I wasnt sure if there was a thread already up that this would fit under. I was thinking about CoH's multiple variations of travel powers like teleport, teleport other, hover, fly, etc, and I had an idea for a variation on teleport where you can set a number to teleport you that far away from the locked enemy target. For example, if you are a blaster and your first attack that you like using has a range of 60ft, you could set this power to that.
There are some inherent questions that go along with it. Like it doesn't work if you are within it's set range so you cant use it to teleport away from the target. You also cant use it if in combat, so you couldn't just lock onto another target and blink out of there. You have to be facing the target.
So I guess this may sound kind of useless but I would like it. Depending on max range you could use it to travel faster to different targets. You could also use it to make sure you are at the right range to maximize the distance between you and the target. It would also work for melee characters as well.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Interesting. That sounds like the applications for it are almost entirely limited to engaging in combat though, unless you can target the landscape with it. That is pretty limiting compared to the general goal of travel powers being able to travel freely.
Rather than being a completely different power, it might work better as an option you can toggle for any travel power (stop when I get within X distance of my target). This could be worked in to the alternate fire concept that some CoT powers are already going to use.
This is why I mentioned it being a variation. It wouldn't be the same power you would use to travel, just like in CoH 'teleport other' was in the teleport powerset but wasnt the travel power.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Oh ! i thought this topic was talking about the aesthetic variations like portals, magic circles, vanishing, aspiration, etc, etc ^^
Concerning what you said, i wonder if it will not degrade the facility to use a travel power. i mean, if we must toggle or untoggle a power, that could be unpleasant to use especially in certain circumstancies like clicking to teleport, or even stop a leap which is already half done...
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I think what he's referring to is the alternate activation mechanic MWM has mentioned. Some abilities will have a different function if you right click on it vs left click, or shift+click. Maybe right clicking Teleport could allow you to arrive a set distance from your target for that utility option.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Movement powers are separate from combat mechanics. You won’t have movment powers that have requirements of selecting an enemy target.
Alternate activations are meant to utilize similar outputs. Output is how powers function. Teleport would have an output which hooks into something called a movment paratmeter to determine the possible distance for the vector change.
When you look at what we are using alternate activations for now; switching knock down to knock back, both effects are rather similar and can use the same output to apply the effect.
Now, for those who want to have some movmenrt related combat powers, we will eventually have a Combat Mobilty Tettiary. These powers can be “skinned” with different aesthetics to apply a wide range of movment aesthetics.
For example a lunge attack which moves your character to the selected enemy’s location and performs an attack of some sort. This could be a teleport, it could be super speed, it could be a super jump, it could be flight, it could be a grapnel gun...you get the idea hopefully.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Does that mean there won't be a TP Foe power, or just that it won't be in the travel power set?
I really liked TP Foe.
Spurn all ye kindle.
I think a power like TP Foe would -not- be considered a "travel power" in this context in the same way "Hover" was never really a "travel power" in CoH even though you could use it like it was. Just because a power might involve "movement" doesn't automatically mean it has to be considered a "travel power" in the way it's defined by CoT.
Think of it this way: Do you consider powers that Knockback targets as "travel powers"?
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
This is great! So many different travel ideas can be captured with this design!
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
I think that'll be a great set idea. /seconded
The motion passes.
[img]https://i.stack.imgur.com/MNeE7.jpg[/img]
Actually I love the fact that they'll collect all of the "movement based combat powers" into a dedicated Tertiary set if for no other reason than that means [b][i]anyone[/i][/b] could eventually use them. They would not be limited to just certain ATs or specific primary/secondary powersets. :)
[img=400x400]http://i.imgflip.com/187mdy.jpg[/img]
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
If a tiertary power is designed as "move" then "attack" and we can decide if we jump/leap/dash/tp and then punch/kick/sendaflowerinennemieshead, i think a tertiary power like grap/tp/aspire/charm then kick/punch/vomitacidliquidontheennemiface is probably ...hum..."makeable" :)
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This makes me wonder how teleport will work in this game. I will say, for myself, Champions Online's teleport was easier to use than City of Heroes' (that's about the only thing gameplay wise I'll give CO over CoH.)
CoH's teleport could be difficult to aim and was susceptible to latency issues out in the city. The actual long distance teleport could make you hitch while you computer suddenly loaded a whole new chunk of the city. It got bad enough they gave it a hover effect after appearing because this latency or even general lag could have you fall to your death before activating the next jump.
CO's, while not instant, is easier on the system, less susceptible to latency and felt fluid to use.
I've been wondering the same, with the same thoughts.
I liked the speed of CoX Teleport, and I used the ability for 90% of my characters. But lag could cause issues and I hated that it rooted you in place. I generally disliked CO, but their version of Teleport was very creative and actually decent for combat and easy to use.
I'd be happy with a version that just felt less clunky and restrictive than CoX Teleport.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
We’re going to be closer to CoH innfuncionality with some improvements.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I'm glad to hear that. :D
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Me too. While I really liked CO's teleport at first, I found that it was very, very imprecise for close-quarters because the speed made it really easy to overshoot your intended location; As such, if you needed precision you had to gently nudge yourself into position, which made the teleport often take longer than simply running to that same position; The only upside being, of course, that you weren't vulnerable as you crossed the space.
CoH's teleport took some finesse to use, but it got to the point where I could use it well in combat both as an entry and exit technique. With the right keybind, it was basically a double-click to go to anywhere I could put my mouse cursor, which I used to enter combat in the midst of a group of foes in order to start laying the smack down, and also a great "Oh shit!" button to put myself nigh-instantly 100m away from what currently wanted to do me harm. In-city, even with a little bit of latency, I was faster than my flight and superspeeding friends because they still had to worry about passing through space with obstacles, and again my keybind made it essentially a single-click process to go from point to point; Of course for longer distances (say, one end of Steel Canyon to the other, lengthwise) I would need to find a building to rest on top of which often allowed them to make up the difference, but I'd often be there waiting and just TP-friend them to me.
~ DariusWolfe
Errant, TNT, Vibrant and Fluxion on Liberty
A lunge attack... eventually?
The idea with aesthetic animation is perfect of course, I just don't like the "eventually" word in there. Lunge attacks are too fun to be left for patches, it should be one of the basics of combat (get in/get out), more so for melee chars.
Don't tell me there will be no lunge attacks of any sort at release... how will my fast-flying-tank "Thunder" reach the target in a flash!?
Go take a look at the example powers under Melee in the Character heading. Then scroll to Super Steength.
Not all Mleee sets will have a lunge attack.
Eventually followed by Combat Mobiltiy Tettiary. I would like to have this ready for launch. But it isn’t on the current schedule.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Well if it's any consolation CoH managed to survive for 8.5 years without anything like these so-called "lunge attacks" at all so you'll live just fine without them at launch. :)
Also the fact that that they are going to be developed post-launch for a dedicated Tertiary powerset (the Combat Mobility Tertiary) means that eventually EVERYONE will be able to use these kinds of attacks. As I mentioned before they won't just be locked away in a couple of specific primary powersets forcing you to play certain ATs to get them. Frankly that fact alone makes me not mind having to wait until after launch to get these attacks. :)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I would love to have at least two types of "aesthetic animations" associated with either a super-speed or teleport-based attack.
One would be to have my character instantly "appear" behind a victim (again via super-speed or teleport) and then have him/her bite the victim's neck like a good old classic "vampire bite". Having the victim swoon and collapse rag-doll style would be a cool final touch to this.
The other would be similar to above but instead have my character quickly get in front of the victim and place their hand on the victim's forehead to do some kind of "Vulcan death grip" mind attack or Kung Fu "touch of death" type attack. This would be perfect for single target Mez attacks.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
If I am following this conversation properly, I emboldened the parts I think to which we are referring, then Co* got its first "Lunge" attack just a little over 2 years after launch.
With Co* officially launching on April 28, 2004, and Lightning Rod (https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Electrical_Melee#Lightning_Rod) hitting live on June 6, 2006.
Later would come more of these attacks, off the top of my head I can think of Spring Attack (https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Leaping#Spring_Attack) as well.
The exceptions that prove the rule. At least you highlighted that even these examples didn't "launch" with CoH. ;)
OK, so CoH eventually did have at least two isolated cases of "lunge attacks" effectively "trapped" in specific powersets (which by the way I don't think I ever used so forgive my obvious lack of recall about them). But the very fact that I didn't recall that CoH even had powers like that proves my point that implementing something like the Combat Mobility Tertiary (that [b]EVERYONE[/b] will be able to use) is the vastly superior solution to this issue.
You want a couple of cool powers like this stuck in isolated powersets or would you rather everyone get to use them regardless of their AT or main travel power? I know the obvious answer to that question. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
It's true in CoH we had the "taunt" and that was it, or the travel power to close the gap (a solution a bit slow in the flying case in CoH), but a lunge attack is much funnier to see and play.
Imagine an istant dash+punch+knockdown in the face... you cannot substitute that with a simple running and then punching (Lightning rod was one of the funnier and beloved skills in fact).
Now that I think about it, there is also another way to put lunge attacks available for all builds with no tertiary, which is to attach a "lunge effect" to all melee attacks or some (or to melee basic attacks if those existed).
But I still think your "combat mobility tertiary" is the best solution, since it's in the hands of the players if they want it or not. For example if I create a golem like "The Thing" of the FantasticFour, I don't want to lunge at all, since it's supposed to be very slow and heavy (I'd prefer more invulnerability/strength and less mobility in that case therefore a different tertiary set).
I admit that even if funnier, the lack of lunge attacks for some melee powersets won't be reason to uninstall a game imho (more so if I managed to play and love CoH), if you really can't anticipate that tertiary then don't and I'll be fine till it comes (with Mighty Lunge from the Super Strength power set, which Tannim suggested to go check and it's probably the set I will use ^^, lucky me!).
Lightning Rod + Shield Charge on my Elec Melee/Shield Defense scrapper = ded mob
Maaan!! How could I possibly have forgotten [i]Shield Charge[/i]?!
That was such an amazing skill.
Sogood.
*coughcough* [url=https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Shield_Defense#Shield_Charge]Shield Charge[/url] *Cough*
On the edge of your Perceptions......
Turn away and feel his hand upon your shoulder.....
Look for him and he shall not exist.....
in the middle of the crowd....lost in the faces....
Stands a Figure....of Gray......
*coughcough* Added to the game in [color=red]Issue 13[/color] *Cough*
One more time the exception STILL proves the rule. You guys have managed to cite all of three powers out of hundreds... Congrats.
I pretty much already earlier conceded that LONG AFTER LAUNCH a few of these "lunge attacks" were indeed added to specific powersets in CoH. For the record (since you guys forced me to look it up) Spring Attack was added to CoH in [color=red]Issue 21[/color] and Lightning Rod in [color=red]Issue 7[/color]. Good for you guys. But while you guys were lost in the weeds having fun pointing out these few lunge powers out of hundreds you were missing the [b]MAIN POINT[/b] of my response to ThunderCAP.
To remind you I was mainly answering the point about whether attacks like these [b]should be included in CoT at launch or not[/b]. Ironically you guys have helped me prove these attacks did not exist at [b]CoH launch[/b] so there's no reason they must exist at [b]CoT launch[/b] either.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Yup, Lightning Rod, Shield Charge, and Spring Attack were the only ones.
Spring attack being the only one available to anyone.
Shield Charge was originally supposed to be a straight line attack that hit everyone in the line and moved the character, but they couldn’t get it to work right. They ended up with the location AoE version instead.
The goal we used to apply Lunge attacms to Melee sets were as an exception. As such, basically yo’ll likely see 1 set from each Melee playbstyle. Along with the Combat Mobility Tertiary.
This doesn’t preclude other sets from having them eventuallly. It is just for now, this is the current design goal.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
They're going to be launching the game missing a LOT of stuff that we are probably used to from the old game. Entire classes of powersets to be added later; Pets, Manipulation, Assault, and in turn many class/specification combos will not be accessible. Hell, we aren't even going to be able to get to level 50 right at launch, and parts of the city will not be immediately open to travel.
Just like CoH, they are going to be adding to the game after release. That's how MMOs work. CoT at launch is not going to be as feature-rich as CoX was at sunset, but I'm sure we will get there someday down the road.
And again I just want to say I love the idea of the Combat Mobility Tertiary because that should give anyone in CoT the option to use these "lunge attacks" with any character, not just a couple of melee-oriented ones or ones locked to certain specific travel powers (as they existed in CoH).
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'll concede they won't be as feature rich at launch but from so much of the discussions they have had with shared snippets here and there of various design goals I think it safe to say there will be plenty of shiny newness to keep me more than interested until they catch up with the missing and (I'm guessing much more often than not) improved upon details. I mean just seeing the characters they have created in the not yet released chargen for recent "updates"/instagram shares/etc. they have shown over the last month or so tells me COT will have a more sophisticated look and feel all around.
I can't wait to be in that test phase chat zone with a new character just learning what's what! Each update from then on will bring a level of wow we have all been hearing but remained conservatively skeptical about until really seeing it! I'm just so excited about it I can't lose that hopeful anticipation!
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
Yeah, let's not forget both CoH and CoV originally launched with 40 being the cap, with 50 added after.
50? I didnt even think we'd get 40! Thought it was stated somewhere that the Cap at Launch was 30? Gonna have to go and do some research!
On the edge of your Perceptions......
Turn away and feel his hand upon your shoulder.....
Look for him and he shall not exist.....
in the middle of the crowd....lost in the faces....
Stands a Figure....of Gray......
I had the same idea in mine.
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The launch cap is indeed level 30 and contains roughly half the city. Later we will open up the level cap to 50 and along with it, the other half of the city.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
SavageFist: What's wrong with how teleport was done in CoH for combat utility? I used it as an In and an Out for combat all the time, even for "Oh shit!" moments. Was it because it took some specific keyboard configuration to make it knee-jerk ready? For combat escape, I'd just have to re-orient the camera (playing with mouse-look pretty much always on made this second nature) Ctrl-double-click a distant wall twice and I was gone. I'm not trying to pooh-pooh your suggestions, they just seem super fiddly and limited use in my opinion, and the basic teleport seems like it worked just fine for what you'd like, if you used it right.
~ DariusWolfe
Errant, TNT, Vibrant and Fluxion on Liberty
Dude, chill. I was asking a question, that's all. If you don't like the question, no one's forcing you to answer it, but this is how conversations work. Someone says something, someone else says something in response, back and forth.
If what I suggested didn't work for you, then you could either explain why, or ignore the question. Getting mad about it is also an option, but I'm not sure how it's a productive one.
~ DariusWolfe
Errant, TNT, Vibrant and Fluxion on Liberty
I bound my teleport power to my mouse button 4 (by my lright thumb). Clicking it brought up the targeting reticle, left click activated the actual teleport.
As to the option for short-range teleport my original write up included one as the first power (this could have been altered).
Setting markers is fine for slow-paced games, but would wpuldnrnbe good for innthr moment (especially if rehires to use the map over lay as the UI), otherwise no different than summoning a reticle when in combat. Meaning it is only useful if you have time to set up.
We won’t be adding extra directional elements to movement powers. If you move, you do so actively. Even a short-range “blink” movment would most likely be done by you choosing the direction to move. I. Which case, if reaction timing is an issue in target-location teleporting, some people could have a hard time with quick movements such as this.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]