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Can anyone help soothe my paranoia (The Fear of NCSoft)

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Sakura Tenshi
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Can anyone help soothe my paranoia (The Fear of NCSoft)

something I discussed with my brother when this game came up was that he seemed certain NCSoft was literally waiting for the game's release to smack it with a Cease and Desist, a lawsuit, or something form of bullplop.

Could they legally have a case against City of Titans if they wanted to spite the playerbase? (as they basically did with City of Heroes)

There is a song I hear, a melody from the past.
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Would they have a case? Not

Would they have a case? Not bloody likely. The most obvious angle, a trademark claim on the name "City of Titans", would be shaky at best, especially since they've left it unchallenged since MWM's Kickstarter first publicized it. Also, IIRC, Tyche said that they have a backup title in their pocket in case of emergency. Any other copyright claim would require NCSoft to prove that MWM is using their IP, code, or art assets, and there's no sign of that anywhere.

Would they tie MWM up in court just to bleed them with legal fees? I wouldn't put it past NCSoft's lawyers, but I doubt their executives want to antagonize western fans again after including Statesman and Ghost Widow in Master x Master backfired so spectacularly.

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Lin Chiao Feng
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Master x Master backfired?

Master x Master backfired? Wow, I’m out of the loop.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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They're closing MXM at the

They're closing MXM at the end of January. They didn't even give it half a year before they announced its "sunset."

Essentially, it only served to boost their claims on their IPs, to show that NCSoft is still "using" the characters... Which sucks for folks who hoped their copyright would expire on the CoH assets.

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"City of" is the only

"City of" is the only portion we have in connection with "City of Heroes", Paris, France is known as the "City of Love" Los Angelo's , is known as the "City of Angels" . Philadelphia is known as the "City of Brotherly Love."
"So i don't think "City of Heroes" has a problem with the name. there are to many other "City of's" before "City of Heroes" came out.

Then there is the gambit how can the jury know what the difference of the games are and lore if they don't read the lore and play them to their full potential.

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You can read the sadness of

You can read the sadness of the comments under this video for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsCyzTkOunY

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Wow. It was also Tyrant

Wow. It was also Tyrant turned Statesman and not original Statesman.

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I don't think they're gonna

I don't think they're gonna sue us just to spite us, but I don't think they want to avoid antagonizing us, either. My impression is that they just don't give a pancake about what we think.

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They do seem to have

They do seem to have established a lack of pancakes in regards to the West.

Be Well!
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Godling wrote:
Godling wrote:

"City of" is the only portion we have in connection with "City of Heroes", Paris, France is known as the "City of Love" Los Angelo's , is known as the "City of Angels" . Philadelphia is known as the "City of Brotherly Love."
"So i don't think "City of Heroes" has a problem with the name. there are to many other "City of's" before "City of Heroes" came out.

Then there is the gambit how can the jury know what the difference of the games are and lore if they don't read the lore and play them to their full potential.

And plenty of games (some for the computer, some for phones, some board games, and even pen and paper RPG's) also using City of after. City of Steam, City of Mist, City of Brass, City of Love, City of Kings, City of Thieves, City of Fools, City of Iron, City of Gears, City of Horror, City of Remnants, City of Wonder, City of Zombies, City of Angels, City of Secrets, City of Chains, City of Abandoned Ships, City of Dear, and City of Hunger, using the first 3 pages off of a Google search.

I will note, City of Mist is also a superhero themed game, although more of a comic-noir flair.

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As long as the MWM team steer

As long as the MWM team steer clear of any explicit CoX I.P. then we will be fine.

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Heh, I thought Doc's list was

Heh, I thought Doc's list was going to end with City of Cities.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Heh, I thought Doc's list was going to end with City of Cities.

Future Sydney: A City of Cities is apparently a report on the development plans of Sydney, New South Wales. According to the text, the phrase goes back at least to 2005 as the title of the official Metropolitan Strategy.

Sorry, I just had to check. ^_^

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Ha! So, wait, Sydney is the

Ha! So, wait, Sydney is the City of Cities? Now we're veering into Dr. Seuss territory!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

As long as the MWM team steer clear of any explicit CoH/V I.P. then we will be fine.

As to the lore aspect of that statement, we've made a point of just that. We've rejected plenty of things that were close enough to be considered pushing it but still far enough away to not be a justifiable legal action. A lawsuit could still bleed us dry, so we've made a point to avoid such things in the lore.

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SisterSilicon wrote:
SisterSilicon wrote:

Would they have a case? Not bloody likely. The most obvious angle, a trademark claim on the name "City of Titans", would be shaky at best, especially since they've left it unchallenged since MWM's Kickstarter first publicized it. Also, IIRC, Tyche said that they have a backup title in their pocket in case of emergency. Any other copyright claim would require NCSoft to prove that MWM is using their IP, code, or art assets, and there's no sign of that anywhere.

Would they tie MWM up in court just to bleed them with legal fees? I wouldn't put it past NCSoft's lawyers, but I doubt their executives want to antagonize western fans again after including Statesman and Ghost Widow in Master x Master backfired so spectacularly.

Good, I was further put off by what they pulled with Master x Master.

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Here's another angle. NCSoft

Here's another angle. NCSoft is a publicly traded for profit company. Even if, for the sake of argument, they all HATED CoT, any action of significant cost in money or time against it would eventually be called out by stockholders wondering why that money and/or time had not been spent on making a profit. That can lead to executives getting fired.

Bonus angle. EA recently messed up so bad on loot boxes that lawmakers in different parts of the world are starting to scrutinize big game companies and actively considering legislation. NCSoft is wise enough to avoid the spotlight in these circumstances lest they be placed under a microscope as well.

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ThunderCAP wrote:
ThunderCAP wrote:

You can read the sadness of the comments under this video for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsCyzTkOunY

Still waiting on the day for someone to make a superhero style mmo with this type of combat and camera angles. Marvel Heroes came close, but there was no character creation. Gotta give Koreans credit, they know how to make action mmo. Even though this one backfired. it is a moba, right?

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i wonder, who is the stateman

i wonder, who is the stateman of CoT ? do we have a main character as charismatic than he ?
Anthem ? We have no pictures... Rotty ? he has even not a super hero suit :/
By now, to me, there no personification of CoT as Stateman was for CoH

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

i wonder, who is the stateman of CoT ? do we have a main character as charismatic than he ?

I would say your character...or the other players’ character. The game is about your character, your character’s story, not a foot note in one of the games’ characters’ stories.

TitansCity wrote:

Anthem ? We have no pictures...

No pictures? We have postes some. Like the one on this page.


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To follow up on Tannim's

To follow up on Tannim's response, if I may, and someone in Composition might correct me here...

Anthem has been described as the Iconic Heroic character and the "face on the box" hero, and leads the Paragons, so there are certainly parallels between her and Statesman. But she's also the successor to American Star (who died in Hurricane Atlas), who was the first officially recognized costumed superhero, and could also be compared to Statesman in that sense.

But it is explicitly intended that player characters will surpass the abilities of other non-player characters such as these in City of Titans. Player characters were clearly intended to be less powerful than Statesman or Recluse, at least throughout most of that game's history, and I think this indicates an important shift in mindset.

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Pyromantic's got it right.

Pyromantic's got it right.

Pyromantic wrote:

Anthem has been described as the Iconic Heroic character and the "face on the box" hero, and leads the Paragons, so there are certainly parallels between her and Statesman. But she's also the successor to American Star (who died in Hurricane Atlas), who was the first officially recognized costumed superhero, and could also be compared to Statesman in that sense.

If you truly need a comparison, this is about as close as we get. We are intentionally NOT using the same hero structure as CoH did, so we don't have a true equivalent.

Pyromantic wrote:

But it is explicitly intended that player characters will surpass the abilities of other non-player characters such as these in City of Titans. Player characters were clearly intended to be less powerful than Statesman or Recluse, at least throughout most of that game's history, and I think this indicates an important shift in mindset.

Precisely. Player characters are the heroes, not the lackeys. You aren't just running around and doing the things that the hero is too good to do themselves, but you are piecing the information together and saving the day yourself.

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Just another reason I'm

Just another reason I'm convinced this is the MMO for me.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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With those previous answers,

With those previous answers, i better understand why there is, currently, no "communication" on the Paragons as it could have been with Stateman and other in CoH.
At less than one year from the game release, i was surprised that there was no really communication or teasing about the paragons or something else to "carry" the game communication towards the public :) But, now, i understand why.
Nevertheless, i find there is not enought communication around the game (advertising, teaser, etc) before the launch. (I'm not a sppecialist ^^ so maybe it's usual to not have this kind of stuff less than one year from the release)
Maybe MWM wait for the character creator release to begin advertising the game ?

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

With those previous answers, i better understand why there is, currently, no "communication" on the Paragons as it could have been with Stateman and other in CoH.
At less than one year from the game release, i was surprised that there was no really communication or teasing about the paragons or something else to "carry" the game communication towards the public :) But, now, i understand why.
Nevertheless, i find there is not enought communication around the game (advertising, teaser, etc) before the launch. (I'm not a sppecialist ^^ so maybe it's usual to not have this kind of stuff less than one year from the release)
Maybe MWM wait for the character creator release to begin advertising the game ?

As far as I can tell, yes they are since it is also when they will do their Second Chance crowd-funding run. I am also sure they have stated that they want something solid to show before they go full on marketing.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

As far as I can tell, yes they are since it is also when they will do their Second Chance crowd-funding run. I am also sure they have stated that they want something solid to show before they go full on marketing.

For MWM to market CoT at this point would be insane and suicidally counter productive. If you do anything less than blow (most) people away with shiny action visuals and "wow" them with hyped-up ingame demonstrations of features, they immediately and vocally declare "you suck" to anyone and everyone who will listen and then write you off--usually permanently.

We here on this forum are (mostly) the exceptions to this generization, and so MWM needs to be really ready to knock people's socks off before mounting any significant push outside of our community.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

As far as I can tell, yes they are since it is also when they will do their Second Chance crowd-funding run. I am also sure they have stated that they want something solid to show before they go full on marketing.

For MWM to market CoT at this point would be insane and suicidally counter productive. If you do anything less than blow (most) people away with shiny action visuals and "wow" them with hyped-up ingame demonstrations of features, they immediately and vocally declare "you suck" to anyone and everyone who will listen and then write you off--usually permanently.

We here on this forum are (mostly) the exceptions to this generization, and so MWM needs to be really ready to knock people's socks off before mounting any significant push outside of our community.

I couldn't agree more. Personally, I don't think launch hype will do us as much good as word of mouth longevity anyway.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

For MWM to market CoT at this point would be insane and suicidally counter productive. If you do anything less than blow (most) people away with shiny action visuals and "wow" them with hyped-up ingame demonstrations of features, they immediately and vocally declare "you suck" to anyone and everyone who will listen and then write you off--usually permanently.

There are lots of ways to market a game that does not require a visual wow factor.
I could give many examples of games that got people excited years before release without any in game footage shown. Even CoH kicked off it's marketing with a fairly bland out of game image of Statesman and a bunch of details in a gaming magazine article.
One only needs a quick google search to see that every marketing advice article's first point is 'Don't wait too long to market'.
It's ultimately up to MWM to decide when they are ready to make a marketing push but I for one hope they don't wait until they have shiny graphics and completed in game demonstrations of features.

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

There are lots of ways to market a game that does not require a visual wow factor.
I could give many examples of games that got people excited years before release without any in game footage shown. Even CoH kicked off it's marketing with a fairly bland out of game image of Statesman and a bunch of details in a gaming magazine article.
One only needs a quick google search to see that every marketing advice article's first point is 'Don't wait too long to market'.
It's ultimately up to MWM to decide when they are ready to make a marketing push but I for one hope they don't wait until they have shiny graphics and completed in game demonstrations of features.

I hear what you are saying, and waiting too long is a possibility, but not all marketing works the same and you do have to be careful with timing. It is not a maxim that sooner is always better in marketing, and "gamers" as a demographic are notorious for short attention spans and merciless, snap judgments. That's exactly why big studios usually have games under development for years until they have something visually pleasing to show before they begin any real marketing.

I understand your counterpoint, especially since I expressed my opinion so emphatically.

Cinnder wrote:

Personally, I don't think launch hype will do us as much good as word of mouth longevity anyway.

I agree that it's quite possible that CoT will defy the usual game cycle and slowly build up to a healthy, sustainable population. That'd actually be pretty freaking cool.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

i wonder, who is the stateman of CoT ? do we have a main character as charismatic than he ?

I would say your character...or the other players’ character. The game is about your character, your character’s story, not a foot note in one of the games’ characters’ stories.

TitansCity wrote:

Anthem ? We have no pictures...

No pictures? We have postes some. Like the one on this page.

Who ever felt their character was just a footnote in CoH?

That said, game needs a face and our characters are not it.

Especially if it's player characters that are planned to be shown "Yay! I totally want to play that game with the ugly characters! Twiggy legs and arms and distorted face on a stick figure? They think that's good?" :p

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I never felt my character in

I never felt my character in CoH was a footnote. But other than early CoH I mostly did radio missions. Pretty easy to not feel like a lackey when you're just doing your own thing.

Otherwise I just didn't pay that much attention to the lore or mission dialogue or anything. My heroes did things for people because they were things that needed doing. And luckily CoH didn't do too much where one of their NPCs would show up to show you up. I hated that in CO. A few of their missions were just "you do X while I the important NPC do the important thing!"

If we could get story options for how we get past barriers that'd be neat. Locked door? A. Bust it down, B. Get the door open, C. Find another way round. Then you'd get a crash sound effect and some smoke and your hero's standing in front of a hole. Or you'd hear the door click open and your hero would be standing next to an open door. Or your hero would be in the room door untouched. I think that would pretty much cover how multiple heroes get past the barrier without having to actually animate any of the doing.

Just a rambley thought that last bit.

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Understand I am not arguing,

Understand I am not arguing, I am simply offering a counterpoint.

Empyrean wrote:

I hear what you are saying, and waiting too long is a possibility, but not all marketing works the same and you do have to be careful with timing.

That's my point. There are ways to market this game that do not require 'timing'. At least not in the way you have defined it (having something to wow audiences with).

Empyrean wrote:

It is not a maxim that sooner is always better in marketing, and "gamers" as a demographic are notorious for short attention spans and merciless, snap judgments.

Well, I didn't say sooner is better, I said too late is bad. And I don't agree with your assessment of gamers. Gamers, like 'geeks', are probably the most loyal types of fans you can find. The may be vocal about what they like and don't like but it takes something pretty big to drive them away. I am not talking about die hard fans either, just regular fans who keep coming back year after year to see the new Saw movie or play the new Assassins Creed game. All it took to get the crowd screaming like maniacs who took over the asylum was for Rocksteady to say 'Batmobile' at the Origins release, a full two years before Knight came out. Make a gamer your fan and you have a fan for a long long time.

Empyrean wrote:

That's exactly why big studios usually have games under development for years until they have something visually pleasing to show before they begin any real marketing.

'Big studios' marketing is a very different beast than an Indie developer like MWM. The big boys are using mass marketing to convince you that you 'need' their product.
Indie developers should be more focused on making a fan of you. They can't compete on the same marketing stage as a Blizzard or EA so they should try to create a buzz around the unique elements they plan to include. This was why NoMans Sky was voted 'most anticipated game', their promise of unique and highly desired gameplay elements even before they could show anything impressive (Yes I know NMS is not really Indie).

It is unlikely that CoT is going to have graphics that set standards in the industry and many of their unique gameplay designs are not going to be something easily displayed in an ad. Flashy visuals and in game demonstrations are not what I think MWM should plan their marketing around. They should be doing exactly what they are doing in these forums just on a larger scale. They should give potential fans a look behind the curtain so that those fans emotionally invest on a more personal level with the game and it's creators.
That type of marketing does not need to wait until the right time because there isn't a 'right time'... only 'too late'.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I couldn't agree more. Personally, I don't think launch hype will do us as much good as word of mouth longevity anyway.

This is one of those things where we may be looking at a situation of Less Is More (so to speak) with regards to creating "buzz" around City of Titans. Rather than HYPING City of Titans with tremendous amounts of "marketing and advertising" ... instead ... I'm of the opinion that MWM will be far better off by releasing a superior product "into the wild" in the form of the Avatar Builder, and letting the word of mouth chatter about it suffice as their advertising blitz for increasing awareness of the game's potential(s). Basically ... a "killer app" situation. But in order to make that work, you have to have the goods ... which is why we're all so eager to see the Avatar Builder get released.

And the reason that I say this is because giving Players a TOOL that allows them to express their own personal creativity making appearances for characters is one of the ways to get people "invested" in the potential and possibilities that City of Titans will have to offer.


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After reading the previous

After reading the previous two posts by Brain & Red, I realize I was thinking in terms of a two pronged approach but that I didn't express that. The first prong being pretty much exactly what they are doing--organic fan-gathering through building buzz with things like behind-the-curtain looks and the Avatar Builder release.

But at the right point I do think it could be good for them to market as widely as possible, because I think they are actually going to have a pretty solid "wow" factor, especially within the Superhero MMORPG niche. This latter is the marketing that should only be done once the game gets to where it has the kind of sizzle that sells (like visuals and ingame feature demos).

But, while I didn't express myself clearly, I wasn't origionally arguing FOR "wow"/big sizzle type marketing, or against doing the kind of marketing they are already doing too soon--I was arguing against doing big sizzle/"wow" type markting too soon. That's what I meant by "not all marketing works the same".

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Do keep in mind that one of

Do keep in mind that one of the most successful MMO's of all time has done so without a major marketing push: EVE Online.

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

As far as I can tell, yes they are since it is also when they will do their Second Chance crowd-funding run. I am also sure they have stated that they want something solid to show before they go full on marketing.

For MWM to market CoT at this point would be insane and suicidally counter productive. If you do anything less than blow (most) people away with shiny action visuals and "wow" them with hyped-up ingame demonstrations of features, they immediately and vocally declare "you suck" to anyone and everyone who will listen and then write you off--usually permanently.

We here on this forum are (mostly) the exceptions to this generization, and so MWM needs to be really ready to knock people's socks off before mounting any significant push outside of our community.

Yes indeed. And this is why I thought the panel at PAX West (the ultimate gaming hype fest on the West Coast) was not such a good idea. But given the low attendance at that, the harm was probably minimal. Plus what is done is done. On the subject of image and marketing, I'm still concerned that MWM isn't doing enough to distance themselves from the other so called CoH successors. Quite the contrary, they seem bent on promoting these other entities and failing to even acknowledge potential competitors at face value. It's also no secret that outside the very friendly confines of this forum, at least some of the natives (including Kickstarter contributors) are growing restless over progress.

I can certainly appreciate the overwhelming patience and support the community here has shown towards the CoT effort. I include myself in that number. My enthusiasm for this game's potential remains at an all time high based on what I've seen from both a creative and technical standpoint. But ultimately, success is going to depend on an outreach that extends far beyond those few individuals who regularly contribute here. I have heard that the goal is for CoT to be an AAA release. I, for one, salute that objective and I believe it's very possible. But that means that people who deliver and support such a product need to act in a way that demonstrates AAA marketing and business savvy... especially in the year of their product launch. For many reasons (most centered on a variety of other distractions that have nothing to do with getting CoT out the door), I personally haven't seen that aspect yet from MWM. I'd be less than truthful if I said anything else or that it doesn't bother me.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Do keep in mind that one of the most successful MMO's of all time has done so without a major marketing push: EVE Online.

Sure, and such a push should only be done if warranted by need or potential benefit. Hopefully CoT will never need it, and if not it should only be done if it seems clearly worthwhile.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Do keep in mind that one of the most successful MMO's of all time has done so without a major marketing push: EVE Online.

Right :) But CoT has even not at least one marketing event ^^ (except pax west)

What i meant is that , in France for instance, CoT is not known at all... The onygame website which are talking about CoT, even once, are website where fans can write articles or news.
There is no "official" thread about CoT.

(i hope i'm understable. I'm not sayong CoT should make marketing events like Obsidian or Blizzard of course, but maybe at least give some informations or demo to the most popular game websites to make CoT known a little ?)

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Do keep in mind that one of the most successful MMO's of all time has done so without a major marketing push: EVE Online.

Right :) But CoT has even not at least one marketing event ^^ (except pax west)

What i meant is that , in France for instance, CoT is not known at all... The onygame website which are talking about CoT, even once, are website where fans can write articles or news.
There is no "official" thread about CoT.

(i hope i'm understable. I'm not sayong CoT should make marketing events like Obsidian or Blizzard of course, but maybe at least give some informations or demo to the most popular game websites to make CoT known a little ?)

Memory is a fickle thing. If we do that now, right now, today, not only would it be missing key features, but by the time we did release, memory would have faded and the boost completely lost. And those who did remember would only remember that it was missing bits.

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This makes sense ^^

This makes sense ^^
so it means you are working on that kind of stuff anyway ?

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

This makes sense ^^
so it means you are working on that kind of stuff anyway ?

Yes indeed.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

This makes sense ^^
so it means you are working on that kind of stuff anyway ?

Yes indeed.

Perhaps a "New Year - Looking Forward" update for backers is in order for the time being?

It'd be really great to know where you guys are on your overall timeline.

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MWM already said we'll have

MWM already said we'll have more information when the caracter creation will be finished :) we just need to be patient (even it is mostly impossible !)

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I saw an NC SOFT van out

I saw an NC SOFT van out behind my house. They were asking my neighbors about some Sakura Tenshi guy.
There was a guy at my pizza place wearing an NC Soft hat. He was staring at me.
I found the NC Soft support line on my wife's Cellphone...

I think they are up to something.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

I saw an NC SOFT van out behind my house. They were asking my neighbors about some Sakura Tenshi guy.
There was a guy at my pizza place wearing an NC Soft hat. He was staring at me.
I found the NC Soft support line on my wife's Cellphone...

I think they are up to something.

I'll keep an eye out for odd traffic from your IP.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

They can't compete on the same marketing stage as a Blizzard

Awww, does that mean we'll get no massive multi-million dollar cinematic?

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Nos482 wrote:
Nos482 wrote:

Awww, does that mean we'll get no massive multi-million dollar cinematic?

I know you were poking fun but I personally think that MWM should use short videos when they move to direct advertising.

The game Dead Island used a simple and fairly powerful video short to advertise their product and it won awards. The Team Fortress 2 'Meet the...' videos from Valve were fantastic.
Here is the Dead Island one for those who haven't seen it before (warning graphic).

and the TF2 ones

These became viral sensations despite not being the 'multi-million dollar' videos that Blizzard used to promote Overwatch. I hope MWM does a few of these videos when they start a direct advertising campaign and I am sure they can produce high quality videos with a compelling story to hook potential players.

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Meet the Hero.

Meet the Hero.
Meet the Villain.


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Not far off from what we were

Not far off from what we were planning. Each one takes 1 person about a week to produce.

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Does anyone know what

Does anyone know what Samuraiko is doing these days?

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How bad could I possibly be? Let's see...

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Nos482 wrote:
Nos482 wrote:

Does anyone know what Samuraiko is doing these days?

Last I saw, she was playing Rift. She's fairly active on Twitter.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Not far off from what we were planning. Each one takes 1 person about a week to produce.

While I love machinima shorts (I do those as a second job), I am not sure that they are the best way to make a first impression. To me they always seemed more fan service than marketing. But like I said, a compelling short will hook people regardless of the style of video.

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I really like the Overwatch

I really like the Overwatch shorts, I haven't really seen many others that I have liked as much.

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

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I enjoyed those Overwatch

I enjoyed those Overwatch shorts as well but the production value of them is most likely beyond MWM's budget.

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As far as legality and

As far as legality and copyright goes, I was more worried about the name Titans than NCsoft.

It's a generic enough name that you wouldn't think anyone would be able to trademark it. However, Marvel's been suing anyone who uses the word "mutant" in comics for ages, even though it's a common word in the English language, and even though everyone is technically a mutant if you understand biology.

So if they can get away with telling people that they can't use the word mutant in reference to superheroes, then DC could definitely get away with saying no one but them can use the word Titans in relation to the superheroes, especially considering Titans is one of DC's more known super team names (after Justice League and JL adjacent teams, of course).

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At one point (and possibly

At one point (and possibly still now) DC and Marvel had a copy right on the term "Super Heroes" which is why it's often wrote as "Superheroes" it's amazing the difference a little space makes.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

At one point (and possibly still now) DC and Marvel had a copy right on the term "Super Heroes" which is why it's often wrote as "Superheroes" it's amazing the difference a little space makes.

There is a bit more to it than that. Here is a quick article that explains things a bit more succinct than I ever could...
https://www.cbr.com/the-superhero-trademark-faq/

The only thing that the article doesn't discuss is how tenuous the copyright is, but that's an argument for another day.

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NCSoft would only have the

NCSoft would only have the grounds to sue if MWM were literally using their characters and parts of their IP without permission. Literally everything in CoT is MWM's own creation, and even "City of" has been used many times and isn't related to CoH. You can't sue someone for having a similar idea, that's not how the law works. There's never been a case of Rockstar Games suing the many, many GTA knockoffs or inspired games that has come from the GTA series, because there is no grounds for them to do so. Or, as bad as it was, Capcom had no grounds to sue Comcept for Mighty No. 9 because it committed no crime (other than the crime of being awful). Or Konami with Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night etc.

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Unfortunately the US legal

Unfortunately the US legal system is heavily tilted in favor towards the one with the most money so not having standing to sue may not be a hindrance for some companies. It is often enough with just threatening to sue to make smaller actors change their behaviour since they just don't have the financial means to defend themselves. So from a technical and even legal perspective you certainly can sue someone for having a similar idea but the chances of that actually sticking in court is slim to none if you don't have standing to sue.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Unfortunately the US legal system is heavily tilted in favor towards the one with the most money so not having standing to sue may not be a hindrance for some companies. It is often enough with just threatening to sue to make smaller actors change their behaviour since they just don't have the financial means to defend themselves. So from a technical and even legal perspective you certainly can sue someone for having a similar idea but the chances of that actually sticking in court is slim to none if you don't have standing to sue.

Has there ever been a case of someone being successfully sued just for having a similar idea in recent years?

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Yes.

Yes.

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Yes.

I'd like to see specifics. My understanding is that concepts can't be copyrighted, and names can only be trademarked. This prevents people from running a monopoly.

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with three successor projects

with three successor projects in the works and with Beta and release dates out there...you would think NCSOFT would have acted by now.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

you would think NCSOFT would have acted by now.

They'll only act if there's money at stake. Until there's a profit motive, they'll do nothing.


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The Hybrid wrote:
The Hybrid wrote:

I'd like to see specifics. My understanding is that concepts can't be copyrighted, and names can only be trademarked. This prevents people from running a monopoly.

What you are talking about is a part of Intellectual Property. It has nothing to do with preventing a monopoly and is about protecting the original creators intellectual or creative inventions. Also, and I think you already know this but in an effort of clarity, symbols can be trademarked as well as words, not just names.

Your original question was if anyone has ever been successfully sued for having the same idea and a quick google search will show you that it happens quite often.
But 'concepts' are not the same as ideas, especially in the framework of this discussion. To explain, a concept would be a strongman and an idea would be a strongman in red and blue tights with a big 'S'.

Copyright, trademark, authorship, derivative works, intellectual property and so forth is a very subjective field of law. Even patent laws are not without constant challenges. What is protected under 'Exclusive Rights' (how ownership of ideas and creative or intellectual works is defined) one day isn't the next. We could spend weeks discussing this topic and barely scratch the surface of the nuances involved.

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Even Spiritual Successors are

Even Spiritual Successors are legal, as demonstrated by notable successors which even eclipsed the games that they succeeded. Dark Souls long ago eclipsed Demon Souls in the minds of most people, for example, to the point that the entire gameplay system is now called "Dark Souls-like"

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That's true Tyche, but I am

That's true Tyche, but I am sure your legal advisors have spoken those 4 words that bring dread to creators and make dollar signs dance around lawyers heads.

Anyone can sue anyone.

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Fallout springs to mind when

Fallout is the first thing that springs to mind when I think of successful spiritual successors.

They really wanted to make Wasteland 2, but EA had partial rights, so made Fallout 1 instead. Wasteland 2 did eventually get released, but only recently, and by a small group. Deathclaws, Brotherhood of Steel, NCR rangers, etc, are all inspired by Wasteland stuff (shadowclaws, guardians of the old order, desert rangers, etc).

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Spiritual Successors are a

Spiritual Successors are a large and varied bunch of games, and many have long ago become household names. Fallout, Bioshock, Dark Souls, Assassins Creed, League of Legends, Torchlight, Pokemon, Deus Ex, Dragon Age, Halo, Crysis, Prototype, Saints Row, Final Fantasy, Call of Duty, Bulletstorm, Bayonetta, Aliens: Infestation, Command & Conqueror, Chrono Trigger, Resident Evil, Mass Effect, Metro 2033, Titanfall, No Mans Sky, War for the Overworld, The Talos Principle, Cuphead, the list goes on and on for successful spiritual successor games. How many of us could look at this list, and even name which game they came from anymore?

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Torchlight - Diablo

Torchlight - Diablo
Prototype - Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
Saints Row - GTA
C&C - Warcraft?
The rest - No idea =P

When people ask me about my religion, I tell 'em I'd worship Cthulhu.

How bad could I possibly be? Let's see...

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Nos482 wrote:
Nos482 wrote:

Torchlight - Diablo
Prototype - Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
Saints Row - GTA
C&C - Warcraft?
The rest - No idea =P

All but one. C&C is the successor to Dune II

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I faintly remember this game.

I faintly remember this game... that was a long time ago.

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How bad could I possibly be? Let's see...

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I used to play it, fun game.

I used to play it, fun game.

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The Hybrid wrote:
The Hybrid wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Yes.

I'd like to see specifics. My understanding is that concepts can't be copyrighted, and names can only be trademarked. This prevents people from running a monopoly.

The problem is that big companies will sue the little companies, knowing they'll lose, but knowing they can cause those little companies to go under in legal fees.

Lawyers don't tend to work cheap, reasonably priced and in fact, demand to be paid even if they don't do a good job, do the job, and are basically scum :p

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I will add that it's not true

I will add that it's not true of All Lawyers.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I will add that it's not true of All Lawyers.

That and $3 gets me a cup of coffee.

It only takes one lawyer to ruin our day. See the related field of patent trolling as well.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Haven't met a lawyer (or

Haven't met a lawyer (or judge) that I trust yet :p