I think this was attempted in the past but watching Twitch streams of people playing games has reignited the idea in my head again. What if, when you change zones in CoT, instead o having to look at a static loading screen, you get a short 10-second ad to look at. If your loading screen takes longer, you might get a second ad. The game would put the ads on a rotation such that each ad they sell to advertizers get's whatever amount of face time they're paying for based on statistics. I mean let's face it, if you have to sit there and wait for a zone to load anyway, you may as well be watching an ad instead of just staring at a screen that reads "Loading...".
—
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Ironically (perhaps thankfully in this case) I thought CoT was going to try to reduce the need for loading screens to a bare minimum. I'm pretty sure we aren't going to have them between city zones - the only place we'll likely still have them is loading in mission/trial instances.
Basically I'm against this idea in general but would tolerate them if MWM was gung-ho about it. Still like I said even if MWM wanted to do it I think there will be relatively few opportunities for having "load screen ads" in the first place.
P.S. I actually like the way Fallout 76 handles loading screens. It doesn't use them on the "main outdoor" map - it only uses them to load instanced indoor areas. Then since the game promotes people taking in-game pictures (it even has accomplishments based on taking pics) the game uses your collection of pics as a random pool for what it uses for its load screens.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
No, I hate the very idea of this. We are bombarded by ads everywhere. I need a place to escape that bull.
I have to agree with WolfSoul. And this is my personal opinion.
We see enough ads in real life that we shouldnt have to see them in our game life. Now, because ads are just a part of life, I wouldnt mind seeing fake business ads, but I dont necessarily want to see a billboard for Coca Cola as im flying through the city, or a loading screen about McDonald's new cheesy bacon fries.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
So those with bad computers, and likely less money, will see more ads because they'll take the longest to load.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Yeah that's a definite Catch-22: If you don't have enough money to have a fast Internet connection and/or fast computer to avoid the load screen ads how are you going to have enough money to buy things advertised in those ads? ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Last I knew MWM is approaching the idea of any 3rd-party advertising cautiously - if at all. It [i]has[/i] been discussed but I think the topic is currently shelved. We fear very negative response from our players... but I have an idea or two for "opt-in" if we ever get that far. Nothing I say on that has official standing though. Just a personal aside.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
I know everyone has an opinion on this subject but I probably wouldn't mind the classic "pay a monthly subscription to avoid the ads" scheme. Of course I'm biased towards wanting to pay a monthly subscription for this game regardless so I realize the people who don't like monthly subscriptions would likely be pissed by that scenario.
Also I'd probably prefer to see in-game billboards with real life ads BEFORE I'd ever want to see loading screen ads. To me loading screen ads would be the WORST possible long-term alternative.
Of course YMMV.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Opt-in isn't a bad idea. Hopefully it would earn MWM more revenue than Nike briefly paid Paragon Studios for their in-game advertisements.
Depends what's advertised. If it's like, fast food, snack food, and things like that it'd likely do pretty well targeting those with little money to begin with. Which is my inherent problem with it. I feel like it'd be preying on those who are more easily parted with their money.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
First thing that comes to mind is the android app ads ads I blurt out "fuck no!" at the thought :p
Billboards could be fun, though
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Well TBH that's sort of the -point- to advertising like this... ;)
But do I understand your more specific point about the questionable ethics of micro-targeting certain categories of people with ads that they are more uniquely "vulnerable" to.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Activate / deactivate the option ? :)
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My thing with opt-in/out, who would choose ads given the option?
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Avatar by MikeNovember
I believe the old game had an opt-out when they put in ads on city billboards. I kept it on because (1) I thought it might help the devs with income and (2) the concept fit the world perfectly.
However, the idea really didn't seem to catch on much with advertisers. I played regularly, and I saw a total of 2 ads the whole time. I suspect it will be a similar moot point in CoT.
Also, while I'd support in-city billboard ads, I think I'd vote against load screen ads for the income inequality reasons mentioned above.
Spurn all ye kindle.
I also played CoH during the "in-game billboard experiment" and never quite knew why the concept didn't work out. I guess Paragon Studios never got much interest from third parties to want to advertise in a game like that in the first place but I honestly don't know how hard they tried to make it work either. If Paragon Studios didn't aggressively promote the idea then it was likely -never- going to work.
Another point is that it's literally been like 10 years since it was tried so I don't know if times have changed enough to where if MWM tried it again in CoT they'd have more success with it. More generally speaking has any other game ever managed to effectively have in-game billboard ads like that at all?
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
One of the ideas we were, at one point, tossing around, was selling internal ads. 'Supergroup Coalition Meeting on 5/10, by the Statue of Heroism!' sort of things.
It'd probably bring in a _lot_ less money than shilling for Coke (as in like 50 bucks a month, max), but it'd grow a sense of community.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
I come from a family that does advertising. As a rule you don't want placement where the audience is likely to be hostile to that presence. But there are things that may qualify for this audience. Games and superhero-type movies come to mind.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
If there was ads on would be loading screens it could actually cause me to not play. I like to have music going and feel a flow. I like to have voice chat discussions with friends even if we're in different games.
If either of those things are suddenly interrupted because Ford wants me to see their new truck, I'm out. I don't pay for what bandwidth I get out here so it can be used by unwanted ads. Youtube has really been stepping up how many ads it wants to play in the recent months. I used to get home from work and put youtube on the Wii U/Switch while I eat dinner. I'm really REALLY tired of having Squarespace shoved down my throat, not just before videos, bur during them. Now instead of relaxing on the couch, I sit at my computer desk for the ad block. When all I have is an iPad, the only time I'll turn on Youtube is when there's nothing of interest to me on Twitch. I am intentionally late to movies, because I have 0 interest in watching those adds that are going to ruin what could have been an interesting twist. When AdBlock+ announced a whitelist program to allow 'safe' ads, I changed extensions immediately. I live in Canada where we have a fraction of the amount of billboards the US has, and I still think there's far too many.
Not everyone will feel as strong as I do, I just wanted to be clear how averse to advertising I tend to be. This suggestion would greatly diminish the enjoyment I could get out of the game, and I would hold it against it.
I pay the monthly premium with YouTube to [i]not[/i] get ads. It's worth every penny. I can comfortably watch my YouTube on any of my devices without adding any additional software.
I have an idea...
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
In some games I've played you could buy from the cash shop items that would broadcast a message game wide.
Potentially selling an item that does that to players might be an idea. People could use it for super group recruitment, costume contests, and the like.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I'm glad Lothic brought up the idea of making the paid subscription be the buy-out of the loading screen ads, as that was my first thought after I posted it. I was inspired to raise this topic again when watching a live Twitch stream of a guy playing a recently-zombified version of what used to be a pretty good hero game some of us, including me, used to like. The streamer was like "you guys post links to songs you like, and I'll play them." then he constantly had to deal with the YouTube ads when people posted the links, much to his consternation. He explained later that he was reduced to doing this because his Spotify subscription recently expired. I mean, you COULD re-up your Spotify sub, couldn't you? And if you're going to be doing Twirtch streams, wouldn't you like WANT to do that?
As for those who don't like ads in their games, I have to ask, do you like 10-second long loading screens that are just a static, unmoving still shot and the words "Please Wait" any better? And if you do take along time to load a zone, you COULD take off your headphones and go get a snack or take a bathroom break while changing zones, right? When I play Overwatch there are loading screens where you hear a voice say things like "Now traveling to Hanamura...", is that not harshing your musical rhythm too?
Lastly, I want to point out that people who can't afford a sub will probably not mind the free game with the ads as much as us VIP subbers mind it. I mean they'll still not like it, but then they ARE getting a game to play with no ongoing costs to them, one assumes. I think people can put up with ads if they know the alternative is to pay a monthly sub that they literally can't pay because they're 14 and don't have a credit card. This is a model that is used by YouTube, so people know it exists. It's annoying, sure, but you could pay a sub to get rid of it. Plus I think we're assuming that the purchase of the game comes with some amount of sub time anyway. So people will know there's an ad free option, if they want to pay for it. Plus, the ad is not replacing immediately available game action, it's replacing a part where you have to wait anyway. This, in my mind, makes it better than even YouTube's ad model, because they're making you wait until the ad is over to play the video. In this case, you can't get back to actual gaming until the load is done anyway, so you're going to wait one way or the other.
I personally have YouTube Red and more often than not I forget to log in because I don't care about the skippable ads that much in the first place.
But then of course there's the real question: how much money would this actually make for the company in the first place? Would it support the game on its own with the combined effect of people subbing and ad revenue combined? I don't know. If it definitely would, I think it's a no-brainer that you should do it, if not, then what fills in the gaps? Microtransactions? I'm not 100% against microtransactions if they're done well, but I don't want the game to turn into a microtransaction-driven money grab like many games seems to be falling prey to.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
This was essentially what I was talking about [url=https://cityoftitans.com/comment/170978#comment-170978]earlier in the thread[/url] applied to CoT.
Again I'm sure there would be some people who'd hate the idea - I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
So there's three parts here.
1: Loading screens.
Let's toss this around a bit. Loading screens. We want to eliminate 'em, but we probably can't _completely_. What do you want there? Fake ads? Scenes of elsewhere in the game? Real (nonvideo) ads? Text ads? Random art?
2: Ads in general. "Buying a global shout" isn't the worst idea, really. Could also do it as a MOTD or a billboard. I welcome opinions. Any global shout would, obviously, have to pass muster insofar as being appropriate. A list of random obscenities wouldn't be accepted, nor a shortened text link that installs malware.
3: Corporate advertising: Billboard ads? Sponsored content (... I'm kinda tempted by the idea of a Pepsiman quest, but I'm a goof - but it'd have to be done _right_) Sponsored clothing? I mean, would you wear a McDonalds logo on purpose? A Ford logo? I will confess to having a Firebird T-Shirt somewhere cause I like the flaming chicken. Would you compete to get it? I ask because FFXIV did pretty much exactly that for Yo-kai Watch, and FFXV did it for cup-a-noodle.
I'm not saying I'm in favor of any of these things (except some kind of public announcement purchaseable by players) but they're things other people have done, and I'd love your feedback on it.
And to be clear: this wasn't something we were really talking about in MWM-land, it was discussed ages ago and shelved.
If you have any ideas, go ahead, chuck 'em in the thread. We're listening. We may not take your advice, because, among other things, Coca-Cola may not want to advertise with us.
But, hey, while the topic's on hand, might as well listen to what you have to say.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
First thing that comes to mind, if any company like Coca Cola were to actually spend money putting themselves in this game to advertise, is instead of billboards or loading screens (which id guess get ignored more often than not no matter what is on it) to have actual content. Coca Cola pays x amount of money and they for a radio mission, theme, or whole story arc based on their budget. They could have an NPC made specifically for them that may or may not be available in the chargen. It could literally be a walking can of coke as the big boss of their mission or story arc. Everything about the mission would be geared toward coke and in the mission(s) would obviously be tons of advertising. "Go clear out the [enemy] that took over the coke factory". Coke posters would be everywhere, as would actual coke cans, etc etc etc.
The dev time required to do this would likely require a larger price than what Coke would be willing to pay a game like this that doesnt already have millions of players...but that would be, IMO, the funnest way to get funding from advertisers.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
I'd favor "random in-game city snapshots" before almost anything else. As I mentioned earlier Fallout 76 randomly selects from the pool of player-snapped in-game pics as loading screens. But assuming player snapped pics will -not- be a big thing in CoT then I'd settle for random pics from a pool of hardwired pics provided by MWM.
Players being able to buy in-game "global shouts" is a fun idea that I'm sure some people would use. Obviously I wouldn't expect MWM could live off the profits of this feature alone but at least it might provide a few extra hundred bucks a month you would not otherwise get.
I'd probably be good with in-game passive billboards with real-world advertising and maybe even a few "logoed costume items" but I don't want much more than that. I don't think I'd want things like "The so-n-so trial brought to you by McDonald's". Basically real world advertising should never affect the in-game lore or fundamental game mechanics. There should be no contests, badges or "rewards" of any kind based on it. The key phrase would be "passive advertising".
P.S. At least if advertising logos are allowed on costume items I could create a Captain Amazing clone...
[img=500x500]https://yearwithkinnear.files.wordpress.com/2018/06/captain-amazing-mystery-men-movie-h1.jpg[/img]
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
IMO
1: I like random scenes from the game :)
2: NotBad.jpg
3: Honestly I think sponsored mission content is the best idea. I remember the business guy talking about that in an older thread. "Save the VP of Pepsi", "Steal the IBM prototype chip", "Defeat the villain in the Neslie plant". I can't imagine wearing an explicit real world logo or such on a toon, BUT something a bit further off could be a good. How about costume pieces from other games (since they're sponsored), the Iron Helmet from Skyrim, a Spiderman costume, Stormbreaker?
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Does Coke still have those redeemable codes on the inside of the 12-pack, and under the bottle cap (*checks current beverage real quick*). They do!
So here's an idea. You set it up that you can go in game to a Coke vending machine, click on it, and type in a coke rewards code for in-game rewards like a singe-use temp power that "refreshes" you by refilling your endo or health or something. You also have the option of shaking it up and spraying badguys with it (single-use cone attack, foe get's disoriented or something). Or you can submit a lot of the codes to unlock some item like a Coke Polar Bear vanity pet that follows you around and puts on sunglasses, and whips out a bottle of coke and drinks it occasionally, etc. Or maybe you can get a temp pet summon Coke Bear that can ATTACK! That would be awesome. Maybe have a badge (called Soda Jerk, maybe?) for getting like some number of Coke rewards codes.
In general, I like, and I think sponsors would like, ad strategies that encourage players to go out and buy their products in order to gain an in-game perk. In-game perks are basically free to manufacture, whereas making the sponsor have to provide t-shirts etc so that you can give them away to players for playing your game is more expensive.
As for Ads on the game's Broadcast channel, I'm not a fan of that. It tends to add more spam to the broadcast channel and causes me to tune that info feed out entirely.
As for loading screed ads, I'd be ok with video ones with sound, as long as they're only as long as the YouTube ones, which are like 15 sec, I think.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I appreciate the OP's desire to find alternative funding sources for the game. However, I prefer subscription to ads and if I paid a subscription, I would not want to see ads at all. Loading screen ads would likely break my immersion and focus on the game. (Especially a video vs poster ad). I would turn off my sound/screen/avert my gaze/cover my ears and hum showtunes/poke myself with a stick... to avoid it like I do with youtub.
My main concern with ads is how it may affect the overall culture of the game developers and impact the content they create. Dependence on ad revenue would make this even more problematic. Once you taste the koolaid, it's hard to remove the red stain from your lips...
Oh yeah!
I would support sources of revenue which do not keep the developers beholden to interests outside of their basic mission to make an awesome game. They have enough on their plate, I expect.
If I saw a button labeled 'summon Coke Bear' I would be stuck in that twilight zone of simulatneous terror and temptation. I'm certain it will haunt my dreams. Thank you Radiac. :-)
If it gives the devs more to work with I think we can live with the ads being there.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
I consider those advertising as well. Or "Rescue New Kids On The Block!" and the reward is (A NKOTB T-Shirt) or (a distinctive haircut) - It wouldn't be 'This Trial Is Sponsored by McDonalds' but rather 'The Slumbering are robbing McDonalds'! Find out why and stop 'em!'
That is to say, anything sponsored in game, would have to be part of the world of Titan City, but since it's 'the world outside your window' it's not like it's _hard_ to integrate it.
Again, it's not like I'm advocating for this, it's just, yes, I _have_ spent time thinking about it, and if we were to do that, we'd have to do it _right_.
... though that Marshmallo concert inside Fortnite did give me more ideas, recently, yeah.
The Coke Bear concept, for example, we thought about and mostly turned down because it'd be like P2W.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Advertising in-game items that you can actually buy in the in-game shops might be OK. That would literally be part of the game. Of course I'm speaking of items purely of a cosmetic nature.
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[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]
If you can get a temp power that's not totally overpowered for the cost of a single bottle cap code, like the baseball bat or the revolver in CoX, or even the PPD Hardsuit, which to my knowledge most people ignored or weren't even aware of in the first place, then A) you don't actually win in any real sense and B) you paid for the beverage, not the ancillary perk, one can argue, and also, you might not have paid for it at all, maybe you bummed a bottlecap off of a friend, etc.
So like, if its a vanity pet bear, its not pay to win. If its a bear that totally owns a map for you, that's bad for the game in generally, because you don't want the game to be all about the bears, do you wouldn't want to do that at all, P2W or not. If it's a disappointingly weak pet that looks cool and can maybe soak up a little aggro for you for a second while getting an attack or two in, that seems fair to me. Also, you could (and probably should) disable all temp powers in PvP anyway.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I doubt these major brand companies would allow much freedom if we were to use their "VP" or even their mascot for example in missions. In fact, I could see them having a huge list of requirements we'd need to follow and approvals they'd need to go through before they would allow anything like that. Things like full control over dialogue, locations(can't really have the CEO of Build A Bear in a bar), the way the character looks, etc...
This would just be a nightmare to deal with. A simple billboard with the product and a tagline should be as far as we should go if we were considering ads in my opinion
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
I like this. Some of the work was already done in creating the item for the shop, so impact on the devs is minimal. I also like the idea of buying a global shout out and think I might use it on special occasions.
Here's a simple idea that is technically in game advertising, but functional for the game. Note that it won't generate money for MWM, but could generate data for future efforts. Vending machines for ST bases/personal housing. Licensing permissions should be easy to obtain (at least as easy as they CAN be.) Make them available at "give away" prices and they will be a popular item. Perhaps pair them with a recycle bin that is place-able separately. Limiting them to bases gives direct customer interaction data and absolves MWM of any outdoor placement headaches while giving a nice option for customers.
Then later, as data is accumulated, companies can be approached saying THEIR vending machine was a hit with players and here's an idea we have to expand on that. This gives the devs a measure of control on when and how to expand IF they want to.
An important part of the game play experience is that it immerses you in its world. Titan City is a fictional place that is close to our reality. A schism occurs when there is an ad for something that has an obvious clone in the game. You can't really design a McDonalds in game for whatever legal reason, but they could have a Mac Donals. So what happens if an ad for McDonalds plays in the game? It is just a break from the continuity of the game world.
Also, to touch on the "10 second loading screen" aspect: Not everyone will experience the loading screen transition in the same manner. There could be lag issues with the internet that make it last longer. The game could have resources on a HD instead of a SSD. There could be any number of reasons. Would the game display only one 10 second ad per loading screen? If so, what happens during the remaining time? Would it play as many ads as possible (2+ ads) to fill your loading screen "down time"?
The Twitch analogy is probably what frames my disgust for ads most (two parts). First, you can still see chat going about its chatty business while the ad plays. Sometimes more than one ad will play back to back to back and during those times the people who are subscribed do not see the ads nor does the streamer. So in some cases they continue talking about whatever topic and you are _excluded_ from participating (you only really see what people type in chat, so you experience half of a conversation). The second part is that there are some ads that I tolerate, some that I like and some that I loathe.
Take this current ad that is in the rotation:
[youtube]a2jg43Xr0V8[/youtube]
I do not enjoy the woman's voice. I especially hate the way she emphasizes the word "around" at the 14 second mark. That one thing annoys me enough right now that I take my ear buds out or mute the stream. I don't really care one way or the other for Intuit. I do not use any of their products or services, but the fact that they made this commercial places them in an unfavorable position with me if I ever consider them in the future. I am held hostage by their substandard commercial and I now will forever look at them in a certain light.
And to speak to the "Now traveling to Hanamura..." transition. It is a part of the game client and is helping to smooth over the loading down time. You aren't really traveling anywhere, bits are just being loaded and synchronized. What it does do is reinforce that your character IS traveling to Hanamura. It helps maintain the narrative of the game world when the game isn't being played.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
Ever play Ghost Recon Wildlands? Half the clothing/costume options are actually branded 5.11 Tactical Gear.
[color=red]PR Team, Forum Moderator, Live Response Team[/color]
Speaking of games centering on war -- now, I'm ethically opposed to this -- but there's an idea that many shooters implement is licensing weapon manufacturers' weapons. E.g. having an officially licenced HK45 from H&K. Pretty easy to implement with AD.
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[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
For loading screens I like hints. Most of the time it's useless crap (you can press space bar to jump!) But sometimes, sometimes it's something you didn't know or didn't realize.
If we could have loading screens with some good hints, or bits of lore on them that'd be fine for me... As long as there was a way to go and view the info elsewhere too (it's always bothersome when you find something that could be interesting but then vanishes before you finished loading). I might not always read mission dialogue and I probably wont read the entire encyclopedia of lore, but I'll read loading screens.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Many games use (or have used) chyrons on their load screens to offer up useful bits of trivia like this. Fallout 76 is good current example of that. That game randomly cycles up a new helpful sentence of info roughly every 5 seconds during a load screen and even after playing the game for many hours that info has not seemed repetitive and continues to be useful.
P.S. TBH I mostly responded to your post because I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to use the word "chyron" in a sentence before. Thanks. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Hints, good plan, and they should be somewhere in the help files too, yeah.
I learned the word 'chyron' during the Bush-Gore election due to all the chad discussions.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
Sure I've known the word for years... just never had a need to type it before. It's like how often do most people use words like xylophone or antidisestablishmentarianism in a sentence?
I must admit while I was checking to make sure I spelled it right I learned that it was actually the name of the company that developed the original tech to put words on a screen like that. So in that sense 'chyron' is like xerox, band-aid or Q-tip. Learn something new every day. :)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Way back when I was part of the talk phase of City of Titans. Think we didn’t have the name yet it was the Phenix Project just after Golden Girl left to start the Hero’s and Villains.
Well we talked about ads one idea I had was sponsored Emotes. The ad would be a coke vending machine or poster. Click on it you get the Emote /em Cokecola and your character drinks a can of coke.
Or eats a pizza holding the box from Pizza Hut.
So the ads offer something to the players, there a track record of how many players clicked on the add for the emote. There the secondary ad of the players advertising the product.
A slight different idea is buying products for your player home and base that sponsored by the company. Want your base computer to be an Alienware product? How about an Apple? Lazy boy seats in your crib. Why not? Again easily tracked how many buy the virtual copies of real world products.
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
A lot of good ideas going on this thread! Personally I think the happy medium for most will fall towards any loading screen time being dedicated to hints and in-game scenes.
I like the ideas of real life products like Pepsi and coke being attached to missions/arcs somehow. Personally I wouldn’t mind billboards in game having real life ads either. For me the key is that I would prefer any ads regardless of where it be is done in a genre related way.
I’m also of a mind, as others have said, that I don’t expect to waste my bandwidth on a bunch of advertising while playing a game I use to escape reality. So perhaps as Lothic suggested the opt-out could be the subscription model... something I will be aiming at personally as it is my preference to avoid as much advertising as possible in general.
Still an ad of the hulk crushing a finished Pepsi can against Loki’s skull does appeal to my inner child...;-)
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
Trouble I have with the opt-out model is it becomes harder to share some experiences. One player sees an ad for say coke on a bilboard, another sees an add for some in universe thing. If either ad is humerous or otherwise engaging they then can not easily share that with one another.
A minor problem, but it does create a divide where in two characters don't inhabit quite the same world as one another.
Might just be my own personal view of it.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Well that definitely points out the difference between having opt in/out ads for something like loading screens (which [b]would not[/b] affect the in-game environment) versus having opt in/out ad choices for things that [b]would[/b] affect the in-game environment (like the billboards).
While you do bring up an interesting point about two players potentially seeing different things on an in-game billboard I'm not sure that would be "game-breaking" enough to matter in the greater scheme of things. I suppose if the phenomena did become distracting enough to the playerbase as a whole then they'd have to change it somehow.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I agree with this - hints and bits of lore would be preferable to ads.
Or at the very least -included- with the ads so that you can pay attention to them [i]instead[/i] of the ads. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
At the worst case, we'd just have a picture of coke - not like one of those video ads on load. I want to make that clear. Video load screens would just make _everything_ go to hell.
[color=#ff0000]Project Lead[/color]
This link is to a recent article about how a US Senator is sponsoring a bill that would make pay to win and loot boxes illegal in the US.
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/442690-gop-senator-announces-bill-to-ban-manipulative-video-game-design
(Shockingly, for me, he's a Republican. Maybe when they were asking about party affiliation he saw "Republican" and thought it referred to Asus's "Republic of Gamers", who knows...)
If the bill passes, does that spell doom for all microtransactions? Probably not, but it's a step in that direction.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Yeah TBH I wasn't even assuming you'd be considering VIDEO load screens (i.e. YouTube). I was assuming you were -only- considering static pic ads, basically replacements for static screenshot pics.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I don't know how everything works, and don't care if its a video or a static pic ad, as long as the money the devs get is worth it. Frankly, if that's all it is, it's not much of a perk to subscribers to not have to see it. I mean if its that or a game stillshot, the fact that I'm waiting for something to load is the main annoyance, not the screen i get to look at while that's happening.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Frankly when it comes to Congress doing silly things with technology it doesn't usually matter if they have a 'R' or a 'D' beside their name. One of the last truly bi-partisan qualities both parties share is their blinding ignorance for how to properly handle/regulate the Internet. This idiot you're referring to is probably having shell-shock flashbacks of when Pac-Man was going to destroy civilization back in 1981. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
+1 on Congress and the Internet
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I heard about the loot box thing and banning loot boxes in video games is a step in the right direction. Even if it doesn't pass hopefully it will make game publishes think twice before shoehorning in such exploitative practices. The linked article in the thread also explicitly calls out pay-to-win microtransactions so all around seems like a pretty good deal, though being from a politician I can't imagine the bill isn't trying to sneak something else by.
Publishers have failed to regulate themselves so now the government is stepping in to do it for them.
A note on the potentially vague description of pay-to-win microtransactions makes me wonder what the language of the bill describes those as. Is a DLC expansion to a game offering an increased level cap and new more powerful items to be found in a sense a pay-to-win microtransaction?
Mostly I just want to know how all this will affect the consumer. I suppose it's too soon to tell, as the bill will lilely get changed, ammended, added to, and what have you between now and it's possible passing.
I should probably check out Jim Sterling's video on the subject.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I think a step in the right direction might be to insist that boxes give an amount of in-game currency to buy an item outright after x boxes.
E.g.: to get a Aether Pirates BoilerBorg arm, you can 1) get a lootbox that may contain it, or 2) buy it for 500 Stars, but each lootbox comes with 100 stars, so after 5, you can just buy it.
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
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Avatar by MikeNovember
With a return on boxes like that I'd have to wonder the price of these hypothetical loot boxes of yours.
But I know the numbers weren't the point of your post.
No matter how it's handled if loot boxes cost real world money (or a paid premium currency that you can/have to buy woth real money) it's still gambling. There's ways to mitigate the allure of them (have them be purely cosmetic items in a game where cosmetics aren't the only form of progress and/or not having limited timed items in them and/or having everything that's in them being available for specific purchase seperately) but no matter how you slice it it is gambling.
Now having a loot box that costs IGC is a different story. An IGC box that has the possibility to drop a handful of premium currency is an idea. Also could help sell some stars, "oh, I'm only x away from having the amount I need, I could go and farm up IGC for the boxes to have a chance to edge ever closer to what I want... Or I could just pay a little money and get the thing I want right now!" Might not be a bad idea as the boxes could also contain equips, recipes, some rare (or exclusive to the IGC box) customization options, etc. Also would give high end players something to spend their vast wealth on, especially as you could make it so only the most expensive IGC box has the chance to drop stars.
A 2:30am thought that I took all of 0 seconds to think about, so it might not even be a good idea. *shrug*
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
An Advantage of MMO content is that it can be interactive. That way, one can do things with it that No static format or even motion-display format can take advantage of. An Issue to consider is that one cannot really 'age-target' the content and it is 'perpetual'. Not as in 'infinite', but as in 'always available'. There is no way (or not many) to control who can/will see the content, or When they will encounter it, or from Where.
To me, that means that any ads Should be interactive and also appropriate for all ages and regions. Those factors might scare off some advertisers, especially with the 'limited audience' factor inherent in an MMO.
Be Well!
Fireheart
For me, the absolute worst option would be to have content that is specifically linked to products. I'd take billboards or even load screen ads long before I'd want to do a mish that forced my character to be linked to real world products in that way. One would think the alignment system would require the option to go against the corporation sponsoring the content, something I don't think they would appreciate. So you'd run into the problem that characters from across the spectrum would be forced into the path that supports the advertiser. So much for 'tell your own story.' Unless these mishs were *entirely* optional, meaning never any badges or otherwise unique in-game rewards associated with them. And the more the game provides an opt-out, the less attractive the ads are to folks who are paying for them. And I'm still not convinced that paying to advertise in our little world will be attractive to corporations in the first place.
Also, I'll repeat what others have said on other threads regarding real-world rewards: given that players will be scattered across the globe, it would be pretty much impossible to make such rewards fair for/applicable to everyone, thus being more of a divisive influence than anything else. Also, probably a legal or at least marketing nightmare for MWM.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Good point on how they'd feel about evil options. Marketing teams.........have different brains ;)
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Avatar by MikeNovember
I don't think it would be any worse than having a phased view of the world, like the different enemy populations in Atlas Park before and after you finished the initial missions following the revamp.
Or when everyone would see a different object materialize when a gravity controller used Propel.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
Yeah, it's definitely not a big problem. Just something that would bug me if attention is drawn to it.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I would totally wear a shirt with a McDonalds logo on it. That would be perfect for Munchie Man (saves lives and is part of your complete breakfast). I have a character on CoX right now who looks like a burly day laborer with an orange safety vest, t-shirt, ratty jeans, work boots, tattooed arms and dockworker hat. He’s an axe/shield Brute with a shovel weapon and manhole cover shield. His name is Blue Collar Bill. I wish there was a corporate logo to put on his shirt.
Also, how awesome would it be if in the middle of a mission, Kool-Aid Man could bust through a wall to offer refreshments to restore your strength? That’s a corporate sponsorship I’d love.
The counter to that is the idiot who also uses that shirt option then starts running around town being verbally abusive to the player base. For whatever reason this person is playing an "abrasive" persona and it gains some notice and someone complains about it. They take a screen shot of the abuse (that includes an image of the character in question) and posts it on social media. The logo does not need to be a part of the debate, but it is in plain sight and gets associated with the conflict.
How does MWM insulate the sponsor from collateral damage? Would a potential sponsor want to place themselves in a position where that could occur? I think any sort of sponsored costuming options would be perilous.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
Sponsor logos on costumes has been a thing for many years in various games and platforms. My Xbox avatar had such a thing for years. I’ve never heard of this problem. I don’t think it’s anything to worry about.
Since Adpocalypse, I've worried about similar trollishness. Similar to the control over dialogue and wariness to "evil" options. They just...have different brains.
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
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Avatar by MikeNovember
More important to me: how does MWM shield itself from the wrath of the now-unhappy corporate sponsor?
Spurn all ye kindle.
These are all the kinds of questions we'll be asking ourselves before we commit to anything. It's not an easy choice.
[color=green]All Purpose Frog[/color]
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.