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Blizzard self-immolates WoW

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Redlynne
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Blizzard self-immolates WoW

The worst videogame villain in history gets defeated in a raid ... and everyone with two brain cells to rub together hates it and thinks it's a stupid waste of everyone's time and attention span.

It's hard to find a bigger Bonfire of the Vanities in all of gaming right now.
I mean, Blizzard is claiming that they just spent the last 20 years building up to ... switching off a robot.

One of the youtube comments I saw was that Blizzard have been self-plagarizing their own plot on repeat for the last 4 expansions.

Expansion Baddie: "I was trying to stop the bigger threat! You've doomed us all!"
Wash. Rinse. Repeat ad absurdium.

World of Fruitbowls may not be all the way dead yet ... but it is definitely beyond saving now.
It's not even Forsaken ... it's just an undead Scourge shambling forward in undeath, devouring the gold of the living like a parasite.

The collapse of faith in Blizzard's ability to tell a story in their games is very nearly complete.


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Redlynne
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When Bellular can

When Bellular can legitimately compare Blizzard's storytelling to Game of Thrones season 8 and honestly say that season 8 is so much better than what Blizzard has done ... well, that says something.

This whole debacle for WoW feels about as bad as the fallout from the Who Will Die? "story" arc in City of Heroes, which was nothing but plot holes and more plot armor than both the continuity and Women v Fridges court case could withstand.


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Redlynne
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Redlynne
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Lothic
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I have never played WoW good,

I have never played WoW good, bad or otherwise. For various reasons good, bad or otherwise I never bothered trying it. Oh well...

I have to assume WoW was a good game to play at some point else it wouldn't have become such a "big deal" in the industry.

I suppose I can regret not trying it during its brief golden age whenever that was.

But based on everything I've heard/seen about it over the years I suspect my never trying it will end up being one of my lesser regrets in life.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Redlynne
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It's been a week ... and

It's been a week ... and everyone agrees.


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warlocc
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I was a huge WoW fan for a

I was a huge WoW fan for a long time. Most Blizzard games in general were great. And then Activision happened.
Ever since it's been all downhill, getting steadily worse and worse.

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Huckleberry
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I got into WoW with Wrath of

I got into WoW with Wrath of the Lich King expansion. It was an absolutely amazing game. Immersive, expansive and fun, it was an utter time sink. Then when Cataclysm came out I was floored. The changes to the world we had all come to know and love made it all worth exploring all over again. The reason I'm mentioning this is i'd hope that City of Titans would be so successful that we could see our own version of cataclysm that changes the neighborhoods we would have also come to know and love and cause us to go out and explore the city all over again.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Redlynne
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It only hurts because it's

It only hurts because it's TRUE ...


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There is certainly value in

There is certainly value in watching the way(s) WoW is failing. I played it back before CoH and was utterly repelled by the toxic 'community' - So glad I quit and joined CoH, instead. After CoH shut down, I tried WoW again and played for a while, but the content devolved into Raid after Raid, without meaningful 'adventure' or stories. I could not progress solo or with 'mere' Pick-up groups. I work and it just isn't convenient for me to have to be involved in massive Guild and Organized-play events. I want to play for entertainment, not have an additional 'virtual job'.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Redlynne
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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

There is certainly value in watching the way(s) WoW is failing.

Indeed ... it is an object lesson in what NOT to do in either game design or storytelling.
It's also an example of what amounts to an Abusive Relationship™ between the creators and the payers (sorry, players).
Blizzard management have convinced themselves that no matter what garbage they put out, the payers will ALWAYS come back and will ALWAYS open their wallets for the vacuum suction noises to happen ... every ... single ... time.

Basically, they aren't even trying to make a good gaming experience (for everyone) anymore.
They're just hunting whales.


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Huckleberry
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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I played it back before CoH and was utterly repelled by the toxic 'community' - So glad I quit and joined CoH, instead. After CoH shut down, I tried WoW again and played for a while, but the content devolved into Raid after Raid, without meaningful 'adventure' or stories. I could not progress solo or with 'mere' Pick-up groups. I work and it just isn't convenient for me to have to be involved in massive Guild and Organized-play events. I want to play for entertainment, not have an additional 'virtual job'.

My experience was similar and it was the "need" to raid in order to continue playing that resulted in my departure.

Having said that, however, the social aspects of guilds and of group content are an absolute positive. IN MODERATION. The social pressure of gaming in a social group (even if you primarily solo) will keep players playing longer than without. But a publisher can go too far catering to groups, turning beneficial social pressure into oppressive social pressure. I'm not sure where the line of demarcation is, and I'm pretty sure that line is different for every player. Some players may think that any content that needs a group is oppressive, while others see their role in a group organization as personal validation and source of enjoyment of the game. Some people, like me, love social groups and fulfilling a role but will want to just game without those pressures sometimes.

I hope CoT will enable almost all gameplay styles. I think the extremes of solo-only and raid-only should be discarded, because each is mutually exclusive to the greater community experience that we had with CoX. One of the reasons that groups were so popular in CoX, I think, was because of the greater prospecting chance that larger groups and greater difficulty level provides. Because of this greater rewards for groups in CoX, there was positive reinforcement for social interaction and team and teamwork doing all content, not just content designed for teams.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Please do not discard 'solo

Please do not discard 'solo only" !
The needs of real life mean I only get 1-2 hours a night and some times only a couple nights a week. If the only way to progress is with a group, I'm screwed.

I liked the original games model. There was some content, like the Hami raids, that required a group. However, I could ignore that and still get multiple toons to max level. I may not have had the biggest and badest enhancements, but I had fun. I could occasionally do a large raids (when the stars aligned), but I never felt I HAD to do them

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Wiked Rolf wrote:
Wiked Rolf wrote:

Please do not discard 'solo only" !
The needs of real life mean I only get 1-2 hours a night and some times only a couple nights a week. If the only way to progress is with a group, I'm screwed.

I liked the original games model. There was some content, like the Hami raids, that required a group. However, I could ignore that and still get multiple toons to max level. I may not have had the biggest and badest enhancements, but I had fun. I could occasionally do a large raids (when the stars aligned), but I never felt I HAD to do them

I think you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted that you like the original game model and it included content that required groups. But I think I understand what you intended to say. The key is in your statement "If the only way to progress [my so-far solo plot] is with a group, I'm screwed."

When I stated the game should discard solo-only, I mean the game should ensure there is some content that requires groups. Like you stated with CoX, there were some group-oriented content, but if you didn't want to do it, nothing forced you into it. Although I think there should always be some achievements and other incentives for people to try all the content the game has to offer.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Redlynne
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Group content ... optional,

Group content ... optional, not required.


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Lothic
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Group content ... optional, not required.

I generally agree with that sentiment for the overall playerbase. CoT should not strictly require a player be in organized groups/guilds in order to advance characters to the level caps within reasonable timeframes.

On the other hand I'll admit that of the 8.5 years worth of CoH playing I enjoyed I mostly stuck around for the last 3 or 4 years because I got heavily involved with badge hunting which would have been effectively impossible without being associated with a loose grouping of like-minded players who helped each other with many of the hardest badges.

So while I agree that "solo play" should be possible and rewarding as a default I don't necessarily assume that I should be able to do everything that a game like CoT will offer 100% solo.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Oh, come on! Who DIDN'T

Oh, come on! Who DIDN'T fantasize about being able to solo Lord Recluse (or Satesman) at least once?

I do agree with most of the sentiments here. They need to balance the needs of those who can only solo due to IRL constraints while also having team/guild/community events.

Badges and Achievements need to also be divided that way too. Not that I want to deny solo players their share of shinies but by them same token, group play needs to be rewarded as well.

Lothic
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StellarAgent wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:

Badges and Achievements need to also be divided that way too. Not that I want to deny solo players their share of shinies but by them same token, group play needs to be rewarded as well.

IIRC you could probably earn 75-80% of all the badges in City of Heroes via solo play. Sure many of those were much quicker/easier in groups but they were still doable solo eventually. I figure as long as CoT ends up being in that same ballpark it'll be fine.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Group content ... optional, not required.

This echoes my sentiment as well, and this is from someone who enjoyed both grouped content such as Hami Raids and iTrials, but also the ability to grind out the game solo. So I can see the appeal of both.