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Brightburn... Superman with a twist

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Lothic
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Brightburn... Superman with a twist

Anyone else heard of this upcoming movie called Brightburn? It looks like it's going to be literal answer to the question, "What if Superman grew up and became fully evil instead of good."

It's being billed as more of a "Superman-esque horror" movie than a strict superhero movie. The set up for the movie is practically identical to the Superman myth: Alien baby crash lands on Earth and is adopted by a Kent-like couple. The difference comes as he grows up and deals with being ostracized/bullied by his classmates. This is where the Superman-styled story switches gears and becomes more like a Carrie-clone. The young boy starts to terrorize the town using his powers against those people who were tormenting him.

I figure if this story is handled properly it could more be more like what the fall of Anakin Skywalker SHOULD have been but wasn't in the Star Wars movies. Imagine a Superman-like character who's driven to the "Dark Side" by the fear and misunderstanding of the people around him. It really sounds pretty awesome... again if they handle it right.

There's been a couple of trailers for this movie so far. I suppose we'll see how it goes:

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It looks quite good. If done

It looks quite good. If done right it could make for a very good movie. There is a good comic book series back in the day, Miracle Man by Alan Moore where there was a Kid Miracle Man sort of along the lines of Shazam that turns evil on downtown London. It is a god read.

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So Ultraman.

So Ultraman.

Or any of the other evil versions of superman.

Or any of the times, elsworlds, etc that superman turned evil.

The answer to the question of "What if someone like superman was evil?" The answer is those who wronged them would die in gruesome manners, and then the superman analogue would just do whatever the hell he wanted up to and including ruling or ruining the world.

It's just not interesting to me. Regular Superman is more interesting; someone who's seen the bad in humanity but still believes in their potential for good.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Quote:
Quote:

Regular Superman is more interesting; someone who's seen the bad in humanity but still believes in their potential for good.

This just makes "regular Superman" seem painfully naive and unrealistic. All things being equal it's far more likely an alien kid trying to pass as human dealing with growing up with powers is at the very least going to be treated with suspicion by his peers. As Prof. Hawking would have likely mused (as he did about possible aliens IRL) it's far more likely that such a kid would "go evil" than "see the good in people".

Maybe I'm just more like grumpy old Batman than "happy, happy, joy, joy" Supes. ;)

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

So Ultraman.

Or any of the other evil versions of superman.

Or any of the times, elsworlds, etc that superman turned evil.

The answer to the question of "What if someone like superman was evil?" The answer is those who wronged them would die in gruesome manners, and then the superman analogue would just do whatever the hell he wanted up to and including ruling or ruining the world.

It's just not interesting to me. Regular Superman is more interesting; someone who's seen the bad in humanity but still believes in their potential for good.

I think that the trick with a lot of those is they focus on the character being an adult while evil. I don't know if we've ever seen Clark Kent, as a child, go off his rocker.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

So Ultraman.

Or any of the other evil versions of superman.

Or any of the times, elsworlds, etc that superman turned evil.

The answer to the question of "What if someone like superman was evil?" The answer is those who wronged them would die in gruesome manners, and then the superman analogue would just do whatever the hell he wanted up to and including ruling or ruining the world.

It's just not interesting to me. Regular Superman is more interesting; someone who's seen the bad in humanity but still believes in their potential for good.

I think that the trick with a lot of those is they focus on the character being an adult while evil. I don't know if we've ever seen Clark Kent, as a child, go off his rocker.

Yeah I sort of have the feeling Project_Hero only bothered to read the first sentence of my post and automatically assumed this movie was going to be like those other "Superman turns evil" stories from the DC comic books. As I explained this movie is not really going to be a "comic book" movie in the traditional sense. It's not even "Superman" in the traditional sense.

P.S. Ironically while I know various versions of an "adult evil Superman" have been shown many time in DC comics when Project_Hero said "Ultraman" this was the first thing I thought of:

instead of this reference. This only proves that knowing TOO much about American comic books didn't actually help anyone here today. ;)

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It's just not an interesting

It's just not an interesting concept to me, personally. We've seen kid with powers go nuts and kill people before, we've seen evil superman before. The only vaguely interesting element of it is seeing good parents dealing with their becoming evil child, which I think the movie Omen did too (might be wrong, only seen it once and that was probably over a decade ago now).

Again, just not my thing.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

This only proves that knowing TOO much about American comic books didn't actually help anyone here today. ;)

It seems that it helped Cy Coughlin get her Mean Editor Hat. ^_^
Although you could argue that that wasn't today....

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

It's just not an interesting concept to me, personally. We've seen kid with powers go nuts and kill people before, we've seen evil superman before. The only vaguely interesting element of it is seeing good parents dealing with their becoming evil child, which I think the movie Omen did too (might be wrong, only seen it once and that was probably over a decade ago now).

Again, just not my thing.

For what's it's worth I never said this Brightburn movie HAD to be your thing. If anything I was simply suggesting it wasn't a direct re-hash of a DC comic book story I'm aware of.

As far as relating this movie to a previous movie/story it really looks much more like Carrie than Omen. Omen was about the Anti-Christ and even as a child Damien basically had no question in his mind that he was "Evil" and always meant to be. On the other hand Carrie was about a girl with powers who didn't necessarily WANT to be bad/evil but was driven to it by the shitty way she was treated.

Again if it's handled well what we'll see in Brightburn is the conflict between the boy WANTING to be good but essentially not being able to help himself. That sounds like an interesting story to me. Maybe we'll discover that he's actually a member of an alien race of Predators who become rabid killers as they grow up so his time as a "nice boy" on Earth was actually an aberration that's completely counter to the "True Nature" of his species. That would be cool...

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

For what's it's worth I never said this Brightburn movie HAD to be your thing. If anything I was simply suggesting it wasn't a direct re-hash of a DC comic book story I'm aware of.

As far as relating this movie to a previous movie/story it really looks much more like Carrie than Omen. Omen was about the Anti-Christ and even as a child Damien basically had no question in his mind that he was "Evil" and always meant to be. On the other hand Carrie was about a girl with powers who didn't necessarily WANT to be bad/evil but was driven to it by the shitty way she was treated.

Again if it's handled well what we'll see in Brightburn is the conflict between the boy WANTING to be good but essentially not being able to help himself. That sounds like an interesting story to me. Maybe we'll discover that he's actually a member of an alien race of Predators who become rabid killers as they grow up so his time as a "nice boy" on Earth was actually an aberration that's completely counter to the "True Nature" of his species. That would be cool...

Never claimed or tried to imply that you said it had to be my thing. Just kinda giving some insight as to why I was rather dismissive of the thing.

The Omen thing was more for the "Good parent having to cope with evil child" angle, but I don't know too much of the movie itself. I think I caught part of it on TV once when I was pretty young and that's about all the interaction I've had with the franchise.

Personally I'm not a fan of the evil nature kind of narrative, the idea that someone is just born evil. Also I think if the kid in this is part of some naturally evil race of aliens I think that would weaken the story as then it's less about how crappy people can drive someone to do terrible things and more the idea that being good is ultimately pointless as some people are just evil.

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Well, this movie shows that

Well, this movie shows that you can make any kind of story about superhuman beings. (Actually, I would argue that through the history of humanity, a majority of stories told have involved superhuman beings of one sort or another, but that's getting a bit off topic.)

WRT the "super-kid goes bad" trope, the original Twilight Zone dished up some humdingers. Episode 73, "It's a Good Life," might have been the most profoundly disturbing; an omniscient six-year-old with Omega-level reality warping makes for one terrifying entity!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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Smallville showed a non adult

Smallville showed a non adult Superman.

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Honestly looks pretty good

Honestly looks pretty good once the action starts. Trailer gives me the impression it'll be horrifically slow for 2/3rds of the movie.

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The world needs more capepunk

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Also I think if the kid in this is part of some naturally evil race of aliens I think that would weaken the story as then it's less about how crappy people can drive someone to do terrible things and more the idea that being good is ultimately pointless as some people are just evil.

I simply disagree. It's possible this movie might be turning the whole "nature vs. nurture" debate on its head, which in itself would be an interesting story to explore.

Most people assume that human beings are "inherently good" and they only become evil when they've been hurt or taught to be evil. But what happens when you introduce an alien boy whose "natural default" might be considered much more evil from our point of view. Then you add in a set of human parents (in this case specifically the mother) who has spent the last 10ish years trying to teach this inherently evil being to be good, at least "good" the way most of humanity defines that concept.

The net effect is that instead of the "boring" story of a human boy fighting off the temptations to be evil you've got an alien boy who's effectively fighting off the unnatural (to him) temptations to be "good".

Stories that fundamentally force us to question our definitions of what is "good" or "evil" are always interesting. I suppose we'll see if Brightburn manages to explore that territory in a serious way.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Smallville showed a non adult Superman.

Tom Welling (the actor who played Supes in Smallville) was 24 years old IRL at the BEGINNING of the series. This made him 34 by the end of Smallville. Let's just say calling a 34 year old a "non-adult" is something only Hollyweird seems to be able to get away with. :)

Frankly the ever-present "adults playing teenagers" phenomena is one of my only serious hangups with the current Supergirl series. Yes, yes I know that the Supergirl show has adequately explained why a 31 year old is playing a character that's supposed to be a teenager but it still doesn't make me like the scenario any better. ;)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Also I think if the kid in this is part of some naturally evil race of aliens I think that would weaken the story as then it's less about how crappy people can drive someone to do terrible things and more the idea that being good is ultimately pointless as some people are just evil.

I simply disagree. It's possible this movie might be turning the whole "nature vs. nurture" debate on its head, which in itself would be an interesting story to explore.

Most people assume that human beings are "inherently good" and they only become evil when they've been hurt or taught to be evil. But what happens when you introduce an alien boy whose "natural default" might be considered much more evil from our point of view. Then you add in a set of human parents (in this case specifically the mother) who has spent the last 10ish years trying to teach this inherently evil being to be good, at least "good" the way most of humanity defines that concept.

The net effect is that instead of the "boring" story of a human boy fighting off the temptations to be evil you've got an alien boy who's effectively fighting off the unnatural (to him) temptations to be "good".

Stories that fundamentally force us to question our definitions of what is "good" or "evil" are always interesting. I suppose we'll see if Brightburn manages to explore that territory in a serious way.

So, a little like Kylo Ren from the new Star Wars trillogy.

Guy who wants to be evil and actively resists the temptations to be good.

But we have seen such stories before of inherently evil characters trying to be good. In a relatively recent example we have Bullseye for Daredevil season 3. At the start he was trying to be a good, normal, person.

It's just less interesting to me. Part of making good villains is seeing what drove them to villainy. And from there is where we see the breakdown of what is good and evil because you can understand why they do the evil, and why they feel that it's justified or even a good thing. As a viewer you can sympathize with their plight even if you abhor their actions.

With a character that's just evil you lose that. Why are they doing this? They're just evil.

That's why I find characters like the Joker ultimately boring. He's entertaining to watch sometimes, but ultimately he's just kinda flat. I'll take a well written Mr. Freeze anyday.

So we might just have to agree to disagree here.

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Project_Hero][quote=Lothic
Project_Hero wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Stories that fundamentally force us to question our definitions of what is "good" or "evil" are always interesting. I suppose we'll see if Brightburn manages to explore that territory in a serious way.

So, a little like Kylo Ren from the new Star Wars trillogy.

Guy who wants to be evil and actively resists the temptations to be good.

Not strictly trying to derail the thread here but Kylo Ren is a twerpy millennial snowflake with a grandfather-complex. Honestly he's trashed what little dignity the Star Wars series had left.

If Brightburn actually wants to be a "seriously good movie" it'll stay away from any analogies to Kylo Ren.

Project_Hero wrote:

But we have seen such stories before of inherently evil characters trying to be good. In a relatively recent example we have Bullseye for Daredevil season 3. At the start he was trying to be a good, normal, person.

It's likely Bullseye was -always- a good person who just got trapped by using his skill for dubious purposes. I don't really see him being "inherently evil".

Project_Hero wrote:

It's just less interesting to me. Part of making good villains is seeing what drove them to villainy. And from there is where we see the breakdown of what is good and evil because you can understand why they do the evil, and why they feel that it's justified or even a good thing. As a viewer you can sympathize with their plight even if you abhor their actions.

I'm just saying that like 95% of stories that deal with good/evil are hardwired to the "seeing what drove a good person to villainy" angle. It's refreshing when the topic of good/evil is approached from another (opposite?) direction.

Project_Hero wrote:

With a character that's just evil you lose that. Why are they doing this? They're just evil.

That's why I find characters like the Joker ultimately boring. He's entertaining to watch sometimes, but ultimately he's just kinda flat. I'll take a well written Mr. Freeze anyday.

It's your loss when you piegeonhole an evil character's motivation down to "they do evil just because that's all they are".

I actually tend think that way about "inherently good characters". I see them as boring and flat because they are trapped in a monolithic world view of only doing the "right" thing whereas an evil character who can concoct a nearly acceptable rationale for what they are doing (i.e. Thanos from MCU) tends to be fascinating. This is why I actually think "the standard good guy" version of Superman is one of the most boring superheroes ever.

Take Babylon 5 as one of many examples of this. The Sheridan character on that show was likely the most boring character because he was the straight-laced Lone Ranger type. Other characters like G'Kar, Mollari and Bester were all much more interesting because they all started out basically flawed and/or downright antagonist but once we learned what made each of them "tick" and saw their character evolution they became much more realistic and memorable.

Project_Hero wrote:

So we might just have to agree to disagree here.

Don't we always. ;)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

But we have seen such stories before of inherently evil characters trying to be good. In a relatively recent example we have Bullseye for Daredevil season 3. At the start he was trying to be a good, normal, person.

It's likely he was -always- a good person who just got trapped by using his skill for dubious purposes. I don't really see him being "inherently evil".

He killed things and enjoyed it even as a child. He intentionally took lives and took satisfaction from it.

That is evil.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

But we have seen such stories before of inherently evil characters trying to be good. In a relatively recent example we have Bullseye for Daredevil season 3. At the start he was trying to be a good, normal, person.

It's likely he was -always- a good person who just got trapped by using his skill for dubious purposes. I don't really see him being "inherently evil".

He killed things and enjoyed it even as a child. He intentionally took lives and took satisfaction from it.

That is evil.

You yourself said "At the start he was trying to be a good, normal, person". Pick a side and stick to it. ;)

Again I'll go back to the "standard default" that most human beings expect other human beings to at least "start off" as good/innocent. You don't have to have that default when talking about an alien kid like in Brightburn.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

But we have seen such stories before of inherently evil characters trying to be good. In a relatively recent example we have Bullseye for Daredevil season 3. At the start he was trying to be a good, normal, person.

It's likely he was -always- a good person who just got trapped by using his skill for dubious purposes. I don't really see him being "inherently evil".

He killed things and enjoyed it even as a child. He intentionally took lives and took satisfaction from it.

That is evil.

You yourself said "At the start he was trying to be a good, normal, person". Pick a side and stick to it. ;)

Again I'll go back to the "standard default" that most human beings expect other human beings to at least "start off" as good/innocent. You don't have to have that default when talking about an alien kid like in Brightburn.

At the start of the -season- he was trying to be a good normal person. Listened to his old therapist's advice, had a good job in the FBI, was helping people. But as the season progresses you find out that as a kid he had killed a man, intentionally, and later while he as still a kid killed some baby birds or kittens or something, I don't remember the exact details.

So the start point we see him at he's trying to be a good person, we later find out that he's doing so against his evil nature.

Yeah, the standard default assumption is that kids are inherently innocent and good, but that's why the creepy/evil child trope is... Well, a trope. Which is also where I think alien with inherently evil nature loses a bit of the impact, from an evil alien race, turns out to be no different from them. Hell, I've seen both the fighting against the evil nature of your species to overcome it or to embrace it in Dragon Ball. Goku, alien from a war like and pretty much evil race lands on earth becomes good, Piccolo jr. a child born of evil gets treated kindly by a couple and gives in to his evil nature.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

But we have seen such stories before of inherently evil characters trying to be good. In a relatively recent example we have Bullseye for Daredevil season 3. At the start he was trying to be a good, normal, person.

It's likely he was -always- a good person who just got trapped by using his skill for dubious purposes. I don't really see him being "inherently evil".

He killed things and enjoyed it even as a child. He intentionally took lives and took satisfaction from it.

That is evil.

You yourself said "At the start he was trying to be a good, normal, person". Pick a side and stick to it. ;)

Again I'll go back to the "standard default" that most human beings expect other human beings to at least "start off" as good/innocent. You don't have to have that default when talking about an alien kid like in Brightburn.

At the start of the -season- he was trying to be a good normal person. Listened to his old therapist's advice, had a good job in the FBI, was helping people. But as the season progresses you find out that as a kid he had killed a man, intentionally, and later while he as still a kid killed some baby birds or kittens or something, I don't remember the exact details.

So the start point we see him at he's trying to be a good person, we later find out that he's doing so against his evil nature.

He's also an adult human. Brightburn is a story about an alien child.

Project_Hero wrote:

Yeah, the standard default assumption is that kids are inherently innocent and good, but that's why the creepy/evil child trope is... Well, a trope. Which is also where I think alien with inherently evil nature loses a bit of the impact, from an evil alien race, turns out to be no different from them. Hell, I've seen both the fighting against the evil nature of your species to overcome it or to embrace it in Dragon Ball. Goku, alien from a war like and pretty much evil race lands on earth becomes good, Piccolo jr. a child born of evil gets treated kindly by a couple and gives in to his evil nature.

I still think a mother who's tried to teach an alien child (which -might- be inherently evil; like I said we'll see if that's the case) how to be "good like a human" is a unique twist. Does human "nurturing" have any effect on an alien "nature"?

I like stories that do something I've never quite seen before - call me funny that way. ;)

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It's something we don't see

It's something we don't see too often, but it's not wholly unique.

It's pretty similar to any feral child being taken in kinda stories.

The young Loki in marvel was a little like that too, wasn't it? Take a character destined to be evil and try to instill some good in them.

There's ways to make it interesting, but the inherent concept isn't all that interesting to me.

Recently I've been finding good characters that tap into their evil heritage to do good while resisting becoming evil themselves really interesting.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

It's something we don't see too often, but it's not wholly unique.

They say there's only like seven major story types in literature. Nothing is strictly 100% unique and never will be. Still, I tend to be interested in stories that manage to come up with "relatively unique" twists like Brightburn looks to have done.

Project_Hero wrote:

It's pretty similar to any feral child being taken in kinda stories.

Minus the "alien" part and the direct good/evil conflict perhaps. Feral kids aren't "evil turning good" or vice versa. It's more just a culture shock/clash thing.

Project_Hero wrote:

The young Loki in marvel was a little like that too, wasn't it? Take a character destined to be evil and try to instill some good in them.

Well "good" as far as not being anti-Asgardian goes. To call Loki a "100% success story" is being generous in the extreme. Loyalty to a step-brother can be shown by both good and evil alike. ;)

Project_Hero wrote:

There's ways to make it interesting, but the inherent concept isn't all that interesting to me.

Recently I've been finding good characters that tap into their evil heritage to do good while resisting becoming evil themselves really interesting.

I can't even think of a good quintessential example of that scenario worthy to highlight. That's like some kind of "anti-anti-hero" if there's even such a thing.

What you've defined here would fit 99.99999% of any character that's ever existed because if a character is human then they have an "evil heritage" no matter how angelic they act otherwise. No one is absolute 100% binary when it comes to good and evil unless you want to talk about religious definitions of things like a Christ or Anti-Christ and I'd rather not jump down that particular rabbit-hole for the purposes of this thread. Let's stick to just talking about mere mortals here.

Literally EVERY CHARACTER of any literary story you can think of has "flirted" with doing bad things in order to accomplish their goals regardless if they are otherwise generally considered "good" or "evil". Case in point how many stormtroopers do you think Luke Skywalker has killed over the course of every Death Star and/or Imperial space ship he's encountered? You find what amounts to the status quo interesting? To continue with the Star Wars theme your example would have to be a Jedi that used to be a Sith but still manages to somehow use Sith teachings to do pro-Jedi things. Has there ever been such a Star Wars character?

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I can't even think of a good quintessential example of that scenario worthy to highlight. That's like some kind of "anti-anti-hero" if there's even such a thing.

What you've defined here would fit 99.99999% of any character that's ever existed because if a character is human then they have an "evil heritage" no matter how angelic they act otherwise. No one is absolute 100% binary when it comes to good and evil unless you want to talk about religious definitions of things like a Christ or Anti-Christ and I'd rather not jump down that particular rabbit-hole for the purposes of this thread. Let's stick to just talking about mere mortals here.

Literally EVERY CHARACTER of any literary story you can think of has "flirted" with doing bad things in order to accomplish their goals regardless if they are otherwise generally considered "good" or "evil". Case in point how many stormtroopers do you think Luke Skywalker has killed over the course of every Death Star and/or Imperial space ship he's encountered? You find what amounts to the status quo interesting? To continue with the Star Wars theme your example would have to be a Jedi that used to be a Sith but still manages to somehow use Sith teachings to do pro-Jedi things. Has there ever been such a Star Wars character?

A human isn't really using their evil heritage though. And It's less about a hero who has to do a bad thing and more a hero that uses an evil power for good ends.

A star wars example could be someone who uses the darkside to perform good acts, they could end up succumbing to the darkside and then the conflict of that is the interesting part.

But that's also not exactly what I'm talking about.

Raven (Teen Titans) is a really good example of what I mean. Normally she uses her magic for things but if pressed (or made angry or emotional) she can go all demony and gain a lot of power. I'm not sure if her doing this has any ramifications on her as I only know her from Teen Titans (cartoon), Teen Titans Go, and those Teen Titans movie things DC has released. It's the consequences of it that are the most interesting part, and it's not something that a character can be easily rid of.

Thinking about it It's not wholly unlike the evil nature vs. Good nurture thing. Just with this the evil nature is tied explicitly to a power or their powers, and for the most part takes a backseat unless utilized.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

It's something we don't see too often, but it's not wholly unique.

It's pretty similar to any feral child being taken in kinda stories.

The young Loki in marvel was a little like that too, wasn't it? Take a character destined to be evil and try to instill some good in them.

There's ways to make it interesting, but the inherent concept isn't all that interesting to me.

Recently I've been finding good characters that tap into their evil heritage to do good while resisting becoming evil themselves really interesting.

I didn't get the feeling that Ice Giants were inherently evil. Yes, at war with Asguard, but it's not like Odin was always a great guy.

I'd say it's likely Loki was always the young child, who suffered from two things...a father who may have loved him, but was a bit bad at showing it and may have just been a bit of a terrible dad AND he knew he'd always be second to the throne to his older brother who was also a better warrior.

So, mischief was Loki's way of standing out and getting attention.

Then he found out the truth and warped it as the reason Odin wasn't the best father.

Now, I can't talk about comic Loki, but that's my feeling for MCU Loki.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Take Babylon 5 as one of many examples of this. The Sheridan character on that show was likely the most boring character because he was the straight-laced Lone Ranger type. Other characters like G'Kar, Mollari and Bester were all much more interesting because they all started out basically flawed and/or downright antagonist but once we learned what made each of them "tick" and saw their character evolution they became much more realistic and memorable.

Bester was my favorite. Him and Garibaldi. But Bester was bestest. There wasn’t enough of him in my opinion.

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if Superman himself went evil

if Superman himself went evil, and someone (Batman for sure) had a contingency plan which he does, its possible superman would just be taken out via his rock allergy. its a pretty weaksauce weakness but a man without any limits needs one.

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ZeeHero wrote:
ZeeHero wrote:

if Superman himself went evil, and someone (Batman for sure) had a contingency plan which he does, its possible superman would just be taken out via his rock allergy. its a pretty weaksauce weakness but a man without any limits needs one.

An evil superman would kill any who oppose him in fractions of a second.

He can move faster than human thought, as soon as batman went to reach for kryptonite he would be dead from heat vision, or lobotomized.

One of the only heroes who can keep up with Superman is the Flash, then the question becomes can the Flash kill Superman? Maybe the flash with Kryptonite.

The only thing that stops Superman from just decimating everything if he goes evil is the writers.

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I'm sure batman's plan

I'm sure batman's plan involves the flash if flash is able to keep up with him. but the writers argument is a moot point, nothing happens without the writer saying so.

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Superman knows Batman has a

Superman knows Batman has a contingency plan for if he went evil.

So evil Superman would know to kill Batman the second he went evil.

Batman is many things, but he's not fast enough to react to or instantly know the second Superman goes evil.

Like Project Hero said, the only thing keeping Superman from decimating lots of heroes (I won't say all of them) is the writers.

I say that, because I do feel some heroes in DC now, would be able to if not go toe to toe and win, be able to gang up on Superman and take him down.

However, Batman would be down before he could get the kryptonite close to Superman. Superman isn't dumb. Until the writers make him dumb. :p

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I wonder what would happen if

I wonder what would happen if Bizarro would be good and less... Brainless. He could definitely fight superman.

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I mean arent there some

I mean arent there some villains who would still want to kill superman regardless of whether he was protecting people or killing them? and ones who are ridiculously powerful, designed to give superman trouble?

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ZeeHero wrote:
ZeeHero wrote:

I mean arent there some villains who would still want to kill superman regardless of whether he was protecting people or killing them? and ones who are ridiculously powerful, designed to give superman trouble?

Darkseid springs to mind, but he's more likely to sit back and watch the world burn.

I don't think there are any earth-based villains that an evil Superman would have much trouble with. I'm talking about one who wouldn't care about collateral damage or if he kills his oponent. Just Superman at 100%, like, when Superman cuts loose against Darkseid or Doomsday but for every enemy.

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Batman has a contingency plan

Batman has a contingency plan for when Superman goes evil. So the best plan is for Superman to kill Batman before he becomes evil.

*mind blown*

Of course, Batman being Batman he somehow thought of that possibility and has a contingency in place.

Don’t ask me what that is. I ain’t Batman.

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How does either of them know

How does either of them know they've gone 'evil'?

What's Batman's plan for when HE goes 'evil'?

Be Well!
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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

How does either of them know they've gone 'evil'?

What's Batman's plan for when HE goes 'evil'?

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Fireheart

I think in one movie (Justice League: Doom maybe?) Batman's plan for if he goes evil is the Justice League? Or maybe just Superman? I dunno. That movie sucked.

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

How does either of them know they've gone 'evil'?

What's Batman's plan for when HE goes 'evil'?

Be Well!
Fireheart

Adam West Batman probably had a beeper with a red light with “Evil Superman Bat-Detector” crudely printed on it.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

How does either of them know they've gone 'evil'?

What's Batman's plan for when HE goes 'evil'?

Be Well!
Fireheart

Adam West Batman probably had a beeper with a red light with “Evil Superman Bat-Detector” crudely printed on it.

"Robin! Get me... The evil Superman repellant bat-spray!"

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Take Babylon 5 as one of many examples of this. The Sheridan character on that show was likely the most boring character because he was the straight-laced Lone Ranger type. Other characters like G'Kar, Mollari and Bester were all much more interesting because they all started out basically flawed and/or downright antagonist but once we learned what made each of them "tick" and saw their character evolution they became much more realistic and memorable.

Bester was my favorite. Him and Garibaldi. But Bester was bestest. There wasn’t enough of him in my opinion.

Turns out I was lucky enough to see Walter Koenig in an autograph line at a convention a few years after the end of Babylon 5. In the few seconds I had with him I managed to mumble something about loving his portrayals of both Chekov and Bester. He smiled, said "thanks" and signed my pic of him as Bester. And thus my Hollywood career ended as soon as it began lol.

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Ultraman was my first thought

Ultraman was my first thought too. Looking forward to it; so far I loved all Gunn movies of which I was aware that where made by him. :)

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

How does either of them know they've gone 'evil'?

What's Batman's plan for when HE goes 'evil'?

Be Well!
Fireheart

I think in one movie (Justice League: Doom maybe?) Batman's plan for if he goes evil is the Justice League? Or maybe just Superman? I dunno. That movie sucked.

That it was.

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Like batman didn't already

Like batman didn't already have a bunch of kryptonite around :p

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Premise: "Dude, what if

Premise: "Dude, what if Superman was, like, bad & stuff? That would suck, right?"

Dude's response: "Whoahhhhhhhhhhhhh! That should, like, be a comic or a movie or something!"

Narrator's voice: "It has been."

Story development: "And, dude, what if it was, like, back when he was a kid--so it could totally be a creepy kid horror movie too, right?!?!"

Dude's response: "Whoahhhhhhhhhhhhh! Yeah! That would be sick!"

Narrator's voice: "Sick indeed..."

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Premise: "Dude, what if Superman was, like, bad & stuff? That would suck, right?"

Dude's response: "Whoahhhhhhhhhhhhh! That should, like, be a comic or a movie or something!"

Narrator's voice: "It has been."

Story development: "And, dude, what if it was, like, back when he was a kid--so it could totally be a creepy kid horror movie too, right?!?!"

Dude's response: "Whoahhhhhhhhhhhhh! Yeah! That would be sick!"

Narrator's voice: "Sick indeed..."

I like the narrator better as the annoyed third wheel in this conversation :p

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Premise: "Dude, what if Superman was, like, bad & stuff? That would suck, right?"

Dude's response: "Whoahhhhhhhhhhhhh! That should, like, be a comic or a movie or something!"

Narrator's voice: "It has been."

Story development: "And, dude, what if it was, like, back when he was a kid--so it could totally be a creepy kid horror movie too, right?!?!"

Dude's response: "Whoahhhhhhhhhhhhh! Yeah! That would be sick!"

Narrator's voice: "Sick indeed..."

But can we get Jeff Bridges to reprise his roll as The Dude?

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