I always enjoy realism when it comes to violence in games. I never mind gore but an excessive amount can seem cheesy to me. An excessive amount of gore kind of feels like a cheap way to sell people onto a game.
But since this is supposed to be a superhero MMORPG, a successor of CoH and I'm going to assume that the devs are shooting for a teen rating. There won't be much blood/gore.
I think there should at least be a little blood when you're fighting. Not every fight will end up in your hero just walking away as if nothing ever happened :p. But with that being said. I'm sure there will be parents that won't feel too comfortable with their kids playing a game that has blood in it. So why not make it an option to disable blood?
This obviously won't be a deal breaker for me if the devs decide to not implement any "gore" or blood into the game lol. But I'm just curious what everyone's thoughts are on this.
I really don't think blood is necessary. Despite "arresting" people with knives and fire, I think the original CoH was just fine in not showing blood or gore. Not sure it would add anything to the game, while it could affect the rating in a negative way. No reason to bother with it in my opinion.
The Target rating is T for teens. The main reason is that not all nations have the same rating system for games so if you add a little blood effect it would be T in America, but not somewhere else. To get as much wide base as possible (and not exclude any nation) following CoH example is the goal.
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
I agree with Inerdictor. I'm not against gore per se, but:
1) It wouldn't be any great enhancement to the game--I don't think anyone would be like "Blood! THAT'S what was missing in CoH"--and it WOULD limit the audience for the game. I literally raised my son on CoH and we played together till it shut down, and many others did the same with their kids. That wouldn't have happened on a rated M bloody mess, and probably not a a rated T.
2) The Secret World and Champions use a moderate amount of blood, but it doesn't look very good. And the gameplay footage of other rated M games that I've seen doesn't look much better. I think it must be hard to do well. If it were done at all I'd prefer it to be subtle, not spray and rivulets of blood. In classic comics, when they used blood it was usually tasteful, minimal, and for dramatic effect, not gratuitous.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Obviously CoT is trying to shoot for a T rating. Blood is labeled as a T-rated theme in games, while Blood and Gore is labeled as a M-rated theme. As RottenLuck pointed out, Blood may be labeled as M in other countries and thus would shrink the audience pool. One way to have blood, however, is to use Animated Blood. Animated Blood simply means either discolored or unrealistic depictions of blood, which can actually be done rather well when applied right. This can be done by causing red bursts of light, a shower of red "sparks," or animating a liquid that doesn't have the consistency of blood like red water.
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not really seeing the need for blood an gore in a superhero genre, as I am assuming we are shooting for a four-color comic based game here.
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
The assumption that all characters would have red blood is rather sketchy for this game. Insects' haemolymph is colourless. The haemocyanins of other arthropods and of mollusks are blue when oxygenated and colourless when not. Antarctic fish of the Channichthyidae family lack Haemoglobin and thus have colourless blood as well. Vulcan blood is green, Klingon blood the colour of strawberry yoghurt...
And these are just beings that [i] have[/i] blood (or in the case of haemolymph, something loosely comparable).,,
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Yeah I don't really need literal blood dripping from bodies in this game. As Xnarl mentioned half the things we'll fight in this type of superhero game probably won't have red-colored blood or blood at all so it just seems like it might be a needless complication to the animation process.
But I'm not against having other generic "battle indicators" which sort of imply blood and/or damage. Many MMOs now provide various "punch-drunk" type stun animations that represent taking lots of lethal damage or do things like fading out the screen's focus or reddening the borders of the screen when you're very close to death. Also another suggestion (which actually came up pretty often on the old CoH forum) would be to have various versions of "battle damage" on costumes. This could include rips or black scuff marks in clothing and/or capes to signify heavy damage instead of "blood".
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I want a Costume change effect that uses Multy layered material/shader to transition to another outfit.
ex: http://youtu.be/s4hpMlcqYmU?t=5s
I figure the ideal "holy grail" for this kind of thing would be for there to be multiple battle damaged versions of every single costume item in the game. This means that for every item there would be a "burned" version, a "ripped" version, a "dented" version, a "bullet-holed" version and so on. With all these versions available all the game would have to do is register what type of damage the character was taking and apply the right kind of damaged costume items that would match it. Of course to do this right it would probably take terabytes of artwork and man-years of development effort.
As a simplified version maybe the game could apply generic black "scuff marks" on random parts of the body. These scuff marks wouldn't have to be tied to any kind of specific damage type or body location. They could just be temporarily overlayed on top of any existing costume item and would vanish shortly after combat and/or regaining HPs.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I think this is probably the most feasible way of doing this if it is something that will be implemented. Keeps things simple yet interesting to show a character is getting beaten to a pulp.
As far as blood goes....not a fan of that idea at all....what I liked was how death and perm injury was left to story and not an all the time thing....had more impact to me that way.
Im not against battle damage overlays...but I am not sure what it adds to the game. It may seem like immersion at first but how is heal powers, inspirations or natural regen fixing a costume immersion. I think something like this is better left in the hands of the players with alternate damaged costumes. Sure I can come up with an explanation for why my costume heals but I can also come up with and explanation for why it does not get damaged in the first place. Again Im not against it...just not sure how much it will add to the game. Its prolly best to leave some things ambiguous if there are alternate ways the player can do it themselves (like alternate costumes).
To be clear even though people have been suggesting "costume battle damage" for years I never technically said I was totally in favor of the idea. I was merely offering one of many counter-suggestions for how something like it could be handled as a compromise solution.
I suspect that allowing for battle damaged outfits would probably make more sense in a classic FPS where you have "normal human" soldiers fighting other "normal human" soldiers. In that situation the damage types and targets for that damage are relatively limited.
But in a superhero setting you have an entire range of fantastic damage types which might be applied to anything from robots to energy beings to mutant ninja turtles. This is what I was trying to say when I said the only way you could do something like this "right" would be to have literally tons of extra artwork variations to cover all the possibilities (even the weird/alien blood types if you still wanted those). In essence I don't think this is going to happen in -any- game anytime soon because it's simply too prohibitive in terms of development.
If MWM spends the time to give us "damaged" versions of various costume items it might be worth a costume slot to have a damaged costume for roleplay purposes. But honestly I'd rather have something like 1,000 unique undamaged costume items than have 500 items that each have a "normal" version and a "damaged" version. Perhaps long after launch the Devs could get around to giving us a set of damaged items as some kind of special update.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I figured that was the case by the way you suggested it. We seem both seem to be of the same mind.....not against or for.
I was actually thinking back to the few costumes parts that had a damaged look to them....I think one was called blast...then the various torn and ripped martial arts outfits and stuff like that. I don't think every costume needs a damaged version.
I was just saying that in CoH with a bit of imagination and creative use of the designer players were able to make a damaged look without requiring the devs to do it for them. The use of the patterns on many outfits would be close to the damage overlay that was suggested.
Now I know the game would never have actual gore implemented. Like I said. And I just wanted to see what everyone thought.
But I would love to show that my hero has been caught in some nasty fights by his clothing or some sort of battle scars. I always loved games that had a lot scars to choose from when customizing your character.
I didn't want to start a new thread over this so, first things first:
[img]http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/6/7/3/HolyNecroPost_759032.jpg[/img]
[url=http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-11-16-why-is-star-wars-battlefront-a-pegi-16]This article[/url] raises the question about [i]Star Wars: Battlefront[/i]'s PEGI 16 rating. I would have thought that the realistic graphics played a role, although the article makes no mention of those (which is far from indicating that they don't play a role). I almost have to wonder if PEGI has a bone to pick with the Star Wars franchise since both Tera and Guild Wars 2 manage to get a PEGI 12 rating while SWTOR also rates PEGI 16.
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Graphics are not the only measure in rating. The theme is also considered as well as story elements.
City of Heroes (original) was PEGI 12, City of Villains was PEGI 16. When they merged the two together, City of Heroes took the PEGI 16 rating.
Wildstar is PEGI 12, World of Warcraft is PEGI 12, Elite Dangerous is PEGI 7
Most of the games that I have boxes for are actually BBFC rated, so the PEGI rating was not needed for them (which shows you their age if anything else, as that died about 3.5 years ago).
Tell a lie, Borderlands: The Pre Sequel. That is BBFC 18 and was actually the last PC box game that I bought (I do have Elder Scrolls Online for the Xbox One, and that is PEGI 18. WWE 2K16 is PEGI 16).
So if anything, it just goes to show how little graphics have control over a rating and it is the content that kicks it up.
Side note: I would say that if [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer%27s_Revenge]Custer's Revenge[/url] was released NOW as it is... 18 rated. Just because of the content, and NOT because of the graphics....
If the reason SWTOR gets a PEGI 16 rating is because one faction is actively "evil", and City of Villains also presumably received the PEGI 16 because the characters are "evil", then it appears to be a forgone conclusion that CoT will also receive a PEGI 16 rating. In these cases the actual level of violence, short of depicting gore and bloody violence, has little bearing on the rating.
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Admittedly City of Heroes while not blatant about it had a lot of violence and implied blood and gore. The Vazhilok gang conceptually is the earliest example of that. Hell I recall reading a blurb that flat out said that hearing civilians screaming due to being viscerally taken apart by Vazhilok's surgeons in alleyways, near the sewers, and other shady areas was not uncommon. There is certainly a lot of gang violence even in the early game and there was confirmed deaths in those battles. That is not even getting into the villain side of things or the fact most of the enemy groups were not playing games.
City of Heroes didn't get more obvious about it until Freedom yes. The Galaxy City tutorial had bodies everywhere. It wasn't flat out stated but it was obvious that all those individuals likely were not alive....
I think you can get away with a lot of violence and gore provided you are not blatant about it. Wildstar is an interesting example as that game is gory and violent as hell but has a cartoonish styling to it so they get away with it. You have people dying horribly all throughout that game....
Formerly known as Bleddyn
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Star Wars might also get that rating from the Romance arcs... Isn't there one where a female can seduce another female? I suspect that would get the town fathers in an uproar.
Be Well!
Fireheart
If you go by the original manual for Super Mario Bros, the inhabitants of the mushroom kingdom were turned into bricks.
Yep, the same bricks that you break open to get coins.
He is indeed a mass murderer.
And quite possibly explains why for a while I avoided breaking the blocks unless I *had* to, to progress ;)
/derail
I don't think there's any reason to put realistic blood and gore in a superhero game.
To me it doesn't really fit the genre (and we got out of the whole dark and gritty craze a while back, thankfully).
Blatant blood and violence in the superhero genre only really works for some characters or....Worm as of recent.
Formerly known as Bleddyn
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To be fair, there is a chance of any mob just going "poof" into a load of meat chops/pieces of steak when they die... but *overall* it is actually *not* all that bloody.
Yes, there are bodies laying on the floor (in some areas) with a pool of blood around them, but they are static
Side note: I still love the death animation for Chua, the way in which they flop to the floor is a real piece of work.
That's what I meant, it's violent and gory but in a cartoony way. Even with that said....a lot of horrible deaths still occur on Nexus. Wildstar just never really was that blatant about it....
Now how World of Warcraft got away with that I have no clue....
Formerly known as Bleddyn
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCqnt88Umk]Do you want to be a hero?[/url]
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TotalBiscuit, The Cynical Brit > I will now talk about violence and video game narratives for just under 30 mins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXsE-Zwb_j4
whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich
[img]http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm106/hinata1032/Kitsune.jpg[/img]
Put in much later than the rating it was given.
I'd say it was the many evil things one can do on Empire side.
As for the OP, it's a superhero MMO, I'm not sure we need the blood and gore. I like the idea of battle damage, but it's no good if it's based on health :p So, I'd say stick to giving players a way to battle damage all the costume options.
I agree, never once while playing CoX did I ever feel like I needed blood and gore. The animation and sound FX were so impressive that I never even thought about anything else.This is especially true if I was playing a hero, I wanted everything to be sunshine and daisies.
If at one point when the game has been out a while and a million people are begging for it as an option, then I'd say why not. But to me it doesn't really fit the vibe of the superhero MMO. It might be a nice idea to add it into a mission or two and see how that goes over first though.
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
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I don't care for blood and gore. I think they're just gratuitous. That said, I think it would be hilarious to see bolts and other random parts falling out of robots as we trash them. Like we get piles of brass from our guns. But that's about it.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
As long as kids don't see black oil gushing out of the bots as their limbs are cut off / ripped off.
At that point, it's just comedy :p
That is one thing I did actually like about CoX, the aura's. When you fought rock creatures rubble would fall, when you fought clockwerk gears would fly. I do hope something like that gets put in CoT.
Yeah, gotta keep the robot fighting clean.
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The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
Oh, damn. Right in the printer cartridge. That's just not right.
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Definitely! Those things cost more than gold.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Haha, that made me lol
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
Is that an Austin Powers reference? :o
Nope. It has been worked out that the printer fluid used in refills when sold at the "official price" (ie in the cartridge) costs more than its equivalent weight in gold.
That is why it is NOT uncommon (or at least it wasn't at a certain point in time) for it to be cheaper to buy a printer brand new when the ink runs out than buy the official cartridges for it.
It can't be just that, Wow's Forsaken are quite damn evil with all their biological warfare and cannibalism.
Yes, they are my favourite faction...
And if CoT gets blood and gore (and I hope it doesn't), then imho it should be so over the top that no one could take it serious... think Deadpool or Lobo.
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_HUdf89hI8]Send out your signal, call in your hero
I kidnapped his lady, now his power's are zero.
[/url]
Well met, good sir, didn't realise YOU were on here! Many of your videos are awesome.
In this one, it's a little long but 14:30 to 17:45 and 21:00 to end make excellent points, I agree totally. In fact, I hope all users and devs here watch and take note from it, especially with regards to how they view violence in a game like CoT is set to become and if they intend to use UGC features to make their own arcs and instances.
Similar points I tried to raise in my thread on Terrorism and terrorist-related content, maybe not as well as you do, tho: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/path-terrorist-antivillain
"TRUST ME."
That's not even getting into all the twisted shit that the Scourge does were the aforementioned Forsaken seperated from, especially the fact that you are pretty much a heartless killing machine for most of the Death Knight starting zone.
How WoW got away with that rating is completely utterly beyond me. The Death Knight zone alone should of bumped it up pretty high. I mean I know you are slaughtering the Scarlet Crusade but come on you are cutting down fleeing defenseless civilians to be used as undead ghouls or parts for abominations at the very start of it and it just gets worse from there.....
Formerly known as Bleddyn
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sorry my not TotalBiscuit and i show video he good idea
whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich
[img]http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm106/hinata1032/Kitsune.jpg[/img]
Sorry, my bad, I thought you were TB and were referring to yourself by your phrasing! I'm dumb.
"TRUST ME."
I quite agree that the lack of blood fits it well. Much like other certain other games blood certainly doesn't add on certain genres. Blood in a super-hero game wouldn't really fit unless you're attempting to do a ultimate universe thing or make all the heroes and villains killers.
Plus, despite how kinda hilarious it was that I "arrested" people by punching them hard enough to destroy machines, setting them on fire and riddling them with bullets fired by several different thugs.
But yeah, like you said, I don't believe blood would add anything and instead detract from the artistic style of the game. It'd be like putting blood and gore in Final Fantasy 9.