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Join the ongoing conversation on Discord: https://discord.gg/w6Tpkp2

Please read the current update for instructions on downloading the latest update. Players with Mac versions of the game will not be affected, but you will have a slightly longer wait for your version of the new maps. Please make a copy of your character folder before running the new update, just to make sure you don't lose any of your custom work.

It looks like we can give everyone a list of minimum specs for running City of Titans. Please keep in mind that this is 'for now' until we are able to add more graphics and other system refinements. Currently you will need :
Windows 10 or later required; no Intel integrated graphics like UHD, must have AMD or NVIDIA card or discrete chipset with 4Gb or more of VRAM
At least 16GB of main DRAM.
These stats may change as we continue to test.

To purchase your copy of the City of Titans Launcher, visit our store at https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/ A purchase of $50 or more will give you a link to download the Launcher for Windows or Mac based machines.

The balance of information and development

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Pyromantic
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The balance of information and development

One of the comments that came out of Pax was that there are updates MWM has planned to write, but they haven't come out because the best people to write them are working hard on development.

Let me first say that I've been struck recently by the dedication to this game shown by MWM. Development of a project of this magnitude on a voluntary basis over several years by many people is an extraordinary feat. I am extremely grateful to those volunteers and I certainly do not fault anyone for working on the game rather than writing an update about it.

I am curious how important the community feels it is for us to get more information at this stage. Part of me just says it really doesn't matter; by the time we're actually off playing, the information will obviously be there. But admittedly I'm also really eager to find out more about certain things, such as the teased augment/refinement update. I also noticed in the Pax video that some of the powers used showed text indicating status effects ("char," "stun" and "immobilized" were the ones I saw.) For me personally, mechanical character customization and (as a former avid controller player) crowd controls top the list of things I'd love to know more about. It's kind of funny but I'm finding some tension between my eagerness to play the game and my eagerness to find out about the game--though I know it all comes down to the excitement I feel at the prospect of a new virtual home. So how do others feel? Are there things you really want to know about, or would you rather they just not worry about it at all right now?

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I worry that this "virtual

I worry that this "virtual home" as you accurately called it, will not live up to the same feelings I had while playing COH. It's like I don't quite know how to verbally express what I need for this to be a home so I focus on little things, like the animation being off, or the pose not looking right. I know they have done so much work and I don't think im someone who badgers them for proof, but in the back of my mind, I just keep thinking if this will live up to that same feeling I had in COH. Ive tried so many games and been so disappointed, and I would hate to log into COT when its finally there, and just not feel the same. I do trust the team and MWM, its just my paranoia lol.

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Cobalt Azurean
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I don't mind updates now and

I don't mind updates now and again, but if it came down to being between some post somewhere or development, my preference would be to focus on development.

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In a lot of game systems,

In a lot of game systems, "Talking Is A Free Action" is one of the game principles that you can rely on while playing the game. Needless to say, this does NOT apply while the game is in development.

;P


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Geveo
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I'll say this: I check these

I'll say this: I check these forums a lot more often now that it feels like we're getting close. For years I would stay away for months at a time, because there was no point in getting antsy. Now, I'll admit, I'm getting antsy.

Glad to see updates; glad to give feedback if/when it's going to be useful; glad to wait patiently if that's what it takes.

Kid Rad
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I would be much more patient

I would be much more patient in my waiting if there was a more organized presentation of progress, and demonstration of goals, timelines, or some other way to show that you are shooting for specific accomplishments, and what those are. Gives us a picture of where things stand, and how much more you have to do. The twitch is nice, and a good step, definitely. But a more specific look at where things are and where they are going would be very reassuring, especially to those who hope to support things financially in the next round of funding.

That said, I know how hard it is to do this stuff, while balancing development, so I don't blame you too much for not focusing on it. But it needs to come about at some point.

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Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

I worry that this "virtual home" as you accurately called it, will not live up to the same feelings I had while playing COH. It's like I don't quite know how to verbally express what I need for this to be a home so I focus on little things, like the animation being off, or the pose not looking right. I know they have done so much work and I don't think im someone who badgers them for proof, but in the back of my mind, I just keep thinking if this will live up to that same feeling I had in COH. Ive tried so many games and been so disappointed, and I would hate to log into COT when its finally there, and just not feel the same. I do trust the team and MWM, its just my paranoia lol.

I have the same worry and why when I see them looking like they want to emulate some crap aesthetic that I'm not sure if I'm playing VO or SoH or possibly that ugly as sin ME series. :p

Seriously though, I hear complaints about the style of VO's look and the characters in CoT look just like them so far. Could one comic super hero mmo not look like a decent comic book art style like CoH did?

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If it is any comfort to

If it is any comfort to anyone, City of Tabbies *will* have ... AMERIKATT!

That will be one thing to remind everyone of our old home in City of Hairballs!

*purrs loudly and proudly*

Kid Rad
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Yea.....

Yea.....

Scott Jackson
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From my perspective, Kid Rad

From my perspective, Kid Rad is right. SoH seems to have built a great deal of confidence among their supporters by having a published schedule (at least of high-level progress steps) and showing each major step forward.

At this point, I couldn't say whether CoT is mostly on schedule, despite watching all Twitch streams. I've seen the museum map instance which seems to be the closest to a working game that exists, but don't know whether the other pieces are anywhere close to being ready to get merged with it.

We have seen:
Multiple players in the same instance (done, twitch streams on museum map)
Basic bodyslider / costume hats / basic colors in Avatar Builder a.k.a. AB (done, latest twitch stream on museum map)
Basic targeting system (partly functioning, twitch streams on museum map)
Movement powers (2 of 4+) superspeed and superjump (partly functioning, twitch streams on museum map)
Two instance maps with good interior detailing (Bank and Corporate HQ), but no enemy spawns. (recent twitch streams)

We don't know about the status of:
Launcher / downloader? (in progress on recent stream)
AB Body sliders beyond the basics?
AB Costume parts other than hats?
AB Selecting powersets and starting powers?
AB Aesthetically decoupled power customization process?
AB Functioning as a package?
Walking around a (partly complete) city with a character created through the AB?
Talking to NPC contacts?
Enemies spawning?
Combat in the city?
Completing an open world mission?
Entering any instanced mission map from the city?
Combat in an instanced mission, with various enemy types and tiers?
Completing an instanced mission?
Rewards (xp/currency/items) being granted for mission completions and enemy defeats?
Functioning NPC shops?
Selecting new powers after level-up and seeing other effects such as increasing health or other stats?
Slotting items?

I can think of many such milestones that would mark significant successes when bundled together.
If many of these were listed in some schedule, it would be deeply reassuring to know there is such a schedule, to see it, and to watch the items get checked off over time.

Kid Rad
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Honestly, high level goals

Honestly, high level goals and progress would be fine with me. "This month we fixed 21 bugs, added and refined maps, and added 10 components to the character creator". It doesn't have to be more specific than that. It would also be nice to see something like "We plan to have a launcher finished by this date, AB by this date, 2 new maps by this date", and if these targets don't get met, no biggie, but then to be able to update and say "we didn't realize how much more we had to do on this or that, so the projected date of completion of that component is now a month or 5 months later. No one will bite your head off for delays, as long as there is communication. I would think this sort of write up would not be too difficult or tedious to do, and the sort of info that should be readily available to anyone who is actively involved in the development process.

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Oh, I bet there will be

Oh, I bet there will be plenty of head-biting, hair-pulling, lamentations, and doom-saying if the Devs ever admit to being behind on a feature. Just let it go and let them focus on making the game.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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I've said before that I

I've said before that I believe our desire for information about the game is a Want and not a Need. Would I love to know more about the game right now? Sure. But I think it's more important that MWM get on with the task of actually making that game. I certainly don't think we are entitled to any updates at all if MWM chooses not to provide them.

I share some of the worries regarding whether the final product will be what I'm looking for (mostly around aesthetics and combat mechanics) but I don't think any update while development is still going on will answer those questions definitively. Things could change between any update and release day. I also don't think it's important what folks think about CoT right now. The only evaluation that will matter will occur when people actually get to play the game.

My mantra here is to hope for info but to expect none, and to acknowledge that it's solely up to MWM to decide when/if to tell us anything.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I've said before that I believe our desire for information about the game is a Want and not a Need. Would I love to know more about the game right now? Sure. But I think it's more important that MWM get on with the task of actually making that game. I certainly don't think we are entitled to any updates at all if MWM chooses not to provide them.

That's the gist of it, and I agree with the OP. I believe most of us here realize that we can either get updates or get what everyone really wants that much sooner: game play videos. The Twitch streams are quite a good compromise on that front.

Will I like everything about this game? No. I'd be setting myself up for disappointment if I thought I would. I didn't like everything about WoW, and that's the most polished MMO on the market.

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One thing I notice in the

One thing I notice in the discussion is that you can break down information about the game into two basic categories: what the game will look like at release and the actual process of development. Priorities seem to differ quite a bit on these.

For me, the thing I'm most curious about is how the game will look at release, especially in mechanics. I suppose this is because it was the mechanics of CoH that really hooked me. That's a little peculiar, because from what I've heard many of the mechanics were happy accidents. The key thing for me was that my character felt like my character, aesthetically but also mechanically. So many games give you access to all skills of a particular class by the time you reach level cap and make it a trivial process to completely rework your character at a moment's notice. Indeed that is generally held up as a feature, but it's one of the things I really don't want. So I get nervous when I read something that suggests CoT may be headed in that direction. We haven't gotten a lot of information about how characters are built so I'm extremely curious.

On the other hand, I don't really care to hear about the details of what the team is working on at any particular moment (though I can certainly appreciate that other people do care.) I guess it just wouldn't mean much to me, because I don't have a sense of context to it and I trust that work is ongoing.

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I am with many as I would

I am with many as I would rather they work on the project than provide updates. I have actually looked at the Heroes and Villains site and they provide a weekly update. It is basically this week we were focusing on this or that but really it doesn't tell you much of anything. They are one game that has shown very little past concept art. I think that after CoT has the next fundraiser and have dedicated paid staff, they will be able to appoint someone focused on providing more glimpses and announcements. I was happy to wait patiently as well until I got onto Paragon Chat. Now I realize how much I miss the old game and just want to be able to fight for justice again.

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The thing that bothers me

The thing that bothers me here is that people act like it has to be an either or. If they release updates, that development will suffer. I don't see this to be true at all. Many many other projects seem to be able to manage this just fine. Frankly, the fact that this group has trouble balancing two things at once makes me concerned for their competence and ability to manage the game that they envision. And the fact that you'd rather be kept in the dark than know whether your developers are on schedule, massively behind schedule, or where they are in general, is rather sad to me. You should want accountability, and not be blindly faithful that they will deliver.

It is really low effort to release information and videos, since it could easily be integrated into the development process by taking notes as you go (as any organized and professional developer should do anyway), and/or capturing video as you go. It doesn't have to be perfect, but some behind the scenes look should be easy, and would make a lot of people feel a lot more confident
and supportive. It is true that this is a want, and not a need, but it is also true that I *want* to donate to their second chance funding. I don't need to.

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I would feel responsible to

I would feel responsible to provide any person or group with a pretty good sense of project status if they'd given me a fair amount of money for that project. It's not about what they need or want, but what benefits everyone involved - a public schedule builds my reputation for on-time projects with satisfied customers...customers who share that fact by word-of-mouth and spend more money on projects that are handled with rigorous quality in both design and communication.

SoH has much less funding to date from their community, yet they have a published high-level schedule, and note when milestones are achieved. No matter which game design a person prefers, the communication and development techniques are important for a strong community and a successful launch. By working toward a published schedule, a volunteer MMO development effort has built confidence among their supporters. If MWM wants that benefit (and higher donations / better word-of-mouth advertising that follow), they now have an nearby example of it (SoH website -> Philosophy -> Schedule to Release).

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

The thing that bothers me here is that people act like it has to be an either or. If they release updates, that development will suffer. I don't see this to be true at all. Many many other projects seem to be able to manage this just fine. Frankly, the fact that this group has trouble balancing two things at once makes me concerned for their competence and ability to manage the game that they envision. And the fact that you'd rather be kept in the dark than know whether your developers are on schedule, massively behind schedule, or where they are in general, is rather sad to me. You should want accountability, and not be blindly faithful that they will deliver.
It is really low effort to release information and videos, since it could easily be integrated into the development process by taking notes as you go (as any organized and professional developer should do anyway), and/or capturing video as you go. It doesn't have to be perfect, but some behind the scenes look should be easy, and would make a lot of people feel a lot more confident
and supportive. It is true that this is a want, and not a need, but it is also true that I *want* to donate to their second chance funding. I don't need to.

I can only speak for myself here, but it isn't that I'd rather be kept in the dark about scheduling. It's just that I don't need to see the details of who's working on what and which piece gets finished when. The Fall 2018 release date was based on the fact that MWM had an internal schedule and that they were able to stay on track with it for 6 months, so I already feel reassured of that. I imagine also that as systems come into relative completion, the big question mark that remains is how smoothly they can be integrated into a single whole. At Pax Dr. Tyche explained that is highly unpredictable. Could happen practically overnight, or could take significant time to work out the bugs. So from my point of view, if I was going to hear something about the game I'd rather it be about the finished product. I don't really need to see how the sausage is getting made.

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

The thing that bothers me here is that people act like it has to be an either or. If they release updates, that development will suffer. I don't see this to be true at all. Many many other projects seem to be able to manage this just fine. Frankly, the fact that this group has trouble balancing two things at once makes me concerned for their competence and ability to manage the game that they envision. And the fact that you'd rather be kept in the dark than know whether your developers are on schedule, massively behind schedule, or where they are in general, is rather sad to me. You should want accountability, and not be blindly faithful that they will deliver.
It is really low effort to release information and videos, since it could easily be integrated into the development process by taking notes as you go (as any organized and professional developer should do anyway), and/or capturing video as you go. It doesn't have to be perfect, but some behind the scenes look should be easy, and would make a lot of people feel a lot more confident
and supportive. It is true that this is a want, and not a need, but it is also true that I *want* to donate to their second chance funding. I don't need to.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I've said before that I believe our desire for information about the game is a Want and not a Need. Would I love to know more about the game right now? Sure. But I think it's more important that MWM get on with the task of actually making that game. I certainly don't think we are entitled to any updates at all if MWM chooses not to provide them.

I share some of the worries regarding whether the final product will be what I'm looking for (mostly around aesthetics and combat mechanics) but I don't think any update while development is still going on will answer those questions definitively. Things could change between any update and release day. I also don't think it's important what folks think about CoT right now. The only evaluation that will matter will occur when people actually get to play the game.

My mantra here is to hope for info but to expect none, and to acknowledge that it's solely up to MWM to decide when/if to tell us anything.

Pyromantic wrote:

I can only speak for myself here, but it isn't that I'd rather be kept in the dark about scheduling. It's just that I don't need to see the details of who's working on what and which piece gets finished when. The Fall 2018 release date was based on the fact that MWM had an internal schedule and that they were able to stay on track with it for 6 months, so I already feel reassured of that. I imagine also that as systems come into relative completion, the big question mark that remains is how smoothly they can be integrated into a single whole. At Pax Dr. Tyche explained that is highly unpredictable. Could happen practically overnight, or could take significant time to work out the bugs. So from my point of view, if I was going to hear something about the game I'd rather it be about the finished product. I don't really need to see how the sausage is getting made.

These are basically my views on the matter as well. I love getting the updates and little glimpses of the game in production, but I don't NEED to seem them, nor do I believe they MUST provide them. I'd much rather the devs expend most of their energy on actually putting the game together, so that I can eventually play the game.

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I think you don't event guess

I think you don't event guess how much time it takes to gather informations on "what is done", "what will be done in a just weeks" and "what will be done in some monthes" as well as it's tahe lots of time to allocate the different type of element as bug, evolution, rework, stuffs to do, etc etc... Believe me, it takes really a big part of time to make that correctly, even if it's well prepared.
I prefere MWM to do that stuff internal to keep their progress than to "loose" time to display this kind of things :) It would cost to much time to inform people in a precise degree like that.
Nonetheless, having a view on "we stand on the date to launch our pre alpha" or "we'll be able to make a full playable system release on that date" could be a really nice high level view ^^


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Whether it takes time to

Whether it takes time to collect that information or not, collecting that information is absolutely essential to managing manpower and making accurate deadlines and prognosticating whether deadlines can be met or not. If MWM is not collecting this information, I would be very surprised and deeply disappointed.

Sharing that information with us, on the other hand, is a completely different issue. For all the reasons set forth by others, I do not think it would be wise or warranted to share the itty bitty details of daily business.

Heroic Games (Ship of Heroes) has obviously put more focus into their project management efforts and it has paid off in spades, getting them a seat on the Pax forum less than a year after they announced they even existed. MWM could learn a lot from that, but then, do they really need to at this point? Perhaps. All the people claiming CoT is vaporware in the other projects' forums are probably a direct result of the lack of project management and marketing that MWM has exhibited. Are those opinions worth fretting over? MWM thinks not. And I kind of agree with them. MWM does still feel like an amateurish effort right now because of the lack of a professional front office, but if the final product is going to knock my socks off anyway, it probably won't matter in the end.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

MWM does still feel like an amateurish effort right now because of the lack of a professional front office, but if the final product is going to knock my socks off anyway, it probably won't matter in the end.

Everything you said is perfectly valid, but I do want to mention that it is very hard for me or anyone else who isn't a true believer in this game to know what exactly the end product will be like. Yea there have been streams with some very basic systems, and lots of lore posted, but how will all of this combine, and what is the overall vision for the game? It is hard to say because the website is a jumbled mess of information, and as was pointed out on another thread, you really have to hunt on multiple websites to find what you are looking for.

This may have partially to do with their development style, where things come together at the end, but if there was some outlay of where things stand on a regular basis, as well as where they are shooting for, and a well organized website, I would have a lot more confidence. Right now it is "we're not done yet" and they're shooting for "done". And the information that they do give is basically dumped in a pile for you to sort through.

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Huckleberry wrote:
MWM does still feel like an amateurish effort right now because of the lack of a professional front office, but if the final product is going to knock my socks off anyway, it probably won't matter in the end.
Everything you said is perfectly valid, but I do want to mention that it is very hard for me or anyone else who isn't a true believer in this game to know what exactly the end product will be like. Yea there have been streams with some very basic systems, and lots of lore posted, but how will all of this combine, and what is the overall vision for the game? It is hard to say because the website is a jumbled mess of information, and as was pointed out on another thread, you really have to hunt on multiple websites to find what you are looking for.
This may have partially to do with their development style, where things come together at the end, but if there was some outlay of where things stand on a regular basis, as well as where they are shooting for, and a well organized website, I would have a lot more confidence. Right now it is "we're not done yet" and they're shooting for "done". And the information that they do give is basically dumped in a pile for you to sort through.

Your point is truly made and I agree.

I guess it comes down to whether or not MWM cares about that opinion. Said another way: if you did get that confidence you are currently lacking, how would that effect the development of the game?

Would it result in more funding for the project? Would it result in more people playing the game when it comes out?

Maybe. Certainly more and better presented information would result in a more positive collective view among the industry and gaming community and increase hype for the product. The question for the Project Management team is what is the return on investment. Is the increased hype and reputation of the project going to pay for the resources spent generating it?

Dr. Tyche and others have stated that they don't need the money right now (which I think is ludicrous because more money means more resources can be brought to bear on the project) but if money is not an issue right now, then it seems that the cost of having a good front office would thus not be an issue. And since the cost is not an issue, then by definition, the return on investment is going to be positive. Accordingly, it sure seems that putting a good front office together should be a no-brainer for MWM.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Quote:
Quote:

Would it result in more funding for the project? Would it result in more people playing the game when it comes out?

Yes, definitely to the first. Maybe to the second, but as you said, once the game comes out, it should be able to speak for itself. Unless they never get their PR game together, in which case I do think the player base will suffer.

The whole reason I am pushing for this is because I really want to support them in their second round funding. If I don't see some improvement in this area, I am not going to be inclined to pony up. If I had been conscious of the project back when they did the Kickstarter, I would have easily donated back then. But now, given the way the project is being presented, well, I have my reservations.

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Don't forget to think that

Keep in mind that MWM is assembling all the pieces right now in a playable pre-alpha version. This is the part from which, i think, we'll have further more sure informations of the roadmap until the launch. At this point, it probably would be easier to inform on each landmark date and if these landmarks will be reachable or not on date.


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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

Keep in mind that MWM is assembling all the pieces right now in a playable pre-alpha version. This is the part from which, i think, we'll have further more sure informations of the roadmap until the launch.

With an all volunteer group, this is basically what I expected. Until it's in alpha, future dates are too fuzzy. Though more frequent progress reports would certainly be welcome.

Pyromantic
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My own desire to get more

My own desire to get more information about the game mechanics has led me to reread a number of relevant updates over the past day. I also skimmed the discussion threads for comments from devs to see what else I could glean. It reminded me about a number of things and gave me a little more sense of how the game will play than I had beforehand. Though a lot of those updates are about three years old (momentum, augments/refinements, masteries among them) and I wonder how things have progressed.

It also made me question how much these things actually will be transparent when the game is live. Do we know whether there will be something akin to the Real Numbers update in CoH? I'm a strong believer that players should be able to see the mechanics and numbers behind things so that they can make informed choices about building characters. While I know some have concerns about this leading to a min/max, elitist culture, that wasn't my experience at all with CoH. It think the breaking of the trinity and inclusion of strong buffs/debuffs/controls leads the game away from that kind of simple-metric mentality.

Hmm...think I'll add a question about that to the appropriate thread actually.

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As has been said. I think a

As has been said. I think a key fact here is that most of the developers are not professionals. In fact the only individual working full time on COT is DrT because he could afford to give up his job and work for free. Understanding what a volunteer force looks like is key to understanding the either/or mentality of the devs on providing more PR ready updates. A volunteer is expected to work a full-time for someone else for their expenses and then come in and put in a couple hours of their free time each night or over the weekend working on COT. So either they can sit down and work on their project or they can sit down and draft a report for us. Frankly, as a volunteer I do not think I would be as interested in helping out in my free time if it meant spending some of that time filling out a report.

I do agree that "we don't need the money" is not a great response to the second funding campaign. I think that DrT is trying to pre-empt the argument that "COT has burned all their reserves and with nothing to show for it needs to run a second funding campaign" when they do have money. Being able to pull in more money does allow them to accelerate their development timeline (ideally) but that should be considered more of a stretch goal to the original kickstarter. IE if we pull in 65000 we can higher a professional coder for a year. If we pull in 130000 we can hire a professional graphics artist for a year and all previous tiers etc. 20/20 Hindsight, that is what they should have done at the start but obviously that doesn't sell well as a stretch goal.

I think that MWM should invest more in their public appearance. DrT, as much as I respect him for giving up his work to lead MWM, is not always the best voice for the company and game. I think right now they could benefit from drafting in some of the forumites into a PR team to help draft progress reports and pretty up the KS updates and start wading through the information they have yet to release. Unfortunately they too would be working for free and how much can you expect for free? A few weeks ago I was on the edge of losing my job and would have gladly picked up that torch and run with it. But work picked up again and now I don't feel I have the time or energy to be part of a PR team in my free time, as much as I would like to help. I'm also not sure my vision for the PR team would or could work with development as is.

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

...
I do agree that "we don't need the money" is not a great response to the second funding campaign. I think that DrT is trying to pre-empt the argument that "COT has burned all their reserves and with nothing to show for it needs to run a second funding campaign" when they do have money. Being able to pull in more money does allow them to accelerate their development timeline (ideally) but that should be considered more of a stretch goal to the original kickstarter. IE if we pull in 65000 we can higher a professional coder for a year. If we pull in 130000 we can hire a professional graphics artist for a year and all previous tiers etc. 20/20 Hindsight, that is what they should have done at the start but obviously that doesn't sell well as a stretch goal.

I disagree that MWM should have hired anyone right after the Kickstarter. I think they've made good decisions in that regard, and as far as I can see they've handled their manpower very well to this point.

My background is in theatre. I've worked in academic, professional, and community-based theatre. Some of the community theatres I've worked with have done far better, and more consistent work than some of the professional theatres I've worked with, and they've almost always been longer-lived as organizations.

As with MWM, community theatre is a volunteer enterprise. And the lifeblood of any volunteer enterprise is fairness. Many people working in community theatre would love to be paid, and many are well-qualified. I'm a case in point. Some community theatres will hire individuals, usually on a short-term basis, to do skill-specific work, like technical direction, management, etc. But those decisions need to always be based on two things: Need -- work that can't be handled on a volunteer basis; and, to some extent, "sweat equity"

Right after the KS, MWM had very little info to go on as to 1. Where they were going to be deficient in development time/skills and 2. Who among the volunteers was going to be reliable and productive and stick at it for the long haul. There's been a lot of turnover in the volunteer pool over time; that's to be expected.

But because of those unknowns, there would have been very little at that point in time for MWM to base any hiring decisions on. So for one thing, they might have hired people in roles where they weren't really needed, where there was already an overabundance of contributors. Or, they might have hired people who were only half-heartedly committed to the project. Money would likely have been wasted on bad guesses.

But just as important, without clearly agreed upon criteria to make those hiring decisions, any choices made would almost certainly have resulted in hard feelings by at least some of those passed over for paying work. I've seen it time and time again. The morale and commitment level of at least some of the volunteers would have certainly gone down because of perceived unfairness.

And that could have been fatal in the early stages of development.

But NOW, having several years of development invested, everyone on the team should have a better sense of who is contributing, where additional work is most needed, and who is qualified to do that work, and/or has put in the work to deserve those paying spots. CoT is well-along as primarily a volunteer enterprise, that now needs a professional boost. MWM now has some definable data on which to base hiring choices, and can present clear rationale and criteria for those decisions. This is as opposed to the early days, when such choices would have to have been made based entirely on guesswork or on personal connections, either of which would almost certainly have done significant damage to overall development team morale.

With the second KS, I would hope (and expect) that hiring decisions are already made ahead of time, and that prospective hires will know where they are "in line" to be hired. If we clear "X" dollars we hire person #1. If we clear "2X" dollars we hire person 2, and so on. By setting those expectations up in advance, volunteers will be less likely to feel overlooked or mis-treated by the process.

All of this is purely my own speculation, of course. I have no crystal ball, or any more inside info on the workings of MWM than any of the rest of the wannabe players on these boards. But looking at this through my own professional and volunteer experiences in my own field of expertise, I think MWM has made good team management decisions to this point.

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Whether it takes time to collect that information or not, collecting that information is absolutely essential to managing manpower and making accurate deadlines and prognosticating whether deadlines can be met or not. If MWM is not collecting this information, I would be very surprised and deeply disappointed.
Sharing that information with us, on the other hand, is a completely different issue. For all the reasons set forth by others, I do not think it would be wise or warranted to share the itty bitty details of daily business.
Heroic Games (Ship of Heroes) has obviously put more focus into their project management efforts and it has paid off in spades, getting them a seat on the Pax forum less than a year after they announced they even existed. MWM could learn a lot from that, but then, do they really need to at this point? Perhaps. All the people claiming CoT is vaporware in the other projects' forums are probably a direct result of the lack of project management and marketing that MWM has exhibited. Are those opinions worth fretting over? MWM thinks not. And I kind of agree with them. MWM does still feel like an amateurish effort right now because of the lack of a professional front office, but if the final product is going to knock my socks off anyway, it probably won't matter in the end.

I should point out it was MWM who set up the PAX panel. We invited Heroic Games and Valiance for the panel.

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Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

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I recently heard about the

I recently heard about the phoenix project after the fall of COH, a game i loved dearly and my first real mmo experience. I palyed COH off and on till the server shutdown, when i heard that City of Titans was a thing, i wanted so badly to donate, but due to real life circumstances, i could not at the time, but that did not mean i wasn't commited to the project.

I knew that the game would take roughly 4-5 years to make, I decided to withdraw from the community and focus my intentions on other things because of how long it would take to make the game, now i'm patiently waiting for Alpha testing to help make the game the best it can be, so..Like alot of you, i'm eagerly awaiting the release of City of Titans. if they do fire up a second kickstarter i would be more than willing to donate to a game and company i believe in.

Dying to win, and wanting to win is two different things, wanting to win? Yea, good luck with that.

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Welcome Ebonfox!

Welcome Ebonfox!