the Ultimate Customizable Mastermind

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Cyclops
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the Ultimate Customizable Mastermind

I think the consensus is to customize your own minions with the character creator.
with that said. COH organized minions into three tiers.

I suggest keeping the tiers and dividing them by powers. Players can then customize them however they see fit. Robots, storm troopers, thugs, etc. In fact each minion can look very different from the rest.

Tier 1) the lowest level offered 3 minions.

Blasters: any energy type. with fire point choices just like other players will get.
(mine will look like super villains in costume)

Gunners: hand guns, machine guns, hand grenades, etc.

Ninja types

Melee types: any melee from swords to Super strength

Undead types (odd powers: darkness, life drain, etc) Remember they don't have to look like zombies, they could look like vampires (But if they twinkle in the sunlight I am so going PvP on you)

TIER 2 Tougher minions, Two are offered

You have the same choices as above, but you can mix and match. So you can have three Tier 1 blasters, and two Tier 2 melee brutes.

Tier 3) toughest minion. only one offered.
as stated before you can mix and match. I would like to go Gunner with this and have a floating robot tank turret. KaaaaBOOOM!

This is what I really really want. please Devs. Make true customization available. Thanks.

My Mastermind would have his own super villain team, each one in costume.
3 blasters (fire, ice and laser), 2 brutes, and one monster gunner robot named Gort.

##### CLARIFICATION ################################
when i say Blasters and Brutes I refer only to the minion version available in COH, not the player version. thank you.

Lothic
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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

I think the consensus is to customize your own minions with the character creator.

This is clearly what many people have been asking for ever since Masterminds were released in CoH.

Assuming that CoT follows the same pattern of having 3 tier one pets, 2 tier two pets and 1 tier three pet it really doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to provide a specialized costume slot GUI with six slots that would let Masterminds either pick from default pet sets or uniquely design each pet attached to the Mastermind. Then whenever the given Mastermind summoned pets of various tiers the game would use the customized pets pre-designated by the player based on whatever's saved in the "six pack" GUI.

This concept of linking specialized costume slots to characters could be expanded to all characters (not just masterminds) to allow for things like a "Secret Identity" costume slot (a free slot to let everyone have a chance to have a "civilian" plain clothes version of their character) and a "Sidekick Pet" costume slot (which would allow all characters to design a non-combat pet customized any way they wanted).

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Lin Chiao Feng
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I'm tempted to advance a

I'm tempted to advance a "conservation of Ninjutsu" system as a counterproposal, instead of having a cookie-cutter pet six-pack. The idea being that, at the least, players would be able to put together sets of minions with whatever individuals they want but buying them on a point system, with the points available starting small and going up with level (or whatever). Maybe an endgame group of 1 boss, 2 LTs and 3 minions works for you... or 2 bosses... or maybe 1 boss and 12 underlings (think Rikti monkeys). The idea being that the various combinations would work out to more-or-less the same power level, using a system similar to (if not exactly the same as) whatever system the game uses to determine the composition of NPC spawn groups.

As for the specific power sets, remember that the focus of the sets will be on the powers' effects and not necessarily the implementation. So not "gunners" as much as "ranged physical and knockback with some AoE" which could involve boulders or even pointed insults and not just guns and grenades.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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I like the idea of having the

I like the idea of having the option to create customized appearances for pets, similar to the character creator, where players could go with generics, or make their own from scratch

Tannim222
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One of my white board lists

One of my white board lists for designing Summons Sets does indeed have sets with varying numbers of pets from 1 to well, I can't get into ratios but let's leave it at more than the old game.

Now do to hownthe underlying system for powe set designs will be done this won't be possible for each Summons set individually. So there isn't a point buy system for "pick uour pet" just as there isn't a point buy system for "pick your power".

It is a matter of testing as a songle pet set and a 'many' pet set need to provide relative performance. A single pet could prove too strong and too 'many' pets could get pasted too frequently. As we need all options to be viable at all levels and types of play.

Either way it is our hope to allow for a wide range of customization to summons sets. And it should go without saying but "nothing is set in stone" in this regard yet.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

One of my white board lists for designing Summons Sets does indeed have sets with varying numbers of pets from 1 to well, I can't get into ratios but let's leave it at more than the old game.
Now do to hownthe underlying system for powe set designs will be done this won't be possible for each Summons set individually. So there isn't a point buy system for "pick uour pet" just as there isn't a point buy system for "pick your power".
It is a matter of testing as a songle pet set and a 'many' pet set need to provide relative performance. A single pet could prove too strong and too 'many' pets could get pasted too frequently. As we need all options to be viable at all levels and types of play.
Either way it is our hope to allow for a wide range of customization to summons sets. And it should go without saying but "nothing is set in stone" in this regard yet.

i sorta like the Thugs approach. A small but Self Sufficient team. Able to meet minimum requirements for sustainability.

Pets as a whole form a Symbiosis. Circle of Life.. or as some say The Trifecta.
One can last long, One can provide Buffs, Heals, etc.. and the last one Damage.
3 might be the minimum.. but you can always Divide up one pet into two Weaker ones that serve that role.

If I had a choice, If possible, I would always stick with just 3,
and not try to divide the Support into 2 weaker pets.

But i suppose it depends on how hard the Difficulty settings are at the time. ;D

Lin Chiao Feng
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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

One of my white board lists for designing Summons Sets does indeed have sets with varying numbers of pets from 1 to well, I can't get into ratios but let's leave it at more than the old game.
Now do to hownthe underlying system for powe set designs will be done this won't be possible for each Summons set individually. So there isn't a point buy system for "pick uour pet" just as there isn't a point buy system for "pick your power".
It is a matter of testing as a songle pet set and a 'many' pet set need to provide relative performance. A single pet could prove too strong and too 'many' pets could get pasted too frequently. As we need all options to be viable at all levels and types of play.
Either way it is our hope to allow for a wide range of customization to summons sets. And it should go without saying but "nothing is set in stone" in this regard yet.

If power set progressions could work like skill trees, this would be more manageable. You still wouldn't have a point buy system, but you could have more than one track.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

One of my white board lists for designing Summons Sets does indeed have sets with varying numbers of pets from 1 to well, I can't get into ratios but let's leave it at more than the old game.
Now do to hownthe underlying system for powe set designs will be done this won't be possible for each Summons set individually. So there isn't a point buy system for "pick uour pet" just as there isn't a point buy system for "pick your power".
It is a matter of testing as a songle pet set and a 'many' pet set need to provide relative performance. A single pet could prove too strong and too 'many' pets could get pasted too frequently. As we need all options to be viable at all levels and types of play.
Either way it is our hope to allow for a wide range of customization to summons sets. And it should go without saying but "nothing is set in stone" in this regard yet.

Wonderful! I can live with that.
How do you feel about the Tier system?
Tier one is the starter set and you get standard minions. You are stuck with the set you start off with. say Blasters in this case.

when your level gets high enough to pick the Lts, you buy Tier two. Ninjas in this case. Both will be from the same power set.

at Tier thee, you again buy a single boss, from another power set but get only one.

---no point buy at all---

is that possible?
Its keeps each tier tied to a single power set.

Cyclops
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and just so ya know, I'm

and just so ya know, I'm going to play an Operator no matter how you build it. cause they are like way cool.

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

I'm tempted to advance a "conservation of Ninjutsu" system as a counterproposal

Conservation of Ninjitsu ... or the Inverse Ninja Law ... works beautifully in movies. It even does pretty well in novelizations, manga and doujinshi.

It absolutely sucks in a MMORPG. I mean that in a Runs Totally Counter To The Purpose kind of way for how games are supposed to work ... and why.

That's why in City of Heroes, if you wanted to demonstrate the Conservation of Ninjitsu, you didn't play as a Mastermind ... instead you played as a Stalker.

As a trope of storytelling and fight scene coreography, it woks beautifully in movies. That's because in a "fixed" medium like a movie (or a novel) there isn't an interactive element. You don't have to make head fakes in the direction of Game Balance. In a MMORPG, the Conservation of Ninjitsu just doesn't balance for a Pet Summoner class ... because the "strongest" configuration is ipso facto the Petless Mastermind, which again makes no sense for an enduring bit of gameplay design.


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Cyclops]
Cyclops]
How do you feel about the Tier system?
quote]
[quote=Lin Chiao Feng
wrote:

If power set progressions could work like skill trees, this would be more manageable. You still wouldn't have a point buy system, but you could have more than one track.

While possible to design that way we are using the tiered system like the old game. For one, a multiple path "skill tree" set comes with one huge problem: design time. If you keep the number of powers fairly limited in total number its more possible but you trade off a lot of flexiblty possible through larger numbered tiered systems. You also have to test every possible permutation within each set which adds to the testing phase of development,

It is also familiar to those yearning tpformthe familiarity of the old game. Using a tiered system allows for us to use a base framework for power set design that can help speed the process of design to create new sets. Something that is very useful for a rather small dev team (as MMO development goes) of volunteers.


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Cyclops
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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Cyclops]
How do you feel about the Tier system?<br />
quote]
[quote=Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
If power set progressions could work like skill trees, this would be more manageable. You still wouldn't have a point buy system, but you could have more than one track.

While possible to design that way we are using the tiered system like the old game. For one, a multiple path "skill tree" set comes with one huge problem: design time. If you keep the number of powers fairly limited in total number its more possible but you trade off a lot of flexiblty possible through larger numbered tiered systems. You also have to test every possible permutation within each set which adds to the testing phase of development,
It is also familiar to those yearning tpformthe familiarity of the old game. Using a tiered system allows for us to use a base framework for power set design that can help speed the process of design to create new sets. Something that is very useful for a rather small dev team (as MMO development goes) of volunteers.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for explaining that,

so it is still possible to have ranged, melee ranged as long as that is the way it was set up and tested in the first place. Thanks.

PS, I appreciate your explanations to uppity types like me. Thanks again

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

One of my white board lists for designing Summons Sets does indeed have sets with varying numbers of pets from 1 to well, I can't get into ratios but let's leave it at more than the old game.
Now do to hownthe underlying system for powe set designs will be done this won't be possible for each Summons set individually. So there isn't a point buy system for "pick uour pet" just as there isn't a point buy system for "pick your power".
It is a matter of testing as a songle pet set and a 'many' pet set need to provide relative performance. A single pet could prove too strong and too 'many' pets could get pasted too frequently. As we need all options to be viable at all levels and types of play.
Either way it is our hope to allow for a wide range of customization to summons sets. And it should go without saying but "nothing is set in stone" in this regard yet.

Can you pick number of pets for (in CoH terms) a tier, say, tier 1? Like 3 or 4 or 5 or 2? They would scale strength and toughness based on numbers? Is this at char creation/power pick time, or dynamic at activate time (like pick then, depending on situation?)

Also, a way to get around easily-pasted larger numbers of popcorn might be to lower recast time based on number. This is another option in balancing besides altering offensive and defensive formulae based on N.

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The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.

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Keep in mind part of MM

Keep in mind part of MM gameplay is knowing when to tell your pets to heel (or run to a spot on the ground you think is safe, the goto command) when a big strike is coming.

__________________

The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.

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How about a point system for

How about a point system for pets rather than a 3 tier 1, 2 tier 2, 1 biggn, +/- special one.

E.g: 30 points total.
"small": 3 points
"medium": 5 points
"large": 10 points

Special for 1 point maybe (think gang war).

So you could have: 3 Sm, 2 md, 1 lg = 29 points, 1 extra .
Or: 3 lg
Or: 10 smalls
Or: 30 gang war-esque pets.

This could be run-time, were it costs points to hold any number at once, E.g.: my "large" dies and I can summon 2 "mediums" in place if it seems appropriate.
Or, it could be set where you'd set up a layout and you'd have to go to a trainer or something to change it.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Special for 1 point maybe (think mascot).

Fixed it for you. ^_~


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Ha! That would be kinda fun,

Ha! That would be kinda fun, cosmetic pets or such.

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

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I've often wished for a MM

I've often wished for a MM that broke the mold. Why not have an 'Elemental' kind with 4-5 pets instead of 6? More options are usually more fun

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...