Basically it sounds like what it is, 2 (or more?) people can team up and do a special maneuver or attack. For example, Colossus and Wolverine's fastball special, or when Thor hits Caps shield.
This came to me in the other thread about emanation points. I (think) I saw a CoT video where multiple beams that came together a few feet in front the hero to create the main attacking beam that went to the target. I may be remembering incorrectly, or maybe I was inspired by Iron Man in this video @1:51 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ugPT0VD1w). Either way it is a cool concept and got me thinking. If a player can generate multiple beams that combine into one, why can't 2, or 3 or 4? players combine beams to make a single more powerful beam? Think Ghostbusters and crossing the streams. And then I thought of other team up examples like the 2 mentioned above.
McJigg commented that cooperation with people and the powers looking similar may be issues to overcome. I may be thinking to simplistically, but I would disagree. As far as cooperation goes, 2 people could enter into a special team, like a sidekick system, and one of the team could execute the power. Such as, player 1 activates the power which generates the text "Tovarisch, fastball special?" and player 2 has to click the teamup power, within say 2 seconds, which will generate the text "Let's go, Bub" and execute the power and animation of player 1 throwing player 2 to the target.
For dissimilar powers, and I hope am not to naive about how it would work, certainly an algorithm can combine powers? 2 beams can blend (i.e. green and yellow make blue, or they can twist around each other. Something with effects like a flame or another aura can also wrap around or combine (i.e. the color of one and effects of the other) . And it doesn't have to end with beam style weapons. Projectiles can take on beam properties (i.e. energized arrows or grenades). A gravity guy can basically throw a person or accelerate a projectile (or beam - because comics) to make it hit for more impact. etc... I think something can be figure out for any attack combo.
Animations would be the hardest part?
And I understand this is a 'nice to have' feature and not something to work on for release by any means, but something i think that should be on the back burner.
I had a couple more thoughts about it, but figure I'd stop here before it got to long and see how it goes.
With aesthetic decoupling and the massive amount of powers and animations, I highly doubt this would ever be feasible. WIth a big enough team all dedicated on this for a long time? Sure, maybe. But they would have to build how each power and animation would blend with every single other power and animation, right?
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
We have a method of providing something along the lines of say Oil Slick from the old game. We also have some stuff we want to try out in the future to expand upon the concept.
Basically our foundational system supports such combos, we don’t have the resources to fully develop it.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Didn't one of the online Final Fantasy games from mid-2000s have some interactive power/ability stuff?
This got me thinking that Specifically for Beam Combos the two (or more?) players Joining forces would, upon activating the teamup power (i like your Shout-out queue-up concept) the power would target a floating point for the merging, fun animation, then that floating point would deliver the attack.
Possibly a similar method could be used to direct players to auto-jump to the Team-Attack Point (melee or when the players physically need to be next to eachother) and Deflect/bounce back after the delivery
Haven’t fully thought these out, feel free to poke holes.
Edit: afterthought-I really think the Team Attack is a great idea! (Capcom v Marvel Combos Rocked) But not a deal breaker if it’s not there until later after launch, just sayin’
Meh. Bah!
I am purely speculating how it worked, but oil slick was a power that basically left an object on the ground which could then be affected. This system would seem to be limited to throwing boxes, crates and car like items and then having someone blast it a la Magneto and Pyro in The Last Stand. Cool stuff no doubt, but not what I imagined. I don't see powers as having physical space in the world like an object would. A roll is done for hit or damage and animation makes it look like it physically happened. I don't know if making powers have an object like characteristic would be to much of a load on PCs? or at least increase the base config the team is shooting for?
As Dark Cleric said, would all new powers would have to be built? And animations to accommodate teamwork? EVERY power doesn't have to be a combo power. In fact no existing powers need to be one. Instead of making an existing power perform differently with different animations in particular situations, the combo powers would be all new powers. So i think DC would be correct they would have to be built. 6 archetypes with a combo for each archetype would be 36 new powers and animations. Definitely a lot of work, but maybe the easiest solution as far as game mechanics and performance? You can probably reutilize animations, especially for ranged characters.
The animations would be static like any other power based on archetype and power set. Maybe you can have 2 team up moves. Maybe which team member initiates the maneuver the animation outcome/outcome will be different. If stalwart has a bat and initiates power and player 2 is a guardian with atrophic blast then the guardian charges the bat so when he swings it it sucks in a lot of energy then explodes out on contact. If the guardian in this scenario initiates the move, maybe he sucks energy from the mobs and it turns into a growing ball and the stalwart hits it like a baseball causing it to explode and send shards into the mobs. Just spit balling.
I can see different types of these as well: combat initiating, in combat and combat finishing.
How you describe the floating point (I was going to call it a focal point :) ) for merging the attacks is how I imagined it would work too. It gets created half the distance between the initiating toon and the target. Since they have disassociated emanation points, then why not a dissociated target point. For traditional ranged weapons that you'd imagine couldn't alter course, like a bow, the floating target would be in line with the primary target and the bowman. Then the energy person would 'energize' the floating target and the arrow passes through getting amped up.
You can’t have power effects alter or create a new effect based on animations or props in any way for combos. Aesthetics are decoupled from mechanics.
Any combination of powers must be done within the mechanics of the power itself. It has to be supported by code.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
You may have misunderstood or not grasped what aesthetic decoupling is in this game but it is the complete separation between the mechanics and the visuals/sounds of a power. That is we will be able to create a "costume" (for a lack of a better word) for our powers that is as varied as the one we will be able to create for the character itself. The only thing limiting what aesthetics we can choose for a power is the very basic classifications like melee or ranged, single target or cone AoE or 360 AoE.
So they can't say that power 1 and power 2 will create [i]this effect[/i] but rather at most that this "power costume" combined with this other "power costume" will create this effect. That will most likely create a lot of clashes, especially considering that the same projectile animation (power aesthetics are broken up into several parts) can be interpreted to be different "things" depending on what launches it and thus a certain combination may not be appropriate in regards to how players view their powers to work. Considering the amount of combinations (a.k.a power costumes) that can be created then the work to make these kinds of combination powers will most likely be more than worth it.
And remember that if every combination, regardless of if power or aesthetics, has to be unique then the work will increase exponentially for every single addition. I don't think it will be sustainable in the long run.
If we are talking only about colors then most likely. However as was said in the [url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/discuss-sneak-peek-auras]discussion thread[/url] for their news post that showcased some auras dynamic changes to the animations themselves was not possible. The prime example was having objects orbit around you and the need for one explicit animation for each object.
Now I'm certain they could create the combined effect as an explicit animation but again, I think it will become too much work to be worth it.
I think I get the aesthetic decoupling (though I had forgotten about the one specific aura), it is similar to Freedom Force in that regard. Maybe I get it. I am just doing a poor job of explaining myself. In that first paragraph you highlighted, I didn't mean to imply that the animation is static in the sense if you pick atrophic blast the power will be silver with a black aura tendril-like aura and you have to get in a quarter squat position with both arms out in front towards the target. I didn't mean that you would target the bat or stalwart and imbue them with or change their powers using a tier 1-9 power. I was thinking of ways to simplify how a combo move would work. I said and I think we all agree these would have to be new powers with new animations.
What I mean by animation based on archetype was the movement of the character skeleton. So if a melee and a ranged duo were doing a move, the ranged character would do 1 or maybe 2 possible movements to show blasting his partner or creating an object (ball, wall, etc...) of energy. Then the melee character does a movement hitting it with a body part or prop. If the ranged person was with another ranged person maybe their movement would be to bump fists and their other arms point at the target. For two melee folks, one can grab the other by the shoulder and knee and spin the other around and toss them. The animation (if there's a better word, please let me know so I can be less confusing) has nothing to do with the behind the scenes power mechanics. I did say that the to-hit, damage and the like occurs behind the scenes and the animation is just a visualization of that.
As far as colors and auras, I'll dial back my algorithm idea and go simpler. Combos would be new powers so you can customize them as far as visuals, right? (primary color, secondary color, aura, opaqueness, etc...) So on a combo power whoever initiated it would have their scheme be dominant. Not entirely, but perhaps initiator aura and secondary power and player 2's primary color. If you had 2 beamers, they can keep their own colors and auras and when the beams come together, whoever initiated the power would have their scheme be dominant. So instead of melding as I had envisioned it, the game can just chooses between 2 decisions per power costume piece to use your example.
As far as the game mechanics for combining powers, I would need a better understanding of how the powers work. When you click a power the game reaches into a database (?) and pulls out the information. My database knowledge is a bit old, but can the game go into a table and pull certain fields? Can an index be created when the duo is formed to make this easier/quicker? Are powers they like the aesthetics? Instead of having primary color, secondary color and aura, you have primary effect/damage, secondary effect/damage and tertiary effect? In that case would it be possible to do the same as I suggested above and use the initiator to be the basis to determine a combination of power mechanics?
I think we are all on the same page (except in my understanding of the power mechanics), I hope I explained my POV a little better. But moving on...
Since you can team up with anyone and would still want to do these combos, the question may be asked how do you determine what colors to use if you have all different colors for all your powers? Well one player would have unlock or choose the power and they customize as desired. For the second player, they haven't chosen a team power and making them do it when a duo is initiated would kill gameplay. They can still do the animation/movements because of archetype, and the game simply uses his highest tier power color scheme for reference.
I hope I don't come off to thick headed, I just want to talk about the game in an area I (thought) I could add something. You guys rock!
Aesthetic decoupling doesn’t apply animations based on Arxhetype either.
If a Ranger picks a baseball bat and an Enforcer picks one, they can both end up with the same baseball bat swing animation with it. The only difference then is if the bat is selected as the emanation point, the ranged attack will have a particle trail even if they both pick the same particle effect.
Yes, combo effects wouldnneed to be coded in the power itself. The problem is you can’t describe what those combos look like based on colors, particle effects, props, or animations.
Which then becomes an issue. Take Oil Slick from the old game.
In our game the summons a stationary pet that is an area effect knock down over time. A player can choose to place a liquid aesthetic with an ice textured, or say, a storm clouds with wind.
We can’t use someone with “fire” to set it off to cause a damagenover time effect. We have to code the slick power to use a mechanic. A simple one would be an attack that carrries Energy type damage to trigger the DoT in the slick.
The issue is there is when the knock down goes away and becomes damage over time because the power was to be changed by the combo effec, but there isn’t a visual indicator of the change. The loss of visual changes loses the dynamic effect that something has occurred by two or more powers interacting.
It isn’t feasible to create different aesthetics based on ever possible interaction. The example Ingave is one interaction - a change based on energy type being the trigger. But what happens if we want to expand upon that? Not just damage types (since there are only 3), but by other mechanics? It isn’t feasible for custom combo effects because it would require the animator and possibly sfx artist to make multiple options for ever interaction and then players having to spend even more time configuring them.
Which means the combo visuals need to be either not provided, which doesn’t help when it comes to visual information (which is rather helpful), or there needs to be a specific interaction animation set. Which would again, have to be done by devs and could be cumbersome as far as multiple possible interactions.
Do, we are, for the moment limited to simple combos. But to expand upon that, we need an additional system that devs can work with to set up proper visual indicators, but the mechanics have to be part of the power itself.
We have the mechanic possibilities, it is a matter of coding, fotumeately our power system does support combos.
We have the basis of ran interaction system but we don’t have the resources to fully develop it.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]