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takeshiokage
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COT

I am curious as to when we might see some actual game we can try out to see how close to COH and COV city of titans really will be. I have been looking for a beta or any kind of program to download for city of titans. hope to see one soon.

Lin Chiao Feng
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At least a year away. Maybe

At least a year away. Maybe longer.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Kiyori Anoyui
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If I had to assume, since

If I had to assume, since there hasn't been much facts, to my knowledge, I would say that we may see a character creator in or near November. If I recall they had said that an app on your phone resembling the near finished creator would come out before the game. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I would have to agree with Lin, for what we have seen in the latest demos I wouldn't expect an in game demo til at least next year

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"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

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Most games of the MMO type

Most games of the MMO type are in development for 5 to 7 years. We have a long wait even with Missing world Media taking short cuts. So I agree with the other posters we won't see something playable for CoT at best next year.

The Costume creator is top priority from what I know and that may come out this year.

If you are itching to play something Vigilance Online has been green lit for early access on Steam. That another CoH spiritual successor

--------------------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP

Kiyori Anoyui
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So I just went and took a

So I just went and took a look at the pre-alpha of Valiance Online. I hope the CoT Dev's get a chance to see it. There is a lot of interesting issues with it(Not trying to bash it, I know it's in pre-Alpha) that can be looked at and used as a pro vs con of a developing game

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

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RottenLuck wrote:
RottenLuck wrote:

Most games of the MMO type are in development for 5 to 7 years. We have a long wait even with Missing world Media taking short cuts. So I agree with the other posters we won't see something playable for CoT at best next year.
The Costume creator is top priority from what I know and that may come out this year.
If you are itching to play something Vigilance Online has been green lit for early access on Steam. That another CoH spiritual successor

The thing that gets me is that they are starting to "miss" Kickstarter deliverable dates. If they knew that they were not going to hit them, they should let their backers know.

If they never intended to hit these dates, then I will get in touch with Kickstarter to complain about funding being obtained under fraudulent circumstances.

They NEED to start talking to their backers VIA the backer updates, telling them (and us) TOGETHER about what their plans are getting to be.

I wonder which con they will be doing their launch party at? August 2015... coming soon

Or is that a typo and its meant to be 2025?

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

RottenLuck
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You might want to PM one of

You might want to PM one of them because those of us who have the Kickstarter K on our names have gotten information. Because they have been talking to the Kickstarter backers on this site. They did the at least one survey for the Mogul perk so people who paid to have their own designed building to be in game are. I'm sure they either already doing the costume side or getting ready for that. They even gave us a link to a website with art from those perks.

As for missing anything... they haven't there the Construction Crew - This perk engraves your name ( or proxy ) on the sponsor’s wall in the Atlas Hurricane Memorial Park and confers access in one of the closed beta access waves + All previous rewards. Estimated delivery: May 201 That one we technically won't see till they post a picture of it. An Ingame thank you done in Ingame art. Not really something you expect to see.

Majority of stuff is for Nov 15 and they always been open to say it estimated time for Alpha build.

Besides I gave them money to help the game not for any goods.

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2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP

Kiyori Anoyui
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Ya not really sure what they

Ya not really sure what they have missed, I have received shirts and have been told that other physical items won't be arriving for quite a bit. Digital items I have gotten surveys for. The Kickstarter Forum K I did not have but that was fixed with a quick email to MWM. They are very quick to respond so I would suggest going directly to MWM with any issues before issuing a report to KS, because it will most likely only hurt instead of help MWM get you whatever assistance or product that you are expecting.

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"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

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RottenLuck wrote:
RottenLuck wrote:

You might want to PM one of them because those of us who have the Kickstarter K on our names have gotten information. Because they have been talking to the Kickstarter backers on this site. They did the at least one survey for the Mogul perk so people who paid to have their own designed building to be in game are. I'm sure they either already doing the costume side or getting ready for that. They even gave us a link to a website with art from those perks.
As for missing anything... they haven't there the Construction Crew - This perk engraves your name ( or proxy ) on the sponsor’s wall in the Atlas Hurricane Memorial Park and confers access in one of the closed beta access waves + All previous rewards. Estimated delivery: May 201 That one we technically won't see till they post a picture of it. An Ingame thank you done in Ingame art. Not really something you expect to see.
Majority of stuff is for Nov 15 and they always been open to say it estimated time for Alpha build.
Besides I gave them money to help the game not for any goods.

I live with someone who gets all the information, and I am a (minor) backer who couldn't afford the "special K". And yet, even so...

From the kickstarter, I thought that the initial date was for the *release* of the full game.

We then learn that the "expected dates" are now instead for the *beta* for the game.

And yet you ahve just said that it is now ALPHA build?

Lets just say, lots of confusion here already.

And yet, if you look on the kickstarter updates (I have just to double check) there is NOTHING officially said from MWM via the kickstarter updates that the "November 2015" date is for "BETA" (or alpha) release.

And yes, I do acknowledge that games take a long time to make.

HOWEVER, I do expect professionals who take money to try to honour it. Or if they miss that, or ahead of time are aware that they are going to miss it, to let people know about it.

So in my mind, they NEED to do a "backer only" (at the very least) update to clarify the situation. The longer the wait, the bigger the silence, the worse it looks for them.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

RottenLuck
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There nothing in the

There nothing in the Kickstarter (read it over to be sure) that the opening day would be august 15. Just a party invite to be delivered august 15 (not that the party will be on that date just when they would have it planned.)

There is also this line in the Kickstarter.

Delays can happen in any project. We had hoped to be further ahead now, but things happen. We have always been honest when issues arose, such as when we had to change our game engine due to licensing issues. We come from a larger community, and are here for you, the player. Life happens, it stinks when it does, but we understand it, and adapt to it.

That short paragraph covers any delays that may show up. So there was no The game will be playable at X time, a delay may happen message. Otherwise you are just ranting about something you assumed. Now there is talk that an Avatar Creator would be released this year and that may end up being in November and this you got confused about thinking it was talk of the full game.

There a full breakdown of the budget posted on the Kickstarter, a regular release of updates, and very open communication on the kickstarter and here. You gave less than 5 bucks (what was needed for the K to show up on these forums). So your whole issue comes down to you didn't look at all the info given. This will be my last post here.

--------------------------------------------------------
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1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP

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RottenLuck wrote:
RottenLuck wrote:

There nothing in the Kickstarter (read it over to be sure) that the opening day would be august 15. Just a party invite to be delivered august 15 (not that the party will be on that date just when they would have it planned.)
There is also this line in the Kickstarter.
Delays can happen in any project. We had hoped to be further ahead now, but things happen. We have always been honest when issues arose, such as when we had to change our game engine due to licensing issues. We come from a larger community, and are here for you, the player. Life happens, it stinks when it does, but we understand it, and adapt to it.
That short paragraph covers any delays that may show up. So there was no The game will be playable at X time, a delay may happen message. Otherwise you are just ranting about something you assumed. Now there is talk that an Avatar Creator would be released this year and that may end up being in November and this you got confused about thinking it was talk of the full game.
There a full breakdown of the budget posted on the Kickstarter, a regular release of updates, and very open communication on the kickstarter and here. You gave less than 5 bucks (what was needed for the K to show up on these forums). So your whole issue comes down to you didn't look at all the info given. This will be my last post here.

Actually I did look at everything. I read every kickstarter update that there is. I also read practically EVERY single post that there is on these forums; and yes, I know that delays can happen.

However, for a NEW person coming here, or even one of their own backers who doesn't read the forums, then they are going to believe that the game is due to release in November of this year.

I have ALREADY had to correct a few people about this. The fact that MWM have done NOTHING in one of their updates specifically answering this question just shows how much a poor job they are doing.

A Launch party would, to the normal person, suggest the game going properly live soon afterwards.

If they are aware that they are not going to be hitting the date, then they should let everyone KNOW that they are not going to be hitting the date. It would be the *sensible* and *honest* thing to do.

The only reason why I couldn't afford the $5 is because that is all that I could afford at the time.

However, I do live with someone who backed more than me, and they are even more in the dark in terms of *WHEN* the project is expected.

However, if the developers cannot be bothered to keep their own backers updated as to the state of play, then that says more about how they think about you, rather than "they are hard at work".

The fact that stuff like this happens and needs clarification from a member of staff (sorry Rotten you are NOT staff, and neither am I) just shows how much of a piss poor job they are doing.

Especially their Community People.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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"piss poor" hunh? I read

"piss poor" hunh? I read only one thing here that matches that description, and it isn't the devs. I'm guessing you are young. I hope so at least. If you're lucky you may live long enough to learn to be more thankful.. and patient for that matter. Life really is much easier that way. Most if not all of us would like to see the game today, but life isn't about instant gratification. Please be patient. Perhaps you could express your interest in a more positive way? If not, perhaps you could focus for a bit on bettering your financial position in life. Then you could play any game you wish or have one built to your specifications. In the mean time please sit back and enjoy the ride.

"THE TITANS ARE COMING! THE TITANS ARE COMING!"

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Ugh we got one of those

Ugh we got one of those people on the forums.......

Formerly known as Bleddyn

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Bleddyn wrote:
Bleddyn wrote:

Ugh we got one of those people on the forums.......

Good morning Bleddyn. Do you mean Gangrel or me?

"THE TITANS ARE COMING! THE TITANS ARE COMING!"

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Hero_Zero wrote:
Hero_Zero wrote:

Bleddyn wrote:
Ugh we got one of those people on the forums.......

Good morning Bleddyn. Do you mean Gangrel or me?
"THE TITANS ARE COMING! THE TITANS ARE COMING!"

Gangrel, he just reminds me too much of previous people I have seen before on other MMO forums.....

Formerly known as Bleddyn

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I will defend Gangrel's right

I will defend Gangrel's right to comment, I have met him and I suspect he's not what you expect IRL.

I would however point to the word ESTIMATED on the KS.

Tech Team and Forum Moderator

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I've known Gangrel since 2007

I've known Gangrel since 2007-2008 as a poster and forum provider for Tabula Rasa. I haven't met him in real life, but for me that's not necessary.

I'd say you have been too hasty in your rush to judgement, Bleddyn. You may want to revise your opinion ...


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Good points Redlynne and

Good points Redlynne and Minotaur.

Looking at some of Gangrel's other posts on the forums I'd say he seems a little out of sorts on this thread. I'm not sure why he went so negative.

"THE TITANS ARE COMING! THE TITANS ARE COMING!"

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If I were to harbor a guess,

If I were to harbor a guess, it would be that Gangrel's been through too many shutdowns, and as a result holds a lot back. He serves a role much as the passenger within the chariot when the General rode in to Rome triumphant. While the general is lauded, his passenger would be whispering about how fortune is fickle and fame fleeting, It helped to keep the general honest and grounded.

I welcome Gangrel's contribution, for deep down he wants this to succeed. He just reminds us of any and every way we can fail, and foreknowledge is forewarned.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

If I were to harbor a guess, it would be that Gangrel's been through too many shutdowns, and as a result holds a lot back. He serves a role much as the passenger within the chariot when the General rode in to Rome triumphant. While the general is lauded, his passenger would be whispering about how fortune is fickle and fame fleeting, It helped to keep the general honest and grounded.
I welcome Gangrel's contribution, for deep down he wants this to succeed. He just reminds us of any and every way we can fail, and foreknowledge is forewarned.

Heh... i think he was watching the "ATARI: Game Over" documentary on Netflix and got scared. :P
FYI: Yes, they DID find the Landfill where the ET games where Buried. ;D

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That documentary would scare

That documentary would scare anyone.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

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All the delivery estimates

All the delivery estimates were based on assumptions that were later found to be false.

One of the biggest was that they would be using Unreal Engine 3, which they had a lot of experience with and had done most of their engine-based work with up to the Kickstarter launch. Later, the team was persuaded--by hook or crook, can't tell because of NDAs--to switch to the new Unreal Engine 4. Unfortunately, the way these engines work, you do not want to just go on developing code to the old API and expect some compatibility layer to fix everything up; you need to go through the thing ("to understand any chapter of the docs, you must understand all of the docs" comes to mind) and overhaul all your plans and designs, not just your function calls. As some developers have put it, their biggest problem from then until now has been unlearning the limitations of the old engine, because the new engine can just do so much more.

And as any software engineering manager (P.S. it's the same in hardware land, too; I bat for both teams) can tell you, that scale of change is tantamount to taking your schedule and feeding it to the shredder. Do not pass GO, do not collect 200 IGC.

There are other things that have impacted the schedule as well, such as one problem that hit right after the Kickstarter funded: they had lots of trouble actually buying the licenses because they weren't a traditional brick-and-morter studio with an actual physical address! Companies that force you to use license managers for their software are notoriously paranoid about giving out keys locked to machines which for all they know are virtual machines that everyone clones so they only need one license. I'm not sure how they eventually resolved this.

Honestly, they're a lot farther along than I expected for people who changed horses mid-stream. But Gangrel has a point: it's not like any new, reliable delivery dates have been published (as opposed to off-the-record guesses by individual developers, which is kind of a blind-men-with-elephant problem). So from where we sit outside here, this doesn't look any different from the next Duke Nukem Forever.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

All the delivery estimates were based on assumptions that were later found to be false.
One of the biggest was that they would be using Unreal Engine 3, which they had a lot of experience with and had done most of their engine-based work with up to the Kickstarter launch. Later, the team was persuaded--by hook or crook, can't tell because of NDAs--to switch to the new Unreal Engine 4. Unfortunately, the way these engines work, you do not want to just go on developing code to the old API and expect some compatibility layer to fix everything up; you need to go through the thing ("to understand any chapter of the docs, you must understand all of the docs" comes to mind) and overhaul all your plans and designs, not just your function calls. As some developers have put it, their biggest problem from then until now has been unlearning the limitations of the old engine, because the new engine can just do so much more.
And as any software engineering manager (P.S. it's the same in hardware land, too; I bat for both teams) can tell you, that scale of change is tantamount to taking your schedule and feeding it to the shredder. Do not pass GO, do not collect 200 IGC.
There are other things that have impacted the schedule as well, such as one problem that hit right after the Kickstarter funded: they had lots of trouble actually buying the licenses because they weren't a traditional brick-and-morter studio with an actual physical address! Companies that force you to use license managers for their software are notoriously paranoid about giving out keys locked to machines which for all they know are virtual machines that everyone clones so they only need one license. I'm not sure how they eventually resolved this.
Honestly, they're a lot farther along than I expected for people who changed horses mid-stream. But Gangrel has a point: it's not like any new, reliable delivery dates have been published (as opposed to off-the-record guesses by individual developers, which is kind of a blind-men-with-elephant problem). So from where we sit outside here, this doesn't look any different from the next Duke Nukem Forever.

I *hope* by June we should have enough time behind us to be able to produce new estimated schedule we can nail down and stick to. If we announced schedule updates without enough foot-time, we'd just need to update the schedule again, and again, much like DNF did for the first few years. (I still have a poster which has DNF's release date in 1998 somewhere in storage)

I used to work for one of the neo-Amiga companies, and if you missed it, 15 years ago or so, the schedule for Amiga was so wild, it simply was nuts. It got to the point that "Two More Weeks" became a running gag in the community, because schedule promises were invariably two more weeks out. That is a scenario I very much want to avoid.

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Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

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These last two posts by Lin

To me, these last two posts by Lin and Doc are the clearest summation in one place of where we've been, where we are, and what's next that I've seen--at least in a big picture way for the lay-person like me.

I hope a lot of people read this. I think it could a long way towards bringing expectations into focus and restoring perspective and comfort/confidence in where we are for those who have been feeling unsure of what's going on.

And I have to say, after lots of online research (again, by a laymen), I'm glad MWM had the foresight and guts to switch to UE4 and the fortitude to deal with the switch--even though it means I have to wait a little longer for the only game that I really want to play :P.

Thanks, y'all!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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It's amazing how the same

It's amazing how the same kind of comment from two different people can be interpreted in 2 completely different ways and thus defended by a group instead of attacked by one, just because one person's name is more familiar than others

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED !!

ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED !!

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

It's amazing how the same kind of comment from two different people can be interpreted in 2 completely different ways and thus defended by a group instead of attacked by one, just because one person's name is more familiar than others

I'm curious exactly what you mean by that.

I will say that the same kind of comment comment is not the same comment, and more than an eagle is a hen just because they are both birds.

So saying it is "just" because it is by a name people are more familiar with, unless it is actually exactly the exact same comment rather than just the same kind of comment, is most likely not the case.

Language has both denotative meaning and rich connotative meaning which has very real communicative function. So the same kind of statement can have a very different feel, effect on people, and actual meaning.

So, all I'm saying is, it's highly unlikely it really is "just" the name unless it is exactly the same comment.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean - you're probably

Empyrean - you're probably right man, I can't go searching for the exact quotes right now because I'm at work and doing anything besides a standard post is difficult navigation wise on an iPhone. I'm just thinking of other times that I've read posts where people have kind of been calling the devs out on not keeping to schedules and such, and they seem to just get blasted out of the skies by the same people who are now defending gangreal because they say they know him from the past. As if that gives his opinion more meaning than someone who's new to the forums.

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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Well, I just wasn't sure

Well, I just wasn't sure exactly what you were referring to. I may or may not be right :P.

To use your example, I don't know Gangrel other than from these forums or the specific posts you're thinking of, but it is possible that he is more tolerated by some because he's known to them.

In this case people seem to be defending him rather than his post. His post was a bit of a rant with some name-calling, and some people did call him on it.

Edit: See SavageFist below for people calling him on it.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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If they were true

If they were true professionals, they would be paid an hourly wage or salary so they could work on this full-time. I don't mean that as a slam as I know there are professionals performing a full time job not associated with this project and there are amateurs also probably working full time jobs not associated with this project. I mean professional as in they are paid the appropriate wage by the company, something not possible right now. If professional timelines are expected then cough up the dough so they can work on this project all the time and not worry about bills. It's great the devs see where Gangrel is coming from but anytime these discussions come up, it seems the reality of the situation is glossed over:

1) Kickstarter is not a pre-order such as buying on Steam. You make a pledge. Learn the difference.
2) Not everyone is a professional developer, artist, writer, etc. Eventually they will make it and this explanation(notice I did not say excuse) will not carry as much weight as time goes on.
3) This is a volunteer project. NO ONE is collecting a paycheck. (see previous professional comment). Let me say this again because this for some reason doesn't get brought up in these conversations. VOLUNTEER, VOLUNTEER, VOLUNTEER. Please think what that means in reality not what you wish were happening.
4) To pay bills these wonderful people work other jobs to keep the lights on so when they get home, decide to ignore their kids, significant other or put off household chores they have the ability to continue building a new world using a computer, electricity and internet that MWM cannot pay for at this time. We should understand that this is a minimal amount of time compared to a fully funded AAA or even AA project so throw out any conceptions of timelines you have read about over the years.
5) $700K is nothing, NOTHING when building an MMO. (see all previous comments for further context).
6) probably some other points I missed why we need to re-write our expectation of how this MMO is being built.

If this comes off a little harsh, good, because hopefully you can respect my outrage at Gangrels comments as much as you respect his criticism of the project. I also have a bigger chunk of change at stake than he does, not that I didn't realize what I was getting into when backing a Kickstarter project.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

SavageFist
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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

Empyrean - you're probably right man, I can't go searching for the exact quotes right now because I'm at work and doing anything besides a standard post is difficult navigation wise on an iPhone. I'm just thinking of other times that I've read posts where people have kind of been calling the devs out on not keeping to schedules and such, and they seem to just get blasted out of the skies by the same people who are now defending gangreal because they say they know him from the past. As if that gives his opinion more meaning than someone who's new to the forums.

I know what you are referring to and understand but that is all I'm going to say in this thread.

On topic and just in general, I wish more people would understand the reality of the situation and what is being attempted here so they think twice before commenting. See my rant above.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

Izzy
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SavageFist wrote:
SavageFist wrote:

I mean professional as in they are paid the appropriate wage by the company, something not possible right now. If professional timelines are expected then cough up the dough so they can work on this project all the time and not worry about bills.

+1

Pay me Too! :D

Oh wait, i didn't help! :<

-----signature------
* What!!?? I don't ALWAYS go for cheap laughs. :/
* Ok.. NOW pay me! ;D

SavageFist
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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

SavageFist wrote:
I mean professional as in they are paid the appropriate wage by the company, something not possible right now. If professional timelines are expected then cough up the dough so they can work on this project all the time and not worry about bills.
+1
Pay me Too! :D

Oh wait, i didn't help! :<
-----signature------
* What!!?? I don't ALWAYS go for cheap laughs. :/
* Ok.. NOW pay me! ;D

I have really dangerous internet habits. I still wanted to click on that picture. /shudders at my conditioning

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

Empyrean - you're probably right man, I can't go searching for the exact quotes right now because I'm at work and doing anything besides a standard post is difficult navigation wise on an iPhone. I'm just thinking of other times that I've read posts where people have kind of been calling the devs out on not keeping to schedules and such, and they seem to just get blasted out of the skies by the same people who are now defending gangreal because they say they know him from the past. As if that gives his opinion more meaning than someone who's new to the forums.

Nah, I get slammed by the same people. Just not always publicly.

Sometimes I have a point inside my wall of texts (or even short comments).

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

If I were to harbor a guess, it would be that Gangrel's been through too many shutdowns, and as a result holds a lot back. He serves a role much as the passenger within the chariot when the General rode in to Rome triumphant. While the general is lauded, his passenger would be whispering about how fortune is fickle and fame fleeting, It helped to keep the general honest and grounded.
I welcome Gangrel's contribution, for deep down he wants this to succeed. He just reminds us of any and every way we can fail, and foreknowledge is forewarned.

I apologize for slamming Gangel on my behalf. When I wrote that comment I was having a real shitty day and my cynical disposition reached a new low. Your evaluation of Gangrel is ironically exactly what I thought but as I have said I have seen so many negative comments from people that day in other boards that I frequent simply stopped caring after reading the first line/paragraph/whichever of the post.

To be brutally honest I completely forgot I made such a comment so I again I apologize for it (that's to Red and whomever else picked up on it). I understand why he said that though because it's a realistic possibility. I think I just didn't want to think of another MMO letdown again so I tried to push the possibility out of mind....

Formerly known as Bleddyn

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This community makes me happy

This community makes me happy. What could have been a flame war turned into a productive conversation.

We gotta do what ever we can to make sure THIS community gets THIS game. And by "this community" I mean the greater community, not just we vocal forumites :).

Y'all rule.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Well I hoped I handled that

Well I hoped I handled that maturely. If it helps much Gangrel is one of the nicest cynical critics I have seen on the great many of forum boards I have been on. The others (the ones I show disdain for and they were the reason my opinion on the negative critic comments were soured that day) usually were a whole lot meaner.

I hope that can be considered a compliment. I don't want to raise a flame shield against people I didn't intend to offend again

Formerly known as Bleddyn

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Lin Chiao Feng
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So long as the trend line

So long as the trend line points toward increased civility, I'm happy.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

So long as the trend line points toward increased civility, I'm happy.

+1

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Bleddyn wrote:
Bleddyn wrote:

Well I hoped I handled that maturely. If it helps much Gangrel is one of the nicest cynical critics I have seen on the great many of forum boards I have been on. The others (the ones I show disdain for and they were the reason my opinion on the negative critic comments were soured that day) usually were a whole lot meaner.
I hope that can be considered a compliment. I don't want to raise a flame shield against people I didn't intend to offend again

No offence taken. We all have our off days.

And I wont be the first one to say that I am highly opinionated about certain topics; and that can rub people the wrong way

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Kiyori Anoyui
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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

And I wont be the first one to say that I am highly opinionated about certain topics; and that can rub people the wrong way

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

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Must deflect urge to find

Must deflect urge to find funny memes....

Formerly known as Bleddyn

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Lin Chiao Feng
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Bleddyn wrote:
Bleddyn wrote:

Must deflect urge to find funny memes....

Why? If anything, people are too damn serious here.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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[b]Don't take life too

Don't take life too Seriously
no one gets out alive...

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Oh yeah! This is a game, isn

Oh yeah! This is a game, isn't it? :P

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

ectomy
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We all are a little saddle

We all are a little saddle sore. Been a long were's our city at...Titans are coming and we'll be them.

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

This community makes me happy. What could have been a flame war turned into a productive conversation.
We gotta do what ever we can to make sure THIS community gets THIS game. And by "this community" I mean the greater community, not just we vocal forumites :).
Y'all rule.

Yes to this, I agree! There are many conversations in this forum that get a little heated, but still manage to be productive. As for this topic, I agree with the communication point. As a 'higher' dollar backer, I'd like to see more communication, but I also understood going in with the Kickstarter that MWM is a new group. Experienced in their own way, but there would be (and have been) some speed bumps and missed milestones. There will be more to come and I think most of us are in for the long haul - passionate about the spiritual successor.

There has also been a lot of discussion around the potential second crowd sourcing (or whatever you want to call it) and it's ripple effect on what is likely a mass of fickle knee-jerkers. Personally, I would not expect a group that has not attempted the development of a game like this (and I personally want to see this through as a backer, not rush a game out the door that's just not ready) to meet budget expectations or time lines - just was not my expectation. If MWM came out and honestly said they could use some more crowd sourcing and for what - I would listen and likely pitch in. But, I would expect them (MWM) to continue to be honest as they have been.

"it's a long road to wisdom, but it's a short one to being ignored." The Lumineers

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If it helps, one of the major

If it helps, one of the major reasons for the second KS is to hire one or two or five full time 3D folks to start making all the costume pieces and building parts we need.

We're hoping to have all the systems needed for that functional enough to say 'this is how the game will work'. And then we can hire full-timers to follow the rules we've built.

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And an animator. We could use

And an animator. We could use a really good animator, there's a lot more work to do.

Project Lead

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

And an animator. We could use a really good animator, there's a lot more work to do.

I wonder if its cheaper to get a student that graduated from a 3D animation school?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5j2eq0zNHU&index=1&list=PL649179D8A6DA6BB8

They'd Prob do it just for the experience... and resume. ;D

I wonder, would a Creature Animator be allot more versatile? :[

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Going back to the original

Going back to the original post, I think perhaps a better question might be "When do we get that costume design thingy to play with?" I also want to applaud the mature adults in the room (and by that I mean, like, everyone in the room) for avoiding a flame war via rational thought and compromise. Bravo.

One idea you could do to get graphic design people would be the thing Magic did to get card designers a few times. Have a contest, advertise it to fans and artsy types, and award the winner an entry-level full time job designing for the game. Maybe give the entrants access to some E4 engine-equipped rigs for them to make their submissions on (perhaps at the "Final Four" round or something) and stipulate that any and all work done on the E4 engine computers that they are provided access to is, by contest rules, owned by MWM outright as soon as they create it.

Another thing I would say is, when it comes to costume pieces (or any assets) that you get made, don't throw anything away just because it isn't what you had in mind. If the assignment is "Space suit" and you end up with a lot of stuff that just doesn't look right for that, USE it for whatever it DOES look right for, OR, just throw it onto the heap of vaguely undefined stuff in the costume creator library. We, the players, will take any and every costume piece you want to add to the kitty, no questions asked. Please save all the table scraps that are not offensive or apt to crash the game or whatever.
Magic has done these contests in the past and they ended up hiring more people than just the overall winner at various times.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

warcabbit wrote:
And an animator. We could use a really good animator, there's a lot more work to do.

I wonder if its cheaper to get a student that graduated from a 3D animation school?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5j2eq0zNHU&index=1&list=PL649179D8A6DA6BB8
They'd Prob do it just for the experience... and resume. ;D
I wonder, would a Creature Animator be allot more versatile? :[

Of course it's possible, but then you're stuck with student-quality work, and it will be harder to upgrade because it will be legacy code and changing it will break some end users' stuff. Kind of like how CoH kept the mitten hands even after their Type-R coding team overhauled so much else in Going Rogue.

At work, the products of student work are invariably "don't touch, you might break it" or "if we want it to work better, we have to redo it." Even the stuff I did as a student, and the first few years after.

You don't want people making their First Timer Mistakes on a serious project where you don't have more senior folks to catch and fix/prevent the problems. And if you're only getting one animator... well, shoot, you'd just about have to send someone over to Studio Ghibli with a blackjack to get one.

Students and recent grads are cheaper for a reason.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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I agree with Lin. You get

I agree with Lin. You get what you pay for and as a backer, I;m up for additional support to get the developers the right support. I'd imagine that early design and asset decisions can hurt options later on (I'm guessing based on what I read about CoX, I'm not a software developer).

"it's a long road to wisdom, but it's a short one to being ignored." The Lumineers

Izzy
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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Izzy wrote:
warcabbit wrote:
And an animator. We could use a really good animator, there's a lot more work to do.

I wonder if its cheaper to get a student that graduated from a 3D animation school?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5j2eq0zNHU&index=1&list=PL649179D8A6DA6BB8
They'd Prob do it just for the experience... and resume. ;D
I wonder, would a Creature Animator be allot more versatile? :[

Of course it's possible, but then you're stuck with student-quality work, and it will be harder to upgrade because it will be legacy code and changing it will break some end users' stuff. Kind of like how CoH kept the mitten hands even after their Type-R coding team overhauled so much else in Going Rogue.
At work, the products of student work are invariably "don't touch, you might break it" or "if we want it to work better, we have to redo it." Even the stuff I did as a student, and the first few years after.
You don't want people making their First Timer Mistakes on a serious project where you don't have more senior folks to catch and fix/prevent the problems. And if you're only getting one animator... well, shoot, you'd just about have to send someone over to Studio Ghibli with a blackjack to get one.
Students and recent grads are cheaper for a reason.

Not developer... 3D Animators.

Isn't it easy to spot a student with a keen sense for animation from their work?
I'm no animator, so I'm curious. :)