I wasn't sure where to put this--in "Suggestions" or "Questions"--but I decided to couch this as a suggestion. Partially because there is an old thread similar to this in "Questions" that doesn't really get very far as far as revealing the final art style and feel of movement in the game.
I've now played several MMORPG's since CoH (I had played none before), and IMHO art style trumps both graphics capability and even the whole realism vs stylization thing (though I know that is one factor in art style)--especially for character models. What I mean is, it's not nearly as important whether you have tremendous graphics capabilities or not, or whether you go more realistic or stylized, but it's if the final character art style is pleasing and appropriate.
And, even with good art, stiff, unnatural, or jerky movement (CoH was pleasantly fluid and natural compared to games I've played since to me) can make the game feel, I don't know, false. Not aesthetically pleasing or "real" feeling. It can be a real turnoff.
I love the stuff that has been released, and I can kind of infer what I think the final art style may be like--but it's impossible to be sure if I'm actually imagining it correctly. And I don't really have any sense of the movement. If it's what I'm imagining, it'll be good, but I can't really tell. Also, it is not the same seeing drawn art and rendered frames. You have to see some actual rendered characters and their movement.
So... my suggestion is that you show the community as much rendered art moving--especially actual player and non-player characters--as possible AS you develop the art so that you can get feedback BEFORE the art style is hardwired in or too far along to change meaningfully.
I fully realize that it may just be too early to do this now, but, when it is time, please get feedback from us before things are so far along that you can't really do much about it. To me this is the single biggest unknown about City of Titans. I think I have a good general sense of everything else and it's all VERY exciting!
Thanks! And thanks for everything y'all do. My wife, my son and I just absolutely can't wait!!!
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Hmmm... Do you want to see a similar Art Style to say:
- inFAMOUS ([url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd_7bjsphA4]video[/url])
- Uncharted ([url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYDBrEXLcgU&feature=share&list=PLpn8l8dEvWhFObEkbUCYJ9svnTLzBUqRF&index=7]video[/url]) or older Tomb Raider games
- Mass Effect 2 ([url=http://youtu.be/ApPvy9UxJok?t=3m56s]video[/url])
- Team Fortress 2 ([url=http://youtu.be/xRFgg228i5c?t=9m]video[/url]) cartoony 3D look
- older Prince of Persia games ([url=http://youtu.be/jt9UcT52Tqo?t=9s]video[/url])
- newer Prince of Persia ([url=http://youtu.be/JTSn4gFsUxc?t=23s]video[/url]) allot of Shader Post Processing
- Beyond Good & Evil ([url=http://youtu.be/E_Vx7FlMGKA?t=1m3s]video[/url]) mixture of Dazzling and Simple textures to accentuate the different art styles
- Remember Me ([url=http://youtu.be/mqEPCvBMpIw?t=57s]video[/url]) some great city scapes
- Forza Motorsport 5 ([url=http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/11/06/forza-4-vs-forza-5-graphics-comparison-bernese-alps]video[/url]) looks very realistic, it uses a good number of pre-baked textures with light and ray traced effects already added in. Cant convincingly show Dynamic lighting though. Sun (or other lighting) is Static, in the same spot in the sky.
- ...
That's a really good point, Empyrean. I don't really have any sense at all of what character art will be like, only the environment so far. And I agree it's a critical element, more important, as you say, than many others. The art style of TSW was a significant turn-off for me -- not of the world, which looked great, but of the Uncanny Valley characters. I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing what characters will look like in CoT, but also perhaps equally worried because it is such a significant piece of the "feel" of the game.
On the other hand, we should remember Darth Fez's thread pointing out how we on the forum are only the vocal minority, so we can't assume that the devs should necessarily listen to our opinions on art style and believe they are necessarily representative of the whole.
Spurn all ye kindle.
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF8gkBGrV-8]I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist.[/url] On a side note, that game's animations WERE pretty smooth.
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[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/toon-profiles-nnekonnin-llabanttselel-aalbusuumbra-aagimundr-sstaalsol-and-doctor]My original character profiles![/url]
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/26.jpg[/img]
Is this question concerning game play? Or is it for cinematics?
I could go for a blend of Mass Effect and Prince Of Persias for game play art. The cinematics for Unreal 4 Engine all together are pretty consistent, either direction would be safe for cinematics. Game play graphics have the potential to look better than DCUO.
RAN Ink
More and more games are using their own ingame engine for ingame cinematics. For announcement/launch trailers you can whole hog and render it far better, as long as the game still sticks to the general art style that it refers to...
Interesting side point: With the exception of the Wildstar *announcement* trailer, every other video that Carbine have done for Wildstar has been done with the ingame engine. Sure the engine might have been turned up to the max in terms of rendering quality for their "Wildstar Flicks", but that is nothing new. Eve Online has does the same with their expansion videos in the past as well... (and even let the guy who made the Clear Skies machinima use it for his 3rd film as well)
Well, what I originally meant for this thread was exactly not these things.
I don't mean the cinematics, or graphics or gameplay, I mean the ART. The artistic style. Especially of the player characters.
You can have spectacular graphics and crappy art and it'll still look stupid. You can have very meh graphics and wonderful, tasteful art an it will still look pretty good.
Art is what the human artist DOES with the graphics. It's the design. That's what I want to see. We already KNOW U4 is a good engine. What are we going to do with it?
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Oh, I see. Thanks for clarifying that. With that being said, I still like the artwork of the Mass Effect and Prince of Persia recent titles.
RAN Ink
It won't be as realistic as Mass Effect or Prince of Persia, it will be similar to CoH but with the power of the Unreal Engine 4. Kind of like this... [youtube]Bg_xIAekCys[/youtube]
PS: if you have not been to Atlas Park Revival's Facebook page, go and give them a like. :) https://www.facebook.com/AtlasParkRevival
PPS: It's way too early to start talking about movement. They are working hard on everything but it's the blood and sweat of laying down a solid foundation and nothing is pretty and polished yet. But trust me when I say all the devs are hard at work on this labor of love. <3
The devs are probably going for a family or teen rating with the upcoming title, most likely. Is there any chance of rating adjusting?
For example, a mature player can have the option to turn on blood and severing limbs. How would this affect the art?
One more thing I believe falls in art and movement, is the ability to grapple. Are you adding actual physical contact?
Thus, making it possible to throw an opponent.
RAN Ink
It is too early in development to answer about blood and gore. Now, some console games have a grappling option but the characters are mainly static so they don't clip the opponent's mesh during the animation. With a variety of sizes in City of Titans from small to huge, clipping would be an issue. But again it's too soon to say anything with certainty.
Yep, we are doing the cinematics in the engine. The 4th of July demo was the first run. Death Sheep From Hell and Doctor Tyche have some great posts about it in the Announcement Responses thread.
The rating will not be able to be increased with a toggle option. Basically the game ends up getting the *highest* rating possible with the game settings.
And even having it as a *hidden* option can backfire on the developers/publishers and result in the game getting re-rated, which can then prevent it from being sold by some retailers/stores.
The "hot coffee" mod for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas springs to mind for something like this to happen; even if the developers thought that they had "patched it out", they can still get caught out.
...When people are saying Prince of Persia, I keep thinking of the Sands of Time or Warrior Within.. So I'd be fine with an updated version of those two's art styles..
ON THE OTHER HAND.. I personally would love something similar to [url=http://img.gametap.com/products/47599999/us/screenshot4.jpg]Freedom Force's[/url] (of course updated to not look like an early 2000s game..) or [url=http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/102/1022172/marvel-ultimate-alliance-2-20090908114911678.jpg]Ultimate Alliance[/url] (but NOT looking like the settings are on lowest)
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
Absolutely no cell shading. I hate it with a passion. It makes me feel like I have limitations of a 5 years old. Nothing overly "computer graphic" either. Like the way the eyes in Mass Effect are--you can see around everyone's eye balls, and they look like they're all coked out. CoX had a balance with the art, and if the unreal engine was just laid on top of that, increased the detail, smoothed edges out, added more fluidity into the movements; it would be perfect. CoX really incorporated the comic look without looking too comic bookish.
I like what Tiger posted. That has promise. But I think character art is what I'm very much wondering about myself.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
I agree Shadow, no cell shading!
RAN Ink
Although I like cell shading (especially when executed perfectly like in Fire Emblem - Radiant dawn) , it would not be appropriate as a spiritual successor to CoH. I wouldn't really worry about it.
I know the game has to stand on it's own design, but the closest we can come to the ascetic CoH had, the better. It had the perfect blend of realistic and fantastic that made it easy to fit your character into the world no matter who or what they where.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
+1 to all y'all about the art. Especiall 5 O'clock about classic comic book look without being too comic bookish. Definitely NOT Saturday morning cartoons with cell shading like Champions.
Maybe a good way to think of it would be somewhere between actual classic comic book art and a live-action Superhero movie like The Avengers. Actually, I think DCUO didn't do too badly as far as the level of realism vs comic book feel, but I'm not wild about their art. CoH's art was MUCH better.
I guess I'd rather see CoH err on the side of realism rather than be overly cartooish.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Warcabbit linked [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdLHxiztpBs]this video[/url] in another thread. If CoT had that general look and feel to movement, I would squee.
Seriously, there would be pigs looking about in confusion.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Ah yes, I remember this video. Hell yeah, this would be perfect, man. Nice memory.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
What about something like...
Walking Dead Season 2
[url=http://youtu.be/1l3x3oe_J6w?t=4m6s][img]http://i.imgur.com/65eibUL.png[/img][/url]
Is that better than Champions Online art style?
Yuck.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
That works for the Borderlands aesthetic. Not so much what I'm looking for or expecting from CoT.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
That art style does not support my shiny metallic tights.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Moons of REIKSHALL!
Classic.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Would you want to see a Phantom Shader applied to a Targeted Enemy or Ally?
If the Target is behind a Wall or other object, an outline representation is show, sorta like Infrared. :P
[img]http://forum.unity3d.com/attachments/logo-png.39759/[/img]
example video: http://youtu.be/E8G12tUIdPM
I like the phantom shader. Looks very "x-ray vision" to me.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Looks cool, but I think phantom shader should only be available for people who choose an x-ray vision tertiary--if one were to be available. It never made sense to me why games gave everyone that feature. It distracts from the settings and suspense. It's basically a cheat, and falls in line with "everyone gets a trophy for participating". It's a handicap that shouldn't be available to everyone.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
Yes, especially for my Shadow character. Ability to see in that vision would be more complete.
RAN Ink
Some people seem to be praising Shadowrun Returns and its IMAGE Comics (well, a few of the books) type of Art Style. :)
http://youtu.be/3IzAXuJz98k?t=57s
ex:[img]http://i.imgur.com/gsOoDoS.png[/img]
+1 to that reviewer. Someone who knows the difference between graphics and aesthetics. That is the key element and what really makes a game work, visually, whether it's City of Heroes or World of Warcraft.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Agreed. That concept does seem to be a mental block for a lot of people. Graphics and aesthetics are only related in that the graphics determine how the aesthetic style can be presented.
No matter whether Van Gogh did The Starry Night in the oil-based paint of his day, or instead modern acrylic paint, pencil, pastels, or even digitally or in 3D, it's would still be The Starry Night and a masterpiece and unmistakably in his style.
However, if a mediocre artist did a mediocre piece in a MUCH more advanced modern 3D digital medium, it would still be mediocre art--just in a more advanced medium. That's why I'm kind of eager to get a sense of CoT's art style.
And movement too. Jerky movement seems to have become the norm in MMORPG's--I suppose ported in from fighting games. But I thought CoH movement felt very natural and was much... prettier than jerky little explosions of movement.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
+1.
I dont know how Unreal does animation blending, but [url=http://youtu.be/-2pSMWacsv8]I'm playing with[/url] Unity's Mechanim animation system.. and it seems decent. I'm also praying that theres a decent animation blending system for Unreal. :(