Simple answer, just don't allow people to make an account without paying a subscription.
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~Es
Thu, 06/05/2014 - 17:42
#1
No Free Games
No Free Games
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Just like CoH was when it 1st came out, I suggest, though it would stop a FEW people from playing, that in order to make an account you need to play a $10 a month subscription fee. That way, there's a guaranteed profit from it.
~Es
Last I heard It will be Buy to Play. They have to buy to download after that a Sub would be a choice. It wouldn't be a Free to Play everyone still would have to pay the entrance price after that they can sub for the more thrilling rides in this park!
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
So, you pay $29.95 and get the VIP treatment the 1st month (or 2) free? and if you like it... you can subscribe?
Yup exactly. You get some time free with the buy. After that you can continue to sub. If you don't want to sub you can still log in just with restrictions. I think Ingame store tokens come with the sub much like how City of Heroes had the Premium Subs. First access to new missions things of that nature as well as membership rewards. Don't know the details or even if they changed their minds. That just was the last I heard was going in that direction.
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
Yes - unless things have changed - I believe I read if you buy the game (for whatever price it will be), you get 3 free months subscription, including all benefits (like a game store stipend).
After those 3 complimentary months you have a choice:
a) You can let your sub lapse and play for free. You keep the stuff you already bought while subbed and you can buy new stuff as it is released in the game store for cash money. You also have the option of re-subbing in the future, of course.
b) You can continue your subscription by paying a monthly fee, and reaping the benefits of said subscription. Whether there are different levels of subscription with different benefits remains to be seen.
There's a long discussion thread on this topic here: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/what-will-make-subscription-worth-buying
If you don't want to read all the various arguments and opinions, just look for Segev's posts to see what's been officially said by MWM so far.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Actually I think a lot of what Segev wrote in that thread are ideas and options they're looking at, or thinking out loud.
It behooves us to keep in mind that, at this stage of development, even 'word of god' is subject to change.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Personally I cant stand the subscription model it makes me sick to my stomach I really prefer the Buy to Play model with a Game Store that revolves around cosmetic options with some convenience items. I don't like being forced to pay for a game, I like to feel like its my choice that I'm making an investment into a game I enjoy playing. Subscription models tend to lean toward elitism and the "Don't wast my time" mentality that is more about winning than having fun. Admittedly free to play goes way to far in the other direction so I understand not wanting to see that. But I wont likely lay the game if it goes subscription. The subscription model just feels like a sleazy attempt at gouging money from players, and is nowadays is almost always associated with games that companies have no faith in for the long term and are just trying to make a quick buck at launch before the game dies. The only halfway good game Ive played recently with a subscription model is Wildstar which is really just a Sub heavy hybrid. The subscription model isn't the right way to go, its become dated and untrustworthy. Or at least that's my opinion.
Good is not something you are, its something you do.
That's an old discussion, Pbuckley. The way I see it, we're paying rent. Rent for a spot on their server. Without us paying rent, their server will foreclose, and there will be no game. Game sales alone wouldn't be able to keep up with paying the devs and paying their own monthly fees for server space etc. If this was an FPS or something, then it would make sense to not pay a monthly subscription. But it isn't an FPS, and there's a lot more in depth coding and memory storage to keep the MMO live, and real time. I am more than happy to pay a subscription fee to have a high quality game that provides frequent updates and expansions. There's nothing sleazy about it. If there was anything sleazy, there'd be quarterly membership fees of $10 - $30 or something. It's not about having faith in the long term; it's about business--staying in business.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
On top of it, sure they want to make an awesome product, but why shouldn't they make profit in something they love to do? I see nothing wrong with actually making money when you pour your heart into something.
5 OClock Shadow
"The Five", "Old Scruff", "Wolfbrand", "Tashomono"
Your shaving days are numbered...
Hmm... I sort of understand what you're saying about all the wishy washy games, but it sounds like you didnt play CoH/CoV for very long.
It was a game that made you happy, and not even for a second did I regret being a subscriber. And before the game was shut down, I was actually thinking "Man, maybe I should have give a little bit more." :P
But I cant really find too many games now that make me feel remotely the same.
Well, theres [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BummGC5G_6U]DIRT 3[/url], but thats just a racing game. ;)
The planned "Buy-to-Play/Opt-to Sub" hybrid model seems like the most reasonable path to me. It limits a certain amount of jack-assery, but is not a serious barrier to play. It's important to remember that MWM doesn't have a deep reserve pocket (like NC Soft) to support total Free-to-Play from the start. And, for the above reason, I hope they never go that way, anyway. The initial buy-in gets some development money in hand at the start, and hopefully the ongoing sub+cash store can keep the gameplay affordable over the long haul.
I'd consider myself a relatively casual player of CoH, despite having multiple Subscription accounts. For me, the Sub Stipend in CoH mainly meant I didn't have to grind for the pretties I wanted, just had to be a little patient for vet rewards sometimes. Though, honestly, I almost always shelled out my $10 for the immediate gratification of a new costume pack. :) The Influence allowance with the sub wasn't ridiculous, either. And heck, Subscribing certainly didn't let you level faster. How is that even possible? LOL. What it DID give me, was an umlimited creative outlet for character ideas & experiments. As many character slots as I could handle, and access to just about every cosmetic doo-dad I wanted.
What I basically wanted from my Sub, and what I hope for from CoT, is basically "Unlimited Access". Not that I shouldn't have to work for some things, badges, special powers, etc. But if I'm supporting the game, I should at least have the keys to all the "gates".
Whene i was younger I played the game with a subscription for some time. However back then I really didn't get to far into the game. I also played for some time after it went free to play (BEST FTP MODEL I HAVE EVER SEEN! BTW) and got into the late 30's before everyone I knew left the game. I loved CoH it was a big part of my childhood and the only truly good Superhero MMO out there. I want this game to succeed and I want to be able to play it. But a if it goes Sub only I will likely lose all my faith in it. Back when CoH first came out Sub was the norm heck it was necessary know its not Subs are no longer necessary to run MMO's and those companies that use subs tend to do so in the desire to gouge money out of their players.
Secondly CoX did not close down do to money problems it closed down do to those same sleazy business practices that drive companies to launch games with subscription models.
In MY EXPERIENCES those who want games to launch with sub models tend to do so for two reasons:
1. They are used to subscription models and have heard all sorts of bad things about F2P Models. That aren't necessarily true (Though admittedly sometimes are, but usually are the result of the same sort of company practices that make businesses launch P2P in the first place) and are afraid of the change.
2. Out of a desire for exclusion wanting to make the game into a sort of social club to which only those capable of paying the monthly subscription fee are allowed to join. (The type of player you don't want as they are the same people who cry scrub and noob in an attempt to run off new players, and promote an elitist community viewpoint.)
But like I said before that's just my opinion.
Good is not something you are, its something you do.
Ohhh... but CoT wont have enough game store assets to support a Free 2 Play model. Only after they are confident that they can bring in enough funds just from the Game Store can they really follow a Free2Play model. Lets let them figure out how and when its possible to do Free2Play, as I can guess MWM would also like to accept someday.
Although I plan to have a subscription, I respect where you are coming from. I have a friend who won't pay a subscription, but has no problem supporting the game via the store (honestly I think he probably averaged out close to $15/month since he started playing GW2 going by his gem store purchases). I'm probably going to end up buying a copy of CoT for him when it goes live so he can join in with the rest of us. People like you and him are the reason I'm fighting for non-subs to not be treated as second class citizens.
Just to ask, do you have any issues with buy to play?
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Ty Syntax, and the truth of the matter is if they are F2P with a P2P model I will likely subscribe. Like I said before I want it to be MY choice I don't want to pay because i have to I want to do it because I want to. I know that's a bit finicky but that's just how I am. When i played gw2 I would pay up to 50$ some months when i had the cash to spend, but sometimes I cant even afford to spend 10$ for a sub. I don't think I should be disallowed to play simply because I'm having trouble making ends meet one month. That's when I'm gonna wanna play most to get my mind off of my problems. We live in an unreliable economy its not fiscally responsible to try and rely on a UNRELIABLE P2P Model..
Good is not something you are, its something you do.
Yeah, I agree, I haven't even come CLOSE to a hero creator that VAGUELY reminds me of CoH
~Es
Yeah, I mean I didn't start playing till 05-06, but I still had plenty of experience before it went free to play. I just think, at least when CoT is getting off its feet, there should be no Free To Play.
~Es
Where do you draw the conclusion that shutting the game down is the 'same sleazy business practice' as having a subscription model? It's like you're saying "Here's two things I don't like, subscription models and the game shutting down. Since I dislike them both, they must be the same thing."
When City of Heroes launched, NCSoft was just the developer; they didn't buy ownership of the game until years later.
Plus they changed the game to free to play when it was closed down, remember? SO while the decision to make City of Heroes subscription only wasn't made under NCSoft, the decision to make it free to play WAS.
It would be less inaccurate (though still inaccurate) to say the free to play model comes from the 'same sleazy business practices' as shutting City of Heroes down.
That said, I'm glad they're not going with free to play NOR with subscription only. This hybrid model seems quite appealing.
Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :) Working in Nebraska.
COT: Mission tips writer, studying Cinema 4D animation program
You might not want to pay a sub, but I do. I want to pay a sub, I want to be able to click on the "sign me up for a year at less per month than the people who pay month by month" option. I want my sub to buy me stuff that other people either can't have or would have to pay MORE money or grind for MONTHS to get otherwise. I want there to be a sub option, and I want it to feel so good that it feels like I'd be missing out on something if I weren't subscribed, and I want those people who don't pay a sub to feel like they're definitely not experiencing the game to the fullest. I want the non-sub option to basically suck and the long-term sub option to feel like the best possible value for the money spent.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I agree with the last part, I read more about the hybrid thingy and I think it's a great idea.
~Es
I do not like the free to play model. Mainly because I feel like I end up getting "nickle & dime" to death for each thing I want for my toons, Even if each thing is "fairly" cheap, you can end up paying a lot of money. Marvel 2015 is a prime example. You want to expand your choices of characters to play, you have to buy them. Want to save a little, buy a bundle, but that bundle does not have everyone you wanted, or not the right costume. You buy another thing. I do not like playing games where I have to keep forking out money to get the new items or cool toys.
Deeds Not Words
To be fair - Marvel 2015 is a HORRENDOUS example of "free to play". If you want to see a much friendlier version of FTP see Smite or, hell, even Star Trek Online or Neverwinter.
You mean like how City of Heroes did... although saying that, they did also give *some* things free to F2P players...
There seem to be three different points of view on the subject of monetization in general:
1. The future subscribers. I place myself in this category and I personally want my sub to come with something meaningful and awesome that the non-sub people don't get. Call me crazy, but choosing to not only pay but agreeing to pay regularly on time every month should, I feel, come with some cool benefits. This is seen as an elitist attitude by some, but I look at it as expecting something of some value for your money.
2. The F2Pers who would say "I don't want a Pay to Win game". These people A) don't want to pay a monthly sub and B) don't want to have to pay for anything that's actually useful enough that you might feel you need it to play at a competitively high level (whatever that is, PVP dominance or PVE awesomeness). These people, as far as I can discern, want the whole game to be free because that means they don't have to pay for anything, and that's the best deal for them. They are apparently convinced that game companies don't really need money to keep servers running, pay people to handle customer problems, design new powers, missions, maps, etc. or that all the money you'd ever need for that can be gotten from someone else, but not themselves, because paying for things you enjoy is for suckers. The smart people go with "free" and let the idiots pay money for stuff.
3. The F2Pers that, essentially, DO want "Pay to Win" who will gladly pay for micro-transactions for useful items and don't just want it to be "here buy this new funny bowtie for $1, there'll be a new one next month that is even funnier, probably" As far as I can tell these people are the ones who don't want the drag of having to commit to something long-term but like having fun in the here and now and will pay to be able to out-play others who didn't buy the same stuff.
I don't see any way to reconcile things such that everyone is satisfied. MAYBE if they actually manage to get in-game ads that can pay for stuff we'll all win and I'll eat my words, but apart from that, I think someone somewhere is going to be disappointed by whatever system ends up getting used.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Neverwinter is horrible. Look at what they charge for bank storage and bags. Plus they screwed up the economy so that the auction house currency -> RM currency exchange is pretty dysfunctional.
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team and Forum Moderator[/color]
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Really? It's been a while since I played. Hmm. I know things are pretty bad over in CO . . . wonder if things have changed in STO then - last time I played that it wasn't too difficult to do the Dilithium to Zen thing.
Free 2 Play is as responsible as the persons controlling the value of the micro-transactions.
Cryptic Studios can tongue the deepest part of my ass. But just because Cryptic/PWE sucks does NOT mean MWM will. Gaming is art first commerce second. My advice "find your niche" and make them happy
Crowd Control Enthusiast
This is very true.
To respond to the other post, there was an exploit in NW that allowed generation of ADs. Many of these were used to purchase Zen, meaning that (since the rate was capped at 500AD/Zen), there was no Zen available for purchase for a couple of months as the real exchange rate would be higher than that. Since they stamped down on the exploit, the rate is still 500 but at least you can buy.
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team and Forum Moderator[/color]
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I have no issues with subscribers getting extra goodies. I subscribed to CoX until I couldn't afford it. I can back late into the F2P era, and I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't access all the archtypes anymore. It really sucked because when I had a sub I had the CoH/CoV pack, but when I came back my discs refused to install and play nice with the servers. The warshade/peacebringer stuff, I would understand not having access to those. But anything included on a base disc, I thought I should have been able to access. Things that came in issue releases (not on a disc, I know CoV was considered an issue), if I didn't have access then I could easily accept that. That they gave away ANY dlc is amazing.
As for CoT... I *hope* to be able to subscribe. It depends on things. Right now, no way I could. I could find a way to get $30 for the game, but not monthly. Hopefully I'll be in a better place by the time it comes out.
See the "What will make a subscription worth buying thread" - but if you don't want to read the entire thing, here are the highlights I can remember from it (If I misremember please correct me);
* They are hoping to have a variety of subscription options, if you select all of them you are effectively getting the "full subscription" we would be familiar with. They will also have a free to play option.
* Once you buy the game - this effectively includes 3 months of free subscription, with all the benefits (like a monthly store stipend - greater than the normal cash-to store currency conversion rate, giving you a good deal - which you can use to purchase the new stuff you want as it is released).
* After those months you can decide to continue to subscribe/pay the monthly fee or you can play for free.
* If you are playing free you can still pay for things in the store for cash, and anything you have previously unlocked would still be available for you.
Sub-only seems kind of silly to me now to be honest and I happily paid a sub for CoX. If the devs are doing it right, you'll want to pay a sub. And if you can't afford one, participation alone adds value to the game for people who can and you still have the option of dropping a few bucks on specific things you'd really like to have.
It might make sense to start out with box-buys and subs-only when you know you've got a dedicated fanbase willing to stand by the game until they start inevitably running out of content (it always happens and it makes sense that it always happens) but IMO, finding that F2P balance sweet spot should be a long term goal, and a sign of longevity, not a sign of failure.
I though CoX's F2P model was brilliant and it makes perfect sense to me that a game that old was able to maintain a stable following. One of the biggest shames of the game closing right before i24's release was that there was a chance profits would have started climbing and that would been a noteworthy event for MMO business.
The thing is that there were several other issues (as in releases for the game) that were hyped up by the player base to bring in both new and old blood, but for most of them, they turned out to be a flop in terms of increasing revenue/player base numbers. If anything, the "come back weekends" seemed to bring in more of a spike than actual "new content"....
Even the release of Going Rogue had a far smaller effect than I would have thought. It also didn't help in that they also ended up giving free to the playerbase just a year later when Freedom landed (for those subscribers at least).
The F2P was implemented "OK" in my mind. The major problems with it was that after subbing for a period of time (or spending enough money on the store) you could afford to no longer subscribe and still maintain the benefits of being a subscriber.
This meant that for the *older* active accounts, they could afford to unsubscribe (if they so desired) and still maintain *everything* that they wanted. If they wanted to do *anything* incarnate, it was $15 to do it. Also if they had more characters than slots available... but they could be bought out with purchases.
It was a bit of a mixed bag as well... You could unlock the AH permanently after just 6 badges ($90 spend total) but to permanently unlock IO's (which work hand in hand with the IO system really) was after 27 badges ($405 spend total).
Of course, if you subscribed and then *stopped* paying (for any reason)... your play experience was vastly different to what you would normally be having... unless you were a vet player or you spent money to keep it the same.
It almost *pressured* players to keep on spending money to have useful characters. I am fine having a limited number of characters. I was fine using a separate build (if I had one spare that is), but it was *so* annoying to basically have two plans for one character... just because of the difference that IO's could make to how a character played...
All my own opinion, your mileage may vary, warranty void where people breath oxygen, pancakes are awesome.
First year pay to play,
Later, invite a friend, they get 1 month and you get 1 month.
Much later, all new accounts 1 month free trial
Next, premium or VIP make that a cash shop monrthly purchase
So if you wanted to go premium during a particular event or contest you could do so instantly.
Premium should have faster travel powers, nudity mode, BAMF power useable once a day that makes any power 4x more powerful for an hour, casino mode = access to blackjack, and poker to make in game money.
Premium and logging wristband time earns an xp boost you may use when you want to.
Logging wristband time non-premium starts an xp boost when you log in.
Wristband time = wearing any automated sportsband that logs calories burnt and updates to an online server, you must burn 1,5k calories (easy) for a small xp boost, 3k calories (a little harder) to earn a medium boost, 6k calories (hard) for a large boost, and 12k calories (athlete) for a 2 day large boost.
Just something I thought of being a Nike + wristband owner, and knowing that most gamers I've met tend to be obese and in poor health.
Imaginitive young lady looking for clients, talents are imagining the realistic possibilities of practically anything, and applying new technologies to practical applications in all types of business.
Every point in this exactly matches my views. I would go slightly further to say that if I can't subscribe and get slightly better treatment, then I most likely would see the game in a lesser light. I would probably still play but I would never purchase anything through micro-transactions. A stipend, advance access to features, exclusive use of certain features--even if only for a set amount of time, like a year for example--these would be the things that would make me want to pay a subscription (not all would be needed; just one or more of them).
It would be nice if subscribers had access to closed betas, but I will not be availing myself of such a benefit. I hate betas because I'm no good at offering comments on things. I usually get so caught up in stories that I completely overlook any flaws. Any glaring flaws that can't be overlooked tend to color my opinion of the feature so much that I can't fully enjoy it even after said flaws are fixed. (I know, I'm stupid that way, but I acknowledge that stupidity and don't let it interfere by opting out of participating in betas).
Please, please, please shut up and take my money!
The only thing I'd add is that MWM has said they plan to have veteran rewards, but we know nothing yet about the nature of these rewards or specifically what they are rewarding (time subscribed? amount spent in store? etc).
Spurn all ye kindle.
I see subscribers as being worth a slight discount over the F2P model as a reward to loyalty.
Assume that a sub is $15.00 a month. Less if paid for in bulk because you're insuring the future of the game by buying NOW.
Now let's say a person under F2P can spend money to get stuff normally restricted to subscribers. I want the subscriber to be able to get just a little more for his fifteen bucks than the F2P guy and HIS fifteen bucks. Why? Because the F2P guy might only contribute five bucks next month.
To me a subscription is a promise...a contract. I give you money every month you can count on in exchange for not having to worry about what I have and have not unlocked under the F2P system. I'm being a loyal customer, paying you even during those months when there are no updates or when the updates are not to my liking. I think I deserve a little extra consideration for that over the F2P guy who might never spend a dime.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
I believe it was Dr. Tyche who mentioned something along the lines that the stipend (the amount of which would be greater than the monthly cost of a sub) would function as a buy your own subscriber package. So although yes non subscribers can drop cash on Stars to buy the same features, you still end up ahead of the game overall.
Early access to content, powers, animations, costumes, etc. would not be a bad incentive, but I would set it to only two weeks at most, and preferably one week. Remember, we want non subscribers to spend money on the new shinies; a year later they aren't so new and will have less demand.
I believe it has been mentioned that beta access is one of the planned benefits of being a subscriber. Closed beta is probably going to be a "friends & family" affair and I would guess most of the players tapped for it would be the same kind of player to be either subscribers and/or heavy spenders.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame