I can guarantee it won't be cel shaded nor plasticky and waxy shiny. The Unreal Engine can do amazing things. And the KS will be getting us the 3D design tools to make that happen.

Amerikatt wrote:

Personally, I'd like the milieu to look as photorealistic as possible. Of course, that would add to the workload of the Art Dept. and ramp-up the technical specifications of the computer required to run what is very likely to be the #1 hit of 2016! By then, we'll have quantum computers (like are currently in the Katt-kave), so what am I worried for?

Hey, since when are we making an Americat Statue?

[img]http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9imnr5g201rxlmf0o1_500.gif[/img]

I really like the realism I see in the environment art (I was expecting something more cartoon-like [See Wildstar]). The realism is a greatly acclaimed art style but I do see issues with it being compatible with tights wearing heroes and heroines. Also with such a realistic world we would hope to see our characters given the same level of realism detail (which for a custom appearance creator can be a LOT of data between the global server and user PC). The Unreal Engine is a great tool for creation, but it was discussed over at Marvel Heroes that some character models had to be simplified to accommodate the sheer number of people sharing a space (And they don't even use a custom costume generator). As an MMO the ability for the level of static detail can be much greater than the variable details because the environment details will not be changing.

The environment style I have seen so far looks amazing.. I am just whether the character creator options will be able to follow suit.

P. S. - I love Rift (uses a modded game engine) because of its visuals, and it'd be interesting to see that kind of "realism" translate to Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age, 90s and Modern Age superheroes.

P. P. S. - I also think the "blocky" engine that CoX used was showing its age so I'm looking forward to seeing how human models will look.. It really was something that bothered me in that game. More realism in heroes is something I fully can support!

I personally want to see something akin to X-Men Destiny. The graphics aren't too strong as to overload a MMO system but it still "feels" realistic. To me the tights and the environment are perfect and the powers shown here (displaying the lighting etc) are impressive.

It's not as beautiful as say, Tera but it still feels authentic and a step up from the old CoX model without being cartoony

I have to tell you … the game looks much better in action than it does in images. Go find some video of a play-through .. Also the main characters had to unlock "tights" but when they did I generally think they looked nice because they had many different textures.

Edit:
I mean just look at THESE.. so realistic and still have he different textures in each piece to make comic books come alive.

http://www.deadpoolgame.com/#!/characters

EDIT #2:
And check out the "Light" costume pieces on Black Cat.. these are trackable polygons with effects.. Makes me hope I can get hologram insignia's like what the Green Lanterns have for my Supergroup!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnCnNW0j1UI

Brand X wrote:

I'd rather see the character models akin to TERA, with more slider options! :) Love TERA's aesthetics.

True, but their fashion... ugh. They were absolutely crazy about asymmetry and form over function.

Have you guys checked out some 3d Renders of other artists who've worked with City of Heroes players for commissions.

My fav it Douglass Shuler

http://douglasshuler.deviantart.com/gallery

He does the simple, smooth, textured style that I think fits ANY superhero genre. He'd be a GREAT get for the character creator!

I tend to actually like the faces. Don't seem too cartoony.. But I was mostly talking about the skill to cut digital sculpture then render it with textures. The spandex texture he used feels the right thickness and sheen and style to fit into a "realer" world if people don't want to wear kevlar and leather.

http://douglasshuler.deviantart.com/art/PlasmaStream-50818715 - buckles
http://douglasshuler.deviantart.com/art/Rowr-50819919 - fur
http://douglasshuler.deviantart.com/art/Chief-Justice-50818879 - Tights
http://douglasshuler.deviantart.com/art/Fire-Lily-50817389 - More tights

I just really dig that style of rendering. Add light physics to it and you've got a game winner that keeps with the style of the original CoX. There are some other 3d renders I've found but his have been my favorite for the type of game we're talking about (unless people are ok with all buckles and leather characters like in the Deadpool game.. which I can get with too!)

I prefer [url=http://calmdowntom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Ealiom-Character-Creation.jpg]EVE[/url] style graphics. Those are not yet super real but they are good enough and represent heroic potential well. Caveat that I also want to create looks that put Hulk in steroids to shame as well as inhuman creatures.

However if it has to be more stylized and lower detail then [url=http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/www/7c/75/7c75dd24421ae6e76a2fb35c70e2e00e1345576166.jpg]STO[/url] does decent job.

Brand X wrote:

Meh. To realistic.

I pretty much view EVE as the standard for high end graphics. It's realistic enough even if there are things that are off but it's a lot better than the cartoony ones. If it has to be more cartoony then the minimum for me is STO. If it's comic or cell shaded or soft-celled then the game needs to have super amazing gameplay for me to even consider playing it. There are already games like that on market and I personally don't like the graphics style.

However naturally this is just my opinion. YMMV and all.

I just wanted to put my $0.02 in here. Currently I am really liking the style of the Characters in Everquest Next. It's not as photo-realistic as TESO is trying for, nor is it cartoony like you may find in, say, WoW. To my eye it feels rather "Pixar-ish", if you will. I think they've hit on the right balance with their character models.

FalconStriker wrote:

Essentially, the best way to do this, imo, is to use similar coloring and shading styles to coh, but with updated lighting modules, high poly counts on models, more up to date physics engine with unreal, better particles, and apply things like deferred rendering (which unreal can do quite while), to make things pop without actually adding to a models poly count, you see it in lots of games today, such as Skyrim.

Erm. High poly counts on models without actually adding to a models poly count? I kind of want to see how that works. :)

I like GW2's art style okay but it's notable that the image you linked to is high resolution screenshot. The textures in game are of lower quality even in full settings. Dunno about Tera screenie but it's most likely ingame.

Edit: I'm pretty sure CoT will use at least mipmaps and better culling algorithms than CoH did. I suspect shader based culling will be also seen. I actually have no idea what all they can do with the engine so there might be more advanced methods in use too. Anyhow. Even without upgrading the system modern engines can provide much better results with same resources. Assuming the system can exploit these.

Since I am far more familiar with Marvel's life action adaptions of modern time then with the comics and as a simulationist, I am supportive of going for a (at least relatively) realistic style then going for "Comic Book" (what comic books, by the way?) stylisation. Indeed, these probably are far more prominent in the public awareness than comic books.

I doubt I'm in the mainstream with today's abundance of balloon-faced manga heads, but I'd like to be able to handle [url=http://milandare.deviantart.com/art/Airhead-thinks-up-a-cloud-415606468]craggy faces[/url]. The ability to pull the cheek bones out, up and down, jowls in, brow low. I can't seem to make this face even in [i]makehuman[/i], but that might be due to a degree of cartoonish exaggeration. Not looking at his hair, which could be a polygon nightmare. STO is sort of getting there but still... [url=http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9295/zkb5.jpg]creepy[/url].

Tiger wrote:

As long as it doesn't look like Champions I would be fine with it. An art thread in the forums would be good for us artists to help contribute art for the game. Maybe a series of contests for the various pieces promo art for the developers to use. Maybe starting with a logo contest.

Agreed >

GhostHack wrote:

Brand X wrote:
Screenshots from in game. Would love for this style for our avatars!
oh god, you make me die a little inside...
The graphical quality (subtlety anime'd realism, sort of like but erring on the realism side) I can live with... but the STYLE? god no.. no no no...

Sword's not big enough.

No man can wield a sword capable of slaying dragons. It's perfect for you.

While I don't love the the shapes of their models. I love the textures in Valiance Online.

I'll toss out that I love the aesthetics they have in Borderlands 2. Makes me regret that there's no way (at least without going into the config files) to get a third person view.

The unreal 3 (and to a greater extent Unreal 4) engine has taken many of your performance concerns and made them moot.

As far as production costs I am always a fan of "measure Thrice, Cut Once". This game is being made by volunteers. This means I am putting alot of faith in production managers not to release everything just because it "looks" done. That same system makes "production costs" kind of moot

I want the cost/value system to be as efficient as possible but this is a recurring sales model (make the product once and re-sell it to infinity). The idea that more work costs more money is moot in a resale model as the cost is more greatly defined by the demand than the supply.

Your love of CoH is greatly noted but.. come on.. Glove Hands? No thank you.

Comic books are all shapes and styles. I'd love if Chris Bachalo was the inspiration for ALL the art.. but I bet I can find 100,000 internet posts to flame me just by mentioning his name (personal friend so don't start flaming here). "Realism" is an art style that many in the gaming market find appealing and thus why so many games are using it and game enines support it (better dynamic lighting, better texture detail, etc). I think asking for 2003's (high end at the time) graphics settings is just plain out of touch.

I do agree with the part of your post where you express the desire of self expression.. that's the core of why customization is such a design goal expressed by MWM for City of Titans. I don't see why that expression can't be done with 2014 Graphics technology.

JayBezz wrote:

The unreal 3 (and to a greater extent Unreal 4) engine has taken many of your performance concerns and made them moot.

The unreal 3 and 4 engines are capable of delivering resources efficiently, but those resources are still very capable of being made in ways that greatly impact performance. You develop for the hyperealistic, you limit the platforms that you can deliver to. Granted, with a 2015 launch date, odds are that if you're going for something on par with an older "realistic" title, like Skyrim (on a quite-aging gamebryo engine), then most PC's should be able to handle it.

Using skyrim as an example (not Unreal, I know, but I've modded for skyrim), the devs limited the actor assets to reduce impact on the servers. Many fan-made mods added higher resolution assets, more actors in the cities, etc. Anyone familiar with modding should be quite familiar with this: the more detailed assets and the MORE of these assets that there are, the better the PC you require. With A single player game like Skyrim, the devs reduced actors and assets to meet the demands of the target. You rarely see more than a dozen characters at once, so they could have the detail they needed per actor

MMO's complicate the challenge a bit, though. If 50 players can cluster in one area at once, you have to make sure that each model doesn't exceed a certain threshold so that the 50 can be reliably supported, or you need to raise your sstem requirements to the baseline that can support it.

More realism = more resources. More resources = increased system requirements. Increased system requirements = smaller potential target market.

When EQ2 and WoW came out, EQ2 looked like shit unless you had a pretty high-end PC (for that time). WoW would run off the PC that someone dumped in the backroom and forgot about. That made WoW's target audience much larger than eq2's limited one. (obviously not the only reason for wow's success, but it did give them a considerably broader base)

Quote:

As far as production costs I am always a fan of "measure Thrice, Cut Once". This game is being made by volunteers. This means I am putting alot of faith in production managers not to release everything just because it "looks" done. That same system makes "production costs" kind of moot

Not sure where that logic comes from. If you have 200 volunteers, all offering x amount of time, then you have a limited production "budget" of 200 * x. If it takes 3x longer to create assets because of the level of detail necessary for "realistic" rendering, then you can only complete 1/3 as many with the volunteers and time that you're given.

Quote:

I want the cost/value system to be as efficient as possible but this is a recurring sales model (make the product once and re-sell it to infinity). The idea that more work costs more money is moot in a resale model as the cost is more greatly defined by the demand than the supply.

It can be argued that this is more of a service model than a product model... or a service model that is sustained by continued product allocation.

My data is old, but about 5 years ago, the estimate was that a $15 sub, you needed ~$5 for server, bandwidth, noc fees, etc for that user. You need to treat ~$3-5 as a loss due to administrative costs, processing fees, and cc fraud reimbursements. Those costs scale (not entirely proportionally) with each user- the more they play, the more bandwidth they consume, the more players connecting concurrently, the more servers you need, the more people playing, the more staff you need to manage the players AND the codebase.

Because of this, you can't be too focused on the growth you expect from product sales. That product only has value to the users when its associated with the service you're providing, and that service costs money.

(Note: the F2P model is even more dicy. F2P requires very VERY lean code to minimize bandwidth and resource costs- you don't want the freeloader that isn't buying a thing to be using $5/month in hardware costs. One of the reasons that the Supergroup bases were not available to CoH F2P'ers was because the devs identified them as extremely resource-laden.

Many of the fans here are clamoring for things that are often extremely resource-laden- tracking damage (and communicating the battle damage assets to all users) is much more bandwidth than just tracking actors (and putting actors, like civilians, on "rails" to minimize the frequency you need to send updates).

Quote:

Your love of CoH is greatly noted but.. come on.. Glove Hands? No thank you.

God, I hated that. Almost as much as I hated the expressionless faces. There's only so much I could conceal by erratic camera placement in the fancomics.

Granted, there were games that predated CoH that had articulated hands but even less level of detail per character. It was a (bad) design choice. Back before they realized that customization and self expression was going to be such a big part of their appeal, it kinda made sense. If most of your time is going to be spent in 3rd person view, surrounded by combat effects and zoomed out so your own characters' hands are only a few dozen pixels, let alone your foe's... does it make sense to track that level of detail?

Now, for roleplayers, socializers, comic creators and people that are going to be up-front close with their characters during less action-packed moments, that omission is rather glaring.

Quote:

Comic books are all shapes and styles. I'd love if Chris Bachalo was the inspiration for ALL the art.. but I bet I can find 100,000 internet posts to flame me just by mentioning his name (personal friend so don't start flaming here). "Realism" is an art style that many in the gaming market find appealing and thus why so many games are using it and game enines support it (better dynamic lighting, better texture detail, etc). I think asking for 2003's (high end at the time) graphics settings is just plain out of touch.

2014 graphics technology doesn't have to be "realism" but I get your point, but some of your argument betrays your own prejudices here. You equate non-realistic with "older" technology. If its modern, it must be realistic. Yes, there are many A-list games out there that are really realistic. Look at their production budgets. Count the dwindling number of these releases every year. Now look at the explosion in steam greenlight games, xbox arcade games, and browser-based MMO's. Many of these are artistic and expressive, using modern technology on a shoestring budget.

Don't delude yourself on voluneerism solving this world's budget issues. Just trying to wrangle a consistent team for 3 years and constantly filling voids as talented artists get jobs with noncompete agreements, graduate college, etc, will be a monumental undertaking. City of heroes was made for roughly $16 million. Everquest 2 for $32 million and from SOE's own admission, used a LOT of code from previous games to make that threshold, WoW Was supposedly for the mid 60 million (and another 60 million in advertising the first year). Some estimate SWG at well into 9 digits. Our kickstarter got an amazing amount for an unproven team with an unconventional business model, but that's a monumental difference for our volunteers to make up. I'm here because I believe in them, but I'd also like to set expectations that make it EASIER for them, rather than set goals that are overwhelming.

True "comic-based" art assets can be so stylized as to be as difficult to create as hyperrealistic. I don't want that either. There are resources like "speedtree" to produce trees and libraries of art assets for buildings and structures that would be worthless to something like that.

I want intelligent use of modern graphics technology for an art style that is expressive, modest, and PRACTICAL.

Quote:

I do agree with the part of your post where you express the desire of self expression.. that's the core of why customization is such a design goal expressed by MWM for City of Titans. I don't see why that expression can't be done with 2014 Graphics technology.

In general, the more "realistic" you get, the more likely that you'll hit the uncanny valley. suddenly, the tiny imperfections your mind was willing to gloss over and perpetuate the illusion become the very glaring things that pull you from immersion and make you confront the fact that things seem fake.

Ok, take for example the "gas mask" I mentioned earlier. It was a cone shaped thing that, because of its sheer lack of detail, a player was able to use to make a rather convincing critter snout. That was possible because of the realtively lower detail of everything. Had that been a realistic display, that asset would have had more polygons, more textures, and more details, and probably wouldn't have been as useful for a snout and in fact the same character concept may have appeared foolish.

In CoH, there were several different styles of armor, and with some creative coloring and mix-and-matching you could make a fairly good "Steampunk" character out of pieces meant for high-tech. Had the pieces been designed in greater detail, for "realism" it could very well be that the new detail would make them unsuitable for the steampunk look.

Heck, when the steampunk costume set came out, it was a perfect example of the problem. "Brass" chest pieces there didn't color match well against the assets we'd used previously. Assets with meticulous detail were limited in hteir use because some of that detail was so out-of-place. The steampunk skirt was tinted and textured in a way that no prior skirt had previously. While I could use the "with skin" tops with a non-pleated skirt to make a fine-lookint seamless tunic, I couldn't even color-match the two, and if I did, the seams they put on the steampunk dress would break the illusion.

Heck, the female "with skin" top options were filled with examples. near the end there was a debate about what to do with some of the older assets- replace them with better-detailed ones or remove them from the game. The original "with skin" options were often just the original costume "patterns" with one color being given the skin-tone color. Their sheer lack of detail contributed to their flexibility and made them widely mixable. The "wedding pack" lacey outfits, on the other hand, had more limited applications. I also recall a 'with skin" muscle shirt, IIRC, and then they added a newer one that had a bit more definition- the seams could be seen and a wrinkle here and there. It did look great, but there were many places where it couldn't be swapped for its lower-detailed counterpart.

JayBezz wrote:

The unreal engine has light/texture tracking built into the engine. Even in stylized games like the upcoming "Wildstar" you will have a sense of what you may call "realism". I am all for a stylized game to a point as well.. but I think your concern about client-side performance really is made moot by the fact that they've already chosen to purchase the Unreal Engine License. I am just saying this to prepare you.
Also Unreal has alot of backend tech that will automatically render things differently on the client side for ease of use (without ever going to the "options" menue for FPS rate).
- -
The portion about the Volunteer Virtual Studio is not to say the work is "free" but to say that this model has built into it much more oversight that doesn't always exist in a physical studio (I can't tell you how many times i've seen bugs come through production because developers and managers begin to "trust" programming because of interpersonal relationships. This issue is greatly lessened when the product is on display not the person who worked on it. THIS is one of the greatest benefits of this kind of studio structure). The comment is not to the budget but to the structure.

lighting, textures, ect- those to me aren't part of "realism"-- theyire part of a good toolset. "Realism" is a specific level, adherence to real-world models, and a focus toward toward photorealism, ultra-detailed mocap, and high levels of asset animation (it isn't enough for a soldier to have the right combat webbing on, it has to move, shake, and sway like real webbing. These aren't necessarily bad but

1) at current A-list-game-production, they usually land you right into the uncanny valley, where the level of detail makes things less immersive and distracting, rather than contribute to things.
2) it costs considerably more to produce. I actually found my old info from a trade show back when unreal 3 was coming out. Comparing your typical "2" character with what was capable in "3," the Unreal presenter noted that the level of effort to develop that typical "3" model was an order of magnitude greater than the "2" lower-poly counterpart. They had encontered considerable concern that this level of detail would prove too expensive for traditional development studios' art houses and were thus offering parterning with art development departments in developing regions (asia, mostly) where concept art could be shipped and developed for less per hour.

That was over a half decade ago, so things change, but from what I've picked up in trade circles, the development costs high-resolution "realistic" assets remains a recurring pain point for the a-list games that still purse them.

chase wrote:

Quote:
Your love of CoH is greatly noted but.. come on.. Glove Hands? No thank you.

God, I hated that. Almost as much as I hated the expressionless faces. There's only so much I could conceal by erratic camera placement in the fancomics.

I still remember the first time I fired up Tabula Rasa, went into the character creator ... and nearly fell out of my chair when I realized the character model had FINGERS(!) and they were all articulating and animating independently in "hand-like" ways! After the City of Heroes "glove hands" experience, it felt like an order of magnitude more advanced.

chase wrote:

While I'm NOT advocating this style of art, compare to "Star Wars: the old republic." the developers called their art style "stylized realism" -- distinctly star wars, but not tied down to photorealism.
You have articulated hands and faces and animation, a moderate level of detail, and despite some rather odd character proportions in some places, would be a step up from CoH, but compared to the "realistic" modeling in something like "Dead Rising 3", "Battlefield 4", "Thief 4" or similar launch titles for the next-gen consoles, it is far FAR from "realism" level of detail.
When I hear advocates for "realism" I think more toward those later titles.
When I advocate for less realistic, I'm leaning more toward the swtor direction
Using these as our two extremes, where would your expectations fall for this new game?

So a lot like TERA, yet different style. >_> With TERA having the better style *totally not biased*

While Everquest 2 is not in Unreal, their "art style" is much like anime where they make the eyes and mouth much larger so that game emotions will be more easily seen at range. But many people still cry "too realistic"..

What I've found they really mean is "ugh shadows follow the textures and there are too many moving polygons" and I am simply trying to prepare people for the eventuality that Unreal specifically uses these as as selling points. So if you're saying you want art that "looks more cartoon like" you should prepare yourself. Even if the shapes change the way those shapes interact with the lighting, FX, and environment will not.

I am personally extremely happy about this .. but can understand there may be those of you who are not. I just welcome you to go search for other Unreal Engine games released in the last 5 years.

And TERA I believe is on Unreal Engine, and love it as well.

JayBezz wrote:

While Everquest 2 is not in Unreal, their "art style" is much like anime where they make the eyes and mouth much larger so that game emotions will be more easily seen at range. But many people still cry "too realistic"..
What I've found they really mean is "ugh shadows follow the textures and there are too many moving polygons" and I am simply trying to prepare people for the eventuality that Unreal specifically uses these as as selling points. So if you're saying you want art that "looks more cartoon like" you should prepare yourself. Even if the shapes change the way those shapes interact with the lighting, FX, and environment will not.
I am personally extremely happy about this .. but can understand there may be those of you who are not. I just welcome you to go search for other Unreal Engine games released in the last 5 years.

As, see the shadows and textures don't mean "realistic" to me at all. You're right that the use of shadows and contrasts is a common element within unreal. It just never would occur to me to associate it with the players seeking "realistic" or "photorealism" in games.

Some other less-conventional Unreal Engine art:

Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6UmSV6GfbM has the shadowing, but the hard shadows, extreme colors, and sharp contrasts make for something that nobody woulc consider "realistic"

Alice: Madness Returns ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krc0dvJ9rvY ) is all about distinctive artstyles

Deadlight ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJwbKX4JulU ) uses the engine to power what's essentially could be a side-scrolling 2d game.
XCOM: Enemy Unknown uses it for isometric tactical

Unmechanical (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnTxtox-Aic) used it for a puzzle game.

Here's a list of MMORPGs using Unreal: http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/unreal-engine-3/

While the sculpting and modeling is very different for each game (the polygon shapes) the lighting and texture details are MUCH more consistent. This consistency is what I'm talking about.. I may be wrong but this is what many people "call" realism. Character sculpting can do many different things for style (tho I expect them to make them look less stylized and more humanoid) but the lighting and textures will come by defualt with a "realistic" tone. I am not saying this to advocate for my aforementioned bias for realism.. but as a statement of inference based on the engine used. Just trying to prepare people who want something like Cryptic Studios cartoony feel

Notably missing from this list is Marvel Heroes (tho the client server has fewer options to render because of how they handle costuming)

Gangrel wrote:

Surprised you went for that list (which as you stated does miss out on Marvel Heroes)
Games using Unreal Engine 3 I would have thought would have been a better choice...

A lot of games on that list are single player. The question of rendering a random players character rather instantly on your client is a large part of the issue at hand (from Chase anyhow)

Brand X wrote:

I always took realism to be talk of how one's avatar looked. Where people looked at Elder Scrolls characters as realistic (UGLY) and Wildstar as unrealistic (PRETTY).

Ok I just watched the "Elder Scrolls" character creation video and loved the way they did sliders Physique, Weight, length and width .. too bad it's not Unreal! Never really followed the game but the char creator looks boss. Just not superhero.

I would like SOME styles I would like but going in a direction like that without making others upset. Unless we're not playing as humanoids and/or Titan City (btw is that the official name of the city because I think Heroes and Villains is trying to use the same) .. I think people will expect a more realistic version of the character models and environments

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/256/465/f008af7fefbe1676fd949ae981bbe924_large.png?1383104714

GhostHack wrote:

fyi, yes, Titan City is the current official name of the city, based on a speech by "Oswald Lawrence", that united northern and southern townships into one major city.
now, if someone copyrights it beforehand, it could just become a "townie" nickname... but for the moment, it's official

Well hopefully that's something they can both agree to share! I hold no ill will towards H&V and hope it succeeds myself! Just like I hope CoT succeeds!

Brand X wrote:

GhostHack wrote:
fyi, yes, Titan City is the current official name of the city, based on a speech by "Oswald Lawrence", that united northern and southern townships into one major city.
now, if someone copyrights it beforehand, it could just become a "townie" nickname... but for the moment, it's official

Well hopefully that's something they can both agree to share! I hold no ill will towards H&V and hope it succeeds myself! Just like I hope CoT succeeds!

I tend to hop from game to game but usually one of each genre type. I was previously working on a producing a DIFFERENT superhero project. But because of the vacuum in the market I've since put the project on hold. I put some big $ behind my Kickstarter Donation.

While I'm not going to wish H&V ill I know I will likely only play one game. And with that I put my money toward the one I most believed in. I am backing City of Titans and Valiance Online because I believe in them. But with CoT I feel its got the best chance of success.

JayBezz wrote:

Brand X wrote:
GhostHack wrote:
fyi, yes, Titan City is the current official name of the city, based on a speech by "Oswald Lawrence", that united northern and southern townships into one major city.
now, if someone copyrights it beforehand, it could just become a "townie" nickname... but for the moment, it's official

Well hopefully that's something they can both agree to share! I hold no ill will towards H&V and hope it succeeds myself! Just like I hope CoT succeeds!

I tend to hop from game to game but usually one of each genre type. I was previously working on a producing a DIFFERENT superhero project. But because of the vacuum in the market I've since put the project on hold. I put some big $ behind my Kickstarter Donation.
While I'm not going to wish H&V ill I know I will likely only play one game. And with that I put my money toward the one I most believed in. I am backing City of Titans and Valiance Online because I believe in them. But with CoT I feel its got the best chance of success.

Well, I'm not sure if I'll game hop myself, but that was more on the idea of both having a Titan City.

Personally I would've preferred one of the games to just go New York. But I'll just save the idea of making multiple real life cities into huge zones with different concept/themes for when I win the lotto :p

Brand X wrote:

I always took realism to be talk of how one's avatar looked. Where people looked at Elder Scrolls characters as realistic (UGLY) and Wildstar as unrealistic (PRETTY).

Since when Widlstar characters have been considered pretty? They are cartoony and blocky. I don't personally get how anyone can call those pretty or even call them good. They look like something you see in computer animated cartoons. Except lack the polished quality.

If they actually looked more like what was seen in their [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvY8dnaYcz4]CGI trailer[/url] then I would agree but the ingame representation *and* the world both lack the detail and proportions. Compare the ingame model and the trailer model and they are off and not just because of texture and shader quality.

Edit: Also if you are talking about ESO characters they are sort of ugly. It's because they suffer from the standard "we need to make things obvious by exaggerating size" effect that MMOs seem to be fond of because of third person view. If you are looking into good graphics look into Skyrim. Especially enhanced by ENB (but that would of course kill the framerate in MMOs).

I personally like enhanced realism. I like things to be a bit sharper and more closer to very well made art than what you can actually see in the real life. Colors more pronounced without being cartoony. More... intense I guess. Anyhow. Like I said. EVE level is good enough for me (but again might not be feasible in a MMO).

Cinnder wrote:

WestCoaster wrote:
Personal opinion?
I'd say try and match CoH's art style, but bump up the quality. Just so long as the quality doesn't go up so high only the higher end PCs can display it

Agreed.
For me, the fact that CoX looked mostly realistic (for its time) made my characters' powers feel more super. I always thought the same powers in the more fantastic setting of another MMO wouldn't have seemed so awesome.

Agreed with WestCoaster and Cinnder.

I should probably say, this is me just wondering if it's an internet connection problem, rather than the need for top of the line computer. While I know internet connection availability will vary between the players and thusly always be an issue. I remember when I switched from cable to satellite, not only did my game performance drop, but just browsing the internet wasn't as smooth. I switched back to cable pretty quickly.