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CHARACTER CREATOR early review.

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All 4 Mutants
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CHARACTER CREATOR early review.

After a poo show over my video card, I am finally able to play the character creator of City of Titans. Now I am still a bit skeptical and going off the impression of a fully playable session after the aforementioned incident. Going in I am welcomed to the usual intros and finally able to create a character. Now looking at it at first has some elements of Skyrim modding using their character creator from the Nexus or something from Fallout 4(bad example carry one), which made me excited to recreate one of my characters from it, and Boy was I wrong. First I want to get off and say thanks for the preview, however it was just that, a preview.

Oh were to begin. I got extremely frustrated that much of the facial detailing was not available and the the lack of hair, eyes, noses, and lips, which is important in making a unique hero or villain was not there which threw me off as immersion goes. I grew increasingly frustrated that I could not bring the jaw up and round out the face to the way I was use to in Modded Skyrim and elements of Black Desert character creation, and yes I know it is early access, but oh wow, the female hero looked like TNG Data in drag. And it did not help that when I was done, I went into the small village only to be greeted by a bury female hero who screamed "do you lift bruh?". There was severe lack of femininity in this character in stances(idle) and looks I was taken back by how much manliness she had over me. Talk about insecurities.

Enough waffling, for the time being the CC( not the other one) needs some serious help. And the fact that it is going up against some of the most advanced and old CC, I have found I needed to speak out over it. Now I am not trying to crap on what is being offered, but merely offering some constructive criticism and perhaps get some people on fine tuning the creator and make some tweaks it solely needs at this time. Taken back and given "meh, good enough" by the devs, has me shaking my head an wondering, "is this it"? Is there a way to split the team and finish the creator and still work on the story and city?

Evolution is key. And mutants are key.

Huckleberry
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You bring up a good point

You bring up a good point with the idle stances and poses. I think it would be a good idea if we could select from a few choices, or maybe from a selection of prix frixe slates so that we can choose to be as feminie or as masculine, as passive or as aggressive, as comedic or as stioc as we desire. I'm sure there will be just as much of a demand for feminine men as there will be for masculine women, not to mention someone who claims a genderless character.

As for the ability to have a different face, we've discussed this. (apparently most of the discussions I'm recalling were on Discord is a shame because of how poor that medium is for citation). There are certain phenotypes that just can't be developed using the current builder. Flat nose bridges, upturned noses, eyes with an epicanthic fold, philtrims, rounded jawlines, freckles, eyelashes (why are there no eyelashes?), etc., etc. If we are given a few different faces to start from with these differences inherent, then applying the sliders after that should enable 99% of the choices players will want. Basically the Devs acknowledged this and agreed that they should provide more than one starting face to account for these alternatives.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
warlocc
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All 4 Mutants wrote:
All 4 Mutants wrote:

Is there a way to split the team and finish the creator and still work on the story and city?

Unfortunately, not really. To begin with, the people with the skills to work on adding options to the dresser aren't the same ones that work on the story or city (generally). It's a totally different skillset. And at the moment, we don't have anyone at all that can re-do the female model. The devs worked on the character creator to the point you have it then said "we don't want to get stuck perfecting a character creator for a decade, we need to get to work on the rest of the game". The good news is, that means there's a lot more "game" coming soon.

The plan is to get more of the game finished to get more into people's hands (and ideally get a few more sales), then go back and start improving all these things before we go into beta.

PR Team, Forum Moderator, Live Response Team

Huckleberry
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Assymetry. I was looking to

Asymmetry. I was looking to make a character with one big arm and I couldn't. Is asymmetrical character design going to be a possibility? I can understand if there would be limitations on skeletal assymetry, such as for legs, for instance. But arms should be free.
The 3D mesh wouldn't have to be symmetrical would it? The only reason I can think of for not allowing asymmetry is the resources the engine might have to use if the engine is already budgeted for only half a character and merely mirrors it. But since we already have asymmetrical costume design, is that budget really a concern?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
StellarAgent
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They have talked about

They have talked about asymmetrical bodies way in the past but then went through some staff changes.

I think they first want to get meshes working properly in all "normal" builds first, then they'll look at the odder builds.

I too would.like to make a Mr. Hyde type character.

Redlynne
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A Two-Face type character

A Two-Face type character would require asymmetry.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Foradain
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As would a mythology-accurate

As would a mythology-accurate Hel.

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Millennium City Refugee.
Avatar courtesy of Satellite9

Huckleberry
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I'm ashamed to say it has

I'm ashamed to say it has taken me this long, but I have just completed a

DEEP DIVE INTO THE POWER SETS

I'm going to be listing these comments in the order that the power sets are listed in the Avatar Builder.
Guardian

  • Sentinel
    • Preservation
      • Physical Protection is the 2nd power provided. It provides protection only against physical attacks. As such, I recommend mission designers consider this when designing the earlier missions for which this may be the only protection power available.
    • Barrier Generation
      • What is a "Long Area of Effect?" Is that an AoE centered on the caster with a long range? Is is just a large ground-targeted AoE? Is it a narrow stripe extending from the caster?
    • Strategy
      • Increase Morale currently provides a morale buff to the party when an ally is downed. This could lead to some allies being more valuable when downed than contributing. I suggest an alternative such as Increase the party morale boost for every attack against the targeted ally and the morale boost slowly dissipates if no attacks made against that ally. If the ally is downed the boost ends.
    • Vampiric Regeneration
      • There are a number of abilities in this power set and others with a comment like "... as long as you can maintain this Ability." Does this mean it is a channeled ability? Does this mean there is a power cost to it? Is it a toggled ability? And if it is toggled, does this mean it can be interrupted?

Operator

  • Director
    • Gravity Control
      • Heavy Impact. There is an alternate activation for the KNOCK effect for this power and every other KNOCK effect that can knock BACK. How do you envision the alternate activation working?

Enforcer

  • Gladiator
    • Tactical Combat
      • Each ability has three combo activations: 1, 2 and 3. I understand this to be that there is a three-hit combo rotation for this powerset. Am I correct in understanding that any such ability will have its first effect when it is used as the first hit of the combo, its second effect when used for the second hit of a combo, and its third effect when used for the third hit of the combo; thus allowing the player to use different abilities for the first, second and third hits of the combo depending on which effects they want to create?
      • Tactical Awareness states that "all combo effects trigger at combo 3 while this power is active." Does this mean that the effects of the first and second hits of a combo are not activated and only the effects of hit #3 are in effect for each ability used, regardless of the sequence of the combo rotation?
    • Massive Melee
      • All but two of the abilities in this power set have a shorter cast time the more momentum the character has. Is the starting (slowest) cast time with zero momentum the listed cast time, or is the listed cast time the shortest it can get? It seems the listed cast times are on par with the other cast times listed for other power sets.
      • The other two abilities do not have their cast times listed. In fact there are 16 abilities across all the power sets that do not have a cast time listed but should (not counting the permanent abilities of the Stalwart archetype)
      • Demolish and Massive Annihilation and a few of the others procc different effects depending on the amount of momentum the character has. The UI developer is going to need to display when the threshold is reached somehow so the player knows what effects will procc when

Ranger

  • Partisan
    • Force Blast
      • Force Blast Shares the same name as the power set. This could lead to confusion and they should probably not have the same name. The same problem exists for Vampiric Blast and Psychic Blast.
      • Focused Blast and Focused Pulse have nothing in common with each other, despite their names suggesting they should. It sounds like blast should be a single target or area effect with a certain characteristic and the pulse would be a cone-shaped version of it, or something like that. instead the blast is a single target knock down/back while the pulse is a single target push with a damage over time and a debuff. And Force Torrent is the cone shaped push with a DoT and disorient debuff. I recommend you rearrange these names so they make more logical sense in relation to each other.
    • Atrophic Blast
      • Many of the abilities in this power set state that they attack with a Damage over Time leaving the enemy with a different Damage over Time effect. I don't think this is what you meant to say. I think you meant to say it attacks with a certain amount of damage, and then leaves the enemy with a damage over time effect, correct?
    • Psychic Blast
      • Both Psychic Blast and Synaptic Feedback cause sleep and also damage the enemy. And Psywave charms and damages the enemy. This is counter to what most MMO players have experienced. We expect sleep and charm spells to be broken when the target suffers damage. Will this not be the case in CoT?

Stalwart

  • The Stalwart Archetype has a lot of abilities with the permanent tag. I understand that to mean these abilities' effects apply as soon as the player selects them for the character, and then have no further activation. They are, in fact, permanent but can be augmented and refined and mastered as any other ability?
  • Many of the power sets in the Stalwart archetype have no offensive abilities whatsoever. They all seem to have at least one passive damaging ability, like deflecting or such, but in my opinion this is inadequate. I understand that Stalwarts are going to have to rely on their Secondary power sets to provide their offensive capabilities, but you are missing out on some great potential here. When I get to the various power sets below, I will submit a suggestion for an offensive ability that is in keeping with the theme of that power set and you can see if that works with your modeling.
  • Bulwark
    • Invulnerability
      • Provide Invulnerability with a body slam ability that lets them use their invulnerable body itself as an offensive weapon. In fact, this could be a short-ranged charge attack that can be a knock down or knock back with alternate activation so the invulnerable tank can protect his squishy glass cannon party-members or interrupt an enemy or break down a door or other breakable mission item.
    • Solid Form
      • I like the pull and DoT that Destabilizing mass generates. I probably wouldn't change that except to perhaps make the pull stronger or maybe increase it to a hold for those closest to the character.
      • What happens to the deflected damage done by Deflective Armor if the character is targeting an enemy outside melee range, if the character is currently targeting an ally, or if the character has no current target when the damage is deflected?
    • Super Agility
      • I have two suggestions for offensive abilities for this power set
        1. Rather than a direct offensive power, perhaps a toggled ability that increases the critical rate and critical damage of the character's attacks, or
        2. A trip power that knocks the enemy down, deals a little damage, and causes a lingering mobility penalty on the enemy
      • Redirection seems odd for a toggled power. Does it just always deflect damage to the character's current target whenever it is active? What is the range? What if an ally is targeted or if the character has no target?
    • Grit
      • I have two offensive suggestions for this power set as well:
        1. The character grapples the enemy somehow, exposing himself herself or itself to damage from all sides but Holding the target in place and causing Damage over Time while in effect, or
        2. A headbutt that does some damage and disorients the target temporarily. Obviously due to aesthetic decoupling, it doesn't actually have to be animated as a headbutt; but with that name, everyone will understand that it belongs in Grit.
    • Atrophic Aura
      • The damage-causing abilities of the power set seem adequate as listed.
      • Atrophic Stealth actually has nothing to do with stealth or concealment. It needs a name change.
      • Atrophic Empowerment buffs Energy type abilities only. Yes I understand that this buffs the DoT caused by this power set's abilities, but what about those of the secondary power set? Since Bulwarks do their primary damage with their secondary power sets, this seems to make any secondary power set choice that does not include energy type a poor choice.

I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Redlynne
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Stalwart

  • Bulwark
    • Invulnerability
      • Provide Invulnerability with a body slam ability that lets them use their invulnerable body itself as an offensive weapon. In fact, this could be a short-ranged charge attack that can be a knock down or knock back with alternate activation so the invulnerable tank can protect his squishy glass cannon party-members or interrupt an enemy or break down a door or other breakable mission item.

Counter-proposal:
A mobility attack that moves the PC to the destination point (so A to B fast or teleport movement) resulting in knockdown/back effect in a volume "aimed in front" of the vector of movement, with the volume affected being modified by the distance from A to B.
This could even us a "hold to charge" the ability with different results for different times spent charging up the attack.

  • 0-1.5 seconds "hold to charge" (Stage 1) = 60º cone (30º each side) aimed at $Target as determined from point A when attack is initiated, not point B where the animation is completed
  • 1.5-3.0 seconds "hold to charge" (Stage 2) = 120º cone (60º each side) aimed at $Target as determined from point A when attack is initiated, not point B where the animation is completed
  • 3.0-4.5 seconds "hold to charge" (Stage 3) = 240º cone (120º each side) aimed at $Target as determined from point A when attack is initiated, not point B where the animation is completed
  • 4.5+ seconds "hold to charge" (Stage 4) = 360º cone (180º each side) aimed at $Target as determined from point A when attack is initiated, not point B where the animation is completed

Basically, you "build up" this attack by holding down the keybind for the power and then activate the power when letting go of the keybind. How long the build up lasts (provide a charging bar UI element) determines the cone of effect angle when the attack is used. Probably best to use a Teleport to $Target game mechanic for the movement of the PC so as to keep the power functionally "agnostic" with respect to the PC's current movement power toggled on (running, jumping, flying, etc.) if any. You can use it during combat as an "instant click" type of attack with reduced "hold to charge" on the keybind for lesser effects at close range (including melee range), or "hold to charge" on the keyboard for and longer duration to achieve a greater effect (more cone angle) when initiating combat from a distance allowing a "charge into battle" that can knockdown/back a clustered group of $Targets.

Judicious use and control of the timing could even allow Stage 2 to be used in melee combat via use of what I like to call the "Hop 'n' Pop" maneuver where a Tank will deliberately allow themselves to be surrounded on all sides (creating a PBAoE situation) ... jump UP above the fray with a $Target selected ... and at the peak height of the jump activate a cone attack against the already selected $Target, pointing the cone attack DOWN into the cluster below catching all of them in the AoE, rather than just a pie slice of them on one side. The above "hold to charge" mechanic could be used to achieve Stage 2 via a keyboard combination of:

  • Jump Up
  • Immediately begin "hold to charge" keybind
  • At 1.5-3.0 seconds into "hold to charge" near the apex of the unassisted jump up, release the "hold to charge" keybind creating a "move to slam" teleport from the apex of the jump into the $Target that affects almost ALL hostiles clustered around the original position on the ground thanks to Stage 2 cone angle, creating a "poor man's PBAoE" out of the cone AoE by virtue of 3D positioning thanks to clever play by the Player. The effect would look very superheroic as a sort of "kick off from the air to slam into the ground" kind of move that knocks everyone around the $Target selected.

Huckleberry wrote:
  • Super Agility
    • Redirection seems odd for a toggled power. Does it just always deflect damage to the character's current target whenever it is active? What is the range? What if an ally is targeted or if the character has no target?

This screams "I WANT to be at the center of a circular firing squad!" to me.
Essentially what you would have the power "do" is a kind of "RNG Confuse" type of effect contingent upon Missing the PC, contingent upon relative positioning.

  • IF a hostile attack Misses ... THEN any hostiles within range of the attack on a line angled from attacker to the $Target may have been hit by the attack instead of the intended $Target.

What you functionally wind up with is a Friendly Fire Isn't kind of power that causes hostiles which normally are NOT subject to "friendly fire" (which isn't) to become legal $Targets for "friendly fire" (which isn't) from their allies.
They try to hit YOU but wind up hitting each other instead (because you're just that Super Agility evasive).

The primary use for this kind of thing would be against AoE attacks.
Think spray 'n' pray Full Auto cone burst attacks that MISS your PC and succeed in gunning down "everyone else except YOU" in the cone of effect (you dodge the bullets, but the baddies don't).
Same deal with AoE attacks.
YOU dodge the grenade ... but none of the baddies around you do, so they take the effects of the attack.

So the effect winds up being kind of like a RNG Confuse If Missed kind of deal ... and if an attack Misses YOU, that doesn't automatically mean that it will Hit your opponents (still need to roll to hit them too) ... but it does create the opportunity for "Jackie Chan makes them fight each other" swirling melee situations where the whole point is using the opponents' attacks against each other.

Of course, this then means that the Super Agility type "causes the most damage" when surrounded by lots of crunchies ... handing off their damage to each other ... rather than when facing the Big Bad™ solo in a mano-a-mano style in which there's no opportunity to leverage the attacks of lower skilled crunchies against their leader. So in that circumstance Redirection would be useful against massed attacks (particularly when surrounded for the Circular Firing Squad effect) and almost useless against single opponents.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Tannim222
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I'm ashamed to say it has taken me this long, but I have just completed a

DEEP DIVE INTO THE POWER SETS

I'm going to be listing these comments in the order that the power sets are listed in the Avatar Builder.
Guardian

  • Sentinel
    • Preservation
      • Physical Protection is the 2nd power provided. It provides protection only against physical attacks. As such, I recommend mission designers consider this when designing the earlier missions for which this may be the only protection power available.

Early game play mostly deals with physical typed effects.

Huckleberry wrote:
  • Barrier Generation
    • What is a "Long Area of Effect?" Is that an AoE centered on the caster with a long range? Is is just a large ground-targeted AoE? Is it a narrow stripe extending from the caster?
  • This is a descriptor the length of the radial area effect. The power is actually a summoned object at a location however.

    Huckleberry wrote:
  • Strategy
    • Increase Morale currently provides a morale buff to the party when an ally is downed. This could lead to some allies being more valuable when downed than contributing. I suggest an alternative such as Increase the party morale boost for every attack against the targeted ally and the morale boost slowly dissipates if no attacks made against that ally. If the ally is downed the boost ends.
  • An increase per attack targeted would have to be so incredibly small because of how the outputs could stack or it would start off strong and have severe diminishing returns. The heal is certainly a noticeable effect from a downed ally. The modelling suggests that the rest of the outputs don't compare from one to multiple available team mates. Its only at the extremes when this will be truly noticeable. But it also will be difficult to maintain as downed characters don't receive rewards as a penalty. The benefit exists to help in a difficult situation hopefully well enough to get that downed ally or a few back quickly and safely.

    Huckleberry wrote:
  • Vampiric Regeneration
    • There are a number of abilities in this power set and others with a comment like "... as long as you can maintain this Ability." Does this mean it is a channeled ability? Does this mean there is a power cost to it? Is it a toggled ability? And if it is toggled, does this mean it can be interrupted?
  • The Power Set should be called Vampiric Emanation if you're talking about the Support Set. There is one power that specifically describes that it provides defense vs control attacks for as long as you leave this power switched on. This is to describe that the power is a type of toggle we call a Switch. Switch powers stay active at all times, but reduce the total amount of Power your character has available to use while the power is Switched on.

    Huckleberry wrote:

    Operator

    • Director
      • Gravity Control
        • Heavy Impact. There is an alternate activation for the KNOCK effect for this power and every other KNOCK effect that can knock BACK. How do you envision the alternate activation working?

    There are a number of possibilities that are being discussed. One is alternate mouse button (for example, right click) that would make this automatic. Another is that it will be in an option in some menu the player sets and forgets. Someone wants to make it a Refinement, but Refinements aren't meant for this purpose and it can be viewed as something to be desired that players "have to get".

    Huckleberry wrote:

    Enforcer

    • Gladiator
      • Tactical Combat
        • Each ability has three combo activations: 1, 2 and 3. I understand this to be that there is a three-hit combo rotation for this powerset. Am I correct in understanding that any such ability will have its first effect when it is used as the first hit of the combo, its second effect when used for the second hit of a combo, and its third effect when used for the third hit of the combo; thus allowing the player to use different abilities for the first, second and third hits of the combo depending on which effects they want to create?

    This set is being reworked. Initially, combo 1, 2, and 3 were based on momentum generated. None of the powers did anything but damage until a certain momentum threshold was achieved. Then when the third effect was unlocked, it was a proc which is added to the next attack you trigger.

    The set just didn't work well in modelling, so it is being simplified to play testing. Right now, each power's combo 1 effect is a standard additional effect with the damage effect. Combo 2 is unlocked at a specific momentum gate. Combo 1 occurs if any Combo 2 proc is active with the use of the power.

    Huckleberry wrote:
  • Tactical Awareness states that "all combo effects trigger at combo 3 while this power is active." Does this mean that the effects of the first and second hits of a combo are not activated and only the effects of hit #3 are in effect for each ability used, regardless of the sequence of the combo rotation?
  • What this power does is bypass the Momentum requirement for the Combo 2 effect to trigger (which in turn allows you to trigger combo 1 effects).

    Huckleberry wrote:
  • Massive Melee
    • All but two of the abilities in this power set have a shorter cast time the more momentum the character has. Is the starting (slowest) cast time with zero momentum the listed cast time, or is the listed cast time the shortest it can get? It seems the listed cast times are on par with the other cast times listed for other power sets.
  • Massive Melee powers that use Momentum to speed up their cast times start off with the Slow speed cast times we use for attacks. They will speed up from there with Momentum.

    Huckleberry wrote:
  • The other two abilities do not have their cast times listed. In fact there are 16 abilities across all the power sets that do not have a cast time listed but should (not counting the permanent abilities of the Stalwart archetype)
  • Demolish and Massive Annihilation and a few of the others procc different effects depending on the amount of momentum the character has. The UI developer is going to need to display when the threshold is reached somehow so the player knows what effects will procc when
  • All powers that have require a key input for activation should have a cast time. Demolish is listed as Cast Time: Fast, Massive Annihilation has Cast Time: Slow. Yes the UI developer will need to provide a visual queue.

    Huckleberry wrote:

    Ranger

    • Partisan
      • Force Blast
        • Force Blast Shares the same name as the power set. This could lead to confusion and they should probably not have the same name. The same problem exists for Vampiric Blast and Psychic Blast.
        • Focused Blast and Focused Pulse have nothing in common with each other, despite their names suggesting they should. It sounds like blast should be a single target or area effect with a certain characteristic and the pulse would be a cone-shaped version of it, or something like that. instead the blast is a single target knock down/back while the pulse is a single target push with a damage over time and a debuff. And Force Torrent is the cone shaped push with a DoT and disorient debuff. I recommend you rearrange these names so they make more logical sense in relation to each other.

    Other games do this all the time and it doesn't cause problems. It shouldn't here either.

    Huckleberry wrote:
  • Atrophic Blast
    • Many of the abilities in this power set state that they attack with a Damage over Time leaving the enemy with a different Damage over Time effect. I don't think this is what you meant to say. I think you meant to say it attacks with a certain amount of damage, and then leaves the enemy with a damage over time effect, correct?
  • Nope. 2 different Damage over Time effects happening.

    Huckleberry wrote:
  • Psychic Blast
    • Both Psychic Blast and Synaptic Feedback cause sleep and also damage the enemy. And Psywave charms and damages the enemy. This is counter to what most MMO players have experienced. We expect sleep and charm spells to be broken when the target suffers damage. Will this not be the case in CoT?
  • The damage is applied first, then the effect occurs. Charmed enemies can be damaged for the duration of the charm. Slept enemies can be awakened if damaged again. The Sleep effect should reapply if no other damage occurs again for the duration after a very brief moment.

    Huckleberry wrote:

    Stalwart

    • The Stalwart Archetype has a lot of abilities with the permanent tag. I understand that to mean these abilities' effects apply as soon as the player selects them for the character, and then have no further activation. They are, in fact, permanent but can be augmented and refined and mastered as any other ability?

    Permanent abilities are "always on" (unless the character is defeated) or otherwise suppressed (by say a control effect). They do not have a key input for activation. The can be improved with Augments.

    Huckleberry wrote:
  • Many of the power sets in the Stalwart archetype have no offensive abilities whatsoever. They all seem to have at least one passive damaging ability, like deflecting or such, but in my opinion this is inadequate. I understand that Stalwarts are going to have to rely on their Secondary power sets to provide their offensive capabilities, but you are missing out on some great potential here.
  • This is by intention. If protection sets provide more offensive capability, they in turn have less direct protective capability. For every offensive power option you place in a set, it has one less location for a protection slot. Power Sets are designed on a curve for performance. Each Tier having a certain range of output it can be (or should be) designed with for balance throughout levels. Now it is possible to say, have a set where the alternate power choices offer a protection power for one choice and an offensive power for the other. For launch, these sets should mostly remain as designed barring tweaks for balance. The future holds more possibilities.

    Huckleberry]
  • Solid Form
    • What happens to the deflected damage done by Deflective Armor if the character is targeting an enemy outside melee range, if the character is currently targeting an ally, or if the character has no current target when the damage is deflected?
  • {/quote}

    Deflect and Reflect effects are being reworked for ease of play and design. Not that they can't be designed as intended, just unnecessarily complex. Deflection is our mechanic for damage that occurs when a melee attacks lands on a target with a Deflect effect active. Other games may call this barrier damage for example.

    [quote=Huckleberry

    wrote:

  • Atrophic Aura
    • Atrophic Stealth actually has nothing to do with stealth or concealment. It needs a name change.
  • The power's name should be Atrophic Sheath.

    Huckleberry wrote:
  • Atrophic Empowerment buffs Energy type abilities only. Yes I understand that this buffs the DoT caused by this power set's abilities, but what about those of the secondary power set? Since Bulwarks do their primary damage with their secondary power sets, this seems to make any secondary power set choice that does not include energy type a poor choice.
  • [/]

    Atrophic Empowerment should be described as a buff to all energy typed damage for a short duration. Yes, certain combos won't benefit as much. This isn't a blanket damage buff you find in the melee and ranged offense sets. Use with discretion. Also, just because a power set starts off with one damage type means that it will always remain that way. There are special improves which go into the Power Set Socket and one possibility for this is a Power Set Augment that changes the damage type of an offense set.


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    Tannim222 wrote:

    This set is being reworked. Initially, combo 1, 2, and 3 were based on momentum generated. None of the powers did anything but damage until a certain momentum threshold was achieved. Then when the third effect was unlocked, it was a proc which is added to the next attack you trigger.

    The set just didn't work well in modelling, so it is being simplified to play testing. Right now, each power's combo 1 effect is a standard additional effect with the damage effect. Combo 2 is unlocked at a specific momentum gate. Combo 1 occurs if any Combo 2 proc is active with the use of the power.

    ...

    What [Tactical Awareness] power does is bypass the Momentum requirement for the Combo 2 effect to trigger (which in turn allows you to trigger combo 1 effects).

    Did you mean to say that "Combo 3 in the above highlighted sentences?


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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    Huckleberry wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:

    Enforcer

    • Gladiator
      • Tactical Combat
    Tannim222 wrote:

    This set is being reworked. Initially, combo 1, 2, and 3 were based on momentum generated. None of the powers did anything but damage until a certain momentum threshold was achieved. Then when the third effect was unlocked, it was a proc which is added to the next attack you trigger.

    The set just didn't work well in modelling, so it is being simplified to play testing. Right now, each power's combo 1 effect is a standard additional effect with the damage effect. Combo 2 is unlocked at a specific momentum gate. Combo 1 occurs if any Combo 2 proc is active with the use of the power.

    ...

    What [Tactical Awareness] power does is bypass the Momentum requirement for the Combo 2 effect to trigger (which in turn allows you to trigger combo 1 effects).

    Did you mean to say that "Combo 3 in the above highlighted sentences?

    No. There isn’t a third combo that effect in the nee iteration. Initially there were 3 but the old 1 is now just part of the power’s base effects without requiring any moment to unlock them.


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    Tannim222 wrote:
    Tannim222 wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:
  • Strategy
    • Increase Morale currently provides a morale buff to the party when an ally is downed. This could lead to some allies being more valuable when downed than contributing. I suggest an alternative such as Increase the party morale boost for every attack against the targeted ally and the morale boost slowly dissipates if no attacks made against that ally. If the ally is downed the boost ends.
  • An increase per attack targeted would have to be so incredibly small because of how the outputs could stack or it would start off strong and have severe diminishing returns. The heal is certainly a noticeable effect from a downed ally. The modelling suggests that the rest of the outputs don't compare from one to multiple available team mates. Its only at the extremes when this will be truly noticeable. But it also will be difficult to maintain as downed characters don't receive rewards as a penalty. The benefit exists to help in a difficult situation hopefully well enough to get that downed ally or a few back quickly and safely.

    The thought had occurred to me as well to make this a rez with a party buff, but that would be even worse. Now you'll have a party deliberately sacrifice someone just so they can rez them and get a party boost. No matter how you slice this one, Tannim, your players will abuse it. Any time you give your players an opportunity to benefit from another player's misfortune they will take you up on it.

    Regarding a party buff for a character being attacked, it would be easy to cap the buff to proc'ing every x seconds up to a maximum value of y.


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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    Tannim222 wrote:
    Tannim222 wrote:

    This set is being reworked. Initially, combo 1, 2, and 3 were based on momentum generated. None of the powers did anything but damage until a certain momentum threshold was achieved. Then when the third effect was unlocked, it was a proc which is added to the next attack you trigger.

    The set just didn't work well in modelling, so it is being simplified to play testing. Right now, each power's combo 1 effect is a standard additional effect with the damage effect. Combo 2 is unlocked at a specific momentum gate. Combo 1 occurs if any Combo 2 proc is active with the use of the power.

    ...

    What [Tactical Awareness] power does is bypass the Momentum requirement for the Combo 2 effect to trigger (which in turn allows you to trigger combo 1 effects).

    ...

    There isn’t a third combo that effect in the ne[w] iteration. Initially there were 3 but the old 1 is now just part of the power’s base effects without requiring any moment to unlock them.

    OK. I think I've got it. So the sequence would go something like this:

    1. Attack does damage, momentum increases
    2. Attack does damage, momentum increases and exceeds the Combo 2 momentum threshold
    3. Attack does damage and activates the Combo 2 bonus effect, momentum increases
    4. Attack does damage and activates the Combo 1 bonus effect (because the Combo 2 bonus is active) and the Combo 2 bonus effect, momentum increases
    5. all subsequent attacks do damage and activate the Combo 1 and Combo 2 bonus effects until momentum dips below the Combo 2 momentum threshold
    6. repeat

    Also, just wanted to verify that combos will proc regardless of which power you use, so long as the power is a combo power. In other words, we won't need to keep spamming the same ability to achieve a combo, correct?


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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    Huckleberry wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:
    Tannim222 wrote:

    This set is being reworked. Initially, combo 1, 2, and 3 were based on momentum generated. None of the powers did anything but damage until a certain momentum threshold was achieved. Then when the third effect was unlocked, it was a proc which is added to the next attack you trigger.

    The set just didn't work well in modelling, so it is being simplified to play testing. Right now, each power's combo 1 effect is a standard additional effect with the damage effect. Combo 2 is unlocked at a specific momentum gate. Combo 1 occurs if any Combo 2 proc is active with the use of the power.

    ...

    What [Tactical Awareness] power does is bypass the Momentum requirement for the Combo 2 effect to trigger (which in turn allows you to trigger combo 1 effects).

    ...

    There isn’t a third combo that effect in the ne[w] iteration. Initially there were 3 but the old 1 is now just part of the power’s base effects without requiring any moment to unlock them.

    OK. I think I've got it. So the sequence would go something like this:

    1. Attack does damage, momentum increases
    2. Attack does damage, momentum increases and exceeds the Combo 2 momentum threshold
    3. Attack does damage and activates the Combo 2 bonus effect, momentum increases
    4. Attack does damage and activates the Combo 1 bonus effect (because the Combo 2 bonus is active) and the Combo 2 bonus effect, momentum increases
    5. all subsequent attacks do damage and activate the Combo 1 and Combo 2 bonus effects until momentum dips below the Combo 2 momentum threshold
    6. repeat

    Also, just wanted to verify that combos will proc regardless of which power you use, so long as the power is a combo power. In other words, we won't need to keep spamming the same ability to achieve a combo, correct?

    Combo 1 costs momentum which will reset the ability to make another combo happen right after a combo occurs.

    You won’t need to just spam one or two powers no. And the way momentum is designed to be built from attacks (don’t forget being attacked), but just sticking with attacks here is that the value of momentum is based on the timing factors so there is parity of momentum gained between fast recharging attacks and slower recharging attacks. And improving the recharge speed is accounted for as well.


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    Tannim222 wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:
  • Atrophic Blast
    • Many of the abilities in this power set state that they attack with a Damage over Time leaving the enemy with a different Damage over Time effect. I don't think this is what you meant to say. I think you meant to say it attacks with a certain amount of damage, and then leaves the enemy with a damage over time effect, correct?
  • Nope. 2 different Damage over Time effects happening.

    One question: WHY? This is baffling. I can't think of any mechanical reason for the same attack to layer on two different DoT by design. since both DoT occur from the same ability, there would be no way to differentiate them from each other when it comes to augments, refinements and masteries. One DoT that is the sum of both DoT values would make more sense.

    I could understand if a player added a poison effect to an existing bleed attack, for example, if you don't mind me using easily conceptual imagery. But the base attack mechanic in that case would be the bleed, and the poison would apply versus a separate poison-resistance stat. Are you saying that every attack in this set is both a bleed and a poison? In other words are you saying both DoT will be different damage types?


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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    Tannim222 wrote:
    Tannim222 wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:
    Tannim222 wrote:

    This set is being reworked. Initially, combo 1, 2, and 3 were based on momentum generated. None of the powers did anything but damage until a certain momentum threshold was achieved. Then when the third effect was unlocked, it was a proc which is added to the next attack you trigger.

    The set just didn't work well in modelling, so it is being simplified to play testing. Right now, each power's combo 1 effect is a standard additional effect with the damage effect. Combo 2 is unlocked at a specific momentum gate. Combo 1 occurs if any Combo 2 proc is active with the use of the power.

    ...

    What [Tactical Awareness] power does is bypass the Momentum requirement for the Combo 2 effect to trigger (which in turn allows you to trigger combo 1 effects).

    ...

    There isn’t a third combo that effect in the ne[w] iteration. Initially there were 3 but the old 1 is now just part of the power’s base effects without requiring any moment to unlock them.

    OK. I think I've got it. So the sequence would go something like this:

    1. Attack does damage, momentum increases
    2. Attack does damage, momentum increases and exceeds the Combo 2 momentum threshold
    3. Attack does damage and activates the Combo 2 bonus effect, momentum increases
    4. Attack does damage and activates the Combo 1 bonus effect (because the Combo 2 bonus is active) and the Combo 2 bonus effect, momentum increases
    5. all subsequent attacks do damage and activate the Combo 1 and Combo 2 bonus effects until momentum dips below the Combo 2 momentum threshold
    6. repeat

    Also, just wanted to verify that combos will proc regardless of which power you use, so long as the power is a combo power. In other words, we won't need to keep spamming the same ability to achieve a combo, correct?

    Combo 1 costs momentum which will reset the ability to make another combo happen right after a combo occurs.

    You won’t need to just spam one or two powers no. And the way momentum is designed to be built from attacks (don’t forget being attacked), but just sticking with attacks here is that the value of momentum is based on the timing factors so there is parity of momentum gained between fast recharging attacks and slower recharging attacks. And improving the recharge speed is accounted for as well.

    I swear I think you're deliberately trying to confuse us. At some point, someone will have to describe how this power set works for Joe Schmoe the weekend gamer.


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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    Tannim222 wrote:
    Tannim222 wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:

    [*]Many of the power sets in the Stalwart archetype have no offensive abilities whatsoever. They all seem to have at least one passive damaging ability, like deflecting or such, but in my opinion this is inadequate. I understand that Stalwarts are going to have to rely on their Secondary power sets to provide their offensive capabilities, but you are missing out on some great potential here.

    This is by intention. If protection sets provide more offensive capability, they in turn have less direct protective capability. For every offensive power option you place in a set, it has one less location for a protection slot. Power Sets are designed on a curve for performance. Each Tier having a certain range of output it can be (or should be) designed with for balance throughout levels. Now it is possible to say, have a set where the alternate power choices offer a protection power for one choice and an offensive power for the other. For launch, these sets should mostly remain as designed barring tweaks for balance. The future holds more possibilities.

    I'm still not convinced it's a good idea for a number of reasons.
    First, without an offensive ability of their own, Stalwarts will just play like a weaker Enforcer. Identical in every way, but doing less damage. If you give Stalwarts just one thematic offensive ability, you've elevated their gameplay, especially if that offensive ability has a utility to it.
    Second, there's no real reason why a defensive power set should have 11 (or 9?) different variations of the same defensive ability. You could EASILY consolidate two of them, leaving you with 10 (or 8?) defensive abilities to make room for one thematic offensive utility ability.
    Third, I'm trying to imagine what it would be like playing a Stalwart (and Gladiator to a lesser extent because defense isn't as important to them). It seems that keeping eleven (or nine?) different defensive abilities active, in addition to using all my secondary abilities to attack when they're up, would be worse than playing whack-a-mole with my hot-keys. Do you honestly expect your players to all be able to play "Flight of the Bumblebee" on their keyboards?
    (edit: In all fairness I was exaggerating a bit on point three above. There are several abilities in each power set that are actually toggled powers so whack-a-mole would be not as bad as I made it out to seem)


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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    Huckleberry wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:

    One question: WHY? This is baffling. I can't think of any mechanical reason for the same attack to layer on two different DoT by design. since both DoT occur from the same ability, there would be no way to differentiate them from each other when it comes to augments, refinements and masteries. One DoT that is the sum of both DoT values would make more sense.

    They aren’t layered on top of one another’s. The attack that applies a DoT as it’s main affect is going to be a very high value compared to the additional dot affect which continues to occur after the main effect ceases.

    There is zero need for Augments, Refinements, or Mastery Powers to differentiate between the two effects.

    Huckleberry wrote:

    I swear I think you're deliberately trying to confuse us. At some point, someone will have to describe how this power set works for Joe Schmoe the weekend gamer.

    Use powers and get attacked to build momentum. Tactical combat powers will do damage and have some form of additional effect natively.

    Momentum builds unlocking a combo effect which is applied to your next attack. That attack Procs the first combo effect and also applies an additional effect on the target.

    Mix and match Procs with base effects or additional combo effects as desired (some of these effects can stack with each other for greater output or have situational benefits).


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    Tannim222 wrote:
    Tannim222 wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:

    I swear I think you're deliberately trying to confuse us. At some point, someone will have to describe how this power set works for Joe Schmoe the weekend gamer.

    Use powers and get attacked to build momentum. Tactical combat powers will do damage and have some form of additional effect natively.

    Momentum builds unlocking a combo effect which is applied to your next attack. That attack Procs the first combo effect and also applies an additional effect on the target.

    Mix and match Procs with base effects or additional combo effects as desired (some of these effects can stack with each other for greater output or have situational benefits).

    I know your heart's in the right place. You are certainly trying to be responsive, and you should get credit for that. But as long as your goal is to be concise, clarity will always take a second seat. We need a response with clarity as a goal, not brevity. Maybe now isn't the best time for that since it seems this power set is still a work in progress.


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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    Huckleberry wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:

    First, without an offensive ability of their own, Stalwarts will just play like a weaker Enforcer. Identical in every way, but doing less damage. If you give Stalwarts just one thematic offensive ability, you've elevated their gameplay, especially if that offensive ability has a utility to it.
    Second, there's no real reason why a defensive power set should have 11 (or 9?) different variations of the same defensive ability. You could EASILY consolidate two of them, leaving you with 10 (or 8?) defensive abilities to make room for one thematic offensive utility ability.
    Third, I'm trying to imagine what it would be like playing a Stalwart (and Gladiator to a lesser extent because defense isn't as important to them). It seems that keeping eleven (or nine?) different defensive abilities active, in addition to using all my secondary abilities to attack when they're up, would be worse than playing whack-a-mole with my hot-keys. Do you honestly expect your players to all be able to play "Flight of the Bumblebee" on their keyboards?
    (edit: In all fairness I was exaggerating a bit on point three above. There are several abilities in each power set that are actually toggled powers so whack-a-mole would be not as bad as I made it out to seem)

    First, one could say an enforcer is playing a weaker Stalwart. And Enforcers will benefit further from these offensive options. Many of their Mastery Sets deal with damage outputs or using damage effects.
    Second, you can't "easily consolidate" powers. Each tier has a range of possible outputs for performance. In order to "manipulate" the performance curve (give more output) there has to be additional trade offs to the power functions. We should be doing our best to avoid redesigning functional protection sets around having offensive effects. See below for Atrophic Aura.
    Third, this is an at least an exaggeration, at worst its hyperbole. And yet, you want to add for ACTIVE requirements to Protection sets in order to make them perform better offensively....

    Atrophic Aura, for example has some powers which apply additional effects for damage output. Looking strictly at the sustainability of the set, it natively is one of the lowest performers. This set has to leverage its offensive capability to maintain itself.

    In the future, we can explore adding options to sets where one has to choose between an offensive capability and a defensive one. We aren't going to make it a "hard rule" that this has to be in every single protection set.


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    Huckleberry wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:
    Tannim222 wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:

    I swear I think you're deliberately trying to confuse us. At some point, someone will have to describe how this power set works for Joe Schmoe the weekend gamer.

    Use powers and get attacked to build momentum. Tactical combat powers will do damage and have some form of additional effect natively.

    Momentum builds unlocking a combo effect which is applied to your next attack. That attack Procs the first combo effect and also applies an additional effect on the target.

    Mix and match Procs with base effects or additional combo effects as desired (some of these effects can stack with each other for greater output or have situational benefits).

    I know your heart's in the right place. You are certainly trying to be responsive, and you should get credit for that. But as long as your goal is to be concise, clarity will always take a second seat. We need a response with clarity as a goal, not brevity. Maybe now isn't the best time for that since it seems this power set is still a work in progress.

    Bear in mind two things.
    First, once we have all of this on a graphical interface, it's going to be a lot easier to both read and explain.
    Second, we haven't even started any real testing of these systems. A lot could change and is likely to. It's probably too early to ask for in depth explanations of all the mechanic's exact numbers. All Tannim can do is give a general idea of what the plan is until we get some real testing done and see what kind of numbers they return.

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    Tannim222 wrote:
    Tannim222 wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:

    First, without an offensive ability of their own, Stalwarts will just play like a weaker Enforcer. Identical in every way, but doing less damage. If you give Stalwarts just one thematic offensive ability, you've elevated their gameplay, especially if that offensive ability has a utility to it.

    First, one could say an enforcer is playing a weaker Stalwart. And Enforcers will benefit further from these offensive options. Many of their Mastery Sets deal with damage outputs or using damage effects.

    You kind of helped make my point for me.

    Without any offensive powers of their own, A Stalwart will play as a weaker version of whatever their secondary powers will be. In this case, a Bulwark will play as an Enforcer. There is currently NO DIFFERENCE between the offensive capabilities of an Enforcer and a Bulwark, except that the Enforcer's offensive abilities will hit harder. You've graciously brought up the Gladiator, which uses the same two power sets as the Bulwark, just reversed in priority. Between the fifty(50) possible combinations of power sets between Bulwarks and Gladiators, two there are only five(5) different offensive play styles. FIVE. If you give the Bulwark one, just one, offensive utility ability, then you've at least multiplied the possible offensive play styles between Gladiators and Bulwarks from five (5) to Twenty-Five (25)!


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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    Stalwarts will also have

    Stalwarts will also have access to the Assault and Manipulation Secondary Sets to further differentiate them from Enforcers.

    We aren’t going to redesign all of the protection sets to each having more offensive capability.

    That isn’t hat they are for.


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    Tannim222 wrote:
    Tannim222 wrote:

    Stalwarts will also have access to the Assault and Manipulation Secondary Sets to further differentiate them from Enforcers.

    Yes, we acknowledge that there are no archetypes with a primary powerset in the Assault category or in the Manipulation category. But that doesn't change the fact that of the 50 possible combinations of Bulwark and Gladiator power sets, you are providing only 5 offensive play styles.

    (edit: in all fairness, and by my own admission, I thought the offensive capabilities you have already provided for Atrophic Aura and Solid Form are adequate. So, there really wouldn't be only 5 offensive playstyles, there would be 10. But still, giving the other three Stalwart power sets an offensive ability would expand that to 25 offensive combinations.)

    I acknowledge that at this point you're not going to change this, but please keep it in mind.


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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    Another thing I found to be

    Another thing I found to be potentially confusing was the use of the word "Power." Because "Power" is the term for the abilities themselves as well as the term for the resource consumed by the abilities, there are instances in which the word is used several times in the same sentence each time with a different meaning.

    For example, this ability description:

    Quote:

    You create a manifestation of your powers to fight by your side. Many of Power Monger's attacks will debuff its enemies' power recovery and can also be improved when used against targets with their power recovery debuffed.

    Would you consider changing the name of abilities to "Abilities" and limit the word "power" to the resource consumed by abilities?

    That may be too much to change, so perhaps consider the opposite. Perhaps change the name of the resource from "Power" to "Vigor" or "Might" or "oomph" instead. Sadly Energy is also already taken as it is a type of damage, and stamina is overused by every other MMORPG.


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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    Well, that's like the old

    Well, that's like the old problem of 'level'. The X-level character cast a Y-level spell to defeat a Z-level foe on the Q-level of the dungeon.

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    Huckleberry wrote:
    Huckleberry wrote:

    Another thing I found to be potentially confusing was the use of the word "Power." Because "Power" is the term for the abilities themselves as well as the term for the resource consumed by the abilities, there are instances in which the word is used several times in the same sentence each time with a different meaning.

    For example, this ability description:

    Quote:

    You create a manifestation of your powers to fight by your side. Many of Power Monger's attacks will debuff its enemies' power recovery and can also be improved when used against targets with their power recovery debuffed.

    Would you consider changing the name of abilities to "Abilities" and limit the word "power" to the resource consumed by abilities?

    That may be too much to change, so perhaps consider the opposite. Perhaps change the name of the resource from "Power" to "Vigor" or "Might" or "oomph" instead. Sadly Energy is also already taken as it is a type of damage, and stamina is overused by every other MMORPG.

    I brought up the same request to refer to powers as abilities. Which is actually the engine term for practically anything we make a character do that affects the character or another character. The request was vetoed.

    The Power bar was originally called “Energy”.
    But then you have energy type, doing an needy debuff to the energy bar and even worse descriptions. We went over many, many terms.

    Power was the compromise.


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    Tannim222 wrote:
    Tannim222 wrote:

    The Power bar was originally called “Energy”.
    But then you have energy type, doing an needy debuff to the energy bar and even worse descriptions. We went over many, many terms.

    Power was the compromise.

    I feel you. I suppose we just have to make sure our context is always clear when referring to power, powers and powerful.


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
    Huckleberry
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    Another note: Stalwart

    Another note: Stalwart/Bulwark/Invulnerability: Invincible From the description, it looks like the Exhaustion effect procs whether the players cancels it early or lets the power run out. If you have not already made it so, I suggest that the exhaustion effect scales based on how long the power was active.


    I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.