Or "/em cloak", or whatever you want to call it. What I'm asking is if it would be possible at any point to make an emote that allows a player to wrap up in his cape Batman-style.
[url=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120706185954/thebatmananimatedseries/images/e/e1/BAT_IN_THE_SHADOWS.jpg]Example 1[/url]
[url=http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/all-encompassing-cape2_batman_8713.jpg]Example 2[/url]
Of course, this emote would only work if you have a cape on your costume, and could work by either stretching out the cape and re-positioning the model, or temporarily replacing it with a new model that surrounds the character and takes on the colors and design patterns of the original cape.
Either way, this animation could be useful for so many different concepts, even NPCs, that it would just make sense to include it. From mysterious dark heroes like Batman himself, to mystical, wizard-types, to villainous masterminds dictating their evil plans from the shadows, etc.
Honestly, that looks more appropriate as a specific cape style rather than an emote for all capes since the cape has to naturally be wide enough in the first place to wrap around you.
Wow, well if it's possible to make that a cape style on its own that'd be even better! I was just worried about how much extra work that'd take to actually create since it'd probably clip like crazy with most animations.
This move:
[img]https://images.rapgenius.com/deecc1f0cddd789260bf07c52611c8f9.800x450x10.gif[/img]
... is easier to do (consistently) right in 2D comics because everything is stationary, frozen in time. The artist has TOTAL control over what it looks like and how the cape behaves. Animating it in 3D is a good way to drive an artist up the wall (and then to drinking), especially if trying to do it in an MMORPG context, in which the artist's control over what happens is compromised from the get go.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Actually I can see this also being done with Wings/Other appendages.
But the point about cape/object size is also true especially with different sized characters.
My 6' tall hero and his 5' long 4' wide cape is sufficient to wrap me in.
Give that same cape to my friend who is 9' tall and 5 ' wide and its a change of undies.
So to move this along if we have the ability to resize the cape/appendage/object we can get it to a point where it can wrap around you.
Probably limit the emote to a small number such as:
- wrapped at rest (nothing special just standing here with my cape/wings around me. Sup bro?)
- wrapped defensive (a defensive stance with your cape/wings looking as if they are defending you)
- wrapped stealth (you get what I'm saying)
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
Although the idea of a "cape wrapped around the body" emote is a fairly cool idea I almost think a "wings wrapped around the body" emote might be easier to create in general.
The Devs would already have to deal with the animation of the individual wings while flying so the idea of bending them around the body in a static emote probably wouldn't take that much more effort. Unfortunately since capes are effectively a kind of "flowing cloth" it might be harder to get them to conform to the full body shape without serious clipping issues.
Here's a quick example of what a "wrapped wing" emote might look like in the process of folding around a body:
[img=300x450]https://pfirstenberg.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/ua_03.jpg[/img]
This emote might end up only looking reasonable with "organic wings" but depending on how the Devs create any version of "mechanical wings" this emote might work with them too.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'm thinking that posing might also work with Clockwork Wings (of the steampunk variety), in addition to many others. The key point however is that the wing "materials" need to be something that is inherently understood to be flexible, rather than rigid. Basically this:
[img]http://www.brendanbody.co.uk/flight_tutorial/images/owl_wing_position_small.jpg[/img]
... rather than this ...
[img]http://www.rchobbybox.co.uk/files/3685720/uploaded/f-14-wing.jpg[/img]
One is expected to flap, while the other isn't.
Define the emote animation as only being available to avatars with "flexible" wings that can meet the criteria of the expectations the emote is trying to fulfill and then let the computer do the rest.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Let's just hypothetically say that CoT will offer us 8 types of "flapping" wings (like bird wings) and 5 types of "rigid" wings (like the type Buzz Lightyear has). The exact numbers of each aren't really important. The real point I'm trying to make is that I suppose it would not be impossible to have "smart" emotes that would only activate if characters are specifically wearing, in this case, one of those 8 kinds of flapping wings.
The very idea of having certain emotes that only work based on wearing specific costume items is an interesting idea but it might lead to some complication later on if a given character ends up wearing multiple items like this. An argument could be made to allow ALL types of wings to be affected by such an emote (to make it easier for the Devs) and just let the players decide whether the types of wings they are wearing are supposed to be wrapable or not. For all we know a player may come up with a good story reason for why their supposed "rigid" wings can flex in unexpected ways - maybe they're made of alien living metal or some such.
To take it a step further it might be easier in general not to have any "smart" emotes like that and just let any emote work with any character regardless of how it looks to avoid the extra complication of being hardwired to specific costume items. We all know if the CoT Devs started limiting certain emotes to certain costume items then there would likely be some players pissed off that "emote X doesn't work with costume item Y" and there's really no advantage for the Devs to spend more time/effort arbitrarily limiting our choices when it serves no constructive purpose for the game.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Wings will already have an animation (that's what an emote is... an animation) tied to it based on the style of wing (fixed or flapping) so making an emote for specific wing styles would not really be an issue. It would actually be more difficult to have both the fixed and flapping wings use the same emote as they are likely to have a different 'armature' (this is the skeleton the model uses for animation in case anyone didn't know). The biggest issue with this (or any costume based emote) would be, as Lothic said, people getting upset they couldn't use the emote with every costume part because they did not understand how animation works.
Well the biggest issue after how difficult it would be to actually make an emote tied to a costume part. For some things (like wings or weapons) its a bit easier for others (like capes or pockets) its a lot more difficult.
Capes are much more difficult to create emotes with (check out some 'making of' videos for the arkham series to see what I mean). Capes are for the most part procedurally animated using a cloth draping simulator program. They are not usually animated using mocap or hands on animation (the way emotes are made) meaning to make an emote work for capes the cape would either have to be designed (shaped a specific way and have a certain polygon construction...not to mention 'pinning' the cape in certain ways) to 'drape' properly when the emote was applied, be hand articulated to wrap around the figure properly or the emote would need to utilize some form of shortcut (such as replacing the actual cape with one designed to work a certain way only during the emote). Its not impossible to have a players cape use a Batman or Dracula style emote but its not a simple animation like most emotes are.
Yes thank you... I'm pretty sure literally everyone bothering to read this thread knows that an "emote" is a type of "animation".
As you will see in the rest of this post just because you "can" do something in animation doesn't really mean it's a good idea to do that type of thing. In this case the concept of having "unique emotes that are only allowed for specific costume items" is far more problematic player satisfaction wise than whether the raw code will allow such a thing or not.
Again more definition of terminology that I will safely bet most people reading this didn't need.
Actually I did not say this. It does not matter whether any given player "understands how animation works" or not. The question will be "Why does emote X work with wings A but not with wings B" when there is no fundamental reason why the Devs couldn't have made emote X work with both wings A and wings B REGARDLESS of their underlying design. Do you see the difference? It doesn't really matter if 50 types of wings would each take their own type of animation to implement. The Devs would have to justify (if they even could) why they let one emote work with one of those and left the other 49 out of luck.
On to my more general response:
To my knowledge CoH had absolutely NO emotes that were specifically hardwired to any specific costume item or that required any specific type of costume item to function. To follow your trend of redundantly defining things "wings" are effectively "costume items" for the sake of this discussion. I simply believe it would be a slippery slope for a game like CoT to offer emotes that could only function with one kind of costume item, or wing type, but not another.
As a bit of a history lesson for you there was a huge amount of angst generated by the fact that the CoH Devs arbitrarily prevented certain types of costume items from being used with other kinds of items simply because THEY (not the players) decided that certain combinations "didn't look right" when in all reality a huge number of the restricted combos would have actually worked very well with clever player manipulation. Frankly the CoH Devs were far too hyper-conservative when it came to worrying about "clipping issues" and in their attempt to prevent a very small number of bad scenarios they stifled the player's ability to use many other combos that would have been very interesting.
So in the same way that the CoH Devs arbitrarily decided "costume item X would look bad with costume item Y" I think trying to limit the CoT Devs to follow the same restrictive path such as "emote A would look bad with item B" is the exact WRONG WAY to go. The K.I.S.S. principle should always lead us towards something like "any emote should be allowed to anyone regardless of the costume items they have, period" and again let the players decide if it looks too stupid to use in any single case. It actually doesn't really matter if rigid wings would use a different "armature" for its animation than flapping wings would because if the emote in question generates a "bad" and/or "dumb" reaction with any given costume item (based on its underlying design) the players themselves can simply choose not to use that emote with that type of wing in the future.
The Devs of CoT simply don't have the time or resources necessary for them to make sure "every single costume item doesn't clip with any other costume item" or that "every single emote works in all scenarios". Imagine how convoluted things would get code-wise if every emote had to maintain a connection to a costume item database that would dictate when it could or could not be used - imagine how often such a system would break down or become bugged after every patch or addition of new costume items. I'm sorry but what you're suggesting by favoring the idea of "limited use emotes" simply has far too many cons versus the pros involved.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I don't see why that would be a problem.
[url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Costume_Piece:_Rocket_Boots]Rocket Boots[/url] in City of Heroes would "ignite and burn" any time the avatar engaged a Fly power. It was a costume part that specifically keyed an emote (which just so happened to be use of a type of Power).
[img]http://paragonwiki.com/w/images//2/2c/Rocket_Boots_01.jpg[/img]
Likewise, Wings would flap repeatedly if a Fly power was active. But if a Fly power was not active and the character jumped, the wings would "deploy" as if to "glide" the character into a landing (even though you were falling as normal) and then once on the ground the wings would fold up again so long as you stayed on the ground.
If City of Heroes could do it ... I'm thinking City of Titans might be capable of it too ...
[img]http://paragonwiki.com/w/images//b/b2/Wings_Tech.jpg[/img]
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I wanted that clear because I wanted everyone to think of emotes in the same terms they think of any animation in the game...be it power animations, walk cycles or emotes. Just so they can understand that a emote is subject to the same limitations as any other animation.
I addressed that (and you commented on it) later in the post. I do not consider the issue of limiting emotes to costume types to be a game breaker. Many MMO's have emotes that are limited in some way, even CoH had emotes that only worked under specific conditions (flight poses). So a few that fit iconic superhero images such as cape or wing emotes are unlikely to cause massive player grumbling. Especially if this was one of the micro transaction items that those who actually want the emote can get.
Possibly. But some of your assumptions show not everyone gets this.
The 'because' part was mine. And you are proving it correct here. The fundamental reason why one emote wont work with both fixed and flapping wing is because both wings will not have the same armature. To make the wing bend in the ways the pictures in here show there needs to be joints along the wing. A fixed wing will not have the joints in the same places so the emote simply will not work on it. Its also HIGHLY unlikely there will be 50 different wing models....it will be only a few and the variation will come from the texture and bmps they use. So those 50 wings are more like 2 or 3. Let me explain that further....both of the small wings in CoH (cherub and bat) were the same model with different skins. I can't check right now but I think the large leathery wings and feathered wings were another model with different skins. This means an emote designed for the small bat wings would work with the cherub wings but not with the feathered or leathery ones and vice versa.
But lets say you are right... each wing is separate and the animation wont work for any others. Then the devs should have an animation for each that works off the same emote command. Just to be clear.... one player has feathered wings the other has steampunk...they both type /e wingwrap and the emote for that wing type executes.The devs will only have to 'justify' the emote if there isn't one for every similar wing type and if thats the case they should not bother with any.
These wings will already have different animations tied to them. So wings are not just a 'costume item', they are a separate animated model. They will behave different in many situations. CoH had wings that behaved different based on actions by the character and which wing type they had. If you take those things into account then consider an animation based on costume type its not that hard to make the leap to an emote for a specific costume part. And to reiterate... these emotes could be sold. Not exactly a slippery slope.
The only 'huge angst' was over butt capes. Minor grumbling occurred about not being able to wear two items from the same category (say the shoulder category) even when they did not interact. This was because of the limits in the way they designed the costume designer. I think your history lesson is a bit colored by personal opinion.
And this is why I pointed out armature. Its not a matter of the emote 'looking bad' its a matter of the emote simply not working.... because it can't without the same armature.
Making an emote tied to a costume part would be like...I dunno... swapping weapons in a powerset, fly animations, interaction with environment animations or maybe be most like the all but promised weapon drawing animations.
In the end, getting cape, wing or any emote that interacts with a costume part is going to depend more on resources than any of the issues you have presented here.
My entire quote explained how wings were fairly simple....its when you get into the proceduraly animated costume parts like capes (or hair) that the difficulty mounts.
While rocket boots are not exactly animated (the flames are essentially an aura) the piston boots did have an animation (I think....been a while) so I get what you are saying and agree that not all costume part emotes would be prohibitive.
The primary problem I can foresee with procedural costume animation is the assumption of a "ground state" from which to begin the animation at. All kinds of things could potentially interfere with that basic assumption ... some of which are environmental, but some are also the province of Player actions (and movement). Something that goes a long way towards ensuring such an assumption of starting state involves Rooting the avatar before beginning the animation, so that the Avatar can't be wandering around while the animation plays out. As for environmental factors ... there's no escaping them completely. You just have to write the animation in such a way that it doesn't "fail" (hilariously) if something gets tangled or hung up or otherwise fails to move as intended/expected. Simplest example of that kind of thing is seeing a cape with a twist in it, which barring a movement to "clear the error" will remain twisted around on itself.
The real "test" here though is to actually just go ahead and try it. Aphorisms about Combat vs Enemy would seem to apply ... simply because this sort of request simply CAN'T take place in a (gaming) vacuum every single time, in perpetuity. It has to happen in context. That means lots and lots of testing trying to make it NOT work right, so as to learn from that example and iterate in such a way as "evolve" the emote away from that unfortunate confluence of possible circumstances.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
True, this could be solved by including a 'zeroing' of the costume part before the animation takes place. It could be as jarring as an instantaneous refresh of the part or as subtle as the inclusion of a wind force on the part.
In truth the best way to ensure an animation for procedurals is to cheat and use a shortcut. Something like replacing the part from a procedural to a rigged part as soon as the animation begins. Much like how your model got replaced when you typed /e pumpkin.... except this time its just the cape that gets swapped. Still not easy implement or glitch proof, but a lot easier and more reliable than trying to work with a procedural animation in a situation like this.... well as far as I know... U4 and Maya might have ways to make it easier I am not familiar with... I use blender, netfabb, scupltris and a copy of maya from 2003.
I still doubt that cape emotes will be seen for a long time (if ever) due to much of what you said here but emotes that work with wings or weapon draw animations could be a nice addition... especially to micro transactions.