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Discussion : The Ultimate Superhero

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Criminus
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Discussion : The Ultimate Superhero

Now I'll be the first to admit, I aint read alot of comics, I could probably count them on my fingers and toes, but, I am a cartoon junkie, and boy do I love the superhero genre.

So the thought arrises, what makes for a successful superhero?

Lets look at the big hitters. Years ago you would have got three answers. Superman, Batman, Spiderman.
Nowadays, you can shoehorn Wolverine into that list (lets face it, the three x-men films where about logan, followed by the ONLY x-men origins film, then a followup to X3, and even 'days of future past' is all from his perspective. They even dropped him into 'first class').
Who else. Iron man and Captain America and Thor, together with the rest of the avengers. We have a Hulk.
I would mention Green Lantern, even though I love that film, everyone else seams to hate it.

What are the common threads.
No psychic powers?

All the talents seam to be physical, obvious, direct. Nothing sneaky like some bald guy in a wheelchair reading your mind. Sure they play supporting roles, but the main hero, even though he might be a nerd, MUST have a jock powerset. Okay, we can make a slight exception for spider sense.

Of course, magic plays a part, but it seams to be limited (if impressive). I'll give three big names.
Loki, Dr Strange, and Shazam/Captain Marvel.
Of those 2, Loki and Shazam stand out.
Loki is due, ill wager, on the amazing talents of his actor.
Shazam was a stroke of genius, the writers played the ultimate trump card and made the reader the superhero, because his alter ego is a young boy, who with the use of a magic word, becomes big and strong, can pound the school bullies into oblivion, and throw bolts of lightning around. No wonder he out-sold Supes, also no-wonder DC had Shazam impounded, and eventually bought the rights to the character, and had him play second fiddle to Supes. Butt hurt much DC?

But the powers and skills are only one side of the story. There is the characters appearance (including gender, and bosom reavealing costumes, I'm looking at you power girl). Just as important is the characters personality and origin. It has to be compelling, it has to inspire emotion.
Superman, an orphan, last of his species (well not quite).
Batman, an orphan who watched his parents die at the hands of a mugger.
Spiderman, responsible for leting the guy go that killed his uncle.
Iron Man, mega rich tycoon with all the jet planes and hookers money can buy...okay this one doesnt fit pattern.

But you get the idea.
So how would you create the ultimate superhero? and where do you start?
Do you begin with powers, or the origin story.
And remember, no matter how much defence you give your character, you can have 100% invulnerability with regeneration and internal life support, no weaknesses, and massive sexual organs...if you dont inspire your readers, you wont sell comics and films, and then you get CANCELLED.

So, you sexy inventive people, does anyone have an ultimate superhero?

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Empyrean
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WARNING: Boring answer

WARNING: Boring answer

I think you kind of said it already. 1) Average person becomes 2) hyperbole of the currently held social standards of physical perfection 3) for interesting but over-the-top sci-fi/fantasy reason 4) with an element of tragedy. Pick at least three out of those four, throw in a quirky signature power/weapon or two (wall crawling, heat vision, a golden lasso, magic lightning, indestructable shield), ad three colors in a nice, clean pattern and voila.

After that it's all about the writing.

It's like a haiku or a rock song- simple and formulaic, but oh, the truly wonderful things you can do with it. Sometimes there's a reason a formula becomes a formula.

PS- OH! And before you start busting out the Hulk, Swamp Thing, and Batman on me, remember, I said 3 out of the 4. Try that on them and see what you get. I loves me my monster/heroes.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Criminus
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Ahh, the magic (no pun

Ahh, the magic (no pun intended) ingredient. Hyperbole!
You know, thats almost a good name for a superhero, I wish I'd thought of it for the silly superhero thread.
Follow the adventures of Hyperbole, the worlds most exaggerated superhero! (I'm looking at you now Sentry, 'power of a million exploding suns' my arse)

But lets get down to this. Between the discussion of terms, we could actually create a forum superhero (or even villain, or anti hero).
I suggest the following headings:- Original form. Super origin. Personality. Powers/Skills.
Each and any of us can add or subtract from the description, modyfying it bit by bit. Any hyperbole must be labelled as such.
If you have wildly different ideas, you can begen the formation of another hero. This is all open for discussion.
And remember, this must be made with one warning, if it wouldnt sell comics, it would get CANCELLED! (horror of horrors)

Original Form
Name : Curse DragonBorn. Usually goes by the name Kirsty.
Female. 5'9". White hair, green eyes. Slim, appears almost fragile. Appears to be between 20-25.

Super Origin.
Her father is a hell demon, her mother a giant red dragon. Although the child of two great powers, Curse was born in human form. The natural powers of the child would have kept all harm away, and thus hampered the dragons hunting, so days after the birth, the dragon gave the child to a nearby village saying "this is my curse". Th village raised the girl reluctanty, out of fear of the dragon. They treated Curse like a slave. However, every night, Curse was visited in her dreams by her father (the demon), who instructed her in many arts and skills. At the age of 15, he unlocked Curse's power. She was then able to escape the village (by killing them all), and has wandered the multiverse ever since.

Personality.
Curse is lively, flirty, and maybe a little shy. She is also insatiably curious. If her childhood is raised, she can go a little quiet, 15 years of abuse made her visit horrific deaths upon many hundred people, and she is sorry for that. She does believe in goodness and justice, for she has seen hell in her dreams and knows the consequences. Only rarely is she stern or serious.

Powers.
Curse originally had a magic power that was locked in the form of protection, making all predators subconsciously travel elseware, this covered many miles. At the age of 15, this power was unlocked by her hellish father. Curse can manifest any power within the boundaries of her will, and can maintain upto 7 effects at once. This can inlude crossing dimensions, summoning elements, flight, transformations, etc etc. Consider this to be 'psionic sorcery' or 'reality manipulation'.

So there ya go, feel free to add, subtract, modify, etc, or make something new, while we also discuss what actually makes 'the ultimate superhero'.

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Sand_Trout
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I view the successful

I view the successful superheroes from a more abstract perspective.

Powers of a superhero are, from my perspective, less important than the character traits that those powers enable to stand out, and the most consistently popular super-powered characters follow an archetypal ideal. Many popular heroes don't even have superpowers, or their superpowers are only adequate to allow them to confront the extreme dangers they face and survive without seeming contrived. Batman has no superhuman powers, Spiderman is strong, but is actually out-muscled by Kingpin, Wolverine's only actual "power" is his ability to heal from anything. Superman, who is absurdly powerful, doesn't come close to the popularity of any of those 3.

Heroes achieve enduring popularity by representing the same things that Heroes have always represented: Ideals of character and ability. In modern times, character is the more important of the two.

Batman's fulfills the character archetype of the Knight. He is wealthy and martially skilled, and that wealth and skill goes toward the pursuit of justice and the protection of the defenseless. To add to this, he has a fixed moral code which he does not break for anyone. Regardless of weather you agree with the actions of a particular iteration's Batman, if he's done well, you are left unable to [i]not[/i] respect him for holding to his code in his own actions. He's not known as "The Dark Knight" for nothing.

Spiderman is actually both the Everyman and the Nerd. While he has powers, and wants to do the right thing, he is constantly struggling to make ends meet due to his self-adopted duties, and the "The Man" (represented by Jonah Jameson) is usually trying to keep him down and overall screwing him over. Addtionally, Peter Parker is a huge Nerd, and that is, in some cases, a far more important "power" than his strength, agility, or wall-walking. Remember that he invented the web-shooters. This togeather makes Spiderman the most relatible of any super-hero, and is the empowered audience surrogate.

Wolverine is the Berserker with enough Anti-Hero to keep from crossing over the moral event horizon. He's tough, gruff, and generally doesn't give a crap. Granted, he can heal through most any damage you can throw at him, but he can and, more importantly, [i]absolutely will[/i] keep coming if you piss him off enough. The best way to piss him off? Hurt a bunch of innocent people and/or his few friends. Wolverine represents the raging, righteous fury that we've all wanted to dish out at some point in our lives when we witness some willful act of blatant evil. Sometimes our moral outrage leaves no room for thoughts of "mercy" for the perpetrator, and out instinctive side cries out for violence; this is Wolverine.

Superman, in all honesty, is the Messiah. He is litterally not of this world, though he clothes himself in it's trappings. His motives and methods are generally pure as the wind-blown snow, and his raw power outclasses virtually anyone in the entire DC universe, with only a handful of entities that even pose a physical challenge to him. They have to include Kryptonite just to provide plot tension more than half the time any more.

Captain America is the Patriot. The patriot can theoretically apply to any nation, but in this case, he is the epitome of American ideals, if not an accurate representation of the state of the nation in actuality. This is most obvious when his character opposes the actions of the American government when it violates the principals of democracy, liberty and equality. Captain America is a character that reminds readers of the values embodied in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, even when the people around him falter towards tyranny.

Hyperbole is important, as stated earlier in the thread, but it much more important to first establish what ideal you are going to apply the hyperbole to. When making a great superhero, it's important to understand what character archetype you are creating, and how to tell the story of the character to give an audience something to idealize. Flaws are important for grounding a character, but don't flaw the ideal, flaw the other aspects of the character, or else you risk crippling the Heroic aspects of the story.

Sic Semper Tyrannis

Izzy
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Sand_Trout wrote:
Sand_Trout wrote:

Many popular heroes don't even have superpowers, or their superpowers are only adequate to allow them to confront the extreme dangers they face and survive without seeming contrived. Batman has no superhuman powers, ... Superman, who is absurdly powerful, doesn't come close to the popularity of any of those ...

No wonder people are frantic to see a Batman Vs Superman flick! ;)

Lord Nightmare
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I thought the ultimate

I thought the ultimate superhero was [url=http://youtu.be/rNeV0hU3ZSY?t=4m35s]this guy[/url]

NSFW.. or those easily offended.

[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]

Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]

Sand_Trout
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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

No wonder people are frantic to see a Batman Vs Superman flick! ;)

I honestly think that has more to do with the quality of the recent movies related to the characters than the popularity of the characters themselves. The most recent Batman and Superman movies were exceptionally well done.

I'm actually not all that excited about the movie, but I also have years of disappointment calluses over my hype-nerves.

Sic Semper Tyrannis