Gifting

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syntaxerror37
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Gifting

This is something I've been thinking about for a while now. Is there anything in the works to allow a player to purchase something from the game store and gifted to another account? This was a feature that was sadly missing from CoH's store, but found in other games. I am alright with the Stars them selves being nontransferable, but I would really like this ability of the store.

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I think this is a great idea.

I think this is a great idea. I play more than my son and wife and often like to give them things. My only caution is if this could somehow mess up the economy or be exploited or make accounts more vulnerable when hacked. But I don't know enough about those things to know for sure if those are concerns.

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The plan is to allow people

The plan is to allow people to use Stars in the auction house, so being able to buy something from the store and gift it would scarcely add a new dimension. I'd always more or less assumed that buying something from the store as a gift (or being able to send it to someone else) would be a thing.

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It's certainly in line with

It's certainly in line with the spirit of our community.
I fondly remember as a brand-new-newbie having a lvl 50 SO dropped on my while I was training in Atlas. Thought I was rich when I sold it to the vendor for 35k!
It never occurred to me that gifting items from the game store isn't so different in spirit, though I suspect it wouldn't happen very often as a random act of kindness.
I would definitely like to see something like this if it doesn't have any deleterious side effects that I couldn't think of.

syntaxerror37
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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

I'd always more or less assumed that buying something from the store as a gift (or being able to send it to someone else) would be a thing.

It is quite common, but as I said it was missing from CoH's store. I just wanted to make sure it was being thought about.

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Doctor Tyche just reminded me

Doctor Tyche just reminded me why CoH didn't have this. I steal your account and gift what I buy with all your spare points to various other accounts, most but not all of which are mine. Imagine the issues that would come out of trying to sort that situation out.

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It is a little to early to

It is a little to early to say yes or no to this question. I have ideas on how to make it work but we need to get a few other pieces of infrastructure in place before we touch base on it. It is something on my own personal wishlist to want to try and do but I am just one person and in no way speak for the business side of the house. :)

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No worries you got this

No worries you got this petalstorm no one says no to a red head just look what happened to dark Phoenix , Carrie and carrot top all deadly in their own ways :) and got what they wanted in one way or another

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Minotaur wrote:
Minotaur wrote:

Doctor Tyche just reminded me why CoH didn't have this. I steal your account and gift what I buy with all your spare points to various other accounts, most but not all of which are mine. Imagine the issues that would come out of trying to sort that situation out.

And yet I can do this in Guild Wars 2 with Gems. Buy Gems from ArenaNet and then buy an item off the Gem Market, and then gift that to someone else.

Granted, Guild Wars 2 does also email verification for when you log into an account from a different IP to what you normally play on (or every login if you have it set up that way). So there is that layer of account protection as well.

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Minotaur wrote:
Minotaur wrote:

Doctor Tyche just reminded me why CoH didn't have this. I steal your account and gift what I buy with all your spare points to various other accounts, most but not all of which are mine. Imagine the issues that would come out of trying to sort that situation out.

That is the primary concern with such a feature. However, if this is the main objection to gifting then Segev's idea to allow Stars to be used on the AH - or any kind of trading between players involving Stars - would have to be taken from the table, as well.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Minotaur wrote:
Doctor Tyche just reminded me why CoH didn't have this. I steal your account and gift what I buy with all your spare points to various other accounts, most but not all of which are mine. Imagine the issues that would come out of trying to sort that situation out.

That is the primary concern with such a feature. However, if this is the main objection to gifting then Segev's idea to allow Stars to be used on the AH - or any kind of trading between players involving Stars - would have to be taken from the table, as well.

I'm not saying it's why we shouldn't have it, I'm saying it's why CoH didn't have it, basically it's something that needs to be taken into account when designing such a feature and CoH didn't feel they could.

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Darth Fez
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Point.

Point.

Right now there are enough games that are doing this in some fashion* that it would appear downright backward to shy away from it due to some 'what if' concern that has been addressed or is not as significant a concern as some may fear. Or both.



* Yes, even WoW.

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Minotaur wrote:
Minotaur wrote:

Darth Fez wrote:
Minotaur wrote:
Doctor Tyche just reminded me why CoH didn't have this. I steal your account and gift what I buy with all your spare points to various other accounts, most but not all of which are mine. Imagine the issues that would come out of trying to sort that situation out.

That is the primary concern with such a feature. However, if this is the main objection to gifting then Segev's idea to allow Stars to be used on the AH - or any kind of trading between players involving Stars - would have to be taken from the table, as well.

I'm not saying it's why we shouldn't have it, I'm saying it's why CoH didn't have it, basically it's something that needs to be taken into account when designing such a feature and CoH didn't feel they could.

hmm... how about using Validation codes sent via Text SMS Messsag, or Email? or a combination of the two?

And if a hacker gets access to the CoT Account, any attempt to change the Email or SMS number will send out a Validation Request also. :D Poor hacker.. and ALL That Work.. down the drain! :<

Actually, I'm more concerned with family members trying to screw each other over more than some unknown hacker. ;) How do you stop that!? :/

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Minotaur wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:
Minotaur wrote:
Doctor Tyche just reminded me why CoH didn't have this. I steal your account and gift what I buy with all your spare points to various other accounts, most but not all of which are mine. Imagine the issues that would come out of trying to sort that situation out.

That is the primary concern with such a feature. However, if this is the main objection to gifting then Segev's idea to allow Stars to be used on the AH - or any kind of trading between players involving Stars - would have to be taken from the table, as well.

I'm not saying it's why we shouldn't have it, I'm saying it's why CoH didn't have it, basically it's something that needs to be taken into account when designing such a feature and CoH didn't feel they could.

hmm... how about using Validation codes sent via Text SMS Messsag, or Email? or a combination of the two?
And if a hacker gets access to the CoT Account, any attempt to change the Email or SMS number will send out a Validation Request also. :D Poor hacker.. and ALL That Work.. down the drain! :<
Actually, I'm more concerned with family members trying to screw each other over more than some unknown hacker. ;) How do you stop that!? :/

I suspect recently or soon to be ex significant other is more of an issue

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Minotaur wrote:
Minotaur wrote:

Izzy wrote:
Minotaur wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:
Minotaur wrote:
Doctor Tyche just reminded me why CoH didn't have this. I steal your account and gift what I buy with all your spare points to various other accounts, most but not all of which are mine. Imagine the issues that would come out of trying to sort that situation out.

That is the primary concern with such a feature. However, if this is the main objection to gifting then Segev's idea to allow Stars to be used on the AH - or any kind of trading between players involving Stars - would have to be taken from the table, as well.

I'm not saying it's why we shouldn't have it, I'm saying it's why CoH didn't have it, basically it's something that needs to be taken into account when designing such a feature and CoH didn't feel they could.

hmm... how about using Validation codes sent via Text SMS Messsag, or Email? or a combination of the two?
And if a hacker gets access to the CoT Account, any attempt to change the Email or SMS number will send out a Validation Request also. :D Poor hacker.. and ALL That Work.. down the drain! :<
Actually, I'm more concerned with family members trying to screw each other over more than some unknown hacker. ;) How do you stop that!? :/

I suspect recently or soon to be ex significant other is more of an issue

Ohhh... After the 3rd time she says "Spend MORE time with me, not with your MMO", id watch my Back a little more. :P

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A good tracking system should

A good tracking system should help. It won't be enough all by itself, since proving "when" the hacking occurred is tricky (and claims could be made to try to scam the system, for such purposes as buyer's remorse or seller's remorse being used to forcibly reverse sales wherein the other party may not have been willing), but at least knowing the chain-of-ownership of all items will help reverse things if reversals are determined to be necessary.

This is, in effect, the same issue as real-world identity theft. So we will be using much the same tactics as real-world agencies (with a relative intensity based on the seriousness of the problem and an eye towards transparency for authorized users) to investigate and combat it.

However, gifts and transfers that seem wildly off from the going market rates and the like would be red flags for the human investigators looking into claims of this sort, which would at least help identify perhaps malfeasant transfers.

How much budget we will have for investigating claims of fraud will depend on how successful the game is, as well. Maybe a microsubscription for higher-security with more personal attention/priority from live human investigators would be appropriate, allowing us to directly fund such activities for those concerned about them.

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I just can't wait to throw my

I just can't wait to throw my money at you !!! Here take it !!! I want to play !!!

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I was glad this topic was

I was glad this topic was brought up but apparently the idea is different from mine. I just thought we were talking about buying and gifting points(or stars or whatever) to someone's account from our account, not some extra accumulated points from in-game activities.. If there are no game time cards available, I would like to be able to gift a month or so of subscription or gift whatever currency is used for them to spend in the cash shop. I'm assuming you will implement two-step authentication for game/account login. Can you then implement it for 'cash' gifts as well? I know you are worried about hacking but can you also implement something like my bank allows where I set a limit how much my debit card can withdraw in day. You could allow us to set a limit for the month. Not sure if that would alleviate your concerns. I'm only going to spend so much for myself no matter how much I love the game and having some way to gift to friends/family would up that limit. Giving cash and saying "you can only spend this on City of Titans" is just not going to work as easily(or at all) as someone logging into their account, redeeming a code and seeing they now have points to spend in the cash shop.

Could it be a completely separate option from our account? i.e. You don't even need a CoT account to gift a sub or points. Click the gift icon and just like any online store, you enter your billing info on a secure page, enter credit card or Paypal info, get a code delivered to your email then forward that to a friend. If you are worried about the main account being hacked and financial information compromised, would this alleviate that concern somewhat? Is there still a concern about entering billing info each time as opposed to the player entering it once and the billing goes on 'in the background'?

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Two-step authentication and a

Two-step authentication and a sort of "escrow" account for storing traded items might be a good idea. Use an email or other account that is not inherently managed by the same logon information as the MWM account before it's released to the other party. Both parties must do this to get the items fully traded.

Credit limits may also be a good idea. Perhaps thresholds below which the two-step authentication is not needed.

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I think there needs to be a

I think there needs to be a "whitelist" of tiers .. like the neighbor's list in Wildstar. Sometimes you want people in your stuff.. sometimes you want to share your stuff.. but you never want to get unsolicited shares from security threats.

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I do love the idea of being

I do love the idea of being able to "gift" something like a month of gamesub to offer as a CC reward, without the financial intimacy of having to get together via paypal or something.

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At the very, very least,

At the very, very least, gifting Stars will be possible. Gifting other items will, hopefully, as well.

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I'm working from the

I'm working from the assumption that some of them will be.. custom weapons created in KS need to be a "by gift only" as well as KS costumes..

I had assumed that they would be serial codes specially coded for us.. I wonder how much work it would be to tie a (randomized) serial code to each costume component so we can gift only what we want.

I know in other games i've been screwed buying currency for someone and having them spend it as they like (often using it for something they didn't ask for).. yes even my friends. I would feel much better knowing I went to the store and bought them the gift that fits them rather than giving them a card full of money.

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This is in no way a judgment,

This is in no way a judgment, but just curiosity: why is it problematic to you if the person to whom you're gifting something takes the currency you sent them to buy the gift you wanted for them and instead buys something else? (I'm assuming we're not dealing with real-world things where whatever they're buying could be personally harmful, like a hypothetical drug-addicted friend taking the money you sent him for rent and spending it on his drug of choice.)

Again, this is just me wondering what your position on it is and why, not saying your position is wrong.

I have actually thought about giving serial numbers to every item sold in the game for precisely this sort of purpose, as well as for the ability to potentially introduce small randomized "flaws" to certain items to increase their potential uniqueness. I am not sure that last bit is a good idea, but it's something that occurred to me. (Based, in part, on how certain collectables are worth more for the errors in them, like stamps that were accidentally printed upside-down.)

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To the game, to the currency,

To the game, to the currency, it's not.

Its a personal philosophy of a gift. If I see something that I want a friend to have or (worse) if they ask me to get something for them.. then I want to be the one who gave that gift to them. I find it personally offensive (even if I don't show it) when people exploit my generosity for means they didn't express.

It's the difference between expressed consent and implied consent.

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Fair enough.

Fair enough.

And the ability to gift specific items would be nice; I think it safe to say it's on our wish list, too. (I don't know how hard it will wind up being to implement; I imagine the same security measures that protect people against fraud with transferring Stars will be adequate to protect against gifts being used as a theft-exploit.)

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity about what the difference is to you!

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Another interesting potential

Another interesting potential usage would be, for lack of a better term, a loan or lease of certain items. I'm thinking specifically for supergroups in this case, primarily premium costume pieces or power augments. Say your SG has a uniform that uses one or more premium costume pieces, or vetrewards, or something otherwise not readily available to everyone. When you design the "standard" uniform for the SG, any piece used in it becomes available to all members even if they couldn't access it otherwise, so long as they remain a member. The price of doing so is reflected as part of whatever functions as rent or maintenance costs for the SG. The augment idea would function more or less the same, with an SG being able to have/buy a SG augment slot, so that for instance, a group of marksmen could have increased Acc just for being in the SG, or maybe a scorpion cult would be able to make sure that any melee attacks it's members use proc a poison DoT. I'm sure there are other examples people may think of for ways to do something like this outside the framework of a SG, or with other things than Costume pieces or augments. SG-issued vehicles maybe?

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I'm sorry, but I don't

I'm sorry, but I don't understand taking offense to somebody spending currency however they want to spend it if it's been gifted to them. I don't go out and buy a Wal-Mart gift card and give it to somebody with a note attached to it saying, "You can only spend this gift card on Pokémon Sapphire for the Nintendo 3DS.", just because I wanted to get them Pokémon Sapphire but for some reason didn't. I gave them the ability to get what they wanted, if they chose to use it for something else that is on them. Perhaps they needed Milk, Bread, and Cheese more than Pokémon Sapphire. After that it is up to them to get Pokémon Sapphire on their own, unless I'm feeling generous enough to gift it to them myself.

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

I'm sorry, but I don't understand taking offense to somebody spending currency however they want to spend it if it's been gifted to them.

Personally, I don't like to give money/gift cards as gifts (but I will do it if that is what they really want). I would much rather give a "real" gift. In the digital world, I would like the ability to buy a costume piece, inventory expansion, or whatever else and gift that to another player. Now, if it happened I could only send the currency then I wouldn't be offended that it was spent on whatever the receiver chose, unless active deceit was involved.

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It's not "oh, I gave a gift

It's not "oh, I gave a gift card or cash, but demand you only spend it this way, rather than buying you what I wanted you to have," that's the issue. It's if there's no way to gift items, the ONLY thing you could give is the Stars. So if you wouldn't want them to just have the Stars for whatever purpose, but only wanted them to have XYZ gift, if you didn't have the option to gift them XYZ, you might feel that was your only choice.

But having had a "wow, I was being silly" moment occur to me: we plan to have people able to trade items between each other, for Stars or currency or even other items. Gifting would just be trading the gift for nothing. I think we've got this covered.

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I am a F2P player. I have

I am a F2P player. I have lots of time and ingame currency.. but no real money. maybe someone is selling what I want....

Im a casual player with limited time. I want it now, so I will use real money. Now I need in game currency. I can sell what I bought with stars in game. Everyone is happy......

Please allow gifting to accounts that have been linked in some way as more than friends.

Exploit to prevent:
I am a free to play player. I have lots of in game CoT currency by running bots. Lots of them. I use this to buy items that can only be acquired through stars. I have $20 of real value....free.

I sell this on a 3rd party site for $15. Then I transfer this to someone in game. I make a living doing this now.

How do we keep gold/item spammers out of a game? Free to play til lvl 10. After 10, need a one time fee to unlock the game, or to unlock greater chat options besides group chat. Maybe $0.25 to unlock chat functions.

Spammers and Scammers can get reported for violating the UA

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usmchayward wrote:
usmchayward wrote:

Exploit to prevent:
I am a free to play player. I have lots of in game CoT currency by running bots. Lots of them. I use this to buy items that can only be acquired through stars. I have $20 of real value....free.
I sell this on a 3rd party site for $15. Then I transfer this to someone in game. I make a living doing this now.
How do we keep gold/item spammers out of a game? Free to play til lvl 10. After 10, need a one time fee to unlock the game, or to unlock greater chat options besides group chat. Maybe $0.25 to unlock chat functions.
Spammers and Scammers can get reported for violating the UA

Unless it's changed since the last time I read a dev's comment on this subject, they are planning on Buy-to-Play (with optional sub) so that when they find violators and boot them, the violators have to pay them again to get a new account. ^_^

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