Moving from January into February and, once we dug most of the crew out from under the polar vortex, we had a lot going on. While the alpha restoration was happening, other team members were working on the Chargen UI graphic overhaul, and have made enough progress that we've finally been able to greenlight production of a video showing it off. While we aren't putting a deadline on it, we hope to be able to finally show the Character Creator in action soon.
But, for now, here's a quick peek.
—
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
Thanks again for the quick morsel of info!
I like the "look and feel" of the pic you provided. I assume (just based on the number and slider position shown) that these body model settings are going to be based on a "1 to 100" scale which seems pretty reasonable. As always looking forward to getting to play with it myself. :)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
+1
This reminds me of the UI for Star Wars Galaxies, which gives me happy nostalgia.
Again! Another great and quick update, this is good!
So, yeah I like the clean look, it isn't too simple. It has a good overall balance between the gradient and the solid colors. I like it. ????????
About the video, I am getting way too excited, but maybe this is a good sign, heh. Looking forward to seeing more of the Chargen, so yeah! Nice ????????
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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I really dislike being negative/pessamistic but this strikes me so odd. I don't 'forum' much but I remember a dev, not sure which one, back in December said even up to a week before announcing they wouldn't hit the pre-alpha deadline they were still hopeful on releasing it. Yet here we are 2 months later and the chargen is only to a point where they can start making a video to show everyone. So hopefully within a month or two we'll get the video. Which I'm sure will be great...it just seems like we are being lied to. Super hopeful for the project, still the project I want to succeed among the superhero genre games in production, but I just don't get it. I probably shouldn't even post this but it's the first thing that came to my mind when I read this mini update and its all I can think about this project.
Eh, keeping a group of Devs in-line on a project is hard enough even in the best scenarios. Given that the MWM folks are geographically spread around just makes maintaining a unified message that much harder. So when the "end of 2018" thing started to look like it wasn't happening it's easy to see where some of the Devs likely remained more optimistic that it was still going to happen than others which could easily explain the mixed-messaging.
Anyway I long ago adopted a "it'll get here when it gets here" mindset to this game. Sure I was optimistic things were going to happen a few months ago based on what was being posted but until I have something tangible to download and play with I'm not really going to let myself get too excited (and/or too discouraged) based on anything that any Dev merely "says" in this forum.
Ultimately I don't see it as being "lied" to by the Devs as much as Devs simply being "Devs". I wouldn't read too much into it either way.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
And still, they said they were set back by 3 months, we still didn't have any video, so this, even if we didn't get a date, is an important and major progress, which shouldn't be taken too lightly though.
While we get excited, so do they. That means, we should take some deep breaths, resist the urge to assuming things, not even confirmed yet, date-wise, and just appreciate their forthcoming information.
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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Nice snip of the UI slider! Thanks for the tidbit!
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
BrandX pointed out over Discord that it seems like the box above the slider, in which you have a number, seems like it'd be interactable, so that you could enter in the number you want. I've played around with tools that do that before, and one of the problems (or, rather, interesting effects) that can arise from such is that you don't have to stay within the natural bounds of 0 to 100, since you can theoretically type in "-20" or "170". Has that been accounted for here?
Past that, echoing the statements that I love these tweet updates.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
You are able to enter a value directly into that box. It will not, however let you exceed the min/max values set into the slider. For example: you can type in 270 but it will only set the slider to maximum.
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
So it takes the value from the slider, not from the box?
Box sets slider, slider sets value, which will be used for the specific part. Slider has min and max values, which will specify the boundaries of that part.
That's how I understood it.
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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That's pretty much it.
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
And we did have a working version of the character generator back then. We had to get the back end of the server and the patcher working again and while we have been at it, making updates to the character creator. The UI screen shot above is far nicer looking than our original.
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- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Well I hope an Pray you guys decide to stick in a Name Generator in some place, get tired of making chars in games just to get to picking a name an the name i want is already taken, ,DCUO sucks so bad for this,
Unlike DCUO, you can have a character name used by other players. Your character names are attached to your account. For example, you might have Superweasel but your character is Superweasel@Captain_Titan. I can make a character named Superweasel who would be Superweasel@Atama. Same in-game name, but unique to the system. This is how Champions Online does it too.
*ravenously consumes nugget of info*
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Given the way that names and costumes interact with characters, it might be useful to have a 'Name Prospector' before the character creator. Or, at least parallel to it.
So you can check to see if 'Blue Beetle' is an available name and change the character's color scheme to match the available names.
Be Well!
Fireheart
PS: I have NEVER run across a 'Name Generator' that made a good name.
No one else can steal your names in this game. You can have any name you want, just one per account.
The Altruist, Invulnerability/Super Strength Stalwart.
So I stumbled across this request for the devs of another game, but they don't seem to have done anything with it...
[img=800x1200]http://egscomics.com/comics/20091126_BLEO.png[/img]
I'm fairly sure I read, but I cannot find to confirm, that we will be able to make both male and female costumes for the same character. Am I remembering correctly?
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
As Atama just re-explained [b]any[/b] name will always be "available" for any player to use based on the way the global name system will work. In fact that's pretty much the entire point of having a global naming system like this.
But it might be interesting if the game could let you know if a particular name has ever been previously chosen by any other player so we could have the -choice- as to whether we wanted to use it for ourselves or not. So for example I type in "Captain Amazing" for a character name and it comes back with something like "That name has been used by 8 other players. Do you still want to use it?" I would still be totally free to use it for my own character if I wanted to, but by knowing that info I could decide whether I wanted to try to come up with a name that was relatively unique or not.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Actually I'm not sure if the CoT Devs have specifically commented on exactly this point or not.
We do know that the Devs here have said they are going to try to make it so there are no "gender locked" costume items in the game. This means that your character will be able to wear any costume item regardless if you're using the male or female body model. But as far as being able to switch between the body models from costume slot to costume slot I'm not exactly sure.
For what it's worth we know that the [url=https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Super_Booster_III:_Superscience#Super_Tailor_Feature]CoH SuperScience Booster[/url] did eventually allow people to do exactly what you're talking about here in CoH. With that booster update you were able to set each of your costume slots to use any body model you wanted (Male, Female or Huge). Basically I see no real reason why we shouldn't have this option by default in CoT. It would likely be fairly trivial for them to provide a selector switch to allow us to choose which body model we wanted for each costume slot. Having such a "body model selector" in place from the very beginning might prove to be even more useful if the Devs ever get around to offering more body models than just Male or Female. For instance if they ever offered a "Centaur" body style then this option could just be added to the selector choices available.
P.S. I'm all for the "Holy crap I have boobs!" emote idea. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Thanks for the peek! So far the reaction to these mini-updates tells me that the player base is generally happy with the bite-size info.
The wee box to the left of the slider: is that for locking this particular characteristic once we have it just the way we want?
Spurn all ye kindle.
The image seems to imply that the number (in this case torso length) is in a range from minimum to maximum (probably a numerical value 1 to 100). This makes sense from a design perspective. The interface is trying to tell the user where the upper and lower bounds are located for that feature. What I think might be missing is the user perspective of what a value of "58" means beyond just looking at the character model and eyeballing it.
Could there be a toggle option to display units of measure for these features so the user has a slightly better grasp of what they are creating while they are creating it? If you have ever purchased fitted clothing, you have a general idea of your body proportions. With an experience like that, knowing the measurements of what you are tweaking can help you craft your character.
I think another option would be to show the user a few reference points. Have a separate view that shows a lineup of a few varied citizens, your character and maybe a couple of core characters (Anthem and large baddie) so you can gauge where your character fits. Plus if you get too deep in the weeds and lose perspective on what you are creating you can do a quick gut check before entering the city.
Another thing on my mind wrt body measurements is how will the costume(s) tweak your proportions? If I have a "Tony Stark" normal human sized character and slap a mech suit on him, will that version be X inches taller and bulkier? Would I have to change the body proportions to make the mech suit "look right"?
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
You are exactly right about the little gray box. It is a lock.
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
My take on this is that if they tried to equate their apparent semi-generic 1 to 100 scale to "real world" measurements that the numbers they'd have to come up with would be just as arbitrary and vague as any other scale they attempted to use. Since we're dealing with the indirect point of view of players looking remotely at computer graphics they'd have to do their best to estimate the difference between some part appearing to be for instance 24" versus 26" long and it ultimately wouldn't be any more clear or exact for players looking at it than using an universal arbitrary scale.
Ultimately I believe it would be wasted effort on the Devs' part for them to try to define/scale these numbers in any other way than a simple 1 to 100 scale. Besides if they attempted to define things in imperial inches you'll get people who'd want them to also offer metric centimeters - why bother with two scales for this when they can keep it to one generic set of arbitrary numbers that we'll all get used to?
It's likely that some costume items will add "random bulk" to character's bodies in various ways. It would seem easy enough that if, for instance, a suit of armor makes your character look too tall for your liking that you could just dial back the overall height a tick or two. This does not really come off as a "problem" that needs to be solved by MWM as much as an issue of deciding exactly how you as the player wants to customize your own characters.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Lothic you deserve a cookie for not once using the word “jiggle”.
Cool; thanks!
Now all I need is a Random button for individual costume piece slots and I'll be all set.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Actually via that metric I probably deserve several dozen cookies by now. For what it's worth I have actually avoided directly using the "J word" on this forum for several years now.
To be clear my views on the topic haven't really changed, but I've been willing to let MWM miss out on that opportunity based on their own collective mindset on the matter. In other words it's simply easier to let sleeping dogs lie and perhaps wait for the next game to get things right assuming we all live that long.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'm quite confused, about that conversation. I don't know what you're talking about. ????
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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TBH it's probably better that way. If someone else wants to explain this that's their problem, not mine. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
It's not worth bringing up yet again.
Okay! I see, no problem then :)
I should watch some Anime, so... I was wondering... If it's possible, in future updates, to change the UI to something cute, or just different than the standard. That would be interesting for a... Couple of instances.
And of course it would be client side. Or the UI could contain presets with special themes.
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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Leave it to Lothic to admonish the community for not praising him more. Is there anything else you'd like us to do more often?
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
I take the blame for being a stinker and obliquely raising the subject.
I tried to resist and failed.
While I agree that real-world measurements being involved in the character creator would be unnecessarily problematic, I like the idea of having some sort of 'baseline' for basic citizens. As I understand it, you can set your character into various (fully animated) backgrounds already, so it'd be neat if one or more of those backgrounds happened to have regular citizens walking around, maybe up to and past your character, giving you a good idea of how your character looks in comparison.
~ DariusWolfe
Errant, TNT, Vibrant and Fluxion on Liberty
Leave it to Planet10 to selectively edit one of my quotes to make me look (more?) like an egotistical monster. ;)
Apparently somebody's irony/joke sensor is broken today (much as it was during the thread in question but I digress...). As Atama graciously admitted I didn't re-raise this colorful subject myself although I continue to find it humorous how often [b][i]other[/i][/b] people keep trying to resurrect it despite me.
Anyway as I've implied I have actually gone out of my way to NOT talk about it myself for quite a while now so I'm willing to accept Atama's one cookie in lieu of any other "praise" you might otherwise be dying to give me about keeping the peace vis-à-vis remaining quiet about this topic. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
We already know the Devs have acknowledged that having some kind of ability to "test" outfits (perhaps by allowing us to run around in a small "test environment" while inside the costume creator) is something they are interested in providing.
Regardless of that perhaps every time we are presented with a brand new costume slot they could preset all of the sliders to values that would effectively generate an "average" man or woman. These average/default settings could represent the "baseline for basic citizens" you're talking about. That might be a workable compromise for what you're asking for.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
It may be useful to have a Police line-up background. Perhaps with 'big', 'ordinary', and 'small' silhouettes for comparison. Perhaps the numerical output is not in 'units', but in 'Percent'. IF they were in 'percent', then enlarging and shrinking would just be about changing a multiplier, or changing the range. Changing the 'model' would apply alterations to the entire population at once!
Be Well!
Fireheart
Oh yes this. Or police mugshot, holding a plaque that will show their name.
Make it an option for a villain/antihero creation.
MWM has been talking about mod-support, and the UI being one of the things we would be able to change. Though not sure if they mean only the "world overlay" UI (the elements we can see/use while character being loaded into the world) or everything including the initial character creator.
Some kind of height reference is needed, it's a goal. Not an especially difficult goal in and of itself but it has a lot of competition :)
[center]--------------------------[/center]
[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
Banana.
They've talked about how the initial mission the tutorial will help you establish who and what your character will be. In that mission you are supposed to be talking to a reporter or officer about what happened and through it you describe your character, why not take that individual your speaking to, presumably a normal citizen and drop them into the creator standing next to your character. Maybe dim or blur them a little bit to maintain focus on the character. I do agree with converting the arbitrary 0-100 with real world dimensions of some kind. It makes sense but I can see where that could be very difficult when you are talking about mass or physical tone.
Just a thought.
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To be clear I think it'd be great to have the game's body slider scales match up to "real world" measurement systems. I just don't see how that can be easily accomplished without them resorting to what amounts to arbitrary "eyeball" references that ultimately wouldn't be [i]better[/i] than a 1 to 100 scale, just different.
Besides the point I raised about "imperial vs. metric" would mean that they would realistically have to deal with both real world scales to be fair. The tick marks between virtual inches would have to be a different size than the tick marks between virtual centimeters. For these reasons sticking to a single, simple generic 1 to 100 scale would be the easiest way to implement this from a Dev point of view and frankly at this point I wouldn't want them to delay the release of the character creator just for something relatively unimportant like this.
Remember everyone will just end up tinkering with their characters until they look good in the game regardless - it's not really going to matter if your character's height is 5'11" based on what the game thinks is the equivalent to 5'11" or if you just set your height slider to tick mark number 87.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Actually, you have a series of choices to make throughout the tutorial that defines what type of character you are. Are you: Lawful/Unlawful? Are you Honourable/Dishonourable? Are you Overly Violent or use minimal force?
The Kickstarter info is here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/629385
But I want "Uses the right amount of force." :)
Yeah, where does 'preserves bodies but destroys minds' fit on any of these scales?
Be Well!
Fireheart
I'd call destroying one's mind pretty violent, personally ;)
Would you rather have broken bones or PTSD?
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I thought it was a button to put back the value to the default value for this element only ^^ Do you something like that ? Or maybe all the value will be at 50% by default ?
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In the long run it would likely be far more useful for there to be a "lock toggle" as JWBullfrog describes than there would be for a "default reset" button.
Like you said if the slider scales really are going to be 1 to 100 (or 0 to 99) then it'll likely be easy enough for the Devs to establish all the sliders to be defaulted to say 50. That way you can always slide a slider back to 50 if you want the "default" value.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Are you suggesting that they use an NPC as a height reference? How will that help if we don't know how high that specific NPC is, especially considering that I'm sure there won't be a single fixed height for NPCs.
Personally I think a height chart would be a much better solution since I'm sure there are more sliders that will affect your final height, like separate leg and torso length. Now if you mean adding a silhouette of a person that represent the average citizen in addition to a height chart then I would fully support it.
I'd agree that having some kind of external reference to height would be better than trying to make the slider scales "equate" to real world measurements.
As you correctly pointed out our character's overall height won't be dependent on just a single simple "height slider". All the lengths of the individual body parts (legs, torso, head, etc.) as well as clothing will factor into that result and again I don't want the game to waste effort trying to calculate a real world measurement based on all those virtual/arbitrary factors.
Let the sliders themselves stick to a simple arbitrary scale (e.g. 1 to 100) and then if you're actually concerned with whether the results of that equates to a virtual 5'11" or 180cm then you can stand yourself up against a "mugshot scale" that's printed on a wall and adjust your sliders to match that to your heart's content.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
So Foradain raised an interesting question a few days ago that'd I'd still be interested in getting a Dev/GM answer to. Unlike most questions we'd probably like to ask the Devs that they can't easily answer I really do think this one is a pretty simple "yes or no" style question that ought to be something that's implemented in the latest test build of the character creator by now either way. In other words if a Dev/GM can't answer this question at this point then there's some serious problems going on with MWM in general.
Basically in a nutshell can players set which body model (currently Male or Female) we want to use for each costume slot? Again [url=https://cityoftitans.com/comment/166320#comment-166320]as I pointed out earlier in this thread[/url] this became a selectable option in CoH if you had the CoH SuperScience Booster pack and would seem to be a relatively trivial feature for a new game like CoT to include as a basic default option.
Perhaps CoT would make this capability something you could "unlock" in their cash store and that would be fine as well. Either way I (and obviously at least Foradain) would like to know if MWM has accounted for the idea and plan to give us a way to choose body models during costume creation.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
There is an answer to this and it is: Maybe.
Not being coy, it's just a bit more complicated than it sounds and we can put the time to better use right now. Down the road, who knows?
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
So the actual answer is "No" but like millions of other things you might add it after launch. See, it's not -that- complicated. ;)
You realize you could probably answer 98% of the questions people throw at you with the direct boiler-plate answer I just translated for you from your non-committal Devspeak. It's not a question of being coy; just be honest about it.
Remember this particular issue is not just about switching between the Male or Female model - as I pointed out earlier if you ever manage to offer other models (say a centaur or a guy with 4 arms) then this'll be the exact method to choose those things so it might actually be easier if you set up your costume creation GUIs to account for this sort of thing now instead of later.
Thanks for responding at any rate.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
A centaur is not and never will be on the table. Don't ask, don't dream, don't wonder - it is never happening. It's not a tech limitation, it's just never ever going to make any sense to put in the work to make it viable. We'd need to make a new animation just for it for absolutely everything, and quite a few costume pieces. It would be a ridiculous move on our part even if we were fully funded. Just ain't happening people. Dream other dreams.
I'm pretty sure 4 arms is in the same category. Technically less work, still highly impractical, unless people are willing to accept clipping so bad as to be almost transcendent.
[center]--------------------------[/center]
[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
Please I just want roller skate travel powers.
*puts toy back in the box*
*pouts*
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
So do I ! I would like to make my Dazzler ^^
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[color=red]PR - Europe[/color]
Dude, for the sake of my character concept, I'd accept four arms that are constantly flipping me off.
If we can’t have four arms I hope we can still have forearms.
The CoH Devs used to respond with the same kind of shit when talking about wings and power customization. Take a chill pill and get over yourself with this Debby-Downer attitude. *sigh*
It's not about whether or not we will ever have a "centaur" or a "four armed dude" body model specifically for CoT. The point is whether or not you would ever produce ANY other body model type AT ALL, EVER. Check back with some of your other fellow Devs sometime who have been saying over the years that they would at least entertain the idea of creating new body models if time and resources permit.
Sure it may still never happen but at least none of your other fellow cohorts have such a dismissive, condescending attitude.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The only thing I like about DCUO are the themed updates.
Maybe it would be possible, plot-wise and money-wise, if you declare those models as shop items (or unlockable by playing one character to max) and use the updates' stories for endgame things.
That would give you a possible income while giving people their wanted models. And I bet some of the devs like the idea to play with alternative models, like these.
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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Look I get that "implementing a centaur body model" would probably rate being placed 1,000th on a list of 1,000 things that need to be done for CoT first. I get that - I was literally just using that as a "hypothetical extreme example". I personally don't give a rat's ass about playing a centaur in CoT but I'll bet if you asked enough of our potential players out there there would be a few who'd like that option. For what it's worth I do know that a "four-armed body model" has in fact been suggested several times in this forum so these hypothetical examples are not completely baseless.
Regardless the last thing we need is a Dev flipping out on us ranting about things "that'll never-ever happen so get over it". Sure 99% of the stupid stuff we future-players suggest here will either A) never happen or B) won't happen for years in CoT but at this point it's basically our job to throw all sorts of silly crap against the wall to see what sticks.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I know, that's not what my intention was. I just wanted to give them a possibility to use those new models as a possible income.
And I was one of those wanting a 4-armed character, as I wanted to create my original character like that. (Original means, just for this game, no ideas from anywhere else.)
I understand you, but at the moment they all are stressed, maybe it's just the stress and maybe some frustration. (As programming can be that, and I think you know that (assuming from your past posts on the forum))
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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The only person with a condescending attitude is you, Lothic. Devs apparently skip around a message and communication is described as awful, devs give a straight up answer and they’re described as having an “attitude”...
A nice range of body models would appreciated though, maybe not as complex as a centaur body model. ????♂️
Oooo, heavy
We expect wings and tails to be a thing, and we can make your arms and legs and head look fairly different as well. The key is when the changes would require a different *function*. We can give you furry legs and hooves (if you decide to try to put shoes on it, well, on your head be it), but if we make your knees hinge backwards now you are using a different skeleton and none of the animations will work for you anymore, and you may as well be a centaur. We can make your arms bulkier or thinner with a carapace, but if we give it a second joint, same problem. Even if the cost benefit managed to justify it (dubious), the sheer amount of other game improvements we could have made instead will outweigh it. By a lot.
Different body model type could mean different things in different conversations. Centaur class body model type is definitely not happening, I've heard the Devs of relevant skill sets explain it internally often enough.
Getting back to the original question, it's quite likely the costume slot gender thing can be done, we're just not ready to swear by it yet.
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[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
There's a clear difference between a Dev speaking to us about CoT in a "straight up" honest manner and a Dev simply being overtly dickish about it where "dickishness" is totally uncalled for.
Shadow Elusive COULD have responded with something amounting to the following:
That statement was clear, to the point and most of all respectful.
Instead we got phrases like:
[list]
[*]"Don't ask, don't dream, don't wonder"
[*]"would never make any sense to work on it"
[*]"would be a ridiculous move on our part"
[*]"Dream other dreams"
[*]"highly impractical"
[/list]
And so on. Now ironically enough all of that might actually be true/fair from Shadow Elusive's point of view. But I really can't imagine a WORSE way he could have undiplomatically framed all of that to his future playerbase.
As a future player I have the luxury of being a bit of a "pain in the ass" on this forum because I am not personally beholden to anyone here. If you don't like what I have to say then don't read it. On the other hand the Devs supposedly speaking for MWM (e.g. Shadow Elusive) really do need to watch their collective tongues because while I'm used to getting direct flak from the Devs there are other people who might not be aware of what's going on who might get a very bad instant impression of what the Devs of this game can be like. That's the kind of negative PR that MWM can't really afford.
Look I get Shadow Elusive could be having a bad day or whatever. I also get that I have personally pissed Shadow Elusive off in the past over other unrelated topics. I'm just saying he needs to learn when "being snippy" with me is justified or not. I'll take the blame when I push his buttons on purpose - I just don't think I deserved it this time around. *shrugs*
Well according to Shadow Elusive I would conclude that implementing any body model besides the Male and Female ones would be utterly impossible forever and you and I are collectively stupid for even suggesting such a thing. Have a nice day...
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Again you're focusing on the trees and not the forest. I've already said the "centaur" idea was just a hypothetical example for ANY body model other than the plain Male or Female human one. For the record there have been many suggestions for many OTHER types of body models over the years here (i.e. man top/snake bottom guy, 4-armed guy, werewolf, etc.). Obviously some of those would be easier to implement than others.
So again the simple definitive answer is "No, there's nothing like that in the latest build."
It's obvious if something is not currently implemented there's always a chance it might be in the future. But the simple "yes or no" question we asked was "Can you switch body models in the CURRENT costume creator?" By your answer that "it CAN be done" means by simple logic that it's not currently a feature in the game right now. Again simple answer for a simple question.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I just took it as trying to set expectations. If someone says, “No we won’t be doing a centaur body,” then maybe you can still have something else radical like a conjoined twin, or mermaid, or naga (bottom half of the body is a snake). Shadow Elusive’s response tells me that not only is a centaur not something they can or will do, but it’s far above what they can do. So I can set my expectations much lower in terms of body shape flexibility.
I won’t even ask if I can transform into a semi, I assume that dream is dead. :(
Thanks for the info, JWBullfrog and Shadow. It's good to know what's perhaps possible in the future and what is not.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Again I don't mind being told by a Dev that X, Y or Z is not going to happen. It's just that Shadow Elusive as a Dev is (unfortunately for him perhaps) stuck in a position where he has to at least pretend to be nice to us about it.
Again I'll take all the flak I (normally?) deserve from a Dev here but in looking at the posts on this thread I think Shadow takes the cake for escalating things to a silly degree this time around.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
+1.
I'll +1 this as well... as long as the Rednames remain clear and consistent without taking gleeful joy in squashing our precious little snowflake dreams. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Lothic you are too precious for this world! :D
Lothic, are you ever going to look at how you comport yourself here (especially when you are trying to "call out" the devs)?
You consistently antagonize people when you do not get your way or when people disagree with whatever your stance is on a topic. Were there other devs considering it in years past? Probably. Did they decide to not do it after investigating it? Maybe. Do you know that there is some silent majority of repressed devs that are getting their hopes and dreams crushed by Shadow Elusive? Probably not, but if you do, you aren't using the most potent fuel to win the argument.
The centaur & four-armed models were just off the top of your head examples of alternate body models, I get it. If there are other specific body models that you think would make the game play experience more compelling, I would like to hear your ideas and why you think it should be included. The CoT project needs to be bounded in some manner, the scope cannot be too wide open.
I understand the CoH-wings situation (being told no, then later on implementing it). There was a lot of noise from the player base and things changed. There would be some similar resource problems around bones & joints for movement purposes, but there would be an added level of complexity around powers and animations too. For a multi-limbed body, which appendages would be dominant? Would they all be equally dominant? How would that impact props? How would it impact animations that involve two appendages at once (aka, holding/firing a rifle)? Would the extra appendages just be cosmetic and not actually animate (for the purposes of firing powers or emotes)? There are more questions along these lines that would have to be addressed, so I am ok with MWM saying no to that request. If another more compelling example is brought up, I'd be willing to consider it (and advocate for it if I also thought it made sense).
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
I literally mentioned a few posts ago that if you don't like what I have to say here you don't have to read it. It's really just that simple. *shrugs*
Many people (none of them me) have suggested many different alternate body models for CoT over the years based on all sorts of reasons/concepts. Just visit the various "suggestion threads" and you'll find dozens of ideas. At the very least you can acknowledge that most of the time I don't "consistently antagonize people" just for my own pleasures or personal pet desires for this game - that'd be selfish and rude on my part.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Even as a big pusher for 4-armed body type, I bet you could place a lot of improvements with similar workload and I'd take those instead.
Opportunity cost, you cruel mistress!!
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[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Of course once again according to Shadow Elusive they will never consider something like a 4-armed body model even [b]AFTER[/b] they have nothing better left to do because as we now know it would be a ridiculous thing for them to bother with and random childlike dreams must be crushed and all that. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
If the animators have already determined the workload, and have said “not gonna happen”, harping on Shadow Elusive for being the messenger is unfair at best.
He is basically, in this instance, takingnon the role of a CM. And pooing on a CM, who is typically a forum poster’s primary communicator between the appropriate devs and the posters, is hardly conducive for continuing open dialogue.
Believe me, he isn’t cacKlimt with glee over “crushing anyone’s dreams”. That is a very h fair assessment of the man and how he feels about us not providing someone’s desired feature.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I'm not harping on Shadow Elusive for being "the messenger" in this case. I'm harping on him for the pedantically shitty way he delivered the message. I would have assumed that was obvious from my responses on this matter.
P.S. I actually couldn't care less about getting alternate body models for MYSELF any time soon. The only reason the question even came up here was because I tacked it on as a "side benefit" of being able to select which body model you wanted to use for each costume slot. Who here ever implied any potential new body model MUST HAPPEN AT LAUNCH anyway? I'm simply passing along "the message" that many people find this issue important based on all the suggestions I have read on this forum for various body type ideas over the years.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Still wanna see if we can do doc oc style arms, which are almost Props as opposed to new skeletons.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
You mean like Fire Beetle’s pack from a few updates ago?
Granted, those appendages don’t animate but the skeletal structure is there.
One of the items we will end up needing to make is the Mutton Pack which uses a similar striucture as well.
Grabted. You’re just passing along the message for other people. However, as much as myself and other devs would love alternate body models, if the animators have determined the amount to work required and said it is a bridge too far, than for the foreseeable future (not just for launch but years post), it isn’t feesible.
Even if, say a pack of different skeletal models were to be made available on the Unreal Marketplace, we count use them at all for player models. That is how customized our costume system is. We literally had to make a custom skeletal mesh to do what we wanted for the game.
Now can we know what will happen with certainty 5 years from now? Not with certainty on all fronts. But the workload to create a new custom player model with animations and costume pieces is a major, major undertaking. One that isn’t remotely being planned for and we have many plans for the future.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
"There's not enough communication!"
Devs communicate.
"That's not the answer I wanted, you're a meany face!"
Devs justified if they go back to not communicating.
[color=red]PR Team, Forum Moderator, Live Response Team[/color]
This post delivers.
Small questions, if I wanted to add 2 arms to a body as props, would that be possible?
And I once saw we could have prothestic arms, legs, etc is that true?
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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False. This conversation is not what the debate on communication was about. At all.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Possible, as long as they were immobile, or a proliferate mesh, in which case they'd follow the exact same movements as the primary arms, as they wouldn't be separate.
This is confirmed, shown to us, and included in Anthem's backstory. We will have working cybernetics in the game.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
Frankly if the Devs are going to be pissy about the WAY they communicate I'd probably rather they be silent on this forum. Can you guys (warlocc and Cobalt Azurean) honestly sit there and tell me you felt the way Shadow Elusive responded in [url=https://cityoftitans.com/comment/166492#comment-166492]this post[/url] was appropriate in any way or actually told us anything new?
You do realize the Devs have ALREADY TOLD us in much more civil terms than this that alternate body models were not likely to happen for launch time. Effectively Shadow Elusive told us nothing new here and what he did bother to say was simply a rant because as a Dev he assumed he could get away with it.
I'll reiterate one more time the conversation here was about being able to select the type of body model we want to use for each costume slot. The fact that Shadow Elusive decided to rant about MWM not being able to implement specific body models really had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the discussion so in terms of your "That's not the answer I wanted" point I grant you that because it really had nothing to do with the topic at hand. A Dev ranting with a purpose is one thing; a Dev ranting at the WRONG thing is semi-pathetic.
At least Dark Cleric seems to understand what's going on here.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
My name caught my eye, and so I'm going to make this rare exception and reply directly to you.
Don't bring me into this. I barely read your ad nauseam posts as it is. As for Shadow Elusive, I don't see why he can't post in the same tone that you've used in the past. It only seems fair.
And by all means, feel free to repeat yet again that if I don't like your posts, don't read them, which is certainly what I'll continue to do.
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