Alright, Bulliet Rye whiskey might have something to do with this post, but...
Argue against yourself. See the other point of view.
For example (crosspost):
I could personally overlook just about anything too, and I will, but I'd rather not unless I have to. What I mean is, if it really benefits the game or most players--so be it, I'll deal. But some things really smacked me out of "immersion" and I had to shake it off and "re-immerse".
Things I can think of for me personally:
1) Enhancement Stores/Auction Houses. I'd say make it a window and a part of the "game", not a part of the world lore
2) Mission Architect. Same thing--but I don't have a better suggestion and I do love player-made content. Integrate it with the world better somehow.
3) Enhancement names like, as you said, "Dragon Strike" and Cybernetic Heart". Such a waste of time and effort to come up with lots of names that work against rather than for immersion. My characters had neither but had the enhancements.
4) TRAMS! Yes, I know they explained that and the Rikti were cool, but...
Really it was just things in general that didn't fit the genera but were needed in an MMORPG, but that could have been handled "behind the scenes" as part of the game rather than out in the world as part of the lore.
Static said it's just a game and on another thread that it's a City of Heroes so there should be Superhero stores and stuff. Fair enough. I'm not sure I agree but I'll still play :).
1) It's internally consistent and might help the majority of gamers understand both what's going on in the game and the game mechanics better.
2) Also explained in the lore and easy for players to understand how to make their own content and to access player-made content--plus it's kind of Shadowrun cool. And since comic books can encompass almost anything, why not?
3) Some, probably most, gamers don't want to make up everything and want more than that from the world, and also would like to know how they got more powerful. Or maybe they don't even care, they just like the cool names. They're paying to play one way or another, so give it to them.
4) Same. Nicely tied into the lore and practical for game design.
City of Titans is it's own game and world. It can take that which is in comic books and movies and extrapolate further to an internally consistent world that is perfectly fun.
Now, I challenge you in this thread... post a quote of yours that you really feel strongly about and then argue against it.
Deconstruct yourself. Let's see what you can do. And arguing badly, absurdly, or ironically against your own points just to reinforce them doesn't count. Man up.
Edit: This seemed like a good idea last night after a dram or two, but in the light of day I'm not so sure :P. But, I guess no harm in leaving it up in case someone has fun with it.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Ahem, ok ...let me give this a shot i guess. (Please not that the above statements are my true feelings and the argument to follow are for the sake of this intellectual exercise!)
Given the amount of time that the game will have been in production by the time it is released, there should be significant strides to improve upon the CoX model. The tools the Dev's have purchased should facilitate a much better game at start up (technically speaking) than anything CoX had at its end.
The fact that us kickstarters have donated a significant amount of money to this cause, in other words we paid for it so we should get it, hopefully in a timely fashion.
While I do see the occasion post by one of the team, I see much more by the end users of the game. As the Dev's are short staffed, it is of double importance for them to pay attention to the posts in this forum, it case a good developmental idea is mentioned. It should be an easy matter for them to include such in the game given the aforementioned tools that they have purchased with our money.
While I hope the Dev's are of good caliber, I can not prove such. With various teaser releases as time goes on it should be a good indicator if we have invested wisely or if the money spent is just so much chaff in the wind. I hope they do well, or could bite them in the end!
Well, Empyrean, how'd I do?
They also serve, who only stand and wait.
Huh. Wow. I'd say very good. That was a ballsy one to pick. It was rough to read. I wanted to argue with you :P.
I figured this thread was a flop, but that is an impressive result. Let me explain what I mean.
We tend to think what we think, and to think that we're right, but it can be very eye-opening to really take someone else's perspective, a very different perspective, and look at things. It can foster deeper understanding, open-mindedness and communication in a way that just arguing for your point against another's point can't. It can get us out of the assumptions and ruts of thinking that we're stuck in and often aren't even aware of.
For example, while I wholeheartedly agree with radientone's true perspective about MWM taking their time, there have been a few eruptions of frustration, impatience, and doubt on these boards. They tend to just get called down, but it can be valuable to explore where it's coming from and the thinking behind it to better understand and perhaps better preempt it.
I'll be interested to see what others come up with!
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
What, are you kidding? Pulling is awesome! If I didn't pull I'd keep getting killed and it would take even longer to finish the mission.
nunchaku would probably be too complicated and might offend parents groups.
finally, there is nothing like the rush I get from leveling up. If you take that away from me I'll come to your house man!
Oh and MMOs are different from PNP games or comics
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
I'll admit I didn't take the challenge as seriously as you probably wanted me to, but dang! that was fun.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
LOL. Fun is allowed.
I didn't think if this thread as "serious" when I put it up, just possibly thought provoking in hopefully a good way.
And you did fine. You came up with arguments, or at least reasons, for all of the things you brought up--except for the last one.
Now, I challenge you, Sir Paladin, explain to us *HOW* MMORPG's are different from PNPRPG's and comics. Reasonably and rationally, and from the perspective of someone who really sees it that way.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Actually I realize they're different. There is absolutely no limit to what you can do in PNP game and that's just not the case with an MMO.
The reason I mentioned that was because a lot of people seem to assume I don't know the difference.
They often point out that a difference exists as if that automatically means whatever I'm asking for can't be done.
It's just a way to dismiss whatever I'm saying without really examining it.
Once they say "this isn't a PNP game" they don't bother any more to think about whether the thing in question is possible OR even why it isn't.
They assume they've answered both when in fact they've answered neither.
The difference I appreciate most, is the GM's ability to customize adventures not just to a character but also to a player, and there are a lot of challenges and conflicts that work better in PNP. I've mentioned on another thread, that Paladin's arch enemy was a murdering vigilante named Steel Head and often he would race to bring a villain to justice before Steel Head killed him and then have to protect the villain until he was safely in police custody. I don't see how that could ever be done in an MMO.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Lol, It was rough writing what is opposite to what you believe. Normally I will take "Devil's Advocate" for just about any argument, but you threw a curve ball by saying argue against yourself, I enjoyed it!
They also serve, who only stand and wait.
I for one would like to see pulling disappear not because it's dumb to do for strategy, but because it emphasizes you're still in a 20 year old model of mmo game.
For example, in WoW, there are some centaur villages outside some newbie zones. In one huge grassland area, there are two "centaur scouts" who walk around it in a giant loop.
Neglecting that they could see me, a mortal enemy, and they did not run right back to their village and report, like, oh, I don't know, a scout is supposed to do, I jumped them and killed one.
Then it went badly so I ran away. Eventually the survivor gave up, ran back to the disruption point, and...continued scouting by himself?!?!?
His colleague was just murdered in war! Dammit, run back to your village, report the bad news, and return with a large squad to kick my ass!
His dead body was right there, and you ignored it and continued your stroll!
At least have some zones, or "tough" servers, or something, where things are pepped up. So tired, so very tired, of silly spawn points waiting to be harvested.
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The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.
Now that I think about it (and to argue against myself!) I am not against pulling so much as the static, idiotic AI behavior of a pulled group's members.
The best is an almost-dead runner who goes around on a predefined path through other groups, either alerting them to join, or hoping you follow and trigger them anyway.
AVs did this all the time, so people learned quickly to pre-clear groups around an AV.
Not saying they should trigger a general alarm to put the entire base on alert (or maybe they should?) but having other groups in visual range join rather than standing like fools while their colleagues 20 feet away are murdered.
That could work as a difficulty setting, with greater chance at better rewards.
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The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.
Agree with this. Which would make it more interesting in that hopefully CoT has enemies like CoH and not CO (so spread out it sucks to play a mission) and if they are within a range they come running to help!