There's been a lot of chit-chat lately about Swinging as a Travel Power. The thing is ... how would it WORK and how would it be CONTROLLED?
The physics of swinging are relatively straightforward, conceptually speaking. It's basically a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum][b]Pendulum[/b][/url] of a variable "arm" length which can be shortened or lengthened as desired while swinging. In order to use swinging for travel purposes, movement of the pivot point is necessary so as to continuously "swing" towards the desired destination. In terms of movement patterns, the physics of swinging winds up being a lot like "jumping upside down" in that the path of motion is essentially a series of arches (just like jumping) except that the "joins" of the arches happen up in the air, rather than on the ground.
Running the physics as a pendulum then, what is needed for controls is the ability to assign the Pivot Point, which will require a "surface" to attach to (unless if you're REALLY super powered and can use "air anchors" as your pivot points!), and the ability to REassign the Pivot Point extremely quickly if need be, in rapid succession, so as to negotiate through tightly confined spaces. The other control that is necessary is being able to "winch" the swing cable either in or out, at will, so as to shorten or lengthen the pendulum arm.
Note that with these two control effects ... rapid selection of Pivot Points and rapid lengthening/shortening of the pendulum arm ... you'll have a movement system that essentially favors a more "twitchy" style of Player intensive gameplay control, and I would argue that that is "okay" because it many respects there will be aspects of the power that will track with how Teleportation ought to work (at least in terms of rapid re-use of the Power to keep moving).
So taking a holistic look at how a Swinging Travel Power would have to be built, and using the familiar City of Heroes conceptual set for how Powers ought to "work" here's how I'd want to put a Swinging Travel Power together from end to end.
Pivot Point selection would have to work on a Target: Location basis, because nothing else makes sense or gives the necessary freedom of movement. Furthermore, due to the Power needing to interact with the Environment, rather than a Character, the only thing that really *could* work would be a Target: Location setup for designating a Pivot Point.
I would want the Swinging Power to function as a Toggle with a near zero Recharge time, although NOT a near zero animation time (this distinction is important). When the Power is toggled on, the Swing Line is fired (animated) at the Target: Location and the Pivot Point is designated. When the Power is toggled off, the Swing Line "releases" from the Pivot Point and can then be *immediately* toggled on again to select a new Pivot Point. The animation of the Swing Line being fired would make the most sense to be handled as a Projectile, which in turn would mean that the Power is "quicker" and more "responsive" when animating to Pivot Points that are close by, rather than far away. This in turn would mean that "nearby" Pivot Points can be "grabbed onto" much faster than distant ones, simply by virtue of the Projectile speed determining the delay of the animation time of toggling on the Power.
Remember that in City of Heroes, one of the more common and popular keybinds was the "Teleport Bind" which allowed Players to Teleport with a mouse click. I personally used LShift+LMouse as my keybind for Teleporting on all of my characters with Teleport (including my Peacekeeper and Warshade bindloadfiles). A similar system could be used here to control the toggling of the Swing Power on and off. It is important for the Pivot Point to be run through a "toggle" because doing so allows the Player maximum control over the placement and duration of use for Pivot Points, which will be especially useful and necessary when coming to a controlled stop (known in aviation schools as "landing") or otherwise reducing speed so as to resume moving on foot (or whatever). Swinging would be a SKILL that the Player would need to learn and master.
The other part of the equation would be the control of the pendulum arm length. Here, it would be possible to repurpose the Forward and Backward control movements used for running to be instead interpreted as shortening or lengthening the pendulum arm length, and indeed the underlying notion is that the Swinging Power would allow this adjustement of the pendulum arm length to happen quite rapidly indeed (particularly if Enhanced)! So while the Swing Line Power is toggled on, the Forward and Backward control movements no long operate in the standard "running" or even "flying" configuration, but rather automatically switch over to being Swing Line Control. Left/Right and Strafing movement control movements [i]will be unaffected[/i] since those may be needed for fine tuning and "finesse" of movements (although don't expect a whole lot of "movement friction" to help with those).
The last two limitations are that while the Swing Line Power is toggled on, there must be a clear line of sight between the Caster of the Power and the Pivot Point the entire time. If due to motion the Line of Sight is broken (swinging around a corner, for instance) then the Swing Line Power automatically toggles off (because the line broke, or whatever). The other limitation is that if the Caster [i]impacts a surface[/i], whether it be horizontal or vertical, with sufficient velocity to incur "Falling Damage" then the Swing Line Power will toggle off ... so if you swing yourself into the ground and belly flop into the pavement (for faceplanting example), the Power will disengage. However, if you stand "near" a building and fire your Swing Line towards the top of it, your Swing Line Power will not toggle off just because you're standing on the ground, thereby allowing you to shorten your pendulum arm fast enough to either begin swinging or to just simply use your Swing Line as a basic "winch" to get you up towards the top of the building fairly quickly in a rope and grappling hook fashion for climbing.
So ... toggle on/off to Target: Location to assign Pivot Points, and repurpose the Forward/Backward movement controls so as to be able to control the pendulum arm length. The Swing Line Power will have a maximum range between the Caster and the Target: Location of the Pivot Point, which can be increased using Range Enhancements (which will also increase the Projectile speed making animation times to a benchmark reference distance faster). The speed at which the pendulum arm length can be shortened or lengthened can be enhanced using Buff Enhancements (which in [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/29594#comment-29594]My System of Enhancements[/url] would apply to ALL movement Powers universally, including Running, Jumping and Flying). Note that with sufficiently fast pendulum arm length control an extraordinarily wide variety of truly dizzying movement feats could be performed (bring on the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirque_de_soleil]Cirque de Soleil[/url] skill levels), up to and including highly "ballistic" movements of great speed.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OkpRK2_gVs][b]Attack On Titan Opening[/b][/url] now becomes *obligatory* for demonstration of working principles (Dual Blades powerset and 3D Maneuver Gear costume pieces also desired for authentic Scrapperlock Awesomeness). Extra Bonus Points granted to Developers who define [b]Giant Monsters[/b] as [i]legal targets for Swing Line Pivot Points[/i] using Target: Location functionality!
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Or just use it like in CO?
Why should we do that? We have a chance to do better.
I don't get mad, I restructure the laws of quantum physics and resolve the situation with temporal engineering.
Because, I thought people didn't care for genre specifics and wanted just fun things. People love Swingline in CO, even without having an anchor point.
Mind you, if they keep everything to just the city, shouldn't be that hard to keep swingliners swinging, but what about out in deserts, over the water?
I would be willing to try a good Swing mechanic. CO's isn't bad but what about compared to other movement powers?
In the interest of balance, CoH tried to keep the movement powers distinctive. Superspeed was reportedly the fastest in straight-line travel because it lacked the vertical travel of other powers. Teleport was the fastest but took a lot of End and so on. If we do this then Swinging should be balanced against the other movement powers. But it won't work well indoors unless you're in a large area. So where's the balance factor?
Control should be the answer. How many times have we seen Spidey out-maneuver some flying bad guy by making a sharp turn or stop? Swinging, done well, should be fast enough to compare with basic flight but have tighter control IMHO.
I don't think that it matters that the power will require practice. Teleport will too to use it well. Many powersets that used combos in CoH took a bit of getting used to but they worked well. I see no problem with Swinging being somewhat tougher to use but being more useful once you get the hang of it.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
Not everyone here in these forums has played Champions Online or knows how Swinging "works" in that game. Care to explain why such a system would be "superior" to all other alternatives (complete with examples and mechanics)?
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Happy New Year!
I am totally not a Tech and have no idea what those guys are planning for this.
One implementation I was daydreaming for this was sort of a 'dynamic cutscene' version.
There would be semi-invisible 'swing paths' through the city. When activating the power, you would choose a destination (probably via 'landing points that would light up in your view, but maybe also at map level). You would then, in an automagical, hands free way, make your way toward your destination using these paths (using pre-rendered animations that were cinematic based on the environment).
However, it would be dynamic in that at any time you could cancel the travel (probably retaining momentum) to react to something you see along the way.
A balancer for the power would be a built in attack move: even in non-city environments, you could tag a target with the 'line' and zip over to it (or maybe drag it over to yourself).
______________
IANAL, IMHO, WYSIWYG, YMMV, IIRC, AFAIK, ETC
[color=#ff0000]Composition Assistant Director, Composition Team[/color]
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Kinda like Everquest II. In that game the fast travel method (hippogryph, I believe, though it may have been a gryphon) came with the option to jump off during flight, which made for convenient shortcuts. The thought went through my head (I'd be exaggerating to say I actually thought about it) of having some kind of option, perhaps even a travel power in its own right, that allows players to move three or four times faster than the 'normal' travel power for the sole purpose of getting from Point A to Point B. Travel paths are probably the most elegant solution and would not need to be restricted to one type of travel power.
Ultimately it's a question of how fast the devs want players to be able to get around. Extended travel times - even if that means the gryphon loops around three-quarters of the city before landing - are a common time sink.[color=red]*[/color]
[color=red]*[/color] Jumping off flying critters notwithstanding, mounts in Everquest II struck me to be ridiculously expensive. I say that coming from having experience with mounts vanilla WoW and The Burning Crusade. EQII was by no means a small game, so getting from place to place by running (or even the meager 20% speed boost available to some classes) was a non-negligible time sink.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Sure! I don't know if I know the right words for it though.
Toggle on the power. Now when you press and hold the spacebar, you shoot out a line that you are now hanging from, the pivot point is straight up.
You then can swing on it by pressing the movement keys, including doing a complete 360.
On the CoH forums a lot complained about how that would ruin immersion (and it might for some) but I find many on CO enjoy it. And likely trying to make out anchor points through the whole city for an MMO would likely be more work than what the devs here can accomplish.
So, basically, "air anchors" with no requirements for a Target: Location confined to a surface.
Well, that's probably the "cheapest" way to do it, in terms of computing resources, requirements and limitations. Sort of a "don't worry, be happy" kind of thing that "can't be bothered" with trying to make it work WITH the environment, so you wind up making it work IN SPITE OF the environment so that it doesn't have an obvious drawback (ie. no high anchor points to Pivot from).
The other thing to remember is that Champions Online is running on a Cryptic Engine, so it's entirely possible that the situation you describe was the best they could do at "fudging" their way towards achieving Swinging, since the City of Heroes game engine somewhat notoriously had a variety of problems with accommodating Swinging due to how physics got modeled under the hood. It always sounded like to me that the reason why Swinging couldn't "work" in City of Heroes was related to the reason why Knock effects only went "away" and not "towards" something (ie. "away" from the Caster or "away" from the Nadir direction of gravity).
The thing is, the Unreal Engine doesn't "suffer" from those same limitations, since under the hood it is designed to have a functioning physics modeling going on ... meaning that stuff like Pendulums (and therefore, Swinging) ought to be far better supported by the game engine itself.
As for the idea of having "Swing Roads" to move around on ... think [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaCU-PirRag]George of the Jungle[/url] ... it isn't entirely without merit, although I wouldn't want it to be limited to just Swinging. One of the things that I thought would have been interesting to include in Tabula Rasa (and every game I've played since then) would be that the "quality" of the space you're moving on/through could influence your travel speed. Put more simply, the notion is that you Run faster on pavement (including sidewalks), and Jump farther/faster in areas that are relatively "clear" of landing hazards and so on, or Fly faster when the sky is clear (not foggy) and there are no structures nearby to impact. Something broadly similar could be done with Swinging so as to create an analogous "Swing Road" where use of a Swing Power through these "corridors" would be, in effect, a faster/more efficient path to travel.
Now, just to be clear, I'm suggesting what amounts to an Environmentally Defined "buff zone" that has specific parameters governing its shape (follows only the major roads, etc.) which would show up as a Buff Icon on your Buff Bar when you meet the conditions to be affected, and it would only have a "minor" effect, like say +10% Movement Speed or something ... enough to be FELT but not enough to be game changing. That way, the environment *itself* "rewards Players for moving around the environment in ways that make sense, rather than just simply making bee-lines between Point A and Point B without a care in the world for anything in-between. Superspeeders would [i]tend to Run[/i] on the roads, rather than on the dirt/grass/sand/whatever.
Indeed, you could even extend this idea of Environmentally Defined Movement Modifiers to include -10% just as easily as +10%, and even define things in a 5% step process, so you'd have:
[list][*]-10% hazardous movement
[*]-5% inhibited movement
[*]0% normal movement
[*]+5% aided movement
[*]+10% easy movement[/list]
It would then just be a matter of setting up "invisible pipes" through the city zones where these modifiers apply, and you could overlap them for definitions of different movement types ... Running on the ground (requires contact with a ground surface), "tall" Jumping blocks that extend upwards from the ground, Swing "pipes" that are suspended above street level between buildings, Flying "airspaces" that exclude (tall) buildings and structures that begin well above ground level (I'm thinking 100+ meters above ground level), and so on. There wouldn't be any visual FX or animations for being inside of one of these areas, just a Buff Icon to tell you that you're in one, and the fact that your character moves faster or slower due to WHERE they are in the zone.
Yes, it's an extra layer of complexity for the World Builders making the zones, but it's also something that will pay off down the line by adding diversity to nagivation around the city, simply because some routes will be "faster" than others, even if they're slightly longer. Want to fly faster? Go higher. Want to run/drive faster? Stick to the road instead of going cross country. Want to jump farther/faster? Leap from flat open spaces instead of stairs or slopes or "cluttered" areas. That sort of thing. An adjustment of -10% to +10% isn't enough to "ruin" Powers for people, but it is enough to "reward" them for moving with their Powers in ways that are "sensible" rather than simply expedient (due to their being no downsides or upsides on "where" to go).
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I recall them saying on the CoH forums, it was about them wanting to do swingline right by adding anchor points to spots where one could attach a swingline to, and not wanting to do the swingline to nothingness that CO does. For realism!
Though obviously what everyone considers realistic, how things would play out, and what to compromise on, is different for everyone. So, we'd have to wait to see how the CoT devs decide to go.
the swing line like in C/O or the acrobatics in DC would work fine as long as we are in a city with tall buildings, it wont look right in suburbarama with 0ne and two story houses if there is going to be any, I loved most of the city zones in COX, but Croatoa,Perez Park, and the Hollows seemed a bit off, dont get me wrong, I loved the zones for what it was and I know big cities has parks like Central park and so forth. I guess the zone that really didn't fit in was Croatoa. The buildings were low and its like you got transported to Halloween land.
One of the limitations of the City of Heroes engine was that it prevented Players from "landing" on objects that moved ... things like cars, vans, sailboats, blimps and so on. If it moved, you couldn't "park" on it. That's why the big tanker/cargo ships that you COULD walk around on were stationary. It also meant you couldn't "hop a ride" on a delivery truck and let it take you around town.
That need not be the case in City of Titans.
It's entirely possible that City of Titans could be set up such that "vehicles" (whether PC controlled or not) are simply "mobile objects" ... which potentially could be legal targets for Target: Location stuff like Swing Lines. In a 2D surface street sense then, a Swing Line wouldn't necessarily HAVE TO go "up" ... but could instead be used in a purely horizontal fashion like a tow cable. Set up the PC with some sort of "Running slider" ability or animation (I'm thinking skateboard just for purposes of simplicity of illustration) and you'd be all set for using a Swing Line in only 2 dimensions instead of 3, and you'd be able to use your control over the pendulum arm length to determine how close/far you're getting pulled behind the Pivot Point (just watch out for the turns!).
Some kinds of "vehicles" (or "mounts" if that's your preferred terminology) would be legal targets for the Target: Location use of Swing Lines ... such as motorcycles, cars, trucks, speedboats (waterskiing!), blimps, C-130 "Hercules" (think [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_surface-to-air_recovery_system]Fulton surface to air recovery system[/url]) and possibly even hoverboards(!) ... while others would not be legal targets ... such as, say, horses, dire wolves, or indeed any other "riding animal" that wouldn't take kindly to be harpooned (except, maybe, a whale, but then a whale would qualify as either a Monster or a Giant Monster (if white)).
So if you look at Swing Lines as being "more" than just a way to "swing" from high places, because the Power can also be used to "tow" the Caster around, you start getting some very interesting combinations and applications. The key though is to get the Swing Line Power to "work" using pendulum physics, rather than "faking it" like Champions Online apparently does.
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http://cityoftitans.com/comment/21613#comment-21613
:)
Keep in mind people, they're using the unreal 3 engine.
My suggestion, make it work kind of like attack on titan, they already made maneuver gear in second life, you just go into first person mode, or have an aiming reticle for 3rd when using this, and when they swing it pulls them towards where they aimed and would be effected by momentum, so if you want to swing around a corner, you have to pull relatively in the direction you want to go, then at the last moment, switch your anchor to the corner you want to go around, and momentum will do the rest, so long as you let go and pull yourself in the new direction.
It's really not all that difficult, if a fan can make it in second life of all things, unreal 3 can easily pull it off. Plus it would be loads of fun to use, not the most practical, but fun all the same.
Been noodling over this attachment point puzzle. There is a spider (will try to look it up and post a video later) that uses a strand of webbing not as a rope to climb but as a sort of skinny sail. A fairly small amount of wind bows the strand and creates lift. They can then sort of paraglide to their intended LZ. With that scenario no attachment point is even needed.
-joe
Repeat Offender
Tank Addict
Homeless.
No... no Magical gimmick.
Must use Technology to swing!! ;D
That's not at all uncommon among Spiders. However, there's something of a ... scaling problem ... of the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_cube_law]Square/Cube Law[/url] variety when taking that idea up to "human sized" ... even when you're just talking about human infants, let alone "adults" piloting several tons of giant mecha.
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Actually think the CO swingline works very well, it does appear to have been designed for maximum fun rather than being an engine limitation.
The idea of swinging being a skill, requiring learning and work would put it at odds with all the other travel powers.
Requiring special landscape modifications - I'm thinking of Bioshock Infinite and its use of the grapplehook here - is also something you wouldn't want, it further restricts a travel power.
If it wasn't a permanent travel power, it could be selectively used in missions to overcome obstacles, solve physical puzzles. That would allow the level of complexity it really deserves. Combine it with a parachute drop for some landings.
If people won't pay enough to finance its creation, it is not worth creating.
/Segev
While realism has its place we are not striving for real world physics. We are striving for something that feels heroic. To say nothing of the fact that power gamers care about little outside final effect and role players most likely already have a feasible explanation baked into their character concept.
-joe
Repeat Offender
Tank Addict
Homeless.
*cough*
Teleport.
*cough*
Heck, I'd argue that Leaping in City of Heroes required a level of skill and "twitchy" reflexes in order to not embarrass yourself (particularly in the Shadow Shard!) ... even if all you were using was Ninja Run. Pretty much the only Movement Power that was brain dead simple to use was Hover (hence why I loved 6-slot Hover starting in Issue 3).
The whole Target: Location setup I talked about in my original post would not REQUIRE any "special" landscape modifications at all.
Don't get me wrong ... there would be particular structural designs, patterns and placements that would be [i]advantageous to Swinging[/i] ... just like how streets that run in long straight lines (without obstructions) are advantageous to Superspeed Running.
As for the "what do I do if the environment doesn't support Swinging?" question ... I thought I tried to answer that by pointing out that there could be [i]plenty of Targets[/i] that could be used as Pivot Points [i]which are not themselves stationary[/i] ... things like vehicles that move around the zones and maps (and thus "pull you around too").
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But when you could make it work... Ninja SAM.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Damnit Lin! You KNOW that every time you mention that it makes me giggle!
Okay, for the benefit of the rest of you, since this is something of an in-joke between the two of us, we were on a [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Citadel_Task_Force]Citadel Task Force[/url] and had completed a Mission in far southwest Independence Port. I was playing Ms Givings, my Mind Control/Empathy Controller (at that time, I later rerolled her as Mind Control/Kinetics), and Lin was playing a Dark/Dark Scrapper who worked for [url=http://ninjaburger.com/]Ninja Burger[/url] ([i]Guaranteed delivery in 30 minutes or less, or we commit Seppuku![/i]) whose $Battlecy was ... "Delivery!"
Anyway ... we'd finished our mission and the next place to go to was in another zone, so I was Hovering my way off east to get around the southern end of [url=http://paragonwiki.com/w/images//d/d3/Map_IndependencePort.jpg]Power Island[/url] when a Council Ambush spawned in and decided that *I* (the Controller) was going to be their Designated Victim). The nasty thing was, most of what was coming after me was ... Robots ... who were, of course, highly resistant to Psionics, and pretty much all of my attack Powers at that point did Psionic damage. So I Hover my way up high (like blue fields of the War Walls high), so that only the [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/5th_Column#Steel_Valkyrie]Steel Valkyrie[/url]s can continue to harass me and I just sit up there, plinking away with my mental attack Powers on robots that are highly resistant to mental attacks, because I don't want to leave this ambush "lying around" in the Zone for someone else to stumble across and have to deal with. Meanwhile, EVERYONE ELSE on the team is just rushing off to go hit the Tram or whatever to zone (think we had to go to Talos Island or whatever next).
So Lin (not playing Lin Chiao Feng) notices that I'm parked and figures I'm probably having to deal with an ambush and no one is coming out to help me ... so Lin comes over, spots the groundpounders clustered up under me (since they couldn't go "UP" to reach me) and in true Scrapper fashion quickly dispatches them. Up where I was a couple hundred feet up above the ground, it just looked like this black puffball of Ninja-ness arrived and SWALLOWED the ambush that was milling around underneath me. Meanwhile, I'm still plinking away at the Steel Valkyries harassing me, and managed to FINALLY defeat *ONE* of them, leaving only one left up by me. So I target lock the remaining Steel Valkyrie up by me and resume plinking it for pitiful poor damage (this was prior to [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Containment#Containment]Containment[/url] so Controllers took FOREVER to defeat anything, let alone stuff that was resistant to your damage type!) and since I didn't need to keep my camera aimed at my $Target, I looked down to see how the Ninja Burger Deliverygirl was doing ... just in time to see the last of the groundpounders in the ambush go down.
Then the [b]NINJA SAM[/b] launched!
Now when Lin (and I) say "Ninja SAM" ... that's literally what it looked like. It looked like a [b]SURFACE TO AIR MISSILE[/b] of inky black cloud Of Hatred (+2!) ROCKET LAUNCHING itself [i]straight up[/i] towards me and the Steel Valkyrie I was plinking away at. That's because Lin's scrapper had [url=http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/powers/power.php?id=Pool.Leaping.Long_Jump&at=Class_Scrapper]Super Jump[/url] as a travel power, and with all the Dark Armor toggles running was just this black puffball cloud of [b]NASTINESS[/b] that ballistically [i]hurled itself into the sky[/i] ... and because of how the visual FX of Dark Armor animated, the FX [i]trailed upwards[/i] in a way that looked *exactly* like a rocket launch, except [b]BLACK[/b] and filled with [b]HATRED[/b]!
What had happened was that Lin looked up, located the Steel Valkyrie I was still engaging, selected it as $Target, hit [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Follow]Follow[/url] so as to "autopilot" directly to it, which put her vertically underneath it, turned on Super Jump, and then just JUMPED straight up ... like a Rocket Of Ninja Evil™. Lin cued up [url=http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/powers/power.php?id=Scrapper_Melee.Dark_Melee.Shadow_Maul]Shadow Maul[/url] on the way up ... so as soon as Lin got into melee range, the "Ninja SAM" effectively [i]exploded[/i] into a flurry of fists ... that one shotted the Steel Valkyrie!
And then I got to watch [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa_experiment]Galileo's Gravity Experiment[/url] happen right in front of me! The Steel Valkyrie exploded into a death animation and started tumbling towards the ground (which was a LONG way away). In exactly the same instant, Lin's character, completely enshrouded in Dark Armor FX, [b]*also*[/b] started falling at the exact same time ... with the exact same speed and acceleration. So the two of them fell to the ground in tandem beside each other ... with the Ninja landing in a cloud of darkness (unharmed) and the Steel Valkyrie tumbling uncontrollably to smash in a heap on the rocks on the ground.
It was one of the most hilarious things I ever saw in City of Heroes, and it happened in the first year the game was out. Ever since then, all Lin has to do is say the magic words "Ninja SAM" and I just can't stop grinning at the memory of seeing a Ninja Surface to Air Missile launch itself straight up like a black smoky rocket, beat the crap out of a flying robot, fall down right beside the spinning wreckage and land with it alongside while I'm trying not to fall out of my chair laughing myself silly.
Yeah ... any game that can't do a Ninja SAM isn't a "real" successor to City of Heroes! *^_^*
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I once had a teammate do the same thing, minus the inky blackness but plus the fiery goodness. Several bad guys were harassing me as I flew and she caught up to them and set off her Nuke.
The team said they saw the glow from the ground and though I was the one who exploded. Yeah...I wanna game that lets us do that...
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
[youtube]u6MTS5sj3Jo[/youtube]
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I like the ideas he presents after 11:30 when he starts to discuss what could be improved with existing games.
I'm not sure if CoT is going to have swinging mode or just make thier zipline like the way it was implemented in DCUO, which was pretty stellar but was very linear without any actual swinging or any effects of gravity..
As far as City of Titans goes, if it does include swinging, I like the idea that we give our players an "easy mode" for their basic first-tier swinging movement. This mode basically does the thinking for the player and gets them from point A to point B with merely the press of the forward button and maybe some other effort. But if the player wants to go faster, they have to adopt things like converting potential energy into kinetcic energy and back. So more advanced levels of the travel power in game would permit faster swinging, manual control of web engagement (allowing the player to control when to let go), etc. The downside of these advanced levels is that there is a learning curve and a consequence to mistakes. I think the reward for players to master a skills-based movement system like this should not just be faster movement across the map, but also instill in the players a feel, the thrill of success.
I think this also opens up some interesting city design choices. Like perhaps a tower or balloon or helicopter or something that is constantly in a certain location in the city where there is a dearth of places to swing from. Not only would this allow you to swing from it to get across this space, but if you attach your zipline to it and climb to it, maybe you unlock a shop there that sells you zipline-specific boosts, cosmetics, or a costume item and exploraiton badge.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Ideally speaking, ALL Travel Powers would have what amounts to "two modes" of movement control, which can be selected in the Options Menu.
[list][*]Automatic Control
[*]Manual Control[/list]
In the case of Swinging, the Automatic Control option would be the one that is more basic from a user interface standpoint. Broadly speaking, the Player indicates where they want to go (sort of like click to move) and the game just "does it" to move you there without making the Player "go through the motions" of making it happen. Movement would happen on a "training wheels" basis that is very forgiving of errors (Player or otherwise), lag between client and server, etc. and would be all about making use of Travel Powers as easy and simplified as possible (in the "go thataway" sense).
Manual Control would be, as advertised, a mode in which the Avatar is subject to the physics engine ... and it's up to the Player to "manage" how the Avatar moves and maneuvers using physics (pendulum swinging, timing of release, angle of the swingline, etc.). In this mode, the game isn't "doing the work for you" so the Player would need to develop skills and aptitude with how individual Travel Powers work.
Note that such a [b]Same Power, Different Control Schemes, Different Playing Experience[/b] philosophy can work in multiple ways for a variety of powers.
For a Flight power, the Automatic Control system could be something akin to what you remember in City of Heroes ... accelerate up to maximum speed and just ... go thataway ... regardless of orientation.
Manual Control, however, could include "energy maneuvering" where you slow down when climbing and speed up when diving, so you're "using" the physics engine while flying.
Hover has a stall speed of zero.
Fly has a stall speed above zero by itself in isolation, but GAINS a stall speed of zero if you also take the Hover power. Use a running/sprinting start (or fall from a high place) to gain enough velocity to rise above stall speed and you don't "need" Hover in order to Fly ... but you do need Hover in order to "hang in the sky the way that bricks don't" without moving.
Automatic Control flying is ... boring ... because it's just "get up to speed and go" at a constant speed in whatever direction you're wanting to go.
Manual Control flying is ... exciting ... because there's physics involved, so zooming, swooping and diving "become a thing" and requiring a higher level of skill and control input from the Player.
You can do something similar with Jumping/Superleap.
A "combat" Jumping power can be done from a standing start.
Superleap requires a minimum velocity (like a running broad jump) before you can "leap tall buildings in a single bound" and will land with a forward run at the end to dissipate the landing impact energy ... but if you also have Jumping, you can Superleap without a running start or running stop.
Automatic Control will handle a lot of the "details" of controlling movement for you.
Manual Control will put the onus of responsibility for directing movement onto the Player, allowing for more "stunt" movements than the Automatic Control will permit/do on its own.
Same approach can be applied to Swinging ... and Parkour ... and ... I think you get the idea. ^_~
Heck, the Automatic vs Manual Control can even be applied to the notion of target selection!
Automatic Control = TAB to rotate through $Targets
Manual Control = Put target reticle dot on $Target and hit TAB to lock on target selection to that specific $Target (so "aim" the camera to select and designate)
As you can see, it's basically the difference between letting the game do the work for you, turning the Player into more of a manager/observer of the action on screen, versus putting more of the onus for making things "work" onto the Player, which incentivizes investment into Player skills and immersion in the action unfolding on screen.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I like this.
Bats, Birds of prey like owls and eagles, and winged aircraft can't hover. They can glide (gliding would be an awesome thing in CoT) and they can stall and fall, but they can't hover. Dragonflies, Nectar feeders, helicopters and jetpacks, however, are very adept at hovering. So giving a non-hovering physique a hovering capability and animation seems like it makes sense as two distinct abilities.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.