As both a veteran GM and RolePlayer (Tabletop wise), nothing gets me more frustrated than people calling foul on fair rolls because the outcome they wanted didn't happen. The same occurs in MMO RP, as I've found in Champs and even CoX (they know who they are). Sadly, it's more frequent in MMO RP because there is no set way to handle conflict whether it be player against player or player against NPC or even skill checks. I've tried so many options from character sheets to PvP to even Fudge Dice (great simplistic system BTW)... and yet there always ends up being disagreements over what happened. Character sheets WOULD be my ideal option however it causes sessions to last hours at a time, and even then not everyone can afford sourcebooks.
So I'm curious. What do you think the best way to handle such things is?
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
I always liked using the OOC thread for setting scenarios, character traits, possible outcomes, and general questions about how best to get where we want to go as a group..I also encouraged participants to develop their personalities and 'tell a story' if possible so all readers can be engaged.
I am about to start an OOC thread for a new RP for my hero and anyone who wants to join. It will be an open format and the characters don't even HAVE to meet...they can tell their own story if they wish. The OOC thread will be there for determining all the details.
WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE!
[IMG]http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv238/Caliber357/CoTSimian002a.jpg[/IMG]
okay, I'd like to start off by saying that if something like this was put into place it would be very hard to get 100% everybody to follow it, mostly because it might be hard for new RPers to grasp something like it and experienced RPers to get used to it. That being said if the dice rolling is based on something anyone can use like the dice rolling emote from the old game, I'd like something like this used, not forced, but used. Like for instance if atleast one person in the RP isn't using a character sheet then everyone would just do it the normal way. Maybe some SG/VGs could make it a rule that everyone in their group use this system, maybe even helping new players who are having trouble with it. As for a suggestion to use for this system, maybe an even more simplified version of the fudge system, no aspects, no fate points, no ability to create advantages on a target, just a skill system where you add your bonus to the die roll that was made with the die rolling emote and seeing which ones higher. Something simple, maybe we can have it have something like stunts where you get three bonuses starting off when using a skill in a certain way like a +2 to ranged attacks when attacking the undead, or +2 to melee when fighting demons. Maybe we can add a leveling system where every 5 levels you gain you can either get an additional bonus to a skill or another "stunt".
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
If it comes down to it, and people just can't seem to allow hits that should be successful hit, I prefer to use simple rolls. 1-100 as in WoW, dice as in CoX, or whatever kind of /roll command is implemented in game. If absolutely required, and I'm running an event, I'll go to a dice-rolling site I use, roll for each side, and post links to pics of those rolls for people to view.
In some situations, you'll have someone who just does NOT want to lose. In those cases, if talking to them about it in whispers does not solve the issue and they simply seem to have a need to win... I'll advise people to simply begin ignoring them. (Not using an ignore function in-game, just to avoid posting in response to them) I've found that nothing quite shoves home the point of 'behave or mama spank' like an entire group ignoring someone who won't play by the rules.
RP is done by consent, and if those around the misbehaving one do not consent to playing out a single person's superiority complex, then they do not have to allow that person's behavior affect them. I've had 'the shunning' work very well in most cases. Not all, of course, but most.
[color=blue]You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
[i]George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)[/i][/color]
[url=http://www.namesakeradio.com]Come and listen to NameSake Radio![/url]
I would hope that CoT has a die roller like CoH had, and I would use it straight, no bonuses, otherwise people will argue about who gets a bonus and how much.
___
"Listen, and understand. City of Titans is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely [i]will not stop, ever,[/i] until we are live!"
Warcabbit
I loved using rolls! I feel that it is the best way to keep both sides happy. I used to be a hardcore T1 rper back in the day. I disliked t2 since it was all about speed and spelling didn't count. Was annoying to have someone just roll their face on the keyboard and claim a hit while you had to sit there and figure out what the hell they said. I often would use a character sheet such as a a simple 1-100 scale when working with events in CO or when RP fighting with them. Within that scale I would create a dodge mechanic, block, or hit. You would create modifiers with yourself where depending on who or what you would be facing you would lose 5 or gain 5 to your rolls which could help knock you to another area of that bar.
I am fine using straight numbers though, but in truth..Just seeing this thread makes me happy! So many people in CO don't use Rolls and feel that it limits their character. They often believe they are all powerful so numbers shouldn't dictate if they hit or not. I also dislike going straight to duels to settle matters.
"Making waves the fun way!"
On WOW I used a dice roller and an add on allowing for costume items to make a Fortune telling system.
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
This is how i handle things:
On forums:
I tend to like hosting writing competitions. The writers pitted against each other. Each write a separate story where their hero/villain is the outcome winner. A panel of 3 judges vote independently scoring the stories, the scores are tallied and the highest overall story is winner and "what happened"
In actual forum RP, I tend to avoid actual "i punch you" posts. I call it creative avoidance =P ...... Once I get to know a forum RP'er I can work out the scenario behind the scenes with them ooc so that we are both happy with the general direction... and then let the characters take it in that direction.
I don't use dice on forums, people cheat =P
In game:
I still tend to avoid "i punch you" rp. However ingame dice make it easier to setup if it needs to happen. Add-ons that allow for basic stats to be posted help within an rp group. Give everyone 5-10 characteristics, and a total set of points they can allocate how they choose. The modifiers are +/- the difference in those allocated points.
I am a much more story telling/following rp'er. Combat rp has never really appealed to me. In game I don't really see much of a point, since I can bang my digital fists into stuff and make it blow up... why bother writing about it. Instead I will engage in life stories and plot points for characters, develop friendships, and social rivalries.
Often times in CoH the same RP'ers would love one of my characters, have no idea who i am in real life... and loath another character that I log on with.
I tend to get labeled as an rp snob due to my avoidance of combat rp, and overall dislike of it... but I feel a lot less people walk away from the digital table upset if creative solutions are played out like a well crafted opera over an e-peen 'im more super than you' situation.
Supporting how I can, Starting up a DA group for art, stories, and concepts to be collected
http://city-of-titans.deviantart.com/
Please join up if you plan to make or collect CoT related art.
I agree with you, Steamtank. I far prefer to just RP things out and avoid combat, but when the situation is there, i find a simple /roll is as cut-and-dried as it gets. I'm more than willing to RP out a massive hit taking my character down and doing serious damage if the rolls go that way. I think what I like most about it is the random aspect it brings into the RP. Life itself has those random luck/bad luck moments that can turn a fight in or against your favor.
They're also useful in running RP events. In WoW and LoTRO I've run large RP events where a massive enemy comes at the group (or a group of enemies). In that case, my usual method is a roll for initiative at the beginning of the fight. Then, in that order people roll against the enemies and those rolls dictate what happens. Keeping people to an initiative-roll system keeps all the posts orderly, keeps people from running over eachother, and allows everyone to easily read what's happening. It's like running a D&D game without a character sheet, and with simple rolls.
[color=blue]You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
[i]George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)[/i][/color]
[url=http://www.namesakeradio.com]Come and listen to NameSake Radio![/url]
I concur, KaosKitteh!
I try to avoid direct combat in RP'ing threads, as there are people who refuse to play fair. They figure that their *backstory* says they're a primordial deity, so "obviously" they cannot be harmed by mortal weapons. My thinking is "Why bother intruding in an RP thread?"
I can see die-rolling in-game, but how would die rolls be done in a Forum thread?
[center][color=purple][size=16][b][I][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78N2SP6JFaI]Just a cat from another star![/url][/I][/b][/size][/color][/center]
Thanks all for feedback.. now my turn!
Kaos and Steam, for the most part I find conflict unavoidable when it comes to events or patrols (spying and espionage, however..). You'll always have that one punk who's like "I can take em!" and the villain who's sure he/she will win a fight.
As you guys have also said, I'd love would be a /roll like in CoH that perhaps is customized to specifics such as /roll_2d20 or /roll_1d100 and announces in local chat what the roll landed on. Or just a standard 1-100 /roll would be fine either way.. and an addon for simple stats would indeed make things so much easier.
Again, I find that simplicity is best when it comes to MMOs since (Again) not everyone can afford to spend the time to go out and make giant sheets from systems like GURPS or HERO.. and Tidal mentioned the hit/block/dodge system, which I'm a huge fan of (simpler than Fudge, amazingly). I've actually been working in a way to combine it with another system to make an easy, 1-100 based system for combat and skill checks.
Another thing I love for quick fights is the simple "Who got the higher number" that Kaos mentioned (I think that's what you were talking about in the first post).
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
Yes, absolutely! It takes out all the 'Well, I'm better so i auto-win!" that can come with it. A number is higher than another number. It doesn't get simpler than that.
Amerikatt, for forums, again I prefer to just let people RP things out, but if people just can't seem to behave, then I'll go to a GM system. I'll use something like http://www.random.org/dice/ , and post images, or even roll my own dice and post pics from my phone XD That's assuming people trust me to be fair and completely above-board with the rolls.
And I think that's the most important thing here. Trust. we, as a community have to trust eachother to behave and not try to auto-win at everything, and for the most part I've found that the kind of community we have here, the community we had with CoX, most (if not all) people -are- that trustworthy.
[color=blue]You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
[i]George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)[/i][/color]
[url=http://www.namesakeradio.com]Come and listen to NameSake Radio![/url]
I guess Rock, Paper, Scissors would work, but I'd like a roll in game; a d10 if they got one. that way I can gauge the level of the hit. You roll a 7, I roll a 6, I stagger and say "That the best you got?" but you roll a 10 and I roll a 1 then I can come up with how devastating that blow was and crumple to the ground.
(or go through a building... ;) )
___
"Listen, and understand. City of Titans is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely [i]will not stop, ever,[/i] until we are live!"
Warcabbit
Never been an avid fan of 'I'm better so I win' ideology...,
- ...everyone can fail, and it doesn't matter who...there's always going to be someone better than your character and there's always going to be someone worse. The trick is molding the successes and failures into a story that's interesting and leaves the reader with a desire to find out more. In CoX, I had a tendency to make characters who were built around their particular flaw...my first 50, Thunder-Puncher, focused on the one thing he really shouldn't have considered a 'smart idea': he was practically a pure melee blaster (...only one ranged attack chosen at the very beginning besides Nova...).
- Did he face plant a lot?...oh, most certainly, but that was essentially a part of his design. For all intents and purposes, Thunder-Puncher was a normal human...albeit an incredibly large person who could actually survive small arms fire, but he wasn't the kind of hero that could take take on Statesman in a boxing match. Sure, T-P's punches hurt...they hurt a -LOT-...but he couldn't take it, because he was still almost human, so his play style required a lot of forethought. Stun, despite it's anemic damage, was part of T-P's arsenal because a Lieutenant isn't much of a problem when they're stunned at the very beginning.
- Winning wasn't something T-P always did, but when he did...it was a moment worth savoring. ^_^
Yepyep. My favorite character (previous to her demise q.q) in WoW was my death knight. her weakness was very large and easy to exploit for those who found it... even accidentally. She tasted floor a -lot-, but like you say, when she won, it was one helluva awesome feeling!
[color=blue]You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
[i]George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)[/i][/color]
[url=http://www.namesakeradio.com]Come and listen to NameSake Radio![/url]
Thankfully, the only thing that used to be able to hurt Amerikatt was the radioactive element "Kytonite". Thankfully, all of the Kytonite on Earth was changed to fish-sticks in [i][u][b]Amerikatt Comics[/b][/u][/i] #233. The effect became multiversal-wide during the epic [i][u][b]Calamity on Multiple Earths[/b][/u][/i] mega-series! *sage nod*
[center][color=purple][size=16][b][I][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78N2SP6JFaI]Just a cat from another star![/url][/I][/b][/size][/color][/center]
Fish sticks?!? Heheheh! I have to go check that out. Thanks for the link, AK!
Sometimes, die rolling can be helpful if the players can't otherwise agree on how to work it out. Or, a third party can offer to be GM for the one situation where it's needed and make the die roll. Of course, the combative/competing players have to agree to that. If not, then it gets stalemated kind of like KaosKitteh posted above. "RP is by consent."
A Wing and a Prayer, A Strong, Strong Wind, All Forests are One, Power Struggles - Venture City metahuman novels in the spirit of City of Heroes and other comic book superhero fiction. (http://bit.ly/sdpbooks)
One thing I've often found when it comes to RP, is it's not so much that some concepts shouldn't face roll others (seriously, Spidey versus normal person with a few boxing lessons, is going to get facerolled), it's players who make concepts that should get facerolled, feel their character shouldn't always get beaten just for being "unique" (which btw, isn't, it stopped being unique when everyone else did it to be unique :p).
The problem with PvP has always been game mechanics. Not to mention I've seen people who would RP on their concept driven build, then alt to their PvP version, because their true to concept build lacked. :p
I agree RP is by consent, which means the best way to deal with RP is avoid those who RP much to differently than you.
Pretty much that, yep.
[color=blue]You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
[i]George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)[/i][/color]
[url=http://www.namesakeradio.com]Come and listen to NameSake Radio![/url]
[b][i][u]SPOILER ALERT[/u][/i][/b]
[It was actually the work of Amerikatt's #1 extradimensional Fan (and Pest!) ... Katt-Mite! Once Katt-Mite returned to his own demented dimension, the fish-sticks reverted to Kytonite! *shrug*]
[center][color=purple][size=16][b][I][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78N2SP6JFaI]Just a cat from another star![/url][/I][/b][/size][/color][/center]
I'm curious at a convention I have seen some folks use here on these forums (fora, if you prefer), and I would love it if someone would explain it to me.
The convention is stating character actions as hypothetical or conditional actions. For example, "Nova would send a telepathic message to the heroes in the room, informing them of the honey badger in the corner who just didn't appear to care." This is instead of stating the action more directly as, "Nova sends a telepathic message...."
I understand the basic rationale of not auto-ing others, but it grates on me when I read it. I am sure there are reasons that some people prefer this, and I would like to hear more about this technique, if some are willing to share their thoughts.
(My intent is not to complain or get people to change how they do things, but merely to understand the viewpoint. No disrespect intended.)
A Wing and a Prayer, A Strong, Strong Wind, All Forests are One, Power Struggles - Venture City metahuman novels in the spirit of City of Heroes and other comic book superhero fiction. (http://bit.ly/sdpbooks)
I too must admit to being curious about this. I didn't want to mention it, as I didn't want to seem to be complaining and ruffle any feathers, but it makes the little grammar consultant in my head cringe every time I read it. It would be nice to know the rationale behind the usage.
Reading it that way, I can understand why it grates on you. Would be much simple to say "Nova sends out a telepathic message to the heroes..." or "Nova tries to send out a telepathic message to the heroes..."
Which both give the other players a chance to say the message did or did not get through.
Basically, that sort of thing is to try to cover the bases of concepts that might have some sort of resistance to telepathic speech.
Best to do that with combat as well "Brand X pulls her pistols as she spins around, falling into a straddle split as she attempts to shoot out ENEMY X's ankles" attempting gives the other player a chance to dodge, the other one seems so final.
However, I put as much blame on ENEMY X in that case, as they could always reply that they dodge whether Brand X gives a "this is what happens" or not action.
The reason it's funny, is Enemy X will tend to ignore other powers based on their own desires, but gets bent out of shape on how an action is worded.
Walk into a place like Pocket D/Club Caprice, see a character with some sort of pheromone power going on and watch as so many people ignore that valid power. Watch how they ignore the telepath.
Heh, yeah. Ignoring the valid powers that you know about is a definite no-no in my book, as long as you are interacting with them. And if you don't want to interact, then wall it off as if it was not in your reality without reacting! (I have been guilty of that a couple of times, then caught myself and said, "No, no, K! No snarky comments when you aren't in their RP! Bad kitty!")
I took an improv class a while back and really liked one of the rules: "Don't contradict what your partner gives you. Go with it, regardless of what it is." That seems to be a key to success in MMO RP, as well.
A Wing and a Prayer, A Strong, Strong Wind, All Forests are One, Power Struggles - Venture City metahuman novels in the spirit of City of Heroes and other comic book superhero fiction. (http://bit.ly/sdpbooks)
Generally I agree. I've been in a few circumstances where I had to say "Ummm no."
I can and do generally run with what I'm given, but there was a time (this is one of the reasons why I'm okay with the idea of a retcon when it comes to RPs) my main was subconsciencely did everything to avoid killing, because if she did, she'd revert back to her pre-amnesia state of a trained, almost sociopathic killer.
So one player decided they had to use that OOC knowledge (it was meant more as background/flavor/quirk) and try to get my character to change completely :p Their solution? "Oh, your 5ft non super strength character gave my super strong, super tough, totally uber, basically a dark version of superman, a shove! He falls backwards, causing his helmet to break and send a piece into his brain killing him." o.O
Nevermind those who don't realize in MMO RP, you don't go about KILLING another players character regardless if it would be something they would do or not, unless it's been discussed with the other player before hand. It's called RP etiquette.