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Discuss: Let's get Ready to...

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JWBullfrog
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Discuss: Let's get Ready to...

All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

warcabbit
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It's a big step. We're still

It's a big step. We're still doing animation diversification, so you will be able to change out the animations, but these are the first pass done.

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Foradain
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For a first pass it looks

For a first pass it looks pretty good.

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Huckleberry
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First, thanks for discarding

First, thanks for discarding medial in favor of medium.

Second, is there a reason all the animations were done from idle stance instead of combat stance? There is a smooth transition into and out of the stance, so that is good; just wondering why you chose idle stance.

Third, the reactions to being hit are great. I can't stress this enough. Showing reactions to getting hit goes a long way towards making combat feel better and gets a huge mark in the plus column from me. Next step would be to include some sort of aural discriminator to tell the difference between when we're hit and when someone else is hit.

Fourth, I'm going to break down the numbers as shown.

  • Critical hits exist and they do 150% damage
  • Tier 1 Close Attack does 10 points of damage once
  • Tier 1 Rapid attack does 15 points of damage thrice (45 points not considered medium damage)
  • Tier 2 Nerve Attack does 10 points of damage five times (50 points considered medium damage)

Shall I assume that rapid attack is a resource hog and Close attack is a negligible cost to activate?

Fifth, the damage numbers caused and the damage numbers received appeared the same. I'm assuming this is something that will be worked on with the rest of the HUD, since there was no HUD on display during this test.

Overall, I'm happy to see combat, animations, transitions flow and all of it put into the world with the game engine.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
JWBullfrog
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

First, thanks for discarding medial in favor of medium.

Second, is there a reason all the animations were done from idle stance instead of combat stance? There is a smooth transition into and out of the stance, so that is good; just wondering why you chose idle stance.

Third, the reactions to being hit are great. I can't stress this enough. Showing reactions to getting hit goes a long way towards making combat feel better and gets a huge mark in the plus column from me. Next step would be to include some sort of aural discriminator to tell the difference between when we're hit and when someone else is hit.

Fourth, I'm going to break down the numbers as shown.

  • Critical hits exist and they do 150% damage
  • Tier 1 Close Attack does 10 points of damage once
  • Tier 1 Rapid attack does 15 points of damage thrice (45 points not considered medium damage)
  • Tier 2 Nerve Attack does 10 points of damage five times (50 points considered medium damage)

Shall I assume that rapid attack is a resource hog and Close attack is a negligible cost to activate?

Fifth, the damage numbers caused and the damage numbers received appeared the same. I'm assuming this is something that will be worked on with the rest of the HUD, since there was no HUD on display during this test.

Overall, I'm happy to see combat, animations, transitions flow and all of it put into the world with the game engine.

Don't get too worried about the damage numbers. Once we get all the back end coding in place, numbers are likely to change.

All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

amievil
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The numbers should be

The numbers should be disregarded placeholder hard coded. Once the mechanics backing combat are in they will change.

Senior Gameplay Engineer.

Darth Fez
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Nice! Being able to see

Nice! Being able to see characters run around in the park is a nice touch.

It amuses me that the sound and visual effects make it look like they're fighting with firecrackers. "No thugs were harmed in the creation of this combat demonstration."

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Cobalt Azurean
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amievil wrote:
amievil wrote:

The numbers should be disregarded placeholder hard coded. Once the mechanics backing combat are in they will change.

That's good to know as I had some concerns from initially seeing those numbers as well.

All coming together, this is exciting!

JWBullfrog
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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Nice! Being able to see characters run around in the park is a nice touch.

It amuses me that the sound and visual effects make it look like they're fighting with firecrackers. "No thugs were harmed in the creation of this combat demonstration."

Well, they did volunteer for this demonstration. We didn't want to beat them up too badly.

All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

Redlynne
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JWBullfrog wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

It amuses me that the sound and visual effects make it look like they're fighting with firecrackers. "No thugs were harmed in the creation of this combat demonstration."

Well, they did volunteer for this demonstration. We didn't want to beat them up too badly.

So long as the unpaid interns survive, they might be able to join the team (someday) ...

Granted that this was substantially a "placeholder" demonstration on the path to integration, I have 2 words of reaction to it.

MORE PLEASE.


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Tannim222
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Also note that the Rook isn’t

Also note that the Rook isn’t “a rook” it’s attacks are all placeholder as well


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amievil
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More is what I'm working on

More is what I'm working on thanks for the positive feedback.

Senior Gameplay Engineer.

Dark Cleric
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I'm excited by the

I'm excited by the implications of this update. Good job devs.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Redlynne
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Just noticed something in the

Just noticed something in the animated gifs that presents both a problem AND an opportunity at the same time.
The difference? CONTEXT.

So ... amievil ... I want to direct your attention to the movement of the feet of the avatar while touching the ground in these images.



Notice how the way the avatar's feet move while in contact with the ground is substantially frictionless ... or at the very least giving the strong impression of standing on a slip 'n' slide.
That's a problem ... in the context of standing on the ground.

However, it is also an opportunity(!) ... because that kind of "frictionless motion" is EXACTLY the kind of presentation you want to have while hovering above the ground.

So while this kind of animation of motion IS problematic when in the context of standing on the ground, it is explicitly NOT problematic in the context of hovering above the ground.

In other words, the work the MWM team has put into creating these animations need not be wasted.
They can all make good "first draft" efforts at creating the attack while hovering animations, which would then need further refinement in order to get the ground contact friction inverse kinematics working properly so the feet of the avatar aren't sliding around on the ground like we're seeing above.

So useful first draft ... change the context from ground bound to airborne and it will look wonderful.
The effort put into making these animations "as is" need not be wasted or considered a failure. Just change the context for where they happen and you're good.


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amievil
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The feet don't slide what you

The feet don't slide what you are seeing is the snap back to an idle non combat stance that will not be there once the combat stances are added in.

Senior Gameplay Engineer.

Redlynne
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amievil wrote:
amievil wrote:

The feet don't slide what you are seeing is the snap back to an idle non combat stance that will not be there once the combat stances are added in.

I'll have to take your word for it that the idle posing is the root of the issue ... although that explanation doesn't adequately explain this, I'm thinking.

I'm seeing feet sliding on the ground during the attack animation, not during the snap back to idle like you say.

So long as you're aware of the issue, that's good enough for me.


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amievil
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In that instance I was using

In that instance I was using the root lock in the animation it would normally move the character forward, but the root lock stops this. It will be disabled for release it was done for testing and filming purposes. All of the animations have some root motion and all were root locked for filming and testing so it is a non issue.

Senior Gameplay Engineer.

Hope
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That looks neat.

That looks neat.

We will have the option to not see the numbers right?

Hi. I'm Hope.

Huckleberry
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Hope wrote:
Hope wrote:

We will have the option to not see the numbers right?

Is that an option people normally expect? I can't think of a game I've ever played in which I didn't see the numbers, but then that could be because I never thought to disable them.


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Those feet sure do look like

Those feet sure do look like they're sliding around on the ground.

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Ok last time any sliding you

Ok last time any sliding you see would be movement if root lock was not enabled.

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amievil wrote:
amievil wrote:

Ok last time any sliding you see would be movement if root lock was not enabled.

So it's not as much of a problem as Redlynne thought; all you have to do is disable root lock as a default. But for a hovering combatant, or one under a reduced-friction type of damage debuff, re-enabling root lock might be a good way to show that type of effect. As Redlynne said, something to remember when making those animations.

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amievil
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Root lock is disabled by

Root lock is disabled by default. I enabled it for those update gifs to keep the character stationary,but I see the potential of it's use. Keep the feedback coming and as long as it is constructive I will listen and use what I can.

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amievil wrote:
amievil wrote:

Root lock is disabled by default. I enabled it for those update gifs to keep the character stationary,but I see the potential of it's use. Keep the feedback coming and as long as it is constructive I will listen and use what I can.

Mission Feedback Accomplished.

Just because something doesn't "work right" in one context, doesn't mean it CAN'T be used to "work right" in a different context.
Like I said, a problem ... and an opportunity ...


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This one:https://cityoftitans

This one:

Seems to 'reset' the grass, itself, after the strike. That might be a function of the animation-loop, but seems odd.

Using this on as an example, it looks like the character ought to be taking a small step, to balance the stance-change, but there's no lift/step of the foot, just a 'slide'. It's especially noticeable when the grass resets. Comparing with the background 'world', the character doesn't actually appear to 'move' at all. The Trees are static and the character's torso remains aligned. It is 'anchored', but the feet and the ground slip around. Which is counter-intuitive.
When I do martial-arts and other motions, I shift my weight between my feet, lift and move, then shift my weight again. Or, the whole weight and stance shift is a single compound movement. The actual amount of 'lift' may be minuscule enough to appear like a 'slide', but it's still a deliberate movement. One foot slides, but my weight is anchored on the other one. The 'world' does not move in response to my movement.

Looking more closely, it May be that the Characxter's movement in space is caused by the Camera moving with the Character, except there's no change in the background. Wait, no, there IS a tiny shift in the background, during the Character's motion. However, if you watch right at the character's feet, there is a definite slide between feet and ground, probably linked to the character's attachment to the Camera. So, the character's animation pushes the camera, which makes the world seem to move. And the Loop is emphasizing how much change is happening, start to finish.
This is Probably not that big a deal, and only an artifact of the gif-loop, but it does emphasize that there does Appear to be Sliding, rather that Stepping in the character movement model.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Lets not over analyze the

Lets not over analyze the animations just yet

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Lets not over analyze the animations just yet

Aye.


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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Lets not over analyze the animations just yet

Gotta echo this, and remind everyone that not only is this our first pass on combat, but like AmIEvil said, he pinned the characters in place in order to capture the gif- that's going to mess with it.

We're still at least a couple updates out from "Okay, let's start tuning this in with feedback". At that point, I'm liable to set up a special channel and all that good stuff.

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warlocc wrote:
warlocc wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Lets not over analyze the animations just yet

Gotta echo this, and remind everyone that not only is this our first pass on combat, but like AmIEvil said, he pinned the characters in place in order to capture the gif- that's going to mess with it.

We're still at least a couple updates out from "Okay, let's start tuning this in with feedback". At that point, I'm liable to set up a special channel and all that good stuff.

No Problem, but I think Part of it is that the center of movement on a person is the Navel, not the Torso, so the camera should be tethered accordingly.

Be Well!
Fireheart