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Tab or Mouse Targeting

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Tecolot
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Tab or Mouse Targeting

So, I think it is safe to assume most people here lean towards tab targeting, but I think it would be nice to be able to move out of the way of attacks, heck, it might make things more engaging. I know, I know, you will have to aim, but hey, aiming its fun, all the cool kids are doing it!

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLO5WNy4pQs] Damage Inc Story Arc [/url]

Izzy
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When i played CoH, i

When i played CoH, i sometimes fought the decision to allow enemy bullets/firballs/etc.. to reach me when i ran out off LOS (behind the corner), but the projectiles still got to me.
Locking on to a target (i call it autolock) with Tab or left-click, was something new for me, but it made my life allot simpler. A Leutent or Boss would normally be behind the minions. and the Minions ALWAYS rush toward you, blocking the LEutenats and BOsses. Sometimes you WANT to Tanut/Attack/etc... a Leutenant / Boss 1st, and Tabbing throught helped allot!

I played Champions Online for 2 weeks, got my The Mountain or whatever stone tank thing was called, But i had to press and HOLD a button to Block Attacks, if i wanted to stay alive as i leveld up. I wasnt able to use my other attact as much, and if i did, even if i went back to pressing and holding down the Block button, I still DIED!
It felt like everyone else was having fun using their awesome attack powers except ME! :/

Gangrel
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Tab targetting does not

Tab targetting does not necessarily mean that you cannot move out of the way of attacks (particularly AOE's).

Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy 14 for example both work on the tab targeting system, but they also warn you of where "big hit" abilities (AOE's mainly) will be landing, so you can move out of the way.

*edit*

Quote:

When i played CoH, i sometimes fought the decision to allow enemy bullets/firballs/etc.. to reach me when i ran out off LOS (behind the corner), but the projectiles still got to me.

This is because, if i remember correctly, the "to hit roll" was made at the *start* of the whole combat animation/projectile animation, so if it rolled a "hit" at the start, it would just auto path to you. Annoying, yes... but at least it also allowed you to do cool stuff such as dodge animations, or the projectile just flying off in the wrong direction (so that it missed you).

Projectiles are the one that *really* suffer for stuff like this, especially when the animation is a long one...

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1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
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4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Tecolot
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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

Tab targetting does not necessarily mean that you cannot move out of the way of attacks (particularly AOE's).
Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy 14 for example both work on the tab targeting system, but they also warn you of where "big hit" abilities (AOE's mainly) will be landing, so you can move out of the way.

This seems like a good solution, but in CoX, if a rocket, boulder, etc was coming at you, breaking LOS did nothing, you still got hit.

Regarding tab targeting making it harder to attack a boss first/directly, i welcome that challenge personally.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLO5WNy4pQs] Damage Inc Story Arc [/url]

Gangrel
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If the attack animation time

If the attack animation time/projectile travel time was reduced, you wouldn't necessarily see this problem... however, most attacks are generally done at a slower pace for more "impact".

I have noticed this complaint with the *slower* moving stuff, and yet bullets/lasers arent necessarily complained about as *much* because their projectiles "travel" faster, and looks correct.

Shame that they pretty much both use the same combat resolution code though (it makes it easier to maintain to a degree)

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Breviloquent
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I think I had the most fun

I think I had the most fun playing CoX when I had a ton of sequences set up and both hands physically on the keyboard (during combat, not traveling). I enjoyed tab-targeting because it let me focus on my character's skills, not my own hand-eye coordination. I enjoy several other aim-games, but I think switching this particular "spiritual successor" to mouse-aiming would change the game enough that it would alienate a significant segment of people. Needing to aim your view screen generally and only being able to tab to enemies in view was a challenge without being overly challenging. Pre-targeting something, teleporting in by aiming self-placement, firing off a sequence—that sort of experience would be impossible. Needing to spot-aim a couple of skills was fun. Changing to a more console-type system would make CoT feel too much like a console game, methinks, and would limit the ability to broaden the skill sets, especially among the support classes who need to target allies, then enemies (or take a friend's target), then allies again.

Having said that, I would not mind seeing a slightly higher proportion of mouse/cursor-aimed attacks, especially the big AoE ranged ones. Players who have this sort of hand-eye coordination in spades could be rewarded for it and super-valuable to their teams as a result.

Mendicant
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I prefer tab-targeting to

I prefer tab-targeting to twitch aiming, as I dislike being punished for not having the hand-eye coordination and reflexes of a teenager. In CoH I had a couple alts who used AoE powers that were aimed via mouse (Rain of Fire, etc), and those worked well enough, being as they were AoE powers and thus a little inaccuracy in the aim didn't matter too much. However, having aiming for powers in general be via twitch reflexes rather than tab-targeting would be a major turn off; for me, at least.

Comicsluvr
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I'm firmly in the Tab camp.

I'm firmly in the Tab camp. However, I would also like to see some tactics involved in combat. For example: If you stand behind something you get a Defense buff. This works for the bad guys as well. So if your whole team is pinned down by the two guys at the end of the hall behind the crates, teleport in behind them and get the drop on them.

More natural-types who rely on skill and movement to avoid damage can look for cover and keep ducking around. The big Tanks can just wade in as usual.

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

syntaxerror37
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I don't know who started this

I don't know who started this nomenclature, but it is nonsensical. In plenty of twitch games you still can target through hitting tab, and in good old CoH you could target via your mouse. How you select the target has nothing to do with the reflexes of the player.

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Izzy
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Well, when i rolled a toon an

Well, when i rolled a toon an didnt bring over any macros, in order to target the Closest Enemy.. i would keep pressing Escape to Unselect any targets.. THEN, hit Tab again to target the closest enemy. :/

Mendicant
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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

I don't know who started this nomenclature, but it is nonsensical. In plenty of twitch games you still can target through hitting tab, and in good old CoH you could target via your mouse. How you select the target has nothing to do with the reflexes of the player.

Basically, when people are talking about twitch targeting, they are talking about systems where you do not select a target and then your attacks then are aimed at that target, they are (or at least I am) referring to a system where you have to keep your mouse pointer (or the crossharis) over the target in order to hit it. If the target moves, and your mouse/targeting reticule does not, then you miss. Much like most FPS games.

Whereas in tab-targeting, once you select your target, be it by tab, mouse click or macro, that is where your attacks are heading. Whether or not you hit or miss depends on the attack/defense ratios and the RNG rather than jumping out of the targeting reticule.

Tecolot
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Mendicant wrote:
Mendicant wrote:

syntaxerror37 wrote:
I don't know who started this nomenclature, but it is nonsensical. In plenty of twitch games you still can target through hitting tab, and in good old CoH you could target via your mouse. How you select the target has nothing to do with the reflexes of the player.

Basically, when people are talking about twitch targeting, they are talking about systems where you do not select a target and then your attacks then are aimed at that target, they are (or at least I am) referring to a system where you have to keep your mouse pointer (or the crossharis) over the target in order to hit it. If the target moves, and your mouse/targeting reticule does not, then you miss. Much like most FPS games.
Whereas in tab-targeting, once you select your target, be it by tab, mouse click or macro, that is where your attacks are heading. Whether or not you hit or miss depends on the attack/defense ratios and the RNG rather than jumping out of the targeting reticule.

Thanks, Mendicant, you saved me a lot of typing.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLO5WNy4pQs] Damage Inc Story Arc [/url]

Mendicant
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No problem, Tecolot. I should

No problem, Tecolot. I should also mention that, for obvious reasons, twitch targeting only allows you to target what is in front of you. (At least in 1st person view)

syntaxerror37
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Oh, I know what you mean, I'm

Oh, I know what you mean, I'm just saying we should not express it that way. It is a bad way to name it.

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I never set anything on fire accidentally!

The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame