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You could make legacy members allies or rivals rather than family if you wanted. Especially since you can have characters of different species.
But they all have the same last name (if you choose to display a surname). That part I thought was lame. You couldn’t have a different one on any of your characters.
If you had actually reviewed this thread you would have seen I've already thought about this topic and responded several times (in the "negative" I might add) to the eariler SWTOR postings about the overall legacy concept. In this case I was directly responding only to Atama specifically about a family relationship only system so no I wasn't "responding from the hip" - stop being condensingly dismissive like this. I frankly consider any kind of built in legacy/family/allies/rivals system in a MMO (which would naturally favor an "account-centered" player avatar mindset) to be antithetical to the "character-center" system a game like this should be and is based on.
Sure family/legacy relationships are common in comic books and I'm aware these topics have been covered in other threads. But as I implied I would consider a "built-in" system for these kinds of things to be at the very least a huge waste of time/resources for CoT at least until long after launch, especially when RP would suffice for all this in the near-term. Even when/if the Devs have the time to bother with this I don't think it fits with the character-based nature of a true RPG.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I would like to be able to share Storage and other accumulated stuff across my account, so a new character wouldn't have to 'farm' stuff that an older character has gathered already. That and certain 'specials' was why I created the 'Valkyr' legacy in SWTOR.
Be Well
Firehart
That should be available via an in-game "email" system. Even CoH had that ability back in the day - I see no reason CoT can't have it. Other games have a form of account storage too (not to mention we will probably have supergroup storage).
legacy system....All of my characters are in the same legacy ie:family tree. if I unlock a buff or achievment it unlocks for my whole family. speeders etc in collections are unlocked for all. there are unlock for different level of legacy. I can unlock speeder piloting 1 at level 10 if my legacy level is over ten.
Yeah, account storage is probably a given, even if it is a subscription and/or cash shop option. But I think the reason the SWTOR legacy system was brought up in the first place was as a way to explain or rationalize why your characters would actually have the same access.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Yeah I suspected it was something like that even before I asked the "semi-rhetorical question" and several other people answered but thanks for adding to the conversation. As I've answered earlier I tend to completely [b]despise[/b] systems like this because it makes what should be a simple collection of independent characters into a single multi-headed avatar of the player. Just because my MMO account might be able to maintain multiple characters doesn't mean they are (or should be) automatically "linked at the hip" to be able to share anything.
The classic example I always use are my characters from various D&D campaigns: Just because I have a fighter make it to some X level in one game doesn't mean my magic user automatically gets to share in the fighter's success - they are unique characters. Likewise just because you have multiple characters under the same account in a MMO doesn't automatically mean you should get to "co-mingle" them together in terms of rewards or resources.
If you want to "pretend" all your characters in a MMO are related as a family or are "allies" or whatever you can easily enough RP that. The game doesn't need to give you "free crap" or linked benefits just because they all happen to be coincidentally related to the same human player.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
We were already going to allow players to invite their own characters to another one of their characters’ Super Team, which also grants access to the base.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
To be clear I have no problem at all with a player creating a Superteam and then having all of his/her other characters join that same Superteam. In that case each character is still a unique individual and you can RP they are all part of the same "family" or whatever after that.
Again the main issue I have is when a player's characters become "co-mingled" to the point where they start sharing the same pool of money or they can share skills and/or earn account based awards by sharing each other's effort together. At that point they cease to be individual characters and become more like different pseudo-avatar builds of the single "player". Players don't get to treat their collection of characters as a single "combined multi-headed creature" when they play table-top games; why should they get to do that when they play a MMO? The only thing the characters of an MMO account should have "in common" with each other is that they are all owned by the same human player, period.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
legacy came out in the first year. I have been max legacy so long its hard to remember.
their conquest system also complicates things. some objectives are limited to once per legacy, but i am in 3 different guilds. If I want a particular guild to get that reward, I cant play characters in the other 2 guilds. messy
To be fair I don't out-right hate the general idea of having a legacy system in a MMO. I'm just mostly questioning the need for something like that specifically in CoT. Even if CoT were to eventually adopt something even remotely like a legacy system it's not likely going to be terribly similar to SWTOR's system or any other game's for that matter.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
YES!! Another Super Team tidbit! Thank you Tannim222!
For some reason that didn't quite seem like "new news" to me. In other words I think somebody already "leaked" that bit of info to us. Regardless it was something that people used to always grumble about in CoH so it's good to see it finally addressed in CoT. :)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I find the fun part of TOR's Legacy system, is in giving my characters two backgrounds.
There's the RP with guild background (usually something that's close to the game's storyline with alterations as to not be THAT character, the characters are all basically THAT character otherwise) and an in game background of how they're all related and such, while all happening at the same time.
The main of the 8 has varied between my Consular and my Inquisitor (my fave story lines) in that regard with the idea of how they're related/know each other changing, mostly because I reroll them every now and again for various reasons.
I find it a fun little mini game for when I'm logged in, but don't want to really do much :p
On that note, since Heroes and Villains are 1) less clearly defined and 2) less segregated, will you be able to invite "villains" to a superhero group or vice versa?
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I think you basically answered your own question here: Since CoT characters will not be segregated by "redside" or "blueside" it would seem by default any character could join any Superteam.
But your question does raise an interesting side-question. Clearly anyone with invite authority for a Superteam could choose exactly who he/she would want to invite for any reason. But since we know the alignment system will be a 3-axis affair I wonder if there will be a way the overall Superteam leader can establish hardwired thresholds for the types of characters they want in their team. For example lets say a Superteam leader wants to generally make a "heroic" group so could he/she input a threshold such that only people who have a high enough rating on the law/chaos alignment axis can be invited? This would let people have Superteams based on any of the qualities the alignment axes provided.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Perhaps one can only be invited in if they mesh up with an alignment guideline in the guild options and are kicked out if they go outside of it?
That would be a no. Players can not see another player’s alignment, cannot set up a system in the Super Team settings that would inadvertently reveal alignments either.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Thanks for the timely info. So that means a Superteam can essentially invite anyone for any reason and they're free to RP being "Heroes", "Villains" or anything they want as a group.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
In GW2 all of my characters are in the same two Guilds. It's useful, being in two Guilds at the same time, with a simple toggle to set which one is prime at any time. Still, it's useful to not need to be invited to each one.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I honestly can't recall ATM if the CoT Rednames have told us if our characters here will be allowed to belong to multiple Superteams or not. Also I'm not sure if they've mentioned if there will be CoT equivalents to Coalitions. Even if they did mention these things I probably decided not to worry about it since so much could change before launch regardless.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Right now it is 1 Suoer Team per character. There are Leagues which Super Teams can form together. We have not set an upper limit on the number of Super Teams that can form a League not a limit on the number of Leagues they can be a part of. We may set those numbers at some point, they just don’t exist at this moment.
With the proper permission settings, one character can essentially utilize their Leagues’ base access and base resources, resulting in something of a “quasi-form” of belinging to multiple Super Teams.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
So people want their characters to join multiple SGs?
So basically, they all want to be Wolverine clones? :o
Thanks again for the info. There's also the basic question of "How many characters can be in a Superteam?" IIRC CoH ended up allowing 150 characters per supergroup.
Just to input my two cents I'd recommend setting hard limits for all these things (number of characters per Superteam, number of Superteams in a League and number of Leagues a single Superteam can be part of) but make those hard limits be "reasonably ridiculously high" by default. For example I'd consider the number 256 for all three of these values. That should be more than enough for anyone's purposes. If by some miracle enough people want more than that you can always consider raising the limits later. But I seriously think 256 would be more than high enough for all three of those values for the foreseeable future.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I think Beast may have been part of more teams.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Hmmm...maybe...but at the same time?
No clue. I don't follow X-Men all that closely.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
There're times when villains and heroes team up against super threats. E.g., Brotherhood of Mutants* and X-men team up against Apocalypse.
So that could be a function of "leagues".
*wow, I just realized how blatantly allegorical Brotherhood of Mutants is for Malcolm X
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Thanks again Tannim222 for the info on League limits and permissions! All good stuff!
Lothic you are indeed correct that CoH ended with an SG member limit of 150. Increased from the original 75 as they searched for ways to improve SGs despite undocumented code. But my inclination is, in light of information revealed in this thread, to say that a 256 member limit on Super Teams may actually be to low, or at least artificially limiting. In CoH I would have agreed that 256 was more than enough, but in CoT we will be able to invite our own characters. In my view this changes the dynamic by a fair degree. It's hard to say without information about base character slots, but that's my gut feeling.
Now mind you, I'm approaching this as perhaps the most currently ambitious ST/League leader. But that's exactly why I have to talk on this point. In CoH it was a bit of a bother for dedicated SG members to get themselves into "their" SGs. More casual players seldom seemed to care so much about what SG they ended up in (from a SG leader perspective). CoT is removing that barrier and I suspect the results will be STs growing as the CoH devs originally intended.
I'm not positive what a good upper limit is, but 256 feels low to me, but by my own admission I'm at the upper limit from the start.
It's less so when they were originally called the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Good call, Stan...good call...
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I don't know if this has crossed the forum question thread, but is it too late in development to add a random instance? Mob A containing a assault rifle/guns and B super power/weapon. Each instance randomized so you never have the same experience. This would be very enjoyable since I'm a altaholic.
They already have 2 different systems in place for procedural generation of the layout of instanced missions. I also remember them saying that NPC's will be generated in accordance with a recipe (a.k.a somewhat procedural) so it wouldn't surprise me if there are a number of those for their equivalent to CoH's radio/newspaper missions.
While that's true for maps, if you're asking about randomly generated enemies I'm pretty sure we won't see those in regular content -- not with all the work MWM is putting into the lore behind various groups.
I suppose the User-Generated Content feature would be the closest we will get to that.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Our version of newspaper/radio missions are quite differeent. Schemes and Investigstions: You get leads and clues and you piece them together on a “clue board” which essentially “crafts” the mission somewhat mad-lib style. This system isn’t slated for launch.
We don’t have a system that randomized what powers a pawn has. A Rook will be a Rook so to speak. Stuff like that won’t change.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Knowing more stuff will be pouring in post-launch, I don't think anyone will have a problem with this for launch.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Yeah it will be good no matter what. I just want it now lol.
I want it more than Season 4 of Rick and Morty. That's saying something.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
even though a Rook may be a Rook may be a Rook. If the challenge rating calls for this spawn to be a group of strength =10, and there are 5 different Rook classes who have a strength of 10 or less, then any combination of them could be an appropriate mix, perhaps.
So you run the instance one time and you see 2 Slammers and 3 slicers.
The next time you see Knight, a slammer and a slicer.
The next time you run it you see 2 Bishops.
...and so on.
They're all Rooks, but each run will feel different because we face a different power mixup.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Quite right Huckleberry. We can have different ratios of Mooks, Agents and Bosses. And if there are more than one type of each in a Faction we can have that randomized as well.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
That's cool. Sounds like you're making it as flexible as possible while keeping the lore intact.
I think the Schemes & Investigations update will be the one I'll be looking forward to the most. Well, maybe after the update that gives us Hunters. Oh and the one that gives us Commanders. OK, nevermind; I'll be looking forward to all the updates.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Ok, so powers are out but what about the looks of the character itself. Will that be "random" or procedurally generated within very specific parameters, or are we still going to deal with an "army of clones" when it comes to specific classes/types within each faction?
Due to our constraints on resources you won’t see too much variety. Each type of pawn in each rank will have a distinction within the over all faction appearance. You won’t see procedural generation if faction costumes.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
This isn't a surprise or a let down. I imagine this will be possible sometime after launch...1 or 2 years down the road... At least for me this is not high up on the list of important things for the game within that time frame...
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Agreed. Tannim, does the design of the game allow for the sort of future development as Dark Cleric is thinking?
Spurn all ye kindle.
As a technical question it isn’t about feasibility.
It is a question of probability. Will we have the resources (time, man power, etc) to go back and make more variants of faction costumes or will we need to put those resources toward continued development for new factions and player costume pieces? And part of that is determining the ROI.
The short answer then is, technically possible, highly improbable. But who can accurately tell the future?
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Fair enough. I can imagine there are way more significant things to implement before getting round to something like this.
Spurn all ye kindle.
While Tannim222 said that they won't be randomizing the costumes, I think he's selling their efforts short. It will probably take me longer than it's worth to find the reference, but I do recall someone at MWM mentioning the body, sex, and sliders [u]will[/u] be randomized, or if not random, at least varying.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
[img]http://pm1.narvii.com/6496/c4de526b4b9f5b2cd1288b0d1866663a051eda6d_00.jpg[/img]
"I can see the future!" - Random Kanassan
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Ok, one last one. Will NPC's be using the chargen (just with more and/or different pieces/bodies) or en equivalent system to actually render them, or are they completely pre-rendered?
I think a chargen-like system would most likely be best (or at least more space efficient) since you only need to dress them up and then push out the save files, but also for making ones own NPC's for UGC. In terms of standard NPC's I think having a base costume and a list of costume pieces that can be "randomly switched out" would probably have the highest ROI after just static appearance and give a good enough illusion of "procedural generation".
I think a ton of CoX baddies used the same basic skeleton and animations as players. Even if they had some costume pieces that were not useable by players it was clear they were built the same way. It makes sense.
Plus, doing it that way means you can potentially let players access some of those costume parts as quest rewards or achievements etc.
Harder to do this with non humanoid baddies. Kinda needs to be bipedal.
The enemy pawns use the same costume pieces as our player characters. This is on purpose to reduce work in recreating pieces for PCs (we won’t have to).
But you won’t be seeing randomized pieces. We want players to identify an npc by appearance (unless we don’t for...reasons).
The issue the time it takes to make those different. NPC faction costume pieces. Making specific alternative pieces that only go with specific factions and making the system for the procedural generation match those pieces for the specific factions is where we would require a lot of resources.
As I said earlier, do we go back and make alternative costume pieces for existing factions, or new costume pieces for new factions and pieces for just players? What will get us the most ROI for our resources.
We dont’t want stools ending up with Motörhead costume pieces in the game just because they’re both NPC costume pieces.
Yes, players should be balemto make custom npcs in the UGC using costume pieces to mix and match.
We plan on letting players customize NPCs pets as well.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Maybe they used the same basic skeleton and 3D model but I've heard that effectively every NPC was stored as one single solid 3D model and a single texture for it, instead of the layered approach by storing costume selection data that PC's used.
I am hoping that CoT will use a layered approach for NPC's since not only does it make it more cost efficient to add in new NPC's (at least humanoid) by just saving a costume file but you can easily add in randomization (within reason of course) of individual costume pieces so that not everyone of the same "base person" looks identical. Add in that they want to make every piece have both a male and female version then these costume save-file will work for both males and females, only reason to use different ones would be if they want them to look different.
Maybe I expressed myself badly but I wasn't talking about completely random costumes, just that some pieces (more on the accessory level) could be switched out with other pieces from a limited list of approved ones. Maybe it could be a list of accessories that everyone within that faction could use regardless of which role and/or position they have within that faction. Just something so that everyone of the same role and position doesn't look identical (what I call "army of clones").
The biggest advantage is that if you make a new piece for any reason and it end up being fitting for a specific faction you can just chuck onto the appropriate list and it'll automatically be included when spawning new members of said faction. With my very limited knowledge of programming it doesn't appear to be very much work, go over costume data for "list-placeholder entries", check list(s) for number of entries, pick one entry at random (per list) and insert into costume data before spawning new NPC.
But if this is deemed to be too low ROI then I'll just have to live with it.
Yes, we would have to make a specific faction-based lookup sheet for each costume piece by location and then have a back end system that references that specific lookup sheet for that faction and randomized the pieces. And part of the investment is recouped since players can use the same pieces.
It is the time it takes to make those extra pieces for each specific faction vs making new pieces for new factions.
And then there is the time it takes to determine which factions can even use alternative costume pieces. As well as making sure that unique pieces are included in the over all list. Which only complicated the design of the back end system because if you hook it at the faction level you have to designate pawn ranks and not include them certain pawn types that may require unique pieces that aren’t supposed to show up on other ranks.
There are certain factions already where a moon or an agent has a specific piece that will never show up in another mook or agent in that faction. So the loopup tables have to get more complicated the more often that is done to ensure that doesn’t happen.
You see, something that sounds simple ion the surface isn’t necessarily simple to do. You ave to set up and maintain such systems which can slow down production.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
The initial setup is definitely complex, but maintaining it once it’s set up is fairly simple: just adding new entries to the appropriate tables as suitable items are added to the game. An existing example of what you guys are discussing can be found in the leveled lists system in Bethesda games.
I think most people would rather have more content and aren't worried so much about whether baddy # 473 is going to have a different hat.
A decent compromise would simply be making a handful of the most common baddies and letting those get pulled from a pool. I think CoX did that? Every single baddy wouldn't be as unique, but any given group would be a bit more randomized. Perhaps I am misremembering and CoX only randomized what baddies could show up in a group related to the levels and threat ratings of those baddies, but the individual types were always the same?
Having recognizable baddies isn't a bad thing. Players like being able to learn from encounters and being able to tell at a glance what they will be up against.
Yeah I am thinking maybe after release if all is going well and they can generate a real, everybody on a payroll environment then perhaps focus some full time guys on design variety within the factions while another couple other guys are creating new factions for new areas in the next issue release. But not at initial release. First make sure there is enough income to support everything else like the ideas already planned before expanding some of these details. Hopefully all goes well and everything can continuously (within reason) be updated throughout the life of the project.
It is always a nice treat to see updates to older content. Additional lore, costume details and the stuff we want to make better but isn’t critical at the onset. Hard part is make those distinctions.
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
Mainentwnce is primarily compocated when dealing with uniques and having to designate parts and pawns that are not randomized within a faction. We are talking about multiple databases which require regular cross-checking each time a new piece is to be designed.
As I said, we are years away from remotely entertaining the possibility.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
+1 and lol
Spurn all ye kindle.
Agreed. If each faction is distinct and has variety within it I’m happy. I don’t care if mooks that have the same combat sets and power levels have a uniform look. Actually I like being able to distinguish an enemy at a glance.
If the height/weight/gender/build/skin-hair-eye color can be randomized that alone would be cool enough, though I don’t even feel like that’s critical.
From your wording it sounds like we are approaching this from opposite "ends" so to speak. It appears like you are talking about a system where the randomization of all that is available to that faction is the basis for costumes and the static pieces would be exceptions, while I'm talking about a system that has static costumes at the base and the randomizable pieces are the exceptions using lookup tables specific to that costume and "slot". The latter has the advantage that it already accounts for unique pieces since they have to be explicitly marked for randomization, don't want it randomized then don't mark it nor add that piece to a lookup table.
I fully admit that my knowledge (especially programming) is very limited here but the latter one looks, to me, much more efficient while providing enough of a "randomization" to make a difference.
Of course, I never expected this to be part of initial launch.
That’s the problem you can’t have it both ways, Because some pawns in a faction can have the same slot randomnized. Which means multiple datatables for each type of pawn in each faction - which is highly inefficient programming wise, will result in a lot of duplicated work, and a lot of time on the back end for production of pieces to make sure the randomization still looks right each pawn of every single faction that can be randomized. You can’t even make a datatable by pawn rank, but each individual pawn within each rank for multiple factions (many factions have multiple mooks for example, with unique identifiers).
Even if randomized, everything still needs to fit together. That is a lot of work to put 2d and 3d artists to task on designing. Work that for the time, could result in new prices for players and new factions. Without all the back end work being required to be designed and tailored to each pawn to many factions.
And I didn’t imply you suggested for this for launch.
I said we are years away from even remotely considering this possibility. That is a far cry from implying I thought you were suggesting this for launch.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I honestly didn't think much of the family tree either. It just felt like a vestigial body part in terms of the game. Just hanging out there with little or as of yet undetermined functionality. I understand how some RPers would find it helpful but I also recall some RP focused people who played swtor were very happy it was there and felt welcomed to the game because of it. And yes, the tree was optional but the whole of the legacy system (Achiecment and Perks) wasn't.( I may not have been clear about that in my language.)
I don't know if MWM should spend time on something like the tree. I just thought it was an interesting idea that was probably started to whet the appetites of a some of the players creativity and get them involved on the game. In that way, I guess it served at least a nominal function...
I would think a mission creator would be more helpful than a family tree that I could make up with PnP and share on a forum post.
While I will agree the Family Tree isn't the best for group RP (in TOR) I do believe what a game can do to help it's RP community, will help the game succeed.
Blade & Soul sucks for RPers and lost a lot of players because of it.
Never neglect the RPers. Sure, that list includes the massive ERPers, but they bring in business and numbers.
I think it is safe to say that there is a correlation between RP and immersion. And I think it is also safe to say that the more immersive the game is, the longer it keeps players playing. (all other things being equal, of course)
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I don't know about that at all huckleberry, there are a ton of popular long running games even in the mmo genre that have a very low priority on immersing the player in a believable world as much as they do just having a game that is fun to play. The very successful over a long time of course put a high priority on two things that engage people long term: abusing human psychology to milk addictive personality traits to keep players coming back, and the social aspect built into the genre that encourages people to build and maintain communities they want to stay and be a part of. The fun is just the hook that pulls the player in, not what keeps them playing.
The best games do all of these. Roleplaying and immersion, though, is easily the weakest draw among other factors. It can add a lot to those that enjoy it but most people simply don't care about it.
If you're going to disagree with me, then show me where I am wrong. Instead you merely showed [u]other[/u] means that game developers use to hook people. I don't disagree with you because those practices do get people to play longer. But so does immersion. Just look at all the effort Blizzard put into fleshing out the characters in Overwatch.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I'm not saying immersion is a bad thing. I'm saying it isn't the prime reason people play for extended periods.
You also seem to be using the word to mean lore and world building stuff outside the game itself, such as the videos, comics, etc overwatch and tf2 put out. Perhaps not? That is the impression I got from the previous post. Those are great, but immersion is more about being able to create a world encapsulated within the game that lets you suspend disbelief, that the player feels a part of. Basically the easier it is to fully roleplay in it, the more immersive it is. The vast majority of people playing overwatch, for example, couldn't tell you about or even care about the lore blizzard came up with, because the central focus of the game is not the story or world in general. The stages and characters are flashy and well designed but it always feels like you're playing a game of push the cart or capture the flag, because that is exactly what you are doing. The most popular part of the character and world design people really remember from overwatch is the butts.
Honestly CoH was pretty good at being immersive because everyone has thought about being a super hero at some point and the setting is close to real life. It is extremely easy to fit into those shoes. You can have a lot of immersion in a setting that is more difficult to adapt to, it just means the writers and developers have to work much harder to bring it to life and make it relatable and believable.
The game that gave me the best immersion was LotRO. Actually I didn’t care much for it at first when I beta tested it. I rolled a dwarf and the game felt dour, drab, cold, and empty. Because where you start as a dwarf is a harsh place, where animals, people, even vegetation is scarce. It’s all rock and snow outside and rock and darkness inside.
I gave it another chance later and rolled a hobbit. It became another game for me. The Shire felt real and alive. It’s not just how colorful and comfortable it felt, though that helped. But there was so much detail and it was so real. You had your usual combat, sure, but your quests also revolved around helping people deliver mail, or make food, or protect their bees. It felt like a real community where people were actually living their lives. I’ve never experienced anything like that before or since. And while you do have to leave the Shire and go out into the big world to face great evils, you can return back home at any time. It felt like I was protecting a real home.
I don’t expect CoT to be able to match that, because no other game ever has. But if you want immersion, that’s the kind of experience you should try to emulate. I don’t play LotRO anymore but I still think about it with nostalgia.
Blizzard took the time to flesh out the characters of Overwatch which gets completely ignored by the gameplay.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Right, that was kind of my point. The gameplay isn't "immersive" and that lore has basically no impact on it. It is a cool thing for fans to go check out. Getting into the game doesn't make you feel like you've been transported to another world and you can suspend your disbelief and really become part of it. If tomorrow blizzard came out with a video or comic that said all the characters were secretly time travelling dinosaurs on a mission from the pope it would have zero impact on the game.
Blizzard did cool stuff with OW but it would be strange to call the game immersive. It doesn't draw you in and make you feel like you are naturally a part of it. That is ok, it doesn't need to, it probably would distract from the game if that was more of a priority.
In comparison, take a game like Skyrim. It is easy to joke about the quality of writing or shallowness of the world in general, fine, but it is hard to argue that the focus of the game is to draw you in and make you feel like a part of it. That is definitely a focus. The suspension of disbelief part might be hard when you see crazy bethesda physics bugs and you see the cracks in the general craftsmanship and design flaws, granted. But that is the general goal of the game. To immerse you.
They have mods for a lot of that.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
OK question for the great and powerful.
[u]At Launch[/u]....will I be able to fire a machine gun burst (complete with sound effects) from a six shooter or even a pointed finger?
I ask because I have some great concepts, one of which is the greatest, the rootin tootinist cowboy this side of the Pecos river.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
I should remake Dakota Sue, as well... ^_^
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
I can't hear the voice this line is delivered in so I'm going to go ahead and believe this is a beautifully layered bit of sarcasm with multiple meanings, one of which being that you could mod away the immersion entirely, because that makes me smile.
Macho man Randy Savage dragons. That's pretty immersion breaking.
OH YEEAH!
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Don’t forget Thomas the Tank Engine!
There are also a lot of mods to deepen the immersiveness, like Immersive Citizens: AI Overhaul
It seems like the first mods released for Elder Scrolls games include one or more mods to make characters nude, including transparent armor or armor that looks like lingerie.
Immersion.
Even before the unofficial patches?
Pretty much the same time. Oblivion was released March 20, 2006. Here’s an article from two weeks after that discussing the topless female mod.
https://www.engadget.com/2006/04/06/the-ladies-of-oblivion-drop-their-tops/
Use the internet to view tiddies? Hell Naw. Imma make and program a thing so I can see fake tiddies in a game!
*Sigh* Freekin' nerds, man.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
You *really* don’t want to know just what kinds of mods have been put out on the site where most of the modders who make animations and such hang out...
Though to be honest, a small select handful of the mods on that site are actually worth adding to the game.
I wouldn't be surprised at any mod.
I mod my Skyrim, mostly with quality of life mods. A mod that lets me smelt weapons into metal ingots, a magic balance mod, one that changes racial bonuses from flat numbers to increased XP for those things... And I think that's about it.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
the greatest skyrim mod of all...WE NEED THIS HERE!
[youtube]A4rBkV-vRpY[/youtube]
[youtube]P3Px89hFyss[/youtube]
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
I dunno, I mean there's a mod that gets you a shout that causes flaming wheels of cheese to fall from the sky, exploding when they hit the ground.
CHEESE! FOR EVERYONE!
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Then you haven't seen some of the mods for Fallout 4, a few goes way beyond just making it look sexy and introduces new animations and such.
Any mod by trainwiz is the best mod.
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