Character "Races" in CoT?

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TTheDDoctor
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Character "Races" in CoT?

Hello, everyone! Have you noticed how, in a lot of video games, you have the option of selecting different races for your characters in addition to the classes/skills they use? Races are often used to determine the inherent strengths and weaknesses of your character, in addition to their physical appearance and maybe also a few special abilities. Understandably, City of Titans has no intention on making aesthetics couple with stats and abilities, so demanding that "races" in CoT have exclusive designs isn't what I'm suggesting. Likewise, we already have tertiary powers that can essentially serve the same purpose as minor racial abilities. What I propose, however, is the implementation of balanced stat tweaks for characters whose backgrounds make them something other than human. Allow me to explain...

In CoX, everyone had the same stats outside of their archetypes and powers' buffs. If you had no special buffs, you would take as much damage from a psionic attack as you would an electrical attack. You could be poisoned, set on fire, knocked out, and so forth. It didn't matter if your character was supposed to be a robot- if you were a Mastermind with Robotics and Force Field powersets, your character would take psionic damage the same as every other "human" in CoX, even though machines are supposed to be inherently resistant to psionics. (at the expense of being weak to electricity/energy damage IIRC) Naturally, I was very excited when I got to play as a Kheldian in CoX, as I had unique characteristics from other characters at the cost of being weak to quantum weaponry. There was a clear distinction, no matter how you played, that made me feel like I truly was different from all the other players in a special way. I greatly enjoyed that layer of depth added to my character, and I think a lot of other people would appreciate having something that emphasizes that they are not your normal flesh-and-blood superhero.

What I propose is that there be a simple framework set up to tweak a character's stats, according to their "race." For every buff given to a race, a debuff of some kind is implemented to even that out. If you have a resistance to exotic damage, then you might be vulnerable to raw physical damage instead. If you are naturally more accurate with your attacks, then you will do less damage because your race is built for finesse. If you move faster than normal and have a bonus to dodge, then you may have less HP and deal less damage to emphasize your role as a speedster. Players may also be able to select more than one race, which would work quite well for "hybrid" characters who don't fit into any one category. To mitigate min-maxing, it may be possible to halve the benefits and detriments afforded to hybrids of two races, third them for hybrids of three, quarter them for hybrids of four races, and so on; in essence, by not being fully one race or the other, the hybrid's racial characteristics would not stand out as much. Below is a list of possible races that could be implemented into City of Titans...

Humanoid: Basically your standard character race. Humans and humanoids do not have any stat changes; racial hybrids will find that the defining characteristics of the other race will simply not be as pronounced, which may be useful in preventing characters from having too glaring of a weakness while still having a useful buff.

Machine: Mechanical beings that are made of nonliving components instead of flesh and blood. Machines have a heightened resistance to exotic damage and an extreme resistance to biological (eg. poison) damage, but suffer from being more vulnerable to thermal and energy damage while also having a sharply lowered HP regeneration.

Supernatural: Entities that are not from the material world. Supernatural beings have a high resistance to physical damage, but are also highly vulnerable to exotic damage.

Undead: Individuals who have died and, through some supernatural process, come back to life. Undead share a machine's incredible resistance to biological damage, in addition to having heightened resistance to certain controls like fear, but are highly vulnerable to exotic damage and have a sharply lowered HP regeneration.

Regenerator: Hardy individuals who can recover from grievous injuries unnaturally fast. Regenerators have a very high bonus to HP regeneration, but just like how rapidly-dividing cells are vulnerable to radiation and chemotherapy, regenerators are highly vulnerable to energy damage, in addition to being more vulnerable to biological/chemical damage.

Feral: Wild individuals who are more animalistic in nature. Ferals have a moderate bonus to movement speed and a slight bonus to attack speed, but have a slight vulnerability to exotic damage and a moderate vulnerability to controls such as fear, confusion, and daze.

Brainiac: The inverse of a feral, a brainiac is a super-intelligent individual whose intellect plays a larger role in their fighting style than brute force. Brainiacs have a moderate resistance to certain controls such as fear and confusion, a slight resistance to all other controls, and a slight resistance to exotic damage, but their frailty compared to other supers gives them slight penalties to attack damage, physical damage resistance, and stamina regeneration.

Please let me know what you think of this concept, and feel free to suggest any other character "races" you think should be included in the game! Thanks!

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the character creator and

the character creator and powers make character races moot. its an RP thing, not a game thing.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

the character creator and powers make character races moot. its an RP thing, not a game thing.

Well, powers certainly do go a long way towards defining how a character functions. Still though, some players would rather not reserve certain powers/powersets for emphasizing their character's race. Take the example I gave: "It didn't matter if your character was supposed to be a robot- if you were a Mastermind with Robotics and Force Field powersets, your character would take psionic damage the same as every other "human" in CoX, even though machines are supposed to be inherently resistant to psionics."

Now, how might a Master in CoT- who is supposed to be a robot- going to function like a robot if he's using his powers for supporting his minions? Do you think tertiary powers might be able to cover it, or would it be too much of a problem if people wanted to use tertiaries for other purposes than defining their character's "race?"

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Masteries also let you add in

Masteries also let you add in unique advantages to fit your play style.

I think what you're wanting is a trade-off system on top of that, though, like some of the background traits in the older Fallout games.

An alternative would be some more exotic masteries added later that have trade-offs instead of straight boosts. This would be the easiest thing for the devs to do. So... a generic mastery that applies to any discipline called "robotic" that does something like you describe. You could only have one trait mastery, and two regular ones, or three regular ones and no traits, your choice.

There's a bunch of stuff I'd want to see before that, though.

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BiotopeZ wrote:
BiotopeZ wrote:

Masteries also let you add in unique advantages to fit your play style.
I think what you're wanting is a trade-off system on top of that, though, like some of the background traits in the older Fallout games.
An alternative would be some more exotic masteries added later that have trade-offs instead of straight boosts. This would be the easiest thing for the devs to do. So... a generic mastery that applies to any discipline called "robotic" that does something like you describe. You could only have one trait mastery, and two regular ones, or three regular ones and no traits, your choice.
There's a bunch of stuff I'd want to see before that, though.

Well, that definitely seems like an interesting idea. I agree with your priorities, though- I don't think that character "race" should be any big priority, especially since we already have plenty of levels of depth to toy with for the time being. Maybe in a later update after taking care of some major additions, then we can see about expanding upon masteries... ^_^

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Well, looking around, all I

Well, looking around, all I see is Humans. Humans may have developed some visible variations, due to environment (or possibly alien modification), but I see no evidence of speciation, so there's no such thing as 'Races'. I suppose one might speak of 'Breeds', like dogs, cats, and chickens have, largely as a result of humans deliberately manipulating them. (I swear, Donald Trump has secret plans to make us all just like him!)

So, No, I don't think 'Races' are appropriate. They're just a cultural artifact, trying to separate the US from the THEM, and have no basis in reality.

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Well, looking around, all I see is Humans. Humans may have developed some visible variations, due to environment (or possibly alien modification), but I see no evidence of speciation, so there's no such thing as 'Races'. I suppose one might speak of 'Breeds', like dogs, cats, and chickens have, largely as a result of humans deliberately manipulating them. (I swear, Donald Trump has secret plans to make us all just like him!)
So, No, I don't think 'Races' are appropriate. They're just a cultural artifact, trying to separate the US from the THEM, and have no basis in reality.
Be Well!
Fireheart

Heheh, nice one... But I'm not talking about just the human race- I'm talking about the machines, the ghosts, the vampires, the zombies, the Wolverines, yadda-yadda. The people who function differently from your standard human being. :p

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My plan, for my aliens, extra

My plan, for my aliens, extra-dimensional beings, gynoids, dead people, etc, is to:

  1. Make their costumes.
  2. Determine just how they differ from "normal" humans in game terms.
  3. Figure out what powers, masteries, etc. I need to use to give them those differences.
  4. Give them those powers, masteries, etc. as they level up.

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Having a form of augment

Having a form of augment/enhancements that alter your character in such a way would fit a whole lot better than any sort of racial distinction.

There will be augments that affect your whole powerset so it's not unreasonable to suggest getting one that add something to a character for a cost. Obviously you wouldn't call them racial augments or anything but they'd do more or less what's suggested here without tacking on an additional system.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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The problem you get with this

The problem you get with this "Race" idea is the same problem you get with trying to have "Origins" in a game like this - there will never be enough distinct types supported by the game for everyone to be satisified. Even if you came up with 50 distinct "races" you'd get a player who who would bitch-n-moan about why the game didn't include a super-special 51st type this player in question really wanted to play. Also this "Race" idea really boils down to another attempt to provide hardwired advantages/disadvantages and there have been other threads out there debating the merits of such as system for CoT (most of which were against the idea in general).

No, just like Origins it would be much easier for this game to simply allow for as many power and costume options as possible and let players "roleplay" whatever races/origins they want without the game pigeonholing them into categories that don't quite fit their character concepts. One of the few regrets the CoH Devs talked about with CoH was their initial attempts to hardwire Origin concepts into their game and they spent most of the following 8.5 years of the game trying to pull all that stuff back OUT of the game. I really don't want the Devs of CoT to repeat those same mistakes again in this game.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

The problem you get with this "Race" idea is the same problem you get with trying to have "Origins" in a game like this - there will never be enough distinct types supported by the game for everyone to be satisified. Even if you came up with 50 distinct "races" you'd get a player who who would bitch-n-moan about why the game didn't include a super-special 51st type this player in question really wanted to play.
No, just like Origins it would be much easier for this game to simply be allow for as many power and costume options as possible and let players "roleplay" whatever races/origins they want without the game pigeonholing them into categories that don't quite fit their character concepts. One of the few regrets the CoH Devs talked about with CoH was their initial attempts to hardwire Origin concepts into their game and they spent most of the following 8.5 years of the game trying to pull all that stuff back OUT of the game. I really don't want the Devs of CoT to repeat those same mistakes again in this game.

Yeah it was a hell of a time trying to figure out your origin sometimes...

Child of a mutant and a science hero, child has powers... Natural?

A gamma bomb test awakened a character's latent mutant gene... Science? Mutant?

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Lothic
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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Yeah it was a hell of a time trying to figure out your origin sometimes...
Child of a mutant and a science hero, child has powers... Natural?
A gamma bomb test awakened a character's latent mutant gene... Science? Mutant?

With only the five monolithic Origins of CoH I'd say at least 90% of my characters never cleanly fit into any single category and I was always having to provide "mental compromises" for why I chose any one Origin over the other. It was basically far more annoying than it was worth.

The idea of "races" can make sense in a fantasy game where you have clearly distinct classes of characters (i.e. elves, dwarfs, etc.). But in a superhero game where pretty much ANY type of critter is possible it's simply -impossible- for the game to quantify all of that so it literally shouldn't even try.

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That's why I think the best

That's why I think the best solution (if any) is to have a character augment slot. Then you just get a small bonus or a larger bonus with a negative. There by doing everything the "races" idea does without distinctions.

+Physical defense, -Energy defense
+HP by a small amount
+Tiny bit of Regen

Ect, ect...

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"This is My Character! There

"This is My Character! There may be many others like it, but this one Special because it's Mine!"

No need to create any other forms of 'specialness'.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

That's why I think the best solution (if any) is to have a character augment slot. Then you just get a small bonus or a larger bonus with a negative. There by doing everything the "races" idea does without distinctions.
+Physical defense, -Energy defense
+HP by a small amount
+Tiny bit of Regen
Ect, ect...

Even a system where players could dynamically choose an specific "advantage/disadvantage" augment to plug into their character would likely devolve into figuring out which ones provided the most "min/max" advantage for their given builds. Instead of this being a way to "diversify" your characters it would simply become a requirement for character build X to always use augment Y or be considered "dumb" for not doing that.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I'm liking some of the

I'm liking some of the feedback and alternatives being provided thus far, guys! These are all fair suggestions on how to handle characters with unique backgrounds.

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While I never had a problem

While I never had a problem with picking an Origin, as I always thought it was easy enough to pick the one that fit the character the best whether by background or powers.

Something, that may help is Enhancement Set Bonuses if they do that (not at start but later, if I recall). Like, how in CoH, you could grab set bonuses that increased Psi Resist.

However, in CoT, I don't think they'll even have Psi Damage. It's Physical, Exotic and Energy, I believe.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Project_Hero wrote:
That's why I think the best solution (if any) is to have a character augment slot. Then you just get a small bonus or a larger bonus with a negative. There by doing everything the "races" idea does without distinctions.
+Physical defense, -Energy defense
+HP by a small amount
+Tiny bit of Regen
Ect, ect...
Even a system where players could dynamically choose an specific "advantage/disadvantage" augment to plug into their character would likely devolve into figuring out which ones provided the most "min/max" advantage for their given builds. Instead of this being a way to "diversify" your characters it would simply become a requirement for character build X to always use augment Y or be considered "dumb" for not doing that.

That'll be the case anyway with or without it. "Oh you're not using x tertiary with y primary?" Min/maxers happen in every game, not having something because it could be abused by min/maxers would leave a game with 0 options.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

While I never had a problem with picking an Origin, as I always thought it was easy enough to pick the one that fit the character the best whether by background or powers.

Oh I never had a problem physically pushing a button to select an Origin for a character. It's just that with only five categories to pick from too many of my characters easily straddled multiple Origins definitions. It was like if I could have selected percentages of each Origin (like a DNA test result) it might have made it better. Basically almost none of my characters were 100% Magic or 100% Tech or whatever. It wasn't like I was even trying to make "Multi-Origin" characters on purpose - it just happened. *shrugs*

Brand X wrote:

However, in CoT, I don't think they'll even have Psi Damage. It's Physical, Exotic and Energy, I believe.

Well I'd guess you need a biological brain to cause/take "psi" damage. Makes it hard to explain how you could hurt machine-based intelligence. I imagine they settled on Physical (matter-based), Energy and Exotic because those are the most generically universal types, with "Exotic" standing in for practically anything that doesn't fit in with the other two.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
That's why I think the best solution (if any) is to have a character augment slot. Then you just get a small bonus or a larger bonus with a negative. There by doing everything the "races" idea does without distinctions.
+Physical defense, -Energy defense
+HP by a small amount
+Tiny bit of Regen
Ect, ect...
Even a system where players could dynamically choose an specific "advantage/disadvantage" augment to plug into their character would likely devolve into figuring out which ones provided the most "min/max" advantage for their given builds. Instead of this being a way to "diversify" your characters it would simply become a requirement for character build X to always use augment Y or be considered "dumb" for not doing that.
That'll be the case anyway with or without it. "Oh you're not using x tertiary with y primary?" Min/maxers happen in every game, not having something because it could be abused by min/maxers would leave a game with 0 options.

Yes, you are correct that min/maxing happens in every game. But when you introduce a proposed feature like these "advantage/disadvantage" augments the Devs have to decide how many options they'll offer to make it work as intended.

If the Devs make them "wonderfully diverse" enough with dozens of equally useful options then maybe people won't feel like there's only one "correct" answer for their use and everything will be fine. But if the Devs only provide 6 or 8 generic +5%/-5% type options then it'll quickly devolve into "the only reasonable option is X" and the system will effectively be pointless. I would simply challenge the Devs that if they do something like this they should offer as many options as possible (I would say at least 20+) to keep the system from becoming a min/max dead end.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
While I never had a problem with picking an Origin, as I always thought it was easy enough to pick the one that fit the character the best whether by background or powers.
Oh I never had a problem physically pushing a button to select an Origin for a character. It's just that with only five categories to pick from too many of my characters easily straddled multiple Origins definitions. It was like if I could have selected percentages of each Origin (like a DNA test result) it might have made it better. Basically almost none of my characters were 100% Magic or 100% Tech or whatever. It wasn't like I was even trying to make "Multi-Origin" characters on purpose - it just happened. *shrugs*
Brand X wrote:
However, in CoT, I don't think they'll even have Psi Damage. It's Physical, Exotic and Energy, I believe.
Well I'd guess you need a biological brain to cause/take "psi" damage. Makes it hard to explain how you could hurt machine-based intelligence. I imagine they settled on Physical (matter-based), Energy and Exotic because those are the most generically universal types, with "Exotic" standing in for practically anything that doesn't fit in with the other two.

Like I said, not a matter of it being easy to push a button, easy enough to realize Iron Man is tech, not natural, just because he's a genius :p Domino is a mutant, even if she does use guns.

Picking an origin was easy even when people could see multiple origin types in use. It was never overly complicated.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Brand X wrote:
While I never had a problem with picking an Origin, as I always thought it was easy enough to pick the one that fit the character the best whether by background or powers.
Oh I never had a problem physically pushing a button to select an Origin for a character. It's just that with only five categories to pick from too many of my characters easily straddled multiple Origins definitions. It was like if I could have selected percentages of each Origin (like a DNA test result) it might have made it better. Basically almost none of my characters were 100% Magic or 100% Tech or whatever. It wasn't like I was even trying to make "Multi-Origin" characters on purpose - it just happened. *shrugs*
Brand X wrote:
However, in CoT, I don't think they'll even have Psi Damage. It's Physical, Exotic and Energy, I believe.
Well I'd guess you need a biological brain to cause/take "psi" damage. Makes it hard to explain how you could hurt machine-based intelligence. I imagine they settled on Physical (matter-based), Energy and Exotic because those are the most generically universal types, with "Exotic" standing in for practically anything that doesn't fit in with the other two.
Like I said, not a matter of it being easy to push a button, easy enough to realize Iron Man is tech, not natural, just because he's a genius :p Domino is a mutant, even if she does use guns.
Picking an origin was easy even when people could see multiple origin types in use. It was never overly complicated.

Hm, this does actually raise an interesting point... If we did wind up with anything like character "races" or "origins" in CoT, focusing on making them general enough to touch on a large variety of different character types would make things much less complicated. We may not even need 20+ different options like Lothic mentioned earlier, if done right... Hmhmm, food for thought.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Oh I never had a problem physically pushing a button to select an Origin for a character. It's just that with only five categories to pick from too many of my characters easily straddled multiple Origins definitions. It was like if I could have selected percentages of each Origin (like a DNA test result) it might have made it better. Basically almost none of my characters were 100% Magic or 100% Tech or whatever. It wasn't like I was even trying to make "Multi-Origin" characters on purpose - it just happened. *shrugs*

Like I said, not a matter of it being easy to push a button, easy enough to realize Iron Man is tech, not natural, just because he's a genius :p Domino is a mutant, even if she does use guns.

Picking an origin was easy even when people could see multiple origin types in use. It was never overly complicated.

It was "complicated" when a character could have very easily been of -more- than one Origin. Take a half-human, half-demon who's powers are magic-based. Is that a "Magic" Origin character because of the magic use or is he/she a Mutant because they aren't a pure-blood or maybe he/she's a Natural because it's "natural" for any demon-blooded to use magic. I contend practically no character is ever just 100% one thing, especially when you only have 5 categories to choose from.

Even with your Iron Man example you had to make the compromised CHOICE to call him a Tech character despite your own concession he could have been at least part Natural, just because he's a genius. You had to compromise to call Domino a Mutant even though she uses guns. With the same thinking would you call Batman 100% Tech, 100% Natural or is he arguably a bit of both or more?

Frankly I would say that even in what you might consider the "easiest" pick for Origin classification it's probably only "easy" for you because the character in question might be 95% type X, but they are never 100%. Nothing ever that's easy unless you, Brand X, can uniquely can make those unconscious compromises without a moment's worth of hesitation or consideration. Nothing is "black and white" like that - they are always shades of grey. Heck even the Sorting Hat in Harry Potter had a hard time picking which house Harry was supposed to go into. ;)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Oh I never had a problem physically pushing a button to select an Origin for a character. It's just that with only five categories to pick from too many of my characters easily straddled multiple Origins definitions. It was like if I could have selected percentages of each Origin (like a DNA test result) it might have made it better. Basically almost none of my characters were 100% Magic or 100% Tech or whatever. It wasn't like I was even trying to make "Multi-Origin" characters on purpose - it just happened. *shrugs*
Like I said, not a matter of it being easy to push a button, easy enough to realize Iron Man is tech, not natural, just because he's a genius :p Domino is a mutant, even if she does use guns.
Picking an origin was easy even when people could see multiple origin types in use. It was never overly complicated.
It was "complicated" when a character could have very easily been of -more- than one Origin. Take a half-human, half-demon who's powers are magic-based. Is that a "Magic" Origin character because of the magic use or is he/she a Mutant because they aren't a pure-blood or maybe he/she's a Natural because it's "natural" for any demon-blooded to use magic. I contend practically no character is ever just 100% one thing, especially when you only have 5 categories to choose from.
Even with your Iron Man example you had to make the compromised CHOICE to call him a Tech character despite your own concession he could have been at least part Natural, just because he's a genius. You had to compromise to call Domino a Mutant even though she uses guns. With the same thinking would you call Batman 100% Tech, 100% Natural or is he arguably a bit of both or more?
Frankly I would say that even in what you might consider the "easiest" pick for Origin classification it's probably only "easy" for you because the character in question might be 95% type X, but they are never 100%. Nothing ever that's easy unless you, Brand X, can uniquely can make those unconscious compromises without a moment's worth of hesitation or consideration. Nothing is "black and white" like that - they are always shades of grey. Heck even the Sorting Hat in Harry Potter had a hard time picking which house Harry was supposed to go into. ;)

Hmm... I'd like to bring attention to one of my suggestions in the OP that I think would really help here: If we had a sliding scale that let you set what percentage of each origin/race/background/etc. your character was, or even just a series of check boxes that let you select multiple origins, would that have fixed the conundrum? If they have any effect on gameplay, then the buffs/debuffs from each origin would likewise scale according to what percentage of that origin your character is.

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TTheDDoctor wrote:
TTheDDoctor wrote:

Hm, this does actually raise an interesting point... If we did wind up with anything like character "races" or "origins" in CoT, focusing on making them general enough to touch on a large variety of different character types would make things much less complicated. We may not even need 20+ different options like Lothic mentioned earlier, if done right... Hmhmm, food for thought.

I don't really know how you can "more generic/general" than Magic, Mutant, Natural, Tech and Science, do you? And it was these five generic classifications that the Devs of CoH realized that had FAILED them in CoH.

No... either you come up with as system that would allow for practically ANY kind of classification you could imagine or you don't attempt to bother wasting your time in the first place. For CoT I'd rather the Devs not waste their efforts on a fool's errand...

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TTheDDoctor wrote:
TTheDDoctor wrote:

Hmm... I'd like to bring attention to one of my suggestions in the OP that I think would really help here: If we had a sliding scale that let you set what percentage of each origin/race/background/etc. your character was, or even just a series of check boxes that let you select multiple origins, would that have fixed the conundrum? If they have any effect on gameplay, then the buffs/debuffs from each origin would likewise scale according to what percentage of that origin your character is.

At the very least being able to select percentages of specific Origins would let you better define a character than having to be stuck selecting one choice that doesn't perfectly fit. But I'd honestly would rather just roleplay a character (or even describe them with a few descriptive sentences in a Bio) than to try to make any sense out of saying that my dude is 17% Magic, 38% Mutant and 45% Natural. *shrugs*

Again I would gladly accept there are some game systems where having hardwired races/origins makes sense. CoT is simply not going to be one of those games.

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The name of the game *IS*

The name of the game *IS* "City of Tabbies". Therefore, you can expect the default character types to be "Furry Quadraped" and "Furry Anthropomorph"!

*dances on the ceiling to Despacito!*

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

The name of the game *IS* "City of Tabbies". Therefore, you can expect the default character types to be "Furry Quadraped" and "Furry Anthropomorph"!

Okay, but what about the people?

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Oh I never had a problem physically pushing a button to select an Origin for a character. It's just that with only five categories to pick from too many of my characters easily straddled multiple Origins definitions. It was like if I could have selected percentages of each Origin (like a DNA test result) it might have made it better. Basically almost none of my characters were 100% Magic or 100% Tech or whatever. It wasn't like I was even trying to make "Multi-Origin" characters on purpose - it just happened. *shrugs*
Like I said, not a matter of it being easy to push a button, easy enough to realize Iron Man is tech, not natural, just because he's a genius :p Domino is a mutant, even if she does use guns.
Picking an origin was easy even when people could see multiple origin types in use. It was never overly complicated.
It was "complicated" when a character could have very easily been of -more- than one Origin. Take a half-human, half-demon who's powers are magic-based. Is that a "Magic" Origin character because of the magic use or is he/she a Mutant because they aren't a pure-blood or maybe he/she's a Natural because it's "natural" for any demon-blooded to use magic. I contend practically no character is ever just 100% one thing, especially when you only have 5 categories to choose from.
Even with your Iron Man example you had to make the compromised CHOICE to call him a Tech character despite your own concession he could have been at least part Natural, just because he's a genius. You had to compromise to call Domino a Mutant even though she uses guns. With the same thinking would you call Batman 100% Tech, 100% Natural or is he arguably a bit of both or more?
Frankly I would say that even in what you might consider the "easiest" pick for Origin classification it's probably only "easy" for you because the character in question might be 95% type X, but they are never 100%. Nothing ever that's easy unless you, Brand X, can uniquely can make those unconscious compromises without a moment's worth of hesitation or consideration. Nothing is "black and white" like that - they are always shades of grey. Heck even the Sorting Hat in Harry Potter had a hard time picking which house Harry was supposed to go into. ;)

Half-Human/Half-Demon who used Magic. Demon of the supernatural type? Easy, magic. Demon of the non-supernatural type who uses magic as the strongest skill set or just being a tough demon with a magic spell to throw around? Magic or Natural. Simple

Not really a compromised choice with Tony. Tech is the answer. Not a compromise.

Batman is Natural with a love for temp powers, because as we all know, natural humans are actually quite weak when sticking to just natural feats against super powered aliens :p

I also didn't compromise to call Domino mutant. I just remember laughing at how silly it was people had to say a sword using mutant with regeneration mean they could be tech (guns), natural (using the guns) or mutant. :p When one is a mutant, even when it's some crappy power, mutant tends to be the descriptive because mutant means "Woah is me. I am genetically challenged. Or a geecee for short!"

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Best way to do Origin is this

Best way to do Origin is this...

10,000 letter limit to put anything you want in this space that will be considered a bio!

:)

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Half-Human/Half-Demon who used Magic. Demon of the supernatural type? Easy, magic. Demon of the non-supernatural type who uses magic as the strongest skill set or just being a tough demon with a magic spell to throw around? Magic or Natural. Simple
Not really a compromised choice with Tony. Tech is the answer. Not a compromise.
Batman is Natural with a love for temp powers, because as we all know, natural humans are actually quite weak when sticking to just natural feats against super powered aliens :p
I also didn't compromise to call Domino mutant. I just remember laughing at how silly it was people had to say a sword using mutant with regeneration mean they could be tech (guns), natural (using the guns) or mutant. :p When one is a mutant, even when it's some crappy power, mutant tends to be the descriptive because mutant means "Woah is me. I am genetically challenged. Or a geecee for short!"

I know you think these are simple, straightforward choices but you are still making compromises for the "answers" you think best fit the handful of pigeonholes you were presented with. The problem was that you, me and everyone else had to jump through those conscious (or perhaps in your case unconscious) hoops to rationalize characters as being "just one thing" Origin-wise.

What's important now is that CoT has made this entire issue moot by eliminating the need to even have to make those compromises, even when you didn't recognize that's what you were doing all along. You still want to call Batman 100% Natural or Domino 100% Mutant then go right ahead... the rest of us will enjoy not having to live within such an idiotically limited framework.

Brand X wrote:

Best way to do Origin is this...
10,000 letter limit to put anything you want in this space that will be considered a bio!
:)

At least we can agree the 1,024 character limit of CoH was simply too small. I remember multiple times writing out the first draft of a character bio and it coming out to like 1,080 or 1,100 characters. That literally happened to me 4 or 5 different times. I'd have to waste the time/effort going back to wordsmith those bios just to get them down below the 1,024 limit and still say what I wanted them to say. Such a pointless pain in the ass...

Ironically I sort of think that 10,000 characters might be too much space - I'd settle for the limit to be in the 2,048 to 4,096 range.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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So Batman's natural all the

So Batman's natural all the time... Even if he builds himself a robot suit like he does in Dark Knight Returns? Cause that would just be a costume for him, really.

Tony's always tech even if he's just using say the repulsers from his suit? Like he's done a few times in the movies. Not super different there from a gadget heavy Batman. And for that matter would green arrow and Hawkeye be tech based because of their arrows or natural because of their skill?

What would be a non-supernatural demon? Aren't all demons by their nature supernatural?

Are vampires magic, science, or natural? I guess it really depends on the lore you're following...

I don't really agree that all mutants would be a mutant origin... Ultimate Tony Stark is a mutant. I think there was a thing with the ultimate universe that classified a lot of Heroes as technically mutants as thing that gave them their powers actually activated their dormant x-gene.

Origins aren't very cut and dry, and can be interpreted many different ways. Which is why as it's said it's best left to the bio...

Also with CoX you were SoL if you wanted your origin to be a secret... You either needed to give it away or purposely mislead people... Neither of which is all that fun.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Also with CoX you were SoL if you wanted your origin to be a secret... You either needed to give it away or purposely mislead people... Neither of which is all that fun.

Yeah I honestly didn't even think of that as yet another specific "disadvantage" of the CoH Origin system. I guess it was sort of like trying to roleplay with a stupid "Hello my name is" tag stuck to your chest...

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Amerikatt wrote:
The name of the game *IS* "City of Tabbies". Therefore, you can expect the default character types to be "Furry Quadraped" and "Furry Anthropomorph"!
Okay, but what about the people?
Be Well!
Fireheart

Those *are* the people! You do not actually expect Furless Ones to be the predominant character types, do you? Then the game would need to be renamed "City of Furless Ones"!

*plinks a piece of kibble off of Fireheart's noggin*

Silly Fireheart!

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This iodea is interesting on

This idea is interesting on different points of view.
1. This idea is pleasant :) On a RP point of view, it is really interesting to give more substance to our character since in CoT the background is a big part of the creation of your character.
2. i was about answering that CoX had already made something similar with the origins (and Lothic summarized that well). That was not really what we needed and there were no impacts on the stats.

Then, i think about, as already discussed in another thread, a "form" (a list of questions) so as to propose to the player an Archetype and a shape/body which could corresponds to his description and fill a profile readable by other players.

It's definitely, here, a RP part more than a number side of the game to my opinion :)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Project_Hero wrote:
Also with CoX you were SoL if you wanted your origin to be a secret... You either needed to give it away or purposely mislead people... Neither of which is all that fun.
Yeah I honestly didn't even think of that as yet another specific "disadvantage" of the CoH Origin system. I guess it was sort of like trying to roleplay with a stupid "Hello my name is" tag stuck to your chest...

Yeah, which speaking of names and secrets it bothered me how some people (players) would recognize your character by name even if everything about your character looked different with a costume change (up to and including body model). But that's more of people RPing badly.

T'would be nice to be able to change the name of the character per costume slot... Though that might play bloody hell with the PM system. Unless maybe all the names worked all the time but I have no idea of the coding aspect.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Lots have been said already

Lots have been said already but from what we know so far of CoT I don't think they can make a working system without increasing the complexity a helluva lot.

We only have 3 damage types, physical energy exotic, so making someone have an advantage/disadvantage towards biological or psionic damage would necessitate that they either increase the number of damage types or make aesthetics part of the mechanics. I don't think either one is a good direction for this game since, imo, it brings unnecessary complexity AND unnecessary pigeonholing. For such a "freeform" game (in terms of character aesthetics and origin) I don't think there would be any system that could make it justice on the mechanical level.

As for the "races" proposed they look much more like general concepts than races. Yes I know that you somewhat define them but from the descriptions they are concepts, not races. The only one I would call race would be machine and that is still very generous. You also mix physical and mental based "races/concepts" which is not a good idea since they are different parts of a being and can blend perfectly without detracting from each other. I don't see why (from a concept/reality PoV) someone with high intelligence (a.k.a brainiac) and f.i regeneration should always be less intelligent than a "pure brainiac". For game balancing I could see it but then the labels wouldn't really make sense. So if MWM decides to go with something like this they would have to make it a two-parter, one for physical concepts and one for mental concepts.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Also with CoX you were SoL if you wanted your origin to be a secret... You either needed to give it away or purposely mislead people... Neither of which is all that fun.
Yeah I honestly didn't even think of that as yet another specific "disadvantage" of the CoH Origin system. I guess it was sort of like trying to roleplay with a stupid "Hello my name is" tag stuck to your chest...

Yeah, which speaking of names and secrets it bothered me how some people (players) would recognize your character by name even if everything about your character looked different with a costume change (up to and including body model). But that's more of people RPing badly.
T'would be nice to be able to change the name of the character per costume slot... Though that might play bloody hell with the PM system. Unless maybe all the names worked all the time but I have no idea of the coding aspect.

MWM will have a global name system so the actual character name will most likely not matter since I suspect that we can PM and mail the global name alone, and for PM's at least the currently logged on character will receive them.

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Yes, but I believe in

Yes, but I believe in Champions which has this same naming system you could message someone just @global or name@global. And again I don't know how complicated it could/would be to allow one character slot, traditionally with one name@global, to have multiple names associated with it.

I'd love to be able to have multiple names on a singular character, then you could have an actual secret identity. Which would also stop people from being like "Hey Hulk" when you're currently Bruce Banner. But I suppose the bio would be the same... Unless we can have multiple bios as well... Which would be neat as then a singular character could have multiple super hero IDs, or multiple secret identities.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Yes, but I believe in Champions which has this same naming system you could message someone just @global or name@global. And again I don't know how complicated it could/would be to allow one character slot, traditionally with one name@global, to have multiple names associated with it.
I'd love to be able to have multiple names on a singular character, then you could have an actual secret identity. Which would also stop people from being like "Hey Hulk" when you're currently Bruce Banner. But I suppose the bio would be the same... Unless we can have multiple bios as well... Which would be neat as then a singular character could have multiple super hero IDs, or multiple secret identities.

"Simplest" way to do it would to have an ID-name (the one that actually ID's that toon) and a separate display name (the one that is shown to others as the "current" name).

Of course ID and global would always be displayed when looking at someones bio, and global would be shown in chat and maybe have a toggle to show it under Display name (similar to title or some such).

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

The name of the game *IS* "City of Tabbies". Therefore, you can expect the default character types to be "Furry Quadraped" and "Furry Anthropomorph"!
*dances on the ceiling to Despacito!*

I am apologize because I am new here and also English is not my maine language, but what is City of Tabies? I have looked the Search function and can not find an explaination. Is it something about tab targeting?

Sorry if I am stupid.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

"Simplest" way to do it would to have an ID-name (the one that actually ID's that toon) and a separate display name (the one that is shown to others as the "current" name).

Of course ID and global would always be displayed when looking at someones bio, and global would be shown in chat and maybe have a toggle to show it under Display name (similar to title or some such).

I agree you'd always want to be able to have some kind of a name@global ID available to be able to chat to someone or invite them to a team. But I would think with the global naming system in place you could effectively link multiple "local names" to a single character and have them be associated with different costume slots. Perhaps as you say make the costume slot name like a "sub-name" or title that appears above/below the main name.

It might work like this: Let's say you have two characters and your global name is XYZ. You name the first character SuperDude and he only has one costume slot. His only name would be SuperDude@XYZ so that's simple enough. But the second character (whose main name is ABC) has three costume slots. You should be able to 'name' each slot individually so that slot #1 could be named One@XYZ, slot #2 could be named Two@XYZ and slot #3 could be named Three@XYZ. Doing this should be fairly simple as long as you don't name any of your other characters (or slots) One, Two or Three. As far as the "character database" goes each of these would be completely unique to your account. The actual tricky part might be if you'd want to have another character with multiple costume slots but you -don't- want to name each slot with a unique name - how do you tell them apart name wise? Again treating the costume slot name as some kind of secondary sub-name or title might work.

In any event it should be possible to rename different costume slots with different local names assuming the Devs decide to spend a little effort making that a priority. It probably wouldn't be absolutely trivial to do but on the other hand it probably wouldn't be amazingly complicated either.

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GrandChou wrote:
GrandChou wrote:

Amerikatt wrote:
The name of the game *IS* "City of Tabbies". Therefore, you can expect the default character types to be "Furry Quadraped" and "Furry Anthropomorph"!
*dances on the ceiling to Despacito!*
I am apologize because I am new here and also English is not my maine language, but what is City of Tabies? I have looked the Search function and can not find an explaination. Is it something about tab targeting?
Sorry if I am stupid.

No you aren't stupid. Sadly there is no such thing as City of Tabbies. A "Tabby" is a kind of cat. Our good friend Amerikatt likes to get a little "carried away" with her desire to make City of Titans involve cats in any and all ways possible so she's simply "roleplaying" that her game world would be completely cat oriented. It's all just meant to be funny. :)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

GrandChou wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:
The name of the game *IS* "City of Tabbies". Therefore, you can expect the default character types to be "Furry Quadraped" and "Furry Anthropomorph"!
*dances on the ceiling to Despacito!*
I am apologize because I am new here and also English is not my maine language, but what is City of Tabies? I have looked the Search function and can not find an explaination. Is it something about tab targeting?
Sorry if I am stupid.
No you aren't stupid. Sadly there is no such thing as City of Tabbies. A "Tabby" is a kind of cat. Our good friend Amerikatt likes to get a little "carried away" with her desire to make City of Titans involve cats in any and all ways possible so she's simply "roleplaying" that her game world would be completely cat oriented. It's all just meant to be funny. :)

Thanks you Lothic.

Does this have to be? It is very confused for new people, and if they are not good at English. Would a roll-playing area of a forum be a bester place for this kind of joke instead of in the serious threads? It seems to happen very lot.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

blacke4dawn wrote:
"Simplest" way to do it would to have an ID-name (the one that actually ID's that toon) and a separate display name (the one that is shown to others as the "current" name).
Of course ID and global would always be displayed when looking at someones bio, and global would be shown in chat and maybe have a toggle to show it under Display name (similar to title or some such).
I agree you'd always want to be able to have some kind of a name@global ID available to be able to chat to someone or invite them to a team. But I would think with the global naming system in place you could effectively link multiple "local names" to a single character and have them be associated with different costume slots. Perhaps as you say make the costume slot name like a "sub-name" or title that appears above/below the main name.
It might work like this: Let's say you have two characters and your global name is XYZ. You name the first character SuperDude and he only has one costume slot. His only name would be SuperDude@XYZ so that's simple enough. But the second character (whose main name is ABC) has three costume slots. You should be able to 'name' each slot individually so that slot #1 could be named One@XYZ, slot #2 could be named Two@XYZ and slot #3 could be named Three@XYZ. Doing this should be fairly simple as long as you don't name any of your other characters (or slots) One, Two or Three. As far as the "character database" goes each of these would be completely unique to your account. The actual tricky part might be if you'd want to have another character with multiple costume slots but you -don't- want to name each slot with a unique name - how do you tell them apart name wise? Again treating the costume slot name as some kind of secondary sub-name or title might work.
In any event it should be possible to rename different costume slots with different local names assuming the Devs decide to spend a little effort making that a priority. It probably wouldn't be absolutely trivial to do but on the other hand it probably wouldn't be amazingly complicated either.

So... have a per-costume slot option to use the description as a display name? Then we can choose on a per costume basis if we want to have another name displayed or not, and we don't necessarily need to have unique names/descriptions for each costume.

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GrandChou wrote:
GrandChou wrote:

Lothic wrote:
GrandChou wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:
The name of the game *IS* "City of Tabbies". Therefore, you can expect the default character types to be "Furry Quadraped" and "Furry Anthropomorph"!
*dances on the ceiling to Despacito!*
I am apologize because I am new here and also English is not my maine language, but what is City of Tabies? I have looked the Search function and can not find an explaination. Is it something about tab targeting?
Sorry if I am stupid.
No you aren't stupid. Sadly there is no such thing as City of Tabbies. A "Tabby" is a kind of cat. Our good friend Amerikatt likes to get a little "carried away" with her desire to make City of Titans involve cats in any and all ways possible so she's simply "roleplaying" that her game world would be completely cat oriented. It's all just meant to be funny. :)
Thanks you Lothic.
Does this have to be? It is very confused for new people, and if they are not good at English. Would a roll-playing area of a forum be a bester place for this kind of joke instead of in the serious threads? It seems to happen very lot.

There are already specific forum threads made for people to strictly roleplay in but sometimes people do get "carried away" with RPing their forum persona in every post they write. I can see how it might be hard for someone who uses English as a second language to be able to tell the difference between when those people are "out-of-character" and when they are RPing.

To be honest Amerikatt is just about the only forum regular I know who tends to post in character all the time. Technically speaking she probably shouldn't do that precisely because it might confuse people like you who aren't used to it. On the other hand she's been doing it for a very long time and I think most people here are completely aware of what she's doing so I'm not really going to suggest that she stop doing it. Again I'm sorry she confused you but if I were you I'd accept this as a "learning experience" and just be aware that she is specifically posting in-character. Much of what she says is relevant and informative regardless so I would not be quick to dismiss her just because she likes to RP in the open forums.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

So... have a per-costume slot option to use the description as a display name? Then we can choose on a per costume basis if we want to have another name displayed or not, and we don't necessarily need to have unique names/descriptions for each costume.

Sure that might ultimately be the "easiest" solution. At least that would give others around you a clue that you currently want to use a "secondary ID" for RP purposes. It could be (for instance) a toggleable "costume slot description title" that would appear locally under your main name. That way people who don't care about it would never have to toggle it on.

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Yes, Amerikatt can be serious

Yes, Amerikatt can be serious, but also Fun. As a fluent English speaker, I am able to parse Amerikatt on multiple levels at once. I am sorry that this is not the case for all forum visitors. My best advice for them is that they should always expect Amerikatt to be a fun-seeking and slightly clownish character.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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I think something like this

I think something like this would be better represented by tertiaries, where you get this race tertiaries that give you some resistances and people have different dialogues if you're different races.

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

I think something like this would be better represented by tertiaries, where you get this race tertiaries that give you some resistances and people have different dialogues if you're different races.

The whole point of tertiaries is to give players the chance to better "diversify/customize" their characters. I suppose the Devs could go so far as to create specific tertiary sets that are meant to be taken as a means to define a specific "race/origin" for your character. I would still keep something like this fairly limited and I probably wouldn't even use words like "race" or "origin" to describe these kinds of tertiaries.

But as an example maybe one tertiary could be called "Underworld Affinity". It might have a few powers that are loosely "necromantic" in nature and maybe provide some kind of resurrection capability. Then people could point to having Underworld Affinity and say their character is some kind of Vampire or Zombie Lord or any number of generically related things. Another idea is "Cybernetic Affinity" that could provide powers that could be thematically related to robots or cyborg type characters. As long as you kept things like this relatively generic it could be "stretched" to fit many different character concepts.

Again I would stress that there would need to be many different versions of these kinds of "Affinity sets". If the Devs only provided like 6 or 8 of them then it would once again make people think there were only a few "legitimate" concepts to be pigeonholed into. Ideally there should be at least several dozen of these to select from and obviously that's not going to happen in time for the game's launch. This instead would make for a cool add-on update sometime after launch.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

notears wrote:
I think something like this would be better represented by tertiaries, where you get this race tertiaries that give you some resistances and people have different dialogues if you're different races.
The whole point of tertiaries is to give players the chance to better "diversify/customize" their characters. I suppose the Devs could go so far as to create specific tertiary sets that are meant to be taken as a means to define a specific "race/origin" for your character. I would still keep something like this fairly limited and I probably wouldn't even use words like "race" or "origin" to describe these kinds of tertiaries.
But as an example maybe one tertiary could be called "Underworld Affinity". It might have a few powers that are loosely "necromantic" in nature and maybe provide some kind of resurrection capability. Then people could point to having Underworld Affinity and say their character is some kind of Vampire or Zombie Lord or any number of generically related things. Another idea is "Cybernetic Affinity" that could provide powers that could be thematically related to robots or cyborg type characters. As long as you kept things like this relatively generic it could be "stretched" to fit many different character concepts.
Again I would stress that there would need to be many different versions of these kinds of "Affinity sets". If the Devs only provided like 6 or 8 of them then it would once again make people think there were only a few "legitimate" concepts to be pigeonholed into. Ideally there should be at least several dozen of these to select from and obviously that's not going to happen in time for the game's launch. This instead would make for a cool add-on update sometime after launch.

As long as any robot or cybernetic tertiary set comes with something like the self destruct power from CoX I'm all for this. Loved that power.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

As long as any robot or cybernetic tertiary set comes with something like the self destruct power from CoX I'm all for this. Loved that power.

Sure, why not? :)

The key thing is that we already know that the Devs want the Tertiaries to be a means to better "define" our characters. They've mentioned things like "Super Senses" which may allow for special things like "X-Ray Vision" powers or some-such. There's no reason why they couldn't take that concept a step further and let the unique powers of the Tertiary sets invoke the tangential ideas of a "race" or "origin".

For instance maybe one of the Cybernetic Affinity powers could be something like "Computer Operations" which might be a generic skill/power that'll let people more easily unlock computer controlled locks or systems. Maybe there could be another Tertiary called "Firearms Affinity" that could have powers like "Super Snipe" that would let any Snipe power shoot farther or be less interruptible. And maybe there could be a Tertiary called "Arcane Affinity" which could have a buff power that'll let you do more damage to magic-based targets. Really the sky's the limit on the various powers these kinds of tertiaries could provide.

Providing character defining "advantages and disadvantages" via unique Tertiary powers (that can be loaded with their own pros/cons when used) is a much preferable way to do things than to hardwire your character with a "race/origin" that provides default traditional "+5%/-5%" style mods. CoT is a game where your power choices -completely- define your character to begin with so we might as well let them do that directly.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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GrandChou wrote:

I agree with the others who have said that any implementation of races is probably best handled solely through role-playing, so as not to confine us to a limited set of pre-defined concepts.

On the other hand, regarding role-playing here in the forums:

GrandChou wrote:

Would a roll-playing area of a forum be a bester place for this kind of joke instead of in the serious threads?

I have to say that asking us to confine our RPing to the RP areas of the forum seems to me to be an eminently reasonable request. Especially if inaccurate claims are made as part of that RPing that confuse the newer members of our community.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Oh, I really hope they get

Oh, I really hope they get the multiple name thing. Just two names is enough, one for hero, one for civilian.

I once played on an RP server (fan-made NWN server) where it seemed like every other person had a different name on their character than what they introduced themselves as.

I had to use a freakin spreadsheet just to say hi to people. It was annoying to say the least.

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That most likely won’t happen

That most likely won’t happen. Sets are not designed around aesthetics. Theynare designed around mechanics.

Making a “cyborg”’ tertiary is designing a set around an anesthetic. Well, we try to do so as much as possible.


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GrandChou: My sincerest

GrandChou: My sincerest apologies to you and to the other people here who have English as a second (or third) language. I am sure that I would struggle (mightily) with a foreign language, and I commend you (and the others) for making yourself/selves understood as well as you do.

I have been roleplaying the Amerikatt character for a bit over 4 years on these Forums, so most of the long-term forumites have gotten to know the character and have accepted her as a fun-loving, clownish character. It honestly did not occur to me that a new forumite might not know quite what to make of the in-character comments.

Again, I apologize profusely to you and other new/foreign-speaking Forumites!

Welcome to City of Titans!

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I maus add : You can also

I must add : You can also check titanscity.com and choose you langage in the top right corner to have some news in your own langage :D (yes, i do advertising ! :p)

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I have to say that asking us to confine our RPing to the RP areas of the forum seems to me to be an eminently reasonable request. Especially if inaccurate claims are made as part of that RPing that confuse the newer members of our community.

I would simply ask you if you know anyone else who regularly RPs in character while posting to this forum in non-RP threads other than Amerikatt? Like I said I can sympathize with those who might be occasionally confused by that based on their use of English as a second language but it's hardly a problem of epidemic proportions on this forum.

Frankly I would consider any single forum member (like you or me) trying to unilaterally encourage (or directly tell) Amerikatt to "knock off" the RP to be grossly overstepping their bounds to say the very least. If a Dev/GM tells her to quit that's obviously another matter but again until this issue actually becomes a "significant problem" as opposed to a "trivial misunderstanding" I'd rather the non-English speaker in question learn how to deal with "conversational English" than to censor one of our long-time regular members over a single incident such as this. Let's take a deep breath and get a grip here shall we?

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

That most likely won’t happen. Sets are not designed around aesthetics. Theynare designed around mechanics.
Making a “cyborg”’ tertiary is designing a set around an anesthetic. Well, we try to do so as much as possible.

Welcome to the thread. What you said is fine enough... except no one here is suggesting that tertiary sets be designed around "aesthetics" and/or how they look.

What's being talked about here is similar to your own Super Senses idea where tertiary sets could be designed around common thematic elements that can serve as a means to further clarify or define character concepts. I'm not talking about making a "magic tertiary" that LOOKS like a bunch of spells or flashy puffs of smoke - I'm talking about potential generic themes (again like your own Super Senses) that would obviously be customizble using whatever "aesthetics" a player chooses for them.

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Much appreciation, Amerikatt!

Much appreciation, Amerikatt!

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GrandChou wrote:
GrandChou wrote:

Much appreciation, Amerikatt!

Thank you for being understanding with this. Many people in this forum attempt to use humor to express themselves even if they aren't actually roleplaying so anytime you see something that just doesn't make sense (like the City of Tabbies thing) it's likely just someone trying to be funny. Most of us are huge fans of CoT and we're all looking forward to playing this wonderful game. :)

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I do not want people to be

I do not want people to be not funny or happy. But humor many times not translate even when the words are right, so it help if at least the words are right to begin.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

so anytime you see something that just doesn't make sense (like the City of Tabbies thing) it's likely just someone trying to be funny.

WRONG !
Sometimes, my sentenses are nonsense but it's not to be funny !...
it's dramatic. lol

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
That most likely won’t happen. Sets are not designed around aesthetics. Theynare designed around mechanics.
Making a “cyborg”’ tertiary is designing a set around an anesthetic. Well, we try to do so as much as possible.
Welcome to the thread. What you said is fine enough... except no one here is suggesting that tertiary sets be designed around "aesthetics" and/or how they look.
What's being talked about here is similar to your own Super Senses idea where tertiary sets could be designed around common thematic elements that can serve as a means to further clarify or define character concepts. I'm not talking about making a "magic tertiary" that LOOKS like a bunch of spells or flashy puffs of smoke - I'm talking about potential generic themes (again like your own Super Senses) that would obviously be customizble using whatever "aesthetics" a player chooses for them.

Except Super Senses is a category which coveyes a series of mechanics using the primary medium of the game - visuals.
Magic does not itself convey mechanics anymore then “cyborg” does.
Magic as a theme is an aesthetic in every other aspect of the game - any power set can be made to look like “magic”.

Making a tertiary set whose mechanic theme is “magic” changs the nature of what “magic”’is in context of the game. It is no longer an aesthetic, it is now a mechanic.

Travel Powers are a category. Melee is a category. Magic and cybernetics (two of the common examples of this thread) are not categories for basic play styles or basic finctional mechanics. They are, in every other aspext of the game - vidual aesthetics.

Furthermore, the examples of + / - % values of protection vslues will not work the way you necessarily think they will.

1+1 does not always necessarily equal 2 for purposes of stacking effects.

And when small negatives csn easily be built out to no longer finctionally result in a statistical weakness, it is no longer serving the fcuntion it was designed to.


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Right, the purpose of

Right, the purpose of Tertiaries is to supply new powers, not to modify existing ones. Masteries are what modify powers/playstyle.

No need for a Smurf Tertiary so that your Smurf can be Smurfier than the other Smurfs. Next thing you know, people will be discriminating against the other Smurfs for not being Smurfy enough. Then Smurf powers will become Required and the Devs will have to grant Smurfiness to all players and rebalance the whole game around the new Smurf reality!

Be Well!
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Smurf me. That was hard to

Smurf me. That was hard to follow.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Smurf me. That was hard to follow.

*pours 5 gallons of electric blue paint on Project_Hero*

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Project_Hero wrote:
Smurf me. That was hard to follow.
*pours 5 gallons of electric blue paint on Project_Hero*

Well. I suppose I did ask for it.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Most of the characters I

Most of the characters I bring into MMOs are adaptations of characters I have played in tabletop campaigns, or used as NPCs in my own campaigns. The origin system in CoH gave me huge headaches.

For example, here's a character that I ended up never being able to create in game, partly because I could never satisfactorily assign an origin (and partly because the only way to make a power armor character was as a Crab Spider, and I already had one of those).

Aluminum Man

A mutant Asgardian elf smith was caught up in a fight between Aesir and Jotuns, and in the process was terribly injured and sent to Midgard by accident. His body was repaired with (polymer) bionic augmentation by a villain group hoping to use him as a pawn, but he escaped. In time, he adjusted to terrestrial life, and built himself an aluminum-based suit of magically powered armor.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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CallmeBlue wrote:
CallmeBlue wrote:

Most of the characters I bring into MMOs are adaptations of characters I have played in tabletop campaigns, or used as NPCs in my own campaigns. The origin system in CoH gave me huge headaches.
For example, here's a character that I ended up never being able to create in game, partly because I could never satisfactorily assign an origin (and partly because the only way to make a power armor character was as a Crab Spider, and I already had one of those).
Aluminum Man
A mutant Asgardian elf smith was caught up in a fight between Aesir and Jotuns, and in the process was terribly injured and sent to Midgard by accident. His body was repaired with (polymer) bionic augmentation by a villain group hoping to use him as a pawn, but he escaped. In time, he adjusted to terrestrial life, and built himself an aluminum-based suit of magically powered armor.

So a mutant, magic, tech hero who was augmented with science... That is a tricky one to put into a singular category.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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CallmeBlue wrote:
CallmeBlue wrote:

Most of the characters I bring into MMOs are adaptations of characters I have played in tabletop campaigns, or used as NPCs in my own campaigns. The origin system in CoH gave me huge headaches.
For example, here's a character that I ended up never being able to create in game, partly because I could never satisfactorily assign an origin (and partly because the only way to make a power armor character was as a Crab Spider, and I already had one of those).
Aluminum Man
A mutant Asgardian elf smith was caught up in a fight between Aesir and Jotuns, and in the process was terribly injured and sent to Midgard by accident. His body was repaired with (polymer) bionic augmentation by a villain group hoping to use him as a pawn, but he escaped. In time, he adjusted to terrestrial life, and built himself an aluminum-based suit of magically powered armor.

Sounds Tech to me.

Powered suit. Cybernetics. Everything else seems to just be flavor text to add little bits of "I'm totally special and different and here's why..."

:) The secret is to not over think it.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Smurf me. That was hard to follow.

When the actual answer is found at a 90 degree angle pointing away from what you were expecting ... no real surprise there.


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I have a similar character -

I have a similar character - a gentically engineered human / alien hybrid which developed mutated abilities (not part of the alien’s basic traits, nor of the engineered traits), augmented with cybernetics powerd by soul crystals.


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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

CallmeBlue wrote:
Most of the characters I bring into MMOs are adaptations of characters I have played in tabletop campaigns, or used as NPCs in my own campaigns. The origin system in CoH gave me huge headaches.
For example, here's a character that I ended up never being able to create in game, partly because I could never satisfactorily assign an origin (and partly because the only way to make a power armor character was as a Crab Spider, and I already had one of those).
Aluminum Man
A mutant Asgardian elf smith was caught up in a fight between Aesir and Jotuns, and in the process was terribly injured and sent to Midgard by accident. His body was repaired with (polymer) bionic augmentation by a villain group hoping to use him as a pawn, but he escaped. In time, he adjusted to terrestrial life, and built himself an aluminum-based suit of magically powered armor.
Sounds Tech to me.
Powered suit. Cybernetics. Everything else seems to just be flavor text to add little bits of "I'm totally special and different and here's why..."
:) The secret is to not over think it.

So would the destroyer from the first Thor movie by that logic be tech? I mean if aluminum man's powered armor was just using magic as a power source then I guess it's tech, but if it's some sort of technomancy or some such it gets a little more complicated. And what about Ironman's Uru armor? Magically enchanted suit of power armor that has some abilities derived from tech and some from magic.

It's way better not having to worry about such things.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

CallmeBlue wrote:
Most of the characters I bring into MMOs are adaptations of characters I have played in tabletop campaigns, or used as NPCs in my own campaigns. The origin system in CoH gave me huge headaches.
For example, here's a character that I ended up never being able to create in game, partly because I could never satisfactorily assign an origin (and partly because the only way to make a power armor character was as a Crab Spider, and I already had one of those).
Aluminum Man
A mutant Asgardian elf smith was caught up in a fight between Aesir and Jotuns, and in the process was terribly injured and sent to Midgard by accident. His body was repaired with (polymer) bionic augmentation by a villain group hoping to use him as a pawn, but he escaped. In time, he adjusted to terrestrial life, and built himself an aluminum-based suit of magically powered armor.
Sounds Tech to me.
Powered suit. Cybernetics. Everything else seems to just be flavor text to add little bits of "I'm totally special and different and here's why..."
:) The secret is to not over think it.

Well, except that mutant superinvention is indispensably necessary to maintain his magitech suit. Also, the elf physiology is more than window dressing, since it offers advantages, and limits the choice of materials for the suit.

Sometimes the choice really is easy; my main is a Hermetic magician.

I still maintain that such discrete choices represent a Procrustean bed.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Brand X wrote:
CallmeBlue wrote:
Most of the characters I bring into MMOs are adaptations of characters I have played in tabletop campaigns, or used as NPCs in my own campaigns. The origin system in CoH gave me huge headaches.
For example, here's a character that I ended up never being able to create in game, partly because I could never satisfactorily assign an origin (and partly because the only way to make a power armor character was as a Crab Spider, and I already had one of those).
Aluminum Man
A mutant Asgardian elf smith was caught up in a fight between Aesir and Jotuns, and in the process was terribly injured and sent to Midgard by accident. His body was repaired with (polymer) bionic augmentation by a villain group hoping to use him as a pawn, but he escaped. In time, he adjusted to terrestrial life, and built himself an aluminum-based suit of magically powered armor.
Sounds Tech to me.
Powered suit. Cybernetics. Everything else seems to just be flavor text to add little bits of "I'm totally special and different and here's why..."
:) The secret is to not over think it.
So would the destroyer from the first Thor movie by that logic be tech? I mean if aluminum man's powered armor was just using magic as a power source then I guess it's tech, but if it's some sort of technomancy or some such it gets a little more complicated. And what about Ironman's Uru armor? Magically enchanted suit of power armor that has some abilities derived from tech and some from magic.
It's way better not having to worry about such things.

Well, we go back to CoH had origins and one had to choose one. Marvel of course never had to worry about such things. I'd leave Ironman tech, with a magic armor costume slot :p

Destroyer from Thor Tech or Magic, pick and go :) May that would be the time to look at the origin power and go "Hmmm..." :)

Which btw, that was the real down side to choosing an origin! I'd be like "But I want THAT ORIGIN POWER!"

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Kinda the whole point is that

Kinda the whole point is that choosing an origin isn't always cut and dry and it's best left to be non existent.

As for origin powers, the throwing knife and the taser were always my favorites. But I'd rather have been able to just pick one out of a list rather than it being linked to my origin.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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I always felt it was pretty

I always felt it was pretty useless(as far as the actual gameplay goes) to choose an Origin, and then have to find all the different shops for each type. So I would be perfectly fine with it being open to the player to specify(unofficially) what their backstory is. I could see there being a need for different shops for differing types of refinements(such as a shop for mainly damage refinements or one for accuracy, etc). Rather than there being 50 shops that sell the same exact thing with just a different label(Origin Type).

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
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I've always liked having a

I've always liked having a bunch of different elements mixing together for my characters origin. My main was a mix of Mutant/Science/Tech. My main in CoT would probably be Mutant/Magic. Or Supernatural/Feral going by the examples above. It's a nice little flavor add-on that I didn't like or dislike in CoH, but I honestly never paid any attention to it. And while having different origins have different perks would be nice, I'm not sure I like the idea that it would have an actual affect on my characters build.

To me it feels like it's implying that everyone who is Supernatural is somehow physically resistant. Or all Brainiacs are resistant to control and weak to physical attacks. Even if you make a hybrid, why would my 6'8" Mr Universe built Brainiac be as weak to physical attacks as your 5'0" petite Brainiac? That alone puts me off the idea. I'd rather just say my character is a Brainiac and make up my own strengths/weaknesses using my imagination and chosen powersets. Sure, the powersets won't always be perfect but I can accept that as a balancing issue.

However if it was a system like CoH had, where your origin gave you access to a special set of missions or something, I'd be all for it. Nothing too limiting or restricting while at the same promoting altitis. Like how Flash is usually the one who deals with Speedsters. X-Men handle most mutant issues. Dr Strange keeps an eye on the magic. Batman generally takes care of street level stuff. Your origin contact gives you a starting mission or periodically gives you missions depending on what you chose. Could take it a step further and give multiple options for it. Does your Supernatural character deal with magic and witches and rituals to summon evil gods? Do they mostly deal with devils and demons and cults? Or is it monsters like werewolves and vampires and annoying dagger-wielding garden gnomes?

As long as it's not anything restrictive that really affects your character one way or the other. Just gives them a little extra flavor.

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RandomZombie wrote:
RandomZombie wrote:

I've always liked having a bunch of different elements mixing together for my characters origin. My main was a mix of Mutant/Science/Tech. My main in CoT would probably be Mutant/Magic. Or Supernatural/Feral going by the examples above. It's a nice little flavor add-on that I didn't like or dislike in CoH, but I honestly never paid any attention to it. And while having different origins have different perks would be nice, I'm not sure I like the idea that it would have an actual affect on my characters build.
To me it feels like it's implying that everyone who is Supernatural is somehow physically resistant. Or all Brainiacs are resistant to control and weak to physical attacks. Even if you make a hybrid, why would my 6'8" Mr Universe built Brainiac be as weak to physical attacks as your 5'0" petite Brainiac? That alone puts me off the idea. I'd rather just say my character is a Brainiac and make up my own strengths/weaknesses using my imagination and chosen powersets. Sure, the powersets won't always be perfect but I can accept that as a balancing issue.
However if it was a system like CoH had, where your origin gave you access to a special set of missions or something, I'd be all for it. Nothing too limiting or restricting while at the same promoting altitis. Like how Flash is usually the one who deals with Speedsters. X-Men handle most mutant issues. Dr Strange keeps an eye on the magic. Batman generally takes care of street level stuff. Your origin contact gives you a starting mission or periodically gives you missions depending on what you chose. Could take it a step further and give multiple options for it. Does your Supernatural character deal with magic and witches and rituals to summon evil gods? Do they mostly deal with devils and demons and cults? Or is it monsters like werewolves and vampires and annoying dagger-wielding garden gnomes?
As long as it's not anything restrictive that really affects your character one way or the other. Just gives them a little extra flavor.

That sounds much more like a "battle/enemy" preference than it does "origin".

Personally I would have nothing against having such a preference system, especially if it could indicate on contacts how much they work within those preferences, as long as it's optional and much more aimed towards QoL and/or RP.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Except Super Senses is a category which coveyes a series of mechanics using the primary medium of the game - visuals.
Magic does not itself convey mechanics anymore then “cyborg” does.
Magic as a theme is an aesthetic in every other aspect of the game - any power set can be made to look like “magic”.

Making a tertiary set whose mechanic theme is “magic” changs the nature of what “magic”’is in context of the game. It is no longer an aesthetic, it is now a mechanic.

Travel Powers are a category. Melee is a category. Magic and cybernetics (two of the common examples of this thread) are not categories for basic play styles or basic finctional mechanics. They are, in every other aspext of the game - vidual aesthetics.

Well clearly you missed my point again, but at least that's not uncommon between us. One of these days you'll finally figure out that I play Devil's Advocate on this forum almost exclusively to HELP YOU.

Case in point: If you don't like the idea of expressing "Origins via Tertaries" then for gods sake you should be completely against the original idea of this thread of trying to REPLACE the old CoH concept of Origins with "Races" in CoT. Bottomline this game should not be trying to hardwire anything like "origins" or "races" into character creation, PERIOD!

Tannim222 wrote:

Furthermore, the examples of + / - % values of protection vslues will not work the way you necessarily think they will.

1+1 does not always necessarily equal 2 for purposes of stacking effects.

And when small negatives csn easily be built out to no longer finctionally result in a statistical weakness, it is no longer serving the fcuntion it was designed to.

This is exactly why I'm ALWAYS AGAINST having things like this creep into games like this. You do realize I was on the side against this right? Whenever there's talk of having any kind of system of "weaknesses" introduced into the game there will be people who will always figure out the best way to min/max those weaknesses into insignificance.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

CallmeBlue wrote:
Most of the characters I bring into MMOs are adaptations of characters I have played in tabletop campaigns, or used as NPCs in my own campaigns. The origin system in CoH gave me huge headaches.
For example, here's a character that I ended up never being able to create in game, partly because I could never satisfactorily assign an origin (and partly because the only way to make a power armor character was as a Crab Spider, and I already had one of those).
Aluminum Man
A mutant Asgardian elf smith was caught up in a fight between Aesir and Jotuns, and in the process was terribly injured and sent to Midgard by accident. His body was repaired with (polymer) bionic augmentation by a villain group hoping to use him as a pawn, but he escaped. In time, he adjusted to terrestrial life, and built himself an aluminum-based suit of magically powered armor.
Sounds Tech to me.
Powered suit. Cybernetics. Everything else seems to just be flavor text to add little bits of "I'm totally special and different and here's why..."
:) The secret is to not over think it.

No... apparently your "secret" was to just pick one of several viable origin choices out of the proverbial hat and not really give a second thought about the one you pick. I'll grant you that's certainly a "quick and dirty" way to resolve these issues but unfortunately most of us would rather spend a few moments defining our characters the way WE want, not the way the GAME wants.

If I'm going to potentially be playing a character for hundreds of hours I don't see giving concerns like this a few minutes of thought as "over thinking" it in the least.

Brand X wrote:

Which btw, that was the real down side to choosing an origin! I'd be like "But I want THAT ORIGIN POWER!"

Yes that was one of many reasons why the Origin system of CoH was less than ideal. Sometimes I just picked an Origin for a character based on which of those powers I wanted - that's a relatively "dumb" reason to base such a decision on.

Project_Hero wrote:

It's way better not having to worry about such things.

Project_Hero wrote:

Kinda the whole point is that choosing an origin isn't always cut and dry and it's best left to be non existent.

As for origin powers, the throwing knife and the taser were always my favorites. But I'd rather have been able to just pick one out of a list rather than it being linked to my origin.

Exactly.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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As an RPer, let me just ask..

As an RPer, let me just ask...because it sounds like you were one of those RPers...

"This origin choice is so important! It matters!" "Okay, so the CoH storyline says..." "Screw that! I make up my own rules and lore for RP."

So, the question I have to ask, why did it matter to anyone, if that's what they were going to say about everything else in CoH. why would the origin choice even be that big of a deal and that big of a complaint? Lots of people who complained about the single origin selection didn't even pay attention to anything else the game had when it came to lore. :p

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I guess it's because the

I guess it's because the origin is something you have control over and the lore isn't.

It'd be sort of like writing out your bio and then when someone comments on it being like "well, no it's actually like this..."

I'm just guessing though. I can't speak for any other RPers but myself and I attempted to follow the lore as best as I could without excessively reading into it.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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While I kinda, sorta see

While I kinda, sorta see having "Natural" for a Peacebringer, Amerikatt's backstory would have made her more of a "Mutant".

Still, her powers were natural to her, yet they were -- technically -- due to a mutation from cosmic energy!

[Amerikatt's mother was hostess to a Kheldian Peacebringer while she was pregnant with the youngling who would become Amerikitten!]

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

As an RPer, let me just ask...because it sounds like you were one of those RPers...
"This origin choice is so important! It matters!" "Okay, so the CoH storyline says..." "Screw that! I make up my own rules and lore for RP."
So, the question I have to ask, why did it matter to anyone, if that's what they were going to say about everything else in CoH. why would the origin choice even be that big of a deal and that big of a complaint? Lots of people who complained about the single origin selection didn't even pay attention to anything else the game had when it came to lore. :p

I don't remember the CoH storyline going into any depth regarding your characters Origin. They were a pretty generic "one size fits all" type of thing. Probably for that very reason. Origin should be yet another customization option that, if it has to add something, it just adds more flavor to the character.

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Right, so, for maximum flavor

Right, so, for maximum flavor, let the Player make up their own 'origin' for each character! I'm so excited!

Be Well!
Fireheart

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RandomZombie wrote:
RandomZombie wrote:

Brand X wrote:
As an RPer, let me just ask...because it sounds like you were one of those RPers...
"This origin choice is so important! It matters!" "Okay, so the CoH storyline says..." "Screw that! I make up my own rules and lore for RP."
So, the question I have to ask, why did it matter to anyone, if that's what they were going to say about everything else in CoH. why would the origin choice even be that big of a deal and that big of a complaint? Lots of people who complained about the single origin selection didn't even pay attention to anything else the game had when it came to lore. :p
I don't remember the CoH storyline going into any depth regarding your characters Origin. They were a pretty generic "one size fits all" type of thing. Probably for that very reason. Origin should be yet another customization option that, if it has to add something, it just adds more flavor to the character.

They actually had a set of missions all about the origins. Most people ignored them :p

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Apparently, cause other than

Apparently, cause other than the beginning missions this is the first I've heard of them. But then again I was all about radio missions when they came out.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

As an RPer, let me just ask...because it sounds like you were one of those RPers...
"This origin choice is so important! It matters!" "Okay, so the CoH storyline says..." "Screw that! I make up my own rules and lore for RP."
So, the question I have to ask, why did it matter to anyone, if that's what they were going to say about everything else in CoH. why would the origin choice even be that big of a deal and that big of a complaint? Lots of people who complained about the single origin selection didn't even pay attention to anything else the game had when it came to lore. :p

You might have answered your own question here: If you were a person that created their own characters and their own lore to support them then there's a good chance you probably HATED that CoH forced you to accept a limiting category system (a.k.a. Origins) based on a lore that didn't even fit with your character concepts.

Or to say it another way: The main strength of CoH was that you could essentially play it ANY WAY you wanted and when the game attempted to do anything even as "minor" as make you play it the way the Devs wanted you to play it was as grating as nails on a chalkboard. Imagine playing D&D and creating your own campaign world and for some reason the game rules forced you to incorporate gnomes into your world. What happens if you happen to hate gnomes with every fiber of your very soul? Do you stop playing D&D altogether or do you go ahead and play but just every once in while verbally express your utter disgust for gnomes. The latter option was basically what people who hated Origins in CoH did while playing CoH.

Project_Hero wrote:

I guess it's because the origin is something you have control over and the lore isn't.
It'd be sort of like writing out your bio and then when someone comments on it being like "well, no it's actually like this..."
I'm just guessing though. I can't speak for any other RPers but myself and I attempted to follow the lore as best as I could without excessively reading into it.

Yeah this is probably the "nicer" way to say what I was trying to say about it.

Again the core "problem" with MMOs are they are much like that D&D campaign I talked about eariler where you don't have full 100% control over it. In order to play you have to be at least somewhat willing to "compromise" what you hate about the MMO versus what you love about it. Basically I loved most things about CoH and that's why I played it for 8.5 years. But that doesn't mean I was supposed to (or even needed to) love 100% everything about it and for me the issue of hardwired Origins was definitely one of the few things I never could stomach. Thankfully the CoT Devs apparently share my fundamental dislike for the concept - it's pretty much just that simple.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Nah. Just can't see saying

Nah. Just can't see saying "Screw the lore and the game's story line, it doesn't matter to me." but the meta aspect of "Pick an origin" was some how so bad for the RPer. Easier to ignore the pick an origin than the story line, as you tend to have to play the game to level or to do some of the awesome stuff, like the ITF was.

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