At the end, COH had 3 factions. Of all the MMOs with factions out there, I think only COH and Dark Age of Camelot had three, (and the dynamics and balance were well thought out in DAOC and were there from the beginning.)
How about Making COT start with three factions? Since you probably won't be able to use Arachnos or Rikti (Though the concept of alternate universes would work well enough) the idea of having three factions with different goals (Like Heroes, Villains, and Alien Invaders for example) could be made to work.
From what I understand (mostly from [url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/629385]this Kickstarter Update[/url]), there will be three axes of alignment (Lawful v. Unlawful, Violent v. Peaceful, Honorable v. Dishonorable). That makes room for many factions!
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Probably TOO many, given that if you include Neutrality on each axis you would have 27 distinct alignments. I would think that alignment would refer more to each individual character's personal code, while the factions would allow for members of a certain degree of alignments (It's hard to think of an alignment on those axes that doesn't have at least one of the factions "hero" and "Villain" who could be described in those terms...For example, is Big Head from "The Mask" a hero or villain? Well, he's more or less an Antihero OR a villain, being most often Unlawful, Violent and Dishonorable, but depending on who the wearer is, Big Head has been Lawful and Honorable (Kellaway, though he had a hard time resisting those unlawful urges)
I suppose you could say CoH technically had three factions if you count the Praetorians as the third faction. But when you reconsider exactly how Going Rogue worked all it really did was repackage the classic "Hero vs. Villain" factions into new forms. And ultimately as far as PvP went CoH was still only ever a two faction game.
But based on what Foradain mentioned I think CoT is going to go even farther in completely blurring the lines between the strict traditional definitions of Hero and Villain. As you recall it was always a bit "artificial" to have arbitrary Hero zones and Villain zones that limited your physical access to certain areas based solely on your alignment. The whole idea behind introducing the Vigilante and Rogue concepts were to try to address the areas of "grayness" between the two factions and allow access to various parts of the game make a little more sense.
I think it's clear from the new CoT alignment model that the very idea of having strict "factions" will no longer be fundamentally important to how the game works. I suspect the game will take into account the "degree" your character's alignment is shifted one way or the other to determine overall PvE content access and PvP teaming. Without having to be locked into traditional black-n-white factions we'll be given a huge amount of additional character concept freedom.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Yeah, Lothic, that's the impression I had also. And -- unless I just dreamed this -- that various NPC groups would react to you depending where you were on each of the 3 axes.
I'm really hoping this helps make decisions more character- and situation-based than game-based...by which I mean I hope that any time my character has a decision to make, the primary thing in my mind will be "What would he/she actually do in this situation?" rather than "What effect will this have on my character in game terms?"
Spurn all ye kindle.
When I hear "faction", I immediately think of something like WoW where you have the many factions you do quests for like Knights of the Ebon Blade and Booty Bay and such. And IIRC, there will be 47 of those at launch? I think? I remember hearing something like that a bit back. If this is true then more than likely working for one faction will change some things around for you in the game. People with that faction will be more friendly while those of opposing ones will attack on sight. If you're working for the Apokalypticult then the TCPD should be all about taking you down and so should rival groups. You should also be denied entry into areas that are "Faction Exclusive" and only allow members of that faction with certain influence (to use WoW Terms, at least Honored) in and beat the hell out of anyone else who tries.
This being said, I do hope Player-Made factions become a thing. After all, who wouldn't wanna do missions for Nightmare and his Cult?
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
I think you might be confusing a faction a player "belongs to / works for" in a traditional MMO setting with the various degrees of alignment we'll be able to establish in the new CoT 3-axis alignment system. I still don't really believe we'll "join" factions in the classical MMO sense of that word.
Instead I think our alignment axis settings will give us various degrees of choices. It may in fact make certain in-game groups more or lesss friendly to us depending on how our "alignment mindset" matches theirs and that could open or close various avenues of PvE content or PvP opportunities to us.
But as far as us actually "joining" a faction (or making our own like some kind of version of a Gulld/Supergroup) I'm not quite sure that's how it's going to work. Our alignment choices will in effect serve the same purpose as "organized factions" served in other games. That's why there won't technically be "Heroes" or "Villains" in this game as much as characters who TEND to be heroic or villainous based on the way their alignment leans in the 3-way axis system. Everything will be shades of grey...
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'm hoping that the need for hard "factions" will be made obsolete by a flexible and fluid alignment system - or at least instead of the binary hero/villain we get a spectrum of possibilities in between.
Agreed.
Alignment and Hero/Villain have been described as separate mechanics.
You can have a character morality (violence, law, and … that third thing.. I'm having a Rick Perry Moment)
But your character also has alignments. I plan on Kontrol being friendly with the 5 Dragons and a sworn enemy of Edentech.
This type of alignment is much more important to me than the "i'm good, I'm bad" alignment of CoX.
Crowd Control Enthusiast
Well of course. Nightmare will be having alliances with many of the magical "bad guys" and I can only assume there will be some system that'd allow him to work with any group going against the hardcore crazies that want to destroy the city/existence. Enemy of my Enemy and all that. Hell, I'm pretty sure if situation is dire enough he'd work with the Arcane Sentinel who are one of the potentials for "Sworn Enemy of the Cult" since they're so much like Paladins (....RAAAAAAAAAAAAAWR!!!)
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
To clarify, by "Factions" I was referring to the character's "home base" area, which in most MMOs is fixed (Though at the end, COH let you switch) and determines who you typically fight against in PVP battles.
For example:
Dark Age of Camelot: Hibernia, Albion, Midgard (Fixed)
World of Warcraft: Horde, Alliance (Fixed)
City of Heroes: Rogue Isles, Paragon CIty, Praetoria (Flexible)
and so on.
My hope is for all characters to be able to have the option to go anywhere they either want, or can apply sufficient force to. I would love to see NPC factions react based on already established mechanics (work for A, then B hates you, etc). I never truly understood why a villain couldn't simply enter, say, Talos Island. Would the stores sell/buy? I'd say no, more like call the local NPC heroes. But this is my $0.02......
Mecha Maestro. Level 50 MM bots/FF. Max Level Incarnate. Gone but not forgotten.
I understand that most MMOs are designed along the lines of having "factional home areas". For example it's obvious in fantasy based MMOs to have "the homeland of the elves" be a completely separate place from "the homeland of the orcs". Even in the early days of CoH and CoV the game was strictly organized by Hero and Villain zones.
But as Praetoria began to show us the traditional MMO idea of strictly defined zones or "home areas" for factions never really made much sense in the context of a Superhero setting. Sure its reasonable for there to be specific areas where Heroes and Villains have strongholds of control. But the idea for an entire zone to be "faction X only" in a Superhero setting doesn't really have much precedent in the comic book genre (at least where action on Earth is concerned).
So I'm actually hoping CoT will be at the very least more similar to Praetoria than it ever was to Paragon City or the Rogue Isles. Heroes and Villains should be mixed together in the same zones with no zones that "only one faction can enter but the other can't".
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
That is very much what the plan is. But even moreso than that, some of the nuance planned. If you wanted to play a Lex Luthor form of villain, your options were minimal to nonexistant in CoH. DCUO is even worse, as you witness Lex there.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Well, the limited newbie zones in an MMO are primarily to avoid high level characters griefing the lowbies (See the sin "Gluttony" in Cracked's "Seven Deadly Sins of online gaming" video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buyUoGJVZFM )
If there aren't "Starter zones" that somehow keep Lord Overshoulder Boulderholder, the level 150 Demigod Supervillain from picking on Senshi Pink, the level 1 Magic Girl Vigilante, problems ensue.
Excellent point, Redwood Elf, and one we have thought about.
I personally lean toward congregating everyone in a general area to start and then encouraging Lord Overshoulder not to hunt Senshi Pink's foes, but to team with her for greater fun and benefits, or go his own way toward more valuable prey.
I am very against a Paragon/Rogue Isles kind of split, and I see alignment as more of a gradient than a vector.
But we shall see what works out. I am not the only, nor necessarily the wisest, decider of these things.
Intelligent and polite discussions like the ones you are all having above is a very big help.
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IANAL, IMHO, WYSIWYG, YMMV, IIRC, AFAIK, ETC
[color=#ff0000]Composition Assistant Director, Composition Team[/color]
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One of the things that was talked about in one of the kickstarter updates was how story content was going to work.
They presented the idea that there would be multiple different story paths that a player would choose from, and that would determine who their contacts were and what missions they would get.
I am assuming that throughout the course of these mission chains you will be presented with decision points where you must choose what direction to take what alignment to follow as mentioned in the alignment kickstarter update. What might be interesting is if you created six specific enemy groups to be "Paragons" of that particular allignment.
Law you might have the local polic force
Unlawful you might have a powerful international crime syndicate
During your mission you might have a situation where you stumble onto a warehouse full of advanced tech stolen by the international crime syndicate. They offer to help you on your quest if you don't turn them in. Turn them in and you gain lawful rep and if your rep is high enough you gain the police as an "ally" do the opposite and the same happens on the unlawful side .
Now, later there might be a neighborhood that has completely fallen to chaos. The national gaurd has quarentined the area and most of the citizens have been evacuated. The players show up to this neighborhood and it is a PVP zone. Depending on their alignment they will be placed on one side, either helping the Police regain order, or helping the Syndicate maintain the chaos long enough to get the secret maggufin hidden in the buildings of the zone.
There aren't factions per se, but within these zones players would be flagged based on allignments.
The most important thing I can see is creating friend foe tagging that can be applied dynamically and easily. It could eventually even lead to a situation where you have a zone where multiple factions are competing directly, so it isn't just A vs B in the zone, but virtually every allignment is represented and you have a six sided fight going. The problem with doing this is spreading your playerbase too thin and risking your PVP zones becoming ghost towns. I think one of the best ways to deal with this is keep PvP zones smaller, for instance a city zone might only be a few blocks, and then create specific goals rather than just find the enemy and kill them. Things like capture and holds, or battlelines, or defeat NPC, or capture the flag will keep people like me playing PvP zones if they are well designed and easily accessible.
This kicked off a bit of an idea.
It would be really cool if some contacts provided different missions depending on how they were reached (or unlocked, if you will).
To use AaronH's example, a lawful or vigilante type might use the force of threats[color=red]*[/color] to coerce a criminal to assist them.
An unlawful hero/villain would obtain the same contact as a gopher or a middleman.
The missions needn't be vastly different and, in some cases, could even be the same mission seen from a different perspective. They could even be mission arcs that play out with the PC playing one of two main roles, i.e. the good (or 'good') guy trying to prevent something from happening while the bad (or 'bad') guy works toward pushing it through.
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[color=red]*[/color] The standard 'help me or I'll arrest you' or 'help me or I'll kill you and frame your wife for tax fraud' kind of scenarios.
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Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!