This is something I wrote in a comment in another thread, but I think asking every character to defeat the boss to win a battle breaks immersion and defeats the ability to solo. I think CoH/V was getting the right idea toward the end, but I'd like to see this expanded.
For example, what if my goal isn't to destroy a boss, but to break into a warehouse and find a specific gang-member because he's the one who has the information I need? How about, I need to find a stash of information that could be hiding in a toilet or in a hollow in the wall? I also think there's some majesty in being able to complete a mission without ever being seen (like in Deus Ex HR) and maybe there should be experience bonuses for that.
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This summarizes my hopes and dreams for CoT. Check it out if you'd like.
I think I understand where you're coming from. Having secondary mission objectives allows your character to feel more complex and "alive" instead of being just another generic combat machine. For instance, specializing in stealth could allow you to infiltrate enemy defenses to discreetly undermine them, or specializing in gathering information might allow you to avoid a battle. In other words, you could fulfill the goals of the mission without having to knock heads at every corner or pick a fight that you're not built to handle.
I think this would be great for soloing. If the big boss would be too much trouble for you, perhaps there could be another way to get the information you need from him. There is an element of style in getting the job done with finesse and cunning instead of brute force.
I can think of a few ways to express this:
[list]
[*] [b]Sabotage[/b] - Planting bombs and wrecking infrastructures
[*] [b]Intelligence[/b] - Stealing documents and following paper trails
[*] [b]Deception[/b] - Acquiring misplaced trust to spread chaos and cause disasters
[*][b]Disguise[/b] - Attacking from the inside under the guise of the enemy's allies
[/list]
It seems like these kind of themes are often woven into story arcs but not used as an alternate means of satisfying mission objectives. It would be neat to see these kinds of themes as a viable approach to completing content.
Then again, as a game with a strong focus on superpowered action, maybe these things are best left to Metal Gear Solid and other such games.
I was going to climb onto my soapbox about secondary objectives in team settings and cheapening the game experience via the path of least resistance, but that's probably a debate for another thread. I think there is something to be said for stealthing every mission and skipping past mobs though.
[url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/618310]I love Instanced Content.[/url]
[url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/636850]Missions Without Minions.[/url]
[url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/642943]Choose Your Own Adventure.[/url]
[url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/650323]Missions Without Contacts.[/url]
Discuss.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Thanks for highlighting those articles, Darth Fez. It looks like the devs are way ahead of us on this. The Missions Without Minions article in particular speaks to some of the variety that I had in mind.
I've already shared some particular ideas regarding non-combat objectives, so I'll let others jump in with their thoughts.
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This summarizes my hopes and dreams for CoT. Check it out if you'd like.
Thanks for the links! I'll check them out.
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This summarizes my hopes and dreams for CoT. Check it out if you'd like.
Well dang. Link #1 pretty much covers it doesn't it?
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This summarizes my hopes and dreams for CoT. Check it out if you'd like.
Yep, one of the many things that has me really excited about CoT.
Also, it would give me a retort when my gf comes in, looks at the screen to see whatever game I happen to be playing, and says dismissively, "It's just fighting."
Spurn all ye kindle.
I think if even one fourth of this makes it into the game at some point, not even necessarily upon release, but at some point. Then CoT Would have achieved it's goal of being a spiritual successor to CoH. If nothing else it's at least the next stage of development for the game, a more advanced and in depth look at how to go about completing missions.
Love is like a Rhino, short-sighted and hasty; If it cannot find it a way, it will make a way.
-Flavor text on Crash of Rhinos.
Simply being able to have "standard" alternative victory conditions in addition to the usual Defeat All victory conditions would be an improvement. Things like [b]Deal No Damage[/b] and [b]Took No Damage[/b] for stealth missions, to support the playstyle of the Stalker Archetype ... or ... Secret Identity Infiltration(!). That way it isn't JUST about doing damage to everything in sight.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Bonus XP at end of mission for No Defeats? :D
oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooh! Or bonus drops. I would LOVE that. I always liked to play by considering being defeated as a defeat, not a "pfft, whatever, that didn't happen".
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Or... maybe get an Achievement for 100 consecutive missions done without a defeat. But if you do get defeated.. it -1 from your current tally. Ex: you did 50 missions without being defeated, but die on 51.. now your Achievement Tally is 49. :(
Any of those. Any of that. I don't care, just make the game that I like to play with myself--not being defeated--be something I can actually choose to be part of the game.
It should be a choice or at least easily ignored for those who don't like to play the way I do--which is probably most people. For example, people should be able to pick OTHER criteria for xp/drop boosts.
Though, come to think of it, DEBT was the "not being defeated" part of the game--at least while leveling. But I'd like for there to be a potential reward for not being defeated even at max level, such as additional drops. Only as one possible choice.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
you get pictures of the boss naked in the shower, and threaten to release them to the internet unless he does your bidding?
i feel sorry for npc bosses.
What a man thinks of himself, that is what determines, or rather indicates, his fate. - Henry David Thoreau
Well, in the City of Heroes context, not Defeating any Foes meant that you would have "skipped over" a huge pool of XP, INF, Inspirations, Enhancement Drops, Salvage and Recipes, simply because you didn't fight anyone. The idea is to "compensate" for this sort of "penalty" imbalance that results from not fighting anything (or anyone) during the mission.
Nah. I'd prefer a sort of "Hardcore Leaderboard" that simply tallied how many Missions your character has completed without being Defeated yourself. When your character gets Defeated, simply reset the counter to zero and start counting upwards again. You can then have Badges for particular "runs" of Undefeated Missions completed consecutively. This information could even be made "public" in the form of an entry in the Character Bio ... Missions Completed Since Last Defeat: ###### ... that will let anyone who looks know just how Hardcore of a Player you are.
I feel sorry for the photographer!
[img]http://paragonwiki.com/w/images//0/0a/Dr_Vahzilok.jpg[/img]
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
We've actually talked about this at earlier stages of development, using different achievements within missions to award various playstyles. When we get to reward metrics, I'm sure it'll be brought up again (beause I have it on my white board so as long as I'm here, it will be brought up). And I'm not the only one on the team who has mentioned something similar.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
It will be difficult to balance the lack of reward drop.
In a mission where there are 40 enemies you have 40 chances of a drop and 40 bad guys worth of XP and $$.
If you do an "Evade All" instead of a "Kill All" you need to then have 40x Random Drop rolls at the end of the mission, plus a 40x XP bonus and 40x $$.
Also depending on how the game handles Stealth, seeing as their wont be a Stealth Class (yet?), assuming all it takes to be stealthy is to take a Stealth Tertiary Power then everyone will do it and simply never do kill all's as its faster to Stealth and with a lot less risk. Unless due to the lower risk the rewards are less but then that will make the sneakers unhappy.
Its not always easy making everyone happy...
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
I don't think it's quite that difficult, because it comes down to math. Clearing a mission produces X $, Y Exp, and takes Z minutes (on average). X is the combination of direct money and the average value of "loot" dropped by enemies.
XY / Z = K, where K is the "value" of the mission. As long as K is [i]reasonably[/i] close for the various completion options (+/- 10%, or whatever the developers decide) for a given mission, then the mission's various options are good.
Of course, this only really holds true for the "standard" missions, and perhaps it would be more appropriate for certain missions to be heavily biased toward one play style than another, but that's a bridge to cross when we get to it.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
i want the "sic IRS on heroes" button. or is that too evil?
What a man thinks of himself, that is what determines, or rather indicates, his fate. - Henry David Thoreau
You're a villain. NOTHING is too evil, and if it is then you're clearly an anti-villain so the good guys deserve it!
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[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/toon-profiles-nnekonnin-llabanttselel-aalbusuumbra-aagimundr-sstaalsol-and-doctor]My original character profiles![/url]
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/26.jpg[/img]
Once again, [b]Great Minds Think Alike[/b] ... ^_~
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
reward playstyles..... nah. let's be READY for those methods.
charge in the front with a ego as big a a mountain, and a chip on both shoulders just as big?
answer- have tons of goons aiming right at the front door with cover.
sneak past it all to the end boss throne room?
answer: have tons of baddies pour out of the walls from secret panels, and from behind the throne. and make the end baddie a robot stand-in.
muhahahahhahahahahahahhaha
What a man thinks of himself, that is what determines, or rather indicates, his fate. - Henry David Thoreau
can we have action sequences and make Events Punching Boulders?
whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich
[img]http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm106/hinata1032/Kitsune.jpg[/img]