Twitch Upcoming!

We're delaying our Twitch till AFTER a very specific KS update. You'll know what one, we'll talk about the twitch in the update. We need all hands to get this one ready.
Which still means something good is coming.
https://www.twitch.tv/missingworldsmedia

Rotty's stream ended.
Check him out at right here

Discuss: When Fist Meets Face - Momentum

127 posts / 0 new
Last post
Terlin
Terlin's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 05:00
cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

Actually CoH did allow you to see what buffs your party members were under.
The Team Window had an arrow icon that you could expand/collapse and would show all buffs/debuffs affecting each person inc how many of each buff.
With a large team full of Support powers I could get quite large and take up a lot of screen real estate :)
Here is an image I found from Google: http://check.animeblogger.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/coh-screenshot-2007-12-03-00-24-22.jpg Look a number 6 (even though this is the Pet window its the same look.

I remember that. Kept having to switch it on and off to see, especially in TFs.

FYI, your link took me to a 404 page not found error.

The Bullpen

LeadWanderer
LeadWanderer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/13/2013 - 22:41
:( So we can't use our

:( So we can't use our momentum for momentum at the right moment?

"When all the world is dark, look for me, I'll be your light."

Follow me @SequentialRTim

Read Bleeding Edges!

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 51 sec ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
LeadWanderer wrote:
LeadWanderer wrote:

:( So we can't use our momentum for momentum at the right moment?

Lead, I think you're taking the name too literally. It's not a representation of actual physical momentum, it's metaphorical.

And, I was thinking, if it's going to be used for/through Masteries, maybe just call it the Mastery Bar to avoid confusion? Just a thought.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

LeadWanderer
LeadWanderer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/13/2013 - 22:41
I was being silly, making an

I was being silly, making an alliterative pun, I definitely understood the metaphor, but I still this moving would be a fantastic way to build or use momentum. I do mean a little bit of the flash super sonic punch thing, but I also think people who enjoy the jumping, dashing and darting around the map.

"When all the world is dark, look for me, I'll be your light."

Follow me @SequentialRTim

Read Bleeding Edges!

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Online
Last seen: 14 min 31 sec ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Separate functions reslly.

Separate functions really. Momentum wont just be used for mastery powers but power sets as well hence why its not the mastery bar. Powers with lunge mechanics supply the dart about and attack function. Or animations can simulate the effect like a ranged attack appearing to have your character super speed to the target punch'em and dart back to your starting position.

Imagine now that simply running or twtiching from side to side or hopping built up effects of masteries and power sets meanwhile one of the effects of momentum is that as youre travelling from one encounter to the next momentum cools down filli g hour reserves. One can lead to wierd twitchy play and counters one of the intended effects'


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
LeadWanderer
LeadWanderer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/13/2013 - 22:41
I can see how either of those

I can see how either of those mechanics would be a problem, but think of the scenario where you're across the map while your team is getting wiped. You're running and get there in time but technically they're too far gone for you running up or flying, or what have, to be helpful. I was thinking more along the lines of a high or mid level move that, while moving at above a certain speed you convert physical momentum into momentum and an attack.

Plenty of examples of this, Teleportation could be a surprise attack, Super speed and Flight a fast/flying kick/punch. Super Jumping could be a I dunno, jump stomping? SJ wasn't big for me. There could be balancing mechanics to this, reducing someones max momentum for awhile, or a huge cool down, or a huge debuff to your momentum gain rates.

"When all the world is dark, look for me, I'll be your light."

Follow me @SequentialRTim

Read Bleeding Edges!

Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

With a large team full of Support powers I could get quite large and take up a lot of screen real estate :)

Yep... thats why i'm asking people to think up ways around that. ;)

One would be the Top 5 Status Effects.. Stat Bars... If your power buffs Defense, then Defense goes up a few points, and might even bubble Up to the Top 5 and be visible to all on team. And if a Status Effect never gets buffed (it was never one of the last 5 Buffed) it does not Show it. :{

Of course All Status Effect Buff Bars are color coated to make it easy to identify... But if your not sure, just mouse Over and it will Display the Status Effect type and the Precise Numbers to you. :)

Also, the bars color can tint a little lighter (make it semi-translucent, but not too translucent) to make it seem like its not taking up screen real estate.

thormaeb
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 18:53
So, could momentum work sort

So, could momentum work sort of opposite from the typical "build up to some epic move" such as for the Ranger mastery "Bombardment"?

"Bombardment: You can front-load attacks for damage" So perhaps this mastery builds momentum out of combat, using up momentum at the start of combat for a huge "surprise attack" strategy.

Ravynwynd
Ravynwynd's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: 11/06/2013 - 14:13
I APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE!!

I APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE!!

I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Online
Last seen: 14 min 31 sec ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
LeadWanderer wrote:
LeadWanderer wrote:

I can see how either of those mechanics would be a problem, but think of the scenario where you're across the map while your team is getting wiped. You're running and get there in time but technically they're too far gone for you running up or flying, or what have, to be helpful. I was thinking more along the lines of a high or mid level move that, while moving at above a certain speed you convert physical momentum into momentum and an attack.
Plenty of examples of this, Teleportation could be a surprise attack, Super speed and Flight a fast/flying kick/punch. Super Jumping could be a I dunno, jump stomping? SJ wasn't big for me. There could be balancing mechanics to this, reducing someones max momentum for awhile, or a huge cool down, or a huge debuff to your momentum gain rates.

I understand what you are saying, and the Momentum meter has nothing to do with what you are describing. The engine can track movement and velocity, and we could create say a movement based Tertiary attack set that required movement as a trigger for effects, or an effect that triggered movement. Barring large outdoor zones, the "momentum" you're describing would not necessarily be consistent and make something really thematically work as you're describing of limited use as in, track avatar movement velocity, including teleportation distance, when x velocity / distance is met, unlock power "_".

To make it something that is not relegated to open world maps, the velocity / distance pieces of the equation would have to be set where it isn't entirely situational on a regular basis, otherwise most people would relegate the power to "don't bother" status, even if the final effect is really good because it's too situational. And if its set to where it can be done indoors equally be all powers, well then there probably isn't much need to set a movement attack power restricted by movement at a certain speed / distance as a requirement.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Ktzza
Ktzza's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 09/17/2013 - 19:14
This is really cool. I love

This is really cool. I love the open, adaptable concept of momentum. One thought I had is that a power that directly affects a target's momentum bar would violate the "momentum represents whatever the player imagines it does" idea. It's as ridiculous as the idea of a Universal Power Nullification Device that equally nullifies magic, psychic powers, kung fu, enhanced cellular metabolism, a really cool gun, and divine blood.

Instead, manipulating an enemy's momentum should be an indirect, intelligent tactic, requiring observation of the target, to learn how they gain and use momentum, and then applying control powers/changing tactics to suit. Every unique enemy would need a unique approach, instead of just spamming Momentum Transfer.

Firefly of Phoenix Rising

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 51 sec ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Ktzza wrote:
Ktzza wrote:

Instead, manipulating an enemy's momentum should be an indirect, intelligent tactic, requiring observation of the target, to learn how they gain and use momentum, and then applying control powers/changing tactics to suit. Every unique enemy would need a unique approach, instead of just spamming Momentum Transfer.

+++1 I strongly agree with this point.

It not only would make combat (and maybe even PVP) more exciting, strategic, and complex in a way that is NOT twitchy, but it would make soft and hard controls and many debuffs even more important in the game, which is WIN!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Shadow Elusive
Shadow Elusive's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 11 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/10/2013 - 09:38
A good point. The prominence

A good point. The prominence and effectiveness of controls and debuffs is part of what made CoH different after all. Since holds directly affect the enemy's ability to build momentum (and if you're not building it, you're losing it) and the right debuffs help the team's damage outrace the momentum bar, momentum does indeed add new levels of effectiveness and strategy to these sets. It is possible for a controller to save the day by using the right hold in time to stop the boss from reaching critical momentum and unleashing hell.

--------------------------

Community Manager
DeathSheepFromHell
DeathSheepFromHell's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 2 weeks ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 15:08
Ktzza wrote:
Ktzza wrote:

This is really cool. I love the open, adaptable concept of momentum. One thought I had is that a power that directly affects a target's momentum bar would violate the "momentum represents whatever the player imagines it does" idea. It's as ridiculous as the idea of a Universal Power Nullification Device that equally nullifies magic, psychic powers, kung fu, enhanced cellular metabolism, a really cool gun, and divine blood.
Instead, manipulating an enemy's momentum should be an indirect, intelligent tactic, requiring observation of the target, to learn how they gain and use momentum, and then applying control powers/changing tactics to suit. Every unique enemy would need a unique approach, instead of just spamming Momentum Transfer.

Speaking as a former Kin/Sonic, trying to suppress much on a big baddie generally wasn't worth the effort; they always had enough energy left to do whatever. And bear in mind that a mix of baddies that just reflected standard PC classes would probably have several where stealing momentum would result in them laughing at you for wasting your time.

As for thematically, I trust that players will find a way to work it into their cosmology. They never seemed to have a problem with the fact that you could steal 'energy', whether that was electricity, biochemical, necromantic, or was fueled by unobtainium, after all.


Developer Emeritus
and multipurpose sheep

Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
Like this?

Like this?


Zoomed in 200%

or


Zoomed in 200%

Maybe even have a user adjustable Slider in options? So they can remove or add more Translucency.

And we can very fancy with what gets Tinter and what does.. and by which Color too, in the Shader.
(example of the Stylish Text Shader im working on shows this a little: http://youtu.be/5vS0YsmEZS4?t=23m33s)

cybermitheral
cybermitheral's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 15 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/21/2013 - 20:54
Terlin wrote:
Terlin wrote:

cybermitheral wrote:
Actually CoH did allow you to see what buffs your party members were under.
The Team Window had an arrow icon that you could expand/collapse and would show all buffs/debuffs affecting each person inc how many of each buff.
With a large team full of Support powers I could get quite large and take up a lot of screen real estate :)
Here is an image I found from Google: http://check.animeblogger.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/coh-screenshot-2007-12-03-00-24-22.jpg Look a number 6 (even though this is the Pet window its the same look.

I remember that. Kept having to switch it on and off to see, especially in TFs.
FYI, your link took me to a 404 page not found error.

I got the 404 error as well just then. I hit F5 and it then worked???

Izzy its probably best if you raise a new Thread in the Suggestions forum about better ways to show teammate buff/debuffs instead of discussing it here.

The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer

Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

Izzy its probably best if you raise a new Thread in the Suggestions forum about better ways to show teammate buff/debuffs instead of discussing it here.

But I'm lazy. :(

Fine: new thread HERE. ;)

Pyromantic
Pyromantic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 8 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 08:20
One of the ideas I like in

One of the ideas I like in here is having big baddies able to spend momentum in order to break free of control effects. This would mean that control effects aren't so much relegated to all-or-nothing status, since the control can limit the enemy's options (by reducing their available momentum to do other things) without turning the fight into auto-win.

Comicsluvr
Comicsluvr's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/07/2013 - 03:39
I'm very encouraged by this.

I'm very encouraged by this. If I'm reading it right then I could potentially play the same character versus the same opponent two very different ways. Say DoT doesn't add much Momentum but the fast-recharging powers do (as an example). If I'm running my Flame Guy and I prefer DoT and Villain X wipes the floor with me I could switch some things on my power bar, use more of the Momentum-building powers and it might turn out differently.

I like this idea. Change of tactics to suit the situation. You can also use it as special effects for some villains or even for set-piece scenarios. Like you have a big Boss called Inertia or whatever who builds Momentum slower than normal but never loses it. Now you HAVE to take him down fast or he'll be unstoppable. Or a special serum you get injected with at a lab for a story arc that starts you off with 10% Momentum instead of 0 but you burn End faster or something.

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 51 sec ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
I like everything that's

I like everything that's being said and I think that Momentum has great potential to be both highly useful tool for the devs and a fun combat and build dynamic for the players. I do have one concern and think that there's one potential danger here, and I want to reiterate my concern just to make myself feel better :P.

The one danger I see is Momentum becoming the dominant combat mechanic. Momentum will be great as long as it doesn't overly dominate and stays just one balanced factor in the mix. If it overly dominates, it will make combat feel very different from CoH, and could make combat very boring in the form of mostly watching your and your opponent's Momentum bar.

One of the things I loved about CoH combat that I miss in other games is that it was simple enough--managed by the game itself enough--that I could actually watch the action rather than constantly monitor the HUD. AND the action was epic, so it was just a blast. Almost more like a "choreograph your own Superhero movie" than the either "control every twitch" or "constantly monitor your and your opponent's HUD" combat that you often see.

As I said, as an added factor to give the devs more balancing power and to make the overall ebb and flow of combat more dynamic, Momentum definitely has great potential. I just wouldn't want combat to become largely "Momentum management".

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Gangrel
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/15/2013 - 15:14
Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

One of the things I loved about CoH combat that I miss in other games is that it was simple enough--managed by the game itself enough--that I could actually watch the action rather than constantly monitor the HUD. AND the action was epic, so it was just a blast. Almost more like a "choreograph your own Superhero movie" than the either "control every twitch" or "constantly monitor your and your opponent's HUD" combat that you often see.
As I said, as an added factor to give the devs more balancing power and to make the overall ebb and flow of combat more dynamic, Momentum definitely has great potential. I just wouldn't want combat to become largely "Momentum management".

I find that I can now do that with Wildstar in "normal" gameplay situations. In raids/dungeons though I do have to pay full attention to what I am doing; for understandable reasons. Infact, I rarely pay attention to what is on my (or my targets) hud. I have my rotation down so tight, I am able to do them whilst holding a conversation over TS with someone (requires holding down a key) and watching a film at the same time.

But that is something that develops over time. When I started with CoX, I was having to pay attention to everything, but as I progressed, I had to spend less and less time actually watching it.

So whilst people say "it was so easy to play, you didn't need to pay attention", I think that is because they are also coming from the years of experience that they have playing the game.

For a 100% new player though, they could have a totally different experience. I sure as hell don't expect a new player to play as I do in Wildstar, with the number of "distractions" that I have going on at the same time.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Online
Last seen: 14 min 31 sec ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

I like everything that's being said and I think that Momentum has great potential to be both highly useful tool for the devs and a fun combat and build dynamic for the players. I do have one concern and think that there's one potential danger here, and I want to reiterate my concern just to make myself feel better :P.
The one danger I see is Momentum becoming the dominant combat mechanic. Momentum will be great as long as it doesn't overly dominate and stays just one balanced factor in the mix. If it overly dominates, it will make combat feel very different from CoH, and could make combat very boring in the form of mostly watching your and your opponent's Momentum bar.
One of the things I loved about CoH combat that I miss in other games is that it was simple enough--managed by the game itself enough--that I could actually watch the action rather than constantly monitor the HUD. AND the action was epic, so it was just a blast. Almost more like a "choreograph your own Superhero movie" than the either "control every twitch" or "constantly monitor your and your opponent's HUD" combat that you often see.
As I said, as an added factor to give the devs more balancing power and to make the overall ebb and flow of combat more dynamic, Momentum definitely has great potential. I just wouldn't want combat to become largely "Momentum management".

I don't know if this will alleviate your concerns, but not every Mastery or Power Set will utilize Momentum. In some cases for the character use its could be more distracting from combat than how many "stacks of X" did I generate with my power set that uses "stack of X".

On the facing your opponent side of the equation, with NPCs it can be a difference of the Big Boss does his massive AoE attack at 25% health, now it could be Big Boss does his attack at 75% Momentum.
It also gives us another tool for NPC attack rotations. It doesn't have to be a big massive attack that occurs once, using Momentum as a threshold to unlock a new attack that gets added to the rotation. And it doesn't have to be every spawn that does this either. Its flexible that way.

It is a departure from CoH game play, one we feel moves us forward. In many ways its simply a conversion from familar mechanics like the stacks of things. Take an example of two inherent powers from CoH, Fury from Brutes and Defiance from Blasters. Fury was a meter that provided additional damage bonus as it built, Defiance supplied stacks of damage as attacks were used. The Momentum Meter can be used for both mechanics in this game, each using Momentum slightly differently.

Or an example of power sets, Pack Mentality from Beast Mastery added stacks of damage, or *cough* Momentum from Titan Weapons. Both would use the momentum meter to apply their effects.

Playing with these inherents or power sets didn't require "stack management" per se - Fury asside because it built and degraded so quickly - and that would be a specific thing as part of a Mastery.

Again, it works a central mechanic to use for design around using it multiple ways to do multiple things. Not every Mastery will use it, and not every power set will use it.

NPCs will be design to utilize it in different ways.

The over-all goal is to have combat feel a bit more dynamic as things occur and may change "naturally" through the course of combat.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 51 sec ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

I don't know if this will alleviate your concerns, but

Actually, that does help alleviate my concerns by helping me have a better understanding of how you think of it.

There were both AT's and Powersets in CoH that used some kind of "building up" type of mechanic--Brutes, Blasters, Titan Weapons, etc.--and this was becoming more and more common--meaning it was a natural evolution of the game. So, now there's just one central meter that can be used as desired for any of these things. Sweet.

And, while other markers can still be used to set off certain behavior from a NPC--losing a certain percentage of HP, etc.--this meter can be used as an additional independent trigger to make behavior less predictable and more unique to each individual encounter, making content much more repayable and fun. Again, sweet.

Concerns... fading... excitement... building... want... NAOWAH!!!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

cybermitheral
cybermitheral's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 15 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/21/2013 - 20:54
Im really happy that this

Im really happy that this will allow Big Boss Fights to change dynamically compared to the last 5 times I've done it. Each time the Boss appears the game randomises which Momentum Mechanic to use (if at all). No more "Have to watch a Youtube video 5 times to memorise the boss fight/raid progression otherwise fail" BS and by the same token each fight has a chance to be different from the last attempt, so even if after 5 years of doing the ITF I still wont know what the Big Boss will do and when until Im fighting it.

The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer

DeathSheepFromHell
DeathSheepFromHell's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 2 weeks ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 15:08
Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

So whilst people say "it was so easy to play, you didn't need to pay attention", I think that is because they are also coming from the years of experience that they have playing the game.

Frankly, while there is *some* degree of that, CoH/CoV also had some very deliberate choices made that did fairly significantly impact (and generally limit) the amount that you had to be paying attention to just in order to survive and be useful.

Folks who wanted to play highly tactical characters had the option, which was good, but there was also plenty of room for folks who preferred to stand back and either fling controls and/or healing, or folks who preferred to be more howitzer than glass cannon.

As a very minimal example, consider that in Champions, a "root" is considered a sufficient disadvantage that it is used as a crock on almost all of the most powerful attacks in the game (or at least the things designed to be so) -- they generally have long charge times that prevent you from moving while you do, which make you a sitting duck unless you learn how to time the enemy's rotation, or similar techniques.

This matters because Champions uses tactical positioning as a core mechanic, meaning that *everyone* is expected to be moving around, throughout the battle. Having polled a variety of folks, there is most certainly a group for whom that makes combat completely unenjoyable, because it plays to 'twitch' skills that they simply do not have, or have any desire to develop.

By comparison, if your tank in CoH was worth the name, they could not only hold aggro, but have enough tactical awareness and knowledge of the nastier boss attacks that when facing a boss who would throw a cone that might splat half the field, they could get the boss consistently turned one direction and *held* that direction, so the folks who needed to not be exposed to that risk could plunk themselves down on the other side, once, and not have to move barring a severe aggro management failure or other semi-catastrophic failure.

By the same token, most (all?) attacks in CoH/CoV rooted you for their animation time, which meant that there wasn't a major disadvantage for folks who were not capable of taking advantage of that.

So yes, some of it was experience, but there were also some fairly profound (if not always terribly obvious if you weren't looking for them) choices made about how combat worked that did, in fact, make it qualitatively different from a lot of other MMOs.


Developer Emeritus
and multipurpose sheep

Capt Odee
Capt Odee's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 7 hours ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/16/2013 - 09:34
Momentum. Rage. Insight.

Momentum. Rage. Insight. Second Sight... By any name it is the same ability, or trait, that pushes the pendulum from defeat to victory. Will the savvy, or cautious player keep it building until they are truly in need of that special edge, or squander it as the Momentum starts filling? Only you, the player will decide.

I, for one, would like to see how this would apply to a tech/weapons skill set. Could it be used to "overcharge" your weapon for that critical damage needed to win the melee weapon fight? Perhaps it will mean more focus to your aim, when faced with an impossible shot?

Regardless, it will be interesting to see how Momentum unfolds.

Capt Odee, saving the city one click at a time.

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 13 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
All this talk of Momentum and

All this talk of Momentum and AoEs (most recently in the Rolling 20s interview - protip: Warcabbit is on for the final hour of the show) made me realize that Momentum could also make AoEs smaller (e.g. from 360° to a cone) or, which is likely more to the point (no pun intended), remove them. After all, when fighting a single, tough enemy AoE attacks are more likely to contribute to global warming than they are to markedly increase the character's damage. With sufficient Momentum the character could concentrate all their energy onto a single target.

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

... made me realize that Momentum could also make AoEs smaller (e.g. from 360° to a cone) ... After all, when fighting a single, tough enemy AoE attacks are more likely to contribute to global warming than they are to markedly increase the character's damage. ...

I'm guessing the less people on team, single target damage would increase?
And the More people on team, the lesser damage done on single targets?
For balance Sake? :)

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 51 sec ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Hmm, I like this idea, and it

Hmm, I like this idea, and it works both ways. It'd be awesome to be able turn a cone into 180 into a full 360 AOE as well as to be able to concentrate an AOE into a big single target attack. The problem--as Izzy pointed out--is what are the parameters?

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 13 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
I must be missing something.

I must be missing something. Why would being on a team require the character to be weaker?

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

I must be missing something. Why would being on a team require the character to be weaker?

Hmm.. I thought a person doing AoE had to have its Max Damage set higher than its set for a Single Target attack? Plus, AoE always took longer to recharge because of the Higher max damage?

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 13 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
Well, sure, but that's a

Well, sure, but that's a question of balancing the powers when they are under the influence of Momentum. Declaring that certain Class/Specs/Masteries should be stronger or weaker depending on whether the character is on a team or not is an extreme solution to a (I presume) simple problem.

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Lutan
Lutan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 5 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 02/02/2014 - 15:08
As far as I understood it so

As far as I understood it so far you would more easily gain momentum when fighting more foes at once, because you get momentum for every time you hit a target or got hit by an enemy. Having low momentum would mean you'd be fighting either one foe at a time or using hit and run tactics.

Hence I would prefer some AoE's to increase in size as momentum grows, not shrinking.

But for some power sets it might make sense. It could be used to compensate if a certain set as difficulties to gain momentum in the earlier stages of combat.

Plexius
Plexius's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 22 hours ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 06/15/2014 - 04:58
No lie, I had a dream about

No lie, I had a dream about momentum this morning. I need to share it. Some of it was kinda abstract, so I'll skip the nonsense and recount my sensible interpretation of it.

Anyways, I dreamt that I was playing as a healer, and I had a power that placed a heal-over-time on an ally. It had a recharge time to match its duration, so it wasn't possible to keep it up on more than one ally at a time. I guess it must have lasted about 20 seconds or so.

However, things got serious when I pressed some other clickable to use my built-up momentum. It reduced the power's recharge time to just a couple seconds. At that point, I was able to spread green numbers all over the place, healing multiple allies and building up stacks of it. It's like I shifted into MAXIMUM HEAL0RZ OVERDRIVE™!!!

So...yeah. I'm thinking maybe this is the sort of thing that could happen when you "spend" your momentum. I realize that every power may be affected differently, but I think this sort of effect would be in the spirit of what momentum represents. Imagine if it could supercharge your armors or attacks. I can't wait to see it in action!

LeadWanderer
LeadWanderer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/13/2013 - 22:41
Yes. This would be epic. New

Yes. This would be epic. New effects would be a neat thing, plus that ability there to drastically reduce recharge time, though in theory there would be recharge reduction elsewhere in the game, hopefully. I did love hasten, in theory, but dunno, seemed like something anybody should be able to do, but some just do better? I mean everyone gets adrenaline rushes, as another way to look at it, so you speed up, you fight harder and faster, or whatever, for how your powers work.

Though still want the specific power too, sometimes I just don't want to have to take that to be able to hit "QUICKER QUICKER!" Panic button lol. Also would be great to customize the activation of such super states, feel like you're triggering transformations or something, and eventually maintaining them by building stocks and getting better at it? makes for an interesting dynamic having a character built around actually accumulating Momentum in their stores... Unless I misunderstood. Neat dream though!

"When all the world is dark, look for me, I'll be your light."

Follow me @SequentialRTim

Read Bleeding Edges!

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 1 hour ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
Sounds like a great Limit

Sounds like a great Limit Break style power.

Project Lead

Pages