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Days left in 2018...

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Kid Rad
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Days left in 2018...
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We had confirmation on

We had confirmation on Discord within the past 2 days from Doctor Tyche that they are still on track.

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Thanks for the update,

Thanks for the update, Calender Kid!

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Thanks for the update, Calender Kid!

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Very nice.

Very nice.

Puny Heroes.

Kid Rad
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We're now at 30 days, and no

We're now at 30 days, and no signs of a second chance..... :/

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Second chance comes after

Second chance comes after the release of the Character Creator. So probably next year.
The Devs. want to be able to show they have a viable product before asking for more money.

Hhmm, now that I've said that I wonder if there will actually be an ongoing Costume Contest? Be a great way to show that they do have something and entice people to pony up (as it were).

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StellarAgent wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:

Hhmm, now that I've said that I wonder if there will actually be an ongoing Costume Contest? Be a great way to show that they do have something and entice people to pony up (as it were).

I like this idea. We could have Devs' Favorite (voted on by the Devs) and Players' Favorite (voted on by the testers, or if we can post publicly, by all the community, but no voting for your entry or for your Dynamic Duo partner's entry ^_^ ) each week, then when enough Weekly Winners have accumulated we vote on the Quarterly Finalists, and so on...

If you think this sounds a bit like March Madness, I have but one thing to say (or, rather, quote, edited slightly for emphasis ^_^ ):

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Kid Rad
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StellarAgent wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:

Second chance comes after the release of the Character Creator. So probably next year.
The Devs. want to be able to show they have a viable product before asking for more money.

Hhmm, now that I've said that I wonder if there will actually be an ongoing Costume Contest? Be a great way to show that they do have something and entice people to pony up (as it were).

I was under the impression, from the FAQ, that they were still shooting for a fall 2018 release date. It's obviously past that point, and it did say subject to change, but last I heard that was still the general time frame they were shooting for.

I would think they could do a second chance and a beta release simultaneously, giving access to those who donate at a certain level, as well as all previous Kickstarter supporters. Then again, I'm known to assume more than is possible for this team, so you're probably right that they will take their sweet time on actually releasing anything resembling a playable game, even one that is completely lacking in content or zones. I will be surprised if they have a beta release by the end of 2019.

Just wanted to raise the question, since I was under the impression that the timeline they had laid out was still on the table.

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:

Second chance comes after the release of the Character Creator. So probably next year.
The Devs. want to be able to show they have a viable product before asking for more money.

I was under the impression, from the FAQ, that they were still shooting for a fall 2018 release date. It's obviously past that point, and it did say subject to change, but last I heard that was still the general time frame they were shooting for.

I would think they could do a second chance and a beta release simultaneously, giving access to those who donate at a certain level, as well as all previous Kickstarter supporters. Then again, I'm known to assume more than is possible for this team, so you're probably right that they will take their sweet time on actually releasing anything resembling a playable game, even one that is completely lacking in content or zones. I will be surprised if they have a beta release by the end of 2019.

Just wanted to raise the question, since I was under the impression that the timeline they had laid out was still on the table.

The generally understood timeline is that Issue #0 will be exposed to the original Kickstarter backers. For legal/contractual reasons those Kickstarter backers will be the only ones to initially gain access. Then later on, let's say (I am just throwing a random number out here), MWM integrates more features or bug fixes for Issue #0.01 and opens up a Second Chance fund raiser. At that point people can donate to gain access (this is what we have been led to believe, but no solid information has been released).

Long story short, if you (as a non-Kickstarter Backer) were hoping to get your hands on CoT before the end of the year, brace yourself for disappointment. You will have to wait until sometime in 2019.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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Just to interject here,

Just to interject here, technically it's still Fall, believe it or not until December 21st. So if anything we have until then to see what is to happen with the Chargen and/or the Second Chance before we start saying we won't be seeing anything CoT-related until 2019 without official Dev confirmation saying so.

"If I am to die in battle, Remember me for who I was and not what I've become..."

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Glitch404 wrote:
Glitch404 wrote:

Just to interject here, technically it's still Fall, believe it or not until December 21st. So if anything we have until then to see what is to happen with the Chargen and/or the Second Chance before we start saying we won't be seeing anything CoT-related until 2019 without official Dev confirmation saying so.

True (the Fall 2018 part). I have alluded to that before, but do you really and truly believe in your heart that MWM will expedite a Second Chance backer effort in the week+ that remains in the 2018 calendar year? This is the traditional month of business slow downs where everyone goes on vacation. Plus if there is going to be an iterative process of requesting/gathering/analyzing feedback then make code changes (not to mention more feature integrations), it will take time. Although the fact that MWM is an all volunteer effort, by virtue of probably being on "vacation" at some point in this time span, they might dedicate more time to CoT. So who knows?

I applaud you for your optimism Glitch404, I hope you are right. But I also want the WMW crew to take time to appreciate their families and spend time with them, so I am ok with waiting a bit longer.

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Glitch404 wrote:

Just to interject here, technically it's still Fall, believe it or not until December 21st. So if anything we have until then to see what is to happen with the Chargen and/or the Second Chance before we start saying we won't be seeing anything CoT-related until 2019 without official Dev confirmation saying so.

True (the Fall 2018 part). I have alluded to that before, but do you really and truly believe in your heart that MWM will expedite a Second Chance backer effort in the week+ that remains in the 2018 calendar year? This is the traditional month of business slow downs where everyone goes on vacation. Plus if there is going to be an iterative process of requesting/gathering/analyzing feedback then make code changes (not to mention more feature integrations), it will take time. Although the fact that MWM is an all volunteer effort, by virtue of probably being on "vacation" at some point in this time span, they might dedicate more time to CoT. So who knows?

I applaud you for your optimism Glitch404, I hope you are right. But I also want the WMW crew to take time to appreciate their families and spend time with them, so I am ok with waiting a bit longer.

I might sound crazy for thinking this, but I think it's possible for MWM to expedite a Second Chance backer in the developing weeks. Perhaps I am too much of an optimist but given MWM's track record of being very secretive due to their abidance to an NDA and then releasing some pieces of media sometime after, for all we know they could very well be doing internal (or external? I don't know the tech lingo) tests with the Chargen right as we speak and don't even know it. I just try to keep an open mind when it comes to this kind of stuff (which can sometimes be bad).

While I do know that December is the month when vacations are being planned and money is being spent like crazy, I can see myself waiting till 2019 if-push-comes-to-shove and the Second Chance doesn't see a launch sometime in the developing weeks. I think the main question that should be asked (and probably has and I'm just not aware of it) is how long will the Second Chance be projected to run for when it does see it's eventual release? If releases in December-January then they should at least give it till at least April-May until it likely reaches its slated goal, depending on what the target goal intends to be. Anyway, I'm not wanting the Devs to rush with this either and I do hope that they take their time, I'm mostly just saying another pushback may just be the final nail in the coffin to make people want to abandon this game (if they haven't already). Just take a look at the comments on their original Kickstarter. There's so many people wanting to sue MWM because they didn't deliver on an reward that was projected for delivery in 2015, despite that the Kickstarter was launched in 2013.

"If I am to die in battle, Remember me for who I was and not what I've become..."

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And this is why seasons

And this is why seasons should be defined BETWEEN equinoxes and solstices, not on them: December 21st is well into winter, June 21st is well into summer. I guess the equinoxes are a bit better: September is early-mid fall and march is fairly early in spring.

Though I live in the midwest where equinox seasons last 15 min a piece :p

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I live in Virginia: Autumnal

I live in Virginia: Autumnal Equinox is still pretty much Summer for us.

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And I live in the Great White

And I live in the Great White North where Fall lasts for a week or two (if you're lucky), and Winter tends to dominate Spring. Its a bad weather situation all around up here.
I know and use the calendar definitions for the seasons, as inaccurate (weather-wise) as they may be. But I don't define my livelihood around it. Just the weather.

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Glitch404 wrote:
Glitch404 wrote:

I think the main question that should be asked (and probably has and I'm just not aware of it) is how long will the Second Chance be projected to run for when it does see it's eventual release? If releases in December-January then they should at least give it till at least April-May until it likely reaches its slated goal, depending on what the target goal intends to be.

I asked that question before a while ago (sorry I can't remember which thread) and the plan is for it to run up until Issue #1. I'm sure they have goals they want to hit, but since they are funding from their own platform there is no reason for them to end it before the launch of Issue #1. This will also allow anyone new, even a month before Issue #1 release, to donate and get Issue #0.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Still hope Second Chance isn

Still hope Second Chance isn't TOOOO far after Issue 0.

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From what I've read, it looks

From what I've read, it looks like some of the original KS backers won't even have access this year- they want to give access in waves, starting with a small group.

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Check the KS, damn! 5000

Check the KS, damn! 5000 original backers!

Yeah 5000 at once might be a bit much :p

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Check the KS, damn! 5000 original backers!

Yeah 5000 at once might be a bit much :p

Maybe. Maybe not. They don't call 'em "stress tests" for nothing.

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No there Will be access by

No there Will be access by waves ^^ not all access ar once

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warlocc wrote:
warlocc wrote:
desviper wrote:

Check the KS, damn! 5000 original backers!

Yeah 5000 at once might be a bit much :p

Maybe. Maybe not. They don't call 'em "stress tests" for nothing.

That's true. However, even stress tests are normally done in waves. It's like a person suffered from burnout and is now rehabilitating. At first they are going to work around 20%, then 40%, etc (this is also called a stress test)

Maybe they will take the first 1000 - 1500 in, then 2000 - 2500. Jump to a bigger range 3500 - 5000
And those ranges might be tested again in smaller waves to ensure the stability of the servers.

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Yeah, we already know it's

Yeah, we already know it's gonna be waves. I'm just curious about the numbers.

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I'm not a backer sadly.

I'm not a backer sadly. However, I hope it will be around 1000. So it will go smoothly and quickly.

Btw, are those videos from AmIEvil (on his YouTube channel) from the Alpha?

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I'm perfectly fine with the

I'm perfectly fine with the second chance being sometime in 2019 - it makes sense to stagger the access to the game with groups of KS Backers first in a controlled manner before opening it up to the "wild west". Plus it will give me time to put together my new PC lol. MWM just has to be clear about their Issue 0+ plans when they announce them - and make it an official announcement so it's easy for us fans to point to (as opposed to mentioning it in a random board post and having it get buried). Exact dates may be unrealistic (it is a rolling alpha/beta after all) but their plans going forward should be clearly communicated.

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Unfortunately its still just

Unfortunately its still just speculation on our part. We know next to nothing about their plans for how big of groups to start with or size of groups moving forward, or timelines, or anything else relating to Issue #0 and beyond. We only know their starting with a small group because of a response to a Facebook comment. We are less than 3 weeks left in the Fall 2018 timeline and we still know nothing more than we did a year ago. If they still arent even confident enough to give a firm date...I doubt it's going to happen.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Just to be fair to MWM

Just to be fair to MWM (because I tend to complain when they post important info on other sites and not here) they did say this in the last update: 'We do still intend to give the first wave of backers access to it before end of year.'

So that does indicate that it won't be everyone, and that hopefully it will be before the end of the year, but not guaranteed.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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It's hard for MWM to give

It's hard for MWM to give dates. As it is said on facebook (https://www.facebook.com/CityOfTitansmmo/posts/1150253825150251?comment_id=1150831641759136&reply_comment_id=1151557421686558) it's difficult to put dates with volunteers which work as they can.
it will be probably more possible once the second chance is done since the goal is to hire people in a full time job.

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Yes, in general MWM is going

Yes, in general MWM is going to have a hard time with specific dates. But being this close to the supposed release with no date is not reassuring. I dont think many are expecting an Issue #1 release date...but being within 3 weeks of Issue #0 people look at those details. I don't really care as I'm not a KS backer so I wont be getting access anyway...I mention this for the communication aspect. If there is any worry it's for their image...potential new fans/players that come by these forums are going to be lost. They will find the big stuff, like their banner on FB showing "FALL 2018", so if they come to the website and theres nothing...doesnt look good. Right now communication with fans is critical. Making sure banners are always up-to-date and accurate, making sure all important information is easily accessible, making sure expectations are updated honestly and frequently...etc.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Kuraikari wrote:
Kuraikari wrote:

Btw, are those videos from AmIEvil (on his YouTube channel) from the Alpha?

Pre-alpha if I remember correctly. Mostly made to test/show capabilities and possibilities.

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StellarAgent wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:
Kuraikari wrote:

Btw, are those videos from AmIEvil (on his YouTube channel) from the Alpha?

Pre-alpha if I remember correctly. Mostly made to test/show capabilities and possibilities.

That's my recollection as well. They are not to be considered official.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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StellarAgent wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:
Kuraikari wrote:

Btw, are those videos from AmIEvil (on his YouTube channel) from the Alpha?

Pre-alpha if I remember correctly. Mostly made to test/show capabilities and possibilities.

The animations were smooth. I liked the effects and the mechanics seem good.
If they icons are still that large, then I hope we have the ability to modify the UI to some extent.
And a toggle for the chat window, or make more transparent. It really eats up a lot of space.

But well, I guess there were some changes, as the newest video is 7 months old.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Yes, in general MWM is going to have a hard time with specific dates. But being this close to the supposed release with no date is not reassuring. I dont think many are expecting an Issue #1 release date...but being within 3 weeks of Issue #0 people look at those details. I don't really care as I'm not a KS backer so I wont be getting access anyway...I mention this for the communication aspect. If there is any worry it's for their image...potential new fans/players that come by these forums are going to be lost. They will find the big stuff, like their banner on FB showing "FALL 2018", so if they come to the website and theres nothing...doesnt look good. Right now communication with fans is critical. Making sure banners are always up-to-date and accurate, making sure all important information is easily accessible, making sure expectations are updated honestly and frequently...etc.

This is the main point of this thread. Being volunteers is really no excuse for poor communication, especially if the plan is to eventually transition out of being volunteers. It's no big deal if deadlines that have been set are not met, but at least let people know, what is happening when, or what is not happening when. This whole stage of development, whether they realize it or not, is essentially a job interview for them. If they do well, they will land the job and get the support the need. If not, they will end up having wasted a lot of time and effort (and money for those who supported them). I know that seems dramatic, but if they don't ante up and start acting like a professional development team in the near future, I find it hard to see how they will ever become one.

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Kuraikari wrote:
Kuraikari wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:
Kuraikari wrote:

Btw, are those videos from AmIEvil (on his YouTube channel) from the Alpha?

Pre-alpha if I remember correctly. Mostly made to test/show capabilities and possibilities.

The animations were smooth. I liked the effects and the mechanics seem good.
If they icons are still that large, then I hope we have the ability to modify the UI to some extent.
And a toggle for the chat window, or make more transparent. It really eats up a lot of space.

But well, I guess there were some changes, as the newest video is 7 months old.

That isn’t our UI at all. As said, the videos were only for testing purposes - think prototyping.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Kuraikari wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:
Kuraikari wrote:

Btw, are those videos from AmIEvil (on his YouTube channel) from the Alpha?

Pre-alpha if I remember correctly. Mostly made to test/show capabilities and possibilities.

The animations were smooth. I liked the effects and the mechanics seem good.
If they icons are still that large, then I hope we have the ability to modify the UI to some extent.
And a toggle for the chat window, or make more transparent. It really eats up a lot of space.

But well, I guess there were some changes, as the newest video is 7 months old.

That isn’t our UI at all. As said, the videos were only for testing purposes - think prototyping.

Thanks! That's great to hear :)
(I liked the minimap though) What are your going to do about the PR? Some online advertisement etc? I mean after the release of Issue #0. You could need it for the second chance.
Are people allowed to do Screenshots and recording? I think it would be also a good way to show outsiders and potential players this game.

I might be really new, but I'm going to back it anyways, as I love the idea and like how you are in contact with the people here.

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

It's no big deal if deadlines that have been set are not met, but at least let people know, what is happening when, or what is not happening when.

Yes, please. I'd say the communication is more important than whether a deadline is met.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Yes, please. I'd say the communication is more important than whether a deadline is met.

Seconded. I know there must be so much effort placed on the game itself, but I hope the community doesn't get put on the back burner. I know it's a volunteer project so we're at the mercy of the time commitment of those involved, but it would be nice to be looped into the details of how that looks.

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Pearly wrote:
Pearly wrote:

Seconded. I know there must be so much effort placed on the game itself, but I hope the community doesn't get put on the back burner. I know it's a volunteer project so we're at the mercy of the time commitment of those involved, but it would be nice to be looped into the details of how that looks.

Agreed. We know here and there some things. But it would help to see some more details. We saw some parts of the Avatar Builder, but what about the UI? Maybe even some sound effects used or voice lines recorded to tease us. Playing with some other features. They don't need to reveal like the whole thing. However, they could show us bits of things never mentioned.
Every good movie and book has this. It's called foreshadowing.

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some music has been showed up

some music has been showed up and dev asked us which UI style we would like ^^ They showed some things, especially during the interview of idon'tremembertheyoutubechannel video :)

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

some music has been showed up and dev asked us which UI style we would like ^^ They showed some things, especially during the interview of idon'tremembertheyoutubechannel video :)

Ah darn it... Maybe I will find it somewhere :)

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maybe if you search for

maybe if you search for "musique" or "interface" or "UI" on Titanscity.com you'll find some things :p

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

maybe if you search for "musique" or "interface" or "UI" on Titanscity.com you'll find some things :p

Your website is great!
Even though my French is rusty, I still could understand the texts. (Made myself proud :D)
Found the music easily and the UI as well *thumbs up*

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Kuraikari wrote:
Kuraikari wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

some music has been showed up and dev asked us which UI style we would like ^^ They showed some things, especially during the interview of idon'tremembertheyoutubechannel video :)

Ah darn it... Maybe I will find it somewhere :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRcYVdv1mG4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz0vRobo3dU

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darnstrong wrote:
darnstrong wrote:
Kuraikari wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

some music has been showed up and dev asked us which UI style we would like ^^ They showed some things, especially during the interview of idon'tremembertheyoutubechannel video :)

Ah darn it... Maybe I will find it somewhere :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRcYVdv1mG4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz0vRobo3dU

Ah! I summoned you! :p
Thanks for posting the links!

I really love the pace it's not too slow and not too fast. Good balanced sound and on my headphones it's perfect.

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It's definitely time for some

It's definitely time for some real communication. It's okay to not make a deadline- provided you explain why.

But we're in December now. If we don't start seeing more concrete info, confidence will be shaken and good luck getting investors or customers at that point.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Yes, in general MWM is going to have a hard time with specific dates. But being this close to the supposed release with no date is not reassuring. I dont think many are expecting an Issue #1 release date...but being within 3 weeks of Issue #0 people look at those details. I don't really care as I'm not a KS backer so I wont be getting access anyway...I mention this for the communication aspect. If there is any worry it's for their image...potential new fans/players that come by these forums are going to be lost. They will find the big stuff, like their banner on FB showing "FALL 2018", so if they come to the website and theres nothing...doesnt look good. Right now communication with fans is critical. Making sure banners are always up-to-date and accurate, making sure all important information is easily accessible, making sure expectations are updated honestly and frequently...etc.

Since it seems that people want some information, I will give you some.

We all know that the devs have access to the AB now. As of Friday, we were on version 6. Version 5 was passed along on the 21st. Version 4 was on the 19th. Version 3 was around the 15th.

We're catching a lot of bugs, and still getting a lot of files together. I am not part of tech, so I don't have all the details, but obviously they are working as fast as they possibly can. Since we're getting such major changes every few days, we're still not fully clear on when it will be stable enough to share with more people. As soon as it is deemed to be stable enough that we're not going to be making a new version within a week, That's probably when we will send it out. We don't want to do that too early because it can make things so much worse so fast.

Once again, I'm not part of tech, so I cannot speak on what their plan is, but this is what is reasonable to me. As soon as we can, we will. Please be patient. This is a rough time of year for many people, us included, and we want to get this to everyone as soon as we can, but we don't want it to break as soon as we do.

I hope this clears up some concerns.
Once again, I'm not part of tech and cannot speak for them, this is merely my supposition based on my knowledge of how we operate, provided here only keep people hoping for more without setting the place afire.

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OTOH, we still have almost

OTOH, we still have almost three weeks of Fall 2018 left. Four weeks of Fourth Quarter 2018. Until one or the other of those Estimated Time of Release slides past us, I can forgive a lack of communication in favor of trying to meet the ETR.

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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Yes, in general MWM is going to have a hard time with specific dates. But being this close to the supposed release with no date is not reassuring. I dont think many are expecting an Issue #1 release date...but being within 3 weeks of Issue #0 people look at those details. I don't really care as I'm not a KS backer so I wont be getting access anyway...I mention this for the communication aspect. If there is any worry it's for their image...potential new fans/players that come by these forums are going to be lost. They will find the big stuff, like their banner on FB showing "FALL 2018", so if they come to the website and theres nothing...doesnt look good. Right now communication with fans is critical. Making sure banners are always up-to-date and accurate, making sure all important information is easily accessible, making sure expectations are updated honestly and frequently...etc.

Since it seems that people want some information, I will give you some.

We all know that the devs have access to the AB now. As of Friday, we were on version 6. Version 5 was passed along on the 21st. Version 4 was on the 19th. Version 3 was around the 15th.

We're catching a lot of bugs, and still getting a lot of files together. I am not part of tech, so I don't have all the details, but obviously they are working as fast as they possibly can. Since we're getting such major changes every few days, we're still not fully clear on when it will be stable enough to share with more people. As soon as it is deemed to be stable enough that we're not going to be making a new version within a week, That's probably when we will send it out. We don't want to do that too early because it can make things so much worse so fast.

Once again, I'm not part of tech, so I cannot speak on what their plan is, but this is what is reasonable to me. As soon as we can, we will. Please be patient. This is a rough time of year for many people, us included, and we want to get this to everyone as soon as we can, but we don't want it to break as soon as we do.

I hope this clears up some concerns.
Once again, I'm not part of tech and cannot speak for them, this is merely my supposition based on my knowledge of how we operate, provided here only keep people hoping for more without setting the place afire.

Thank you for that information. It lays to rest many of my concerns as to where we are and why we hadnt heard anything. I will go back to lurking and waiting for good news.

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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

Since it seems that people want some information, I will give you some.

Thank you for the information. Any insight into the inner workings is appreciated.

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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Yes, in general MWM is going to have a hard time with specific dates. But being this close to the supposed release with no date is not reassuring. I dont think many are expecting an Issue #1 release date...but being within 3 weeks of Issue #0 people look at those details. I don't really care as I'm not a KS backer so I wont be getting access anyway...I mention this for the communication aspect. If there is any worry it's for their image...potential new fans/players that come by these forums are going to be lost. They will find the big stuff, like their banner on FB showing "FALL 2018", so if they come to the website and theres nothing...doesnt look good. Right now communication with fans is critical. Making sure banners are always up-to-date and accurate, making sure all important information is easily accessible, making sure expectations are updated honestly and frequently...etc.

Since it seems that people want some information, I will give you some.

We all know that the devs have access to the AB now. As of Friday, we were on version 6. Version 5 was passed along on the 21st. Version 4 was on the 19th. Version 3 was around the 15th.

We're catching a lot of bugs, and still getting a lot of files together. I am not part of tech, so I don't have all the details, but obviously they are working as fast as they possibly can. Since we're getting such major changes every few days, we're still not fully clear on when it will be stable enough to share with more people. As soon as it is deemed to be stable enough that we're not going to be making a new version within a week, That's probably when we will send it out. We don't want to do that too early because it can make things so much worse so fast.

Once again, I'm not part of tech, so I cannot speak on what their plan is, but this is what is reasonable to me. As soon as we can, we will. Please be patient. This is a rough time of year for many people, us included, and we want to get this to everyone as soon as we can, but we don't want it to break as soon as we do.

I hope this clears up some concerns.
Once again, I'm not part of tech and cannot speak for them, this is merely my supposition based on my knowledge of how we operate, provided here only keep people hoping for more without setting the place afire.

That's perfect, a good answer. Reasonable. Like I said, missing a date is fine. Even not having a date is okay, just let us know why and what's going on. It builds trust and makes the general public more likely to invest.

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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Yes, in general MWM is going to have a hard time with specific dates. But being this close to the supposed release with no date is not reassuring. I dont think many are expecting an Issue #1 release date...but being within 3 weeks of Issue #0 people look at those details. I don't really care as I'm not a KS backer so I wont be getting access anyway...I mention this for the communication aspect. If there is any worry it's for their image...potential new fans/players that come by these forums are going to be lost. They will find the big stuff, like their banner on FB showing "FALL 2018", so if they come to the website and theres nothing...doesnt look good. Right now communication with fans is critical. Making sure banners are always up-to-date and accurate, making sure all important information is easily accessible, making sure expectations are updated honestly and frequently...etc.

Since it seems that people want some information, I will give you some.

We all know that the devs have access to the AB now. As of Friday, we were on version 6. Version 5 was passed along on the 21st. Version 4 was on the 19th. Version 3 was around the 15th.

We're catching a lot of bugs, and still getting a lot of files together. I am not part of tech, so I don't have all the details, but obviously they are working as fast as they possibly can. Since we're getting such major changes every few days, we're still not fully clear on when it will be stable enough to share with more people. As soon as it is deemed to be stable enough that we're not going to be making a new version within a week, That's probably when we will send it out. We don't want to do that too early because it can make things so much worse so fast.

Once again, I'm not part of tech, so I cannot speak on what their plan is, but this is what is reasonable to me. As soon as we can, we will. Please be patient. This is a rough time of year for many people, us included, and we want to get this to everyone as soon as we can, but we don't want it to break as soon as we do.

I hope this clears up some concerns.
Once again, I'm not part of tech and cannot speak for them, this is merely my supposition based on my knowledge of how we operate, provided here only keep people hoping for more without setting the place afire.

Thanks for the info. It would perhaps be good when an update of any sort is released, to put a small note about where things are in the lead up to release. Especially with that soft deadline approaching. For example, when the costume contest update was posted, a very condensed version of what you just said could have been added at the end, saying that you are just starting to work on the 5th version, and are still shooting for release before the end of the year, or that due to the bug smashing, the release date will be pushed back to sometime in early 2019. Either way, it is a small easy thing to do to just give a very brief statement that gives insight into where things are. I assume that there is some knowledge by someone of whether the proposed deadlines will be met or not. Please share what you know when you know it.

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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

Since it seems that people want some information, I will give you some.

Surely you jest.

ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

We all know that the devs have access to the AB now. As of Friday, we were on version 6. Version 5 was passed along on the 21st. Version 4 was on the 19th. Version 3 was around the 15th.

We're catching a lot of bugs, and still getting a lot of files together. I am not part of tech, so I don't have all the details, but obviously they are working as fast as they possibly can. Since we're getting such major changes every few days, we're still not fully clear on when it will be stable enough to share with more people. As soon as it is deemed to be stable enough that we're not going to be making a new version within a week, That's probably when we will send it out. We don't want to do that too early because it can make things so much worse so fast.

Once again, I'm not part of tech, so I cannot speak on what their plan is, but this is what is reasonable to me. As soon as we can, we will. Please be patient. This is a rough time of year for many people, us included, and we want to get this to everyone as soon as we can, but we don't want it to break as soon as we do.

I hope this clears up some concerns.
Once again, I'm not part of tech and cannot speak for them, this is merely my supposition based on my knowledge of how we operate, provided here only keep people hoping for more without setting the place afire.

Yea, this just makes me think even more that Issue #0 is not going to release in Fall 2018. This far in and still uncertain on when it will be ready to send out. I really think you guys are shooting yourself in the foot by waiting this long and still keeping peoples expectations up. No one expects or wants the team to be stressed about it during the holidays or to be taking time away from their families. I really, REALLY, think there should have been an announcement, nay...an entire update, pushing it back to Winter 2019 a few months ago. But late is better than never I guess. We know you're doing your best and it takes time and every other reason why it isn't out...that's exactly why it needs to be pushed back and everyone's expectations need to be set and they need to be crystal clear.

There has been a lot of discussion in various posts about Issue #0 and people, I daresay the majority of fans, are expecting a chargen with a chat zone to run around in this year. If it still isn't certain to the dev team that that can happen...you've waited too long to announce a delay. And now that we know even if it is finished in time it is only a small group of people getting in...there are a LOT of people expecting to have in their hands what MWM has been touting for over a year, FALL 2018 Issue #0. And they won't.

Everyone wants it to succeed, perhaps the devs more than most fans given their commitment to it as volunteers for years. For better or worse, I'd wager fans expectations are higher than what the team would have them be. But there has been so little official information that it's not their fault for where their expectations are. There really should have been an update only on Issue #0 already since it hasn't been delayed.

My 2 cents.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Has the phrase "issue #0"

Has the phrase "issue #0" ever been uttered in an official update? How about we start there, lol.

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I like the policy of "we've

I like the policy of "we've gone x time without a major setback" for the AB. It's much less arbitrary and a bit more crunch proof.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Yea, this just makes me think even more that Issue #0 is not going to release in Fall 2018. This far in and still uncertain on when it will be ready to send out. I really think you guys are shooting yourself in the foot by waiting this long and still keeping peoples expectations up. No one expects or wants the team to be stressed about it during the holidays or to be taking time away from their families. I really, REALLY, think there should have been an announcement, nay...an entire update, pushing it back to Winter 2019 a few months ago. But late is better than never I guess. We know you're doing your best and it takes time and every other reason why it isn't out...that's exactly why it needs to be pushed back and everyone's expectations need to be set and they need to be crystal clear.

There has been a lot of discussion in various posts about Issue #0 and people, I daresay the majority of fans, are expecting a chargen with a chat zone to run around in this year. If it still isn't certain to the dev team that that can happen...you've waited too long to announce a delay. And now that we know even if it is finished in time it is only a small group of people getting in...there are a LOT of people expecting to have in their hands what MWM has been touting for over a year, FALL 2018 Issue #0. And they won't.

Everyone wants it to succeed, perhaps the devs more than most fans given their commitment to it as volunteers for years. For better or worse, I'd wager fans expectations are higher than what the team would have them be. But there has been so little official information that it's not their fault for where their expectations are. There really should have been an update only on Issue #0 already since it hasn't been delayed.

My 2 cents.

This isn't wrong. This whole policy of "don't share anything until there's something to share" is starting to do more harm than good.

A LOT of backers thought they'd be in Issue #0 by the end of 2018 because that's all that was given. Now that we're finding out more, mere weeks before 2018 comes to a close... The reaction to this news is going to be worse than if things had been pushed back to 2019, definitely.

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Has the phrase "issue #0" ever been uttered in an official update? How about we start there, lol.

We mentioned it at the bottom of this update most recently.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Has the phrase "issue #0" ever been uttered in an official update? How about we start there, lol.

We mentioned it at the bottom of this update most recently.

Fair enough. I'm sure you know what I'm gonna say. It says right in the same sentence that things are still on track for the end of the year for issue #0 release to backers. So if things have changed, that should be made known. As DC said, no one wants anyone to be stressed at this time of year. Stuff happens, and it is totally understandable if that stuff is communicated. Much less so if it isn't.

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Has the phrase "issue #0" ever been uttered in an official update? How about we start there, lol.

We mentioned it at the bottom of this update most recently.

Fair enough. I'm sure you know what I'm gonna say. It says right in the same sentence that things are still on track for the end of the year for issue #0 release to backers. So if things have changed, that should be made known. As DC said, no one wants anyone to be stressed at this time of year. Stuff happens, and it is totally understandable if that stuff is communicated. Much less so if it isn't.

If being the operative word.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Has the phrase "issue #0" ever been uttered in an official update? How about we start there, lol.

We mentioned it at the bottom of this update most recently.

Fair enough. I'm sure you know what I'm gonna say. It says right in the same sentence that things are still on track for the end of the year for issue #0 release to backers. So if things have changed, that should be made known. As DC said, no one wants anyone to be stressed at this time of year. Stuff happens, and it is totally understandable if that stuff is communicated. Much less so if it isn't.

If being the operative word.

Still gotta be cryptic, huh?

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Has the phrase "issue #0" ever been uttered in an official update? How about we start there, lol.

We mentioned it at the bottom of this update most recently.

Fair enough. I'm sure you know what I'm gonna say. It says right in the same sentence that things are still on track for the end of the year for issue #0 release to backers. So if things have changed, that should be made known. As DC said, no one wants anyone to be stressed at this time of year. Stuff happens, and it is totally understandable if that stuff is communicated. Much less so if it isn't.

If being the operative word.

Another fair point, but back to the original post of this thread, time is ticking. I think that most people would argue that the deadline of fall 2018 has already been missed. Yes *technically* if you get it out by the equinox, you will still have gotten it out in fall 2018. But to paraphrase John Mullaney, it's like the kid who says it's technically tomorrow the second it hits midnight. Like yea, ok, sure, but still not really. Most people think of fall 2018 to be by the end of November.

If the date is now "the end of 2018", that's fine, but several locations still have fall 2018 listed as the tentative date, and based on the status update given above, I will be surprised if even the end of the year is met. Again, totally nothing wrong with that, but it's better to be honest than to set expectations that are not able to be met. If you are totally certain you will meet those expectations, then by all means, disregard this thread.

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It's not that cryptic, it
warlocc wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

If being the operative word.

Still gotta be cryptic, huh?

It's not that cryptic, it means that for now they still think they can make it in time.

Good for us, I can't wait! I need it nooow :D

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The point of Conundrum's post

The point of Conundrum's post was to explain the rapidity of changes that are being made to the code right now (and that sorta explains why nothing has been communicated).
It is good that they are integrating more features and fixing bugs. However, it is also not great that turnover is happening this close to a projected release date. There needs to be some bake time to stabilize the build (to a certain degree of reliability) before it gets released to whatever batch of KS backers. No one would be happy if the first "release" of the game is buggy (and by that I mean you can definitely identify where portions of the code do not exist) or it crashes while accessing commonly used features.

Based on my experience as a tester and the information that MWM has provided, I think it could be possible to release Issue #0 as intended (provided they have their delivery/update mechanism sorted out). The fact that this is a volunteer effort combined with the holiday season timing, I believe reaching this goal is quite difficult. If it doesn't happen by "fall 2018", it should happen in short order. Quibbling over a few days or a couple weeks under these conditions doesn't really mean anything. The important part right now is what MWM is communicating and how they are communicating it.

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warlocc wrote:
warlocc wrote:

Still gotta be cryptic, huh?

That is all we can expect, unfortunately. They are opposed to clear, straight-forward answers.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

The point of Conundrum's post was to explain the rapidity of changes that are being made to the code right now (and that sorta explains why nothing has been communicated).
It is good that they are integrating more features and fixing bugs. However, it is also not great that turnover is happening this close to a projected release date. There needs to be some bake time to stabilize the build (to a certain degree of reliability) before it gets released to whatever batch of KS backers. No one would be happy if the first "release" of the game is buggy (and by that I mean you can definitely identify where portions of the code do not exist) or it crashes while accessing commonly used features.

Based on my experience as a tester and the information that MWM has provided, I think it could be possible to release Issue #0 as intended (provided they have their delivery/update mechanism sorted out). The fact that this is a volunteer effort combined with the holiday season timing, I believe reaching this goal is quite difficult. If it doesn't happen by "fall 2018", it should happen in short order. Quibbling over a few days or a couple weeks under these conditions doesn't really mean anything. The important part right now is what MWM is communicating and how they are communicating it.

This. I don't care when it comes out, but I do care to know when it is or isn't coming out. The only reason the timeline is relevant here is because it is the expectation that has been set. So the only thing we can assume is that they are on track, and hope for the best. I wish we had something more solid than a hope and a prayer though.

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ThunderCAP wrote:
ThunderCAP wrote:
warlocc wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

If being the operative word.

Still gotta be cryptic, huh?

It's not that cryptic, it means that for now they still think they can make it in time.

Good for us, I can't wait! I need it nooow :D

Yeah, no. It's still pretty cryptic. They think they can make it in time? Make what in time? Issue 0 to all backers? A couple backers having access to the patcher? A couple of these so called waves having access? What?

Planet10 wrote:

The point of Conundrum's post was to explain the rapidity of changes that are being made to the code right now (and that sorta explains why nothing has been communicated).
It is good that they are integrating more features and fixing bugs. However, it is also not great that turnover is happening this close to a projected release date. There needs to be some bake time to stabilize the build (to a certain degree of reliability) before it gets released to whatever batch of KS backers. No one would be happy if the first "release" of the game is buggy (and by that I mean you can definitely identify where portions of the code do not exist) or it crashes while accessing commonly used features.

Based on my experience as a tester and the information that MWM has provided, I think it could be possible to release Issue #0 as intended (provided they have their delivery/update mechanism sorted out). The fact that this is a volunteer effort combined with the holiday season timing, I believe reaching this goal is quite difficult. If it doesn't happen by "fall 2018", it should happen in short order. Quibbling over a few days or a couple weeks under these conditions doesn't really mean anything. The important part right now is what MWM is communicating and how they are communicating it.

Doesn't seem like anybody's quibbling over the date, though. I think we're all good and understand that it's the holidays and these are volunteers. Most everyone here is just perplexed as to why there's still no concrete information when we're right on top of the deadline. Some of the backers have put in some serious money into this, it's a fair thing to be asking.

Dark Cleric wrote:
warlocc wrote:

Still gotta be cryptic, huh?

That is all we can expect, unfortunately. They are opposed to clear, straight-forward answers.

Glad it's not just me saying this.

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I'm astonished at the

I'm astonished at the regularly negative posts by those whose investment literally amounts to little more than hope. Fall has ended on Dec. 21st since well before I was born so to any that fail to think of it that way, well there really isn't any good reason for this. As for the apparent lack of communication, MWM's communication is far better than several companies that have products available in a wide variety of markets. What I feel I am hearing are people that don't like that they aren't in the developers inner circle and whether they realize it or not are doing their part to discourage the general masses already in support of the development.

Personally, I prefer the single post MWM makes every week or two about progress of whatever sort than I do any posts by the naysayers which are far more regularly posted. If hope is all you have invested you really don't have anything to lose by them being right or wrong about release dates or when they communicate about them. As far as professionalism is concerned, I find the posts of the devs far more professional than the vast majority of supporter posts even the most elegantly written ones.

I sincerely hope they make the end of Fall 2018 as they have declared but if they don't I'm okay with it and frankly as long as I've waited I don't mind not knowing until the last minute either way. They haven't even begun to advertise this as anything marketable anytime soon let alone as a viable game to the masses. So the Fall 2018 is very much an internal target date such that, the only people waiting and hoping for any form of release are the devs and the supporters (all of us), not the masses.

We are far from enough of a crowd to keep this alive alone as we well know. Ergo, we are not a crowd that should require a "play by play" of the progress. When they achieved such a point, then yes a play by play will be necessary. Those who think this endeavor (COT) is already at such a point misunderstand the situation. Those that feel failing to communicate more regularly at this time to our group somehow lacks professionalism have overestimated the level of obligation on the developers part. Were they centralized that might be different, maybe... and then only because communication within MWM would be at least somewhat easier.

Humility and faith are cornerstones to hope. I look forward to whatever may come.

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I just hope that the devs

I just hope that the devs manage to swing some good cookies for launch. This ship goes nowhere without cookies.

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rookslide wrote:
rookslide wrote:

Fall has ended on Dec. 21st since well before I was born

That's exactly what i thought xD Fall is not over yet :)

And even if the Issue #0 was already released, all the backers will not have access the beta in the same time so... We should prepare ourselves to read some "I blame MWM 'cause i don't have access to the beta yet but some have it ! It's not fair", even if MWM had said they'ill release by waves ^^

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Sorry for being coy. I didn’t

Sorry for being coy. I didn’t mean it to come off as ambivalent toward the issue. However [b]IF[/] was the operative word in the statement I quoted.

If we do end up behind schedule, I would be upset if we didn’t let people know considering the high expectations people have right now.

AFAIK, we are still on schedule. For Issue 0. Our AB team has been working hard to get the AB ready for the Beta version of the costume portion. Our level design team is working hard on getting everything set up for the initial map, fixing bugs we have come across, changing some things, etc. We even had some recent UI changes / updates.

Not every backer will get immediate access. invites will be done in waves (groups) to ensure we can handle the influx of users on the server appropriately, take feed back in a consumable manner, and respond to that feedback in appropriate time (this may not be directly but responding by fixing / changing what is necessary).

I’ve been giving power values a run over and even set myself back a day because I noticed that a series of sets had old values from before we had made changes to some of the math is handled. I don’t know how I missed some of these powers but I’m sure glad I decided to give them another pass as some of the values would have been...not good.

I took time from spending the afternoon wirh my bible study group, and later my family, to try can catch up on my work.

I hope this isnt too cryptic for anyone.


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I sensed a bit of bitterness

I sensed a bit of bitterness in the end, totally deserved :/

I have to ask, do backers get access from highest paid to least paid? That's how I'd do it, but random would also be fair.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

I have to ask, do backers get access from highest paid to least paid? That's how I'd do it, but random would also be fair.

Another way would be by backer number, excluding those who didn't get at or above the "Construction Crew" tier. Which puts me at about 3,436th or so ^_^ So I'm really hoping it's one of desviper's ways, and not another way.

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To be fair I think it should

To be fair I think it should be random.

Also, if they want 100 people (just a number I plucked from the air to make the math easier), they will probably invite 105/110, as not all invites will be answered right away.

The initial number invited will be low to enable testing of stability of the launcher/patcher. Each subsequent "wave" will be progressively larger.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

AFAIK, we are still on schedule. For Issue 0. Our AB team has been working hard to get the AB ready for the Beta version of the costume portion. Our level design team is working hard on getting everything set up for the initial map, fixing bugs we have come across, changing some things, etc. We even had some recent UI changes / updates.

Not every backer will get immediate access. invites will be done in waves (groups) to ensure we can handle the influx of users on the server appropriately, take feed back in a consumable manner, and respond to that feedback in appropriate time (this may not be directly but responding by fixing / changing what is necessary).

I’ve been giving power values a run over and even set myself back a day because I noticed that a series of sets had old values from before we had made changes to some of the math is handled. I don’t know how I missed some of these powers but I’m sure glad I decided to give them another pass as some of the values would have been...not good.

Nice to know what's going on. There's definitely going to be clamoring to get in on the early waves. Random and/or highest paying is probably most fair.
That said...

Tannim222 wrote:

I took time from spending the afternoon wirh my bible study group, and later my family, to try can catch up on my work.

Personally, I say family comes first, game comes second. I guarantee if a deadline is missed, and you guys came out and said "Hey, we're not going to make X day/week/month/whatever, we're spending some time with our families for the holidays", no one's going to give you a hard time. Most everyone here has nothing but support for what you guys are doing, and making sure you don't have to sacrifice (much) to do it.
What gets the forum riled up is lack of communication. People just want to know what's going on, especially this close to the stated timeline.

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I’m usually pretty good about

I’m usually pretty good about managing my commitments and family time. No one else is pressuring me with any deadlines on my work - it is all me. Part of my personal sense of pressure is that I know regular job is going to get busy soon and I’m trying to avoid getting back logged later. So some time sacrificed now saves me time in the near future.


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rookslide wrote:
rookslide wrote:

I'm astonished at the regularly negative posts by those whose investment literally amounts to little more than hope.

I'm astonished at the blind faith from many who have real money invested. I'm not sure what my reaction would be right now if I was in that camp. Glad I'm not.

Quote:

Fall has ended on Dec. 21st since well before I was born so to any that fail to think of it that way, well there really isn't any good reason for this.

Ok, then let me invite you to my fall festival. It's the week before Christmas. That makes sense, right?

Quote:

As for the apparent lack of communication, MWM's communication is far better than several companies that have products available in a wide variety of markets.

This is a great example of whataboutism. Yea this thing is bad, but it's better than this other really bad thing! That's not a justification, just a distraction.

Quote:

What I feel I am hearing are people that don't like that they aren't in the developers inner circle and whether they realize it or not are doing their part to discourage the general masses already in support of the development.

Personally, I prefer the single post MWM makes every week or two about progress of whatever sort than I do any posts by the naysayers which are far more regularly posted. If hope is all you have invested you really don't have anything to lose by them being right or wrong about release dates or when they communicate about them. As far as professionalism is concerned, I find the posts of the devs far more professional than the vast majority of supporter posts even the most elegantly written ones.

I have no desire to be on the development team, I just want to know what's going on in a very broad sense. I'm not sure why that is too much to ask, or why such a desire would "discourage the general masses". If anything, an improvement in communication would only encourage the masses. I want the masses fully on board. That is my one and only intent here. Furthermore, I would hope that the devs updates are more professional than the random posts made on the forum, considering they're the ones selling a product, and we're the ones buying it. The duty of professionalism is solely on them.

Quote:

I sincerely hope they make the end of Fall 2018 as they have declared but if they don't I'm okay with it and frankly as long as I've waited I don't mind not knowing until the last minute either way. They haven't even begun to advertise this as anything marketable anytime soon let alone as a viable game to the masses. So the Fall 2018 is very much an internal target date such that, the only people waiting and hoping for any form of release are the devs and the supporters (all of us), not the masses.

We are far from enough of a crowd to keep this alive alone as we well know. Ergo, we are not a crowd that should require a "play by play" of the progress. When they achieved such a point, then yes a play by play will be necessary. Those who think this endeavor (COT) is already at such a point misunderstand the situation. Those that feel failing to communicate more regularly at this time to our group somehow lacks professionalism have overestimated the level of obligation on the developers part. Were they centralized that might be different, maybe... and then only because communication within MWM would be at least somewhat easier.

Humility and faith are cornerstones to hope. I look forward to whatever may come.

You seem to have to engage in all sorts of mental contortions to justify the situation to yourself. First, they are better than others. Second, what they have is better than what random people post on the forum. Third, they are not obligated to actually communicate at this point. Last, the lack of communication is due to their structure, so apparently that justifies it. Most of your many arguments are completely inconsistent with each other, and clearly demonstrate the blind faith I mentioned above.

Again, I'm not seeking to tear the project down. I want to see it succeed to the highest degree. Any criticism being made here is purely constructive. The fact that you have to almost beat information out of people is proof that there is room for improvement. I'm not sure why anyone would object to an improvement in communication.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Sorry for being coy. I didn’t mean it to come off as ambivalent toward the issue. However [b]IF[/] was the operative word in the statement I quoted.

If we do end up behind schedule, I would be upset if we didn’t let people know considering the high expectations people have right now.

AFAIK, we are still on schedule. For Issue 0. Our AB team has been working hard to get the AB ready for the Beta version of the costume portion. Our level design team is working hard on getting everything set up for the initial map, fixing bugs we have come across, changing some things, etc. We even had some recent UI changes / updates.

Not every backer will get immediate access. invites will be done in waves (groups) to ensure we can handle the influx of users on the server appropriately, take feed back in a consumable manner, and respond to that feedback in appropriate time (this may not be directly but responding by fixing / changing what is necessary).

I’ve been giving power values a run over and even set myself back a day because I noticed that a series of sets had old values from before we had made changes to some of the math is handled. I don’t know how I missed some of these powers but I’m sure glad I decided to give them another pass as some of the values would have been...not good.

I took time from spending the afternoon wirh my bible study group, and later my family, to try can catch up on my work.

I hope this isnt too cryptic for anyone.

Thanks for this information Tannim. Good to know you're still on track. Best of luck, I hope you can meet the deadline, but also I hope you don't have to sacrifice personal time to do it, especially at this time of year. We will understand if you have to delay!

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It's not about blind faith. I

It's not about blind faith. I think some people just aren't that negative about it. While others are maybe somewhat super optimistic, I think it's still better than to darken the atmosphere in the forum, as we represent the community of future players and as such future comrades.
Your second sentence in your last post, kinda feels bitter and the sarcasm isn't helping at all as a statement.

Quote:

Ok, then let me invite you to my fall festival. It's the week before Christmas. That makes sense, right?

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TitansCity
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Oh c'mon Kuraikari... This

Oh c'mon Kuraikari... This sentence was just what he said. You know ...

Kid Rad wrote:

Any criticism being made here is purely constructive.

:D

Whatever we think, whatever we want, MWM will do what they can and what they want. We can cry, we can shout, it's the same :) It's up to you to be faithful or not.

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That's true. We should

That's true. We should let bygones be bygones and just try to understand and support MWM as much as we are able to :)

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alltrueist
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People on these forums are

People on these forums are pre-angry at something that hasn't happened yet and they're making it toxic. Maybe take a break from the forums for a bit and come back on December 21 to yell about it.

You're received your answer. It's current as of right now. If it changes, they'll let you know. Why keep being mad about something that might happen?

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I run a volunteer radio

I run a volunteer radio station, and I always tell my DJs "Real life comes first." So I understand when RL gets in the way, backs things up. MWM, you do you, and bring us in whenever you feel you're ready to do so. We'll be here. It's clear the team is working their collective asses off, and I appreciate that.

I mean, seriously... it's been six years now. What's another couple months if it doesn't happen by the end of 2018? #WaitingPatiently

Wherever, whenever, long live the drunk server! #PinnacleForever

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I guess it's an issue

I guess it's an issue inherent in any non-verbal form of communication, but it seems my skeptical curiousity is being misconstrued for negativity or anger. That is not how it was intended. I'm simply curious, justifiably so I think, as the self imposed deadline approaches, as to whether that deadline will be met. I'm not trying to sow discord or create public doubt about the game. Furthermore, this thread has now produced concrete information from the team as to the current status of the game, in relation to the question of meeting that deadline. Mission accomplished. I am personally satisfied with what has been said here, and will now leave them to it. I apologize if this effort was perceived as negative or laden with any animosity. That was absolutely not the intent.

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Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

I guess it's an issue inherent in any non-verbal form of communication, but it seems my skeptical curiousity is being misconstrued for negativity or anger. That is not how it was intended. I'm simply curious, justifiably so I think, as the self imposed deadline approaches, as to whether that deadline will be met. I'm not trying to sow discord or create public doubt about the game. Furthermore, this thread has now produced concrete information from the team as to the current status of the game, in relation to the question of meeting that deadline. Mission accomplished. I am personally satisfied with what has been said here, and will now leave them to it. I apologize if this effort was perceived as negative or laden with any animosity. That was absolutely not the intent.

Okay! Don't worry! I'm sorry as well, maybe I was just prejudiced and yeah...
Well I still think I like this community, I think we just need some time to understand each other.
Granted, your curiosity is understandable, because we all are, maybe we were just a bit scared or too carefree about this.

We shall see what time brings ;)

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Wow. I guess if we arent

Wow. I guess if we arent praising we must be damning. Pathetic. I've mentioned multiple times I would RATHER they announce a delay so that they dont have to rush...which it seems like they are...especially during this holiday season when I would rather they be relaxing with their families.

As far as what I would consider non-angry constructive criticism on communication....its not out of anger or malcontent. I work in an industry where deadlines are vitally important to the physical safety of the nation. When the details are not clear and expectations are not appropriately set, there are severe consequences. And I'm not even saying that fully applies here....I'm saying it's not "up to snuff" to some degree. Short or off-hand reply comments in a thread should not constitute the full, official information from the dev team about the next applicable timeline. All the information about Issue #0 in this thread deserves it's own official announcement/update so it's clear, official, easy-to-find, and sets expectations professionally. These things, this close to release, should not be scattered in a multitude of threads across weeks and months of time.

And for those scared that our criticisms are dissuading the masses...first that's just ridiculous. Its constructive criticism to hopefully make MWM better to appeal to more people to be more successful and ensure the continuity of the game. This game has shown great potential both in scope and in released detail.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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rookslide wrote:
rookslide wrote:

I'm astonished at the regularly negative posts by those whose investment literally amounts to little more than hope. Fall has ended on Dec. 21st since well before I was born so to any that fail to think of it that way, well there really isn't any good reason for this. As for the apparent lack of communication, MWM's communication is far better than several companies that have products available in a wide variety of markets. What I feel I am hearing are people that don't like that they aren't in the developers inner circle and whether they realize it or not are doing their part to discourage the general masses already in support of the development.

Personally, I prefer the single post MWM makes every week or two about progress of whatever sort than I do any posts by the naysayers which are far more regularly posted. If hope is all you have invested you really don't have anything to lose by them being right or wrong about release dates or when they communicate about them. As far as professionalism is concerned, I find the posts of the devs far more professional than the vast majority of supporter posts even the most elegantly written ones.

I sincerely hope they make the end of Fall 2018 as they have declared but if they don't I'm okay with it and frankly as long as I've waited I don't mind not knowing until the last minute either way. They haven't even begun to advertise this as anything marketable anytime soon let alone as a viable game to the masses. So the Fall 2018 is very much an internal target date such that, the only people waiting and hoping for any form of release are the devs and the supporters (all of us), not the masses.

We are far from enough of a crowd to keep this alive alone as we well know. Ergo, we are not a crowd that should require a "play by play" of the progress. When they achieved such a point, then yes a play by play will be necessary. Those who think this endeavor (COT) is already at such a point misunderstand the situation. Those that feel failing to communicate more regularly at this time to our group somehow lacks professionalism have overestimated the level of obligation on the developers part. Were they centralized that might be different, maybe... and then only because communication within MWM would be at least somewhat easier.

Humility and faith are cornerstones to hope. I look forward to whatever may come.

Thank you for this post.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Wow. I guess if we arent praising we must be damning. Pathetic. I've mentioned multiple times I would RATHER they announce a delay so that they dont have to rush...which it seems like they are...especially during this holiday season when I would rather they be relaxing with their families.

As far as what I would consider non-angry constructive criticism on communication....its not out of anger or malcontent. I work in an industry where deadlines are vitally important to the physical safety of the nation. When the details are not clear and expectations are not appropriately set, there are severe consequences. And I'm not even saying that fully applies here....I'm saying it's not "up to snuff" to some degree. Short or off-hand reply comments in a thread should not constitute the full, official information from the dev team about the next applicable timeline. All the information about Issue #0 in this thread deserves it's own official announcement/update so cleit's clear, official, easy-to-find, and sets expectations professionally. These things, this close to release, should not be scattered in a multitude of threads across weeks and months of time.

And for those scared that our criticisms are dissuading the masses...first that's just ridiculous. Its constructive criticism to hopefully make MWM better to appeal to more people to be more successful and ensure the continuity of the game. This game has shown great potential both in scope and in released detail.

It's less about what you write, more how. I know MWM could've done that officially within its own update. However, people make mistakes and that's good, they now know they have room for improvement and can utilize it to the maximum.

The fear of having other future potential players scared away, is nonetheless a valid point. We shouldn't badmouth each other, but we should help and/or offer help. If people are getting impatient, they can always apply for a volunteer position. I think they always need help. If you want that MWM to change, maybe you need to be in their position and support them. If you apply as a Moderator or even PR-Manager, there might be a good chance that you can improve the communication between Player and Developers.

I understand your frustration, how some of us, me included, are maybe over-beautifying the facts. But we try do uphold a comfortable atmosphere.

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warlocc
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I don't see any anger or

I don't see any anger or negativity in this thread. Nor demands that a date be met or certain things be given.
Just curiosity.
Certainly it's persistent and even insistent, but I wouldn't call it negative.

I don't think anyone here would even be upset if the devs took the month off (hypothetically)- provided they communicated it.

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warlocc wrote:
warlocc wrote:

I don't see any anger or negativity in this thread. Nor demands that a date be met or certain things be given.
Just curiosity.
Certainly it's persistent and even insistent, but I wouldn't call it negative.

I don't think anyone here would even be upset if the devs took the month off (hypothetically)- provided they communicated it.

Communication is something which is very complicated. Different people take statements, texts differently. Maybe it's phrasing, maybe the choice of words. There are a lot of ways how someone can understand something.

Maybe I am just negative myself. I might really be just a pessimistic young man.
I think I should work harder on that perspective.

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StellarAgent
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I see a lot of people saying

I see a lot of people saying that they aren't being negative, that they are just offering Constructive Criticism. The problem that I see is that Constructive Criticism has TWO parts to it.
First is the Criticism, no problem there, a lot of that going around.
Second is the Constructive part, which isn't all there. I don't see a lot of suggestions of HOW to do it better, just that they SHOULD do it better.

If you don't want your criticisms to come off as sounding negative, then please, tell us HOW it can be done better. But before you do, remember the situation that the Devs are in. ALL Volunteer; No office to work out of (just personal PCs at home); scattered across the globe (different time zones); some of the volunteers do shift work, so aren't on a 9 to 5 schedule; and probably more complications that I'm not even aware of. So all you Project Managers out there, HOW would you do it better?

Dark Cleric
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StellarAgent wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:

I see a lot of people saying that they aren't being negative, that they are just offering Constructive Criticism. The problem that I see is that Constructive Criticism has TWO parts to it.
First is the Criticism, no problem there, a lot of that going around.
Second is the Constructive part, which isn't all there. I don't see a lot of suggestions of HOW to do it better, just that they SHOULD do it better.

If you don't want your criticisms to come off as sounding negative, then please, tell us HOW it can be done better. But before you do, remember the situation that the Devs are in. ALL Volunteer; No office to work out of (just personal PCs at home); scattered across the globe (different time zones); some of the volunteers do shift work, so aren't on a 9 to 5 schedule; and probably more complications that I'm not even aware of. So all you Project Managers out there, HOW would you do it better?

It's pretty simple. Communicate the details in an official post. There are various details scattered across threads and time...put it into one official post with every detail a consumer could possibly need that is able to be shared. How long would it take to right a few paragraphs...10 minutes? 15?

It's either "we are officially releasing on x date and here are all the details anyone will need to participate" or "we have to delay until x date or time frame (like Winter 2019) for x, y, and z reasons." This kind of official statement shouldn't be coming out at the expected release time...it should be as early as possible.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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