I don't even need a list of all the powers from a set, just a proper explanation on the main site about character creation with how primary, secondary, mastery and tertiary powers work. Right now the bulk of info is either archived in kickstarter updates or spread throughout dev snippits in the forums.

The main page currently has the following:

The Characters page that only provides a link to the Archtype page.

An archtype page that gives a description of each class, but does not clearly state what power sets they have. (No mention of defence/melee sets on guardian). It lists all 3 sub types for each class even though only 1 will be available at launch. No mention that Commander will not be available at launch. You can't even click these to link over to what their primary power sets would be.

The power page that does state there will be 5 choices per set at launch and lists the sets with a link to the pages.

The sets pages that list all 5 options for the set with a brief description and 2 example powers.

No where, ANYWHERE is aesthetic decoupling mentioned on the main site. It's in Kickstarter updates, it's on the forums, but not the main site. New people visiting will see vampiric and atrophic, while being disappointed/confused that they can't make their fire or ice hero.

You bring up very good points, McJigg. All of these things can definitely be improved, [b]and will need to be improved[/b] when the site starts to get more outside attention. Well, hopefully before that point.

McJigg wrote:

Right now the bulk of info is either archived in kickstarter updates or spread throughout dev snippits in the forums.

And this ^ is an ongoing problem we've had here, even years ago when I was just lurking and not really a poster. The information piecemeal is a real drag. Imagine a newer, prospective player trying to figure out these things. Things like [url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/stealth-archetype] Stealth, and how it works in this game[/url], is a very common thing in MMO's, but a prospective player trying to figure any of that out would be pretty SoL.

Now, I am [i]sure[/i] MWM has plans for demystifying Masteries and Tertiaries, and I am [i]sure[/i] they plan to update the site with Aesthetic Decoupling on its own page, but for now a lot of people have defaulted to checking [url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/compilation-information-city-titans]Pyromantic's compilation thread[/url] but even that can't keep up with the piecemeal info that is trickling throughout the forums.
But don't get me wrong! I am glad Pyro did that, and I am glad the devs try to be communicative when they can, but it [i]does[/i] get exhausting trying to piece all the info together ourselves.

MeSoSollyWan wrote:

You bring up very good points, McJigg. All of these things can definitely be improved, [b]and will need to be improved[/b] when the site starts to get more outside attention. Well, hopefully before that point.

McJigg wrote:

Right now the bulk of info is either archived in kickstarter updates or spread throughout dev snippits in the forums.

And this ^ is an ongoing problem we've had here, even years ago when I was just lurking and not really a poster. The information piecemeal is a real drag. Imagine a newer, prospective player trying to figure out these things. Things like [url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/stealth-archetype] Stealth, and how it works in this game[/url], is a very common thing in MMO's, but a prospective player trying to figure any of that out would be pretty SoL.

Now, I am [i]sure[/i] MWM has plans for demystifying Masteries and Tertiaries, and I am [i]sure[/i] they plan to update the site with Aesthetic Decoupling on its own page, but for now a lot of people have defaulted to checking [url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/compilation-information-city-titans]Pyromantic's compilation thread[/url] but even that can't keep up with the piecemeal info that is trickling throughout the forums.
But don't get me wrong! I am glad Pyro did that, and I am glad the devs try to be communicative when they can, but it [i]does[/i] get exhausting trying to piece all the info together ourselves.

More complete and detailed documentation will be a prerequisite for Kickstarter 2.0, but MWM can’t do that until they’ve confirmed to themselves that they know how all these things will work together. Everything MWM has revealed so far, piecemeal as it is, has been subject to change to varying degrees. This is software development, after all. It’s hard to document public APIs when the internals haven’t been completed yet. While high-level concepts, like Archetypes, Masteries, and power tiers are probably stable, the details of how they all interact may not have been tested and confirmed until quite recently as they’ve pushed for full integration.

And as any MMO developer will tell you, [i]anything[/i] you put in writing will be treated as a promise by some segment of the customer base, “subject to change” disclaimers be damned. There is a danger in releasing details too soon, especially when the base game still hasn’t fully emerged from its R&D phase.

Oh I completely agree and am very mindful of that, what I am suggesting is that we're getting to the point where if alpha/beta/launch is to take place later this year, then marketing needs to begin in the near future.

I am not suggesting they rush out information like crazy. But I am saying that we are getting to the point where extra professionalism and presentation is necessary, and information should be more of a stream than a trickle. The devs have already stated that the presentation part is a goal for them, as we saw with the character creator preview. That was great, production value was very high. The website needs to reflect that. If new prospective subs see awesome videos like that, then follow links to a website that doesn't have a clear way to get information, there will be a drop-off. That's just statistics.

And of course things will change, and there will be hang-ups.. Heck the character creator preview was delayed, like, 6 months alone and who knows if something even more drastic happens and the game itself gets delayed again.

Bottom line though, we're edging ever nearer to the sweet spot between "too soon" and "too late," and getting information uploaded to this site in a good, clean, consistent matter will only benefit everyone [b]especially[/b] when "Kickstarter 2.0" rolls out.

Doctor Tyche wrote:

You're not kidding there. Look at how many people still complain about promised features missing from Fable.... near 16 years later.

That poor game... I still enjoyed it, though.

Edit: reworded a sentence.

Fireheart wrote:

'Kickstarter 2.0' is a useful concept and an important waypoint in the development cycle, but are there not more efficient ways to collect additional funding besides Kickstarter? I admit I'm not even a novice when it comes to public funding programs, but I understood that Kickstarter claims a percentage of the take? Now that MWM is an established company, could we buy... stock? Fund a bond to 'buy' the perqs? I'm not sure what the method would be.

Be Well!
Fireheart

I think it's codenamed "Kickstarter 2.0". Because of things like what you've just mentioned, setting up additionally funding gets pretty sticky. I think they are definitely considering other platforms to fundraise.

MeSoSollyWan wrote:

what I am suggesting is that we're getting to the point where if alpha/beta/launch is to take place later this year, then marketing needs to begin in the near future.

That might be getting to far ahead of things. We don't even know if MWM has a proper/functioning infrastructure (I am talking people & process) to actually support the game once it goes live in any form (alpha, beta, character creator, full blown live). My experience in QA has me worried that they don't have all of the components compiled together yet with a late fall 2018 release date. The distributed development style helps MWM due to their makeup. However I am concerned that they think they can just throw all the pieces together and have a functioning product. And that isn't a fair characterization, but given that they as a company have not released a game before I am worried that they will be using the playerbase as their iterative bug finding / code fix loop. I want to help, but marketing the game too soon will doom the effort if what is released does not meet certain standards. I am skeptical about how much work they think they need to get a game released by the end of the year.

I agree that there needs to be a lot of descriptive information about powers and how you craft your vision. And that information needs to come directly from MWM, not a third party / fansite. People are going to need a primer on hero vs villain and how the mechanics manifest in the game. A lot of walkthroughs and videos will be necessary just to get people through the character creation process (there are so many archetypes and core ideas that need to be shown). Then the world of possibilities available to each character needs to be conveyed (sagas, paths, etc) without steering people down a certain trajectory. And the evolution of the character needs to be hinted at so people understand that your character is forever growing & evolving (you don't just hit level cap and call it done).

Like others have mentioned here, there are so many dev nuggets in the forums that there is no way an outsider will be able to wade through it even if we filter stuff into one mega thread. If the forums are their archiving mechanism for game details, this game is doomed (as Lothic has hinted at). The necessary information should already exist somewhere, it just needs to be located, then checked against the spec, then verified against what has actually been coded, then crafted into a stable media format (text, video, alien mind probe, etc).

Fireheart wrote:

Devs have been talking for months about challenges of 'integration'.

I really think the best way to go is to get the thing running, release it to the faithful, ensure that it's operating well, get some articles and critiques written by appropriate media, and only Then worry about 'advertising'. Not precisely a 'stealth launch', but no need for a circus.

Be Well!
Fireheart

I like this plan. There is a great resource of essentially "free labor" for QA testing in the steadfast forum-goers here. Of course appropriate NDA's and such may need to be signed, but that's all par for the course if the devs decide to go that route.

MeSoSollyWan wrote:

Fireheart wrote:

Devs have been talking for months about challenges of 'integration'.

I really think the best way to go is to get the thing running, release it to the faithful, ensure that it's operating well, get some articles and critiques written by appropriate media, and only Then worry about 'advertising'. Not precisely a 'stealth launch', but no need for a circus.

Be Well!
Fireheart

I like this plan. There is a great resource of essentially "free labor" for QA testing in the steadfast forum-goers here. Of course appropriate NDA's and such may need to be signed, but that's all par for the course if the devs decide to go that route.

And we do have a pool of people who already signed up as well.

Doctor Tyche wrote:

MeSoSollyWan wrote:

I like this plan. There is a great resource of essentially "free labor" for QA testing in the steadfast forum-goers here. Of course appropriate NDA's and such may need to be signed, but that's all par for the course if the devs decide to go that route.

And we do have a pool of people who already signed up as well.

Where is this signup sheet?
And what percentage of that pool do you believe will actually test it versus playing it?
And what percentage of that pool have experience testing and know what to look for? And are they familiar with the spec so they understand what is a bug versus what isn't coded (or integrated) yet so that they don't create extra development noise just filtering through non-bugs?