It has been stated that the Devs haven't addressed the tutorial yet, they want to make that last. http://cityoftitans.com/forum/how-did-i-get-here
So here is an opportunity to toss out all of your ideas on what you want to see in a tutorial.
Lets face it, we will end up with one tutorial that we will end up using again and again.
I suggest spicing it up a bit with
1) Variable enemies. Gang members get boring after a while. But a lot of villain groups need a training ground. How about this week it is killer cheerleaders, next week Martian raw recruits, Killer Klowns, the Jr Mobster league, sidekicks gone bad, etc.
We already have the designs for the enemy groups, just plug in a new one.
2) Most people rush through the tutorial. But if you poke around a bit you can find hidden gems...pretty good salvage that can sell for big bucks on the market. Of course they are not free...you have to defeat a mob to get them.
3) Hidden missions/badges. Maybe not for launch, but for a quality of life update.
short in length, this is similar to a radio mission. Like #2, this will have a decent reward.
4) the location. Change the map every once in a while. I love the idea of a super fight in a shopping mall or a grocery store. A high school is always fun. But a secret govt lab full of mutated freaks with super powers looks fun too.
...of course there is always the airdrop to a remote island to fight a robot run amok.
what do you want to see in a good tutorial?
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Well, I think we all would like a compelling story and interesting NPCs.
However, let's not forget the Purpose of a Tutorial is to walk new players through the game-controls and basic features of the interface and game-world. It, incidentally, allows experienced players to mess around a bit with their most basic powers and to demonstrate their competence within the world. 'Outbreak' and 'Breakout' did a pretty good job of this. 'Galaxy's Last Stand', on the other hand...
The tutorial for 'Freedom' failed, horribly, on so many levels. The biggest one is Scale. You arrive in the middle of an Earth Shattering Threat!
The very first thing one does is run up to two of the ultimately powerful Freedom Phalanx and fight some enemy with them... and your power seems almost On Par with them! They're taking on individual monsters and hitting them a few times before they're defeated - You take on individual monsters and hit them a few times, before they're defeated. When you're told to move on, they just stay there, wasting their power on minions and spouting pointless dialogue. And the finale is a GM Boss that you can defeat single-handedly, though it certainly goes faster if you have a team - But teaming up is never suggested by the tutorial!
That's probably good, because the whole structure of the Ruined Galaxy City instance is geared towards the single player, particularly the alignment choice in the middle. This choice calls upon a mechanic (lending or stealing energy) which is never seen again in the game. The lucky/unlucky NPC involved also has no existence outside of the tutorial, so what's the point of even giving him a name?
So, one thing I'd like to see in a new Tutorial is enemies to scale with the newbies. IF it seems appropriate and exciting to put higher-level NPCs at work in the area, then they should ACT AWESOME and assign 'mundane' tasks to the newbie, like rescuing/abusing civilians. It might be good to assign a 'team' of lowbie NPCs to the new guy, perhaps with a 'mentor character' of the same AT to talk them through basic tasks and tactics. It would be particularly awesome if this NPC team didn't Suck at proper teamwork.
As for 'hidden' things, like badges, I'd either make them explicitly revealed, or leave them out of the tutorial completely. Alternately, I'd have them completely optional and After the main tutorial. Side-missions would also fit, here. Some people are going to rush through the Tutorial, regardless of additional content and some are going to skip it entirely. I stayed in for the Isolator badge on every character and kept the Enhancements and Inspirations to sell for seed-money, once I arrived in the City.
An in-game Manual with lore and interface information, and tutorial hints, would be invaluable. Especially useful would be the ability to control-click (or whatever) on some mysterious item seen in the game, and have the manual/wiki pop up with information.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Yep, that is what I did too. Kept me going in those first few poverty stricken levels. Just wish I could do that here, but from the sound of it I'll have to earn my keep the old fashioned way.
I do like your idea of enemies to scale.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Why have an explicit tutorial zone at all?
Personally I'd rather have a more fleshed out tutorial-tip system, including a few tutorial type side quests (since it's very likely that they'll be using that anyway to some degree), that display those when first relevant and just drop you off in the city proper. Maybe the first 2 or 3 mission/quests could be more of the introductory kind to give the player some bearings but I don't really see a need to make more than that.
/em [url=http://orig03.deviantart.net/ec07/f/2009/135/7/c/daniel__s_facepalm_by_xaikanokurayami.jpg]facepalm[/url]
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
The tutorial is not just a way to impart game mechanics, its the first introduction into the game itself. It doesn't matter if the introduction takes place in a separate starter zone or the open world, it should be interesting and compel players to learn the mechanics.
That's what almost everyone is suggesting...in their own way.
I did have this random idea where the Tutorial is structured more like a zone event and one of the Several tutorial scenarios is then applied to an appropriate zone-map section... Some low-level threat goes on a rampage, or hatches a plot, or protects a target and the basic Tutorial structure/layout is dropped over the whole event.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I want a 2 minute tutorial with plenty of Quick Time Events, and a Voice Over in a handful of languages. ;D
Fireman: There's are hostages in the burning bank still, but the steel Door wont come down! Plus, All the windows have bars. We're Screwed!
Maybe Hero You: Can I help Mam/Sir? or
Maybe Villain You: Can I help Mam/Sir? *and quietly rob some deposit boxes* >:)
And as you progress, a Voice Over explains whats needed as a QT Event pops up to Demonstrate how to use your Existing Powers (1 or 2), or a few Training Only Temp Powers (5 or 6 power you are most likely to Level up to*).
As someone who regularly trains people on software applications, I'd say be careful of QTEs and any information provided only in voice. People have varied methods and speeds of learning, and any time-based events (including spoken words that can't be read at the user's own pace), while possibly exciting, are likely to inhibit understanding.
Personally, I liked both Outbreak and Breakout, and still went through them with every new character, even in my 7th year of playing. Every time I went back there it brought back memories of the first time I ever played CoX. I'd like to see something similar in CoT, but I very much like the suggestion of some randomness, such as changing the foe roster.
I definitely agree that Paragon dropped the ball when it came to the new tutorial in Freedom -- both with the opening content and with the atrocious tutorial arcs. It's one of the few complaints I had about CoX.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Izzy, that was beautiful.
I guess I'd prefer the tutorial to be a stand-alone instance, with the expected differences between Hero and Villain. I'd actually like there to be several tutorials based on the character's projected alignment, but I know that's asking for a lot. Especially ridiculous for launch. (But later, down the road, maybe?)
I'd like it to have a rationale, or 'story' to it. NOT a 'virtual training' thing where you run through a featureless maze and are taught the basics step-by-step, moving on when you have completed each one. I'd like the tutorial to give me an actual 'feel' for the game world, not just teach me the mechanics and which buttons to push on my keyboard.
I also agree with others that it should fit the scale of a brand new Hero/Villain arriving in TC or beginning to make a name. Please don't let's have us all being the central hero that saves the world on our first day in action. Fighting back-to-back with the "world's mightiest" should not be a thing right off the bat. (A separate issue, but I want the power levels and skills of the Big Names to appear magnificent in comparison to my newbie self until I rise through the levels) Now I know there are those whose character concept would have them entering Titan City with a fully-formed, world-crushing uber-character. But that ain't really happening, is it? Check your attitude and get with the lore a teensy bit until you get past level 3 or 4, 'kay?
So, what does the tutorial need to impart on a newbie? The usual stuff, of course: Movement, Combat, Receiving & Turning In Missions. These are pretty easily handled and I'm sure the devs can devise a satisfactory scenario to teach those.
Something I'd like to see included is an introduction to communicating with the player base. Using the chat functions, logging in to whatever team-finder we have, that sort of thing. I have found that to be sadly lacking in most MMO's. You usually have to 'pick it up in the streets' or go find a wiki and print out a cheat sheet for the acronyms and slang. (Okay, you'll probably have to do that, anyway) But it would be nice to make it a little easier to break into the community of helpful and understanding players that CoH was famous for.
I'm not suggesting we force players to enter chat with other players during the tutorial. I'd suggest some built-in robotic test of their 'Universal Communicator' or something. So that it's the game simulating a short chat session with another hero, for instance, and the messages don't actually go out to the community. I'm not sure how you'd justify the 'team finder' in the game setting, but wiser heads than mine might.
If there is an opportunity in the tutorial to team up with other newbies against whatever antagonist we're presented with, that would be cool, too. Not like a formal 'team' but a situation where support type characters can do some good and others can see the benefits of grouping up.
I'd also like to see an early introduction to the economy. Or, more specifically the buying and selling at merchants. So that maybe you get some piece of good loot as a drop during the tutorial and you're instructed to go find a particular merchant that will give you a good price on it. This also provides you with your first seed money in the City.
Like in CoH, I'd like the player to come out of the tutorial with actual XP that goes to their progress. Like coming out lvl2 instead of lvl1. However, in order to slot the second power you are entitled to, you have to go visit the CoT equivalent of the 'trainer' first thing. (So you get the introduction to that as well.)
And now that we've got all this stuff packed into the tutorial, we should be able to skip it. :) You don't get the extra XP, or the doo-hickey to sell for cash, but I presume that you are an experienced player that can seed your new toon from an existing bankroll so you don't need to slog through all that for the fifth time.
I'm leaving a bunch of stuff out, but others will fill in, I'm sure.
Because ... GRIEFING.
You DON'T want to have your Players' first introduction to the an area where Level Cap jerks are waltzing in and clearing everything in no time flat just to be jerks and make things hard for the newbies while laughing at their powerlessness. That's not "heroism" and it's not even really "villainy" ... it's just being obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious and getting off on all the (angry) attention.
Now, once you've finished your Tutorial and are out in the wider open world, that calculus changes ... but DURING the Tutorial? No, keep the newbies segregated in their own (protected) space where they can make all the mistakes they need to ON THEIR OWN without having some Level Capper waltz over and ROFLstomp all over them and what they're trying to do.
This isn't Rocket Surgery.
We [b]KNOW[/b] what Gamers are like when given the chance to be {CENSORED} and there are no (immediate) consequences for anti-social behavior.
Simply EXPECTING everyone to "play nice" is foolish beyond measure, even if that is the cultural norm we want to establish and promote in our game.
So you can either avoid the problem entirely, by making a dedicated Tutorial Zone which offers a Controlled Environment for new (and returning) Players to learn the game and take their first steps in ... or you can invite chaos and griefing by NOT having a dedicated Tutorial Zone and just dumping new characters into the open world from the get go (at known spawn points) and ensuring that they are maximally vulnerable to Bad Actors™ in the game world.
Go on ... think about why having a Tutorial Zone might be a good idea. We'll wait. Take your time. Think about it.
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Wouldn't all of that be equally doable with a phasing system where it ensures that only you, or people who are in the "tutorial", can actually interact with each other, including enemies?
A phasing system that can also be used for any other quest that requires changes in the environment based upon you actions and/or progress through that arc.
Honestly Lynne, the tone of voice in that post makes it sound, at least to me, like you've taken that question as a personal insult.
Could we spawn a private Instance of a random area and then apply the Tutorial Event to that landscape? It would be cool to offer players an array of starting areas - including the Airport/Train Station/Bus Depot/Truck-stop/Port Authority for those who are coming in from outside the city.
Be Well!
Fireheart
If they have an environmental phasing system then it would be relatively easy to give us a large variety of "entry/tutorial places", compared to creating them as actual zones. Though I suspect it won't be random in your meaning, just a large selection.
I assume that certain spots in the city might* fit what the Tutorial is trying to convey as far as the Archetype (and maybe Primary powerset, and not so much the Secondary powerset). And of course the Tutorials Situation would grandstand the Archetypes Need to be there.. as what's needed is what.. You can Only provide support, or hindrance. ;)
This Means players starting up on a Stalwart might actually be useful sooner, if they grasp the differences between the primary Defensive power-sets, which might be steep for n00bs.
Theoretically speaking ... maybe? Practically speaking, there might be problems with doing that when it comes to implementation, since it wouldn't be quite as neat and tidy necessarily as you're making it sound.
Less a matter of personal insult so much as deploring the point of view/perception that spawned the question in the first place. It's a little like asking why should anyone be allowed to vote in a democracy ... which manages to convey just how completely the questioner has missed the entire point and purpose of the exercise before asking the question.
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Well, we (and MWM) won't know that until both are made and compared, which will most likely never happen, so it's more likely they'll just choose based on cost effectiveness. Especially if they would want to tie it into how we arrive there.
And here I though the entire point of this thread was to discuss ways to introduce the player to the game, not in how to keep them safe from other players during that tutorial. Silly me.
Sure, I know that tutorials are done to introduce the player to the game and its mechanics in relative safety but for me that "relative" has always been towards the environment, not other players, maybe that's just an artifact of how my brain works together with my experience of MMO tutorials. I have no problem with being corrected and/or educated in general but having it done in such a confrontational manner that you did just doesn't sit right with me.
The way you described open world tutorials was just fine and could easily work without the 'phasing' mechanic. Most of the tutorial in your suggestion was in separate zones by using instanced missions anyway.
Despite what Red says, griefing is hardly the biggest reason for having a separate tutorial zone.
The reason why tutorials in MMOs are generally separated from regular gameplay is, in most cases, a matter of presentation and pacing. In the open world a brand new player can become overwhelmed by all the separate things going on all at once. This assault of the senses can make players miss important aspect of the tutorial. This is especially true of important or uncommon mechanics the player will need to know to even proceed. In a game that uses a tab targeting system...something that is becoming increasingly uncommon....just learning how to target a foe is integral to the game for example. Then there are other things to know like augments, alignment, how to get missions ect ect ect All of which could be intuitive to some but less so to others.
This can all be done in the open world but it becomes more difficult to keep a players attention focused on the task when there are so many distractions. Plopping new players in a separate zone where the majority of the stuff happening is designed by the devs to specifically direct the players to the information they are trying to impart is a much simpler and precise method.
These tutorial zones also impart a concept of the world itself. There is importance in explaining the general world the players live in so they get a feeling of what the game will be beyond just the mechanics.
I'm an experienced gamer, but the first time I tried WoW, my newbie experience was semi-permanently tainted by aggressive PvPers crowding the newbie-town and spamming duel-requests. After CoH went down, I did go back and try WoW again and had a reasonable experience... mostly because all of the 'action' had moved into the end-game grind by then.
I also tried GW2 and basically ended up squelching the world-wide chat channel because there was too much... um, 'stuff' in it. So, even an experienced player can become overwhelmed by the influx of information.
I think Both of these issues are affected by Community, so we might be okay, but having a (semi)private tutorial instance would give new people a chance to get it all straightened out, before being tossed in the deep end.
Be Well!
Fireheart
As Fireheart points out, you want a Tutorial to be a place where people can "orient" themselves into the game in a controlled setting. Part of that involves "confining" new Players to a defined section of space where it's hard for them to get lost(!). Remember, you want to design the Tutorial for people who have NO prior knowledge, experience or history with your game. They aren't going to know WHERE things are, or where they can (and can't!) go.
An urban environment is a "dense" and busy environment. It's easy to get lost in it. All it takes is one wrong turn and you're at the "which way to Albuquerque?" stage of trying to figure out where the hell you are (and how to get back to where you need to be). That's why a lot of Tutorial Zones are designed in a somewhat serpentine/linear fashion, so as to "guide" you through what you need to do and what you need to learn. That in turn implies Purpose Driven Environmental Design ... which is something which you typically AREN'T going to get out of any particular spot of already existing city landscape and urban design for the open world.
The Needs of the One don't "fit" the Needs of the Other.
This is why it is so often Best Practice to create a purpose built Tutorial Zone ... even if the zone itself is built "broadly enough" to accommodate multiple branching paths of outcome for a variety of Tutorial options (such as Hero versus Villain, with Four Color versus Realistic layered on top of that divergence).
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
One thing I've been thinking about in the past few days is a Travel Power Tutorial, giving Players a chance to learn how to use their starting Travel Power effectively.
Superspeed: timed "race" between waypoints at ground level which requires superspeed in order to complete successfully because other options aren't fast enough. Could be something as simple as "the phones are down and this message needs to get delivered RIGHT AWAY!" by hand so as prevent (or cause) something bad from happening, can you get there in time?
Super Jump: another timed "race" between waypoints, but the waypoints are located on parabolic movement arcs (so you have to "bounce around" in order to complete).
Flight: there are glowies that you need to interact with that are placed under overhangs with no place to "stand" below them, meaning you need to hover in place in order to complete the interaction, which no other movement type will allow.
Teleport: sort of a "maze" game inspired by "the ground is made of lava" in which there are safe spots and everywhere else will prevent you from reaching your objective. I'm thinking areas of light and shadow, with the shadows being isolated pools surrounded by light, and if your character enters the light they get spotted and "blow their cover" and fail to sneak up on their objective without being noticed. Only Teleport allows you to cross the maze of shadowed spaces without being seen because you "skip past" the lighted areas without entering them. If you successfully cross the maze by Teleporting only to the safe spots, you easily succeed at the objective. Think of it as using Camouflage to cover an approach and an escape, and could be something as simple as stealing some information or gathering some intel (like overhearing a conversation) that then kicks off the next Mission Objective in the chain of events.
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Well said! I agree completely.
+1. Me Like! ;)
/em chuckle
Well that's one ...
[youtube]CAdkKQ6-6wo[/youtube]
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Why stop at just a tutorial? Why not include various mazes and races as mini-games through out the entire game?
One step at a time.
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Just to be clear, Red - are you talking about these travel power tutorial 'games' being part of the initial tutorial? I thought it was established that we would choose travel powers as part of our character creation. I'm not sure a potentially frustrating test is the best way to teach someone to use a brand new power. Especially if it means failure keeps you from entering the larger world. How would you include this in the tutorial? Or would it be something separate? Like after we exit the tutorial, one of our first missions in the city is based on our travel power? 'Cuz that might be cool.
It sounds like you could be talking about a specifically tailored tutorial, which would surprise me, knowing your attitudes about dev resource management. Not that I'm against it personally, I would love a tutorial that looks at my character and assembles a mission out of chunks that suit my initial build and alignment.
IIRC, I thought it wasn't so much that we would be locked into "choosing our one and only travel power at character creation" as much as we would have the CHOICE of a free travel power at level one, which would also include the possibility if desired of choosing NO travel power at that time.
I realize the difference in wording of those two phrases may be subtle but the idea is that it's not that we must have one main travel power that we must establish from the beginning as a core part of our character separate from our other powers. It's more like we're still going to be free to have as many (or zero) travel powers as we want. The only real difference between CoT and CoH is that we'll effectively have an extra "free power slot" at level one that can only be used for an optional travel power. We'll still be able to choose to have multiple travel powers if we want to use up other power slots after character creation just like CoH worked.
Having said this I would think that tutorials specifically geared to travel powers ought to be optional, or at least there's no reason to force everyone to endure a travel power tutorial especially when the option still exists to not even take one during character creation.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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Y'know Lothic, now you mention it, I think you're right about the optional nature of having and choosing a travel power. In which case I wonder whether most people would bother with a specific tutorial for it at all. Which gets back to economizing development resources.
IslandTrevor suggested races, etc. in-game for those that wished to take part in them. These at least would have some utility beyond tutorials. Although, these were scattered all over DCUO and I never bothered with them, myself. They were a part of the Assassin Creed games, likewise I didn't bother with them because they didn't feel like part of the 'story' I was taking part in. In the Infamous games there were missions that basically constituted a race against time. I played them because they were part of the story (tenuously) but not my favorite part, by far.
Maybe, after the tutorial, a particular 'race' type mission could come up as one of your first few. This what you had in mind Redlynne?
So you get XP for completing it, and afterwards, you can re-take it and try to improve your time for a small IGC reward. I believe there are also leaderboards for high scores in this kind of thing in other games. I'm sure that appeals to some. Not my thing, as far as being part of my super-hero story, but there you go...nobody else has to play my way. :)
Yeah I'd have no problem with having missions (or even optional tutorials) that focused more on traveling/racing as the goal rather than on combat. But I don't think we should have dedicated/segregated content like "Mission X can only be selected if you have a Flight power". Sure Mission X could be designed so that having Fly makes it easier to finish; but ultimately ANY character with ANY travel power should be able to have access to ANY mission. There should never be any content limitations based on character builds.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I don't think Red was actually saying to include a pass/fail test in the games tutorial. I think it was intended to be optional (at least I hope so).
I also do not see an issue with travel power specific mini-games as long as there is parity among them all...including no travel at all.
[url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Officer_Parks#Talk_to_Professor_Hoffman.2C_then_Lt._MacReady]Remember Outbreak[/url] ... when you had to learn about how to do combat? Here are some Test Dummies™. Attack them and learn how to do it before moving on to fighting opponents that fight back.
What does this part of the Tutorial accomplish? Teaching new Players how to "fight" using their characters. There was even a "repeat" of this (of sorts) in the Praetorian Tutorial in District 7. Fairly standard fare used to teach new Players how to play.
Now, take that same underlying notion of teaching new Players how to ... engage ... the world around them, and apply it to use of Travel Powers. Instead of punching a Test Dummy, instead you're MOVING through the game world. It isn't about fighting Mobs, it's about NAVIGATING your way through the environment, using the Travel Power that you've selected (if any).
I was thinking in terms of a branching that rejoins back together, where the Travel Power you've chosen then dictates the "path" taken to reach the next objective in the Tutorial, at which point the storyline converges back together before continuing onwards.
If it helps any, think of what I'm pointing at as being like having a way to segregate which Test Dummies™ you're supposed to try out your new superpowers on. This one is for Smashing attacks, that's one's for Lethal attacks, there's the one for Fire, and there's another one for Cold ... you get the idea. You go over to the Test Dummy™ that matches your Damage type, do a few practice attacks and then return to your Contact after proving you can read and follow directions.
Now take that same underlying concept of being given a task that allows (and requires) you to practice your chosen Travel Power method ... except that instead of "fighting" a $Target you're instead tasked with completing what amounts to an obstacle course that's *REALLY BASIC*. The purpose is to familiarize Players with their chosen method of Travel using their movement superpower. The important thing to do is to introduce a new Player to the possibilities of what each of the Travel Powers can do that sets them apart from the other options. That formative experience can then be used as a part of the foundational grounding that each Player receives as part and parcel of completing the Tutorial.
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
The entire point of the thread was to do away with boring concepts like 'test dummies' to engage old players as well as new ones. This obstacle course sounds like it would not be very engaging. It would either be a bunch of pop ups that happen as you move around (press space now to jump over the fence) or it would all be told in the text of the task assigned. This doesn't take into account the fact you will be able to take ne travel sets later.
Movement in games is usually fairly intuitive and does not require tutorials to cover that aspect....and it should require a specific section of the tutorial to explain that wsad and space are movement tools. The only travel powers that might (big might) need a bit more info to pick up would be the grappling hook/parkour and teleport ... possibly fly (but unlikely).
I think the idea of optional tutorials and mini-games is a good one...but I don't care for it as a requirement of the main tutorial.
Mmm, target dummies were more conducive to unleashing Fireballs and Lasers than a 'sparring partner' would be, but a sparring partner might be an interesting option in training. One thing I didn't like about the target-dummy drones is that they didn't show damage - they didn't react to 'unleashed fury', except to bob a little bit. I would have liked some form of feedback over how I was doing. If my Controller has this amazing power to fling enemies into the air, how exciting is it to practice this on an immobile target that doesn't 'fling'?
That said, I approve of inanimate practice targets.
Be Well!
Fireheart
You can "do things" beyond the norm/standard of ordinary human capability, because you have superpowers.
It would seem to make sense to me that as part of the Tutorial, you are given an opportunity not only to "test" those new superpowers but also "practice" how to use and control them.
You know ... like this ...
[youtube]AAbE43sylKw[/youtube]
I can understand if this sort of thing doesn't appeal TO YOU. It would be foolish to think that EVERYONE is going to be wanting to try out their new Travel Powers like a complete and utter n00b who doesn't know anything about the game (let alone the genre). But the simple fact of the matter is that it is just as important to TEACH new Players how to not only USE their Travel Power(s) effectively, but also what they're capable of, and to build that ... sense ... of "this is what *I* can do!" into their character. That's because playing a game with superpowers isn't JUST about combat (I know, heresy!), but also about being able to "get around" in a crowded urban environment.
In that sense, I'm not just talking about learning how to run fast or climb walls or whatever ... I'm also talking about being able to coordinate use of the mini-map and waypoints system as well as any compass UI element, among other things.
Now, granted ... there are going to be a lot of gaming veterans around who will know how to do all of these things without even thinking about it. Movement around the gaming environment is something that a lot of us have already "mastered" through extensive gaming experience in a variety of games. Obviously, people like us, particularly those of us who are City of Heroes Veterans, won't exactly NEED a Travel Powers Tutorial, because we already "know" How To Do It (or just assume we do). But that's the thing. If you don't have experience already with a particular style of Travel Power, how to use it EFFECTIVELY and successfully might not be intuitively obvious. I know that "proper" use of Teleport took a while to master in City of Heroes, and I'd expect nothing different here in City of Titans. I'd honestly expect Grappling Hook to be one of the most challenging Travel Powers to learn how to use effectively and master, especially for Players who are new to the game (or even online gaming in general). That's because EVERY game has its own little bits of nuance and quirks when it comes to making use of ability that allow you to get around the game world. Travel may not be as visceral or as immediately satisfying as Combat, but it IS an important skill to learn (as a Player) and to master, since it is one of the elements that defines what KIND of a superhero you are in the game. So in that sense, it's important to not only learn how to MOVE around the game, but also how to use your Travel Power to NAVIGATE the "obstacles" in your path.
So yes ... I'm advocating including in the Tutorial Zone what amounts to ... this ...
[youtube]wREBD2og5iY[/youtube]
As I used to tell people back in City of Heroes ... yes, Superspeed is faster in a straight line, but Fly lets you move [i]in straighter lines[/i].
As far as I'm concerned each type of Travel Power comes with its own ... mentality ... of how to get around the game world, and they aren't always that congruent with each other in terms of the Player skills involved in using them properly. I'm thinking that if people actually have Travel Powers [i]during the Tutorial[/i] that the Tutorial ought to include what amounts to "instruction" in how to use those Travel Powers ... even if it just means leaping from rooftop to rooftop like a ninja so as to get somewhere via method not anticipated by your opposition, and thus achieve the element of surprise.
One way this could be done is by first giving the "obstacle course" tutorial and then have the Player put that Power into practice. You're then given a second "obstacle course" [i]with opposition in it[/i] to get through and you have two options for navigating it. Either use your Travel Power in a way that allows you to bypass ALL Combat(!) before reaching the final Boss, so as to make a surprise "entrance" ... or ... Defeat All Opponents within the "obstacle course" so as to clear it of opposition before going to face off against the final Boss. The rewards/XP gain will be the same either way, so you have the option to be Clever or you can just Brute Force your way through to the end of the Mission ... your choice.
And you can't (or, at least, shouldn't) be allowed to pull that kind of a stunt in a Tutorial, where you have branching paths to Mission Success, unless you have given your Players some opportunity to TRAIN and LEARN how to use their Travel Power effectively and efficiently. Why? Because without the opportunity to practice FIRST, it is UNFAIR to throw that kind of a challenge at a complete n00b who barely knows how to Walk, let alone Sprint. But if you do give that kind of a Travel Tutorial, it is then "fair game" to create situations where use of that Travel Power can be used to bypass opposition, allowing for the "reward" of not having to waste time in "pointless" combat that could have otherwise been avoided.
Do you see where I'm coming from with this?
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
It isn't a matter of appealing to me. Its about making a tutorial that is engaging to new AND old players. Otherwise it becomes skipped content that neither pays attention to.
Teaching players how to 'use it EFFECTIVELY and successfully' is ridiculous especially when combat itself (the main aspect of the game) won't do this. This is something players can learn in the game itself....just like optimal slotting, which powers and sets suit their preferred playstyle and so forth. Teaching basics is enough and it can be done in a quick and easy way without bogging down the tutorial.
As I said.... an optional tutorial that does all of the things you want is fine....for those that want or need a more in depth tutorial on travel but as a requirement of the main tutorial its excessive and not needed.
There is a reason why the 'learning to spiderman' is less than 2 minutes and even then only like 30 seconds of it plays the movement as not intuitive.
Considering that the [b]entire Tutorial[/b] is intended to be [i]optional[/i] ... I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're objecting to. If you want to skip the Tutorial because you already know everything, then skip it.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Forest for the trees....I don't want to skip the tutorial.... I want it to be engaging for both new and old players.
I am unlikely to get that but I can still express my desires.
Nothing saying that the core Tutorial mission(s) can't be at least as interesting as a Newspaper/Radio mission.
Hmm!
Be Well!
Fireheart
Define "engaging" since that seems to be the only thing you can hang your hat on.
You're also saying that you don't want to skip Optional Tutorial, but object to having that Tutorial give a thorough grounding in concepts and mechanics to people who might never have played the game before.
You're going to have to decide who the Tutorial is meant to "serve" as its primary purpose. The newbie? The alt?
I say "newbie."
You say ... ???
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
And here Redlynne puts a finger on it.
We need a tutorial that teaches new players the basics.
We want a tutorial that is fun enough that we won't want to skip it. Although that want is behind quite a few others for me. ^_^
Get the first done; and as close to the second as dev time and effort allow.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
One of the things we intend to provide is a location in which to test powers in a power set so players can get a feel for how they work, not unlike the Powerhouse from CO. This includes testing out movement powers, especially since there will be more movement powers added over time, there aspects of movement powers that haven't been released yet, and since they are entirely optional, it is possible for someone to wait until they are at level cap to even bother starting to use one. A location that allows for testing out powers at any level of play, not limited to the introduction of play in 'walled garden', covers this aspect quite handily.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I've often thought that a power-testing chamber ought to be part of the Character Creation stage and available before the character is actually spawned into the game. Basically taking the color and animation choice segment from CoH and making it 3D, with a target to practice on.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Quoted for emphasis of clarity.
Or to borrow a phrase used in Babylon 5: Crusade ... [b]Who do you serve? And who do you trust?[/b]
[youtube]QWa-PiyFQH0[/youtube]
I'm with Fireheart on this one. I was operating on the assumption that any sort of "Powerhouse" feature would be rolled into the Character Creation side of things such that you're able to "test" which Powers you want to have before committing to their purchase. But that's a rather different "lab" environment from what you deal with out in the wider world.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Its an abstract concept yet one that shouldn't be difficult to at least understand. In this case I am talking about an element of gameplay that offers similar enjoyment as the majority of the rest of the game does with minimal intrusive aspects like pop ups and repetitive tasks.
A good tutorial should not feel like your being taught but instead feel like a part of the overall game.
If you have the patience... watch this to see how a game can teach you the important aspects of the game without placing you in a kind of isolated learning environment.
[youtube]ppgF3zXdQsQ[/youtube]
The idea that the tutorial should provide a thorough grounding comes from thinking new players are not that smart. Tab targeting, movement, equipping, item use and goal acquisition all are fairly easy to understand with very minimal instruction. This is all a tutorial needs to provide for new players. More in depth aspect that are not required knowledge can be given in an extensive help option.
Trying to teach the more subtle nuances of the game in the tutorial is completely useless and unnecessary. There is a learned/mastered element that comes from natural progression in the game. It's a big part of the reason why games are designed with an increasing difficulty throughout progression....to give players a chance to learn the game better through practice...something that cannot be done in the short time people spend in a tutorial. And most certainly won't be taught with text or the few combat scenarios a tutorial can provide.
No matter how cute you phrase your answers or how many pop culture references you wanna make...in this case you are flat out wrong.
So to answer your question of who do I want the tutorial to serve....both....because there is absolutely no reason not to.
/em guffaw
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Shame you didn't add a pointless pop culture reference to perfectly exemplify the quote.
Now go ahead and reply so you can get the last word.
Maybe the tutorial should ask a few initial questions, to establish player competence? Or, Maybe basic things like targeting and movement could be established in that 'Powerhouse' stage, at the end of the Character Creator/Avatar Builder?
Be Well!
Fireheart
Okay, I watched it, and I have to counter with the observation that a FPS is, intrinsically, an 'isolated learning environment'. It's very different from being dropped in the middle of Atlas Park and being expected to survive - even though that wasn't very hard.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Well....Dead Space isn't a FPS.... its a survival horror with 3rd person mechanics and I am also not saying to drop people into Atlas.
As you watched the video let me just point out some of the careful ways that tutorial re-enforced the mechanics and concept through the design of that game without it beating you over the head with them.... then show how it can be applied to a game like CoT. This is gonna be long so strap in or bow out.
[b]Mechanics[/b]
In Dead Space certain elements of combat are changed from what one normal expects...even in a horror survival game. This was done to enhance a players unease and further re-enforce the horror elements. The most notable example being the change from traditional 'headshots' to unconventional dismemberment. The game uses the NPCs to convey this mechanic and the environment to re-enforce it. Its done without stopping the flow or taking you out of the immersion.
If this idea NPCs and environment as teachers is used in CoT you can allow players to learn naturally without it requiring a stop in play for those who know these things already.
Instead of having one NPC perpetually standing around telling anyone who clicks on him that you press tab to target or your endurance is the blue bar let the active NPCs do the teaching through either word bubbles or speech files (however CoT is going to have NPCs communicate). If the tutorial has your character going past a police blockade gunfight have the cops spouting lines like 'Get that one over there! [color=red][I](Hit Tab to target foes)[/I][/color] ' or 'Watch it, your gonna tire yourself out. [color=blue][I](The stamina bar is blue)[/I][/color] '. Any kind of information can be conveyed in this manner. If you want to teach the quick way to recognize foe rank use the NPCs. After a bunch of NPCs run past you screaming 'OH NO! [color=purple][b]Madhouse[/b][/color] is robbing the store! [color=purple][I] (A boss rank foe has a purple colored name) [/I][/color] ' Use subtle clues help convey ideas like these in the environment. Perhaps Madhouse has some small purple elements to his outfit (don't over do this or it will seem like all bosses have purple costumes) as just one quick example.
If the game is intuitively designed then much of the work of a tutorial is already done. All that a tutorial needs is to point players in the direction of the intuitive design and let them learn the subtle nuances of mastering the mechanics through actual gameplay.
[b]Concept[/b]
As a survival horror game Dead Space used a lot of tricks to take you out of your comfort zone. It used the traditional conventions in horror of darkness, uncertainty, gore, enviroment and scary sound effects/music. These all put a player in the right mindset for a horror game. It set the tone and re-enforced the concept of horror survival without taking you out of the moment to make absolutely sure you knew what type of game you were playing. Granted this is something an entire horror game should endeavor to do but the tutorial is where you are first introduced to this so it is important to get it right.
If you apply the same kind of thinking to CoT you can re-enforce the genre and have your heroes and villains start from a place of understanding. The use of appropriate music for either good guys, bad guys or anything in between can do wonders for setting a mood. There is a reason why movie soundtracks have separate hero theme songs and villain themes songs ....why action sequences usually have a pulse racing track accompanying it.
The environment in the tutorial should also express the world the characters live in which re-enforces the games concept further. In Dead Space it was a claustrophobic empty space station, in Blade Runner it was a dystopian cyberpunk world. As of right now we don't know exactly what the world of CoT will be like so its difficult to define it as a player yet but the tutorial should not feel like it is separate from the rest of the world ... even if in reality it is.
There should also be a strong visual element to the events of the tutorial that speaks to the concept of super heroes and villains. It can be through the use of flashy foe powers or it can be witnessing/participating in an elaborate set piece battle. However it is done, there should be something that gets you in the larger than life mindset of super heroics.
Other traditional aspects of comics can be used to further the concept of a super hero game as well..... bright colors, stylized foe design, ect ect ect.
The point is that using techniques and elements like these to re-enforce your games concept and setting will go a lot further than simply telling a new or old player that they are a hero or villain and they should now go do heroic or villainous stuff.
There are other things most games have (or should have) that will aid in teaching players without it affecting the flow of a tutorial negatively.
A fully adjustable tool tip and/or annotations option, extensive help files, and to a lesser extent specific optional tutorial missions that delve into a more nuanced aspect of mechanics.
Again...I doubt I will get what I want from the tutorial but if the tutorial is designed with the idea that this is the first thing you will see and in a way that is not intrusive then it will be one that both new [b][I]and[/I][/b] old players can enjoy on different levels.
Excellent job describing your vision of what you hope the tutorial can be. You had me conceptualizing your vision for myself and increasing my anticipation for CoT. Needless to say, now I'm ticked because the game client refuses to connect to the server and allow me to test the tutorial.
You also made me want a Dead Space like mission arc to experience a little horror with my heroism. Guess I'll have to wait. Tick'Tock.
Well, you make good points about ways to integrate instructions into the flow of the story.
However, I still contend that a single-player game, be it FPS or 'horror survival' is a lot more isolated than a MMO. How do you envision integrating instructions about chat channels and character interaction into the Tutorial?
Be Well!
Fireheart
FPS means[b][I] F[/I][/b] irst [b][I]P[/I][/b] erson[b][I] S[/I][/b] hooter. Dead Space was a 3rd person shooter. And yes any single player game will obviously be more 'isolated' than a MMO...or any game that includes a multiplayer aspect. I am not seeing your issue here?
Chat and interaction elements are not of an immediate nature when it comes to a tutorial. This is why most games do not include a section on these aspects unless the games mechanics regarding them are very uncommon or are required to proceed. Think back to the CoH tutorial or most tutorials and remember how they presented that aspect.
Most times they direct players to help files or use annotations/tool tips. I briefly went over those as an additional yet separate element to the tutorial itself. Other things that would be explained either through tool tips, annotations or help files would be manipulating the UI, keybinding, macros, getting gm help, mail system, navigation of the store, trading, purchasing, emotes and so on and so on and so on.
All the tutorial needs to do is familiarize players with the basic controls of the game, teach the uncommon/unique mechanics and direct players to additional instructions. A good tutorial does so in a fun way. A great one does so by being fun without losing immersion and teaches you in a way that adds to the enjoyment.
But if social elements are something that people feel an immediate concern and thus a requirement of the tutorial then have that be the start. An NPC actually spawns for you and comes up to you and initiates chat. Maybe this NPC says 'Please help me, my sister is stuck under a fallen tree [color=green][I](Hit Backspace and type in the chat to reply)[/I][/color]'. Whatever you reply with will trigger the next portion of the chat which goes on to explain that this is how you super types talk to one another and this isn't usually how regular people do it. She then invites you to her team and you both go free the sister...at which point she makes you team leader and asks you to invite the sister, explaining how in the same manner, and escort them home at which point one quits the team and the other must be expelled.
This is a quick and frankly ugly example of what could be done to teach these elements. The point is just hitting players with pop-ups, repetitious/boring tasks and simulation/training foes in the effort to teach every aspect of the game is a fools errand.
Ty NYXZ....I too wait on pins and needles for CoT to be released.
You could introduce Chat and Communication and also Team Finder with NPCs. Admittedly the content of such social interaction would be limited, but it could be used to show HOW to use the Chat and Find systems.
One thing I hope for in the tutorial (however it is implemented) is to have an option to skip PARTS of it. If I already know how to use the Chat Channels (i.e. bringing in an alt) let me skip past it.
Also, let the tutorial(s) be REPEATABLE. If I take a break from the game and there are updates to the system, let me re-take a tutorial if say, I've forgotten how to craft something.
+1
That's happened to me in several games from which I've taken a break.
While I have no doubt CoT will be so awesome I'll never want to take a break, there's still the possibility I get hospitalized for an extended period following being trampled by a herd of wild rhinoceros (rhinoceroses? rhinocerousae?).
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
I am pretty sure I read somewhere the tutorial is going to have the option to either skip or play after the first character.
And if the tutorial is designed in such a way as to not be intrusive....either using my suggestions or something the devs come up with.... nothing in the tutorial should slow a player down. That is actually my major point. Non-intrusive tutorials allow players to focus on the aspects they have the most difficulty understanding and are not hindered by the information they already know.