' on being 'Offensive', reserving said capacity as 'Secondary' for versatility's sake. Of course, for those who want mad Range -AND- Melee Offense...

- ...there's always a Blaster (Hunter)... ^_^

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kitsune9tails wrote:
kitsune9tails wrote:

My own experience as a Champions and an M&M tabletop GM tells me that too much flexibility breeds as much similarity as too little.
We look (years) forward to your playtesting helping us figure out the proper balance.

I never played Champions pnp, but I kinda noticed this in CO.
It may be as much related to the mechanics of the game, I don't know, but I am nowhere near the altaholic there that I was in CoH. The alts that I DO have are mainly cosmetically different. I end up choosing roughly the same assortment of single-target & aoe attacks, an appropriately themed block and travel power(s), a self buff & self heal.
My tactics don't change a whole lot from one to the next.
While there was some overlapping of playstyle from one controller to the next or one blaster to the next. I found that trying to work out different tactics for various combinations gave missions much more replayability.
I also loved when I'd roll an uncommon combination and make it work. It really added to my sense of uniqueness in the game.

"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."

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kitsune9tails wrote:
kitsune9tails wrote:

My own experience as a Champions and an M&M tabletop GM tells me that too much flexibility breeds as much similarity as too little.
We look (years) forward to your playtesting helping us figure out the proper balance.

I agree which is why you can't just yell 'FREEFORM!' and let everyone line up to the trough. However as a new MMO player whenever I asked why a ranged character couldn't have Status protection everyone either hollered 'Tankmage!' or laughed at the notion. Along came VEATs on redside and the fears were disproved. I'm not saying that every character should be the same, quite the contrary, but I think that the idea of not being able to give 1-2 melee attacks to a ranged toon, 1-2 ranged attacks to a melee toon or status protection to a non-melee toon is a bit archaic.

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

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kitsune9tails wrote:
kitsune9tails wrote:

My own experience as a Champions and an M&M tabletop GM tells me that too much flexibility breeds as much similarity as too little.
We look (years) forward to your playtesting helping us figure out the proper balance.

I tend to agree with the fact that the Tabletop itself allows for certain synergy that power-gamers can use to be much stronger than their level in Champions PnP and Mutants and Masterminds PnP. But the role of the GM is to go beyond the rules and intangibles that happen in a Tabletop Campaign.

As a MMORPG .. you as the devs have the responsibility of Gawds AND Game-Master. Not only must you create the rules of the world, you have to set some hard individual limits on how that system works. I think for a MMORPG this is actually a SIMPLER task than writing a tabletop. In tabletop you want the limits to be as expandable as the players may need.. giving them the chance to invent powers and synergies that you as the creators may never have thought of.. in a video game however you give only the options that benefit your end result. I do want these options to be many and varied, but that does NOT mean they have to be "open to interpretation".

All of the math can be fine-tuned later, but the effectiveness of any combat oriented game needs to be balanced against itself and keep its baselines intact. There's no reason this can't exist in a freeform system. I was just working on a Mutants and Masterminds like combat system for virtual gaming with a producer and will post more on what type of system I'd like to see sometime this week. System balancing is all about baselines and STICKING TO THEM.

P.S.
For a superhero game I think letting players extend those baselines is what makes them feel like Titans.. I completely support the idea of "ultimate powers" and the like but they should be rare to keep the game balanced and strategic.

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The proposed classification

The proposed classification/specification system will offer plenty of flexibility once it is expanded to all options.

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Indeed. Also I think also the

Indeed. Also I think also the lack of content in CO may have also stunted alts.

But I found myself making and creating more alts in CO than in COH with each with a different feel and playstyle. Even the few that have the same base powers as the other usually their defense, offensive capabilities, hp, energy bar/usage, differs on top of the cosmetic stuff which tend to lead me with even the same powers to play a totally different way than I did with the toon that had same powers.

Although my power choices mostly depending on the concept of the toon being created and thus some are single target heavy while another may be AOE heavy, while another may be mixture of both, some range some melee, some a bit of both, some have self buff some have self heal some have neither,, some have themed blocks (about only about 20% of them actually, most don't due to the nature of their background story and how they got those powers.

The big thing I like about the freeform system overall, the system, the way it applied may be total different story, is that I can choose a much greater variety of combinations and thus more variety of tactics and play feel. Now of course, sometimes the temptation to fall into one comfortable playstyle, one or two types of powers , and one or two build methods that they found work the best, seemingly everyone they know is doing it, or just their natural playstyle and try and build toons based off of that and thus end up running out of choices early or being overwhelmed by the amount of choices. Kind of like auto packages. You check this block, you get a certain set of things, but cant get items from the next block set, but if you abandon first choice but click second box, you can also get the heated cup holders but cant get the items from the first package. You're in and out with mostly the items you want. Compared to them laying this long list of options you can choose individually from. For some, this would be customization and personalization heaven to others, it's too cumbersome. Some dealers then offer only choices in package style, some only offer item by item choices, while others do both where you can choose item by time or simply choose the set packages.

Basically what is one too much thus too similar is another's just right while one's less choice but less similar is another's too restricted and stunts creativity.

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TheMadGent wrote:
TheMadGent wrote:

PURE CONJECTURE I'm not sure if pets will make it in to the control sets. They're kind of a strange relic from before Masterminds. PURE CONJECTURE

Buffing/healing would seem to fit within the manipulation tag though.

Control is thought-intensive on the part of players. You need to do so intelligently w.r.t. what it does and whether another player is attacking it or not. For (player pet) AI, that could be tough. Consider how to use immob (can still fight) vs. hold (complete freeze), and both of those w.r.t. whether attacking the affected monster frees it or not. More for minion vs. lieutenant vs. boss, is monster being attacked by another team player or just running around, what level is it so it's not wasted, etc.

For NPC AI, it's easy -- they get top notch control to just freeze up everybody just to be a pita, lol. For pets it would need more subtle AI because of the inherent 3rd rate nature of pet powers.

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Control will have pets, but

Control will have pets, but not at launch.

Realize, our initial level cap is 30, which means the Tier 9's will not be in place.

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Woo and hoo!!

Woo and hoo!!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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I trust control power sets

I trust control power sets will be able to do decent damage prior to obtaining their pets. I did not play a controller for the longest time because I had to force myself to grind away to level 32. Then I got my pets and suddenly (finally) I was playing a superhero.

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