EDITED TO INCLUDE ALTERNATE OPTION
As we know, the Character Creator is due to be released late this year.
Its been said that it will include as many costume options as possible (as well as a surprise but that's another topic).
My suggestion is to accept submissions based on the models template as a sort of 'book of inspirations' for future costumes.
A bit of explaining for those not familiar with common texturing of a 3d model.
Most 3d models are separated into component parts and a texture map is taken from the model. These usually look similar to this
[img]http://skinprops.com/undertow/html/images/undertow/uvtmpl_ex2.jpg[/img]
Its basically the surface area of the model laid flat then the design is painted onto it and applied to the model which wraps around creating the paint. After which certain other effects are included to create depth, shading ect to the costume which brings it to life. In effect its like a coloring book and you need to stay in the lines.
(the above is a VERY simplified description of model painting for those who have no experience in the area...if you need further clarification on it PM as opposed to posting as its not exactly what the thread is about).
Anyway...description done....I suggest the devs release the current template for the character models and let the community play around and either post them here (as inspiration) or a submission area where a complete file can be submitted (including any additional options such as bmp for example).
Just to head off the inevitable argument...no I am not suggesting the devs review all of them for official inclusion (they already have said they have thought about that for later) nor am I suggesting that the artists stop working and review these submissions.
I am simply suggesting a creative outlet for those in the community who have artistic talent. These are the members of the community who can spend some free time to create a small selection of costume options but cannot devote the time to create the vast amount the artists are required to do.
At worst the community gets a look under the hood of what it takes to make an interesting costume....at best a well made complete texture file could be submitted for inclusion with minor tweaks.
Just another thing the community can get involved in. (Plus the devs can see just how much interest there is in costume development from the community and what the general skill level is if they make their own official submission option it has hard data to draw on.
Whaddayathink?
As an alternative.....I could personally upload a simple template from a couple of models I have access to and then time permited I can take any submissions...apply the designs to my models for the community to see.
Keep in mind...this way means that I will NOT be able to do them all as I do have other things I do in a day.
If I have some time tomorrow and I can post instructions on how to paint a template for those that don't know. And include an example of one of my own simple designs.
That is of course if people actually want this.
I'm honestly trying to find a downside to releasing the model as a "paper doll" kind of exercise and then turning people loose on it. So long as people understand the expectation that these are NOT submissions for active review by staff, then I don't really see the harm. At worst, the model(s) may be so detailed that people with little experience are confounded by the exercise, limiting the appeal. Still, it's something that could generate community interest in seeing what people do with the toys ...
Just about the only objection I can think of is if MWM wants to keep their models somehow proprietary or otherwise don't want to publicly share the nuts and bolts of them (for various and sundry reasons).
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
From what I understand "Cassandra" is proprietary in that it's not a system ever used before and created specifically for MWM games.
Crowd Control Enthusiast
I understand there are probably some potential players out there who understand the details behind what it takes to create costumes in game like this and I'm sure they would be very interested to see actual examples of the work being done by our Devs or even be able to directly submit their own files/data needed to allow their own items. But the vast majority of people out there don't have the specialized knowledge/experience for that and they would be left out of being able to be involved in this.
This leads us back to something this forum has talked about before: The general idea that MWM may allow for some kind of system of formal submissions for customized costume items after launch. Using the example of paying for the Kickstater perk related to this I think players could submit detailed descriptions for items (using the best methods they have available such as pictures/drawings) and let the Devs prioritize and artistically produce what can be done with those submissions based on whatever timeframe they can schedule. The Devs could then charge players depending on how much effort it would take to create. If the Devs could only comfortably handle making one player submission a week then that's what we'll have to accept.
Under such as system no player will have to know anything about the nitty-gritty details of what it actually takes to create costumes because those details will be handled by the Devs. This also eliminates any problems of exposing "Cassandra" or any other proprietary methods to people who should not have access to that.
Now I suppose if knowledgeable/artistic people want to freely donate ready-made files/data to the Devs with no expectations that the Devs will use any of it or accept that the Devs would be free to modify any donations as they see fit then I'd have no problem with that. The key point to any of this is that the Devs would have the final say-so about anything that makes it into the game regardless of its source.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Replying to a few people at once.
and
While it is possible to reverse engineer a model from a template it would not actually include any kind of armature. It would be a static model with no moving parts. In essence they would not be the same model...especially if the template was simplified so that it does not include every edge, vertex or face. Plus there is no way to know if the model is a group of separate parts that have a texture applied from one file or a single model with multiple areas keyed to certain parts. To show what I mean....that template I used as an example is actually multiple parts linked and a single texture applied to it.
If MWM was worried about keeping the models proprietary this would not compromise that in any significant way (not sure about legally compromising though....many companies that make 3d models release the template to the public so I doubt it would hurt them that way either.)
The only thing I can see them wanting to guard is the template itself as it could give more insight into the character creation program than they wish to reveal before its release....after its release it will be open to anyone with access to the program and those they share it with....I actually designed my own costume sets for CoH and sent them to the devs....I used a model ripper and got the template from that.
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I am not so sure. A simple tutorial can be put online with pictures and a short video (flash or not) to explain what the results of drawing on the template would be. Remember, I am not expecting a vast amount of complete texture files that include nodes, bmps, diffuse, specular ect ect ect. Basically it would be a simple image to work with in MS paint.
But for those that DO know how to do this and do it well (I can do it but not well)...it might give the artists a nice springboard for a new costume set.
I made reference to that. This is not that....at all. The devs had stated they were looking at ways to include player submitted costumes. (note I said looking at ...not going to include).
As I said...in regards to the many ways suggested in that thread for player submitted designs...this would give the devs a solid source of hard data to draw on when determining if they do actually do it and how to do it best.
That's just it. A person does not need vast amounts of knowledge to play around with this. They DO need a lot more knowledge if they want to make a complete file that would have depth and overlays ect. But to just make a design that works on a logical level...that's not tough.
Whats more... most templates can be modded slightly to fit other models of the same basic shape....for example.. the template I used as an example can be used for male or female, big or small. So an enterprising member of the community could use one of the MANY free human shape models....cut and paste a player made texture to fit another template and run it through another free program like Blender to show the texture as it would look on a model.
The idea was to create an outlet for the artistic designs of the players and bring the community together as those designs are brought to life ....all without much effort from the devs.
Of course...why I specified the devs or artists would only look at it if they wanted to....it was a suggestion for the community...but to do it right it does require a bit of dev involvement.
I rather see 3rd party base building assets 1st. :D
Not sure what one has to do with the other. Or even how one makes the other not possible.
Unless I am missing something very obvious (which is possible...sooo tired ...just spent the week moving.) I think you are suggesting something completely separate than what I am suggesting....which deserves its own thread...not a jack.
Sowwy! :<
I'm kinda tired too.. went to see Mission Impossible in theaters, and I was a tad disappointed with the finale.
I'm not against this... but as a fan, would want to steer content creators towards things players can use right away that can make CoT a lot more fun for us Builder types. ;D
But its apples and oranges....I'm suggesting a paint job...you want actual models built (I'm better at that than textures but still not great at either).
Honestly....I doubt base item modeling will be exceptionally difficult for the art team....if you look at the model for the hall that was in the videos...they should be making some truly cool stuff for bases.
Besides....my suggestion was not for actual submission....more just an art thread that people can post too...with the added benefit that the texture could be applied to a model.
Heck....I think I will add an edit to the OP to offer an alternate suggestion.
If this is only about "paint jobs", as you put it, and not about 3D models then it will put a severe limit on what costumes we would be able to submit through this. A big part of the joy of creating is to actually create completely new "items", not just repainting existing ones.
Sure, it may save the devs some effort when getting ready made textures but I just don't see that many using it, at least not outside of "tights or skin" types of submissions.
I'm not speaking of any particular "models" created with Cassandra, i'm speaking of Cassandra itself.
The "engine" that has all of the capabilities to create an end-model (not the game engine but the Avatar creation/customization engine) is Cassandra and is something they could not simply re-create or buy an existing version. They created something unique.
While you may be able to create a model of an existing something WITH Cassandra you'll need to know the parameters of Cassandra to create your own assets to be used by the engine. Not saying they won't release these specs.. I'm just saying that the specs are likely not fully formed just yet even if they wanted to. And until those parameters are KNOWN there's no reason to make a call or decision on what will be feasible
Crowd Control Enthusiast
I guess that's why artists never paint on a canvas anymore.
And just so you know.... all the options under the heading of tights or tights with skin in CoH used the same template...from a simple t-shirt to the techbot design.
So yes you are right...you will not be able to design a unique belt, shoulder pads or hat....but the VAST majority of costume options in CoH were created using the same template. Don't believe me...check out Paragon Chat and look closely at the costume parts under the tights and tights with skin category.
Using this template you can create simple patterns like stripes or polka dots.... and you can create highly detailed armor pads with chainmail bracers and leather laces up the back. Heck...I would love to see someone come up with a pattern design that has stylized letters or world flags as a concept.
Just so you everyone can understand a bit more clearly....To create the entire Avengers Movie costumes in CoH you could do so fairly easy using parts just from the tights section.
You lost me then....how does this relate to the topic?
Just looking at the mesh itself, why do we have a whole region devoted to the nipples? Is it so we can have powers that originate from there?
[youtube]tXQT99470wI[/youtube]
Just asking.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
There will be a big crowd from the Moders if they can submit creations to be in game. I use a lot of mods for Skyrim and a good number are costumes.
There will also be those who will try to use nudes and other such outfits.
We will need to figure out how to filter the trash before talking about giving tools to the players in my view. Maybe a Peer review possess before the outfit goes to the Devs. Hate for them to have to spend the time looking at all the outfits (and all the color, texture combos) to make sure someone not slipping a design through that would be to reviling.
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
CoH allowed for "client only" clothing mods. If CoT also allows those then you can bet plenty of them will be "nude" mods just like those that have existed for other games for decades. Because those would be "client-side" only the Devs would have no direct control over them (just as they didn't in CoH).
But if CoT ends up allowing player submitted clothing items that would be reviewed for inclusion into the main game for all players to use then you can be assured they will be vetted for "appropriateness" well before they are ever loaded/patched into the game. I doubt the Devs would need a separate group of people to "peer review" submissions before they see them because they are going to need to be the final judges as to whether something can get into the main game regardless. It's not like the Devs are going to get so many millions of submissions that they won't easily be able to decide if any of them would instantly allow for naughty amounts of nudity.
Remember if the Devs actually choose to allow player submitted items into the main game for everyone to use they can do it at any rate they want. If they choose to only allow say 10 player created items in a month because that's the fastest they can find the time to review and process them properly then that's the way it will be. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Personally, I would be ecstatic if all I could do was design tights/skin patterns and submit them via some dev judging pipeline for game inclusion. I advocated this waaay. back.
Maybe this requires a third party to put together, but what about a simple application that just gave you a static model using the MWM basic manikins and you could "paint" on them using a variety of preset shapes and textures? This tech already exists. I'm thinking of something like the paint and vinyls application in a Need for Speed or Forza type garage. Where you pick from a catalog of shapes, then scale, distort and position them using simple tools to create an overall pattern. This program could then do all the necessary cutting and splicing of the skin so it could be used as individual components.
If MWM were savvy about it, this program could be used to endlessly generate new patterns for game inclusion. Heck, do a Second Life kind of store with UGC costume patterns and take a cut after paying the creator. Voila, revenue stream.
For me, and I suspect a lot of others like me, the creativity afforded by the above mentioned driving games and the Costume Creator in CoH are what draw me to the game in the first place. My only worry is that if I spend any more time than I already do in the character creator, there wont be any time left to play the actual content. :)
IIRC I think the Devs have already mentioned that they are going to allow for something like this for positioning body tattoos on our skin. If that's correct then the idea of of having a "variety of preset shapes and textures" for clothing doesn't really seem all that different.
I'd still love to be able to submit unique clothing ideas to the Devs, but I think the mechanism for being able to put "patterns on existing clothing" will already be in place in the costume creator. That won't allow for Second Life degrees of freedom, but it'll be much more than what CoH provided.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
You mean something like the "painting" system in APB Reloaded? That would be really sweet, and they have such a system for tattoos cars and clothes respectively.
Yeah that was the basic idea. Pretty sure I've read somewhere on these forums that the Devs either "are" going to have that kind of thing for CoT at launch or at least "want" to have that kind of thing eventually which would be good news either way.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
APB is a great model to emulate the functionality that I'd like to see in CoT
Crowd Control Enthusiast