I used to talk about CoH with friends that didn't play and they would always ask me to break down ATs as they related to their favorite comic book or movie character. There are times when a character doesn't fit well into a particular AT because of their powers or how their powers were used. Some sets (like Healing) were not often represented in the comics either.
I'm going to try and accumulate a list of ATs (from CoH as the CoT titles aren't etched in stone yet) and give examples of them through popular comic book or movie characters. The obvious ones will be easiest but I'm looking for some tough ones too.
Tank: Anyone who could take a hit from The Hulk to The Thing to Colossus.
Blaster: Cyclops is the icon here
Controller: I put the Human Torch here instead of under Blasters because he would often use his powers to create barriers rather than directly blasting something. Man character that could blast might go here instead if their powers included manipulating energy.
Scrapper: Luke Cage and Spider Man fit well here IMHO.
Defender: A tougher AT. Invisible Woman was an easy one but not as many of these represented.
Now name a character and what AT they would be.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
The Hulk is the Iconic Brute. Strong and powerful he also got stronger with his Rage. The whole Brute class was modeled off of him!
A tough one is a Master mind. However thinking of it I would say Doctor Octopus and here's why. Doc's main threat comes from his Robotic Arms, at first his body was weak he was the typical Nerdish, physically weak type. When he got the Arms he became more powerful from them. Heck going by the Spiderman 2 they even have personalities and AI. They are his damage dealing as well as defence. The only difference to him and our Masterminds are that they are connected to his body (buff range) and he had four not the max of six.
-------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
If Hulk is the iconic brute, it seems that Raven must be the iconic dark-dark defender... until I think about it and decide her astral projection is more controllery. Darkness Control/Empathy or Darkness Control/Dark Affinity Controller.
Defender: Jean Grey
Controller: Emma Frost
Tanker: Captain America (especially in the recent movies)
Mastermind: [b]THE DOCTOR[/b] in Doctor Who ... [i]think about it[/i] ...
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I get confused... Whats the criteria for a character to be considered a Defender versus a Controller?
Is it the strength of Controlling objects/people? or is it the Barriers that make him/her a Defender?
What are the criteria's for Each?
Defenders have blasts, controllers have crowd control. Both have buffs.
Batman is a blaster, as is Iron Man.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Not sure I agree with this one. If you're trying to shoehorn Batman into City of Heroes archetypes, I'd prefer to say that he's a Stalker than figure he's a Blapper.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Misquote!
Ehh, he is more melee-based. But the gadgets! Maybe Martial Arts/Reflexes stalker is more appropriate.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Make a new primary called Tricks that combines throws with tools like ropes, smoke, oil slicks. The tier 9 pet is obviously a kid sidekick. Tricks/Martial Assault Dominator.
I thought batman was a street justice/ninjitsu stalker.....
At any rate Black canary is definatly a blapper
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Street Justice/Ninjitsu works better as a Stalker for Batman. You're right.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
+1
I'd disagree and make her a Martial Arts Scrapper with a Sonic special attack.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Black canary uses both melee and ranged attacks in melee range, that a sure sign of a blapper. She'd be a sonic/martial combat blaster with the new version of fighting we where going to get before the game wen't under and her ability to dodge and resist melee attacks would be represented by reaction time, inner will and both of the armour powers from the fighting pool.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Maybe The Penguin as a Thugs Mastermind?
With great power, comes the need for great heat sinks
My problem with this line of thinking is it's easy to take the archetypes we have, and find characters who fit them, What I'd prefer to look at is the possibility of introducing new options to adapt characters who don't fit our current archetypes e.g. Luke Skywalker, or Sir Galahad (I like the Paladin class from Dungeons & Dragons but there was nothing like that in COH)
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Depending on how you wanted to go with Luke Skywalker, Katana/MR Scrapper or Grav/FF Controller. Sir Galahad BS/SD Scrapper.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
Wow. Street Justice/Ninjitsu Stalker. That sounds frickin sexy. I'd go roll one of those right now if CoH were still around :(.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
X-Men:
Wolverine - Claws/Regen Scrapper (duh)
Storm - Storm/Electric Defender
Cyclops - Energy/Energy Blaster
Rogue - Inv/SS Tanker
Colossus - Inv/SS Tanker
Gambit - Staff/SR Scrapper
Jean Grey - Mind/FF Controller
Ice Man - Ice/Ice Blaster
Beast - Claws/SR Scrapper
Banshee - Son/Son Defender
Nightcrawler - MA/SR Scrapper
Angel - MA/SR Scrapper
Of course there are still many more X-Men to go on. LOL.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
I Don't know what MR stands for and I've never seen Luke Skywalker use a Force Field.
Actually the thing that makes these characters both not work is that they each have abilities from more than one COH class.
Luke would be a combination scrapper and controller, while Galahad would be as you said but he would also have healing and possibly an ability to ward off (maybe banish) evil spirits.
You could say that means we have choices about how to interpret the character, but the truth is, every choice is going to come up short.
The only solution is for the devs to either allow you to take abilities from more than one class (perhaps change your class like you do in Dungeons & Dragons or perhaps take the the way you took pool powers in COH) or you could introduce a new power set or even a new class. Something that represents a different type of character.
Or you could just ignore the problem and say that kind of character doesn't work. Get used to it.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Sorry, meant SR for Super Reflexes.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
Yeah, too much customization for characters would just lead into a whole mess we really don't want to get into. You basically have to either shoe horn in the character to something that is as close as you can get it, or just not deal with it.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
Total freedom would be cool if it were workable, but I ended up with a lot of Heroes that I really loved in CoH, and part of how their powers and stories took shape was working within the limitations of the system. Limitations can be a pain, but they can also spur creativity.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Hmmmm...
You want a Tankish Mage?
And a FreeForm system?
Luke really only used one controller power...which in game terms would be similar to a stun, possibly a confuse. Katana and ninjitsu would work fairly well.
I would personally not like a freeform system....its too hard to balance properly resulting in many many power changes by the devs. If you want a more open system then I would think some generic powers that fall outside of AT could be made for Power Pools. In CoH you had leadership and Fighting pools...why not a controller pool or a blaster pool....couple this with the power customization that CoT is promising you could make some very interesting character to fit most concepts without it being a nightmare to keep in check.
total freedom is totally doable. What it might do is have gimp builds and strong builds with most players picking the strong build. Which happens no matter what you do. CoH was no stranger to the fotm builds. Though I thought a good way around such things was a more diverse/fleshed out Epic Pool. Scrapper Energy Epic Pool could have used multiple power skins for Eye Beams for instance. I'm sure many would have loved a MA/SR scrapper with an energy blast that came from the fists, or a sonic style scream or eye beams that looked more like Cyclops eye blast, than Supermans.
Alternate animations would have helped fleshed out concepts much more. Ways to determine their effectiveness in different areas and animation would be great. Also, don't have them be weak like the CoH ones where.
Black Canary is a MA/SR Scrapper with Sonic Blast Epic Pool.
The real problem when it comes to SR though, is in CoH, it was equal to all concepts. Really though, Black Canary SR would be weak compared to Spider-Man's SR, but one could say BC just didn't use IOs, while Spidey IO'ed out to hit defense soft cap. :p
I assume you're talking about the "Jedi mind trick" but he also used Telekinesis
I'm not sure why people have a problem with Flavor of the Month builds heck I used to make new toons all the time and extra character slots was something I racked up on my favorite server.
As for "Total Freedom" I'm not sure why it has to be a problem. If some builds are too weak people will probably stop using them, and even powerful builds get old, especially when everyone is doing the same thing. (I guess pvp ruins it for us all yet again) but there are other options that have been suggested short of total freedom like expanding the pool powers available. And allowing people to switch classes as they advance. So a 10th level toon could be a 7th level scrapper with 3 levels of controler thrown in. This would make him more diverse and interesting but less powerful, and the person choosing to multi-class would know the trade off going in so if he complained we could just remind him of that.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
I would rather not have a freeform system. It will just end up having "Right build" and "Wrong build" situations where you won't get invited to a party at all if you aren't the "right build" for that update. Understandably there will be a limited degree of this no matter what, but I can tell you I NEVER had to choose the "Right build" to play anything in City of Heroes. I played what I wanted to play and enjoyed it and never had a team tell me I was built wrong. As long as you're the AT they were looking for (which also didn't even come up in most situations if you knew how to play your character).
The only way I could see giving a little wiggle room with that is giving the ability to choose 1 tier 6(for example) ability from another power set when you reach level 50 or something. That way you could have a Luke Skywalker build with Katana/SR and Telekinesis. It would give more customization, while having very specific criteria to choose from. The developers could then develop all tier 6 powers to be slightly more balanced with this in mind.
But it's just a thought.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Free Form builds did nothing different than CoH AT builds. Even in CoH with it's build systems there were "best builds"
Best for a purpose, sure. But even then there were differences in point of view and cost threshold.
For example, I saw farming builds that had no travel powers or taunt. They were specialists that moved between Freedom's Atlas Park AE and WW. They could easily handle 4x8 farms quickly. My farming toon was a bit more of a generalist. She had the super speed super jump package with a taunt. She could do all the game's content with the cost of making 4x8 farms a slog to the point where I preferred to do 3x8 farms.
In other words, best builds existed but once you chose to generalize them to experience more of the game's content, well they weren't best builds anymore.
Ahhh... i loved my Dark Melee / Fiery Aura brute for such things. ;D ([url=http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1448&c=648&a=1296&f=HEX&dc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ids Build[/url]. Might be an older build. :[ )
There were still general OMG builds. Things like ELM/Shield or SS/Shield.