Looting Mechanisms... Any mention yet?

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captrench
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Looting Mechanisms... Any mention yet?

hey all,

Any mention of what looting mechanisms will be chosen for the game?

I hate Need or Greed and its extras, Master, RoundRobin etc... I would prefer the original CoX personal/autoloot mechanism.

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It's been a while since the

It's been a while since the matter was raised for discussion, so I don't recall if we've ever received anything akin to official confirmation. However, the general gist of expectation and agreement was that the system would be very similar to CoH. Loot will be dropped directly into your inventory without need for "rolling" or clicking to pick it up.

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Cheers for the speedy reply!

Cheers for the speedy reply! I really hope that decisions gets finalised, but I'm much happier knowing that CoX's way of doing things still has appeal. I don't mind the default of having to pick up loot, but the Need or Greed minigame pvp just makes my cynicism spill over.

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One of my favorite Features

One of my favorite Features in CoH was not having to stop and loot. My share simply appeared in my inventory and I dealt with it in 'downtime'.

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Whoa, I desperately hope the

Whoa, I desperately hope the 'looting' system is like the one we had in the old game. Anything else would seem...wrong somehow. And extremely annoying.

But this thread is making me realise it's something I've just assumed about CoT without our having definitive confirmation from MWM, as far as I can recall. I wonder how many other dangerous assumptions I've made.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

It's been a while since the matter was raised for discussion, so I don't recall if we've ever received anything akin to official confirmation. However, the general gist of expectation and agreement was that the system would be very similar to CoH. Loot will be dropped directly into your inventory without need for "rolling" or clicking to pick it up.

This is what I recall as well - "looting corpses" is not very super-heroic (even during the grim-n-gritty Iron Age of the late 80's/early 90's) and the devs wanted the system to feel like the old game.

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As has been pointed out the

As has been pointed out the Superhero genre is not really "designed" with looting in mind (at least not looting the way most MMORPGs have dealt with it over the years) so I think it should be kept abstract and low-key in CoT. With that said I never had any problem with the way CoH handled loot and would have no problem with CoT basically handling it in more or less the same way.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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GW2's loot system does have

GW2's loot system does have looting, though it can be set to be at least somewhat automatic. That said, even set to full-auto, in GW2 you don't ALWAYS get some loot when you defeat a monster. Sometimes you get a small amount of coin, sometimes you get like a pelt or something (raw crafting materials), sometimes you get a bauble of some kind that can be sold to an NPC for a small amount of coin, etc. Sometimes you get nothing. But then that game has treasure chests just laying around the outdoor maps here and there which can be looted daily. That game also has a METRIC BLEEP-TON of different currencies and crafting materials etc to have to keep track of, which make inventory space a problem and a big pain. I was using two of my five free character slots in GW2 just as mules for crafting and so forth.

So if you took CoH's loot system and modified it such that the mobs drop stuff more randomly, with the most likely random result being "you defeat the mugger and get literally no loot from it" most of the time, you'd have something similar to GW2's looting, but without the treasure chests, because how do you do treasure chests in a modern era game, really?

That said, the GW2 system has inflation under some semblance of control, though it's still a thing. When I stopped playing, I mothballed all of my equity in that game by buying up raw materials until I was coin-broke, figuring that the mats would preserve value way better than the coinage. I think I had like 500gp saved at the time. I should check to se how much I can get for the mats now.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Whoa, I desperately hope the 'looting' system is like the one we had in the old game. Anything else would seem...wrong somehow. And extremely annoying.

But this thread is making me realise it's something I've just assumed about CoT without our having definitive confirmation from MWM, as far as I can recall. I wonder how many other dangerous assumptions I've made.

I know it's been touched on in the distant past, but I'm not going to go datamining to find the discussion(s). I can't recall much being said about it recently, though, aside from a "no loot crates" thread that popped up for a while.

It would be nice just to get a (hopefully) simple confirmation that the "loot" system will be similar to CoH.

This is actually something that's hugely important to me. I certainly hope/expect it to be similar to CoH... For me, the drop system was part of what made CoH my game of choice.

Any sort of "need/greed" system would almost be a deal-breaker for me on CoT, and I don't say that lightly.

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The loot system is indeed

The loot system is indeed similar to that of the old game - auto-drop intonyour inventory. Now as to what kinds of things drop - that may be different in certain ways.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The loot system is indeed similar to that of the old game - auto-drop intonyour inventory. Now as to what kinds of things drop - that may be different in certain ways.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Just as a pure QoL suggestion (that by no means needs to be in the game at launch time) maybe there could be a feature in CoT to allow players the option to filter out "lower level" loot from cluttering up our inventory spaces. I remember there came a time in CoH when you'd sometimes get low level drops that'd be relatively worthless to higher level characters but they'd fill up your inventory space so that you might miss better drops later on.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The loot system is indeed similar to that of the old game - auto-drop intonyour inventory. Now as to what kinds of things drop - that may be different in certain ways.

Thanks Tannim. That had been my assumption, but this thread did make me realize that even if it was a longstanding assumption based on earlier discussions, it wasn't something we'd heard much about lately.

I mostly solo, regardless, for a variety of reasons. But of all the MMOs I've ever played, CoH was probably the only one where (more often than not) I actually *enjoyed* teaming, even with strangers. In other games, nothing made teaming more unpleasant than the myriad ways people could be jerks about loot. In CoH, it was always a non-issue.

People got mad at the RNG sometimes, for being stingy to them, but there was never a reason to get mad at the other players over it. That made a huge difference.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The loot system is indeed similar to that of the old game - auto-drop intonyour inventory. Now as to what kinds of things drop - that may be different in certain ways.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Just as a pure QoL suggestion (that by no means needs to be in the game at launch time) maybe there could be a feature in CoT to allow players the option to filter out "lower level" loot from cluttering up our inventory spaces. I remember there came a time in CoH when you'd sometimes get low level drops that'd be relatively worthless to higher level characters but they'd fill up your inventory space so that you might miss better drops later on.

Lothic, it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion but I would point out that in CoH, at least, it would have been very difficult to implement this in a way that would be useful. That's because, as long as I'm remembering correctly, you didn't really get 'vendor' drops, i.e. stuff that had no function than be sold for Inf, just recipes and salvage. In WoW, for example, you get 'grey' drops that sell for tiny amounts of currency and just gunk up your inventory, so a setting to 'ignore grey loot' would actually be useful, unless you have a ton of free inventory and are absolutely penny pinching. In CoH, where a lot of rare salvage was worth about 5k Inf, but some uncommon drops like Alchemical Silver were worth a good 100k, filtering by rarity would be a bit of a blunt instrument.

Of course it'll depend how the loot system actually works to what extent CoT functions in a similar way, and a filter where you could choose item by item what was on your ignore list would always be useful, if a bit fiddly to configure.

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I'd like the option of doing

I'd like the option of doing banking and marketing remotely, not having to visit some fixed location to clear Inventory. I like the idea of calling 'Minion Express' to deliver Gatorade, Chocolate, and clean briefs, then dump out my pouches into a crate to go into storage.

For that matter, I imagine being followed by 'The Salvage Team', who would 'hoover' out those abandoned warehouses that I've just cleared, to the bare walls, and sell/recycle everything. They might also clean up the spilled blood/ichor and find out who owns the property.

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I have some solid memories of

I have some solid memories of opening up my Enhancements screen after task forces and trials and seeing level 30+ DO's. So funny.

Like, I understand it's vendor fodder.. But did anyone actually use those? Haha.

I remember at one point Anarchy Online had so much vendor fodder, that to condition people to vendor off their "useless" inventory drops, they added this item in the starting zone:

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Tranquil Flower wrote:
Tranquil Flower wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The loot system is indeed similar to that of the old game - auto-drop intonyour inventory. Now as to what kinds of things drop - that may be different in certain ways.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Just as a pure QoL suggestion (that by no means needs to be in the game at launch time) maybe there could be a feature in CoT to allow players the option to filter out "lower level" loot from cluttering up our inventory spaces. I remember there came a time in CoH when you'd sometimes get low level drops that'd be relatively worthless to higher level characters but they'd fill up your inventory space so that you might miss better drops later on.

Lothic, it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion but I would point out that in CoH, at least, it would have been very difficult to implement this in a way that would be useful. That's because, as long as I'm remembering correctly, you didn't really get 'vendor' drops, i.e. stuff that had no function than be sold for Inf, just recipes and salvage. In WoW, for example, you get 'grey' drops that sell for tiny amounts of currency and just gunk up your inventory, so a setting to 'ignore grey loot' would actually be useful, unless you have a ton of free inventory and are absolutely penny pinching. In CoH, where a lot of rare salvage was worth about 5k Inf, but some uncommon drops like Alchemical Silver were worth a good 100k, filtering by rarity would be a bit of a blunt instrument.

Of course it'll depend how the loot system actually works to what extent CoT functions in a similar way, and a filter where you could choose item by item what was on your ignore list would always be useful, if a bit fiddly to configure.

In terms of CoH I was thinking mainly of the inventory slots for enhancements, not salvage. Remember back before you could buy more inventory room you only had 10 inventory slots for enhancements and often they'd fill up with crap TOs and/or DOs. Things like that could be filtered and "auto-dropped" by the game so that you wouldn't have to do that manually (and constantly) while in mid-mission.

Obviously since the type of "loots" that CoT will be offering will likely be different than CoH in some respects the things that might easily be "filterable" could be different. Still I suspect there may come a time (like in CoH) where it would be nice if the game could be set up to "auto-drop" some classes of items just as a QoL feature.

MeSoSollyWan wrote:

I have some solid memories of opening up my Enhancements screen after task forces and trials and seeing level 30+ DO's. So funny.

Like, I understand it's vendor fodder.. But did anyone actually use those? Haha.

This was basically the reason why I'd like to have the option in CoT to auto-drop stuff not worth keeping.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Getting enhancements was one

Getting enhancements was one of the funnest parts of CoH for me when I started playing; not sure why but I loved finding the ones I wanted and equipping them. It was so satisfying. Especially when you joined a higher level group and got some that were too high of a level to currently use but they were what you wanted so you were looking forward to reaching that level to use them.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Getting enhancements was one of the funnest parts of CoH for me when I started playing; not sure why but I loved finding the ones I wanted and equipping them. It was so satisfying. Especially when you joined a higher level group and got some that were too high of a level to currently use but they were what you wanted so you were looking forward to reaching that level to use them.

Oh sure I remember those innocent days (back before I had amassed something like 50+ billion INF across all my characters) when I was virtually penniless in CoH and had to slot any crumb that came along. Those were fun days. :)

I'm just saying that after playing CoT for a while there will come a time when you'll really only care about keeping the best drops. That's all I'm saying here about having an "auto-drop" QoL feature.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The loot system is indeed similar to that of the old game - auto-drop intonyour inventory. Now as to what kinds of things drop - that may be different in certain ways.

Brilliant! Thanks, as always.

Looking forward to the different kinds of things. :-)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Getting enhancements was one of the funnest parts of CoH for me when I started playing; not sure why but I loved finding the ones I wanted and equipping them. It was so satisfying. Especially when you joined a higher level group and got some that were too high of a level to currently use but they were what you wanted so you were looking forward to reaching that level to use them.

Oh sure I remember those innocent days (back before I had amassed something like 50+ billion INF across all my characters) when I was virtually penniless in CoH and had to slot any crumb that came along. Those were fun days. :)

I'm just saying that after playing CoT for a while there will come a time when you'll really only care about keeping the best drops. That's all I'm saying here about having an "auto-drop" QoL feature.

Oh I wasn't responding to your post about that, I completely agree with you. That QoL feature will eventually, IMO, become more of a needed feature and less of a QoL when you get to that point. Not so much in the beginning...but yes, definitely at higher levels. Just throwing in my excitement for that part of the game

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I'd like the option of doing banking and marketing remotely, not having to visit some fixed location to clear Inventory.

Ehhh. I don't know - that seems a little bit too immersion-breaking for me, not to mention a little, well, lazy. I mean our characters are inhabiting a world to interact with - this isn't a lobby shooter. Personally, I think having in-world stores or marketplaces (or other in-game places to "do stuff") add to MMOs rather than detract from it.

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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I'd like the option of doing banking and marketing remotely, not having to visit some fixed location to clear Inventory.

Ehhh. I don't know - that seems a little bit too immersion-breaking for me, not to mention a little, well, lazy. I mean our characters are inhabiting a world to interact with - this isn't a lobby shooter. Personally, I think having in-world stores or marketplaces (or other in-game places to "do stuff") add to MMOs rather than detract from it.

As long as CoT does its "inventory management" well enough then I'd agree with you. There's little need for "remote banking" in a game like this as long as we can play a reasonably long time without having to go back and empty out our newly collected loot every 5 minutes. This is where having an "auto-drop" option would be handy. ;)

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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I'd like the option of doing banking and marketing remotely, not having to visit some fixed location to clear Inventory.

Ehhh. I don't know - that seems a little bit too immersion-breaking for me, not to mention a little, well, lazy. I mean our characters are inhabiting a world to interact with - this isn't a lobby shooter. Personally, I think having in-world stores or marketplaces (or other in-game places to "do stuff") add to MMOs rather than detract from it.

I think I'd have to agree with that. 'Hey, Captain Stupendous wants to join us for the next mission. I just bumped into him at the bank/store/lab.' That sort of thing.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I think I'd have to agree with that. 'Hey, Captain Stupendous wants to join us for the next mission. I just bumped into him at the bank/store/lab.' That sort of thing.

If he calls himself Captain Stupendous, I definitely want him in my team, that's for sure!

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

As has been pointed out the Superhero genre is not really "designed" with looting in mind (at least not looting the way most MMORPGs have dealt with it over the years) so I think it should be kept abstract and low-key in CoT. With that said I never had any problem with the way CoH handled loot and would have no problem with CoT basically handling it in more or less the same way.

Agreed. Keeps possibly things like "Pets/Sidekicks that pick up loot for you" out of the cash shop though

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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I'd like the option of doing banking and marketing remotely, not having to visit some fixed location to clear Inventory.

Ehhh. I don't know - that seems a little bit too immersion-breaking for me, not to mention a little, well, lazy. I mean our characters are inhabiting a world to interact with - this isn't a lobby shooter. Personally, I think having in-world stores or marketplaces (or other in-game places to "do stuff") add to MMOs rather than detract from it.

Given the rather abstract nature of the loot drops having the ability to auto sell the stuff seems to fit right in without breaking immersion for me.

I mean you punch out a crook and now have some like, science goo in your pocket. Great for immersion that. Where did the goo come from? Why is it in my pocket? Why did this mook have it? Now you as a superhero go to some store to flog this science goo for money?

I'd rather just have a "convert to IGC" option when i right click it. Save me a trip. Convert an abstract item into an abstract currency.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Interdictor wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I'd like the option of doing banking and marketing remotely, not having to visit some fixed location to clear Inventory.

Ehhh. I don't know - that seems a little bit too immersion-breaking for me, not to mention a little, well, lazy. I mean our characters are inhabiting a world to interact with - this isn't a lobby shooter. Personally, I think having in-world stores or marketplaces (or other in-game places to "do stuff") add to MMOs rather than detract from it.

Given the rather abstract nature of the loot drops having the ability to auto sell the stuff seems to fit right in without breaking immersion for me.

I mean you punch out a crook and now have some like, science goo in your pocket. Great for immersion that. Where did the goo come from? Why is it in my pocket? Why did this mook have it? Now you as a superhero go to some store to flog this science goo for money?

I'd rather just have a "convert to IGC" option when i right click it. Save me a trip. Convert an abstract item into an abstract currency.

Was the idea of "auto-selling" loot the same thing as having "remote banking and marketing"? I think those would be two fairly distinct ideas/suggestions.

While you can easily argue that NONE of these ideas really fit into a typical superhero genre (i.e. Why did I get science goo from a crook I defeated? Why should I be able to use my iPad to sell that science goo remotely? AND Why should I be able to magically transform the science goo into IGC?) its obvious that -some- suspension of disbelief is having to be put on hold to account for having "loot" of any kind in CoT.

The only problem I have with the "auto sell" idea (where an item of loot is automatically converted to IGC in your pocket) is that if this game begins to have a market economy like CoH did then it's hard to know when certain items are arbitrarily going to become much more valuable to players than what their "base game value" might be worth. For example the game might provide "inanimate carbon rods" as loot that are worth a base price of 5 IGC. What if something happens to suddenly make those carbon rods worth 10k or more on the open market? I'd hate for the game to keep "auto-converting" any inanimate carbon rods I got as loot into 5 IGC.

But I suppose if the game provided a manual right-click option on each piece of loot so that the player had the option to magically convert any single piece of existing loot to some default amount of IGC that would seem reasonable enough. I just don't like the idea of the game being set to do that "automatically" for all incoming loot.

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Wrong word usage there I

Wrong word usage there I think for me. It was like 1:30 am when I wrote that...

Pretty sure I meant remote selling. Which still doesn't really break any immersion for me. I mean I'm pretty sure you can, irl, set up stuff like selling things on ebay on the go, so I don't see any real problem with characters being able to do that.

In fact it might be less immersion breaking depending on how any sort of market is handled. If there's one in a neutral place that both heroes and villains go to, then why is my hero trading science goo next to a bad guy trying to fleace stolen property? If there's a hero market and a villian market (even if all the items go into the same pool) then that makes it a bit better.

Honestly it's kind of odd imagining heroes going to any kind of auction.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Wrong word usage there I think for me. It was like 1:30 am when I wrote that...

Pretty sure I meant remote selling. Which still doesn't really break any immersion for me. I mean I'm pretty sure you can, irl, set up stuff like selling things on ebay on the go, so I don't see any real problem with characters being able to do that.

In fact it might be less immersion breaking depending on how any sort of market is handled. If there's one in a neutral place that both heroes and villains go to, then why is my hero trading science goo next to a bad guy trying to fleace stolen property? If there's a hero market and a villian market (even if all the items go into the same pool) then that makes it a bit better.

Honestly it's kind of odd imagining heroes going to any kind of auction.

Again I think most of us can agree by default that the entire idea of "loot", auctions and markets being associated with the superhero genre is a bit "weird" but given that this is a MMORPG we have to make some "allowances" for the idea.

Also it's probably worth noting that CoH did allow for the idea of "remote marketing" via the auctionhouse slash command that was originally offered as a high level vet reward. I suppose if CoT wanted to make something like that be an unlockable feature you could buy from the in-game store then that'd be fine.

I'm still going to stand by my original position that you don't really need anything like that if the game is designed well enough that you aren't obliged to access the market every 5 minutes in the first place. To be clear the auctionhouse slash command was originally attached to the 84 month Vet badge which meant you had to have played the game for 7 years before you got access to it regardless.

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In GW2, you can put items up

In GW2, you can put items up for sale anywhere, but you have to go to a NPC Trading Post location to actually get the items you bought, or the IGC you gained into your wallet. Until you do that, the stuff is held in trading post escrow for you, but you can resell the item you bought and you cant use the money in any way until you take ownership of it by interacting with the Trading Post NPC.

I think that's a decent happy medium at least as a start. Maybe have a way to unlock "delivery" privileges and be able to get your stuff delivered to wherever you are, etc would be a nice unlock.

I personally like the idea of having people congregate in a given place for a given thing. In CoH, in the early days, people used to street sweep for XP at low levels. Certain places, line the Atlas Park/Perez Park doorway, on the Perez side, were usually buzzing with people LFT to get missions done. Similar areas existed around other parts of town too. That was nice. I liked hanging around Task Force giver NPCs to try to get on a TF in those days too.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I personally like the idea of having people congregate in a given place for a given thing. In CoH, in the early days, people used to street sweep for XP at low levels. Certain places, line the Atlas Park/Perez Park doorway, on the Perez side, were usually buzzing with people LFT to get missions done. Similar areas existed around other parts of town too. That was nice. I liked hanging around Task Force giver NPCs to try to get on a TF in those days too.

It'll be interesting to find out how they do 'LFG/LFT' stuff.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I personally like the idea of having people congregate in a given place for a given thing. In CoH, in the early days, people used to street sweep for XP at low levels. Certain places, line the Atlas Park/Perez Park doorway, on the Perez side, were usually buzzing with people LFT to get missions done. Similar areas existed around other parts of town too. That was nice. I liked hanging around Task Force giver NPCs to try to get on a TF in those days too.

It'll be interesting to find out how they do 'LFG/LFT' stuff.

The later days of CoX were less exciting, and more annoying. ou had an LFG tool, which you could access from anywhere, but most people were not LFG anything and so you had to send private messages to potential Tanks/supports/ etc asking them if they wanted to do the TF.

I'd rather just have a public area for people to congregate if they want to do a TF (like,m by the TF giver) and then have a "Looking for team" chat channel for people to use to advertize TFs etc that are forming.

What might be even better, is giving people a visual aid to help that. Like, you click on the TF giver NPC. and they give you the option of looking at graphic representation showing all of the current TF teams that are still forming for this particular TF currently, each with its own list of toons by name and archetype It shows you the names and archetypes of all the people they currently have, plus maybe a "Notes from the Leader" section where there's some text the people froming it wrote for you, to read, like "We want to do a Master of _____ Badge Run, and one guy will bring his healer or his tank, so we have some flexibility. One guy is bringing (POWERSET) so we'd welcome a toon with (COMPLIMENTARY / SYNERGISTIC OTHER POWERSET), obv.".

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Wrong word usage there I think for me. It was like 1:30 am when I wrote that...

Pretty sure I meant remote selling. Which still doesn't really break any immersion for me. I mean I'm pretty sure you can, irl, set up stuff like selling things on ebay on the go, so I don't see any real problem with characters being able to do that.

In fact it might be less immersion breaking depending on how any sort of market is handled. If there's one in a neutral place that both heroes and villains go to, then why is my hero trading science goo next to a bad guy trying to fleace stolen property? If there's a hero market and a villian market (even if all the items go into the same pool) then that makes it a bit better.

Honestly it's kind of odd imagining heroes going to any kind of auction.

Bruce Wayne has flunkies that go to the auction for him, thats their job.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

The later days of CoX were less exciting, and more annoying. ou had an LFG tool, which you could access from anywhere, but most people were not LFG anything and so you had to send private messages to potential Tanks/supports/ etc asking them if they wanted to do the TF.

I'd rather just have a public area for people to congregate if they want to do a TF (like,m by the TF giver) and then have a "Looking for team" chat channel for people to use to advertize TFs etc that are forming.

What might be even better, is giving people a visual aid to help that. Like, you click on the TF giver NPC. and they give you the option of looking at graphic representation showing all of the current TF teams that are still forming for this particular TF currently, each with its own list of toons by name and archetype It shows you the names and archetypes of all the people they currently have, plus maybe a "Notes from the Leader" section where there's some text the people froming it wrote for you, to read, like "We want to do a Master of _____ Badge Run, and one guy will bring his healer or his tank, so we have some flexibility. One guy is bringing (POWERSET) so we'd welcome a toon with (COMPLIMENTARY / SYNERGISTIC OTHER POWERSET), obv.".

+1 to all of this. I like your LFG idea much better than the mechanism we had in the latter days of the old game.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Having some kind of group

Having some kind of group building tool is extremely useful. Requiring people to rely on happenstance or shouting advertisements is a huge waste of time for someone that actually wants to do the content in question. The only reason it was done this was back in the early MMO days was because nothing better had been thought up yet.

That doesn't mean players can't be encouraged to meet each other and chat and connect socially, though. People that brought up the point of some of the more hyper streamlined theme park style experiences such as WoW have a significant point. In such cases players are pulled from various servers and even nationalities with no interest in (or even ability for, due to language) communication and so can be barely capable of coordinating as a team even if they want to.

It doesn't have to be all the way to one extreme or another. A good tool that facilitates grouping does not have to be impersonal. It can facilitate communication as well.

Another important aspect of this was briefly touched on: the content has to excite players! Having a LFG tool that no one is using is at best a wasted feature and at worst frustrating to the few people that are trying to use it. The content itself is a huge part of this, as well as the mechanics behind grouping. Having random people on your team can be a giant liability even when everyone is trying to work towards a common goal to the best of their ability, so most games give some sort of benefit to grouping even for content that does not specifically require it.

In theory, CoT will have a much easier time making a LFG tool compared to games that use preset classes. While we haven't seen the game in motion yet, it is heavily inspired from CoX. Players were not really required to have a "holy trinity" setup of tank, healer, and control for CoX and as time went on CoX devs continued to move further away from that style of gameplay to allow for more player freedom. Instead of looking specifically for a tank or healer for a group, a LFG tool may only need to take into account a more generic scale of offense vs defense. Since control, tanking, and healing all have the same outcome (keep the team alive) and everything else generally has the outcome of making bad guys go boom, each character's powers and enhancements can give them ratings based on the offense and defense they bring to a group. A LFG tool can then slap together a group that has certain minimum amounts of each. These minimums can be based on the content in question or they could be set by the person starting the team, or both.

Have we heard from the devs on CoT design regarding grouping vs soloing, and LFG tools?

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I'd actually totally

I'd actually totally forgotten about enhancement drops in CoH. I was trying to think if there were any drops that were basically 'vendor trash' and dimly remembered there weren't, but beyond a certain character level those definitely qualified. I'd be tempted to say I'm against drops that are just a bit of IGC that takes up inventory space, but I do see a certain attraction to having them. Certainly most MMOs continue to have such drops, and games that fundamentally consist only of clicking (your farming sim/facebook game kind of stuff) continue to thrive, so there's got to be something at least a little appealing in clicking your inventory clean and watching your IGC go up. Such objects also provide an opportunity for humorous or enlightening references, and a bit of random creativity for the object designers.

A balance between inventory inventory space being meaningless and managing it being a significant chore is a great thing, and something CoH did very well in my opinion. Sure there were the useless enhancement drops, but I think they may have been an oversight as the enhancement system evolved rather than a deliberate 'lets fill their pockets with crud' strategy. Certainly the inventory expansions felt useful but happened fairly naturally so they weren't a massive chore to acquire on a new toon. Also having to pause to empty inventory was definitely a sign you'd been running a while and made a nice natural break for a team, rather than being something everyone's running off to do every few minutes.

So long as emptying inventory isn't a 'twice a mission' kind of thing, I quite like having to physically go places to sell/store/market stuff. It means at least you don't launch a do or die assault on a boss to find out half your team looked ready to rumble but were actually shopping on e-bay.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Honestly it's kind of odd imagining heroes going to any kind of auction.

One thing to keep in mind is, are you talking about heroes like Batman, Spiderman, or Iron Man? Or are you talking about heroes who live in a city where they brush shoulders with thousands of other heroes? There will be enough heroes in CoT, and they'll have been around long enough, that there's going to be an industry surrounding them. Even if it isn't quite so corporate as seen in some recent, popular anime.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Honestly it's kind of odd imagining heroes going to any kind of auction.

One thing to keep in mind is, are you talking about heroes like Batman, Spiderman, or Iron Man? Or are you talking about heroes who live in a city where they brush shoulders with thousands of other heroes? There will be enough heroes in CoT, and they'll have been around long enough, that there's going to be an industry surrounding them. Even if it isn't quite so corporate as seen in some recent, popular anime.

That doesn't really make the imagery of costumed crimefighters at an auction any less odd.

More so in fact in a modern setting where online auctions are commonplace.

Surely with an industry surrounding heroes they'd have ways to discretely purchase what they need and sell to others without having to stop what they're doing to do so. Hell even something like ebay would be far more convenient for the hero on the go, provided they vould buy and sell science goo over it.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Never liked the auction house

Never liked the auction house being IC in CoH. Keep it meta in a "Hey, hit this key and an auction menu pops up!" :p

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Part of the reason for a

Part of the reason for a fixed location is to avoid players gettin side tracked on opening and dealing within auction pop up windows disrupting the pace of a group of players.

Another reason is to create a space for a hub of activity.
It can be too easy to automate many functions that can be handled from any where and suddeny players don’t have many natural ways the game provides for them to congregate. Fine for the anti-social type of person. Not so great for AirPlay we game which is meant to thrive of social constructs.

This isn’t me a to say we won’t provide some form of automation or not. However, some concerns being expressed may stem from thinking of the way things worked in the previous game and may not directly corralate directly to the experience we aim to make.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Part of the reason for a fixed location is to avoid players gettin side tracked on opening and dealing within auction pop up windows disrupting the pace of a group of players.

Another reason is to create a space for a hub of activity.
It can be too easy to automate many functions that can be handled from any where and suddeny players don’t have many natural ways the game provides for them to congregate. Fine for the anti-social type of person. Not so great for AirPlay we game which is meant to thrive of social constructs.

This isn’t me a to say we won’t provide some form of automation or not. However, some concerns being expressed may stem from thinking of the way things worked in the previous game and may not directly corralate directly to the experience we aim to make.

Aye, IMO these considerations outweigh any other points.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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I've been on both sides of

I've been on both sides of the 'In Media Res Inventory Management' issue, both as a person needing to quickly sort, or empty, Inventory to make room for new/better stuff, and as a teammate to a person who suddenly calls 'pause' on the adventure in order to deal with their Inventory issues. My main reason for wanting to be able to do Inventory Management 'remotely' is because I hate-hate-HATE standing around doing nothing while waiting for the team to assemble.

Waiting for the team is one of my strongest motivations for working solo. Yes, being Solo means that I can do extraneous stuff whenever I want, without worrying about the Team, waiting for me, or whatever. Even so, a 'chuck it all in storage' button is useful. I want to have a big ol' 'Bin of Augments' in my common storage garage, where new alts can score good gear, on day one, by rummaging through hand-me-downs from their 'cousins' that have gone before.

There's a part of me that doesn't want to have to deal with the Market, hence having the 'Salvage Crew' follow along behind, clean up all the junk, and handle it semi-automatically, just send me an inventory and a check at the end of the week.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

That doesn't really make the imagery of costumed crimefighters at an auction any less odd.

Well, sure. Anything you're not accustomed to is almost certainly going to seem odd at first. Also, consider that these auctions would have begun before there was any Internet, and possibly even before the invention of the telephone.

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There is a point to consider

There is a point to consider for people discussing tools that make certain tasks easier. If you are seriously using the argument that giving people the option to skip something that is a necessary chore, and they (of course) choose to use that option to streamline the use of their time, then the chore in question never had value to begin with.

There has rarely (possibly never?) been a LFG or inventory management tool that actually removed people's ability to sit around and chat, which is the main argument for such activities having value.

Want people to socialize and make memories? Give them a reason to do so that is actually interesting! This doesn't mean just general game content and mechanics that encourage teamwork (especially if the game is true to CoX and solo play is viable). While such content is important, if you really want to encourage people to socialize and foster a community more is necessary. This means encouraging and even legitimizing social activities. Things like costume contests and base decorating contests can have IGC or other rewards. In game encouragement can be as simple as having billboards or other advertisements using a headshot of their character taken automatically from their character data. Such a system would have significant appeal!

This can heavily help foster community and encourage interaction with the devs if well implemented. It can even be broadened to include community content creation, having contests for mission creation or even costume parts.

You can apply this concept of shining a spotlight on player behavior you want to encourage to many things. Encourage fiction writing! Encourage art!

The best part is this sort of behavior encouragement can require relatively little work from developers with a well thought out system in place, since the players themselves can vote on content and even the necessary moderators can be volunteers. Many games use player volunteers as essentially unpaid gamemasters and have since the days of EQ and beyond.

In summary, don't try to force players to waste time on boring things if you want them to make memories. People came up with tools to streamline certain aspects of gameplay for a reason, because those aspects were not fun. Focus on the fun.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Part of the reason for a fixed location is to avoid players gettin side tracked on opening and dealing within auction pop up windows disrupting the pace of a group of players.

Another reason is to create a space for a hub of activity.
It can be too easy to automate many functions that can be handled from any where and suddeny players don’t have many natural ways the game provides for them to congregate. Fine for the anti-social type of person. Not so great for AirPlay we game which is meant to thrive of social constructs.

This isn’t me a to say we won’t provide some form of automation or not. However, some concerns being expressed may stem from thinking of the way things worked in the previous game and may not directly corralate directly to the experience we aim to make.

It might be good to have a building/room like in a Police precinct, or FBI office or something where people can go to look at all of the "currently forming" TF teams and hop in one if they want to. People who want to form a team in a more "private" way (i.e. only their SG or only their in-game friends, etc) could then still do that and have the leader talk to the NPC that gives the TF, or form it from the inside of their SG base.

One thing that occurred to me, you might even be able to enforce a team composition with this feature. Like, if I'm a guy trying to form a TF team, I might go in and select "Form Posi TF" and it will generate a new TF group that the public can see and join into. BUT, I might have set it up with options such that the team has 2 slots dedicated to "Support" and two dedicated to "tank" and maybe the last two are "wildcard" which can be anything. Overwatch is currently playing with controls like this for grouping players.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

That doesn't really make the imagery of costumed crimefighters at an auction any less odd.

Well, sure. Anything you're not accustomed to is almost certainly going to seem odd at first. Also, consider that these auctions would have begun before there was any Internet, and possibly even before the invention of the telephone.

And somehow they've remained the primary way of dealing with this despite many ither more convenient ways?

We're talking about a world that would likely have teleportation technology and still the best way to get your science goo is to stop crime fighting, congregate in a room with a bunch of other people in costumes, and physically bid on the objects in question? If i was a supervillian I'd know where to aim my death ray (provided they're not secret auctions).

I get what the devs have said on the matter and I agree with those points, but trying to say that it makes any kind of sense in the fast paced world of super heroes to have a physical auction house is just silly. Maybe in a silver age setting an actual auction house for heroes works but not in a more modern one.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

That doesn't really make the imagery of costumed crimefighters at an auction any less odd.

Well, sure. Anything you're not accustomed to is almost certainly going to seem odd at first. Also, consider that these auctions would have begun before there was any Internet, and possibly even before the invention of the telephone.

And somehow they've remained the primary way of dealing with this despite many ither more convenient ways?

We're talking about a world that would likely have teleportation technology and still the best way to get your science goo is to stop crime fighting, congregate in a room with a bunch of other people in costumes, and physically bid on the objects in question? If i was a supervillian I'd know where to aim my death ray (provided they're not secret auctions).

I get what the devs have said on the matter and I agree with those points, but trying to say that it makes any kind of sense in the fast paced world of super heroes to have a physical auction house is just silly. Maybe in a silver age setting an actual auction house for heroes works but not in a more modern one.

Before CoH rolled out Wentworth's, it was almost a pure single-player versus the environment economy. You went around collecting items and cash and you sold the items you didn't need to NPCs for more cash to buy stuff you did need from NPCs. It worked okay, and you could even trade with other players, on a 1-on-1 basis, using the trade menu. Personally, I don't have a problem with that model, but RPG economic technology has moved on from that. People can now buy and sell on a much grander scale and some players like that. It may not sound like something from a comicbook, but is does feel like something from an MMORPG, so the Superhero MMORPG has it and deals with it in it's own way.

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Yeah, I understand why it's

Yeah, I understand why it's there. It doesn't make it seem any less out of place. Just because something exists for a mechanical or community reason doesn't mean it fits into the world any better.

It's just one of those things that MMOs have so all MMOs have them like the "kill x boars" style of quests. I would just like a better alternative.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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At least in those games you

At least in those games you knew where to find boars. I've had the same "Defeat 20 Tsoo in Steel Canyon" mission on my list since 2005... :)

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

At least in those games you knew where to find boars. I've had the same "Defeat 20 Tsoo in Steel Canyon" mission on my list since 2005... :)

NE corner by and around the corner from the tailor shop. ;)


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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

At least in those games you knew where to find boars. I've had the same "Defeat 20 Tsoo in Steel Canyon" mission on my list since 2005... :)

Down by the lake. Small spawns, and I had to patrol up and down the street waiting for respawns.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

At least in those games you knew where to find boars. I've had the same "Defeat 20 Tsoo in Steel Canyon" mission on my list since 2005... :)

You'd think you were talking about the one, single Contaminated spawn that would appear in the tram station of the Recluse Victory PvP zone. That one spawn would literally only appear roughly once per hour and was set up that way because Positron (the CoH Dev who was in charge of badges at the time) was a "vindictive ass" who thought it would be funny to make badgers struggle to earn the Isolator badge that way.

When people try to tell you there were no "spawn camps" in CoH they are lying - good ol' Posi set that one up just because he was funny that way. ;)

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There were some annoying

There were some annoying spawns like that in CoH. It was a far cry from the previous major MMO though, Everquest, the game that spawned tales of people sleeping in shifts, losing work, and pooping in socks to camp spawns.

That was a whole different sort of insanity that I am happy to move far away from.

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

There were some annoying spawns like that in CoH. It was a far cry from the previous major MMO though, Everquest, the game that spawned tales of people sleeping in shifts, losing work, and pooping in socks to camp spawns.

That was a whole different sort of insanity that I am happy to move far away from.

Man, I thought the "telephone call chains" for people to log in to SWG and help defend bases at 4 am just because the vulnerability window time shifted were bad....

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Other MMOs have had absurd

Other MMOs have had absurd behavior associated with them but I remember EQ being the one that the term "poopsocking" was coined for.

So yeah.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

At least in those games you knew where to find boars. I've had the same "Defeat 20 Tsoo in Steel Canyon" mission on my list since 2005... :)

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

Other MMOs have had absurd behavior associated with them but I remember EQ being the one that the term "poopsocking" was coined for.

I probably could have lived the rest of a long and happy life without learning that somebody came up with the term "poopsocking".

Then again South Park summarized that sad situation nicely enough with Cartman playing WoW.

P.S. Normally I would have likely linked to the YouTube vid to play directly in this post but given its relative grossness I simply provided the link to the YouTube webpage containing the vid in question to give the fair reader the choice as to whether they wanted to view it or not. Enjoy... ;)

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Radiac wrote:

At least in those games you knew where to find boars. I've had the same "Defeat 20 Tsoo in Steel Canyon" mission on my list since 2005... :)

NE corner by and around the corner from the tailor shop. ;)

Pssst...that was the NW corner. You could do circuits round the isolated skyscraper there and pick up all those Tsoo in about 15 minutes. ;-)

Spurn all ye kindle.