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Alternate animations for alternate activations?

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Tranquil Flower
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Alternate animations for alternate activations?

I can't find anywhere this has been discussed, so raising it as a new thread.

For powers that have an alternate activation, such as 'jolt' in kinetic melee, will both activations have to use a single animation that's linked to the underlying power, or will it be possible to link different animations to the different activations?

As a definite use of alternative activations is changing knock down effects to knockback (as jolt does) it would be a shame if we can't vary the animation appropriately to match the effect. So you could set up your brutish hulk character to overhead smash on normal (knockdown) activations, and shove opponents backwards when using the alternate activation, or your martial artist sweeps on normal and snap kicks on alternate, or whatever.

Tannim222
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Both will use the same

Both will use the same animation.


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blacke4dawn
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I can understand doing so for

I can understand doing so for launch but is there a possibility to have such options some time in the future, most likely years after launch?

Also if alternative animations are a total no go then what about just differing colors?

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

I can understand doing so for launch but is there a possibility to have such options some time in the future, most likely years after launch?

Also if alternative animations are a total no go then what about just differing colors?

Is it possible? Maybe. I wouldn’t hold out for it though. That would require more work on the people working on the aesthetic system to know wjich poses have alternate activations, build UI in additional UI etc.

There isn’t a direct way for them to know when something. Is set up to function like this easily unlike distinctive fields that set up the powers like showing Melee, Ranged, or Locaition. The altnerabe activation is a condition of s power not an actual activation section that we bake into the structure of a power.


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Tranquil Flower
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Thanks for a quick answer,

Thanks for a quick answer, even if it wasn't the one we'd prefer. I can certainly understand why the design ended up this way, and why it would be hard to change. On the plus side, it's something that probably doesn't really impact ranged powers at all, and can be worked around with melee.

Thinking about this made me realise I don't know if animations are set for your entire character, or set per costume. I seem to remember in CoX, power coloration was by costume slot, but obviously that was a lot less customisation that actually altering animations. Can you vary your animations by costume slot?

If you can then that ameliorates the issue, which was minor in the first place.

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Tranquil Flower wrote:
Tranquil Flower wrote:

Thanks for a quick answer, even if it wasn't the one we'd prefer. I can certainly understand why the design ended up this way, and why it would be hard to change. On the plus side, it's something that probably doesn't really impact ranged powers at all, and can be worked around with melee.

Thinking about this made me realise I don't know if animations are set for your entire character, or set per costume. I seem to remember in CoX, power coloration was by costume slot, but obviously that was a lot less customisation that actually altering animations. Can you vary your animations by costume slot?

If you can then that ameliorates the issue, which was minor in the first place.

I'm certainly hoping so since otherwise it would remove a huge part of customization imo. Being locked into a single "power costume/aesthetics" would severely reduce the possible character costumes if one wanted to keep both "fitting" with each other.

DesViper
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Thanks for the quick answer!

Thanks for the quick answer!

Am I ignorant for thinking this would be pretty simple to implement: in the Chargen by animations, add a line for alternate activation?


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Tannim222
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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Thanks for the quick answer!

Am I ignorant for thinking this would be pretty simple to implement: in the Chargen by animations, add a line for alternate activation?

No where near as simple as that.


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Thanks for the quick answer!

Am I ignorant for thinking this would be pretty simple to implement: in the Chargen by animations, add a line for alternate activation?

It's not just the chargen itself that needs the "support" for this but the powers system as a whole. Doesn't matter how many alternative animations you assign if there is no code for selecting one upon every activation.

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Here's an alternative

Here's an alternative suggestion: multiple animations per power: e.g., "brawl" has a jab, uppercut, hook, or kick animation at random or in cycle.


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DariusWolfe
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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Here's an alternative suggestion: multiple animations per power: e.g., "brawl" has a jab, uppercut, hook, or kick animation at random or in cycle.

I second this, but I probably won't be disappointed if it's not implemented unless I'm likely to be spending a lot of time using a single power over and over.

~ DariusWolfe
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Yeah it would have greater

Yeah it would have greater impact on lower levels, but even a higher levels, you'll probably have 5 or 6 bread'n'butter powers. So having 2 or 3 animations each, max, would make 10-15 animations, which I think is a lot more color than 5.

This is especially important for martial arts types I think.


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Tranquil Flower
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Just to double check, the

Just to double check, the summary is 'No to multiple animations for a single power at launch, and development is hard. This applies whether a power has alternate activations or not.' I haven't seen a clear answer to 'Animations set per costume slot, per build, or per character. I'd be stunned if we don't at least get alternates per build, as you can potentially have an entirely different secondary on an alternate build.

Tannim, are you in a position to answer the 'animations per costume slot' question?

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Tranquil Flower wrote:
Tranquil Flower wrote:

Just to double check, the summary is 'No to multiple animations for a single power at launch, and development is hard. This applies whether a power has alternate activations or not.' I haven't seen a clear answer to 'Animations set per costume slot, per build, or per character. I'd be stunned if we don't at least get alternates per build, as you can potentially have an entirely different secondary on an alternate build.

Tannim, are you in a position to answer the 'animations per costume slot' question?

The intent is for animationsntonbe set with the costume. As you can change props and that can change animations. This may change as we test how much data this requires but it’s the goal being worked toward.


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McNum
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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Tranquil Flower wrote:

Just to double check, the summary is 'No to multiple animations for a single power at launch, and development is hard. This applies whether a power has alternate activations or not.' I haven't seen a clear answer to 'Animations set per costume slot, per build, or per character. I'd be stunned if we don't at least get alternates per build, as you can potentially have an entirely different secondary on an alternate build.

Tannim, are you in a position to answer the 'animations per costume slot' question?

The intent is for animationsntonbe set with the costume. As you can change props and that can change animations. This may change as we test how much data this requires but it’s the goal being worked toward.

Wait, does that mean that my characters can use an entirely different set of animations for their powers depending on what costume they're wearing?

As in you have a costume that's supposed to be your secret identity for RP reasons so you tone down the excessive animations to draw as little attention as possible when in that outfit, while you have all out excessive posing and fireworks while in a hero costume? Or if you have a dark side, so you turn into some half-demon thing and all your powers are suddenly black and cast in a more malicious looking way.

Because that'd be awesome.

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McNum wrote:
McNum wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Tranquil Flower wrote:

Just to double check, the summary is 'No to multiple animations for a single power at launch, and development is hard. This applies whether a power has alternate activations or not.' I haven't seen a clear answer to 'Animations set per costume slot, per build, or per character. I'd be stunned if we don't at least get alternates per build, as you can potentially have an entirely different secondary on an alternate build.

Tannim, are you in a position to answer the 'animations per costume slot' question?

The intent is for animationsntonbe set with the costume. As you can change props and that can change animations. This may change as we test how much data this requires but it’s the goal being worked toward.

Wait, does that mean that my characters can use an entirely different set of animations for their powers depending on what costume they're wearing?

As in you have a costume that's supposed to be your secret identity for RP reasons so you tone down the excessive animations to draw as little attention as possible when in that outfit, while you have all out excessive posing and fireworks while in a hero costume? Or if you have a dark side, so you turn into some half-demon thing and all your powers are suddenly black and cast in a more malicious looking way.

Because that'd be awesome.

If we can get that to work. Don’t want to place false hopes.


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DesViper
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I mean even CoH had different

I mean even CoH had different animations for costumes, given their limited animation options.


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Tannim222
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And I confirmed this is the

And I confirmed this is the goal to be able to have different props / animations / emanation points / and particle effects per costume slot if you choose.


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I'm willing to sacrifice some

I'm willing to sacrifice some costume change flexibility for costume slot flexibility, but that's me :p


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DariusWolfe
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I'm happy about the

I'm happy about the (conditional) confirmation of this, especially given the 'secret identity' angle. Having my armor-wearing, broadsword-swinging, magic-casting hero able to just pop a low level criminal with his fists when he's out and about in his t-shirt and jeans is something I never considered would be a thing, but now I'm dying to do it.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

And I confirmed this is the goal to be able to have different props / animations / emanation points / and particle effects per costume slot if you choose.

This
is
AWESOME

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

And I confirmed this is the goal to be able to have different props / animations / emanation points / and particle effects per costume slot if you choose.

I my head this was already a given since being "stuck" with a single power aesthetics would, imo, severely limit the options for costumes when trying to make them work together. Nice to know that it's "only" a technical limitation that would prevent this possibility and that you are doing your best solve that.

Now, has there been any thoughts on being able to switch costumes and power aesthetics independently of each other, or are we "stuck" with having costumes and power aesthetics as paired combos?
This mainly relates to how the data is saved, since we will be able to change specification (secondary set-type) with builds the power aesthetics at a minimum will need to be saved on a per-build level somehow.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Now, has there been any thoughts on being able to switch costumes and power aesthetics independently of each other, or are we "stuck" with having costumes and power aesthetics as paired combos?

That seem to me to be too complicated for it's worth, personally. Why have two separate parallel systems when you can achieve the same affect with one? Just give your character a second identical costume to the first but change up his power aesthetics. Same effect, less complicated.

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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Now, has there been any thoughts on being able to switch costumes and power aesthetics independently of each other, or are we "stuck" with having costumes and power aesthetics as paired combos?

That seem to me to be too complicated for it's worth, personally. Why have two separate parallel systems when you can achieve the same affect with one? Just give your character a second identical costume to the first but change up his power aesthetics. Same effect, less complicated.

While true it can become unwieldy if you want to have every costume you come up with to be able to utilize every power aesthetics you come up with, that will follow an exponential growth in the number of costume slots you need to use. It will also become a fairly big limiting factor in such a "system".

Depending on how they actually store costumes and power aesthetics (together or separate) due to the potential for having vastly different secondaries in different builds they may already essentially have a large part of the base for this done.

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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Now, has there been any thoughts on being able to switch costumes and power aesthetics independently of each other, or are we "stuck" with having costumes and power aesthetics as paired combos?

That seem to me to be too complicated for it's worth, personally. Why have two separate parallel systems when you can achieve the same affect with one? Just give your character a second identical costume to the first but change up his power aesthetics. Same effect, less complicated.

As long as you have a spare costume slot, that works. OTOH, if you have multiple costumes, each of which could be used with either animation, that would double the number of slots used for those costumes. But TGHI, the work required to implement the separate selection idea may move it way down the list of "Cool Things for the Devs to Add to the Game", so folks who want multiple animation sets per costume may have to get used to using multiple slots per costume...

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I figure since costume slots

I figure since costume slots are supposed to be effectively unlimited (I'm reasonably sure I've seen that said; could be wrong, though) you could potentially have costume slots dedicated simply to holding alternate power customization sets; So a second costume may look exactly the same, but now all of your powers have a fire-based appearance instead of ice, for example. This seems like it would meet most of the intent of people who'd want multiple sets of power customizations for a single costume, and would already fit within the stated intent of the game; The only limiting factor I see is how many costume slots you can realistically have based on how they're acquired (earned through leveling, achievements, store purchases, etc).

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