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Base Basics

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Mystik Hippie
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Base Basics

Bases...every player, whether F2P or sub needs to have a place to retreat. So bases (personal or SG) should be given to all with these limitations: Subs get the option to design their bases...room placement & size, more theme options, wider selection of textures,and more options for color scheme. F2P would get to choose from a stock set of bases that cannot be altered except for basic colors, textures and themes. As for base items...both F2P and subs would have the same stock items, but subs would get more variations of the stock, as well as
additonal items not available for F2P.

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I think all we know at this

I think all we know at this point is that they are going to try to give us both SG bases and Personal bases. But as far as details about who gets what as far as Sub vs. F2P goes I think is anyone's guess. Clearly Sub players in general should get more options and/or built-in options that F2P players would have to pay extra for. But how that factors into bases probably won't be hashed out completely for a year or more.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Mystik Hippie
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Understood...just a few

Understood...just a few suggestions in what would make a for a good base. Bases in both CO and DCUO are pretty lacking in many things. CoH hit it on the head with the initial concept...in that we had some control over placement of things. I think with the technology today, it can be taken further. If you will....think of how the house designer is in The Sims...apply that to bases/hideouts/lairs in CoT, and it would add another level of depth for those of us who like to not only role play, but also create.

jag40
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Mystik Hippie wrote:
Mystik Hippie wrote:

Understood...just a few suggestions in what would make a for a good base. Bases in both CO and DCUO are pretty lacking in many things. CoH hit it on the head with the initial concept...in that we had some control over placement of things. I think with the technology today, it can be taken further. If you will....think of how the house designer is in The Sims...apply that to bases/hideouts/lairs in CoT, and it would add another level of depth for those of us who like to not only role play, but also create.

Indeed.

Sims do have a mean(good) place to stay builder tool.

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As I've been asking similar

As I've been asking similar questions elsewhere, and this topic has been brought up here: what might one expect to be able to do in base-building as a subscriber that one cannot as a non-subscriber?

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Lothic
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Segev wrote:
Segev wrote:

As I've been asking similar questions elsewhere, and this topic has been brought up here: what might one expect to be able to do in base-building as a subscriber that one cannot as a non-subscriber?

Again it's kind of hard to speak to this question when we know almost nothing about what SG and personal bases are going to offer ANY kind of player let alone Sub vs. F2P players.

I understand the whole idea that Sub players should end up getting various benefits that F2P players don't automatically get. But when it comes to bases I think what distinguishes a Sub player vs. a F2P player should only be limited to high-end optional items, not basic functionality.

So for instance if we say SG bases will generally allow players to edit their own rooms and add their own functional base items that should be allowed to ANY type of player by default. The difference would come in that maybe the Sub player would be allowed to choose from the BIGGEST type of rooms or the MOST expensive functional items that would not be available to a F2P player. This means a base created by a F2P player could do pretty much anything a Sub player's base could do, it just couldn't be quite as big or do quite as much.

As far as base decorations go I think that ANY player should have access to ANY kind of decoration. The difference would be that maybe some decoration options that a Sub player gets unlocked by default might have to be bought by the F2P first.

I think the design goal here should be that F2P players should be allowed to have completely functional bases that could even be nicely decorated (for additonal costs) while at the same time reserving the biggest, nicest functional features for only the Sub players.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Could this not be more easily

Could this not be more easily handled with a simple stipend for the Subscribers? I fully expect to subscribe, so part of me is saying "Sure, give me the extra free stuff up front." But I'd just as soon let a F2P'er earn all the same stuff through extended play. If, OTH, I'm getting a reasonable stipend then I can spend it on base stuff if I'm into that, or more costume sets, or XP boosts or whatever. Some folks may not have any real interest in their own base at all, and would rather invest in their SG base. This gets into currency exchanges and up-keep too, I suspect. Issues inextricably linked to the cost and availability of base items.

This is also why I'd be ok with a seperate "currency" for bases ala Prestige from CoH. At least for SG bases, I'd propose that the size of your "footprint" be limited by the number of members (But once you "buy" rooms they remain yours.) Decorative/non-functional items would be free or extremely affordable. Functional/QoL items like Vaults, "Enhancement Generators", Transport Platforms, etc. could be bought from regular in-game currency or with accumulated Prestige, but could only be "Maintained" by the activity level of the SG. This "prestige" would be earned automatically by SG members just by logging time with the game (No "SG mode" necessary) and wouldn't effect their XP or reward acquisition. So a small, active SG would have a smaller base but all the working Items of a larger, less active SG.

I admit that this could be gamed somewhat by recruiting a bunch of temporary members, buying a big base, then dumping said members. But so what? it's all virtual space anyway. You don't get the functional items unless you actually have the activity level to support it.

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What needs to be given

What needs to be given thought is: soupergroups may very well have subscribers and free-to-play- players as members. It would not be fair if one group gets all the good stuff because their leader subscribes and the rest just plays for free, while another soupergroup with a free-to-play leader but mostly subscribers as members gets only the free basics.

I would handle it this way: Subscribers get special items for their private bases and unlock more the longer they play. It would be nice to have choices there like "my charakter is a scientist so I pick this lab table rather than the medieval throne or the gun rack".
And then this player could have the option to make said lab table available for his soupergroup.

Lothic
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Lutan wrote:
Lutan wrote:

What needs to be given thought is: soupergroups may very well have subscribers and free-to-play- players as members. It would not be fair if one group gets all the good stuff because their leader subscribes and the rest just plays for free, while another soupergroup with a free-to-play leader but mostly subscribers as members gets only the free basics.
I would handle it this way: Subscribers get special items for their private bases and unlock more the longer they play. It would be nice to have choices there like "my charakter is a scientist so I pick this lab table rather than the medieval throne or the gun rack".
And then this player could have the option to make said lab table available for his soupergroup.

Well, in the interest of "fairness", maybe they could structure it so that a F2P player could ultimately get everything in their SG base a Sub player could have but they would end up having to pay extra to unlock some top-end features that Sub players would get either by default or maybe earn after being Subed for X amount of time.

For what it's worth I suspect that most people who are going to want to have big SG bases with lots of members are probably going to be Sub players just because they are likely going to want to play for long, continuous periods of time. But for those people who want to have big active SG bases and -not- be Sub players they could at least unlock the exact extras they want with microtransactions.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Lutan
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Yeah, but in my opinion this

Yeah, but in my opinion this would not solve the problem. Sorry if I'm offending, but I have the feeling you handle SG-bases like something a single player owns. Yes, someone will be the laeder, but it's still a group efford to build a base. And so every player in the group should be able to contribute.

If it all stands and falls depending on if the leader subscribes or not, I think most players would prefer subscribers as leaders for their supergroups. Hence my suggestion about every subscriber unlocking contend for the base builder for his own base and that of his supergroup.

There might be other more practicable solutions to deal with this. Maybe it could be possible for every player to donate "paragon points" (or whatever the currency you can buy for real money will be called in CoT) to the supergroup so they can unlock new stuff for the base builder.

Lothic
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The suggestion in my last

The suggestion in my last post would ultimately allow ANY player (Sub or F2P) to provide anything for their SG bases regardless of overall membership in the SG or regardless if they personally founded the SG or not. Not sure how that could be any fairer.

But for what it's worth we really still know practically nothing about how bases for this game is going to work. The Devs might even decide to let any player (Sub or F2P) have default access to all base features just to eliminate questions/problems like this. *shrugs*

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

JayBezz
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Sg things should be premium

Sg things should be premium and not free for anyone because it's very optional and people should be encouraged to pay for options. All SG items should be bought with sg resources. Rules for who can contribute to and who can spend sg resources should be set by the sg leader and made known to all inquiring minds.

My thoughts

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My Suggestion below involves

My Suggestion below involves two specific Assumptions:

Assumption 1: CoT will have "Personal Bases" (like the Bat Cave or the Fortress of Solitude) in addition to "SG Bases" (Like the JLA Watchtower or S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Hovercarrier.) "SG Bases" will be accessible only by SG members and "Personal Bases" will be accessible only by the Player and Friends (specifically on the friends lists although Team members could be set to "allow")

Assumption 2: CoT Supergroups will allow all players to be members, regardless of pay status (whether this is by general subscription or micro-subscription is irrelevant in this example)

Suggestion 1:
SG bases are unaffected by the pay status of their individual members, with no players given special capabilities or withheld from capabilities besides those restrictions determined by the SG leader (i.e. Permissions). As stated repeatedly in previous posts, trying to limit SG capabilities by individual member could only restrict SG activities by dint of hassle. Therefore, my suggestion is to treat all SG members according to SG rank rather than player type.

Where the different between "free" and "paying" comes in would be in the "Personal Bases". All Players would be able to make these "Personal Bases" but "free" players would only have access to Decorative items and could not, for example, place a teleporter in their living room. Their access to the Interior Design Architect system would be limited to only Non-Functional base items such as decorations with the exception of certain cases such as windows, doors, or costume change facilities. They could also be limited in Total Volume of their "Personal Base" as well but that is debatable.

Suggestion 2:
Referencing Discussion in the http://cityoftitans.com/forum/what-will-make-subscription-worth-buying Thread, I could see a potential Influence sink in having low 1-1,000 INF usage costs to using Functional items in an SG base, some or all of the proceeds going into a SG Treasury used for Expanding/Decorating the Base. Add the ability to transfer INF directly from Player supplies to the SG Treasury but not vice versa and we have a Group INF sink that could factor into Base Rent; or even replace the need for Base Rent if the Functional costs increase with the sophistication of the Functional Base items.

Ex: Using the Level 3 Base Teleporter to travel to Phoenix Plaza could cost 500 INF while using the level 7 Base Teleporter to the same destination could cost upwards of 1000. And using the Level 7 Teleporter to teleport directly to your Instance, an ability not available at the Level 3 Teleporter, could cost in excess of 10k.

In Addition, the costs of using these Functional Base items apply only to the SG Base. When purchasing Functional items for a Personal Base the item could be:
a) significantly more costly to craft,
b) require a monthly expenditure to keep the item operational,
c) Require a flat cost to "Activate" it for a certain time period during which it can be accessed for free. (paying to keep it active only when you plan to be using it), or
d) any of the above.

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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

Sg things should be premium and not free for anyone because it's very optional and people should be encouraged to pay for options. All SG items should be bought with sg resources. Rules for who can contribute to and who can spend sg resources should be set by the sg leader and made known to all inquiring minds.
My thoughts

I second this.

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jag40 wrote:
jag40 wrote:

Mystik Hippie wrote:
Understood...just a few suggestions in what would make a for a good base. Bases in both CO and DCUO are pretty lacking in many things. CoH hit it on the head with the initial concept...in that we had some control over placement of things. I think with the technology today, it can be taken further. If you will....think of how the house designer is in The Sims...apply that to bases/hideouts/lairs in CoT, and it would add another level of depth for those of us who like to not only role play, but also create.

i like this idea....having played the sims...its easy to create and personalize

Raph

Indeed.
Sims do have a mean(good) place to stay builder tool.

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Mystik Hippie wrote:
Mystik Hippie wrote:

I think with the technology today, it can be taken further. If you will....think of how the house designer is in The Sims...apply that to bases/hideouts/lairs in CoT, and it would add another level of depth for those of us who like to not only role play, but also create.

Likely mentioned elsewhere, but... To me, the ideal game for us role-players would be a cross between COH and The Sims. I want the ability to interact with other characters and objects. Click on a character to shake hands. Click on a chair to sit in it.

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Dynamistress wrote:
Dynamistress wrote:

Mystik Hippie wrote:
I think with the technology today, it can be taken further. If you will....think of how the house designer is in The Sims...apply that to bases/hideouts/lairs in CoT, and it would add another level of depth for those of us who like to not only role play, but also create.

Likely mentioned elsewhere, but... To me, the ideal game for us role-players would be a cross between COH and The Sims. I want the ability to interact with other characters and objects. Click on a character to shake hands. Click on a chair to sit in it.

Yes! This would be wonderful!

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Kiyori Anoyui
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Dynamistress wrote:
Dynamistress wrote:

Mystik Hippie wrote:
I think with the technology today, it can be taken further. If you will....think of how the house designer is in The Sims...apply that to bases/hideouts/lairs in CoT, and it would add another level of depth for those of us who like to not only role play, but also create.

Likely mentioned elsewhere, but... To me, the ideal game for us role-players would be a cross between COH and The Sims. I want the ability to interact with other characters and objects. Click on a character to shake hands. Click on a chair to sit in it.

I totally agree, this could make for a new type of hangout, a bunch of friends just sitting around in a penthouse chillin' after another victorious battle won just talking about life :)

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I don't know if the bases

I don't know if the bases will have real in game addresses,
but if they don't and we use base teleporters
I'd like to have windows available with different 3D views to choose from:
City Scapes
Underwater
Outer Space
Mountains
Castles
Jungles
Arctic (for that fortress of solitude feel)

and the views outside could change from day to night and maybe even change with seasons.
Of course if they do have real ingame locations that will determine the view and this wont work
and in any case underground bases wouldn't have windows.
just an idea to think about

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

I don't know if the bases will have real in game addresses,
but if they don't and we use base teleporters
I'd like to have windows available with different 3D views to choose from:
City Scapes
Underwater
Outer Space
Mountains
Castles
Jungles
Arctic (for that fortress of solitude feel)
and the views outside could change from day to night and maybe even change with seasons.
Of course if they do have real ingame locations that will determine the view and this wont work
and in any case underground bases wouldn't have windows.
just an idea to think about

Seconded!

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windows with a view would a

windows with a view would a nice lil thing to help alleviate the feeling of being in an oversized broom closet, shut off from the world...even if the window scene was static.

although, if there was a way to display a specific part of the city (whether ground level or 20 stories up) "live" that would be all kinds of awesome.

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I think I have read something

I think I have read something about windows for bases being planned. They would show an empty instance of the surroundings you have chosen for your base.

Edit: found the Kickstarter Update it was mentioned in! :)

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Cool thanks Lutan

Cool thanks Lutan

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Lutan wrote:
Lutan wrote:

I think I have read something about windows for bases being planned. They would show an empty instance of the surroundings you have chosen for your base.
Edit: found the Kickstarter Update it was mentioned in! :)

I hope one of those base types is 'orbiting space station'. One of bases I made back in CoH was a space station and I used one room to build an observation platform for characters to look out into empty space.

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OH Man! I meant to include

OH Man! I meant to include outer space in my suggestion.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

OH Man! I meant to include outer space in my suggestion.

You did, TMP. I was just re-emphasizing it. :)

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Mendicant wrote:
Mendicant wrote:

Lutan wrote:
I think I have read something about windows for bases being planned. They would show an empty instance of the surroundings you have chosen for your base.
Edit: found the Kickstarter Update it was mentioned in! :)

I hope one of those base types is 'orbiting space station'. One of bases I made back in CoH was a space station and I used one room to build an observation platform for characters to look out into empty space.

If you put another observation platform on the opposite side, you should be able to see the Earth. And it would be nice if there was an option to set the orientation, from Earth-is-down through Earth-is-off-that-side to Earth-is-up. And maybe a slider for how far away... Radio buttons for choice locations like L-5?

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

If you put another observation platform on the opposite side, you should be able to see the Earth. And it would be nice if there was an option to set the orientation, from Earth-is-down through Earth-is-off-that-side to Earth-is-up. And maybe a slider for how far away... Radio buttons for choice locations like L-5?

And it can be in a constant Gravitational Spin. ;D

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Outer space would be very

Outer space would be very nice indeed. I would also like a lava landscape like inside an active volcano...

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++++++

++++++

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I hope the only difference

I hope the only difference between personal and sg bases is the max size (and maybe not even that -- I was only 2 steps down from max in my personal vanity sg base when coh ended!), but mainly the items and design and customization should be the same (aside from say a few special item reserved for sg ala raids or banners, etc.)

The personal bases in Champions, and guild bases in DDO (spelljammer ships no less) and SW: The Old Republic are all terrible, sterile things with mount points for a handful of decorations and goodies.

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I know, I know, I'm late to

I know, I know, I'm late to the discussion (really late). But I thought I'd chime in my 2 cents. As far as Sub vs F2P, I think available themes should be the difference. While F2P might get normal, arcane, and sciency; Subs get those plus Fancy, Nuclear powered, (insert-element) magically infused, Underwater, etc.

As for SG vs Solo, I think they should actually get the same stuff just in different amounts. A SG would have the room for crafting/defenses/supercomputer/whatever else. But Solo would only have room for like 3 things.

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Persona Base Expansions could

Persona Base Expansions could be sold in the Store, in case you feel like you need your own, personal Batcave.

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Felpyre wrote:
Felpyre wrote:

As far as Sub vs F2P, I think available themes should be the difference. While F2P might get normal, arcane, and sciency; Subs get those plus Fancy, Nuclear powered, (insert-element) magically infused, Underwater, etc.

I agree that purely cosmetic differences like these are good subscription/cash shop fodder.
But

Felpyre wrote:

As for SG vs Solo, I think they should actually get the same stuff just in different amounts. A SG would have the room for crafting/defenses/supercomputer/whatever else. But Solo would only have room for like 3 things.

I don't see why a characters personal lair needs to be more restrictive than a group base.
Supergroup bases are mostly designed by either the groups leader or his inner circle. That means most others just do not get the same base building experience that those few do. I am not opposed to having it difficult for a lone player to 'earn' enough to design a big base but a cap on how much they can do is the wrong way to go.
There is also the idea of using base building as an IGC sink that gets ruined with size caps on individual bases.
Just something for you to think about.

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-The most and biggest thing i

-The most and biggest thing i want for Bases is Account wide EVERYTHING. One of DCUO's biggest fails, base-wise, is that they're character bound. Unlocking a piece on one character is stuck on that one character. I can't jump into a base for an alt to add or change anything and in fact, have to go in one by one and add special permissions for my own alts to use said bases. That's stupid and annoying. If anything, i want bases and items to be set as account wide. If i unlock or find a piece, any of my characters should be able to use and place it. If i'm on an alt, i should have full access to any of my bases at any time. Don't break it up, otherwise, you just break it.

-Set bases as SG's. How nice would it be for smaller SGs to be able to gather and use your main base as the headquarters? Like the batfam using the Cave as their own personal watchtower, or Oracle's Clocktower as a general hub for everyone. I fully believe super group bases should be bigger and more extensive in how it's handled but until then, it would be nice for smaller groups to be able to access a base for their needs. This would also be nice for when a person and all their alts IS their own personal supergroup, or when you get your friend in and they're just starting out.

-Animations and interactions. I would love to have base items and such, that allowed us to use them for animations and actual purposes. Bases need functionality and to feel "real" and lived in. Even having NPCs in there that actually moving, gesturing, and randomly using various points of interaction placed.

- Animated entrance/exits. Teleporters, vehicles, places to use your travel power. This could be just as simple as a loading screen with a screen grab of your last view and a generic animation of you activating your TP. It would be nice to actually get the sense of coming and going without SWTOR's full cutscenes or just a black screen and suddenly you're there... unless you teleport, i guess.

-One of the things i would love to see is customization for the Bases. Paid visuals and free visual, obviously, but there is one very distinct thing that would be interesting and set it apart from all other games.

Hamster cages.

Not literally, mind you, but in execution. Think of it like this. You get your own instance, one big empty blank box to place your base in. You get to set the theme of your box, which ends up two ways. Either

A) Settings like space, the city at day/night, underwater, or pretty much whatever you want to see when you look outside of the windows. or
B) Place, making it one large and open environment like the Batcave or other styles, where you can see anything from any point unless you set up walls.

Within Settings, you would have rooms that you could buy. Not rooms, per say, but add-ons like a hamster cage. Priced based on size and made to be connected directly or through tunnels, also themed to your setting. Places would still be able to buy rooms but they would be more like platforms or actual boxed enclosures with pillars and walkways instead of tunnels and halls. This would give them a good source of revenue without affecting gameplay, as well as allow for future editions and expansions to bases, meaning a simple yet popular type of content to add to the cash shop. Could you imagine building your space ship/station? Or filling your cavernous hideout? Simple safehouses in the city for the street level heroes and such would be a great addition. This way, you can set them up, like hamster cages, allowing for infinite freedoms and customization.

As a side note, adding this kind of feature would play well into future abilities to make our own missions, using the base builder to allow us to make custom interiors for player-generated content, as well as see items in a world before deciding to buy them in the cash shop for ourselves.

- Pricing. I feel like f2p people should get a freebie. A Smaller apartment or safehouse that they can place items and amenities but nothing larger or customizable. They can still place items and stuff, but they can't change the visuals of the place and setting itself. They would still be able to affordably by other styles and bases but they're stuck with a set piece. Subbers get the good stuff that you can expand with rooms earned and purchased but the main thing is that both F2P and Subs aren't being asked to pay too much for things. Item packs, rooms, themes, locations, any thing base related needs to be reasonably priced. Games like ESO and Champions ask for WAAAAAAY too much for how little their bases actually do. SWTOR has a great set up but nickle and dime you to the point that you're forced to actually pay money to open rooms that are already in the base you already paid for. I would rather pay to add a room that wasn't there than for access to a room that was built from the very start. This, like DLC, needs to be done right. When pricing, it's better to go low and numerous than high and few. Whales are always going to pay but pricing highly will push more people away than bring in. When it's low enough, i feel like i can't NOT buy it, but when it's too high, i feel like you're a greedy A-hole... like ESO and Cryptic games.

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Bases are quality of life and

Bases are quality of life and not necessary for play...They should be available only through the cash shop or through subs.
--even then subs will need to purchase a group base and vanity stuff for a personal base.

NO F2P free stuff. We need to keep a cash flow for a healthy MWM.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Bases are quality of life and not necessary for play...They should be available only through the cash shop or through subs.
--even then subs will need to purchase a group base and vanity stuff for a personal base.

NO F2P free stuff. We need to keep a cash flow for a healthy MWM.

You give them a basic base with only basic things. This then will encourage people to buy more things for the base, to spruce it up.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

NO F2P free stuff. We need to keep a cash flow for a healthy MWM.

This directly conflicts with the already communicated idea that a majority (I think they may have said ALL) of items will be able to be earned ingame on a per-character basis with the cash shop working as an account-wide unlock. Even then, there is no such thing as F2P in the projected model of CoT as the game will require ownership of the "box", being closer to B2P with an optional sub fee the same way ESO operates.

Going back to bases, in terms of limitations for a regular vs premium player I would imagine premium should have "better" options if that makes sense. If a regular player has a base size limit of 40x40 squares with the possibility to "expand" to 80x80 for IGC, a premium should have a size limit of 60x60 squares with the possibility to expand to 120x120 for IGC. A regular player would be able to summon guests one at a time into his base while a premium can call out AVENGERS ASSEMBLE and have dozens arrive at once. Premium simply enhances things that are not crucial and nothing is locked behind it that would ruin the overall experience (Looking at you DCUO..). Perhaps Premium would allow most customization options to be available right at the start (aside from special/rare things like the super rare drop Dr. Tyche's Beard Grooming Station) whereas regular would have some of the essentials and the rest would need to be bought through the Bases-to-Go store with IGC.

Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...

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Having a power to Avengers

Having a power to Avengers Assemble!™ Your group members any time any where would be pretty sweet.

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You're quickly going to run

You're quickly going to run into the distinction of Personal Housing versus Communal Housing. My personal opinion is ... Let's Do Both.

Basically, the Supergroup Base is effectively Communal. It's where a group of Players communally "stash their stuff" and pool their resources for Shiny Stuffs™. A Supergroup Base ought to be all about what the members share in common together.

But then you've got the Personal side of things. Taken to extremes, there's the notion that everyone ought to get "their own Room" somewhere in the communal space of the Supergroup Base. Well ... the easiest way to handle that is to ... compartmentalize.

Basically what you do is you give every PC what amounts to a Personal Housing space for them to decorate as they please. This is primarily a sandbox to have fun with, rather than something to provide services and functionality. It's basically as important as making a costume is, except you're doing it for a living space, rather than for an avatar. It's just another opportunity to express yourself and personalize your character.

But then ... you allow the Personal Housing space to "link" to your Supergroup's Base. This could be by matter transporter, by summoning circle, by elevator, trap door ... whatever ... so long as it fulfills the role of working like a Mission Door where you exit the instance of your Personal Housing and enter/exit the Supergroup Base. Functionally all you're doing is "linking" a personal space to a shared space. After that, it's just a matter of permission settings to determine how "private" you want your personal space to be (others can enter by "invite only" or by being in a Team with you, or others can enter/exit freely from the SG Base).

That way, EVERYONE gets a space that they can have fun with (and learn the Base Editor system from) which is THEIR sandbox to play in, while at the same time allowing for a larger "shared" space that can be governed/maintained by the appropriately authorized people of the Supergroup. All you need are "transfer items" to put into the SG Base and the Personal Housing spaces to allow movement between the instances. On the SG side of things, this could even be an item that's allowed to retain multiple entries so as to pick and choose from multiple options which one you want to go to, with a variety of filtering options (show all, show accessible only, show mine only, etc.).

Have your cake and eat it too, and the best part is that both systems would essentially re-use the exact same programming to achieve both functions. Build it right for one and you get both.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

You're quickly going to run into the distinction of Personal Housing versus Communal Housing. My personal opinion is ... Let's Do Both.

Basically, the Supergroup Base is effectively Communal. It's where a group of Players communally "stash their stuff" and pool their resources for Shiny Stuffs™. A Supergroup Base ought to be all about what the members share in common together.

But then you've got the Personal side of things. Taken to extremes, there's the notion that everyone ought to get "their own Room" somewhere in the communal space of the Supergroup Base. Well ... the easiest way to handle that is to ... compartmentalize.

Basically what you do is you give every PC what amounts to a Personal Housing space for them to decorate as they please. This is primarily a sandbox to have fun with, rather than something to provide services and functionality. It's basically as important as making a costume is, except you're doing it for a living space, rather than for an avatar. It's just another opportunity to express yourself and personalize your character.

But then ... you allow the Personal Housing space to "link" to your Supergroup's Base. This could be by matter transporter, by summoning circle, by elevator, trap door ... whatever ... so long as it fulfills the role of working like a Mission Door where you exit the instance of your Personal Housing and enter/exit the Supergroup Base. Functionally all you're doing is "linking" a personal space to a shared space. After that, it's just a matter of permission settings to determine how "private" you want your personal space to be (others can enter by "invite only" or by being in a Team with you, or others can enter/exit freely from the SG Base).

That way, EVERYONE gets a space that they can have fun with (and learn the Base Editor system from) which is THEIR sandbox to play in, while at the same time allowing for a larger "shared" space that can be governed/maintained by the appropriately authorized people of the Supergroup. All you need are "transfer items" to put into the SG Base and the Personal Housing spaces to allow movement between the instances. On the SG side of things, this could even be an item that's allowed to retain multiple entries so as to pick and choose from multiple options which one you want to go to, with a variety of filtering options (show all, show accessible only, show mine only, etc.).

Have your cake and eat it too, and the best part is that both systems would essentially re-use the exact same programming to achieve both functions. Build it right for one and you get both.

I find your use of separate instances here, for housing and ST base, interesting. I've no idea if it's the best way to do it or not, but it's something I hadn't considered. The main challenge as I see it would be is it to wasteful of resources at the 1 person ST level? Granted it would ramp up in efficiency the larger the Super Team or even League get, but ultimately it's a question of accurately guessing how folks will play when it comes to STs. It's a tricky question and one of the few the CoH devs got wrong imho.

There are two extremes here as I see it. (And yes, plenty of room between them.)
1. Almost every player has each character in a one person ST with as lavish a base as they can get. Which may be a growing strain on the servers. (But again, I don't actually know how this works.)

2. The maxed out League has integrated housing with all bases linked. Each base having been exquisitely decorated by the folks many in the game consider the best. Entering the base has become a good time to make a sandwich for those with top end rigs. For those with less robust equipment it's a dice game with disconnection. And for those unfortunate souls that are barely minimum spec,... some are never heard from again, but videos start to surface of machines exploding in a burst of technicolor flame that momentarily accesses the 17.3rd dimension...

Makes me glad I'm building my own rig soon.

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I really like Redlynne's idea

I really like Redlynne's idea.

From a game economics point of view, we want to make big glorious bases expensive, but at the same time we don't want to price players out of having their own lairs.

For this discussion I'm going to use the word lair for a person's own property and the word base for the group property.

It makes sense that every player, even the F2P players, get a lair. It should be a small place without many bells or whistles. In-game currency as well as cash/stars should provide the resources to upgrade it, whether that be by moving to a new place or by building on to what is already there. Maybe some start options would be different than others. I think DCUO did a good job with their personal lairs, by associating certain types of lairs with certain entrance locations. But DCUO didn't give us the option of making a posh bedroom inside a sewer lair, for example. So entrance locations should only provide us with the style of the first room and we should get to pick or design our styles after that as we add space and facilities.

If a group of characters wants a communal base, they should start off with the same thing and upgrade it themselves. Then when they can afford it, they can add a "link" from their own lairs to their group base just like Redlynne proposed. I think any link has to be purchased on both ends. And that's all there needs to be to discriminate between a group base and an individual's base.

In other words, there should be no difference between a group base and an individual lair other than who owns it. And I expect group bases would naturally end up with all the links to player lairs in them, but only because that solution is most economical and also provides a central hub. With this way of doing it, nothing is stopping players from linking to each other's lairs other than cost and privacy.

Group bases need to be owned by the group, no matter how many characters are in the group. All the members of a supergroup can donate towards the central fund to upgrade the group base. It would work even easier if supergroups have the ability to tax their members. This way, pooling a little bit from a number of people will facilitate grand bases because it spreads the expenses out among all the members. Of course, nothing but the raw expense would stop any individuals from making their own lairs as awesome as any group base. So single account or even single character supergroups would not be restricted in any way.

I recommend that if a player chooses to declare his or her own character's personal lair as a group base (and thereby make it eligible to use group resources to upgrade it), then they should not have the ability to make it heir own again after that. Otherwise we would see unscrupulous individuals taking all the groups' resources to make their own bases superlative and then leaving or disbanding the groups. Of course, since there isn't any actual difference between group bases and personal lairs, if a character wanted to make his or her own lair into a defacto group base without transferring ownership to the group, that could still be done, but only private funds could be used, not pooled group resources..


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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I like this idea too !

I like this idea too !
It reminds me the housing in Everquest :)

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Note that the idea of

Note that the idea of Personal Housing <--> Supergroup Base being linked instances through an interactive object in both instances, once implemented, is something that can be extended even further ... to Coalitions. So ultimately, you'd have this functionality:

Personal Housing <--> Supergroup Base <--> Coalition Supergroup Bases

Note that this last functionality already existed in City of Heroes. Any time you went to a Base Entrance Portal, whether it be in the shared world or inside your own Base, the menu that popped up showed you all of the Supergroup Bases in your coalition so that you could enter any of them.

All you'd have to do in the context of the idea I'm proposing here is create Another Service Item that basically does the same "job" as a Base Entrance Portal (which switches the instance the PC is in). The basic underlying game code would be the same, the only difference would be the list of destinations. For one type of object, it's the Personal Housing <--> Supergroup Base "exchange" ... and for another type of object, it's the World <--> Supergroup Base <--> Coalition Supergroup Bases "exchange" options list. Aside from ART (appearance, visual and sound FX, etc.), the FUNCTION is exactly the same ... the only thing that's different is where the pointers "go" in the database for cross-linking stuff together.

And Impulse King, you seem to misunderstanding something. I'm talking about individual instances. The game would be loading only ONE instance for the PC to "be in" at a time. It wouldn't be loading ALL of the instances at the same time. So if you had a Supergroup with 100 members and 80 of them had their own "personal housing" rooms associated with the Base, upon zoning into the Base you wouldn't be loading 1+80=81 instances. You'd be loading only one instance (the Base). If you transferred to someone's room, you'd LEAVE the Base and enter the ONE instance of that personal room.

If it helps, think if the Personal Housing part of it as being like "mini-bases" that extend the Coalition "downwards" ... while the Coalition of Supergroups extends "upwards" to partner multiple Supergroups together. It's basically the same thing ... so why not reuse the code that makes all of that possible (and desirable)?


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If we can link personal bases

If we can link personal bases to a supergroup teleport a few neat things..

Depending on the size of the personal bases you could collaborate with super team members to make it seem like a base has multiple floors (if such a thing can't be done normally) or have people's personal bases be specific rooms. The latter part of that would work well for a new super team as it would mean that their base size would be the basic base plot and then member number of "rooms" making an early base seem/feel much larger.

Hopefully even if you can link personal bases to super team bases you, as the personal base owner, can set permissions to allow or disallow super team members from entering. Batman doesn't let the entire league into the bat cave, Superman doesn't let the entire league into his fortress of solitude, and Wonder Woman doesn't like people just traipsing all over Temyscira.

Hopefully with personal bases we can have things like small island, other world, and hellscape for options. Even if it's just out a window or something. Having a villain with his own private island would be sweet. Ooh also a personal base that's like Doom's castle. Where you can look out a window and see what looks to be a eastern European town/city/countryside.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

And Impulse King, you seem to misunderstanding something. I'm talking about individual instances. The game would be loading only ONE instance for the PC to "be in" at a time. It wouldn't be loading ALL of the instances at the same time. So if you had a Supergroup with 100 members and 80 of them had their own "personal housing" rooms associated with the Base, upon zoning into the Base you wouldn't be loading 1+80=81 instances. You'd be loading only one instance (the Base). If you transferred to someone's room, you'd LEAVE the Base and enter the ONE instance of that personal room.

If it helps, think if the Personal Housing part of it as being like "mini-bases" that extend the Coalition "downwards" ... while the Coalition of Supergroups extends "upwards" to partner multiple Supergroups together. It's basically the same thing ... so why not reuse the code that makes all of that possible (and desirable)?

Oh you were delightfully clear. I was attempting to contrast your idea to the opposing concept of loading everything at once and show where both might be at their worst.

And then I went off on a tangent...

I'm very much looking forward to learning what plans MWM has for bases. I can only imagine the focus they are devoting to it after bases had so many challenges in CoH. (Somewhere I imagine there is an early design goal document where every 10th line is "Document the code for bases!!".)

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Red’s idea isn’t too far off

Red’s idea isn’t too far off from our original concepts for base design. There are implications which have not been discussed, nor could they because certain particualrs of base design have not been released.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Red’s idea isn’t too far off from our original concepts for base design.

Mainly because there's only but so many ways to design a wheel that works.


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OK many things being said. I

OK many things being said. I for one need to have a base of operation. Actually i think its something granted as you go along through the story not something given. but we must have a variety of selections, DCU had the right idea as to placement, but not variety our idea wise. We need to be able to make our own variations of bases just like COH did. Meaning having full control of the materials/textures of course having some unlocked for events gameplay etc..

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I don't want size or item

I don't want size or item limits. I will be a sub and have no problems buying mini-packs to upgrade size and items you can place. But I want access somehow to a really large base.

I will do a vanity SG again if I have to, but I don't want to have to.

Anyhoodles, here's a cool idea that may not be too hard to implement: base attach points in zones. But wait! It is impossible to do with tens of thousands trying to crowd into the cool areas!

Yes. But you could have a dozen or so attach points, then it phase shifts just to you, your group, your SG depending, for entry and exit.

Imagine, say, being on the 5th floor of a building, walking out to your base balcony, and looking down on other characters in the main zone phase running around, e.g. under Atlas. You leap off, you "zone" into the real main zone and phase shift in ala switching servers in WoW when joining or leaving a world quest group (formed by joiners from different shards.)

Others look up, they can't see you unless they are in your group or SG. They could fly up and in that way of go thru the lobby and elevator and down the hall in the front door.

If zone/server/instance phase technology is available ala WoW, this would work.

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Champions Online had a base

Champions Online had a base that looked out over the city. If you jumped out to it you just ended up back at the entry point. Like, where you spawn in when you enter the base.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Champions Online had a base that looked out over the city. If you jumped out to it you just ended up back at the entry point. Like, where you spawn in when you enter the base.

OTOH, if you flew out, a button would appear allowing you to respawn at the Super Jet, where you would spawn if returning to MC from other zones. If you could stop in time to press it, that is. Pass it up, back to the elevator!

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