Sitting here sick with flue, haven’t slept in a while and then saw this page: my mind exploded with coolness! I loved COH!
Yes Dc online is cool as well as Champions, but COH to me was way better!
Below are my thoughts on cool stuff that I like or would like to see in a Hero game, if you don’t use it all cool, if you use some then major cool.
What are you?
Being a mutant or alien is fine, but some people want to be highly skilled, power armour, or robot, or mystically given powers or just plain mystical. Having skills (not just powers) that can affect the game as well as how you got your stuff. Power nullifier works on Aliens and Mutants (or being experimented on) but does nothing to power armour/skilled/mystical. Null magic, magical characters have issues, everyone else is fine, EMP causes the powered armour and robots to have issues... but the highly skilled hero just flies through all good.
Before you are a super hero, you where something:
Back grounds and choices as to what you where before you got whatever, how did you get whatever and maybe a few people along the way you made as friends/enemies.
What main job did you have? How did you get your “powers/skills/spells”? Who has your back, who wants to stab you in the back?
What you are should be reflected:
What I mean by this, is that during character creation, you build your model… but that has no impact in itself on the game. Being a 7 foot tall mound of metal hit by magnetic powers, means nothing… being 4 foot tall flame guy being doused by water, means nothing… being 8 foot tall mound of muscle; again means nothing in the game as far mechanics go. I would love to be able to some effect, the bigger you are the more strength/endurance or toughness you have, but slower and easier to be hit. What your primary body is composed of has an assistance/weakness to powers.
Power sets:
Super strength is always cool as is Martial arts; I always feel the poor Wrestler gets nothing though. On a one-one it seems great, though dealing with mobs not so great. Still, to me a Wrestler power set or skill set or combat mode would be cool, as in a Boss handler. Pile drive, Slams into ground even the good old Bear hug… all single type attacks that do lots of damage and stun, knock down or pin the bad guy. Pin the bad guy while your friends regroup and heal, knock the Boss down to give the group time to recover while taking heaps of damage yourself.
Power armour to vehicle:
Cyclone power armour in Robotech, something like that would be cool. You have a power armour you get around in combat, then change into a vehicle to travel around in. Missiles, gun, energy sword and shield… Hell even a Veritch would be great... though I can see why more than likely a no.
Starting small and building up, not starting big and going small:
I do not like games where you start by saving the city from a huge alien invasion… and then take on thugs. Or you escape from a massively powerful Villain, to then take on thugs. Being able to start small and going up as you play is cooler for me. Stoping that bank robbery as an example, taking out thugs trying to beat up people, a murderer trying to kill people etc…
Hero isn’t just a fighter:
What I mean is that most Super Heroes didn’t start their job by just going out to beat up people. (Yes, some did but not all.) BEING a Hero! Catching that falling plan, stoping a runaway car, getting people out of the burning building, even during a big super hero battle, just running in and helping the people. Move that huge bit of stone out of the way, hold up that falling wall to get people out and etc.
Even in their off times, the Hero does things. Maybe they need to spend time at their “job” so as to reduce the chance of a villain finding out who they are. (And work mates being used against them.)
Having a Civilian id and just hanging out… even some times being caught where they cannot use their powers and having to sneak or get away so they can “power up”.
The world:
Being able to leave the city, to be able to head outside into Jungle, Forrest, Desert, Ice caps.. and traveling between cities. Having to catch a plan, or fly yourself. Having a super villain randomly interfere with your travel; you are cool Catman with no powers and there are villains on the plan, you are flying along to see a villain has strapped some innocents to a missile and about to launch it, or about to launch a missile towards a city….
Different enemies and tactics:
Not just thugs, but mercenaries, criminals, zombies, person whom can summon forth Water elementals, Animals… robots, aliens, mystical beings. More than likely you will, just saying I like heaps of different enemies.
But also different tactics: A thug actually runs over and grabs your arms, you can’t move while his friend beats on you. Two thugs run over and grab an arm each and hold you while their blaster friend shots you! (Super strong guy throws them off, Super Agile guy slips out of the way, Super fast guy screwed but is harder to get caught in the first place.) Damage over time, the stronger you are the quicker you break free etc. The enemy interact with you more rather than just standing there and shooting you. Some dive for cover, some freak out cause half their squad is down and give up! Some pretend to give up and as you come over to put cuffs on them, they sneak attack you. (Did like in DC online some missions where you beat up the bad guy and then put cuffs on them and they sit on the ground struggling.)
Super Strength vs the world:
Super strength type powers is cool I like them, but they just end up being punch, punch punch.. nothing much else. Would love to see things like as your strength goes up, bigger items can be picked up (like DC online) having missions where you have to hold up a wall for a time period while people get out, or break through stone to get to the people trapped.
Flying combat!
Yes, by having combat in the air it means many heroes cannot take place in it unless they can fly… too bad I say! Flight is cool, why ground it by having all combat down low so the flier has to come back to earth? Combat 20,000 feet in the air, with plans passing buy is cool!
Body moves:
What I mean is that when you make your character and you give them a form, that form doesn’t change. Yes the arms move, but if you are picking up a massive bit of rock, the muscles don’t bulge. they are kind of always bulging even when you are sitting and having a cup of tea. Yes, power armour and robots maybe fixed shape, but humans/mutants/most aliens, are not and having some basic “relaxed” look where you are normal sized and then “effort” look when the muscles look to be actually trying would be cool.
Arch Enemy:
Loved the Arch Enemy idea, an enemy you make up that causes you issues as well as minions they use. Even having allies that come along to help you out while cool, isn’t as cool as knowing that you have stopped these people s plans enough that they personally want to stop you.
The World Changes:
If you fail, these are issues that occur. You fail to stop a bad guy’s rampage, then costs on items go up. You fail to stop some ploy, then there are heaps more baddies around so you can’t even rest without someone jumping you. People start to boo or it is spread over newspapers that you failed! Rub in a fail, reward success.
Injury!
You have been defeated... you actually hobble around or your left arm is limp and can’t be used for a period. Ok, not for very long or you can’t re-do the mission or what not, but looking like you are hurt. Cuts actually damage your costume and you need to repair it. Maybe a bloodied nose.
Natural Disasters:
They happen, great time for a hero to be a hero. Earth quack area, flood area with people to save! Not just run around and beat up bad guys, but able to run around “timed mission” to get people, or Holding up that collapsing building or building a wall to stop the water…. Making a trench to stop the lava…
Weapons:
I am sure there will be weapons and lots of them, just saying Chain is a cool. Cool to swing around, cool to wrap up an enemy, or bunch around your fist to punch someone.
Too tired, can’t think... night all.
First person view with the fighting stile like dc universe would be fun to have in the game
Some more general ideas for the game that I would like to see.
Voices:
I would love for my character to have a voice! To speak during conversation, not just read. Having a deep voice or a high pitch voice, Streetwise voice, army voice, Robot voice… emotional, funny, serious, crazy… etc
Having a “Back ground” that creates the basic of the voice and what words the voices uses (Army slang, street slang, highly educated, highly uneducated, Wrestler, Construction worker to person behind a counter.) Then a pitch meter to make it deep or high pitch and then being able to choose Human, Robotic, Alien Bug type…
Themes:
I would also like themes. What I mean is that when you choose your powers can choose an overriding theme as well. If you choose fire, then all your powers come of Fire, when you fly... it is due to fire, when you heal, it is due to fire. Being able to have a theme doesn’t mean it has to be enforced, but would be cool to be able to set a general theme so any and all powers I get are linked to that central theme. (Sound powers, fly by screaming…)
Backgrounds:
Being a mutant is different than experimented upon, is different than soldier with perfect skills, compared to rich guy with power armour, compared to magic guy, divine guy etc. I would like to see interaction base don’t his. You walk into a room of “magic” people and you are a mutant, they barley pay any attention to you or speak to you... but the magic based character walks in and they get smiles and people open up a bit around them. A huge alien bug walks in, people freak until your fame gets up high enough.
History coming back to haunt you:
Combination of a super villain you take down, jumping up and taking a shot at you while you are fighting for your life, or teaming up with some open you have been sent to go after. But also things like, choosing “Army soldier, experimented upon” means the military show up asking you to do things for them. You can say no, but things become hard for you until you either do the mission or have a throw down. (The throw down may not be violent, hacking into their computer systems and removing the missions…).
Investigation/Stealth type missions:
Not just, go beat up that guy, but other kind of missions. Sneak into this base, hack the pc and change the information or get information. Go to this social party and gather information needed for someone (base location, best time to go to the base when people are away etc.)
Oooooo… players can ask for you to do it!!!! A player is about to go on a mission, I is a bit high level for them, you can post a request for someone to “stealth/Hack” the mission to help you. The other player does their mission, either to get data you need, or set something up like thugs having to leave before you get there to make it easier, getting a limited use weapon to use against the Boss etc.
You could also add the Crafting into this. Not just “Make a gun” but a gun that has limited uses against a set Boss, helping to do the missions easier.
The World changes:
NPCs change, they hand over their role to someone else, the Mayor changes based on peoples votes (which can make it easier or harder on players), winter the place has snow, summer it is hot, it rains and people try to rush inside or move around with umbrellas. A living world that exists. People don’t just stand there with yellow marks above their heads, they have conversations/arguments, rush off and if you follow they ask for help or demand to know why you are following them. Maybe someone is up to no good, by stealthing after the npc you can find the warehouse they are holding their victims in.
I agree with the world changing with the seasons and such. That would be cool to see.
Would love for it to look like a pretty Korean MMO!
I personally disagree, mostly because while I do look the KRPG aesthetic sometimes, I feel like it may not be a good fit for this game (since it appears to be following mostly Western comics). Personally, I'd like to see something like the Timmverse/DCAU art style more than a real "modern comics"
And as far as other thoughts:
I'd also like to hear player voices. Maybe have a few set voices and a couple of dials you can turn for depth/breathiness/robotness/etc.?
Villains should get a chance to be [b]real villains[/b]. Not asking for gratuitous violence and/or sleaze, but a chance to do real evil. This applies for NPC villains, too. Don't just have them kidnap a debutante. Have them hold a kid over lava. Make the threats more real, and the consequences (even if they're largely aesthetic) just as real. The key, I think, would be scale:
Destroy the world? Cartoonishly overblown. Steal a kid's bicycle? Comedically petty. Threaten to blow up a building? Credible evil.
Another factor is motives. If the bad guy is just putting evil in his evil so he can evil while he evils, he'd better be a force of nature, or otherwise incapable of more complicated motives. If he's in it for profit, or revenge, or hate, then it's a lot easier to conceive of his personality, and gives him a little more depth.
I agree! A Villain you spend 5 missions trying to defeat as he steals components, and you find out he is trying to save his child. Do you help him steal the last component? If you do, he may save the child and then be happy to go to prison... or you don't help him, have an epic battle, he goes to jail but his child dies... You may not want this too much, every now and then a Villain with a good reason with choices.
Ironically the main reason City of Hero (the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes#City_of_Hero] Korean version of CoH[/url]) apparently failed was that it was considered too "western" by its Korean beta testers.
Having said that while I might want CoT to retain a somewhat "western" comic book style I wouldn't mind if it incorporated the many slider options and other GUI improvements Korean MMOs have been able to perfect in the last few years.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Some good ideas. I would like another stab at the arch villain idea. A true nemesis. Not create and forget and maybe pop up once or twice if one is lucky by level 40 or only way to summon them is by destroying furniture (although I made it work and have Nemesis called The Chairman.) But seriously, if archvillain for the player is to be implemnted make sure it works as intended and proper and interesting.
Also like the tactic idea of enemy groups. While it's nice to go in and either click glowy or beat up big bad dude that is seemingly always in the last room while in the meantime wading through different named and skinned enemy groups but the bare bones they all act the same, it gets pretty monotonous after while. I think some should be braver than other groups. It sounded silly in COX when the descriptions says they are fearless and relentless yet first thing they do is tuck tail and flee. Or supposedly this big powerful guy and spend more time playing tag than actually fighting. Especially the werewolves supposedly near uncontrollable berserk yet fleeing across the map for no reason once so ever. Let the enemy use some sort of variety of tactics with mission goals varying beyond the usual, beat up big baddy at the end, clear map, click glowy, or attempt to lead some really seemingly idiotic hostage across the map with the predictable" ambushes".
And yeah villains, let villains be villains. In COV some of the missions were a bit...questionable on the villainous level. So I get all the way up to 40 nearly at the top of my game, and you want me to burn some school books? Really? I could have done that at level 1. Let villains break out on their own for their own purposes. Instead of some 45-50 level villain trying to earn the favor of some over confident civilian weakling that even the weakest super powered villain can rip in half. Somewhere mid point, there should be an option somewhere that the villain stop working for others and more so focus on the player. AKA less errands that looks like it seems are simply tasks the main NPC villains find beneath their notice and relative menial tasks. Or in short, less errand boy/girl and more super villain.
An art style similar to TERA's would work well. Blade and Soul not so much.
Ooooooor maybe an art style similar to CoH? Considering that we are its spitirual successor
I don't get mad, I restructure the laws of quantum physics and resolve the situation with temporal engineering.
Yeah but there's probably a fine line between making CoT "similar" to CoH and IP infringment with NCsoft. Just saying that CoT will likely end up looking "roughly similar" to CoH but there will be differences, even if those differences are only based on the fact that the graphics engine being used for CoT is at least 10+ years newer than CoH.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Then there is no issue. We just aim towards the style amd the engine makes the difference.
I don't get mad, I restructure the laws of quantum physics and resolve the situation with temporal engineering.
Assuming NCsoft's lawyers buy that "excuse" and decide not to sue I'd be all for it. *shrugs*
Still for various reasons I suspect there'll be other artistic differences beyond just the basic graphics engines used. I'm quite sure when the time comes there will be forum threads discussing the differences and there'll be people who love the changes and other people who'll hate that it doesn't look 100% identical to CoH... This is the Internet after all. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
They don't own any style of art, ergo: they can't sue us. The most probable thing we'll get sued for is our hero1 rip-off fest. And even that is unlikely.
I know what you are saying about these changes. No one seems to get that the devs are treading a fine line between "spiritual successor" and "just another cruddy superhero mmo."
I don't get mad, I restructure the laws of quantum physics and resolve the situation with temporal engineering.
Eh, since when did little things like "proper ownership" stop lawyers from trying to sue poeople? Don't get me wrong - I'm not seriously expecting or fearing that NCsoft will sue MWM over CoT. But the cynical side of me knows that the chances of it happening are at least greater than 0% all things considered. *shrugs*
I'm expecting MWM will do their very best to make a good looking game regardless. I don't need CoT to be a 100% identical clone of CoH to be worth playing but I'd agree that it would be nice if they could keep things looking more like CoH than say CO for instance.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Frankly, I'm more worried about some monolithic company like EA slapping them with a suit over name conflict with Titanfall, for instance. They don't even need to worry about winning the suit. They have tons of money and a regiment of lawyers that could keep a comparatively shoestring operation like MWM tied up in court until they just run out of money. OR force them to change names and revise all of their marketing, etc.
A company like that could do such a thing for no other reason than to limit competition. Not that EA is likely to miss the comparatively small market share that CoT is likely to gather, but it would be such a small thing for them, and a disaster for us.
This does beg the question as to whether there are any other "superhero MMOs" on the horizon. We know about the existing CO, DCUO and the Marvel Heroes games - are there likely to be any other big-name hero-oriented games trying to start up in the next few years besides CoT?
While I agree any big game company might decide to yank MWM's chain just for fun I'd still think NCsoft is our most likely nemesis in that regard.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Well, I wasn't sure of the political advisability of mentioning this in these forums. But, since you ask...
I stumbled on this a few weeks ago. Eerily familiar. Anybody know what is going on here? Is there any connection? Even some of the nomenclature is similar...
http://www.heroes-and-villains.com
How do you not know about this and Valiance Online? They were made alongside CoT by other fans to create a spiritual successor. Valiance wants to create a near clone of CoH, while there was some creative difference (the devs never explained) between CoT and HaV.
I don't get mad, I restructure the laws of quantum physics and resolve the situation with temporal engineering.
Yeah I didn't mention Valiance Online or Heroes and Villains because those two efforts are kind of in the same boat as CoT is in relation to NCsoft. All three of these are self-announced "spiritual successors" to CoH so I figure all three of them are technically as vulnerable to being sued by NCsoft as much as by any other company.
For what it's worth I believe Golden Girl (the main person behind HaV) was initially working with the CoT folks but soon parted ways and went off to do her own thing. I understand the people behind VO and HaV have every right to do their own thing, but in the long run I'd actually like to see all these efforts unify behind one title to give it the best chance of success. It's going to be hard enough for any one of these to make it without spliting the potential playerbase three separate ways.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'd like to see the Democrats, Republicans and Libertarians put down their respective mud cannons and work like adults. I'm not really confident that's going to happen.
From what little I have gleaned it comes down to relatively small yet important differences in opinion. All three want to create 'spiritual successors' to our dearly departed game but all three have differences in how they think that should be done. What the differences are doesn't matter...just that they exist.
I'm not sure about Valiance but the other two projects seem close enough that you would think they could find a compromise. You would think we could have a balanced budget too but go figure...
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
And Scarlet Blade is right out ....
If that becomes a real danger then the simplest way around that would be to (re)register the company in a different country. Not that the big multinationals can not sue in any country they choose, but a lot of other countries have justice systems that are a bit less corrupt (or more kindly phrased: slanted towards the richest party in court). A lot of countries have a system in place where a party can ask for an intermediate injunction if they can reasonably argue that their opponents is merely trying to sue them into bankruptcy. Not much fun sueing somebody if the judge orders you to fund your opponents defense until such time as (s)he can make a final judgement on the case.
Ireland has (or used to have) a decent game development scene. The Netherlands does too (though they are more geared towards instructional games than entertainment).
And if you want to really go to extremes, I can not imagine that Venezuela is currently a big fan of American (government or mega corporations). Which at least will give you a fairer hearing in the courts than in the city in the USA that depends on the goodwill of the mega corporation that sues you.
The analogy to politics is fine but I see it a little more akin to something like the different denominations of a particular religion. At one perfect moment there was probably some semblance of unity amongst all the folks who wanted to create a "spiritual successor" to CoH. But as soon as the differences of opinion arose people started splitting off to do their own thing. In some respects it's sort of amazing there are only the three main groups at this point (CoT, VO and HaV) instead of there being 5, 10 or more.
For what it's worth I'm not specifically expecting that the key organizers of the three groups will gladly drop whatever they're doing today and instantly form a united single company to produce a single game. But I do hope that as time goes on that maybe once one of these efforts becomes the "clear frontrunner" that the other two groups will graciously accept that reality and at the very least do nothing to overtly sabotage or bleed support away from the effort that's most likely to succeed. I guess time will tell if something reasonable like that's going to happen. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Follow the gourd!
Spurn all ye kindle.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym-k5viJ7tA]No! No! No! The shoe is the sign![/url]
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]