I've been thinking a lot about how I want to use tertiaries to flesh out my characters. One big thing I'm wondering is whether or not we can use tertiaries from our same primary/secondary set.
As an example, my main character will be a Stalwart with Invulnerability/Super Strength powers. Could I use Grit as my tertiary? Or am I restricted to a non-defense tertiary since that is my primary? What about secondaries? If I went Enforcer instead, could I go Super Strength/Invulnerability with a Grit tertiary then?
Tertiaries open up a ton of possibilities and allow us to shore up weaknesses and diversify, but I hope they also allow us to specialize by double-dipping into a strength.
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The Altruist, Invulnerability/Super Strength Stalwart.
Good question because I could see myself doing this as well.
I think I remember them saying the tertiary powers are pretty much unrestricted because you only get the most basic version of whatever powerset you pull from.
My first thought was a Ranger double dipping into another blast primary that would always have an attack ready and therefore out DPS everything while chewing through the power meter like nobody's business. Then I thought it's rather possible some game balance issues would arise from that very quickly.
There are currently no limitations to taking a Tertiary Set.
Just relize that stacking similar protections has diminishing returns. If you have 65% Physical Resistance from your Stalwart Prinary and take a similar Tertiary that on the surface offers say another 25% in Physical Resistance, they are not additive when combined.
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
That's interesting. So would taking the 25% Tertiary have no effect at all because 65% is greater and it looks only at the biggest value? Or would it still add something, just not a full 25%?
Spurn all ye kindle.
Usually diminishing returns will look at both, but only apply the additional value as a scaled down amount that decreases drastically the further it goes (or the more of it you stack in this case) towards the maximum allowed for that stat.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
This is correct. If you read on the update on powers, I discuss how we design powers using a value called output. Output goes into a channel based on the effect of the power and is modified to result in the in-game value.
The more output fed through a particular channel results in a diminishing return of the in-game value.
For example: A Primary Set May have a tier 1 Power with 3 output in Physical Resistance giving it 6% Resistance.
A tier 2 power may also have the same output. Since both are in the same channel for physical resistance, they are combined but not for 12%. Instead the combined output is 6 resulting in a total of 10% physical resistance.
Now what this system does is two things: keeps stacking values of many effects in check, and lends itself to diversification.
You could have a primary with lots of physical resistance and choose to try and maximize on that with a similar tertiary, or you could get another tettiary that relies more on another type of protection whether that be a different resistance type, or not using resistance at all.
But then, you have to account for how the primary and tertiary may work together using different mechanics.
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I thought Grit was the "regeneration" powerset? It sounds like Invulnerability and Super Agility might pair well together, since they are resistance and evasion and wouldn't overlap. My other thought was to take Barrier Generation as my tertiary, but I don't like the idea reapplying buffs constantly (my main is indestructible passively, he doesn't have to do anything to become tougher).
Also, these numbers sound super low. 10% resistance? How hardy do you expect a fully-maxed out Invulnerable character to be?
The Altruist, Invulnerability/Super Strength Stalwart.
Also keep in mind that while stacking yourself a certain way for damage or defense etc while it may have diminishing returns also inherently becomes more valuable the more you stack. Even if having two mitigation abilities doesn't give full benefit, each percentage point of damage reduction has more value the higher your resistance gets. That smaller increase may still be quite effective.
This is true of other kinds of stats as well: taking additional damage increases that allows you to hit a burst breakpoint and quickly finish off a bad guy before they can present a threat is a big deal.
The question becomes if stacking yourself heavily in one direction is significantly more effective than spreading yourself out (and the reverse). We'll have to wait and see.
Thanks for the details Tannim.
Spurn all ye kindle.
I don't think those are the exact numbers but some he just pulled out of the air as an example.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
Regardless, 10% damage resistance all by itself is nearly negligible, while 10% layered with other resistances and defenses can tip a build into full-on god mode.
CoT knows what they are doing AND they are going to play test and adjust. We should be ok :).
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Yeah, the best thing to do when doubling up on tertiaries is to get different defenses.
Combine that with the mastery that gives you some defensive buffs and you could be a really tough ranger.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Grit has some regeneration in it. Check the powers page for the example powers - they don’t specifically cite regeneration.
The numbers were indeed used to provide an example.
I can’t understate the importance of also understanding the mechanics of how a set or particular powers in a set function.
Takenfor example the Invuln tier 1 a permanent power that increases its effects as you lose health.
Will grabbing some regen powers off Set this mechanic sufficiently? Consider that both mechanics require your haracter to lose health.
While regen will return that health, a power that increases resistance not protects against damage, but resistance reduces all effects be it a debuff or a control by the same type.
For some players, grabbing a regenerating Power may feel more worth it while for others it won’t.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
When this game goes live, I look forward to threads exploring the science and math of tertiary builds.
we will start out with a limited set of base powers, but with aesthetics and Tertiary builds we will have limitless possibilities. I LOVE THIS GAME!
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