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Streetsweeping!

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boggo
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Streetsweeping!

I'd like to see the return of Street Sweeping as a viable way to levelling, waaaay back in the early days of CoH that was a viable way of getting yourself some levels (I don't think my first toon even went IN to an instance until he was at the North end of Steel).

It makes the city feel more alive and dynamic (to me anyway) and certainly makes the place feel more alive and populated than when everyone is always in an instance (which is how CoH ended up) always made me feel alone in the world, and a bit isolated towards the end.

Just an idea that I hope make sense to folks

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Agreed...when new to CoH,

Agreed...when new to CoH, there was a great vibe to wandering out the gate from AP and seeing new toons chasing goons up and down the street for first levels.

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I'll third this suggestion,

I'll third this suggestion, unless if someone can come in and explain why CoH pulled that rug out from under us. I would assume they had a good reason to, but it seems to me it's a good way to get the players familiar with the maps. Plus that whole "play the way you want to" thing. :)

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you could say, if Street

you could say, if Street sweeping makes it in, I'll be "Glad all Over"

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I really don't like the idea

I really don't like the idea of mobs wandering all around the city. It makes me feel like the police are completely effing useless. Why bother having them around if they don't do anything to deter crime?

What i"d prefer to see are random popup alerts where a citizen suddenly tells you 'Hey, there's some guys in the alley behind me committing nefarious deeds..."

Spider-Man 2 for the PS2 had this -- you're tooling around as Spider-Man, some random stranger would pop up and you'd have a little mini-mission to go into the alleys and beat on thugs. Champions Online has this too, but the problem there is that usually the mission the random citizen points you to is all the effing way across town -- and requires a map separate from the main map (so therefore, a loading screen -- thus, a chance to get mapserved). If a random stranger pops up yelling "HELP!" his problem should be RIGHT THERE, not halfway across The City.

And while the thugs can be in a separate map, I think if they're on the same map -- just phased from the rest of the game -- they'd work the same way.

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Clave Dark 5 wrote:
Clave Dark 5 wrote:

I'll third this suggestion, unless if someone can come in and explain why CoH pulled that rug out from under us. I would assume they had a good reason to, but it seems to me it's a good way to get the players familiar with the maps. Plus that whole "play the way you want to" thing. :)

The rug was never pulled out from you, the best xp/hour for a solo player was to street sweep green-con enemies. anyway, I am quite sure the streets will be full of heads to smash for XP if you prefer that to missions.

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boggo
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Though having mobs on every

Though having mobs on every street corner was something that annoyed me, having mobs in back alleys, lurking under overpasses and things like that is something that would be appropriate, and still gives players something to do on the world map, that's really what I'm pushing for, I don't want the city to become this place you briefly flit through on your way from one instance to another, which is what it is in most mmo's and how it was heading in CoX before the end. I'd like to see other Heroes out on the street doing their thing

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I don't know how they will do

I don't know how they will do it, but the reason you had mobs of villains up and down the streets was you weren't the only hero around (like Spiderman).
It gave you plenty of room to do your thing without other heroes getting in your way and stealing your xp. (though it still happened)

Steve

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I know why, I just don't like

I know why, I just don't like it (same with the other mmo's I play, LotRo for example, the countryside around Bree is crawling with Goblins, Orcs, Bandits, and an unsupportable number of Bears & Wolves)

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I did like street sweeping,

I did like street sweeping, but, (at least early in the game) a lot of the enemy groups looked very similar: Hellions, Skulls, and Outcasts could potentially be the only enemies you saw for the first 15 levels, and that got boring. That's the reason a large group of my friends (myself included) quit a couple months after launch.

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I was not a street sweeper a

I was not a street sweeper a majority of the time, but I did appreciate that even minions gave a decent amount of XP. I would often street sweep to get that last half a bar to the next level, and I would sometimes stop and randomly fight a group of enemies wandering around on the street, just because I really did enjoy CoH's combat.

To compare to Champions, one of the things I don't like about that game is that most mobs are worth a pitiful amount of XP compared to the amount you need to get to the next level, with only Mission Completion offering a decent amount of XP. Steet sweeping in CO isn't viable at all . I much prefer CoH's method, where even Minions gave good XP, and bosses gave about the same amount as mission completion.

I make this comparison only because I hope CoT is more like CoH than CO.

(... "CoT"? Circle of Thorns?)

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Street sweeping is on the

Street sweeping is on the radar, we had quite a few talks about it in the old forums. Talks about things like acceleration - pick on a faction long enough and the next time you attack, a big boss will spawn. Talk about things like the clues system - kick enough street thugs around and one of them will tell you something interesting, or drop something intriguing, leading to a mission. So instead of looking for contact when you have nothing to do, you'd street sweep to find out what's going down, and then go after it.

Anyway, these forums are partly about saying what youd' like, and partly about discussing how you'd do it. Because the devs are listening, Come up with something good enough, and you might be able to tell people in-game, "I thought of that!". So if you have anything to add to the above, lets hear it!

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For the most part and with a

For the most part and with a little practice you could avoid a fair amount of the outside mobs in CoH , and I'm not counting using a travel power or stealth. Now, that does not mean the streets were empty, but you could for the most part choose to battle that pack of outcasts ahead, or cross the street and walk by them. Some zones, like the original Hallows, this was tougher to do, but not impossible. This let the players decide if they were going to bash every head they saw, or just get between points A and B as quickly as they liked. You could street sweep, or just head to your mission, the choice was there.

This is perhaps the only thing in GW2 that frustrates me, you are not going to walk across the map and not fight most of the things in your path, if you manage to swing around one group, you aggro another, or the path is just too narrow. In the higher level zones (especialy in Orr), if you just try and ignore the damage and run, it can easily lead to your death. Add on that shedding aggro is way more difficult and it gets worse.

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Acceleration sounds great..

Acceleration sounds great...keep targeting Thug Group C enough, you get on their radar, and they start coming after you proactively. Could this mechanic be tied to a badge system? There were "defeat X of mob Y" badges...how about as you approach X, more of them spawn/target/pursue you? There should be a way to turn this off, also...maybe once you reach X and get the badge, they learn their lesson/recognize your superiority and give it up. Also, a level differential break may be in order, as you'd think low-level mobs wouldn't lemming run into a level 50, or maybe some would be dumb enough to? Might be fun to have a mechanism where you could incite wave after wave of squashable mobs to come after you.

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Gangs, syndicates and other

Gangs, syndicates and other organizations should be treated like living organisms. If you hurt one long enough, eventually it responds differently to you. So if Captain Amazing keeps beating on the 34th Street Hoodlums often enough, the Hoodlums should react, by trying to hit him before he can hit them (ambush scenario), or if Captain Amazing is just too powerful, vanishing whenever he comes around. So now, as Captain Amazing, I've been beating on the Hoodlums for some time, and suddenly they're all gone... well, my crime-fighting activities seem to have done the trick! Time to go find more street scum to take down.

Of course the Hoodlums come out of the woodwork when Captain Amazing is gone... which means the next hero on down the line can start trashing them.

Bigger gangs and organizations might take a different tactic, hiring hit men and other higher-threat-level opposition to take your character out. So if Captain Amazing has been taking on La Familia and disrupting their operations, suddenly he might get attacked out of nowhere by a pack of augmented goons backed up by a sniper or two. La Familia might go so far as to hire Captain Amazing's own personal nemesis, Professor Peril, to get this super-powered thorn out of their backside. This might become even more of a personal storyline for the hero, as Professor Peril uses La Familia's resources to up the ante against his hated foe...

And speaking of ambushes, that should always be an option for a mission... Captain Amazing is approached by a woman who says there are thugs who've stolen her purse, and they're in the alleyway... but upoin investigation, Captain Amazing is jumped by members of the 34th Street Hoodlums backed up by a La Familia Goon Squad, all equipped with the latest technology stolen by Professor Peril! Gangs, syndicates, etc., will do anything necessary to get rid of a problem...

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My impression is that the

My impression is that the situation on this is fairly fluid as to the exact mechanics, but the intention is that street sweeping is a viable way of levelling.

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Personally I'd really like

Personally I'd really like some non-super powered thugs/organised crime etc available for street sweeping, Skuls (sic), Hellions and Trolls were all nice to beat up on, but since they were all superpowered it just seemed to make it less exclusive to be a super so to speak, I can understand restricting it to early levels but it would be nice to be able to beat up just regular run of the mill crooks as a newb

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I was told that back in the

I was told that back in the day, they had changed the death XP penalty so that it "paid" to die in an instance rather than on the street. I think I heard it was only half the penalty for dying inside vs. outside.

And street-sweeping green-cons? I always went for yellow-cons.

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John-Andre wrote:
John-Andre wrote:

Gangs, syndicates and other organizations should be treated like living organisms. If you hurt one long enough, eventually it responds differently to you. So if Captain Amazing keeps beating on the 34th Street Hoodlums often enough, the Hoodlums should react, by trying to hit him before he can hit them (ambush scenario), or if Captain Amazing is just too powerful, vanishing whenever he comes around. So now, as Captain Amazing, I've been beating on the Hoodlums for some time, and suddenly they're all gone... well, my crime-fighting activities seem to have done the trick! Time to go find more street scum to take down.
Of course the Hoodlums come out of the woodwork when Captain Amazing is gone... which means the next hero on down the line can start trashing them.
Bigger gangs and organizations might take a different tactic, hiring hit men and other higher-threat-level opposition to take your character out. So if Captain Amazing has been taking on La Familia and disrupting their operations, suddenly he might get attacked out of nowhere by a pack of augmented goons backed up by a sniper or two. La Familia might go so far as to hire Captain Amazing's own personal nemesis, Professor Peril, to get this super-powered thorn out of their backside. This might become even more of a personal storyline for the hero, as Professor Peril uses La Familia's resources to up the ante against his hated foe...
And speaking of ambushes, that should always be an option for a mission... Captain Amazing is approached by a woman who says there are thugs who've stolen her purse, and they're in the alleyway... but upoin investigation, Captain Amazing is jumped by members of the 34th Street Hoodlums backed up by a La Familia Goon Squad, all equipped with the latest technology stolen by Professor Peril! Gangs, syndicates, etc., will do anything necessary to get rid of a problem...

Didn't you hear? Captain Amazing got de-fraculated.

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Clave Dark 5 wrote:
Clave Dark 5 wrote:

And street-sweeping green-cons? I always went for yellow-cons.

No matter how fast you can drop a yellow, you can drop a green faster. its a quantity of quality thing.

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

Clave Dark 5 wrote:
And street-sweeping green-cons? I always went for yellow-cons.

No matter how fast you can drop a yellow, you can drop a green faster. its a quantity of quality thing.

Yeah, but you spend more time finding them than killing them.

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As I understand it, they

As I understand it, they found that people were completely ignoring instanced missions due to the debt problems, in that it was easier/faster to find manageable spawns to fight with street sweeping. In order to get people into the mission content, they cut the debt in half if you were defeated in missions.

Of course, combined with the mission complete bonuses, this basically led to very little streetsweeping as a regular activity, and was generally relegated to Kill # X missions/badges.

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Not exactly on topic here,

Not exactly on topic here, but I would love to see the 'street justice' powerset in the new game. lol, it could enable the return of 'Meenie Redcap'......and, of course, other badness.......

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John-Andre wrote:
John-Andre wrote:

I really don't like the idea of mobs wandering all around the city. It makes me feel like the police are completely effing useless. Why bother having them around if they don't do anything to deter crime?
What i"d prefer to see are random popup alerts where a citizen suddenly tells you 'Hey, there's some guys in the alley behind me committing nefarious deeds..."
Spider-Man 2 for the PS2 had this -- you're tooling around as Spider-Man, some random stranger would pop up and you'd have a little mini-mission to go into the alleys and beat on thugs. Champions Online has this too, but the problem there is that usually the mission the random citizen points you to is all the effing way across town -- and requires a map separate from the main map (so therefore, a loading screen -- thus, a chance to get mapserved). If a random stranger pops up yelling "HELP!" his problem should be RIGHT THERE, not halfway across The City.
And while the thugs can be in a separate map, I think if they're on the same map -- just phased from the rest of the game -- they'd work the same way.

I like that idea of having mobs in places that make sense and getting alerts of crime happening in spots. You get there and maybe theres cops there fighting with a gang of thugs. Rather then them just wondering the streets in broad day light . They should be in alley ways, or behind a building they are trying to break into, tunnels, under passes, industrial areas causing problems or rallying. Does make it seem like the police are so useless in the game when mobs are just standing on the street corner. Clearly they aren't afraid of the cops. Actually, be nice to see cop npc's actually get in on the fight. Here I am just flying around and I see some cops chasing criminals or something. Least in CO they set up a perimeter like outside a bank or something while you charge in. In fact in the alerts if the mobs get close enough, the cops will start to fire at them.

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I love the idea of being

I love the idea of being directed to a mugging or whatever "Quick! Down this alley!" Or even an audio component that's just a plea for help that you search for. GTAV would occasionally turn one of these into an ambush by thugs. That could work, too.

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I always thought there should

I always thought there should be some effect on the game if all the streets were clean at one time. Maybe a badge or something for everyone in the zone at that time. Even at a high level, I think it would be fun to form a league (probably several) and return to a low level zone and just clear it out.

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Bellerophon wrote:
Bellerophon wrote:

As I understand it, they found that people were completely ignoring instanced missions due to the debt problems, in that it was easier/faster to find manageable spawns to fight with street sweeping. In order to get people into the mission content, they cut the debt in half if you were defeated in missions.
Of course, combined with the mission complete bonuses, this basically led to very little streetsweeping as a regular activity, and was generally relegated to Kill # X missions/badges.

Bell (not Belle, dammit!) 100% captured it here.

The turning point for me was not debt (I had a ridiculous Invul scrapper at the time, so I never died heh), but when they increased mission complete bonuses from a couple hundred to a couple thousand).

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

Street sweeping is on the radar, we had quite a few talks about it in the old forums. Talks about things like acceleration - pick on a faction long enough and the next time you attack, a big boss will spawn. Talk about things like the clues system - kick enough street thugs around and one of them will tell you something interesting, or drop something intriguing, leading to a mission. So instead of looking for contact when you have nothing to do, you'd street sweep to find out what's going down, and then go after it.

Yes...yes...YES!!!!

Maybe also to encourage sweeping, have an ePunk badge 1 (100 arrests), an ePunk badge 2 (200) and another at 300 defeats.

Another - defeat A LOT ePunks (500+) and get a small DMG bonus to them for some in-game duration, but now when you face them within that duration all bosses spawn as Elite Bosses.

Or - again defeat A LOT of ePunks and the entire faction allies with you for some in-game time duration. They no longer attack you, nor can you attack them. You also earn a "Call ePunk Muscle" temp power. However, the alliance was forced, so of course they can't fully be trusted. So when you use the aforementioned temp power during an end of arc Elite Boss/AV fight...50% of the time the small ePunk gang will fight with you; 25% of time they will run away; and 25% of the time that will immediately turn on and attack you.

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Heavy Weather wrote:
Heavy Weather wrote:

Acceleration sounds great...keep targeting Thug Group C enough, you get on their radar, and they start coming after you proactively. Could this mechanic be tied to a badge system? There were "defeat X of mob Y" badges...how about as you approach X, more of them spawn/target/pursue you? There should be a way to turn this off, also...maybe once you reach X and get the badge, they learn their lesson/recognize your superiority and give it up. Also, a level differential break may be in order, as you'd think low-level mobs wouldn't lemming run into a level 50, or maybe some would be dumb enough to? Might be fun to have a mechanism where you could incite wave after wave of squashable mobs to come after you.

I support this! Didn't read it close enough first time through, but this is a very cool idea as well.

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

..., the best xp/hour for a solo player was to street sweep green-con enemies.

Ahh yessss... I remember going after groups with Yellow to Orange leutenants when i just rolled a new toon. I'd defeat the Leutenant in the group and leave the minions there, and jumped to the next Leutenant in the adjascent group. Super XP! :D

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And just for fun there should

And just for fun there should be an actual street sweeper and ya just go up and down the streets sweeping the stuff that collects on the curb of the road. ^_^ Can earn monies just doing that.

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I thought I might grow to

I thought I might grow to like GW2s map/mob structure, that being always on would be more immersive than going back to a lower level and finding mobs that were -40 to you and so ignored you.
But it's just annoying.

I am all for NPCs joining in, it makes a nice change from them just stood around. Like the fireman at the burning building, I had to put out the fire, kill all the hellions and keep topping up my fire extinguisher whilst he just stood there waving at nobody and shouting "hey, come help with this building".
Plus you can use it to educate people about powersets, by having a debuffy NPC join your party people might realise hey.. debuff0r > heal0r
Or you could have a mob resistant to toxic damage and have the NPC explain how it couldn't do enough damage by itself thus explaining damage types.
oo.. an NPC who is good with KB so 90% of people might learn how to use it properly by example.

But I digress..
Street sweeping I largely relegated to defeat badges on most of my toons most of the time but it was exceedingly useful when teaching my daughter how to play. Run up and down this road and kill snakes? She could just about handle that when she was starting out. It was pretty cool to get on the roofs and smash snakes and see other villains running out from the Zig ready to cause mayhem.

It was also incredibly useful when 7 of you were level enough to go do a TF and one person wasn't by a short margin, we'd go smash up whatever was handy until they levelled.

And I really enjoyed teaming during Halloween and raining destruction down on door mission mobs, those were some good times.

As were invasions. I am probably remembering really badly but.. didn't completing some TF or other cause an invasion? Maybe turning something in when the moon was blue ..I was hazy at the time, more so now. That was a cool mechanic, doing x triggering y in a zone. Even if I can't remember what it was.

If people won't pay enough to finance its creation, it is not worth creating.
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GH wrote:
GH wrote:

oo.. an NPC who is good with KB so 90% of people might learn how to use it properly by example.

xD!!!!!!!

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Ellysyn wrote:
Ellysyn wrote:

GH wrote:
oo.. an NPC who is good with KB so 90% of people might learn how to use it properly by example.

xD!!!!!!!

Lol. I'd read about people complaining that they have to chase things they KB and I'd be like - no, you're doing it wrong!

I loved the KB and the stun on my martial arts scrapper. I quickly figured out that if I toggled targets right and used the right attacks when, I could keep two of any three NPC mob out of the fight, whether staggering under circles or trying to get back to where he started. And of course, kicking a guy off a platform meant it took him a little while to get back in the fight..and by then, there were less of them :D

And if it was a single target, that little bit of waiting time made a great opening to use an inspiration, say, or just regain a bit of stamina. If you were a regen, KB was a godsend...not that I tried that, I just thought of it now >_<

Then again, Valiance is planning to replicate CoH's mechanics, so I guess I will get to try it eventually.

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If I'm remembering correctly,

If I'm remembering correctly, one of the updates mentioned that they wanted you to get information for leads by going around and beating up bad guys on the streets. Whether leveling through this process would be viable or not I don't know, but I think the devs are trying to put a system like this in place.

kingofsnake
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In the vein of "If you pick

In the vein of "If you pick on one faction enough a big boss will spawn"

It'd be nice if you had "reputation" bars for the different factions. As you fought them in the streets, and completed mission defeating them you would get a bigger reputation with them. And filling up the reputation bars would trigger random run-ins from that faction and faction specific missions.

So instead of just getting a badge for defeating 1000 prisoners in brickston you unlock an instance, with it's own specific loot table.

Oldenmw
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Joined: 11/02/2013 - 18:16
kingofsnake wrote:
kingofsnake wrote:

In the vein of "If you pick on one faction enough a big boss will spawn"
It'd be nice if you had "reputation" bars for the different factions. As you fought them in the streets, and completed mission defeating them you would get a bigger reputation with them. And filling up the reputation bars would trigger random run-ins from that faction and faction specific missions.
So instead of just getting a badge for defeating 1000 prisoners in brickston you unlock an instance, with it's own specific loot table.

I actually quite like this, though unlocking instances is maybe just a bit too much. Having some sort of reputation or infamy with different groups could allow for random encounters with them happen more often, specific missions involving them more likely, or random miniboss fights and the like.

srmalloy
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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

Clave Dark 5 wrote:And street-sweeping green-cons? I always went for yellow-cons.
No matter how fast you can drop a yellow, you can drop a green faster. its a quantity of quality thing.

And sometimes it was much more beneficial, too. After the introduction of IOs, and before the devs revamped it to create a "kindler, gentler" Hollows, one of the things that I would always do with low-level characters was to take them street-sweeping the south end of the zone for green-con Madness Mages, who would often drop Luck Charms, a continually-expensive component for the low-tier Accuracy IOs. Low enough to be defeated readily, but with the boss-level salvage drop chance to make them worthwhile to go after. Unfortunately, after the revamp, the Circle of Thorns became a minority spawn in the south end of the Hollows, making it much less worthwhile to go hunting there for magic salvage, because the Trolls dropped tech salvage.

kingofsnake
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It would be cool if enough of

It would be cool if enough of a mob was defeated in an area within a certain amount of time, there would be a minor event where they'd surge out near-by doors, then if heroes could defeat enough of them within a certain amount of time, they'd cease to spawn in that area for 20 minutes or something.

Thus allowing heroes to actually clean up the streets of a zone temporarily.