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Minorities have been in Battlefield games for years. Women have been in other games for years. Sometimes these "racists and misogynists" played as them. Never an issue.
But clearly that's the only rational way to explain why they might object to radically changing history to appease people that never were going to buy the game anyway, yeah.
[color=red]PR Team, Forum Moderator, Live Response Team[/color]
The multiplayer mode is alt history.
Always.
So is most single player stuff.
So they don't complain about the weapons or vehicles used, or anything else but do ONLY complain about women being in it when WOMEN PARTICIPATED IN WW2.
They're changing history by putting women in a time and place that had women in it!
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Women weren't at D-Day!
Yeah, well neither were rocket launchers or an emblem of dick-butt.
But the women!
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Yet you still can’t explain why no similar backlash occurred when women were added to other games in settings not based on history. Your entire premise is based on flawed logic and closed mindedness, but I’ve already explained that ad nauseam.
Don Quixote really is the best analogy. You’re so lost in your heroic delusions of grandeur that no matter how much someone explains the purpose and functioning of the windmill to you, you’ll continue to see marauding giants. It would be funny if it wasn’t so depressing. And it would be far more depressing if most people were buying into the same delusions, which thankfully fewer and fewer appear to be.
Because there's no convenient thing for them to hide their hate behind.
Someone uneducated can easily make the claim that women didn't play a role in WW2 as we are rarely told of their exploits and most media around WW2 is very male centric. And if later proven false they can fall back on ignorance as a defense.
With something like Halo Reach it's a setting that the devs can do whatever they want with as it's completely made up and any complaints against the additions of such things would easily fall flat. Yet, apparently, people did complain about female spartans in that thinking they had smaller hitboxes.
They don't hate women, they just want historical accuracy.
They don't hate women, they just think that the female model has a statistical advantage.
Very easy to hide your true intentions behind a flimsy reason, and fall back on the claim of ignorance if proven untrue.
Kingdom Come Deliverance has no people of color because it's allegedly attempting to be historically accurate. Even though at that time period and in that place people of color made up about 5% of the population. On top of that the game has a bunch of other historical innacuracies, but strangely to the developer those other inaccuracies are fine.
A game like Mass Effect that had women in it from the begining don't get flack for it because it's there from the start. But they did get some flack from fans by including a homesexual male romance option in the third game. Because dude-bros didn't want to run the risk of making their Shepherd gay.
Hey look at that another "controversy" involving the additon of a minority or diverse element in a video game. Shocking. Seems like everywhere you look straight white men are complaining about the addition of non-white, non-straight, non-male characters to things. Star Wars, Rey who stated she's flown before couldn't have possibly flown the millennium falcon, but Luke, the farm boy, can totally take part in an attack on the most heavily defended battlestation the galaxy has ever seen.
I... I wonder what the difference between those two are... Hmmmmmmmmm.
Ubisoft couldn't put women in Assassins Creed Unity claiming it was too difficult, despite other animators and people who have worked on the series saying otherwise. Even though historically one of the most notable Assassins at that time and in that place was a woman. Where was the historical accuracy crowd then? Hm?
Assassin's Creed Odyssey they intentionally kept the female player character out of a lot of promotional materials specifically to attempt to avoid any sort of controversy.
Last of Us 2 trailer showcased a lesbian kiss, faced backlash.
Red Dead 2 videos of Gamers gleefully beating up and killing a Feminist in the game.
Real strange that they'll decry the adition of minorities and women but then champion the cause of "Historical accuracy" when it comes to excluding those people. Almost as if they're attempting to rewrite said history to be more male and more white.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Don, where the hell are you getting this stuff? Are you counting one or two forum posts or blogs as controversy?
I played Reach quite a bit and never heard any complaints about female hit box size differences. Even googling now, all I find is a handful of people asking if they do and if therefore they should have a female avatar, and a few saying that if a discrepancy exists, Bungie should normalize it, not remove females as an option. Hell, some even said that they should have a smaller hit box so they could get an advantage by playing as women
Ewww, scary misogyny, Gamers looking for a slight advantage in PVP scenarios by being women characters. I geuss to you that must be culturally appropriating from trans-people, huh? :P Even then, we’re talking about a handful of forum posts from years ago. You’ve gone daft if you think that constitutes a controversy. I don’t think it even constitutes a complaint.
As for Kingdom Come, never played the game, only faintly heard about it here and there. In doing the minimum of research, I found this on Wikipedia. Not exactly the source I’d use if I was writing something peer-reviewed, but good enough for this.
“European media responded to some aspects of the criticism. A commentator at the Czech newspaper Lidové noviny called the accusations "out of place" and claimed that most Europeans would respond that there were very few, if any, black people in early 15th-century central Bohemia.[33] To evaluate if non-white people lived in 15th-century Bohemia, the German magazine M! Games asked the Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz. According to them, there were at most Turkic peoples, like Cumans (who appear in the game as enemies), but otherwise the presence of non-whites is "questionable".[34]”
Not that it matters, because I could literally invent a time machine, crowd fund its construction, shove you in it, take us back to 15th century Bohemia and take a 3 year tour of the countryside with you, and even if we never saw someone of African descent the entire time, you’d still come back and complain that historical accuracy wasn’t a good enough reason because they have the wrong style of buckle for the time on an NPC’s shoe somewhere midway through the story. Isn’t that right, Mr. Quixote?
And thank you for disproving your point by admitting no one cared about a female Shepherd option, ever. The fact that it was there from the start doesn’t negate that, it enforces it. If Gamers are such misogynists, ME1 would have flopped.
As for the gay romance option, I remember a handful of people making stupid jokes in comment sections and forums, and then a bunch of “progressive” outlets making click-bait articles poo-pooing them. Never saw any serious calls by any noticeable portion of the community to have it removed. That’s not a controversy, it’s a failed attempt by the media to create a controversy.
ME3’s shitty state in general, and it’s ending in particular, were a controversy.
You clearly have no grasp of why so much of the fan base dislikes Rey if your go-to complaint is her flying the Falcon.
Oh, sorry Don. I forgot, you actually know the reason better than all of us. It’s misogyny, of course. Apologies Mr. Quixote.
And yet the nerdy sci-fi fan base had no problem with the female lead in the Aliens Trilogy that was, what, 30+ years before Star Wars 7?
Honestly can’t speak to the Unity thing. Last game I played was Black Flag and I think I remember female characters in the multiplayer, what little I played of it, and no complaints(checked, there were female characters). And, not being involved in making games or doing 3-D animation, I can’t say how much more effort it would be. But again, doing 30 seconds of research, it certainly seems like it would be a significant undertaking, at least according to C-Net.
https://www.cnet.com/news/assassins-creed-unity-female-characters-take-a-lot-more-work/
So congratulations on maintaining your 100% record of either making up or completely misrepresenting issues to support your delusions. Just keep poking those windmills, I’m sure one will be a giant in disguise.
Ubisoft honestly did the right thing with Odyssey, if your description of that is accurate. They added women as an option but didn’t showcase it like it was some grand achievement or major accomplishment for equal rights. Anywhere that having a female character option makes sense and development resources permit, it should be available. But when you make that a heavily touted feature, what it advertises is that the only interesting thing your game has is pandering to the “progressive” crowd. If EA had marketed BFV as a return to WWII and not played up the political virtue signaling, and maybe avoided using a character who looks more like she belongs in Cyberpunk 2077 than WWII front and center in their trailer, there would have been next to no reaction. It would be a ME3 gay romance non-troversy level of reaction. A few people in a couple forums would have questioned the historical accuracy, maybe one or two YouTube videos cracking jokes, and then nothing.
Same goes for the TLOU2 kiss. It was little more than a few jokes and the media trying to blow it up into something it never was. At most I heard complaints about pandering because, again, it was clear that this was the moment they choose to showcase because it showed how “progressive” they are. And yet I heard next to nothing about the kiss in the DLC to the original, because it wasn’t played up as some big important moment in promotional materials, it just happened naturally in the story. Though again, I remember the press making a couple attempts to make something out of it.
And Red Dead 2, the fact you’d even bring this up is hilarious. No one is asking for the character to be removed or altered, except maybe a few feminists saying she should have some special protection no other NPC does. The only reason that you tuber makes video like that is because the reactions of the easily offended are amazing to behold. He also makes videos where he blows up KKK rallies with dynamite and crashes funerals to kill mourners in game, or whatever funny outlandish thing he can come up with. But none of that bothers you, does it? It doesn’t bother me either, but then I have a sense of humor.
I just searched up (insert game) controversy and these things came up. Other than that it's stuff I remember circling around the net around the time the games were announced or released.
I don't know much about Kingdom Come Deliverance either, only that apparently it's apparently already very historically inaccurate, regardless of people of color (not just any of african descent I don't know why you felt the need to specify there, I never did). And that the lead developer (I think, or at least one of the vocal devs for it) is a rascist piece of shit that has values that correlate to Gamergate. You know Gamergate right? That group of Gamers who harassed a bunch of women and minorities?
And one example of a new IP and an RPG wherein folks didn't flip their collective shit over a woman being in it doesn't disprove anything. Different Genres of games have differing Demographics. RPGs, for example tend to appeal to female gamers more than say an FPS or Sports game does.
Same as Alien and it's sequels, horror and thriller movies often have female protagonists and as far as I can tell don't really lean heavily to one gender. Alien is much more a thriller movie than a scifi movie.
On the unity thing, seeing as we are talking on a forum for a game in which we can have male and female characters all of which will likely share the same animations I'm going to go ahead and say that the aditional workload idea is a complete fabrication. As well an ex ubispft employee stated
"In my educated opinion, I would estimate this to be a day or two's work. Not a replacement of 8,000 animations," Cooper said on Twitter. "Man, if I had a dollar for every time someone at Ubisoft tried to bullsh** me on animation tech," he added.
To stress his point further, Cooper said the female main character of the PlayStation Vita game Assassin's Creed III: Liberation, Aveline de Grandpre, "shares more of Connor Kenway's animations than Edward Kenway does."
So yeah, Ubisoft are a bunch of liars in that regard. And they also claimed they couldn't because of the story, but they're the ones who decided tonmake the story without a female role in it in the first place.
But that's more of the publisher being shitty than the Gamers themselves.
Ah yes, instead of showing that in Odyssy you could play as a woman they *checks notes* decided to not show her as to not draw any ire from Gamers. Who you say are *checks notes* not misogynist. Cool move there. They could have shown both equally which wouldnt be them "showcasing it like it was some grand achievement or major accomplishment for equal rights" it would instead be them just showcasing a feature of the game which again they decided not to do because *checks notes* they were afraid Gamers would be shitty about it. I suppose that's completely unfounded.
The character from Battlefield V has a prosthetic arm that's design is accurate to the time.
[img]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8lyp8s/the_prosthetic_arm_from_the_battlefield_v_trailer/#ampf=undefined[/img]
But sure. Cyberpunk.
When can a game have women in it and/or minorities without it being "pandering" cause as far as I can tell any time a company puts something like that in their game or movie it's pandering. Isn't having men or straight couples also pandering? At this point ot shouldn't even be "progressive" it should just be "ressive" but unfortunately a bunch of "regressives" keep making big deals about putting women or minorities in things.
And no, no one is asking for her to be removed. They're using her to make videos and misogynistic comments, so why would they want their fantasy of killing a woman and a feminist taken away? I don't know who this "He" you speak of even is. Why is killing her funny? She's just like any other NPC. To quote some right winger when asked how to get people to be "red pilled" "You keep making the joke until it really lands." Haha, it's funny to kill a feminist, haha feminism sucks, haha feminism is annoying, ad nauseam.
As for Rey... She did nothing Luke didn't do. Anything people like that Luke did they hate Rey for. Flying the falcon is one of those things. As is her (trained to fight as showcased early in the movie) fighting (an injured) Kylo Ren (who wasn't trying to kill her but to get her to join him "You need training, I can teach you"). Luke made up a whole new technique (moving objects with the force) without knowing the force could do that vs Rey (after being in Kylo Ren's head) used the Jedi Mind trick (manipulating the minds of others is something she definitely knew the force could do) after a fashion.
But the star wars stuff is a discussion for another day.
TLDR; Capital G Gamers are trash.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Back on the topic of Battlefield V. We have
A Norwegian resistance fighter lady (historically plausable)
With a (historically accurate) prosthetic arm
Women on the battlefield (historically plausable)
So. Any who claim that it's historically inaccurate are uneducated on the subject at best misogynist at worst.
The inclusion of any or all of these is no more historically inaccurate than playing Sgt. Buck Hammer a US soldier a master of all weapons, an ace pilot, a tank operator, a demolitions expert, and a master of hand to hand combat, air dropped in to WW2 who ends up surviving the whole way through with hundreds of confirmed kills, and who was instrumental to taking down the Nazis almost single handedly. Which would encompass about 99% of all WW2 games.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Well at least you’re willing to admit you’re talking about stuff you literally know nothing about, Don, but you keep doing it, so that’s not much of an improvement.
So, despite not playing the game or knowing much about it, you know that it’s full of historical inaccuracies. And you know the lead developer was some horrible racist, too. How do you know this? Probably the same “progressive” outlets that told you about how bad Gamergate was. I think we found the problem, and it’s that when it comes to your information sources, you’re on a steady diet of biased bullshit.
Oh, and I mentioned Africans because 1: the quote I posted specifically talked about black people, along with every article I found complaining about the issue in 2 minutes of googling talking about black people specifically, and 2: people of Turkic descent are present in the game, so unless you know nothing of what you’re talking about, you can’t just be complaining about the complete absence of anyone non-white. Oh wait, you don’t know anything about any of the issues you’re talking about, so of course that’s what you’re complaining about.
Honestly most of this doesn’t deserve a direct mention in response. You can’t accept that the vast majority of examples where women have been in or were added in to a game series, no one cared or got upset, because that doesn’t mesh with this boogey man you’ve built up of Gamers in your head. So you find some excuse to ignore 99% of games and focus on the few where there was some controversy, and even in those cases, it’s never what you make it out to be. Either you completely misrepresent what actually happened, or you try to present a handful of sarcastic comments and jokes as if it was some major backlash or hate campaign. All to fuel your windmill toppling fetish. You know, someday you’re going to get a bill for damages from all those millers, and I do not envy you on that day.
But I’m probably going to end up responding to most of it anyway. Because apparently I’m a masochist with a low tolerance for ignorant bullshit.
Neither of us still know anywhere near enough about animating to comment on Unity, but the same guy whose tweets you mention was brought up in the article I linked. They went on to explain how he was wrong. Another 2 minutes on google finds that he was with Naughty Dog at the time, and later got into some minor beef with Ubi Soft over some art assets he “borrowed” from them when he left. So your entire basis for this is a likely disgruntled ex-employee bitching about his former boss. So reliable, so unbiased.
And in Odyssey, I suppose my error was in assuming you presented the situation accurately. It took me no time at all to find examples of promotional art featuring the female character and articles from various outlets talking about her before the game came out. The only thing I could find about them “hiding” her was a single article from a site I’d never heard of with no quote from the developer. Again, 2 minutes on google, so maybe it’s out there, but unless someone at Ubi Soft ever said something like that, Don, it’s nothing but projection so you can continue the never ending quest to slay horrible dragon, Gamer.
Except, because Ubi Soft didn’t try to make the inclusion of a female character into some monumental deed of heroism on their part, gamer’s didn’t throw some tantrum like you wanted them to. They just either played the game or didn’t depending on their individual tastes in games.
Which brings us to pandering.
You know what? No, it’s not even worth going any further on that, because you’re just being entirely dishonest in this paragraph. You know exactly what the difference between having women or minorities in a game and pandering is, because I described it specifically in the previous post.
Dear God, you’re still harping on RDR2? Though it is nice that again you’re willing to admit you don’t know about the very subject you’re so upset about. The “he” in question is a YouTuber named Shirrako, who created the initial video that started the whole kerfuffle. And around the same time he was releasing his series of annoying feminist videos, he was also releasing videos of him blowing up KKK meetings and torturing KKK members via various creative methods, along with highlighting various other funny encounters and NPCs in the game. He briefly had his channel taken down, and his first upload upon getting reinstated was “Deporting a Mexican in RDR2.” Demonstrating, once again, that in game and IRL, he’s a master at getting funny reactions out of NPCs.
I love how you use right-winger as if it’s some kind of pejorative. It’s cute.
Surprise, surprise, again talking about a subject you clearly don’t know about. I could go on and on about how much of what you said about Luke and Rey is wrong, but when you think Luke ever flew the Falcon, it’s just a waste of time even going any further. He rode in the falcon, and one time he manned a turret, during which he managed a whole 2 kills over a several minute battle. Meanwhile, Rey, the child of nobodies, kills 3 TIEs with a single shot as she enters the fight at the end of TLJ. This being at most a week after she learned she had any ability with the Force because they were too stupid to put a reasonable time skip between the movies to allow for her to learn at a believable pace, and Luke, the son of Star Wars Jesus who was a literal virgin birth, with years between movies to conceivably practice what little he’d been taught on his own, which is still more actual education from a force user than Rey had when she started mind controlling people, could barely move his lightsaber across the room to save his own life. No, but she and Luke are just the same, no difference at all. Honestly, I liked her well enough in 7, but they ruined her in 8 with the backstory and having her become a Jedi master level force user in almost no time,though even then, ruining Rey is the least of that movie’s crimes.
And here I am wasting my time again explaining things that you’re just going to block out so you can maintain your fantasies.
Battlefield V replaces actual heroes with a fictional woman for the sake of inclusion, which is an insult to both those heroes and the women who actually did serve in the war.
No one with that prosthetic would have been sent into combat, and they scrapped it from the final game anyway because even EA realized it looked ridiculously out of place on a battlefield.
And the allies wouldn’t have let any women serve as frontline combatants. There may have been a handful of cases where a female medic or pilot got caught in the fighting and had to defend herself, but we’re talking about the vanishingly rare exception to the rule
That plot, adjusted to fit the particular setting, would describe the vast majority of action games. Those games are usually a power fantasy, so of course you’re going to be the baddest mofo on your particular block. That doesn’t excuse the developers from maintaining some level of authenticity to the setting, be it historical or otherwise.
TLDR; individuals who label and denigrate entire groups of people based on inaccurate information, misrepresentations, and outright lies are trash.
Don’t be trash, Don.
The battle of staligrad was an historic battle. If you set the combat scenario in that then you are fighting in a historic battle. They didnt say anything about historically accurate battles, just that the setting was historic. They could put women wearing chicken suits and carrying battle axes and it would be ok as long as they were in the setting of the historical battle. As for multiplayer battles, there is no way to make them accurate, the soviets never said"ok, we can only let 40 of you into battle, there are only 40 germans". they werent big on the whole "fair fight" concept.
Never said Luke flew the falcon. Just that he flew in a battle, X-wing in the death star battle, farm boy can be part of an attack on a space station with multiple enemy combatants. So much for your reading comprehension. She shot some TIE fighters mostly, if memory serves, when the TIEs had little room to maneuver, and even if that wasn't the case... Force user. Luke shot a torpedo into a tiny hole. Ah yes, Luke who knows that the force can sense things and affect the minds of others somehow taught himself to move an object with the force even though he had no way of knowing if this was even possible, training in new hope, moving object in empire. Rey is incredibly gifted with the force as is Kylo Ren. And the anikin being star wars jesus is the dumbest thing lucas ever did.
"No one with that prosthetic would have been sent into combat" unless they sent themselves into combat as some sort of resistance fighter.
Oh, a female soldier on the frontlines would be an exceptionally rare case? Like 100% of heroes in everything are exceptionally rare cases.
Battlefield V probably replaces a bunch of actual men with stand ins also.
"Those games are usually a power fantasy, so of course you’re going to be the baddest mofo on your particular block." Unless you're a woman apparently. Then you don't get a power fantasy.
I was never harping on RDR2. Meerly that some people took a part of that game and made shitty videos where they gleefully attacked a feminist. I don't care who started the videos, that's less important than the content and the comments that followed it.
How is it not pandering to have a game with just a bunch of straight white men in it? A game like that is clearly pandering to straight white men. But it's fine when a game does that, apparently. See pretty much every game ever made and all their scruffy white dudes as the protag, developed to be white male power fantasies and pandering specifically to that audience. Pandering to a majority is still pandering.
As for Ubi, cool. Glad I'm wrong. I don't want the inclusion of a woman or minorities to have controversy. As for the animation thing still doesn't explain how modders and such can easily replace a character model with another. I doubt modders spend "upwards of 8000 hours" to slap a new skin on an existing model. Ubi are likely full of shit. Granted their statement might have been more in line of "if we're going to do that we're going to do it right" but that still doesn't explain why this wasn't a priority for them in the first place.
Gamergate said they were for ethics in gaming journalism... Which is why they spent a lot of their time sending death threats to Anita Sarkeezian who was planning to just make some videos about video games and feminism. And the whole movement was apparently predecated around a bunch of circumstances that never actually happened. Like a review for a game that did not actually exist (the review that is).
Gamergate is a lot like Comicsgate and what Comicsgate did (and is still doing) was throw hate at comic's creators mostly women and minorites then made an overpriced comic that is both badly written and badly drawn and full of sexism, racism, and homophobia, I know this because I have actually read some of it and it's terrible.
Women who play online games tend to be harassed. A lot of them don't like to let it be known they're women because they will get harassed. Granted this is far more of a problem in games like first person shooters than in say, MMORPGs but it still happens.
Gamers will also throw out racial slurs when they get mad. Again, mostly in the multiplayer shooter department.
"In 2012, a study of the Ohio University showed that the same person playing Halo 3 online with a male and a female profile using recorded voice messages received three times more negative comments with the female profile, despite similar game scores. Even welcoming everybody at the beginning of a game could lead to sexist insults against the female profile"
"A study from 2006 showed that 83.4% of gamers had seen the words "gay" or "queer" used as derogatory names, and that 52.7% of gay gamers perceived the gaming community as "somewhat hostile" while 14% perceived it as "very hostile"."
"data from Riot Games lists racism and homophobia at the top. Furthermore, derogatory words for homosexuality are used almost constantly in online gaming."
Yeah, Gamers... Totally not discriminatory, misogynist, or racist.
[url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism_in_video_games[/url]
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Wearing a chicken suit to the battle of Staligrad is fine if the game were like Wolfenstein or some other alternate reality, but not when you're advertising real historic events.
That's what makes me agree with the point the "racists and misogynists" are making. They're right, the game is being falsely, or at least deceptively, advertised.
[color=red]PR Team, Forum Moderator, Live Response Team[/color]
Battlefield 1942 had jet packs. The Battlefield series has never been historically accurate, especially, when the multiplayer is concerned.
And I just found out that Battlefield 1 (the world war 1 one) had a female player character for their story, who was also likely based on a real person, and has multiple other hostorical inaccuracies througout the story mode.
So... Battlefield 1 did the exact same thing as Battlefield V... But they didn't get flack because they didn't advertise that there'd be a woman in it. Where was this crowd who cared about the historical accuracy of the game series then? Seems the only difference between the two games is women are playable in multiplayer and V advertised that fact.
Gee a load of Gamers making a big fuss because a woman was used in advertising? I wonder why that could be.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
“As for Rey... She did nothing Luke didn't do. Anything people like that Luke did they hate Rey for. Flying the falcon is one of those things.”
If that’s not you saying he flew the Falcon, then you need to work on how you structure your sentences. But if you’re saying you misspoke, fair enough.
Rey shot three TIEs with one bolt in the wide open air, not in any confined spaces, as she and Chewie flew into the battle on the salt planes. Then I’m not even sure how many more in the rest of the fight.
Again, bad assumptions, or taking the most favorable assumptions just to fit your way of thinking. The Jedi had been gone for less than 30 years when A New Hope occurred. When Obi-Wan told Luke his father had been a Jedi Knight, Luke didn’t ask what that was. He did ask about the force later when Obi-Wan mentioned it, so it stands to reason Luke had heard of Jedi, but not the force. There’s no reason not to assume Luke had heard stories of what Jedi were capable of, at least in some vague terms, or that Obi-wan and he might have had some additional conversations off-screen between the jump to light speed and when we come into the scene to see them mid-training.
But no, Luke only knew what he had directly seen or been told on camera, and that’s the assumption you’ll insist is the only valid view, because it allows you to call anyone who dislikes Rey for being too powerful with too little reason a misogynist. Because you need a dragon to slay, Don.
At least we can agree a virgin birth in Star Wars was probably Lucas’ worst idea, maybe tied with midichlorians. The only reason I bring it up is that at least Luke being the son of a powerful Jedi gives us some reason for him being a quick learner. Still took him 2+ years to do some minor telekinesis. But Rey, whose background is that she’s literally coming from nothing, doesn’t have an excuse. And yet she still becomes apparently stronger than Luke about a week after learning she even had potential. All they needed was a reasonable time skip to explain her having some time to train on her own a bit, and/or to say she had some force user parent, some unknown Jedi master who escaped the purge, went into hiding, and ended up having a kid. Or she was born in a Kaiber crystal mine and the ambient force energy affected her. It would be a bit silly but at least it would be something. We got nothing. It’s like some bad Seinfeld joke.
Literally all I need to accept her character as shown would be a few years off screen trying to learn the force herself. I can buy the rest. I wanted this to work. I wanted good new Star Wars. Why do you do this to me, Disney? Why!?!?
But then there’d be the rest of the egregiously awful BS in TLJ to get past, even if they hadn’t ruined Rey.
Can we just not talk about Star Wars, anymore? It’s deeply depressing.
Ok, I’ll grant you someone with that prosthetic could have been fighting as a resistance fighter without approval of any actual military chain of command. Not terribly likely, but theoretically possible. Good point, you get one Don. Not that it matters because the whole point was it looks silly in WWII, which is why even EA, who doubled down on the PC BS after the trailer reaction, still removed it from the game.
We’re not the big heroes in multiplayer. We’re not the crazy rare exception like we are in a single player campaign. We’re just one of the grunts, the every man who fights and dies for his side. An exceptional K:D ratio for a top FPS player is, what, 20:1. God knows I’ve never been near that high. Still a far cry from what any single player character achieves. So there’s a difference between a female lead in a story campaign and a female character in multiplayer, and again, I’m not even saying the option should be removed. I’m just saying don’t demonize people because they want a slightly more authentic experience than you and I care about in our WWII shooters.
You’re using “probably”, again, which tells me you’re still talking about stuff you don’t know about, but taking the assumption that lets you call people you don’t like nasty names, again. If they’d based their female led campaign on one of the actual women of the war, or at least invented an entirely fictional set of plausible events around a fictional female resistance fighter, then fine. But they didn’t. I honestly don’t know of another game that takes an actual operation and replaces the people who pulled it off. If you’d like to point one out, I’d be glad to be just as annoyed at it. And again, if they’d just responded to the criticism in a halfway reasonable manor instead of turning it into a virtue signal, there’d be almost none of the backlash.
"Unless you're a woman apparently. Then you don't get a power fantasy.”
Don, you’ve taken too much Balsam of Fierbras. It’s addling your brain, Don, put the elixir down!
Samus Aran, Lara Croft, Bayonetta, Joanna Dark, Jade(BG&E), Juliet Starling, Aloy, or almost any female protagonist or female character creator option from any actiony game. Women can enjoy the same power fantasies as men do. Honestly, I don’t know any male gamers who can’t enjoy a good power fantasy type game when the character is a female. So why do female gamers need a female character to enjoy it? I don’t think they do, but you clearly do.
An all male white cast would be pandering if they made it a major feature in the advertising that “this game only has white men in it! Arn’t we so great for doing that?” Which would be really weird pandering, because, in spite your elixir clouded view of things, Gamers don’t care about the racial or gendered make up of a game’s cast, outside of some edge cases where it breaks with the setting. It would be like trying to pander to cats by wearing a cat fur-suit. You’re probably just going to confuse and freak out the cats. Just trust me, they don’t like it.
I’ve explained how neither of us are qualified to make the call on animation enough, yet you insist on cherry picking your sources and examples. God help a developer if they don’t want to double their effort by making two main characters to placate you and the rest of the Perpetually Offended Brigade. Yet I don’t see you or the POB complaining that Horizon:Zero Dawn didn’t have an Alan aside Aloy. Why not a Luke Croft beside Lara? You know why? Because you don’t care, and neither do I or fellow Gamers. You don’t care because it doesn’t give you the right target to fit your hero fantasy. We don’t care because a character’s gender doesn’t matter to us so long as they’re interesting and fit the setting.
Like pretty much everything else, you’re basing your view of GamerGate on inaccurate, biased information. And while I know there’s no hope of waking you up to that. I’m going to respond anyway, because I apparently can’t help myself any more than you can.
Both sides had valid points. The problem was they were talking past each other and about completely different topics, and became so focused on demonizing each other that it got out of hand. Most GamerGate folks I talked to had no problem with women game developers or game characters or women Gamers. Most anti-GamerGate people, when you could get them to to talk rationally and look at the specific examples, agreed that there were problems with games journalism that needed to be addressed. Which is why in GamerGate’s wake many gaming news sites adopted new codes of ethics or revised existing ones.
Both sides got harassed. Most of it didn’t actually originate from their opposing side. It largely came from independent groups like the GNAA(not going to decode that acronym here, look it up) and similar groups that just like to stir things up and cause controversy. Some came from each side as retaliation against what they perceived as harassment from the other. Both sides did what they could to police harassment coming from their side, calling out those who participated in it.
Of course, if you’re getting your information largely from the very sources that GamerGate was calling out, you’re going to get an inaccurate view of the situation.
I don’t know anything about ComicsGate, so I can’t comment. But given your track record of bad information, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a very similar set of circumstances.
Look, Don, I know the Duke and Duchess tell you all these things and send you out on these quests and you feel real good because you think you’re fighting the good fight against all those bad people they told you about. But they’re using you, misleading you with lies and half-truths, winding you and all your buddies up for their amusement and benefit. I know Merlin told you I have to whip myself a few thousands times to remove the curse on that princess, but that was just one of their maids in a fancy dress and a butler with a fake beard and pointy hat.
Gamers “harass” each other online in competitive multiplayer for the same reason athletes trash talk one another. If you can upset your opponent, you gain an advantage. If they think they can knock someone off their game by insulting their gender, race, or sexuality, then that’s what they’ll target. Is it the nicest behavior? No. Does it make them sexist/racist/etc? Also no. Is it even really harassment? I find it hard to call something you can completely avoid by muting someone if they start being an asshole “harassment.”
And since you’ve posted while I was typing this....
Battlefield 1942 actually didn’t have a jet pack. The expansion “secret weapons of WWII” had a jet pack, which came out a year after the game. So, an expansion where the entire premise was to put secret and experimental WWII technology into the player’s hands had a jet pack based on the experimental German Himmelstürmer jet pack, and from what I can see, it was about as impractical and dangerous to use in game as the real thing. How is that not appropriate to the setting?
And you do realize that everything you said about Battlefield 1 confirms everything I’ve been telling you, right? They had a plausible, historically authentic character, that wasn’t replacing a real person from an actual historical operation, put her in the game without trying to make it out to be some great accomplishment for women everywhere, and no one cared. Congratulations, you just undermined your own point.
For the last time, Don, put down the damn elixir!
"The game’s Bedouin protagonist Zara Ghufran was likely based off a Lebanese woman named Farida al Akle. She was purportedly a lover of T.E. Lawrence who taught him Arabic"
Seems like they're replacing a real person to me.
So because Battlefield 1 didn't advertise their diverse cast they don't get shouted at by shit heads about something completely different? If Battlefield V didn't have a woman in their advertising all these shit heads wouldn't have said anything. Ergo all this talk of "historical accuracy" is... Bullshit. It's not about historical accuracy, it's about showing women in their video game.
So Battlefield 1 replaced actual people with a proxy, but didn't advertise a woman = no claims of historical inacuracies
Battlefield V did the same thing but advertised that women were in it = claims of historical inaccuracies
I WONDER WHERE THE DIFFERENCE IS.
So either these people are just full of shit about wanting historical accuracy or they're a bunch of morons.
And sorry using racial slurs -does- in fact make a person a bit of a rascist. Considering there's a bunch of non-racial things one could be saying. If a person's go to thing when they're mad is to yell out a bunch of racial, homophobic, and/or misogynistic shit then they're probably a bit shit. Personally I just drop the F bomb a lot. You know, a not racist thing to say.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy
"The Gamergate controversy stemmed from a harassment campaign conducted primarily through the use of the hashtag #GamerGate."
"Observers in the media have largely rejected these claims as baseless. Chris Ip of the Columbia Journalism Review wrote that "many criticisms of press coverage by people who identify with Gamergate [...] have been debunked" and concluded that "at core, the movement is a classic culture war"."
Whoops, seems Gamergate was shit all along basing their hate movement on a bunch of shit that had no grounding in fact!
Cool a handful of action games. Compared to
... How many male driven power fantasy games? Seeing as ladies make up roughly 50% of the population you'd think it should be pretty 1:1 unless of course the gaming market has been specifically catering to males for almost all of it's existance and is only fairly recently starting to diversify after finding out that (shocker) girls play video games. And now with that revalation men are having a knee jerk reaction seeing women coming to their hobby as some sort of invaders trying to take their games away. See all the youtube vids that are like "SJWs try to get this game cancelled" or "the game femenists don't want you to play!" Or other such trite, like the recent DOOM sequel stuff, there's a ton of videos that were like "SJWs hate DOOM 2!" Which pretty much all stems from about 3 Tumblr posts that are along the lines of "Game looks good but some of the dialogue seems a little problematic" you know cause people can take what is supposed to be parody and satire and think it's actually true and on "their side" which is exactly what happened.
Rey mind tricked a storm trooper, moved a lightsaber, and lifted some rocks not exactly Jedi Master level stuff. That's about all she's done with the force. And she got lucky with the TIE fighters, or help from the force. But either way it's a cool shot.
And that's a lot of assumptions, especially as Obiwan had to explain the Jedi to luke something that they were "peacekeepers of the old republic" or suchlike, it's been a while since I've sat down and watched the original trillogy.
Rey is picking up the force fater than Luke, that's true, but she also has had more exposure to the force than Luke.
And the fightscene with Kylo and Rey vs those guards is the best fight scene in Star Wars.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
They didnt say "historically accurate" they said historical battle. The battle of stalingrad was a historical battle, as in it actually happened in history. The battle of las vegas was not a historical battle because it never happened in real life.
All I can find about Farida al Akle is that she was the supposed lover (though only spiritually? Because he didn’t like to be touched) of Lawrence of Arabia who taught him Arabic. But all this comes from a book “The Boy in the Mask - The Hidden World of Lawrence of Arabia,” by Dick Benson-Gyles, published in March 2016, according to Amazon. Given the rushed schedule of DICE games, it’s conceivable she was the inspiration, but given the timing, I’d want to see it stated from a developer before I bought it, and your quote appears to be only a journalist’s interpretation of the character. Otherwise, they wouldn’t say “purportedly.”
While I haven’t read the book, the prevailing wisdom had previously been that Lawrence was a repressed homosexual. From the snippets of interviews with the author I skimmed, it seemed he wanted to “restore” his “faith in [Lawrence]” after feeling that previously written biographies had painted the man he thought of as a hero in a bad light, and part of that was the idea that Lawrence was gay. The author met with Farida sometime prior to her death in 1975(which may lend some credence to the game character being based on her, if details of the book were being released prior to publishing). She didn’t admit to a romantic relationship during the meeting but supposedly sent him a letter afterward where she called their relationship a “union of a soul with a soul.” But specified there was no more physical contact than him having his arm around her. So I’d take anything outside her teaching Lawrence Arabic with a grain of salt without further research.
However, assuming it all was true and the developers knew about it and Farida was in some way an inspiration for the game character, would this be the same as the heavy water arc? No, of course not. There’s nothing in the historical record to indicate Farida ever fought in the war, and certainly nothing that would tell us about specific operations she took part in. I’m only reading the cliff notes version of the game story, but there’s no indication there that the game ever portrays Zara as teaching Lawrence Arabic or them having any manner of romantic involvement. Perhaps it’s there in the game and just left out of the synopsis I’m reading, feel free to correct me if such is the case.
We’re not giving a fictional character credit for the deeds of a real person. At worst, we might be fudging Lawrence’s deeds a bit, but I don’t know how detailed our account of his deeds during the war is. My understanding is he was leading a rebel movement rather than leading an organized army, so I would expect we don’t have detailed information on everything he did, so the scenario is at least plausible.
So, no, it’s nothing like replacing a real person.
And this is why we do a minimum of research before making claims about things we know nothing about, Don. Otherwise, we make fools of ourselves.
Dear God, do I really have to go over this again? I’ve explained it over and over, but you just refuse to understand or accept it. They can have women in the game, in the advertising, no one cares. We’ve demonstrated this with Odyssey. It’s when they act like it’s some major leap forward for women to have a female game character that people get annoyed. How many times do I have to say that the massive blowback they got is about how they presented things and how they reacted to negative feedback before you understand that simple concept? The initial issue with women in WWII was just a tiny little seed. On it’s own, no bigger than the ME3 gay romance or Reach female hit box issue. They planted it in the fertilizer of an obviously pandering and self-aggrandizing advertising campaign, and watered it regularly watered it with hatred and vitriol for anyone who criticized them and healthy dose of PC BS, until it grew into a mighty oak of outrage, that promptly fell and crushed their sales.
It’s not about what you say when you’re mad, it’s about what you say to get your opponent mad, which I explained, but at this point you either refusing to understand or misrepresenting something is par for the course, so carry on.
If in your opinion that is racist, well, that’s your opinion and mine differs. All we can really do is go back and forth, it is, it isn’t, which there’s enough of in this thread already. It’s quite brave of you to be willing to call pretty much every modern rap artist a racist, though.
Ah yes, Wikipedia. The most authoritative subject on everything.
Seriously? You’re going to try to prove your view on GamerGate is accurate with Wikipedia?
Now, I know I referenced wikipedia previously, but that was specifically a section that itself was referencing information from a university, and even then, I prefaced it by saying I don’t like using Wikipedia. Your quotes appear to be journalists, talking about how there were no valid concerns with journalists’ ethics.....
Oh, don’t worry people, the press have conducted an investigation into the press and found that the press did nothing wrong. That’s totally legitimate!
If there were no valid concerns raised by GamerGate, then why did IGN, EuroGamer.net, the Escapist, and many other gaming news sites update and release their code of ethics to the public after GamerGate started hounding them about malpractice?
No, wait, I know. It was misogyny, right?
You’re taking the word of the people accused of corruption that they aren’t corrupt based on nothing but their promise that they dindu nuffin, dey good boys. Use some critical thinking here, please!
But again, I knew that it was pointless to try to get you to look at another side. I’ve said my piece, if you want to find the truth, it’s out there if you’re willing to dig for it.
A handful of action games? That’s just the list I could come up with in 30 seconds from games I’ve personally played. And more than enough to show that Gamers don’t care about the gender of their character so long as the game is good. No one is bothered about women entering gaming or more female characters. We do care about the kinds of games we like getting censored or having PC BS inserted into them. And if you don’t think SKWs and modern feminism have a censorious streak, then you haven’t been paying attention. Maybe Doom Eternal isn’t an example of that right now, but there’s plenty of other examples.
More Star Wars? I asked nicely.
Rey beat Luke, the most experienced force user we know of in universe at the time, with the possible exception of Snoke, but now we’ll probably never know how the two compared(yet another way TLJ messes things up). So yes, if you can defeat a Jedi master, yes Jedi master level.
And that part of the scene came off more like Obi-Wan reminiscing than him explaining what the Jedi were to me. Furthermore, when Luke asks him about the Force, Obi-Wan says it’s what gives a Jedi his power. But Luke never asks what power, which would have been my very next question if I’d just learned I was the son of a Jedi who might be able to become one himself, but had no idea what Jedi could do.
Rey, with again, 1 week’s time since she learned the Force is more than a myth and she has Force potential, has been exposed to the force more than Luke, who was trained by Yoda, has been using the force for decades at this point, and at one point was even running a new Jedi academy? How do you figure that?
And no, a highly choreographed “fight”(fancy dance) between 2 people who have no reason to be working together, and a bunch of masked randos who we know literally nothing about, is not the best thing in Star Wars. The fight between Vader and Luke at the end of RotJ has more of interest going on, and that’s not even the best thing in Star Wars. Plinkett explains it better than I could, look up his reviews if you aren’t familiar.
y'all gotta learn to be more concise :p
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[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
I was just thinking the same.
[color=red]PR Team, Forum Moderator, Live Response Team[/color]
Yeah, after posting I realized that first bit might be based on Lawrence of Arabia, so fair go there. But adding in characters and events that didn't happen doesn't exactly scream historically accurate, does it?
It still stands that this "replacing people" thing you keep harping about (which of course they did, one player doesn't usually play as a whole squad, so picking one real person out of a bunch of real people to be the protagonist wouldn't sit well either) likely wasn't known about until much after the initial launch trailer... Which is where people were making the historically inaccurate comments. So I guess these folks knew from the trailer the content of the game.
And of course, they heralded their inclusion of a woman so of course they got ire from gamers from being too political and pandering... No wait... They were claiming historical inaccuracy... In a series that has a history of not being historically accurate. Bit like complaining water is wet, huh?
On Gamergate, the valid concerns they had more apply to AAA game publishes so then they spent their time... Harassing Women... Who have little to nothing to do with Game Journalism. The instigating incident that spawned Gamergate, a positive review of a game said to have been obtained by sleeping with the journalist, didn't even exist. So we have a group founded on a lie who's only victories seems to have been sending death threats to women.
Name some examples of SJWs censoring games. Go ahead, I'll wait.
And as for Star Wars (if you don't want to keep talking about it just stop posting about it) oh you mean when Rey attacked him (begining with a sucker punch) then Luke effortlessly defended himself before Rey got a lightsaber (something a stick can't block unless you're Vodo-Siosk Baas) and Luke backed off defensively and slipped on the wet rocks? Oh yeah, total victory there. Not to mention the fact that Luke at that time is extremely rusty not having used the force or fought for YEARS.
Rey had more exposure to the force in her first movie than Luke had in his first movie is what I meant. Not that Rey has had more than Luke in his entire life.
No reason to work together? Other than the bunch of guards coming at them both to kill them both for the assassination of their leader. And the fact that they're both under the impression that the other will join them. Yes, the RotJ fight is great, also, but I find this fight a lot more fun which wins out in my book.
Seen the Plinkett reviews, and I like them for the most part.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Hey, some of my posts have a TL;DR at the bottom.
I can't get much more consise than "Gamers are trash."
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Took a stroll through Battlefield V's twitter (as an ad for the game kept popping up) and not once did they (the twitter account) say anything about historical accuracy.
They did say "Untold Stories" which given that most WW2 games start at D-Day and star American troops that likely holds up. The story missions are BASED or real WW2 operations, of course with some creative liberties added to make for a more enjoyable experience, as most things adapting WW2 stories do.
The first trailer was a multiplayer trailer used to show how fun and wacky the multiplayer is and was by no means meant to be a representation of historical accuracy.
Anyone looking for historical accuracy in Battlefield is frankly looking in the wrong place.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
TL;DR goes at the top I think, since it's easy to scroll past otherwise
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Avatar by MikeNovember
"Let the thread die. Kill it if you have to."
"THE TITANS ARE COMING! THE TITANS ARE COMING!"
True enough, I'll try to be more accommodating in the future.
"Gamers are trash" is the short version, if you missed it.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Might be a plan, honestly.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Always the whiniest of a group sets the image
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Or at least the loudest.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
At this point it’s just become “yes it is! No it isn’t!” back and forth. I’ve run out of patience for trying to find creative ways to explain this so that Don here can get it. The arguments are all out there, so yes, with one exception, I’m done.
Since you asked, SJW censorship examples, starting with games:
GTA V pulled from KMart and Target shelves after petition.
A whole swath of changes made to the English version of Fire Emblem Fates/Conquest due to SJW criticism of the Japanese version.
Numerous changes to Bravely Second’s western release, including numerous costumes, some dialogue, and 4 endings that were entirely removed.
Some quests in Blade and Soul rewritten.
Trans Gladiator pulled from Steam due to death threats against the developer.
Hatred temporarily pulled from Steam due to outcry against it.
Attempted to get Bayonetta censored, but ultimately failed.
Some costumes changed in Bravely Default.
Developers decided to stop porting Dead or Alive Extreme Beach Volleyball games to the west due to SJW backlash.
Japanese developer Compile Heart has chosen not to port most of it’s library to the west, rather than censor them to please PC sensibilities.
Breast size slider removed from Xenoblade Chronicles X’s character creator.
2 costumes changed in Fatal Frame 5’s western release.
The character Mika censored in Street Fighter V.
Changes to characters in Overwatch due to criticism.
Since we’ve talked so much about GamerGate, several popular game sites and forums outrighted banned any pro-GamerGate discussion.
For more serious matters, see nearly every time someone vaguely right of center tries to have some kind of event on a college campus in a left-leaning area.
See the number of popular online commentators being deplatformed.
I could go on and on, probably fill a lengthy book with short blurbs like this for each example. It’s rampant in pretty much every facet of popular culture today, it’s just that Gamers by and large havn’t given in to it like most groups have. But I’m tired of this and you’re just going to ignore it all anyway.
A private store deciding to pull a game that had been out for ages isn't censorship. The game is unchanged and can easily be purchased elsewhere.
Changes a game company makes to comply with another countries laws is censorship but has nothing to do with SJWs.
Trans Gladiator was a cobbled together mess whos devs misrepresented the game and actively lied about it. It should never have gotten on steam in the first place.
Hatred is still on steam, so it wasn't censored at all.
Can't find anything about Bayonetta other than that in smash she doesn't get as naked, which would be a decision from Nintendo, not SJWs
Dead or Alive Volleyball wasn't ported to the west due to low sales. It's not worth the cost to translate. Again, nothing to do with SJWs.
Compile Heart's decision is less about PC sensibilites and more about various laws in the west. That coupled with the costs it would likely take to modify their games. They have a number of games that are available over here such as the Neptunia series, Record of Agarest War series, and puyo puyo. Most of their games likely haven't come over here due to either being based on properties that are not popular over here, types of games that are not popular over here, or would be too high of a cost vs the risks.
There's not really any definitive answer on why the breast slider was removed. It might be linked to them aging up a character from 13 to 15 and then not letting her dress in some of the more skimpy outfits. It's possible it was re.oved so the player couldn't make their character look like a child and then dress in skimpy outfits. All speculation, however.
On Mika's buttslap “We didn’t make any change because of external influences,” Yoshinori Ono says. “Those changes came up internally. We decided to remove that because we want the biggest possible number of people to play, and we don’t want to have something in the game that might make someone uncomfortable.” So unless the street fighter boss is an SJW then no, not a case of SJW censorship.
Overwatch devs agreed with a poster that the pose was not in keeping with Tracer's character and the game still has a lot of pretty ladies doing sexy poses. So someone made a compelling argument, dev agreed. Not really them bowing to SJW pressures here.
Gamergate sent death threats to women.
A lot of those "vaguely right from center" folks being deplatformed have ties to neo-nazi and white supremacist movements, have used hate speach, or otherwise violated a platforms terms of service.
You chose an odd hill to die on here. Defending hate speech and the sexualization of underaged girls.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Alright, so moving on then. The current hot story in gaming is about a company issuing a DMCA copyright complaint on all of a youtuber's videos, the vast majority of which had NOTHING to do with the company. They blatantly misused the (guilty until proven innocent) DMCA system to silence a critic entirely.
https://torrentfreak.com/battlestate-games-issues-dozens-of-dmca-takedowns-to-silence-youtuber-181218/
Admittedly I don't think it's a AAA game company, but it's good to get back to actual news in this thread.
If they even once watched those videos they would know that he mostly did some clickbait-y titles. Of course, the videos are not positive, but neither negative. So their information about misinformation is false. I only watched 2 videos, which were used in the article, to see what the developers exactly meant what they stated.
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What they say and why they do it don't have to be the same thing, you realize that right?
I could make a game of whatever, get backlash for it, and then change it but say it was because of internal testing or whatever spin I want to put on it, so it looks like it was my suggestion and not bowing down to the whining masses.
Yeah, shit companies and devs will do that. Hell, regular people do that shite to try and silence YouTubers they don't agree with politically. YouTube's system for dealing with that stuff is broken.
See Digital Homicide vs. Jim "Fucking" Sterling, Son. Digi-Hom tried that kond of thing then went all in on it, and attempted to sue for like, 10 million dollars in damages. That did not go well for them.
Also AAA publishers will give reviewers a list of things that can be said in their videos, Jim covered this on one of his videos too.
AAA companies will also blacklist websites that give them bad reviews (read as scores they don't like), entice potential reviewers with paid retreats, and put pressure on site owners to ensure they get a decent review by threatening to pull advertisements from the website.
Here's some news. After saying it wont be putting loot boxes into Fallout 76 it seems like... Bethesda will be putting loot boxes into Fallout 76.
And Nintendo is under fire for not giving refunds on digital pre-orders. And they've beem doing so well recently too, what with releasing a bunch of claims on YouTube videos and all.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
We have nothing to go on but what they said unless other news comes to light.
It makes more sense from a marketing and customer service stand point to claim to be giving the people what they want. You know, like EA did when they recieved a bunch of backlash for Star Wars battlefront 2's loot boxes when the real reason is that it was costing them sales and they didn't want to lose those.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Lol you guys are funny. I'm just glad that people who actually BUY games and comics and not just rant on social media for brownie points are tired of big companies and boycotting their products. Sure some people actually still buy them but not in large enough quantities to keep the those brands sustainable. I fully believe that the rise of indie comics and indie developers are a direct result of this. Hopefully this trend will continue to receive support from their respective communities to give big companies a serious reality check especially with Star Wars. I had high hopes with SW: Battlefront II, but the story was such a let down. The promise of getting a full campaign from the view point of an imperial soldier was awesome (again deceptive marketing). But sadly that only lasted for what 2 missions? The very next mission after that you were besties with Leia after just murdering her rebel friends . And of course the train wreck that was multiplayer with micro transactions. Iden Versio had a lot of promise at least she wasn't a mary sue like Rey. She had training as an elite imperial trooper to justify her combat prowess. Where as Rey was just the new chosen one, gift of the force. Able to mind control without ever knowing about it, able to defeat a sith who trained in the force and sabre combat since birth, knew more or just as much about the Falcon as the guy who practically lived in the damn thing for many years without ever setting foot in it. Those movies were such let downs, which is why I and many others voted with our wallets and not spent money on subsequent product offerings. And that's what these consumer movements are all about (that and the collusion of supposed objective gaming / comics journalism with these AAA companies giving high critic ratings to promote sales). You called it gamergate and comicsgate but really its about long time fans who don't like what was given to them and aren't willing to spend their money on what they consider crap. And complaining on the forums does absolutely nothing after you spent your money (just look at the current Bethesda situation for a more recent example). If that leads to the properties dying off then so be it. Eventually a new property will emerge that will give their fans what they want and will rake in all the cash. Its just that simple. MWM with COT is absolute proof of this. And yes I already have few character concepts that are women that I look forward to playing as. Seriously, this game can't get here fast enough.
These are my bases:
CoH Base
https://imgur.com/a/HbskR
Citadel Forged With Fire
https://imgur.com/a/9okUuf1
Rey has combat training as shown by her beating the ever loving snot out of like 2-3 dudes without help. Living on a hostile world full of hostile people will help greatly in learning how to fight considering as a junk trader she has clearly often needed to fight off those who would steal from her.
Kylo attmepted to read her mind and was in turn read by Rey which is how she learned how to mind trick, after failing a few times.
Kylo isn't a sith, he's a dark Jedi there is a difference, and he wasn't trying to kill Rey as evidenced by him asking her to join him. Much like how Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke in Empire. Also my boy Kylo did all this after tanking a shot by a weapon that sends armored dudes flying, being in deep emotional turmoil, and after fighting (more like toying with) another trained fighter. If you watch the fight it's clear that Kylo is barely trying and Rey is on the defensive almost the entire time.
Rey -has- stepped foot in the Falcon and it is strongly implied she has flown the ship. "Not that one, it's garbage!" She has also worked on the ship as she was around, and said it was a bad idea, when the guy who had the ship on Jakku installed something. So that is why she knows about some problem with the falcon that Han doesn't, because it was installed after Han had the falcon and she worked on it.
Like, just watch the freeking movie, dude.
Luke "I'm not such a bad pilot myself" Skywalker flew in a dogfight over a heavily armed battle station in an unfamiliar craft, he's only flown a T-16 skyhopper anairspeeder, and succeeded, almost unscathed, where other pilots, possibly veterans of multiple battles, died.
Luke mived a lightsaber without knowing the force could do that, while hanging upside down, freezing to death, likely with a cuncussion. Remember Luke's only interaction with the force so far is using it to sense things and seeing Obi-wan Mindtricking a guard.
Luke with no combat training is able to fend off Vader, a cybernetically enhanced Sith Lord, and even get some licks in.
And for anyone whining about not knowing anything about Snoke in the original trillogy we knew the same amount about the Emperor. Hell, I don't think they even said his -Name- in the original trillogy he was just "The Emperor" where did he come from? How did he get into power? Is he a Jedi? We didn't know untill after the movie with the toys, books, comics, and eventually the prequels.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
1. Rey does have have some combat training in street fighting and is evidenced by her use of the Bo staff. But fighting with a staff and using a light sabre with technique are two very different things. So no, she has no formal training.
2. Kyle attempted to pull information from her mind, not control it. Two very different things. So no, no training in that either.
3. True that Kyle isn't an official sith, but he may as well be after killing his father which Snoke said would be his final and most difficult test. But that doesn't Take away from your boy Kyle being martially trained from birth in fighting. That in itself means he has experience in fighting while hurt. Add to that his armor and his rage, which rage fuels the dark side and it's numbing effects means he was quite fit for battle against an unexperienced force user like Rey. It would have been more believe able had she said some dialogue after talking about how when she closed her eyes the force showed her how to defeat Kylo.
4. No where in the movie does it mention her ever stepping foot in the Falcon. Her garbage comment could also be referring to things she heard from others while working in the area. Her other comment about installing the additional hardware is a tribute to her knowledge of ships in general. Don't you think if she had stepped inside the Falcon before she would have know what it was? Maybe accessed some memory bank while working on it? She didn't know until Han told her. Here's the clip:
https://youtu.be/oDP2nW-sSAA
Lol like, I did totally did watch the movie "my dude". Your implied insult of ignorance doesnt change my opinion nor that of other more die hard fans of SW that Rey, as a character, is a Mary sue. And there is ample evidence of that. I believe it's more a problem of bad storytelling than character design. I also just read an article about how TLJ was written before TFA. One of the Lucas films people admitted to such on twitter. How can you write the middle of a series before the beginning? This does however explain why the characters we see in TLJ do not match what we saw in TFA.
5. I agree with you here. Flying a Cessna and flying an F22 Raptor are completely different things. Luke shouldn't have been able to fly a fighter that well. That being said, the force does provide a 6th sense of things about to happen which is what Qui Gon said in episode one when talking about young Anakin flying the pod racers. Luke's connection to the force was strengthened while training with Obi on the Falcon. But technically speaking he shouldn't have known how to operate the fighter.
6. Luke was trained in the ways of the force and sabre tactics by Obi-Wan
clip:
https://youtu.be/owvpRNzoaVU
The Hoth scene you reference didn't happen till episode 5 which was quite sometime after the events of the first movie. And he didnt get it in the first go either.
Heres the clip:
https://youtu.be/By-CKsffwKA
It is understood that Luke kept training and expanding upon his earlier teachings from Obi-Wan till Yoda entered the picture. Which I believe prepared him more for the fight with Vader. Remember Luke doesn't fight Vader till the second movie.
As for Snoke, I think it could have been more interesting. A strong force user like him not sensing the duplicity in your boys actions nor the moving lightsabre next to him is laughable. Missed opportunity there for furthering the lore and expanding the universe. You may not be interested in his story, but others are. Why do you invalidate their opinion? Because it doesn't match yours? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Remember this thread is a discussion not an argument. Don't be so dismissive of others.
These are my bases:
CoH Base
https://imgur.com/a/HbskR
Citadel Forged With Fire
https://imgur.com/a/9okUuf1
Bethesda is in the news AGAIN! Seems folks got a look at the holiday items in the cash shop for Fallout 76 and found them ridiculous. Apparently a Santa outfit costs $20, which is almost as much as the entire game in some places ($26). Man this is a bad gift that keeps on stinking. But judge for yourself...
https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2018/12/fallout-76-stirs-controversy-once-again-with-overpriced-atom-shop-items/73752/?fbclid=IwAR2rJWhS8Y2D-iZ-_sHISWrqQtFUrk7eXSd0Tao5wg9OlwBceTmUl4BpyM8
Oh and if we're veering off topic into Star Wars, I always like to mention the Silver Screen edition of Star Wars. Story is someone found a print of the original movie in a dirty and disused state. They then spent YEARS cleaning it, frame by frame, by HAND. Then they uploaded it onto the net. Now it's a big file, for those familiar with such things, originally at around 26G. But it's the original that Disney doesn't seem to want to release. It's not "A New Hope", it's not "Episode IV", it's just the original theatrical release. And Han shoots first.
A lightsaber is about as hard to wield as a flashlight or a stick. Her skill with one weapon and her general fighting abilities would pretty easily translate over. And again, Kylo wasn't trying to kill her. He was dominating the fight and she got in a lucky shot, that's all.
Kylo attempted to pull info from Rey, but Rey pulled info from Kylo hence learning the mind trick. Affecting another's mind with the force is something she learned could be done.
We have no indication of when Ben was sent to Luke for training. He could have been sent when he was 12 or 13 or so. Your "from birth" comment is completely unfounded. We don't know that Snoke is a sith, all we know is he's a powerful dark side force user. Sith, like the Jedi, is a religion or at least a number of teachings and a way of life. Storm Troopers are also armored the bowcaster sends them flying. Kylo had rage, yes, but also sadness and regret. And once more an injured, emotionally unstable, and tired Kylo Ren was dominating the fight with Rey. She was mostly defending herself until she got in a lucky shot at the end.
Rey seemed to know her way around the falcon, where the turrets were and how to start it up. She knew how to fix it when it broke, and she knew where the guy put that mod on the falcon. She knows this ship. She worked for the guy who ow ed it for all of her life. Like, do you need the movie to spell things out for you?
So we admit Luke shouldn't have been able to fly in that battle.
Luke was taught only how to sense things around him. To give him a sort of 6th sense. He was not told, nor taught, that the force could manipulate non-living objects or do anything close to what he attempted to do in Empire. It is understood that he kept training what Obi taught him... So sensing things with the force? So he shouldn't have got hit by the wampa. The one thing Obi was teaching him and he fucked it up.
Also Yoda specifically didn't teach Luke how to fight. So his prowess against Vader is more or less unexplained. This is his first real time wielding a lightsaber in a fight against a cybernetically empowered sith lord and he gets some licks in with his zero combat training? You calling out Rey for this, man, where's Luke's combat training? The dodging of blows vs. Tuskan raiders?
Luke is a Mary Sue.
Snoke read Kylo pretty spot on. Everything Snoke said was true, from a certain point of view. And there's tons of lore and expanding the universe involving Snoke; books, comics, tv shows.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Basically any complaint to Rey being a Mary Sue can also apply to Luke and then some.
They're this way because they're the main characters.
You can say you don't like the movies, or don't like the writing and that's fine. But they're not bad movies.
And it's fine to admit something, even something from a series you like, just isn't for you. You don't need to prove it's bad.
It's not like Star Wars is some bastion of only good things, the Christmas Special exists after all. Just be glad that it's a popular series and wait till something you do like comes around again. I hear the comics are really good and some of the newer novels.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
No I don't need anything spelled out for me. Just a good self contained story and not have to read a book after watching a movie to fill in the gaps. I did a quick Google search and sure enough all of your insight is right from the book. So either you read the book or read an article about the book. Its still bad story telling. Rey is a Mary sue do to bad story telling.
I said this earlier, maybe you glossed over it.
"I believe it's more a problem of bad storytelling than character design." In regards to Rey.
And the Clip I posted for you, which you clearly didn't view has Luke training with a light sabre in his hands with ObiWan on the Falcon. And what are they practicing? Blocking laser fire with a sabre, that looks like sabre training to me. Sure it didn't get a lot of screen time. But enough to.get the point across that training was happening and ongoing.
And yeah Snoke, never said he was a sith, did read Kylo spot on and yet did nothing to stop him. Academy awad winning story telling right there. I'm sure there are a bunch of secondary products expanding on the universe but why would I spend my money on the new universe stuff if I didn't like the movies?
These are my bases:
CoH Base
https://imgur.com/a/HbskR
Citadel Forged With Fire
https://imgur.com/a/9okUuf1
I haven't read any of the books, or comics. All my knowledge is either from the movie or applying common sense. Rey knew combat, evidence in the movie. Rey knew the falcon, evidence in the movie. Rey mentions reading something from Kylo IIRC so, evidence is in the movie.
Luke learning to block weak laser bolts isn't combat training. That's not even the purpose of the training. It's just to sense and react to danger... Which as we see with the Wampa, Luke sucks at.
Everything Snoke said with Kylo was true. Kylo's feelings just didn't telegraph who he saw as an enemy and Snoke in his arrogance made a fatal assumption. Like the Emperor he didn't think for a moment that his apprentice would turn.
One would think that the Emperor with all his power in the force would have sensed Vader's betrayal. I mean even Luke sensed the conflict within Vader. Yet the Emperor just let Vader kill him? Academy awad winning story telling right there.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Wake me up when the dispute reaches the "[I]all we have to do now to defeat the empire is drive hyperspeed into enemy ship formations[/I]" stage.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
It was a cool looking scene.
Just wait for the inevitable of nerds explaining it away through novels, comics, EU stories, fan theories, and what have you. Like they did for the "12 parsecs" thing Han said, fun fact, Lucas just didn't know it was a measure of distance.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Possible that she had worked on or scavenged from *other* YT-1300's or similar models, leading to a general familiarity with the design even if she had not been on that specific 'piece of garbage'.
Although if she had, and didn't know it was the Falcon, that would imply that one of it's owners had gone to some effort to deliberatly hide what ship it was (scrubbed the name off the ship's database/nameplate, etc). Given that it was a smuggling ship, had passed through several criminal hands, at least some of whom may have known that Han (and goodness knows who else) was looking for it, it's not an unreasonable assumption. Hopefully this will get covered in a book or something.
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If I recall correctly 20th Century Fox owns distribution rights for the original trilogy. Disney might not have been able to release the originals (at least not without cutting a hefty cheque to someone else). Now that Disney is in the process of acquiring most of Fox, that might change.
Not going to get involved in this cesspool of a back-and-forth "discussion", but as someone who lived through the Satanic Panic and the like of the 80's, I just find it hilarious how yesterday's "Moral Majority Conservative Christian" shares so much with today's "Social Justice Warrior". Two sides of the same coin - both just very loud minorities. MOdern social media just makes the situation seem bigger. Of course it is all too easy to paint the "other side" with such labels in a disagreement, and such terms are used far too frequently - to the point where they start to lose meaning.
Wouldn't that also mean, that the X-men franchise would now be owned by Disney respectively Marvel Studios, LLC? Well I know it wouldn't change much for the MCU... But still... I can hope, as Thanos and Deadpool had multiple clashes in the comics.
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
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Yeah it could have been another one, but seeing as the Falcon is the only one we see it's probably safe to assume that she is familiar with the falcon. Especially as she knows where and what modifications were made.
I don't know if there's really anything all that noteworthy to tell anyone that it -is- the millenium falcon. Anyone who had heard stories of it probably imagined a much better looking or well kept ship than it was. Other than talking to the ships computer like C3PO did.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Funny all the people opposing progressiveness and diversity seem to share much in common with the moral majority conservitive Christian to me. Not wanting homosexuality in things, fear of change and new things, etc.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Yes the X-Men movie rights would be back under the Marvel umbrella, as would the distribution rights (at least) for the Fantastic Four.
The problem with indie developers/creators, is most of them suck at it.
Look at Image Comics. So many of them were great artists and yet, put them in indie mode and they couldn't keep a comic coming.
Look at online comics. Lots of them can't even sustain a constant schedule. Then there's down grade in quality for whatever reason. They just get bored and leave.
Yeah, there's a few indie success projects. But by and large most indie games are either unplayable garbage or just so-so.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
There was time between TESB and RotJ. It was obviously time to train. It's even spoken out loud so people know this.
Don't care if Rey is a Mary Sue or not (and thank you for called Luke Mary Sue, even if I don't agree with it, I hate that someone had to feel so dejected they came up with Gary Stu...always made me eye roll), she's a terrible character, because Daisy can't act and the writers didn't help it any.
I do agree with you and have stated it to others before. They show Rey using weapons, fighting, piloting, and such to explain it all, and really, that's what heroes do, LOTS OF SHIT!
Daisy still can't act and the writing did her and the character no favors though.
Recently on another forums, I couldn't help but notice some outspoken progressives talking/acting like they believe evil conservatives are. :p Which tells you the most important thing people need to know...
Progressive or Conservative both sides have their suckie ass people.
Talking Luke Vs. Vader in Empire, Brand. At that point Luke had dodged some attacks by a raider, cut into an AT-AT, chopped the arm off a wompa, and hallucinated inside a cave.
That's about all we've seen him do as far as hand to hand combat training. Yet when fighting Vader he gets a couple of hits in.
And people think Rey, who was shown not just fighting but beating 2-3 other people in a fight, has no combat experience.
It's ridiculous. People hold Luke to a much lower standard and don't seem to think a bunch if his stuff is outlandish or mary-sue-esque. Oh he's the son of anakin Skywalker? Well who was he in the OT? Obiwan's student and friend who went evil, that's it. He weren't freeking space jesus then. Luke was just the child of a Jedi, which nothing in the OT indicates that this was a strange occurance or that Luke was special for it in any way.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I love how this reply both misses the point and proves the quote right, all at the same time.
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To put a time frame on it, there was a five-year time gap between ANH and ESB, in which Luke did nothing but train and run rebel missions. So between the two movies, he does get a lot of experience. Between ESB and RotJ it's another 2-3 years. The Marvel comics are(had?) been going into the exact details, but that's still a media outside the movies so doesn't really keep it self contained.
Luke still had his own practice going on, which is likely why we got Han's comment in RotJ when he basically laughed at Luke being a Jedi. Note, between all of that however, it's been quite some time between the movies.
3 years between NH and TESB. Then 1 year between TESB and RotJ. In the meantime it felt as if Luke had gone back to Dagobah to get some more training.
Rey had nothing more than a few weeks if that with Luke and just a few weeks between TFA and TLJ.
Now remember, we were given set ups to all Luke did as well. We knew he was a pilot, we knew he was good at shooting. "That shot is impossible." "No different than shooting swamp rats back home." (I may have butchered that line).
So, I wouldn't say people are holding Luke to a much lower standard. Though others may just hold Rey in some high regard for reasons other than "well written character"
The line is "womp rats". So not so far off really. :)
The story is the skywalker family soap opera. It was never intended to be detailed about specific tech or anything like that. enjoy the story and dont expect it to all make sense.
I won't lie.
I want it to be the Skywalker family soap opera!
I want more Luke! I wanted to see the books come to life. I wanted to see Mara Jade. When Episode 7 was announced as happening, I was hoping for recasts of Luke, Leia and Han so their adventures after RotJ could be seen!
AAA companies always did barring maybe Valve which pretty much gave up on producing games.
I have been saying this for a long time that Blizzard was never your best friends despite how much Blizzard shills want you to believe they are because they got lucky with striking big with World of Warcraft.
Also about EA, thats not worth getting mad about. WW2 did have a lot of women and people of color as combatants. It wasn't just a white man's war. They did fuck up everything else about Battlefield 5 though and it is EA.
Considering the person whom made the thread brought gender politics up in their post I think they are whom is at fault here, not Red.
The thing is, it wasn't until the prequels.
Before the prequels Vader was just... A guy. The only thing special about him was he was a bad guy and related to Luke (And he wasn't even that in A New Hope).
Obiwan said he was surprised at how easily Anakin used the force... That was it. He wasn't the chosen one, he was just mildly surprising.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Why do you keep bringing up post Empire when the thing I'm talking about happens in Empire?
Luke has had barely any training in hand to hand combat or lightsaber training that we've seen by the time of Empire.
Shooting and piloting don't have many transferable skills to hand to hand combat.
Rey had about a weeks training in TLJ and with that training she was easily parried by Luke till she pulled a weapon that can cut through anything, fought a bunch of non-force users, and lifted some rocks.
After like what, a few days of training on Degobah Luke fought a cybernetically enhanced sith lord and got a few chops in. Also, after his training with Yoda, Yoda thought Luke ready to lift his X-Wing out of the swamp.
Pretty comparable feats here.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I told you.
You just didn't read.
Luke had 3 years between ANH and TESB. That's 3 years to get some self training in, possibly with Obi-Wan as a force ghost. Did you see it? No. Does that mean it didn't happen? No. We do know Obi-Wan seemed to still contact Luke, as Luke wasn't all "Ben? Where have you been all this time?"
TESB, Vader was never trying to kill Luke. He wanted him alive.
[youtube]lhX5V-wICuw[/youtube]
Watch the fight again. Luke got one hit in on Vader, who wasn't trying to kill him, but wanting to recruit him.
As for the X-Wing, that was not only Yoda's training method, but at that moment in the SW mythos, it could be said "Anyone can be that powerful, if one believes!" :p Then later they make it so other's can't be as powerful, no matter the training.
So, no, Luke wasn't held in some undeserved high regard.
Luke didn't get training from Obiwan's force ghost as evidenced by how surprised he was to see him on Hoth. He calls out with confusion in his voice, indicating that this hasn't happened before.
I am well aware Vader wasn't trying to kill him. I never said otherwise. But Luke is still swinging around something that can chop through limbs as easy as it can move through air ergo Vader wouldn't -let- Luke hit him. Luke got a shot in on a cybernetically empowered sith lord while having next to no hand to hand combat training (that we have seen. Assumptions and material not in the movies doesn't count).
Anyone can lift something big with the force. Size matters not. As long as you trust in the force and know you can lift it you can. It's faith, confidence, and certainty.
Also anything that comes after the OT also doesn't count in this discussion. We're basing Luke off what happens in the movies. Force awakens and last Jedi don't have the benefit of decades of expanded universe materials that explain away any inconsistencies or fill in any gaps it is unfair to judge one set of movies with all of it's spin off materials and the other set of movies based of only their own merits.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
One still has Luke training by himself for three years, obviously he's been doing combat and such. So, that's THREE years of training.
He got one hit on Vader, who wasn't trying to kill him. Vader playing it to cavalier or Luke getting one lucky hit in all goes back to Luke is not in the same boat as Rey and fans are just over looking it.
Rey came out of it all as "What? I have force abilities?" and inside of a week she was BAM.
Which, I'm not entirely against myself, again, Daisy just sucks as an actress, hopefully she gets better, as heroes tend to be larger than life and exceptional, however, one can totally see Luke having time to get some training in, even if it was self taught, which we know he had to do a lot of.
A week? It's like under 48 hours
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Its Thursday, lets see if we hear anything at all this week. 20 hours 9 min till end of fall.
my birthday is saturday, hoping for good news lol
Was commenting on the Star Wars topic
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Avatar by MikeNovember
ah, ok. they can argue for years about Lucas's story and never get anywhere.
Three years of combat in the rebel alliance and given his role as a pilot it was most likely shooting and piloting. Not exactly transferable skills to a sword fight.
A lucky hit? "In my experience there's no such thing as luck" -Obi Wan
She had a small amount of training and... Lifted some rocks. Not exactly being a huge bad ass. Luke had a small amount of training with Yoda and... Lifted some rocks. She fought some dudes but, as established, she's already good at that.
Rey is fine, y'all acting like she's freeking Corran Horn.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I wasn't acting like anything.
I disagreed with your sentiment that people are holding Luke to a lower standard.
I do believe you're trying to hold up Rey for some unknown reason.
You said Luke got a few hits in. He got one hit in. He got one hit in on someone who wasn't trying to kill him. Also, Obi-Wan says a lot of things. He also said he had the high ground, and look how that worked out for Maul.
There is no reason to believe Luke didn't do his own training (it seems obvious that he did) in that three years of time, even if he sucked at it. No reason to believe he didn't have any missions where he couldn't use that self taught training, when we see it all the time in the movies. :p
All I said about Rey in the real negative, was Daisy can't act. She can't. Hopefully she gets better. She hasn't yet.
It's been a while since I've seen Empire. Luke with no combat training shown or mentioned got a hit in on Vader. Rey with combat training shown got a hit (2 hits?) on Kylo. Neither Kylo or Vader were trying to kill their opponent. People say that Rey shouldn't have been able to do what she did but say nothing of Luke. Ergo they are holding Luke to a lower standard than they are of Rey.
There's no reason to believe Luke did his any training. It's neither stated nor shown. This is an assumption you are making for Luke's benefit.
I'm not holding up Rey, I'm just tired of people dragging her down for things that are either in the movie or that people let slide for Luke. People can dislike Rey all they like but they needn't make up stuff to somehow prove she's a bad character.
And the y'all wasn't directed specifically at you Brand, and if you feel it didn't apply to you then it doesn't.
TL;DR for folks, Rey isn't a Mary Sue, she's just a main character.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Three years between ANH and TESB, there's plenty of reason to believe he got some training in.
I do agree, main heroes always do impressive stuff.
If we were going to look at some complaints, why is it after less than hour, just because they escaped together, did that make Poe and Finn besties?
Why did Leia hug Rey and not Chewie?
Bigger problems than Rey, who I agree had combat training, but if I recall she acted on that terribly too, with the staff on Jokku. So now I wonder, would Rey be seen as better if the actress could act.
Yeah and if the movie ever said he did then fair game. But it doesn't so one can't assume.
Well the actors of Poe and Finn allegedly did their lines like they were attracted to one another, so there could be that. But also maybe Poe just makes friends really easily. Finn was also besties with Rey after hanging out with her for a while, so maybe Finn just becomes friends easily.
Because Rey needed one. Rey felt the grief of losing someone and has literally no one else in the entire universe. Chewie is a big boy, he can wait.
I don't have a problem with Daisy's acting. It's leagues ahead of the wooden stilted acting of the prequels.
Edit: Also by the trash compactor scene in New Hope Luke and Han seemed pretty buddy buddy. So it might just be a Star Wars thing.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
When Obi-Wan tells Luke to go to Dagobah system to learn from Yoda, likely because training on his own wasn't going as well. It doesn't take much to realize that. He wouldn't really have much more to go with other than practicing with the saber, and we never saw him get trained to use TK, yet he did.
Not to mention other sources make mention of Luke still training on his own in other media, which I believe it was you talking about Rey in other media.
Luke trained. He may not have gone back to Yoda, but he did go back to Tatooine and such. This includes training during his rebellion missions and such.
I mean how would you not train, even if you're just a dude with a lightsaber
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Avatar by MikeNovember
Haven't been using any sources other than the movies for Rey.
Yes, he did use Move Object without ever being shown the force was capable of even doing that. He, as far as the audience at the time knew, just pulled that out of his ass. Just a new, never before seen (in the movies till that point) technique from nowhere.
And yeah, Luke's training wasn't going well. Dude sucks at the one thing Obi taught him. Which makes me think he wasn't training at all. Dude had three years to practice what Obi wan taught him, the only thing Obi taught him, and he gets sucker punched by a beast. Not even an intelligent opponent.
So either he has been training and just sucks, or he hasn't and pulled a new, hithero never before seen, force move out of his ass.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Then it comes back to common sense.
Three years. If you think he didn't fit in any type of training during that time, then you're just saying that because you want to be okay with Rey doing everything in a two day period.
That's not common sense. It's an assumption. You made the assumption, based on the three years passing, that Luke has somehow trained his use in the force without anyone to mentor him. Nothing in the movie said he's been training. Nothing in the movie shows he's been training.
In those three years, from the opening crawl, the Rebels have been more or less on the run from the empire the entire time. He probably hasn't had all that much downtime away from his duties, as according to the opening crawl, he's been leading "a group of freedom fighters".
Speaking of which where does this timeframe of three years come from? I don't remember any lines mentioning it in the movie, nor does the opening crawl say it. Is this another thing that wasn't in the movie and therefore should not be counted? I've been googling but I can't seem to find an answer to where it's ever stated that Empire takes place 3 years after the battle of Yavin.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
What do you think doing missions would be doing? He kept the lightsaber with him the whole time and never used it in those three years? On the run but still doing missions.
https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a825727/star-wars-timeline-chronology-phantom-menace-to-last-jedi/
Here you go.
Yeah, I get that it's on the timeline. But does it say it's been three years in the movie? Like where/when was this three year thing established?
And he had his Lightsaber, yeah, but also so? It's not like he got into any laser sword fights. Storm Troopers don't even carry melee weapons. He likely used the saber as a tool more than a weapon, I doubt he was confident enough to use it to block laser fire except under most dire of circumstance which may never have came up.
The point is it's been three years and he's been leading a part of the rebellion we can't be certain if that means he's been mostly sitting in a command center, or getting into sword fights. We have no idea what his three years entailed (other than running from the empire) so we can't say for certain how much, if any, training has been done in regards to Jedi stuff. All we know is he ended the first movie not even knowing the force could do something he did in the next one. Where did he learn he could even attempt that? Not from Obi. Not from Vader. I guess we should just assume he met another Jedi/found a holocron/or somehow the force taught him how to do that?
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
You got Luke leading the freedom fighters. He's leading. He's likely not sitting around.
Also, there's an established timeline.
However, let's say it's not 3 years, because the movie doesn't say so.
What we can take away from the movie is it's more than the next day with one day training, like Rey got. :p
Admiral Ackbar and Mon Mothma lead, I can't see them getting into sword fights. Hell, Vader leads and he hardly does anything but stand around (that we see). Luke is definitely a hands on type, I'll grant you, but he was most likely piloting and shooting rather than getting the lightsaber in. The blaster is his go-to and remains that way till the end of Empire as shown by him sneaking around cloud city blaster out. It's not until he confronts Vader that he pulls his lightsaber as he likely realizes the blaster would be useless.
Rey, as far as we can tell from when it is day and night, spent at least 2 days and 2 nights training with Luke... Well. On the island with Luke anyway.
What we don't know, and what we can't tell from the movies, is how much of the force is instinctual. If we allow Luke's moving of his lightsaber to be instinctual then the same would apply to Rey and the rocks, though she had already moved a lightsaber in the first movie. The information for it likely coming from Kylo's mind or her own experience of Kylo using the force on her. She at least knew, knowing she had the same power as Kylo, such a thing could be attempted.
When you think about it this discussion is hella silly. Space magic (the force) works however the writers want it to work.
I still really want to know when it was first established that there's 3 years between A New Hope and Empire. Likely from some novelization, an official timeline, or somesuch.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
You two are still at it?
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Of course! It's fun, for me anyway.
Oh, and moving things with the force -is- instinctual. Just remembered a kid at the end of The Last Jedi moves a broom with the force. So Luke's off the hook for his lightsaber moving.
But still on the hook for his lightsaber play vs Vader in empire. Probably instinctual guided by the force mumbo jumbo there too.
Anyway. Rey's ability to fly, fight, and use the force powers she does are all explained in the movie. Luke less so, but they're all good movies (the OT and the ST anyway) so whatevs.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
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