Twitch Upcoming!

We're delaying our Twitch till AFTER a very specific KS update. You'll know what one, we'll talk about the twitch in the update. We need all hands to get this one ready.
Which still means something good is coming.
https://www.twitch.tv/missingworldsmedia

Rotty's stream ended.
Check him out at right here

Discuss: Highway To The Danger Room

211 posts / 0 new
Last post
JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Felix wrote:
Felix wrote:

OK, the augment slot that changes damage type is a power set augment (maybe we should refer to it as a converter), which is separate and does not share any functionality with power augments. So to change damage type, you would slot the converter with that change, and the powers with your 4 damages.
Felix

This is a system I can get behind. I've a long history of asking for these converters and am excited for them becoming closer to reality.

Tannim222 wrote:

You will not have to use an Augment Socket in your individual powers by having to socket a something like damage alteration into each one to get that effect on a per power basis.

This is great news. Thank you for clarification.

I kind of have to ask what other options are available in that power set wide Augmentation slot that are not converters/DAPSA (whether they be full or partial damage converters)

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Yinepuhotep
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 day ago
Joined: 10/01/2013 - 23:22
The description in the

The description in the announcement reminds me very much of what I loved so much about Champions. The infinite flexibility, using basic building blocks, is something I've always loved.

Godling
Godling's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 11 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 13:28
warcabbit "No stop signs! No

warcabbit "No stop signs! No speed limits!"

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Godling wrote:
But sometimes there’s weird things, like a static bonus to regen, or a travel speed boost for all power sets. Those kind of power set augments get to live in your tertiary sets. But you only get one or two per character.
Better make that one or two each per character, Otherwise most people will stick with regeneration for health or energy and the others would be rarely used.

We have other steps in-place to reduce this which we are not yet ready to reveal. These steps also make something like the GDN and ED unneeded.

I guess they did not expect me to have a deloran with a triflux capacitor. That's why warcabbit's secret police are pulling stop signs out of their trunks and planting them in the middle of my car.

There is just two things missing from ultimate power/character customization. something like a Unifying Force.

One! Not something tied to a particular Origin, but something that explains how your Origin affects your powers
Something like a proc for a type of damage that effects all powers even pets and tertiary powers some powers just
wont fit the concept for the proc.
Or a proc for for a low magnitude status effect
Or a proc for health regeneration, energy regeneration, defense boost damage reduction
Some people may want something like a proc that could randomly proc as anything, simulating a million dirty tricks.

Two! A global bonus, that effects all aspects of all powers. Slotting improves the bonus

If you want these things speak now before numbers are generated, because they will be harder to balance in the future.

Northie
Northie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 2 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/03/2013 - 07:17
Hmm. I'm not entirely sure I

Hmm. I'm not entirely sure I get why a power converter is needed. Let's say I pick electric blast as a set, gun as the item and some snazzy animation to go with it. Twenty levels later I figure out I actually want my gun to shoot ice so I respec my character and pick ice blast instead of electric blast. I mean surely it's easier and much clearer for players to respec sets as opposed to add these converters?

I could see converters to be more useful per power as opposed to power set. Let's say I want to mix fire and ice so I'd pick ice blast as a set and pick ice bolt, ice blast and bitter ice blast. I add a power converter and change that ice blast to fire blast while keeping its original secondary effect. A clear tactical choice since appearance customization is already handled by the effect and animation system.

Similarly I could see converters tactically useful if they converted portion of the set damage as opposed to full conversion. i.e. I want telekinetic blades so I pick blade melee, color it transcluent pink (because pink means psychic, mkay) and slap in a power converter that converts portion of slashing damage dealt by individual powers to psychic damage.

As for power augments. Will we see CoH type "adds chance for extra AoE fire damage", "adds chance to stun" etc procs to powers?

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Northie wrote:
Northie wrote:

Hmm. I'm not entirely sure I get why a power converter is needed. Let's say I pick electric blast as a set, gun as the item and some snazzy animation to go with it. Twenty levels later I figure out I actually want my gun to shoot ice so I respec my character and pick ice blast instead of electric blast. I mean surely it's easier and much clearer for players to respec sets as opposed to add these converters?
I could see converters to be more useful per power as opposed to power set. Let's say I want to mix fire and ice so I'd pick ice blast as a set and pick ice bolt, ice blast and bitter ice blast. I add a power converter and change that ice blast to fire blast while keeping its original secondary effect. A clear tactical choice since appearance customization is already handled by the effect and animation system.
Similarly I could see converters tactically useful if they converted portion of the set damage as opposed to full conversion. i.e. I want telekinetic blades so I pick blade melee, color it transcluent pink (because pink means psychic, mkay) and slap in a power converter that converts portion of slashing damage dealt by individual powers to psychic damage.
As for power augments. Will we see CoH type "adds chance for extra AoE fire damage", "adds chance to stun" etc procs to powers?

I *think* I see two things. Please anyone, especially a dev, correct me if I'm wrong.

IF (and that's a big if) I understand correctly, people will be choosing power converters IN PLACE OF other things that they could slot that would, say, add effects or increase their "base" damage or control or whatnot. That greatly decreases the tactical advantage of using a converter, even to a "less resisted" type of damage.
-
Also, some people will make awesome thematic choices to, say chose cold damage for a fire set because their black fire is The Anti-Life Flame, or they will chose poison damage for their deep, sickly green electrical blast because it is actually tendrils of the decay and disease energy of an ancient entropic God (ideally with and octopiod head), or their golden laser will knock you back and do smashing damage because it is actually a hard-light construct, etc...
-
And some will do pink liquid spurts that do psionic damage with fire DoT because that combination of damage is the PvE or PvP FOTM and it matches their pink goth/clown Japanese schoolgirl with a skirt and tail.
-
You can't MAKE people make good choices. And they paid too. I say let them have their fun. As long as it's balanced an there are lots of classic heroes running around as well.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

I *think* I see two things. Please anyone, especially a dev, correct me if I'm wrong.
IF (and that's a big if) I understand correctly, people will be choosing power converters IN PLACE OF other things that they could slot that would, say, add effects or increase their "base" damage or control or whatnot. That greatly decrease

The "change to a less resisted type"needs to be addressed. Firstly I sincerely hope that the PvE is handled in such a way that there are no great game-wide advantages to certain damage types (whatever those types end up being).

For PvP purposes (I can already see some people coil to strike at the mention of it) the ability to convert damage needs to be son a semi-permanent basis. At the very most it should be a once every 4+ hour type change .. something not done mid battle/dungeon/match etc.

Much like Wildstar does with its trade skills.. the choice of conversion should feel like it is something that is testable at the start but is mostly permanent/costly/has increasing cool down time after the choice has been committed.

- -

The trade off for damage conversion must exist.. I understand and accept this.. but If A=B and B=C then we have enough transitive property so that the trade off is much greater when people want to use 50%A/50%C damage than it is for people who choose to switch from A to C damage.

I want the transitive property to be low/free cost because there's no inherent advantage. I want those who want situational advantage to have high cost because it changes the actual mathematical gameplay of powers design.

I hope people can follow what I'm saying there.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

I *think* I see two things. Please anyone, especially a dev, correct me if I'm wrong.
IF (and that's a big if) I understand correctly, people will be choosing power converters IN PLACE OF other things that they could slot that would, say, add effects or increase their "base" damage or control or whatnot. That greatly decrease

The "change to a less resisted type"needs to be addressed. Firstly I sincerely hope that the PvE is handled in such a way that there are no great game-wide advantages to certain damage types (whatever those types end up being).

For PvP purposes (I can already see some people coil to strike at the mention of it) the ability to convert damage needs to be son a semi-permanent basis. At the very most it should be a once every 4+ hour type change .. something not done mid battle/dungeon/match etc.

Much like Wildstar does with its trade skills.. the choice of conversion should feel like it is something that is testable at the start but is mostly permanent/costly/has increasing cool down time after the choice has been committed.

- -

The trade off for damage conversion must exist.. I understand and accept this.. but If A=B and B=C then we have enough transitive property so that the trade off is much greater when people want to use 50%A/50%C damage than it is for people who choose to switch from A to C damage.

I want the transitive property to be low/free cost because there's no inherent advantage. I want those who want situational advantage to have high cost because it changes the actual mathematical gameplay of powers design.

I hope people can follow what I'm saying there.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Lost_in_Thought
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 day ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/09/2013 - 15:35
Gaahh, the customization

Gaahh, the customization options boggle my mind.

As far as the Power Converter option goes, I can see it working for and against players dependent upon their themes. If a player wished to create a character named "Coldfire", they would probably want a fire or ice set and the proper Power Converter.

On the other hand, suppose that a player wishes to create a power armored juggernaut and wishes to have a single attack that generated a PBAoE electric shock wave rather than a standard crushing shock wave. In this circumstance (thematically) the Power Converter works against the character as it would alter the damage type of all of their abilities rather than just a single one.

While we don't have all of the information yet, one question can be asked to help players get a better understanding / handle on the Power Converter situation -- If the option exists to alter the damage type of an entire power set, will the option also exist to change the type of damage a single attack can do?

Lost_in_Thought
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 day ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/09/2013 - 15:35
On another note, can we

On another note, can we expect to see augments that change abilities into toggles, buffs, add multiple types of damage or even add status effects.

Examples:
Lightning Strike with the [Add Sonic Damage Augment] adds +25% sonic damage (math may vary).
Lightning Strike with the [Aura Augment] -90% damage, deals damage in a 20 ft sphere around the character every 3 seconds (toggled).
Lightning Strike with the [Knock Down Augment] +25% chance to knock down a target when struck
Lightning Strike with the [Personal Buff Augment] -40% damage, the next 3 strikes deal additional lightning damage based on the damage this ability would do.

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Lost_in_Thought wrote:
Lost_in_Thought wrote:

Gaahh, the customization options boggle my mind.
As far as the Power Converter option goes, I can see it working for and against players dependent upon their themes. If a player wished to create a character named "Coldfire", they would probably want a fire or ice set and the proper Power Converter.
On the other hand, suppose that a player wishes to create a power armored juggernaut and wishes to have a single attack that generated a PBAoE electric shock wave rather than a standard crushing shock wave. In this circumstance (thematically) the Power Converter works against the character as it would alter the damage type of all of their abilities rather than just a single one.
While we don't have all of the information yet, one question can be asked to help players get a better understanding / handle on the Power Converter situation -- If the option exists to alter the damage type of an entire power set, will the option also exist to change the type of damage a single attack can do?

Assault Rifle was kind of CoH's "Power Armor" with all of it's different damage types. It'd be a bit of a step backwards on one level if you couldn't do that. I bet the devs have it covered somehow.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Lost_in_Thought
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 day ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/09/2013 - 15:35
I suppose I will have to take

I suppose I will have to take a bit of a deeper look into how powers are acquired. I was still working off of the premise that all powers within a set shared a common damage type (or two) for some reason.

However, the question still stands as to whether you can take something like the "sword" set and change the type of damage that each strike does (I keep thinking of the Parivir from FFTA2.) rather than having an overarching damage type change.

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 47 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Something like the converter,

Something like the converter, as it currently stands, would be a Power Set Augment, which goes into the socket that affects one or more powers within a set, this would not be on a per power basis set by the user. I say one or more powers becuase there may be powers in a set that would not benefit from a damage type conversion. And really, to me the take away that the converter was supposed to be an example of, is that a Power Set has its own socket and there will be things that can be placed in that socket which only affect powers within the set.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Lost_in_Thought
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 day ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/09/2013 - 15:35
Ah, much thanks on the

Ah, much thanks on the clarification, though now that I think about the fact that power sets have their own augment slots, that just opens up even more options.

Godling
Godling's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 11 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 13:28
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

Empyrean wrote:
I *think* I see two things. Please anyone, especially a dev, correct me if I'm wrong.
IF (and that's a big if) I understand correctly, people will be choosing power converters IN PLACE OF other things that they could slot that would, say, add effects or increase their "base" damage or control or whatnot. That greatly decrease
The "change to a less resisted type"needs to be addressed. Firstly I sincerely hope that the PvE is handled in such a way that there are no great game-wide advantages to certain damage types (whatever those types end up being).
For PvP purposes (I can already see some people coil to strike at the mention of it) the ability to convert damage needs to be son a semi-permanent basis. At the very most it should be a once every 4+ hour type change .. something not done mid battle/dungeon/match etc.
Much like Wildstar does with its trade skills.. the choice of conversion should feel like it is something that is testable at the start but is mostly permanent/costly/has increasing cool down time after the choice has been committed.
- -
The trade off for damage conversion must exist.. I understand and accept this.. but If A=B and B=C then we have enough transitive property so that the trade off is much greater when people want to use 50%A/50%C damage than it is for people who choose to switch from A to C damage.
I want the transitive property to be low/free cost because there's no inherent advantage. I want those who want situational advantage to have high cost because it changes the actual mathematical gameplay of powers design.
I hope people can follow what I'm saying there.

If half the PvE opponents had power converters and about a 25% buff to the damage resistance versus the converted damage type.
Then it would be difficult to metagame power converters.
It would give the game a more unique feel especially if the power converters were of random types.
And the power converted was a separate element like boss minion lieutenant, and the likes of slicer slammer and gunner.

Northie
Northie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 2 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/03/2013 - 07:17
Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

I *think* I see two things. Please anyone, especially a dev, correct me if I'm wrong.
IF (and that's a big if) I understand correctly, people will be choosing power converters IN PLACE OF other things that they could slot that would, say, add effects or increase their "base" damage or control or whatnot. That greatly decreases the tactical advantage of using a converter, even to a "less resisted" type of damage.
-

Well then this is actual disadvantage. You would lose the benefit from those powerset wide boosts in exchange for damage type conversion. Something you could simply get by respeccing your fire blast to iceblast after which you could add those set wide bonuses that you miss by slotting the converter. The only advantage over respeccing that I can think of is if respeccing also makes you lose all augments or if you need to actually buy respecs with real money.

Empyrean wrote:

Also, some people will make awesome thematic choices to, say chose cold damage for a fire set because their black fire is The Anti-Life Flame, or they will chose poison damage for their deep, sickly green electrical blast because it is actually tendrils of the decay and disease energy of an ancient entropic God (ideally with and octopiod head), or their golden laser will knock you back and do smashing damage because it is actually a hard-light construct, etc...-

Yes. Well. The thing is that they have advertised this aesthetic decoupling. I don't see why exactly you would need the fire blast for your cold damage when you can pick ice blast and select suitable effect + animation + emitter or have I misunderstood something about how it works?

It's just a bit confusing is all. I do hope there are mixed converters though because I really want my pink blades that do half physical and half psionic damage. I *do* like the tactical choice for having mixed damage. It *should* be situationally more useful than going pure damage type route.

Edit: I'd also like to mix damage types per power basis for which converters looks like the optimal choice. Let's say I'm a gadgeteer or a soldier who has various devices. A laser rifle, a tazer, explosive grenades, and a flamethrower. Those represent different damage types so I'd probably pick a set which has a single target, aoe, and some utility and then use the "aesthetic decoupling" to change individual power animations, emitters and effects to meet these requirements, and finally slap power converters to give my "flamethrower" some flame, my "laser rifle" some energy damage, and "grenades" a mix of slash/flame damage.

syntaxerror37
syntaxerror37's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 14 hours ago
Joined: 08/24/2013 - 11:01
Northie wrote:
Northie wrote:

Yes. Well. The thing is that they have advertised this aesthetic decoupling. I don't see why exactly you would need the fire blast for your cold damage when you can pick ice blast and select suitable effect + animation + emitter or have I misunderstood something about how it works?

You haven't misunderstood at all. It's really about having options both mechanically and thematically. Let's say I wanted to make a character who fights with an electrically charged sword.I could pick a physical damage melee set, a sword fighting animation, and a sword model with electricity dancing all over it. Or I could pick an energy damage melee set instead with the same animation. Either one of those could work and I could be happy with that and not worry about it anymore. But what if it's important to me that my sword both shock and slash my foes? That's where the converter would come in. Assuming the game is balanced enough that one type of damage does not outperform another significantly my electro-sword wielder would not be breaking the game and her mechanics would match her theme.

Quote:

Edit: I'd also like to mix damage types per power basis for which converters looks like the optimal choice. Let's say I'm a gadgeteer or a soldier who has various devices. A laser rifle, a tazer, explosive grenades, and a flamethrower. Those represent different damage types so I'd probably pick a set which has a single target, aoe, and some utility and then use the "aesthetic decoupling" to change individual power animations, emitters and effects to meet these requirements, and finally slap power converters to give my "flamethrower" some flame, my "laser rifle" some energy damage, and "grenades" a mix of slash/flame damage.

It has been stated the converter would be for the set. There may be individual powers in a set it could have no effect on. For example, a 50% psi damage converter wouldn't mean anything to a build-up like power.

-----------------------------------------
I never set anything on fire accidentally!

The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame

Northie
Northie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 2 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/03/2013 - 07:17
syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

You haven't misunderstood at all. It's really about having options both mechanically and thematically. Let's say I wanted to make a character who fights with an electrically charged sword.I could pick a physical damage melee set, a sword fighting animation, and a sword model with electricity dancing all over it. Or I could pick an energy damage melee set instead with the same animation. Either one of those could work and I could be happy with that and not worry about it anymore. But what if it's important to me that my sword both shock and slash my foes? That's where the converter would come in. Assuming the game is balanced enough that one type of damage does not outperform another significantly my electro-sword wielder would not be breaking the game and her mechanics would match her theme.

Yep but that's the thing. If I pick energy melee or blade melee and the end result can be visually same what exactly is the point for converters? If I want energy-based sword I'll pick energy melee with sword animation & emitters. If I want physical based sword I can pick another look - or the same.

Let's say I pick a physical sword with a matching powerset and 20 levels later I decide I'll want energy sword, so what do I do? Respec of course! By respeccing I can drop the "blades melee set" and pick "energy melee set". I'll just customize the look so that the energy melee looks like I'm still using a sword. Why would I pick a converter instead of respeccing to a new set if at the same time I lose the powerset slot for that converter?

If visuals are under our control the only real reason for a converter that I can think is because "blade melee" has statistically better attacks and secondary effects than "energy melee" so it's more worthwhile to pick blade melee and convert its attacks to energy damage than run actual "energy melee" which offers that option natively but with different attacks and secondaries. Converter doesn't affect the secondary effects after all or any powers that do not deal damage.

If converter is a better option it just leads to people picking the most efficient set and then customizing it to their needs both visually and damage type wise. If it's a less effective option then they just respec. If the end result is zero sum then what does the converter add over a respec?

I think the converter has to add something to the game that respeccing and power customization can't do. i.e. allow damage type splits. Otherwise it looks like just another balance hurdle imo.

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 47 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Perhaps a couple of other

Perhaps a couple of other points of clarification can help with this current discussion. Character respecs, so far as changing entire power sets are conscerned are only being considered for the Secondary Set (and Tertiary sets but they aren't "whole" major sets). Next thing to consider is different sets offer different playstyles, some may have more single target, others more aoe (for example of different attack play styles). If you have a character with a Primary Set like say Weapons, if could very well offer a different playstyle than say, a Burning Set. And while there is aesthetic decoupling, there may be limitations of options within sets. Finally, right now we are considering for Damage Converters to only change half the damage type.

Should someone decide down the road that they would like their character with a Blades Primar to do Burning, and since they can't respec their Primary, they happen to like the play style offered in Blades, a damage converter placed in their Primary Power Set Augment Socket would change half their 'blade damage' to half burning, half blade.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Mind-Freeze
Mind-Freeze's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 04:28
Keeps getting better the more

Keeps getting better the more I hear !!

whiteperegrine
whiteperegrine's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 06/19/2014 - 14:49
Mind-Freeze wrote:
Mind-Freeze wrote:

Keeps getting better the more I hear !!

agreed! sooo....is the game ready yet to play??? no? ...crud...

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Damn.. this thing is being

Damn.. this thing is being painted with some broad strokes. While I see the benefit of a 50% conversion as compared to a certain % accuracy or magnitude boost I am still very much an advocate of the full 100% conversion transitive property.

How much money can I throw at you to just make my character's powers in the game so I don't have to worry about it?

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

Damn.. this thing is being painted with some broad strokes. While I see the benefit of a 50% conversion as compared to a certain % accuracy or magnitude boost I am still very much an advocate of the full 100% conversion transitive property.
How much money can I throw at you to just make my character's powers in the game so I don't have to worry about it?

Aw, c'mon. Building will be fun like it was in CoH. You'll see.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Felix
Felix's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/04/2013 - 20:45
What are your characters

What are your characters powers? And how much money are we talking here?

*grin*

Felix

Know thy users, for they are not you.
"Preliminary optimization is the root of all evil." -Knuth
Coding Lead
a.k.a. Mr Sigma, Mr. Stochastic, Balancing Act, The Oncoming Storm

CallmeBlue
CallmeBlue's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 06/14/2014 - 01:37
Sounds VERY interesting!

Sounds VERY interesting!

However, can I suggest something with respect to the UI?

At first glance, the triangles look like arrows. Someone might confuse them with up and down arrows, perhaps symbolizing buffs to the power or debuffs to the target. Someone else might think that you click on the "up arrow" to increment some value, and you click on the "down arrow" to decrement it.

Why not use some "neutral" shape for unfilled slots, and then change the slot shape depending on the nature of what is slotted in it? If the items retained their shape even in inventory, that would make it simpler to pick out particular items. I realize that this idea would complicate UI design, but it could make slotting much more intuitive.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
I want this:

I want this:

Can I Fold Them? :D

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 47 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Augs and Refs being triangles

Augs and Refs being triangles is likely to stay, however the Augs with Ref one, two, and three Ref sockets will have different shapes to accommodate the upside down triangle Refs. Augs and Refs will also have their own colors to indicate their what they improve and are likely to have a symbol within the body as well. Along with these indicators, Augs and Refs will also be things dropping into your character inventory, being traded, and sold. All of these factors should resolve any confusion that the Augs and Refs are UI functions.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
Izzy, your thinking is right

Izzy, your thinking is right next to mine regarding the collapsing powers.

Project Lead

srmalloy
srmalloy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 4 days ago
kickstarter
Joined: 09/04/2013 - 10:41
CinnderP.S. If we did get the

CinnderP.S. If we did get the ability to rename powers, I'd change "Chi Punch" to "Chi Tea" just to amuse my daughter.[/quote wrote:

With an AoE attack that you named "Bang Bang" just so you could have a particularly silly combo move?

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Felix wrote:
Felix wrote:

What are your characters powers? And how much money are we talking here?
*grin*
Felix

Electromagnetic Spectrum Controller - Microwaves, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation, Radiowave Transmission Communication

Basically she's what psychics WISH they were.. aka REAL SCIENCE.

You give me a $ threshold and I will find you find you the private investment equity. Don't think I'm joking.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Interdictor
Interdictor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 26 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/22/2013 - 05:26
I don't think a 100% damage

I don't think a 100% damage type conversion would be a bad thing as long as it isn't easy to switch out - or something you can't do on the fly (i.e. unless you respec or have an "unslotter"). This would avoid a lot of PvP and even PvP "min-maxing". I'd rather see this than the 50/50 thing.

Of course, augments/converters offering a 50%/50% split could have their thematic place as well; say I have a flaming braodsword - I can easily see it doing half stabby/half burninating damage.

Minotaur
Minotaur's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 11 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/05/2012 - 12:49
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

Felix wrote:
What are your characters powers? And how much money are we talking here?
*grin*
Felix

Electromagnetic Spectrum Controller - Microwaves, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation, Radiowave Transmission Communication
Basically she's what psychics WISH they were.. aka REAL SCIENCE.
You give me a $ threshold and I will find you find you the private investment equity. Don't think I'm joking.

There's a microwave scene in the first kickass movie coming to mind that certainly has no place in a teen rated game.

Tech Team and Forum Moderator

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 34 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
If it involves placing any

If it involves placing any kind of food in a microwave, I agree. Such nasty things have no place in any game, much less a game rated Teen.

<.< >.>

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Catherine America
Catherine America's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/16/2013 - 15:24
warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

Izzy, your thinking is right next to mine regarding the collapsing powers.

Yes. Cleeeeeeean. Keep it as cleeeeeeean as possible

One should not have to scroll down to see all powers, augs and refs...unless one decides to open everything (either one-at-a-time or via the "expand all" button)

---
Now: Anthem's Special Envoy for Economic Growth and Free Trade
Then: Underboss for Acquisitions and Capital Investments - The Black Rose
Soon: Operational Commander, Titan City Citizens' Assault Team (TCCAT) - Tarot Counter-Assault Unit

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Any thought to certain

Any thought to certain frameworks to come in more than one damage type at choice? Not EVERY damage type (tho this is what I want) but maybe 2 of the 5 major types.

Choose Brain-Stuff controller set and choose between Particle (dimentional/electric) damage or Supernatural (psychic/magic) damage? This would be way better to me than choosing "Telepathy" as defined by supernatural means.

The Wave Ranger set can come in both physical (blunt/sharp) or Toxic (chemical/biological)..

man.. I just know there are so many unique heroes yet unborn because their powers aren't depicted by Marvel/DC comics. Giving us the choice of 100% damage conversion lets so many of these be born into the mythos of the Titans Universe

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Capt Odee
Capt Odee's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 13 hours ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/16/2013 - 09:34
YES! My Steampunk Electro

YES! My Steampunk Electro blaster rifle shall be made! TYTY TYSVM for brightening my week!

Capt Odee, saving the city one click at a time.

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Minotaur wrote:
Minotaur wrote:

There's a microwave scene in the first kickass movie coming to mind that certainly has no place in a teen rated game.

Just went and re-watched that scene. Hell Yeah!

You may cook slowly before the defeat with wide band microwaves but the result is worth it.

Microwaves spectrum are also the most used in long range (satellite) communications (way better than radio waves) giving her the ability to transmit her thoughts to tech (your TV now shows what she's thinking?! WEIRD!)

Radar? Oh yeah.. she doesn't need to see through walls. She is better than Doppler.. one of the first to see Hurricane Atlas. Daredevil? Psh.. you got nothing on her. (Non combat powers are awesome)

All of that BEFORE her specialty.. BRAIN CONTROL! That's right.. not your mind.. your actual brain can be controlled with focused magnets turning on/off neurotransmitters. Who cares about that "magic" stuff.

Transmitting thoughts check. Invisible sight, check. Hurt stuff check. Control stuff, check. Telepathy is over-rated. I think you should just make Kontrol's power the standard mind control set instead of psychic telepathy.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Sweet_Miss_Skaldi
Sweet_Miss_Skaldi's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/25/2014 - 06:01
Wow, so exciting, so excited,

Wow, so exciting, so excited, wondering now, would I be able to channel my powers through a pet that follows me around? Kind of like the DnD Wizard with their familiar doing touch attacks? Your weapon as a wizard then might be your pet... why did I think of a snow wizard just now with a blackbird on his shoulder blasting ice at people? :D Oh gosh, you could have shoulder rockets that shoot powers. :D What if I go to a garden and pick a rose, could I channel the powers through the rose then? Wondering how mundane objects would fit into the game, or if you could pick out any object in the game, even a key and focus your powers through that. Can I shoot rainbows at people? You should not excite people like this, this late at night! Now I'm wondering and thinking because I played Roc and TFT a bit, and they had something that allowed you to pretty much triplicate powers onto any object, but I think it was unstable somehow and crashed frequently (custom player map). Yeah okay, they allowed you to choose your power first, and then you could pick up any object or weapon, and then the magic got transfered into the weapon or object as a damage power up. Just sort of pushing ideas around here. :) So if you ever got tired of that translucent pink painted blade you could swap it out for a teddy bear or a giant cupcake for giggles, you know seeing a very serious character running at you with a cupcake as big as a round shield in her left hand. Or you could actually be able to have a working and animated Cerebrus/Hydra in the game with all heads able to shoot fireballs, or a very real Cthulu/Orichimaru monster haunting the local ocean. It could have a telekinetic grapple attack and then punch you with it's 30 tentacles all day. Daily epic team-up event perhaps?

okay so working out more ideas :) You can set it to your pet's mouth, so you could have a customized 'super-powered pet' that can attack targets but has very weak defenses and will need to be protected. I don't think pets should ever die and should perhaps lay down with a timer when they do. When timer is up pet stands up again, should be able to recall your pet so you can carry it away for super-travel.

Sorry- ideas from other topics are bleeding into this one.

Hmm, quick question, are you going to allow us to set our own attachment points for where the power emits from on our character's body in character creator? Could we add more as we level up with better powers by returning to character creator? Therefore if you bought a pet and had it out, then returned to character creator you could specify where on your pet your power manifested. Eyeballs? Nose? Mouth? Ears? Right Paw? Left Paw? or, with attachment points, we could set multiple, like white winking lights ghostly shaped like wings for a fly power and then just set them on the back, or upper back shoulders or change the size to small and stick them to the heels of your boots!

Oh dear, another question, what if you allowed characters to forge their own custom weapons that become part of their character? Like a workshop that allows you to in 3D make a drawing of what exactly you want your wizard staff to look like and then after it's approved you can have that object in game. I just know I'd be the crazy one running around with a large purple cupcake of sonic blasting for a weapon :)

But then could you be stunned or even worse disarmed and then your weapon would be temporarily lost to or unavailable until you walked over it? Would that then mean if you were disarmed that another hero could grab your weapon and use it, probably not, only you could because it's a focus for your own powers. Unless an exception was made for several diferent quests or really hard super-boss quests.

I mean disarmed in DnD is so bad, that +6 weapon is locked in a cage and you are under the power of unfriendlies who escort you wherever THEY want, and if they want to bring you down to 5% health or lower that's their perogative. Always fun of course :)

I remember in another game I played once I brought up disarming attacks and I was told they would need to rewrite the entire combat system to include something like that. So I am mentioning it again now with fingers crossed. :)

Someone mentioned IT Chi, and I had an immediate image of a player waving a wand at night at a mob and glowing green 101011's came out of it and hit the mob, followed by a what-if thought of Rocket Racoon using his blaster and having large puffy A B C letters shooting towards the enemy.

Then I had another thought, what if a character decided to choose 'unpowered' and simply play he game powerless? Would that be an option? Perhaps as an 'elite' mode that proves that a player's ability is so extreme that he can solo CoT without any special powers at all. I've run high powered M&M games but I've also done low powered and no-powered where your characters end up being the equivalent of modern detectives. The choice of low powers has always led to a more gritty game where the powers wouldn't be that awesome blasting power, it would be a simple knife that didn't glow, or fists. Just throwing more thoughts into the mix. :)

Let's see, and now I'm thinking oriental-style powers like leapords, and snake-like dragons, hawks, but they're translucent and glow but would be more clear towards the center, like ooh I'm thinking of how some sky and star maps will show you where scorpio is for example, it's a ghostly outline done on alpha channel and fit over a weapon the hero may carry, but each one is a power-up, hmm maybe a power set for a monk/ninja/shaman styled hero?

I am wondering about the possibilities of the folliwing spells/powers.

Alter Self, after commiting a crime OR finishing an adventure the hero changes his/her identity to an alternate that she set in hero creator, so you could have a hero who changes into another person commits felonies in the city and changes back to a recognized hero to avoid being caught by npc's like a fun and crazy game of cat and mouse. Higher levels more alternate identities.

Wild Shape, you transform yourself into your pet, you are now your pet's size and able to do adventures that are hidden from the heroes including detective adventures, however it's still you and you still have your powers. Perhaps I'm also thinking this option would only be available to Mighty Mouse styled characters.

Psychic Transference, you transfer your psyche to your pet, similiar to Wild Shape but a little different. You can then play as your pet, level him/her up, gain new powers, training, change up the fur style, add a little cape or hero costume.

Also let's see animal emotes, let's allow you to continue to communicate with others for simplicity, but also you can /facepalm, /bark, /growl, /nuzzle and travel as your animal would, Be a parrot and fly around CoT today!

I once played Masquerade table-top as a Gangrel class, had so much fun getting the drop on and distracting the mobs, oh I remember this one time I had to go into a graveyard to follow the trail of another vampire and gather intel. So I turned myself into a snowy white owl, then to initiate combat. I dropped down onto the roof of a mausleum and said "Who?" The mobs all turned to look at me, but couldn't decide if they should shoot or not and my partner who had been sneaking up behind them took them both out with a sap.

Then I transformed back, we went down there and killed the ancient vampire who was supposed to be dead but apparently survived. He had a huge bounty on his head and then we left.

oh and sorry for practically writing a book post but I kept getting ideas as I was reading this thread.

Robots, clockwork or Cybermen style. You are the genius, few appreciate your intellect, prowess or scientific and computer programming skills but you were able to do it, you built your own pet robot and invested some of your powers into it. Your robot is something of a pet, depending on your character's intellect and skills in both science and programming plus a random dice roll or two your pet's AI is determined. The better the roll total the better and smarter the AI, of course if you don't like it you can attempt to reprogram it, or just let it learn from previous mistakes, of course one day your invention may become your worst enemy as it becomes intelligent enough to realize you've been using it as your personal slave, and then it might plot to rebel against you, but never-fear, you are the master and while you grew up from being a simple enlightened genius, you too are also able to outsmart it. At least I hope so. :)

Imaginitive young lady looking for clients, talents are imagining the realistic possibilities of practically anything, and applying new technologies to practical applications in all types of business.

Terlin
Terlin's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 05:00
Hello, Sweet_Miss_Skaldi

Hello, Sweet_Miss_Skaldi

I'm going to let the tech guys answer most of this, but I want to point one thing out. CoT combat is based around powers and not gear. That means your powers are part of you, even if they activate from a weapon or other object/point. You cannot be disarmed: not in the traditional sense.

That does not mean that powers cannot be affected in various ways. They are used in a dynamic world after all.

-

Terlin

The Bullpen

Sweet_Miss_Skaldi
Sweet_Miss_Skaldi's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/25/2014 - 06:01
Terlin,

Terlin,

I am throwing lots of ideas around, I would want a game as versatile as the many I have mentioned and do you not think it's limiting if they go entirely with that route? It seems to me like you are saying that non-powered heroes like Punisher, Van Helsing, Halo, Black Widow, Mocking Bird, Gimmick the Gadget, Dr. Who, Mad Max, Ninja, and all of the Agents working at SHIELD will have no place as heroes in CoT? Isn't that more excluding a more versatile base than bringing it in?

Imaginitive young lady looking for clients, talents are imagining the realistic possibilities of practically anything, and applying new technologies to practical applications in all types of business.

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 31 min 28 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
Only that for purposes of the

Only that for purposes of the game mechanics, there is no equipment. Other games have equipment that gives a character abilities, but for most super heroes and villains, gaining this gear in game doesn't work. If they need it, they get it before they start heroing and villaining. Or at least before they are considered super.

But if your character uses guns or magic wands, that's just a choice you make when deciding what your character looks like.

That said, I can see a debuff or mez power with a visual effect of removing a target character's weaponry. ^_^

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Avatar courtesy of Satellite Nine.

Millennium City Refugee

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 44 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Sweet_Miss_Skaldi wrote:
Sweet_Miss_Skaldi wrote:

Terlin,
I am throwing lots of ideas around, I would want a game as versatile as the many I have mentioned and do you not think it's limiting if they go entirely with that route? It seems to me like you are saying that non-powered heroes like Punisher, Van Helsing, Halo, Black Widow, Mocking Bird, Gimmick the Gadget, Dr. Who, Mad Max, Ninja, and all of the Agents working at SHIELD will have no place as heroes in CoT? Isn't that more excluding a more versatile base than bringing it in?

Well, there's a good bit of hyperbole in that paragraph--intended, I hope. I think it's obvious that they are NOT saying that, and I don't see how it could even seem like it. CoH had tons of such heroes and didn't have the mechanic you are referencing at all.

Of course versatility is good, and if this can be done easily enough, GREAT! I'm all for it. Who wouldn't be?

But, if to do it we'd need to make the underlying game mechanics more complex in a way that makes the entire game harder to manage and develop? Not worth it for one cute effect IMO-YMMV :P.

My 2 inf, no more, no less.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Felix
Felix's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/04/2013 - 20:45
As a member of the gameplay

As a member of the gameplay team, I have 2 comments about this.

Comment 1, as a spiritual successor to the other game, we want to keep as much flavor as possible, and so we like the idea of powers being a part of you.

Comment 2 is about pragmatism. One of my biggest responsibilities and concerns is balance, and so, first of all, how much is it worth to a power for it to be disarm-able? The answer depends on how hard it will be to rearm. And then, we would have to provide a rearming mechanic, and a lot of adjustments to scenes and plot lines to allow for it.

Now, I am far from the decider, but I don't think the return on investment is high enough, even though I think the idea has interesting thematic possibilities.

All of the comments here are my personal opinion.

Felix

Know thy users, for they are not you.
"Preliminary optimization is the root of all evil." -Knuth
Coding Lead
a.k.a. Mr Sigma, Mr. Stochastic, Balancing Act, The Oncoming Storm

Terlin
Terlin's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 05:00
Sweet_Miss_Skaldi wrote:
Sweet_Miss_Skaldi wrote:

Terlin,
I am throwing lots of ideas around, I would want a game as versatile as the many I have mentioned and do you not think it's limiting if they go entirely with that route? It seems to me like you are saying that non-powered heroes like Punisher, Van Helsing, Halo, Black Widow, Mocking Bird, Gimmick the Gadget, Dr. Who, Mad Max, Ninja, and all of the Agents working at SHIELD will have no place as heroes in CoT? Isn't that more excluding a more versatile base than bringing it in?

Well, this is more in Felix's realm than mine.

From my personal point of view, I equate the term "Power" with any ability, meta-power, skill, and equipment that affects the character it belongs to, other characters and NPC's, and the environment. That covers everything from raw strength to weapons to weather-control abilities. So, I don't see a limiter for character concepts by viewing these as powers. I've made my share of "unpowered" characters using systems that worked in the same way.

-

Terlin

The Bullpen

Godling
Godling's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 11 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 13:28
Felix wrote:
Felix wrote:

What are your characters powers? And how much money are we talking here?
*grin*
Felix

Inspiration for new character Video Gamer

Dr. Iron Monger: You Fool! That armor was the source of powers it will cost me millions to replace.

Video Gamer: Oh! Dude! You got robbed. I spent 25 cents to get my powers and I got to play a wicked cool video game too.

Pyromantic
Pyromantic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 31 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 08:20
All of this sounds very

All of this sounds very interesting and makes me curious to try the game. I have a few questions, the answers to which I hope I haven't simply missed.

How much of a process do you foresee being involved in slotting a power augment? One of the concerns I would have is that switching becomes too mechanically easy and rewarding, such that a consistent character concept comes at the expense of power. If, for example, "psychic" damage is more beneficial than "fire" damage in some situations, but the opposite is true in others, it might make sense to switch out your power augment for the duration of a story arc, mission or even (at the most extreme) a particular boss fight. I also wonder if it becomes a kind of "concept tax" in which I have to go through a process of earning power augments because my concept does not match the core assumption of the power set (if there is such a thing). So, for example, psychic dual blades requires a lot of effort, while slashing dual blades requires none. This may well be intentional of course and I suppose there are questions of economic viability at work; I just wonder if such a situation leads to the inevitable sense that psychic dual blades are "better" than slashing, a potential slippery slope.

As far as I have seen the examples of power augments so far have all been about damage type conversion. Will they serve other purposes as well? Could power augments change, for example, the type of control effects that powers apply (hold, sleep etc. in CoX terms)? Or other broad aspects of a power set's functionality?

Taken together, I wonder advantages and disadvantages are considered in having power augments to be an item of sorts as opposed to a character creation decision, that may become an integral part of the character's identity. If powers are in essence attached to characters rather than gear, where is the distinction drawn between power and enhancements of that power?

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 47 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Hi Pyromantic, the Damage

Hi Pyromantic, the Damage Type Converter is but one example of a Power Set Augment we hope to implement, there will be others. The more options that become available will of course play into what may be best for a build. One of the things we specifically discussed avoiding is replacing effects of powers via a PSA. Converting damage isn't replacing one effect over another as all the types of damage ultimately achieve the same result; damaging health. Other effects have different results and while our system may handle how to say convert one effect to another, we wouldn't want to end up with a monicker of say City of Holds because it was considered the most advantageous effect - this is pure example purposes only. We place more weight on what thematic effects a power set uses and intend to offer a wide variety of sets that cover a wider variety of themes and thus carry a uniqueness in what the power sets does and how it does what it does.

While we haven't settled on one specific method for removal / replacement of Augs and Refs, I can say that we are aware of both a desire foe the method to be simple, while at the same time require consideration. To make it too easy like say, simply drop another Aug to swap, could turn situations like PvP into a click feat of not just what powers to use but what Augs to constantly swap around trying to get an advantage, this could be detrimental to the feel we want for PvP to have.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Godling
Godling's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 11 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 13:28
What brings us to one of two

What brings us to one of two choices a workstation like Cox.

Or we speak to Angelic psychic mutant cosmic magitek cybernetic demon ninja vampire gunbunnies.

Sweet_Miss_Skaldi
Sweet_Miss_Skaldi's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/25/2014 - 06:01
hi again!

hi again!

I lost my comments twice now it seems. So I'll try to bring them together again.

On the UI system, I was looking at it and thinking would it not be best perhaps to arrange the triangles of the same power in a dial shape so that each triangle appears to visually connect with that portion. or perhaps as a sliced hexagon or heptagon or even a sliced circle like a pizza-pie which now that I think of this might be more cool, although harder to program. So you would have the full slice option when you drag your first augment into it. It would fill the entire pizza pie, then when you drag a second augment into it, your pizza pie becomes cut in half and 2 different colors, then a 3rd augment, your pizza-pie is cut into 3rds, 4th augment into quarters, 5th augment into 5 piece, 6th augment into 6 piece.

OR.

Have the pieces of the 'pie' or hex or hept greyed out as many as are available for the skill augment and then color them in as each new augment is added.

OR.

Do it as a clock dial such as the beastmaster insignia in the person who posted above me, so that the 'up' triangles are on the outside, and the 'down' triangles are on the inside.

OR.

Do it as multiple clock dials such as an inter-connected gear set with internal triangles and external triangles. But then this suggests some more complexity with me in that you might need to choose a specific gear set for your entire circle and stick with it. Such as you might have small triangles, but small triangle gears are only compatible with other triangle type gears, as opposed to flat or square shaped gears which are only compatible with flat or square gears of the same spacing. Not sure if you wanted to think about that level of complexity in skills or not. It might be too frustrating for some players. But then, I'm just going to push this idea a little more and say, if you have all matching gears in your skill set, and I mean matching in terms of they all work together, then maybe some smart players might gain themselves a powered up synergy boost such as faster cooldowns or mana regeneration. Perhaps something like, I use my katana power 8 times, with extra slashing, then this turns the katana gear inside my character a full rotation so suddenly I can short cut the cool down timer on my ultimate jitsu slash, but meanwhile each skill is assigned a gear so let's say the katana chi power is assigned a very small gear, sure I can do it a hundred times but it takes 80 full spins to move the ultimate jitsu slash gear a quarter turn. Now maybe the ultimate jitsu is the biggest gear on the set, but every quarter rotation the jitsu makes then my first katana power cools down. Now I've only outlined 3 skills here but I'm hoping the GM's understand what I'm trying to write.

I suppose someone who has messed around with lego gears might understand what I'm saying

Now I'm going to write about something completely different :)

I was thinking about powers and how they play out in video games, and there is such a world of difference between video games and table top roleplaying games, and the reason for that is a table-top DM can change his mind based on how the quest is going for the players. A computer probably wouldn't and if it did people would assume it was bugged. So I am going to propose something that will probably make every single quest writer throw their hands up at the sky and demand to know why I torture them so. :)

Super-Stats and Super-Charisma
Let's say I put all of my assignable points into charisma, and then I go questing, and I decide to Parlay with the hostiles. The hostiles look upon my awesome beauty and amazing charismatic speech and let me walk thru completely unbothered, I make it to the final boss, have a reasonable conversation about what's been going on and successfully reduce tensions between 2 warring groups, afterward I barter with every single mob I meet in all of the levels. Each time I succeed I gain exp and treasure and positive rep with the group, which I can then use to do other things with.

What I'm suggesting is pretty much an alternative to blasting your way through every level and every quest, it would allow for unparalleled game intricacy depending on how well things go with different groups and how the character decides to interact. Two groups warring over turf? Peace talk them into quietly disarming or talk them down from warring to peaceful protests. (at least when your character is around)

As you gain prestige with different groups new quests become available to you which continue to take you out to other regions and different situations within the game.

Imaginitive young lady looking for clients, talents are imagining the realistic possibilities of practically anything, and applying new technologies to practical applications in all types of business.

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 47 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Sweet Miss, we are looking at

Sweet Miss, we are looking at the UI aspects of the Aug and Ref system, it will be intuitive. One thing we are aiming for is for Augs and Refs to always have distinctive shapes, Augs up, Refs down. They are likely to have colors and symbols to indicate function.

Now about your other idea, while not directly related to this thread, I will derail it slightly to address it. While CoT is not a stat-based game as in having main character stats, it is a powers based game where powers will have aspects. We can make powers that can influence how an NPC reacts to a player character. Every NPC has a faction assigned to it, and every PC has a faction rating that determines how an NPC of a particular faction views that character. We can have powers that affect this faction rating in several different ways. One example would be a Disguise power that makes your character take on the likeness of a particular faction. The writers would have to provide dialogue options for npcs. Particularly those required to complete a plot or story as an alternative to combat, the content designers need the tools to accommodate these alternate methods as well. And we do just so happen to plan for a system for these and other noncombat powers.

We also want to offer different types of play and reward different types of play. The main focus will be direct combat. We hope to offer stealth-like play of various types from sneaking around, to disguising, and talking your way through content. End derail.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Sweet_Miss_Skaldi
Sweet_Miss_Skaldi's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/25/2014 - 06:01
Thank you for taking the time

Thank you for taking the time to answer Tannim222,

A spring board of inspiration for your writers might be found in the online game "Game of Thrones Ascent", factors such as intimidation, offering help, spying, sabotage, stealing, bartering, bribery, and swindling are all available options for players to try out, although such things rarely directly change the chain of events. I imagine figuring out how chains of events might change for an adventurer regularly taking particular actions would be more difficult and requre more time. It takes about 3 to 5 months for an expert gamer to grasp exactly what is going on in the game and how it all works out into the same basic plot, no matter what direction you take on your quest in the end the results are always the same, or close to similiar. The same person is injured, the same people always die no matter what you do, it's always how they die or how they were injured that changes. At times I wish it would change just to give some extra flavor, but then when you have an integral plot change, say someone who was suppose to die earlier, and doesn't then each quest after that, that uses that NPC's death needs to be changed to the alternate outcome of oh, well that one lived and never died, and what that instrumental npc/character does because they didn't die ends up changing your player's quest history and adventure. But then when you start doing that you'd need to be careful, what if they didn't die but lost someone else who was important to them how does that change the NPC's mood and reactions? Do you end up hashtagging each character to trigger the right quests? Then how many hashtags are you going to allow a character to have? Also best to have a hashtag database so writers can keep a handle on what stories they need to write..

Imaginitive young lady looking for clients, talents are imagining the realistic possibilities of practically anything, and applying new technologies to practical applications in all types of business.

Pyromantic
Pyromantic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 31 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 08:20
I appreciate you responding

I appreciate you responding to my post also Tannim222.

I'm having trouble imagining what else power augments would be used for other than damage type. From what you're saying it seems they will only be used to influence aspects of a power that exist in different types. Unless you consider, for example, hold and sleep to be two different types of the same thing (controls), what else in the game will be typed in such a fashion?

The other thing that's unclear to me is what advantages are seen in treating power augments as an in-game object as opposed to existing at the level of character generation. This is tricky because in some cases it might represent an in-world item (such as different types of ammo), and in other cases not (as I would generally expect psychic blades to be). I think it will be abusable unless changing power augments was done at the level of a respec (or whatever equivalent exists). I know you said you can't change primaries through a respec, but I feel these power augments should default to being nearly as character-defining as the primary set itself, and should require the same level of commitment as a respec to change. This would not preclude the possibility of some power sets having access to a power augment metapower, such as an ammo-switching power for a gun set.

It was asked earlier in the thread what we think of having another character make a power augment and send it to a new character, but I think it would be better to have them exist as character creation options, some of which might require an account-wide unlock.

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 47 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Pyromantic, the damage

Pyromantic, the damage converter was but an example of possible Power Set Augments. Other options could include an increase to damage to all the attacks in a set, where as there is now a choice; convert half the damage type, or a flat damage increase. Or a Power Set wide damage proc of the same or different damage type, or a proc of another effect, and so on. Suffice to say, what goes into a Power Set Augment Socket affects all or most of the powers within that set. What goes into that socket is something intended to be earned because multiple options will exist.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Sweet_Miss_Skaldi
Sweet_Miss_Skaldi's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/25/2014 - 06:01
I was reconsidering OP, and I

I was reconsidering OP, and I came up with some new thoughts. The point of my examples are to see if the system is versatile enough to handle different builds or if something should be changed or reconsidered in dev stage.

What if I wanted to throw ice shards at my enemies as a thrown weapon that does slashing damage but then I'd want to augment it with a burning debuff so that I would be dealing burning frostbite damage as an example.

Now let's say I borrow a little from another genre. Let's just say I'm going to make a close-as-I-can Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I choose short melee weapon, wooden dagger and I want to power it up with Super-Strength and that's going to be my only weapon, I might pick up a lot of power augments for it. Could I later choose to fill my next power slot as super-strength passive or always on? Later I would probably want Dexterity and Haste, which would speed up my cooldown timer for my wooden dagger, and Super-dexterity would just let me dodge everything.

One of my favorite M&M first edition characters was Lady Oak Leaf, she was green skinned, photo-synthesis, and she could regenerate wounds during daylight. She started out as a scientist biologist specialist of plants, some gangers raided her lab and she got covered in green goop which granted her powers over the domain of plants. How would plant powers work in game? What about her regeneration in daylight only? If a player opted for a self-limitation say they only regenerated at day, or only at night should that not grant them extra points/powers for voluntarily taking an interesting disability? Okay, sure I was stupid as a player and played right into the hands of the bad guys. She was dead within 5 games, rocket/fireball to the chest. From what I remember of it, she actually decomposed into leaves. But the story went on a little later, I was in my fifth or sixth character by then, and suddenly there she was in a glass chemical tank her body was being used to create a regeneration therapy drug, and the DM went in and saved her. Very awesome DM that went by the name of Halo on Freedom. Then I was allowed to play her again. I was very much more careful. :)

Which brings up another possibility, do you want to maybe include a server or servers where the rules and gameplay are different? Perhaps if you die your dead and you don't come back? or you might need to send in another one of your heroes to complete a rescue mission to recussitate a lost character. Just something different, different thoughts for keeping the game fresh for players. In comics heroes never truly die, they may disappear for a little while.

So now I'm going to talk about Lady Rising Mists, another hero I had in M&M. She became the bearer of Excalibur, one of many the lore in game turned out. She had the powers of the sword and was a water manipulator. In her first adventure when she was introduced Maeve laid down a curse on the city, she summoned up (powers she didn't have yet) for dramatic effect and entrance flooded the entire city and washed Maeve's magic away. She then became a hero of the city killing clockworks, and in times of great need she would bust open a fire hydrant and use it as a water source for her powers. Her powers included being able to teleport limited only to and from bodies of water. Using water to form shapes as if held in by telekinetic boundaries, using water to elevate villians so they couldn't escape, using water to smash through anything that wasn't steel or stone. Using the sword which turned frosty blue and dripped water as a weapon which also had the abilities to cause freezing damage, and ice forming around the blade gave it a finer cutting edge. The exact appearance of the blade would have been close to Frostmourne from The Frozen Throne as everyone knows excalibur is a 2 hander.

I tried to make her in CoH and well, I wasn't very enthused with the success I was told others in CoH had tried it, had petitioned for that sort of thing and that the GM's had pretty much said it required an extensive game code 're-write' to pull off. So I thought it was worth bringing up again :)

Other powers my friends and I discussed yesterday with the new understanding of the system with augments, was the possibility of owning a longbow like Hawkeye's and shooting arrows that turn into fireworks and do pyrotechnic damage, a 2 handed double recurve was mentioned as a wish list item. Another friend wanted to be able to bless vials of holy water and use them as bombs against undead types, and then be able to have a silver holy cross necklace which would emit light as a burning power against the dead. He really wants to play a christian preacher with super-powers against undead types, he also wanted to be able to buff the company and pretty much act like a cleric in DnD but as a superhero version and he wanted to use a crossbow too.

I think I mentioned this before but another friend really, really wanted a 2-D 'cartoony' character in a 3D world, he wanted access to his own cartoony powers, things that would defy the normal laws of physics and gravity such as running into a wall and passing through it to another zone, much like Road Runner does a lot of in the cartoons. A super-sized red and white hammer that's twice the size of his character and would hit like a normal weapon, The ability to inhale a lot of air and fly as a mode of travel. The ability to throw an anvil down into the ground and have it land a few seconds later on the target. He also wanted his own 'hidden' language that only other cartoony characters can read. I thought that one was going a bit far out there. He also wanted to fly around in a saucer as his primary mode of transportation, and he wanted to be able to travel to other planets above the city.

We also discussed riding pets that could have equipable powers to change them up, lizard, horse, umm let's see there was also sheep, someone wanted to be able to equip wings to it and fly it around, same with pigs. 'when pigs fly' ha ha ha. oh and someone wanted to have a cloud with heimdal's rainbow bridge that they could walk or run along in the sky. I think that's enough for now, I'm sure I'll remember more powers from my friend's discussion later.

-edit- oh now I remember what I was thinking, I was actually using a dremel blade steel on steel this morning and it caused a lot of golden sparks to fly in a particular direction and I thought that would be so neat for a super-speedster effect, and I also thought well those flying sparks actually burst after they spark and they fork off into random 3's and 4's which are much smaller but that's what my thought was, nearly forgot it :)

Imaginitive young lady looking for clients, talents are imagining the realistic possibilities of practically anything, and applying new technologies to practical applications in all types of business.

savecityofheroes
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 5 months ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/07/2014 - 02:35
HA?

HA?

Starhammer
Starhammer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 2 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/14/2014 - 20:58
termyt wrote:
termyt wrote:

I also love the line, "The things you make come from what you see and do and think of, not from looting the fallen." Thanks for that. I hate the thought of killing for reward in a Super Hero game. It's fine in adventure games, but super-heroes should not be expected to do that.

Right there with you. Loot has it's place, but it's not in the advancement of power for a super hero. I'm fine with picking up a temp power off a badguy, like maybe getting a Scorpoblaster till it runs out of charge (or it unlocks that type of gun in your creator), or items that might have various uses in other missions... like Frank Castle taking a suitcase full of cash as a souvenir... not x amount of money/credits/resources, but "Suitcase full of cash" that can be used to bait a sting operation or traded to an orphanage in order to unlock a contact. Just no going through enemy pockets for loose change.

The rest sounds pretty good too (except for levels. I despise level based advancement, because eventually you hit max and have no more room to grow, and because self improvement comes a bit at a time... it's not like you go to college, take a bunch of classes, and can't use any of the skills you learn throughout the semester until you ding with a report card. I vastly prefer something more akin to Ultima Online where you do something and with practice you get better at it. Though even UO had a cap, but that could have been done away with by using another layer of diminishing returns) Anyway, that was more of a rant than I planned to express. Still, I like the direction you seem to be taking with power functionality customization. I can't wait to see more, and hope I'll be able to contribute a useful (if not always agreeable) perspective :D

Capt Odee
Capt Odee's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 13 hours ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/16/2013 - 09:34
Stunned I am, at the

Stunned I am, at the forethought into this system of Augments and Refinements of powers. Were I not of advanced age, I'd wish it were late 2015 already.

Capt Odee, saving the city one click at a time.

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
We actually heavily

We actually heavily considered eliminating levels at one point, but there are some considerable design challenges behind that which would change the very character of the game.

So we've stored the concept for the next game we're doing, which will be heavily gear and skill based and, if possible, entirely without levels. And when I say gear based, I mean that in a way that hasn't been done since... well, I used to say Star Wars Galaxies, but Dragon Age Inquisition looks like it's using my same game plan to some degree. Crafters are going to _love_ it.

Again, we're storing notes for a second game, simply because a lot of good ideas just don't work for CoT. So, you know, no sense wasting a good idea. Stick it in the folder, move on. They all assemble into a very, very unique game that'll be a huge challenge, very different from CoT or anything else on the market, but it should be tons of fun.

But CoT comes first, last, and always.

Project Lead

RottenLuck
RottenLuck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 35 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/05/2012 - 20:32
Well glad you guys are

Well glad you guys are thinking ahead as well. Some time ago I posted an idea about a second game. or third, fourth... eventually. Similar thought of a no level system heavy on skills and crafting gear. My idea is to get the top gear you would need to work with someone (more than one someone hopefully) to encourage teamwork. The top skills would be Master class skills and you can only take one as your master. So you have say a Master Hunter who can take down the big beasts with ease, a Master Crafter to turn the kill harvest into leather armor and other goodies, and a Master Builder to build the fortress stronghold they live in. But the Builder wouldn't be able to tackle the Big beast at least not alone. Nor would the Master Hunter could craft the finest Armor. So on and so forth. It is Missing WORLDS Media afterall... What were we talking about?

Oh yeah loving the argument system idea! Can't wait to plan out my build!

--------------------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP

Godling
Godling's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 11 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 13:28
Actually there is one thing,

Actually there is one thing, that has been untouched. I am surprised it went this far.
Will there be an automatic Augment slot assigned to each power?

CoH had this and it made a player market on certain Enhancements that there would never be as big of a player market.

Plexius
Plexius's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 06/15/2014 - 04:58
Godling wrote:
Godling wrote:

Actually there is one thing, that has been untouched. I am surprised it went this far.
Will there be an automatic Augment slot assigned to each power?
CoH had this and it made a player market on certain Enhancements that there would never be as big of a player market.

This is a great question! The default enhancement slot was important, especially in the age of IO's. Now that you bring it up, I certainly think I took it for granted in CoH, and it's barely been mentioned in this thread.

For many powers, you could have thrown a proc in that slot, or a single-attribute enhancement to boost its accuracy or recharge or whatever. You're absolutely right in that some enhancements---probably procs in particular---wouldn't have had as much value without having been such an obvious choice to fill a default enhancement slot.

Doctor Tyche
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 48 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
The plan is for every power

The plan is for every power to include an augment slot by default, yes.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

vladko92
vladko92's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 02/18/2015 - 21:34
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

The plan is for every power to include an augment slot by default, yes.

Who is the lead for powers?

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 47 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
vladko92 wrote:
vladko92 wrote:

Who is the lead for powers?

There isn't a lead at the moment. We have an entire team with different assignments. Myself and another dev did the early work on design net the power set templates and initial power set concepts. Then we moved onto the frame work for power design which went through several revisions until yet another dev was able to organize the chaos and put together the initial layout for all the subsystems and mechanics for the powers frame work. Another dev then went and further refined all the math for the various mechanics so that everything as a whole works for the game. Then ran (and will continue to run) simulations to make sure we have our initial bounds of performance within acceptable limits.

With this we have a power design tool that will be plugged into the templates to allow us to create enite sets for npcs, pcs, and pets (each has their own template). The next step was then to go back over the initial concepts, determine which ones we will use for launch, and revise them with the updated mechanics designed in pre-development. We are now in post development which means we are in the stages of creating / inputting all this foundation stuff within the game with / through the engine.

So no one person is the person for powers, but I'll be happy to try and answer any questions you may have, though I'll be up front and state that I can't get into specifics. This is either due to stuff still being tested and therefore uncertain as to whether it's even worth bringing up or we can't talk about yet (everything in due time).


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
EliteKaos
EliteKaos's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 days ago
Joined: 08/13/2015 - 23:17
What im getting from this is

What im getting from this is that every character will need a weapon? You cant just be a fire/fire blaster? Or a ss/fire brute.. you gotta have some sort of weapon such as fire can go with a sword but can also be fired from my characters hand or a wand or whatever the weapon is?

Veteran of City of Heroes

-Elite

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 31 min 28 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
No, but the characters of

No, but the characters of players who want to play characters with weapons will need weapons. ^_^

Characters without weapons will have to settle for having their powers emanating from body parts. Characters with weapons will be able to have the same powers emanating from the weapon instead. Or not, as the player decides.

What I'm hoping is that it will be easy to switch; so that if fish people attack the library while Hypatia Argyros is working there, she can cast spells with her hands, but if she gets a call as Goldenrod, she'll have her staff and can cast spells through it.

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Avatar courtesy of Satellite Nine.

Millennium City Refugee

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 7 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
The current plan is to have

The current plan is to have selected animations and weapons associated with costume slots, so yeah, shouldn't be an issue.

And Foradain is right - if you want weapons, you use your powers through the weapons. If not? Pick somewhere. Eyes, fists, feet, mouth...

Project Lead

Zerohour
Zerohour's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 12:28
Where's the link to this

Where's the link to this update? I never got the email and I can't find it in the announcements forum

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 34 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
The post in the Announcements

The post in the Announcements forum is here and the update on the Kickstarter page is here.

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Zerohour
Zerohour's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 12:28
Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

The post in the Announcements forum is here and the update on the Kickstarter page is here.

Thanks for the links!

I didn't look down far enough in the forum. Wasn't expecting it to be down there. Wonder why I didn't get the notification that it was up in the first place?

This update made me feel excitement for the first time in a while. Can't wait to see more of this stuff!

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

Shadow Elusive
Shadow Elusive's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 17 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/10/2013 - 09:38
Thanks for the links!

Thanks for the links!
I didn't look down far enough in the forum. Wasn't expecting it to be down there. Wonder why I didn't get the notification that it was up in the first place?
This update made me feel excitement for the first time in a while. Can't wait to see more of this stuff!

This is an old update Zero, it went out a year ago. That's why. You just missed it way back then. If you were looking for it recently you'd have to scroll way down for it.

--------------------------

Community Manager
notears
notears's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 5 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/04/2013 - 17:24
(No subject)

TitansCity
TitansCity's picture
Online
Last seen: 26 sec ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 02:09
As i am translating this news

As i am translating this news, i wonder what warcabit means when he talks about the Mids ?
Does this news still correct or si there some modifications since then ?

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 15 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

As i am translating this news, i wonder what warcabit means when he talks about the Mids ?

So are you asking what Mids' was? There used to be a third-party player created application called Mids' Hero Designer that let players of CoH plan the builds of their characters. It would let you see all the numbers and effects of plugging in any enhancements into all your powers so that you could design your characters to be as strong as the game would allow. Many players who were serious about "min/maxing" their characters used Mids' to figure out what enhancements they needed to get in the game.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

TitansCity
TitansCity's picture
Online
Last seen: 26 sec ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 02:09
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

TitansCity wrote:
As i am translating this news, i wonder what warcabit means when he talks about the Mids ?
So are you asking what Mids' was? There used to be a third-party player created application called Mids' Hero Designer that let players of CoH plan the builds of their characters. It would let you see all the numbers and effects of plugging in any enhancements into all your powers so that you could design your characters to be as strong as the game would allow. Many players who were serious about "min/maxing" their characters used Mids' to figure out what enhancements they needed to get in the game.

Thanks Lothic ! I remeber that but i didn't know it was called "Mids" ^^

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 15 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

Lothic wrote:
TitansCity wrote:
As i am translating this news, i wonder what warcabit means when he talks about the Mids ?
So are you asking what Mids' was? There used to be a third-party player created application called Mids' Hero Designer that let players of CoH plan the builds of their characters. It would let you see all the numbers and effects of plugging in any enhancements into all your powers so that you could design your characters to be as strong as the game would allow. Many players who were serious about "min/maxing" their characters used Mids' to figure out what enhancements they needed to get in the game.
Thanks Lothic ! I remeber that but i didn't know it was called "Mids" ^^

Yeah I guess there was an actual person named Mids who created that planner application.
Everyone just called it Mids' for short.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

TitansCity
TitansCity's picture
Online
Last seen: 26 sec ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 02:09
Maybe we could have ii with

Maybe we could have ii with the character creator ? :) I don't know if someone decided to make this designer for CoT…

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 15 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

Maybe we could have ii with the character creator ? :) I don't know if someone decided to make this designer for CoT…

It's always possible that MWM could create their own build planner and include it as part of the game. But what I suspect will happen is that some enterprising player(s) will go off and create their own build planner (like Mids') that will become the main one that everyone ends up using for CoT.

There's no real reason why MWM needs to create it when I'm sure there will be plenty of third-party desire for someone to make one for themselves. Frankly I'd rather the MWM Devs keep working on the game itself instead of support tools that others could just as easily write for them. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 32 min 53 sec ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Well, however we get a Build

Well, however we get a Build Planner, it would be useful to be able to attach a build-file to a character, so that, when leveling, you'd get a message saying that your build-plan wants you to have 'choice x' next and, if you confirm it, then your character gets that slot/power/thing. One of the roughest parts of a respec in CoH, at least for me, was trying to translate the 'plan' into the online build. "Now, wait, what level did I put this slot here?"

Be Well!
Fireheart

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 15 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Well, however we get a Build Planner, it would be useful to be able to attach a build-file to a character, so that, when leveling, you'd get a message saying that your build-plan wants you to have 'choice x' next and, if you confirm it, then your character gets that slot/power/thing. One of the roughest parts of a respec in CoH, at least for me, was trying to translate the 'plan' into the online build. "Now, wait, what level did I put this slot here?"

Yeah the big problem I remember was the people who'd respec a level 50 character using Mids' but they wouldn't account for the possibility of ever being exemplared down to a level less than 50. You could assign all your slots semi-randomly and it'd all work seamlessly as long as you stayed at level 50. But as soon as you shifted down to another level you could be totally gimped because various critical enhancement slots would be shut off.

What could be useful (if having a in-game pop-up isn't possible) is having a "level notepad" saved into the build files that would let you record (maybe with a short sentence each) a record of each thing you changed/added at each level so that you could go back a recreate a character level-by-level if necessary. It could be something like the following:

    Level 1 - add power X
    Level 2 - add slot to power Y
    Level 3 - add power Z
    ...

and so on where the bolded words are the things you typed in to remind yourself how to "rebuild" the character.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Pyromantic
Pyromantic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 31 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 08:20
Actually, that wasn't how

Actually, that wasn't how exemplaring worked in CoH. It didn't matter when you placed the slots, either during levelling or if you did a respec. If you exemplared down, the total enhancement on a power was scaled down according to a formula.

Exemplar effects on enhancements.

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 53 sec ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Well, however we get a Build Planner, it would be useful to be able to attach a build-file to a character, so that, when leveling, you'd get a message saying that your build-plan wants you to have 'choice x' next and, if you confirm it, then your character gets that slot/power/thing. One of the roughest parts of a respec in CoH, at least for me, was trying to translate the 'plan' into the online build. "Now, wait, what level did I put this slot here?"
Be Well!
Fireheart

Sounds like a third party thing you could get and use on WoW. There was a bunch of things that helped quality of life stuff. Even an RP overlay that you could put a ton of info about your character in.

I wonder if CoT will allow for third party things like that.

TitansCity
TitansCity's picture
Online
Last seen: 26 sec ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 02:09
If a third party would like

If a third party would like to devellop this kind of thing, i cant lend some space on my website (BDD, a subdomain, etc) :) It could be translated as well :)
I could help to develop that but i'm not very strong !

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 15 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Pyromantic wrote:
Pyromantic wrote:

Actually, that wasn't how exemplaring worked in CoH. It didn't matter when you placed the slots, either during levelling or if you did a respec. If you exemplared down, the total enhancement on a power was scaled down according to a formula.

I'm not talking about what the game did to you WHILE you were exemplared - I'm talking about if you respec'd yourself and didn't bother to intelligently plan out which powers you got at specific levels. As long as you stayed at level 50 you'd always have access to all your powers so it technically didn't matter when you "chose" those powers during your respec. But if you exemplared down you might find yourself lacking key powers at specific levels making your exemplared character almost totally unplayable.

Clearly you confused "enhancements" for "powers". Obviously when you choose the order of your powers during a respec that would ALSO dictate when you got certain enhancements slots from level to level.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 15 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Fireheart wrote:
Well, however we get a Build Planner, it would be useful to be able to attach a build-file to a character, so that, when leveling, you'd get a message saying that your build-plan wants you to have 'choice x' next and, if you confirm it, then your character gets that slot/power/thing. One of the roughest parts of a respec in CoH, at least for me, was trying to translate the 'plan' into the online build. "Now, wait, what level did I put this slot here?"
Be Well!
Fireheart
Sounds like a third party thing you could get and use on WoW. There was a bunch of things that helped quality of life stuff. Even an RP overlay that you could put a ton of info about your character in.
I wonder if CoT will allow for third party things like that.

I would actually doubt it - it would require the third party app to have "hooks" into the game while it's running. While I'm sure you could name plenty of other games that allowed for that CoH never did so there's no automatic reason to think CoT will allow it either.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 53 sec ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
It'd be nice to have though.

It'd be nice to have though. Speaking for myself I'd love to have something similar to the RP one I used on WoW. You could put things into an "at a glance" slot and it'd tell people some info about your character that you wanted folks to know.

In CoX when I wrote bios for my characters I'd always put in RP notes which were pretty similar to these at a glance things. Things like what folks with various super senses could detect. It'd just be nice to have either in the base game or as an add-on.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 15 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

It'd be nice to have though. Speaking for myself I'd love to have something similar to the RP one I used on WoW. You could put things into an "at a glance" slot and it'd tell people some info about your character that you wanted folks to know.

In CoX when I wrote bios for my characters I'd always put in RP notes which were pretty similar to these at a glance things. Things like what folks with various super senses could detect. It'd just be nice to have either in the base game or as an add-on.

Who knows - MWM might allow for things like that. I'm just saying it would probably be safer to assume things like that won't happen and be pleasantly surprised if they do rather than expect them to happen and be upset when they don't. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 min 53 sec ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Yeah, that's true. But you

Yeah, that's true. But you never know if a Dev's going to see a post and say "hmm that's a good idea!" So it's best to get an idea out there and then don't expect anything to happen with it.

Pyromantic
Pyromantic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 31 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 08:20
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Clearly you confused "enhancements" for "powers". Obviously when you choose the order of your powers during a respec that would ALSO dictate when you got certain enhancements slots from level to level.

I'm not sure why you're saying clearly I confused enhancements for powers given that what you actually said was "as soon as you shifted down to another level you could be totally gimped because various critical enhancement slots would be shut off."

You were also responding to Fireheart talking about trying to figure out at which level enhancement slots went into which powers when respeccing. It didn't matter what level they went in.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 15 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Pyromantic wrote:
Pyromantic wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Clearly you confused "enhancements" for "powers". Obviously when you choose the order of your powers during a respec that would ALSO dictate when you got certain enhancements slots from level to level.
I'm not sure why you're saying clearly I confused enhancements for powers given that what you actually said was "as soon as you shifted down to another level you could be totally gimped because various critical enhancement slots would be shut off."
You were also responding to Fireheart talking about trying to figure out at which level enhancement slots went into which powers when respeccing. It didn't matter what level they went in.

I can only assume you never got around to respec'ing too many level 50 characters. If you did it without planning exactly at which levels you reselected BOTH powers and enhancement slots you could seriously gimp your character if you ever decided to exemplar down to specific levels.

Think about it: If you took your level 50 and exemplared down to say level 30 you would lose access to all the 31-50 level powers and potentially lose all the IO set benefits of any of those shutoff powers. So yes it COULD VERY MUCH MATTER which "various critical enhancement slots would be shut off" if you didn't plan carefully.

Here's a quote from the link you provided earlier. I'll highlight the portion of it that makes it clear that the level the power is taken during a respec matters:

Quote:

Set Bonuses are always on, even if the power in which the Set is slotted isn't activated, and even if that power is greyed out due to exemplaring! However, you do start to lose the bonuses if you exemplar more than three levels under the level of the IOs in the Set.

Not sure why you're arguing about this when you provided the proof I needed to show that planning during respec'ing VITALLY MATTERED if you actually cared about exemplaring afterwards.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Pyromantic
Pyromantic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 31 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 08:20
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

snip...

Lothic, the part you just quoted actually says that what level you took the power at has no effect on whether or not you kept set bonuses. It has nothing to do with the level at which you took the power or the level at which you placed the slots.

It has to do with the level of the enhancements themselves.

Pages