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Arch Nemesis

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WarBird
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Arch Nemesis

Someone help me remember, was there a hero MMO where you got to design an Arch-Nemesis for your self? If not, I think it would be a very cool addition. Like when you get to a certain level, say 10, you get to design his costume and name with the creator, then you follow a choice tree for his origin, archetype, power-set and some other facts. These feed an algorithm that selects a certain progression of missions as you level. Maybe you have to face him an average of every five levels or so, but you never know when he/she will appear.

Maybe the very first mission is his "creation" story, even. (based on the choices you made) There could be a whole pool of different types of missions that get pulled out in a given order based on the above mentioned algorithm, with the Villain, and his missions, leveling right along with you. Along the way, perhaps there are occasional cameos where he/she allies with one of the gangs to help tie it in with the lore.

Feedback? Extrapolations?

btw- since the missions are usually instanced, and specifically for you, maybe the A-N name wouldn't have to be unique across the server. just an idea.

chase
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Champions had an arch-nemesis

Champions had an arch-nemesis system similar to that, IIRC. it wasn't bad... was rather limited in the range of minions to select for the mission, and a limited number of nemesis story arcs etc, but I enjoyed it in my brief playtime there.

I liked a method proposed by Positron once. His was part random-drop and part 'create your own.' I'll probably bastardize it badly, but essentially, as you'd do missions, you'd start finding 'clues" to some kind of nemesis that's working behind the scenes- their primary power, their secondary power, etc. You got to pick which clues you used to assemble the profile, and once the profile was complete a full nemesis that'd then attack you in one of the missions or a special story arc based on the clues that were put together to make this bad guy. You'd defeat him, he'd go to prison, and you'd start another. Eventually, you'd have a "sinister six" type of moment, as some new foe breaks the preceding ones out and they all attack you.

Comicsluvr
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I can't see them with this at

I can't see them with this at launch but it would be cool down the road though!

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

Khaos
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I agree that an arch-nemesis

I agree that an arch-nemesis would be a great addition to the game.

WarBird
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Having the cumulative Super

Having the cumulative Super Villain team is appealing, for sure. But it seems like that would be a lot to cram in before level cap. I suggested the "Design-Your-Own" method, allowing for a non-unique name in the instanced missions, so that it might be possible to create and play the same character as a Villain. I did that often enough in CoH, designing a hero blue side, and his arch enemy on red. My great frustration was that they could never actually battle. :)

Now just imagine running both characters on both sides of the law. You have a Hero with a Villain arch nemesis, and vice versa. And they keep meeting each other as you play them both toward level cap. Awesomeness.

Khaos
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I picture this being able to

I picture this being able to tie into weakness very well also. Your arch-nemesis could have the ability that your character has a weakness to and that would add to why they are your nemesis.

DocSyonide
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One of the issues Champions

One of the issues Champions had was that the system wasn't big enough; I've talked to people who have had exactly three encounters with their Nemesis in the gap between level 25 and 35. It's not really a nemesis, but a recurring villain, though the part where their minions randomly attacked you was great fun. Maybe at character creation, or soon after (if you so chose) you can design your Nemesis in the same way you design your character and there could actually be much bigger, broader, arcs for them, rather than them all doing exactly the same thing with slightly different dialogue.

Example: A hero (Let's call her Stronghold) sets up a villain (let's call him Doc Syonide, if you forgive) who has the Class of "World Conqueror", with the subclass of "Mad Science". Now he will attempt to take over the world in his plot-lines, but his dialogue will be stilted towards Science "Don't be so foolish as to think you can stop me. Science allows everything to be possible, and with my knowledge my victory is assured", etc, etc, etc. Say Stronghold, instead, fought a Doc Syonide that was more inline with Magic but the same class of "World Conqueror", their dialogue might shift to "The mystical forces of Magic guide my hands", mystical mumbo-jumbo, etc, etc, etc. The missions would be the same but the flavour text would change and alter.

Instead of "World Conqueror", Stronghold's player chooses Doc Syonide to be a different Class of Villain; let's say "Bank Robber" with the Subclass of "Science". Now the missions are different and Doc Syonide is no longer trying to take over the world, but is now trying to rob banks, get funding, become rich and wealthy by any means possible while still sprouting things like "I'm going to be able to create wonders of science with this score!"

And with that you could always add in new Classes (Mafia Don, Good Guy with Bad Luck, Alien Overlord, etc, etc) and have various sub-classes too (Science, Magic, Diety, Dark Forces, Alien, etc, etc). This would broaden out the options for creating a Nemesis. It might make it a lot of dialogue work, but that's just one way to make it seem like your villain is your own.

And with that, of course, you can do the alternative reality villain which appears to be the hero in a totalitarian society. How awesome would it be to rock up and be attacked by your Nemesis again, only to realize that he was the good guy in this reality! XD

Anyway, those are my two cents, hope I didn't put anyone out of joint with them. Take care!

"With Knowledge comes Power, but Power corrupts; so study hard and be Evil!"

Comicsluvr
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I like your idea Doc. As a

I like your idea Doc. As a writer I can tell you that I could write up a TON of great dialog in a day and more to follow. I think good dialog and story adds a lot to the game and it's relatively easy (meaning fast and cheap) to put in.

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

Darth Fez
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DocSyonide wrote:
DocSyonide wrote:

One of the issues Champions had was that the system wasn't big enough; I've talked to people who have had exactly three encounters with their Nemesis in the gap between level 25 and 35. It's not really a nemesis, but a recurring villain, though the part where their minions randomly attacked you was great fun.

As the saying goes, why not both? In fact, such a system should have the choice for either one. (Go ahead, ask me what I mean. Pretty please?)

Some nemeses are the traditional masterminds with plans within plans within plans, who have minions (witting and otherwise) doing much of the work. Whatever the reason, they view becoming personally involved in a fight to be a last resort. In this case encounters with the nemesis (in person or remotely) should be relatively rare; the nemesis should be felt rather than seen (a mouse pad in an office with the symbol, a coffee cup in a conference room, a note tacked on a board at the college, etc.).

Other nemeses, whether they have minions or not, prefer be hands-on with their problem solving. Obviously encounters with such a nemesis will be much more frequent, by necessity. Perhaps this option could involve two or three key enemies, somewhat like Spiderman's or Batman's stable of bad guys, to balance against the large organization implied in the first option. That's not to say that these guys can't plan and scheme, only that the hero would find their nemesis trying to pull off the plan in person.

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Mendicant
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I like it, Doc.

I like it, Doc.

Fireheart
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And there's no reason why the

And there's no reason why the various 'opponent factions' couldn't be part of a Nemesis System. Rather than having to create a custom Nemesis, a player could just choose from a list of existing factions in the city's Lore.

For instance, I had a character that 'escaped and reformed' from the 5th Column/Council. When playing him, I always took extra pleasure in defeating those enemies. What if I had been able to select them as a 'Nemesis Faction', perhaps triggering random encounters with those soldiers? What if that character got a small boost in Exp or Loot from selecting missions against them? What if there was a special plot-thread or adventure-arc that could be uncovered through Being a 'nemesis' to that enemy faction? What if completing that arc actually 'defeated' that Nemesis, such that they no-longer attacked the hero (as much)?

Be Well!
Fireheart

WarBird
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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

And there's no reason why the various 'opponent factions' couldn't be part of a Nemesis System. Rather than having to create a custom Nemesis, a player could just choose from a list of existing factions in the city's Lore.
For instance, I had a character that 'escaped and reformed' from the 5th Column/Council. When playing him, I always took extra pleasure in defeating those enemies. What if I had been able to select them as a 'Nemesis Faction', perhaps triggering random encounters with those soldiers? What if that character got a small boost in Exp or Loot from selecting missions against them? What if there was a special plot-thread or adventure-arc that could be uncovered through Being a 'nemesis' to that enemy faction? What if completing that arc actually 'defeated' that Nemesis, such that they no-longer attacked the hero (as much)?
Be Well!
Fireheart

I think this is a much better use of the "faction/reputation" mechanic. As you do more along a story arc you get more and more attention from the bad guys. Maybe at a certain point you get some item that helps you against them specifically (But is generally useful, too) and when you complete it altogether, like Fireheart suggests, they give you a very wide berth. Ooh, ooh! And an SG Base trophy!

Catherine America
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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

And there's no reason why the various 'opponent factions' couldn't be part of a Nemesis System. Rather than having to create a custom Nemesis, a player could just choose from a list of existing factions in the city's Lore.
For instance, I had a character that 'escaped and reformed' from the 5th Column/Council. When playing him, I always took extra pleasure in defeating those enemies. What if I had been able to select them as a 'Nemesis Faction', perhaps triggering random encounters with those soldiers? What if that character got a small boost in Exp or Loot from selecting missions against them? What if there was a special plot-thread or adventure-arc that could be uncovered through Being a 'nemesis' to that enemy faction? What if completing that arc actually 'defeated' that Nemesis, such that they no-longer attacked the hero (as much)?
Be Well!
Fireheart

I've always thought that such a design would make perfect sense.

Beat enough ePunks down over time then they should be looking to get back at me outside of my mission instances (ambushes and such). Also, in my missions, even if I have it set low for "LT's as bosses", for example, a few random spawns should be scaled a step or two higher...in effect saying to the PC: yep...we've beefed up our presence especially to deal with you.

(Currently developing the Sapphire 7 Initiative)