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Discuss: How we Do: Costume Unlocks

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Shadow Elusive
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Discuss: How we Do: Costume Unlocks

The forums weren't the only place people asked, so here's some of the basics.

EDIT: The following change was made to the update: Of course none of this is new: selling cosmetics is only natural for a customization-centric game like ours and is a popular alternative to the dubious practice of Pay to Win items. However, we are also going one step farther: every one of our cash shop items owned exclusively by City of Titans (we have plans for licensed content) can also be acquired through gameplay.

Please note we aren't certain even those won't be able to work the same way, with badge related unlocks. We're just not sure yet, and at launch, there won't be any of those anyway. But internally it was pointed out that otherwise we'd have an absolute promise.

Read the Update

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Thanks for the info, folks.

Thanks for the info, folks. I think you stated it clearly and concisely.

I appreciate your approach to in-game spending. I can recall folks in the old game who stopped their subs when the game went f2p because they said their budgets were too tight...and then ended up spending more per month on items in the store.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Love it. Majority of

Love it. Majority of costumes are free; those that aren't can be earned in-game.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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That art at the top of the

That art at the top of the update page is da bomb.

I'm certain this question will be raised, and I don't recall the answer since it was discussed some time ago, so: "Some items will come as rewards for completing storylines while others will be available just by exploring the world."

Will this create either/or situations that will require a player to choose whether a character will obtain one reward/unlock/badge or the other, or will players be able to go back to complete/unlock things they've missed?

- - - - -
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IIRC: Don't missions scale?

IIRC: Don't missions scale? They either scale to their max level and then scale you down if you are too high?

In that case (assuming I haven't developed Alzheimer's) which should never be locked out of content that may or may not include "Unlockables".

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Great update. I like the

Great update. I like the option that I can do a certain mission if there's a particular costume I want, or if I cant wait to get it I can simply purchase it in-store.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

That art at the top of the update page is da bomb.

I'm certain this question will be raised, and I don't recall the answer since it was discussed some time ago, so: "Some items will come as rewards for completing storylines while others will be available just by exploring the world."

Will this create either/or situations that will require a player to choose whether a character will obtain one reward/unlock/badge or the other, or will players be able to go back to complete/unlock things they've missed?

Going back over old content isn’t a cut and dry issue. It has certain implications for progression of the character. However, we do plan to eventually include a way to retread over old territory.


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Smexy. Keep it up!

Smexy. Keep it up!

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Love you guys. Just about

Love you guys. Just about everything I hear from you about the way you intend to handle the money side of the business encourages me more. Rock on.

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I have to say I like the

I have to say I like the sound of the budget tools you mentioned and the ability to set a limit per month. I also like that anything can be earned in game.

Thank you.

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I assume some storylines are

I assume some storylines are alignment-linked. I hope we're not excluded from costume pieces for being a good guy


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

I assume some storylines are alignment-linked. I hope we're not excluded from costume pieces for being a good guy

Who said there was only one way to unlock something ;)


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I really like that you're

I really like that you're planning it this way from the beginning. Shouldn't end up causing bugs and whatnot later on.

One thing I would like to see regarding this is something badge-ish associated with gameplay that would unlock costume pieces, effects, and so on... so those of us who do just buy unlocks upfront will still get a little ding of satisfaction/awareness when we would have accomplished it otherwise.

Any chance, just for the sake of nostalgia, we can have capes delayed for an update cycle? (unless you unlock them in the shop to show what a big spender you are and support the game)

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The bases, they are covered.

The bases, they are covered. *thumbs up emoji*

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

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Starhammer wrote:
Starhammer wrote:

I really like that you're planning it this way from the beginning. Shouldn't end up causing bugs and whatnot later on.

One thing I would like to see regarding this is something badge-ish associated with gameplay that would unlock costume pieces, effects, and so on... so those of us who do just buy unlocks upfront will still get a little ding of satisfaction/awareness when we would have accomplished it otherwise.

Any chance, just for the sake of nostalgia, we can have capes delayed for an update cycle? (unless you unlock them in the shop to show what a big spender you are and support the game)

That is, in fact, how we are handling this. Game play earned unlocks are done via badges while game store.purxhased unlocks do not get the badge.


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Starhammer wrote:
Starhammer wrote:

Any chance, just for the sake of nostalgia, we can have capes delayed for an update cycle?

how about no

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
desviper wrote:

I assume some storylines are alignment-linked. I hope we're not excluded from costume pieces for being a good guy

Who said there was only one way to unlock something ;)

I meant by play, of course any alignment can just buy it.


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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Starhammer wrote:

Any chance, just for the sake of nostalgia, we can have capes delayed for an update cycle?

how about no

Agreed.

Not a good idea at all.

Not to mention, it'd only be nostalgic for those who played CoH and even they (majority) wouldn't like it :p

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How about a special cape

How about a special cape later, or other item specific to lore.

IIRC, heroes gave up capes in honoree of Hero One and the rest of the suicide mission team.


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Great update. Loved the

Great update. Loved the budget tools, that's very nice.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

How about a special cape later, or other item specific to lore.

IIRC, heroes gave up capes in honoree of Hero One and the rest of the suicide mission team.

What if I am a villain or upstart hero and don't give crap about these so called heroes that did something way back when?

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Nice artwork, and the info

Nice artwork, and the info about budget tools is nice to hear. ^_^

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As always thanks to the Devs

As always thanks to the Devs for providing some new info for the game. It's good to get clear and concise explanations like this. I think the game is striking a good balance between how you can get things via the store versus earning them in the game. I particularly like that you can't "buy badges" but earning those same badges may unlock other things that you can get without having to specifically buy them. The extra consideration for "budget planning" is also good for those with families who are playing as well as anyone who'd like to keep a better "handle" on their spending in general.

Starhammer wrote:

Any chance, just for the sake of nostalgia, we can have capes delayed for an update cycle? (unless you unlock them in the shop to show what a big spender you are and support the game)

The only reason why CoH didn't offer capes when it first launched was that the Devs of that game had to live within certain design priorities/limitations. They didn't delay them just because they wanted to - considering everything else going on they likely had to make the tough choice to either launch the game on time or delay the entire game to get capes working. Obviously back in 2004 the CoH Devs were locked into delivering retail boxes on certain dates and when push came to shove they had to launch the game without capes.

So I see no legitimate reason to delay capes in CoT just for the sake of "nostalgia" when the "nostalgia" you're talking about was not even really the intent of the CoH Devs in the first place. What purpose does it serve this new game to make capes a "limited semi-exclusive" type of costume item under any context?

desviper wrote:

IIRC, heroes gave up capes in honoree of Hero One and the rest of the suicide mission team.

To be fair everyone knows that was basically the "BS lore" excuse the CoH Devs provided to "explain" why capes didn't exist when the game first launched. ;)

I'm reasonably sure the whole "Hero One" thing is not even going to be in CoT.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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For the record, there's a

For the record, there's a typo I'm somewhat amused and embarrassed by, given just how frequently I've experienced. My family name is MacKay, not McKay. It's so insanely common an error that I occasionally make it myself (although that may be as a result of the fact that my handwriting is very, very bad).

I insisted that we have the budget tools for a number of different reasons, and I'm happy that there was little disagreement at the value of such a feature. It's all too easy to not realize just how much tiny incidental purchases add up. Take my sweet tooth, for example. Suppose I spent ~$1.50 a day on assorted candies from those ubiquitous vending machines. Over the course of a month, that'd be $45, or about $550 a year. That's a month's rent! Having examined the in-game stores of a number of different online games ranging from MMOs to competitive team shooters, it became quickly clear that the safeguards against careless spending are far more limited than one might realize. For games where lock-boxes are a common feature, the situation is even more alarming. I honestly can't name another title which has this level of detail in regards to safeguards, most seem to just splash a confirmation window across the UI.

As a result, In the interests of full disclosure, it's only fair to acknowledge that we will be using the data and metrics from the in game store (including data from the safeguards) to constantly monitor whether or not items in the store have lockbox-like player behaviour attached to them. The number of items where this is a possible concern will be low, but is sufficient enough that it's only appropriate that we're planning ahead to mitigate it.

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As Lothic says, the Devs

As Lothic says, the Devs created a Lore reason to explain the lack of capes, they did not delay capes because they thought of a cool Lore reason (or any other reason) to do so.

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Great update info! I like

Great update info! I like that everything is available through game play and that nothing is available only as a micro-transaction. I hope this will apply to everything as the game continues getting updated over time...

I like that these are per character in most respects there may be some things that would be nice as account wide features but I can see the need to have per character purchasing.

I really like the idea that as your character evolves they get access to more aesthetic choices through the game play. It gives a nice feel to the concept that the experience your character developed over time gave them the ability to have some "fill in the blank" special cosmetic affect that sort of reflects a kind of experience and effort reward. I tend to try to earn these things in game so this idea really appeals to me. Not that I won't be spending some coin in micro-transactions too here and there. ;-)

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

As Lothic says, the Devs created a Lore reason to explain the lack of capes, they did not delay capes because they thought of a cool Lore reason (or any other reason) to do so.

And to be clear I'm not faulting the CoH Devs for coming up with a "dumb piece of lore" just to do something silly. Given the circumstances I thought the whole Hero One idea was probably about the most reasonably workable idea to account for why heroes weren't wearing capes. The CoH Devs were dealt a bunch of lemons with the whole cape delay thing so they tried to make the best lemonade out of it they could.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

That is, in fact, how we are handling this. Game play earned unlocks are done via badges while game store.purxhased unlocks do not get the badge.

Marvelous.

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The following change was made

The following change was made to the update: Of course none of this is new: selling cosmetics is only natural for a customization-centric game like ours and is a popular alternative to the dubious practice of Pay to Win items. However, we are also going one step farther: every one of our cash shop items owned exclusively by City of Titans (we have plans for licensed content) can also be acquired through gameplay.

Please note we aren't certain even those won't be able to work the same way, with badge related unlocks. We're just not sure yet, and at launch, there won't be any of those anyway. But internally it was pointed out that otherwise we'd have an absolute promise.

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Terwyn wrote:
Terwyn wrote:

For the record, there's a typo I'm somewhat amused and embarrassed by, given just how frequently I've experienced. My family name is MacKay, not McKay. It's so insanely common an error that I occasionally make it myself (although that may be as a result of the fact that my handwriting is very, very bad).

I've been a fan of Flint et alii's 1632 series for a while, and first ran into your family name attached to a Scottish mercenary there. It is a pleasure to meet a Real MacKay. ^_^

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I was initially worried that

I was initially worried that items would be outrageously priced, but I just don't think that is going to be an issue. More likely to catch big fish (many purchases) with a little bait (reasonable price)... Regarding the missions I was having nightmares of my current game and accessing new content, but then I also realized this is a CoH successor. I'm sure the tasks will be fun with groups like they were in CoH. I'm just nervous. Good job guys!

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

The following change was made to the update: Of course none of this is new: selling cosmetics is only natural for a customization-centric game like ours and is a popular alternative to the dubious practice of Pay to Win items. However, we are also going one step farther: every one of our cash shop items owned exclusively by City of Titans (we have plans for licensed content) can also be acquired through gameplay.

Please note we aren't certain even those won't be able to work the same way, with badge related unlocks. We're just not sure yet, and at launch, there won't be any of those anyway. But internally it was pointed out that otherwise we'd have an absolute promise.

Thanks for the clarification but it of course hinted at something very interesting. I'll ask the obvious perhaps semi-dumb question: When you say "licensed content" could this possibly include "player submitted content" that you'll accept into your store and allow to be sold on some kind of commission basis?

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:
Terwyn wrote:

For the record, there's a typo I'm somewhat amused and embarrassed by, given just how frequently I've experienced. My family name is MacKay, not McKay. It's so insanely common an error that I occasionally make it myself (although that may be as a result of the fact that my handwriting is very, very bad).

I've been a fan of Flint et alii's 1632 series for a while, and first ran into your family name attached to a Scottish mercenary there. It is a pleasure to meet a Real MacKay. ^_^

Amusingly, "A Real MacKay" is a more accurate rendering to the original of what is now used as "Real McCoy."

This is because McCoy is Irish Gaelic for the same name that Scots Gaelic renders MacKay, with both meaing Son of Aodh,

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I love badge hunting....

I love badge hunting....

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No one's giving me my Honoree

No one's giving me my Honoree pun?! :(


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I am all for you guys making

I am all for you guys making money and I am rooting for you to keep this game alive and thriving for a long time......(definitely a "shut up and take my money" moment)

That being said I am curious as to the way in which "purchased" (shop) vs "free" (quest) costume options will be handled. Essentially will the purchased items be highly specific or special variations of free items. Additionally how will these items vary vs the initial creation items

i.e.

Version 1:
Purchased - Apkallu Dodecadent (2 handed weapon) - In Gold or with Lightning effect or Bright Pink
Free - Apkallu Dodecadent (2 handed weapon) in Silver

Version 2:
Purchased - Apkallu Dodecadent (2 handed weapon)
Free - No comparable option

Version 3:
Initial creation - Apkallu Dodecadent (2 handed weapon)
Free (quest) - Apkallu Dodecadent (2 handed weapon) - In Gold or with Lightning effect or Bright Pink
Purchased - Apkallu Dodecadent (2 handed weapon) - Ability to give Legs to headstrong, blinded by adolescent love, daughter..........or Summon Singing Crab.....(either)

Apologies if either have been covered....its late

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I'd really not prefer to have

I'd really not prefer to have different versions for buying or grinding.


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

No one's giving me my Honoree pun?! :(

Yeah I got it - I just didn't want to Honoree you with compliment for it. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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How could we enforce

How could we enforce different versions when you can customize your weapons? Unlocks and cash shop items are the same.

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

How could we enforce different versions when you can customize your weapons? Unlocks and cash shop items are the same.

He's assuming/suggesting they not be the same.


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Basillica wrote:
Basillica wrote:

That being said I am curious as to the way in which "purchased" (shop) vs "free" (quest) costume options will be handled. Essentially will the purchased items be highly specific or special variations of free items. Additionally how will these items vary vs the initial creation items

desviper wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

How could we enforce different versions when you can customize your weapons? Unlocks and cash shop items are the same.

He's assuming/suggesting they not be the same.

The way I've interpreted what's been said is that whenever there's a case of an item being both purchasable in the store AND earnable in the game that it'll be the same exact item. I do not believe they are going to make the cash store version arbitrarily "fancier/better" than the version you'd get if you earned it in the game. It seems the only critical difference is that when you buy the cash store item it's unlocked account-wide whereas if you earn it in game it's only unlocked for the character who earned it.

Now having said that I personally would not have a problem if the cash store sold "super fancy" versions of costume items as long as there's always at least some kind of plain/normal version of that same type of item in the CharGen for free. For example as long as there was a simple plain crown available for free in the CharGen like this:

I wouldn't really care/mind if the cash store sold a super fancy version like this:

This would let players choose to pay for a "fancy" item while always providing a free alternative for the sake of not forcing people to "pay" to create any character concept.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

The following change was made to the update: Of course none of this is new: selling cosmetics is only natural for a customization-centric game like ours and is a popular alternative to the dubious practice of Pay to Win items. However, we are also going one step farther: every one of our cash shop items owned exclusively by City of Titans (we have plans for licensed content) can also be acquired through gameplay.

Please note we aren't certain even those won't be able to work the same way, with badge related unlocks. We're just not sure yet, and at launch, there won't be any of those anyway. But internally it was pointed out that otherwise we'd have an absolute promise.

Thanks for the clarification but it of course hinted at something very interesting. I'll ask the obvious perhaps semi-dumb question: When you say "licensed content" could this possibly include "player submitted content" that you'll accept into your store and allow to be sold on some kind of commission basis?

There are some real legal hurdles with that afaik.

However, people being laid up front to provide specific content (signature story arcs ring any bells!?) is quite different.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

The following change was made to the update: Of course none of this is new: selling cosmetics is only natural for a customization-centric game like ours and is a popular alternative to the dubious practice of Pay to Win items. However, we are also going one step farther: every one of our cash shop items owned exclusively by City of Titans (we have plans for licensed content) can also be acquired through gameplay.

Please note we aren't certain even those won't be able to work the same way, with badge related unlocks. We're just not sure yet, and at launch, there won't be any of those anyway. But internally it was pointed out that otherwise we'd have an absolute promise.

Thanks for the clarification but it of course hinted at something very interesting. I'll ask the obvious perhaps semi-dumb question: When you say "licensed content" could this possibly include "player submitted content" that you'll accept into your store and allow to be sold on some kind of commission basis?

There are some real legal hurdles with that afaik.

However, people being laid up front to provide specific content (signature story arcs ring any bells!?) is quite different.

OMG Tannim I know that you often use your phone to reply on this forum and I can usually accept/overlook your typos without thinking twice about it but this time you really got burned lol. Yes what you said is quite different indeed. ;)

For the sake of all the kids in the room I'm pretty sure Uncle Tannim meant to say "paid"...

Anyway, I guess I'll remain interested in what you guys mean by "licensed content" in the context of your cash shop. Sounds like you might be implying that UGC might provide for unique costume items that would -not- be available in the cash store.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Terwyn wrote:
Terwyn wrote:

As a result, In the interests of full disclosure, it's only fair to acknowledge that we will be using the data and metrics from the in game store (including data from the safeguards) to constantly monitor whether or not items in the store have lockbox-like player behaviour attached to them. The number of items where this is a possible concern will be low, but is sufficient enough that it's only appropriate that we're planning ahead to mitigate it.

The fact that this is even a concern for MWM just confirms that I have backed the right project here.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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This is great! I love the way

This is great! I love the way you will be taking responsibility for helping to keep people from addiction. It is easy to get so involved that you don't realize what all you've done (like the way hours can disappear when you're on Facebook or YouTube LOL). Well done!

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I've read through this and

I've read through this and the finance thread, and all I can say is "Thank you!"
Thanks for not doing lockboxes, let alone gating highly desirable costume pieces behind them. I actually quit playing SW:TOR because they seem to love their lockboxes or "packs" so much. It seemed that virtually all the desirable cosmetic items (weapons, costume sets, mounts, pets) were gated behind lockboxes that you had to pay real money for. Sure, you could also buy those drops in the auction house, but they cost so much that you would have to grind game currency almost like a full time job to afford the stuff you wanted. (something like 40 million credits for a crossguard lightsaber hilt). And to add insult to injury, those lootboxes with all their goodies were time limited too. After a while that stuff would go away, never to be seen again.

I am really glad that this game is giving us multiple ways to unlock costume parts, along with account wide unlocks for items purchased through the cash shop.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
Starhammer wrote:

Any chance, just for the sake of nostalgia, we can have capes delayed for an update cycle?

how about no

Agreed.

Not a good idea at all.

Not to mention, it'd only be nostalgic for those who played CoH and even they (majority) wouldn't like it :p

True, in my opinion. No Edna Mode-ing! Let there be capes! :D

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I'm really grateful for the

I'm really grateful for the month's limit option.
That show how serious MWM is about finance and the respect they have about the players.

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Imho the >cash shop< items

Imho the >cash shop< items and >unlockable via gameplay< items should be exactly the same, or the whole matter of "you can also unlock it via gameplay" will be gone. Even a slight difference will make a player feel forced to use "gameplay" or "money" to get what he really likes.

I am an example of it: Personally I dislike fancy items, so if the cash shop ones are fancy versions I'd feel forced to take the items via gameplay for each character (which requires to spend/waste much more time and limit my first costume choices for new chars).

But the real and strongest reason to avoid difference is still the 1st one, the idea you want to put in the mind of the players that "you can also unlock the cash shop item by playing" will be non-existent if the items are not identical (the exact same item unlockable in different ways).

Lucky for all of us the City of Titans devs seem to know better than the majority of players what some consequences may lead to, I agree with their actual decisions and hope they won't change things as suggested by some. It's already close to perfection as cash shop planning, anything different would be worse for the players or unprofitable for the devs (we're already very close to that, but still in the long run it should work imho) and the badget-control-feature may even start a trend so that parents actually let the sons play with a limit, compared to uninstalling the game completely.

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Great update!

Great update!

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Really nice information

Really nice information overall. Two things though that came to mind that hasn't been talked about yet.

1) How will the monthly budget system work, a fixed max amount per month or a wallet type "pool"? Fixed max would that you have only the exact amount you set per month regardless of how much you spent the previous month, and wallet type would just add onto it and build up with the unused amount.
Personally I wouldn't mind both system and making it an individual choice.

2) Costume pieces and packs. I would love it if individual pieces indicated if they were part of a pack, especially if the pack is more cost effective compared to buying all those pieces individually.

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ThunderCAP wrote:
ThunderCAP wrote:

Imho the >cash shop< items and >unlockable via gameplay< items should be exactly the same, or the whole matter of "you can also unlock it via gameplay" will be gone. Even a slight difference will make a player feel forced to use "gameplay" or "money" to get what he really likes.

I am an example of it: Personally I dislike fancy items, so if the cash shop ones are fancy versions I'd feel forced to take the items via gameplay for each character (which requires to spend/waste much more time and limit my first costume choices for new chars).

But the real and strongest reason to avoid difference is still the 1st one, the idea you want to put in the mind of the players that "you can also unlock the cash shop item by playing" will be non-existent if the items are not identical (the exact same item unlockable in different ways).

Lucky for all of us the City of Titans devs seem to know better than the majority of players what some consequences may lead to, I agree with their actual decisions and hope they won't change things as suggested by some. It's already close to perfection as cash shop planning, anything different would be worse for the players or unprofitable for the devs (we're already very close to that, but still in the long run it should work imho) and the badget-control-feature may even start a trend so that parents actually let the sons play with a limit, compared to uninstalling the game completely.

If you are referring to what Lothic said then I think it is much about the free version (a.k.a the items you get for just buying the game) and the cash shop/unlock version. As in that all types of items should have a free version so that you can make any concept at the basic level, while the more fancy and/or elaborate concepts would most likely need unlocks through gameplay or cash shop.

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

The following change was made to the update: Of course none of this is new: selling cosmetics is only natural for a customization-centric game like ours and is a popular alternative to the dubious practice of Pay to Win items. However, we are also going one step farther: every one of our cash shop items owned exclusively by City of Titans (we have plans for licensed content) can also be acquired through gameplay.

Please note we aren't certain even those won't be able to work the same way, with badge related unlocks. We're just not sure yet, and at launch, there won't be any of those anyway. But internally it was pointed out that otherwise we'd have an absolute promise.

This reminded me of another important point. It's going to be far easier to come up with more costume options/sets than it will be to create the content for a badge to unlock a new set. I'm quite certain that MWM will provide us with more costume options at a faster pace than they will new content to include the unlocks, so it's inevitable that there will be cash shop content that cannot be acquired through gameplay (initially). Or MWM plans to lean very heavily on said licensed content.

That's always assuming that we won't have countless NPCs (or even just one, a la City Representative or Mr. Rodney) sprinkled through the game that exist solely to provide missions for costume unlocks.

- - - - -
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You can always link new

You can always link new content to existing badges if necessary. I'm not sure why content production would ever outstrip badge creation either, you don't need new zones or enemies or whatnot to make more badges. You can always add more exploration triggers to existing areas, more "kill X" or "complete this story" triggers.

You can even have repeatable badges for accomplishing things that don't have an inherent limit, and just keep adding to those. Take X steps, jump X height, fly X distance, prevent X damage, take X damage, heal X damage to your, heal X damage to another, yadda yadda yadda.

Creating costume pieces is generally going to be much more of a hassle than creating a badge to unlock them.

Sure, finishing a big story and getting a cool hat that is much more interesting than "punch 5 baddies and get this hat", but not every costume piece needs to be linked to a specific boss fight or story arc.

It would be cool to see related costume pieces linked to related badges but you can always add more than one costume piece to a badge or have more badges added without much trouble. Getting the whole fishman set by doing fishman stories and beating up fishies is fine, and if they add more fish stuff later they can either add it on to existing fish related badges or throw in another badge related to exploring/defeating/completing stories with existing fish content.

No big deal.

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While it's generally
Quote:

While it's generally understood that games need to be profitable, there is a growing awareness of the ways player spending can spiral out of control. We've been actively trying to avoid practices that encourage addiction. To further help players manage their spending, we have decided to build in a budgeting tool, giving you the option of keeping track of every purchase you’ve made and how much you’ve spent. We’re even going to include the option to set a monthly limit on your purchases, so that you can adapt the game to your family’s budget or set an allowance on your accounts.

My wallet thanks you for this small but wonderful addition.

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Great update!

Great update!

Looking forward to throwing a costume together...

Best,

King Dunce

"The world is full of evil and lies and pain and death, and you can’t hide from it; you can only face it. The question is, when you do – How do you respond? Who do you become?"

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Options to unlock.

Options to unlock.
Budget tool.

Very excellent!

(Currently developing the Sapphire 7 Initiative)

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I remember a comment in the

I remember a comment in the first Costume Request thread and after a quick search I found it. This should help some people and refresh the memories of others:

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Our plan has been for basic costumes to be available in the costume creator by default, with fancier material either behind mission/accolade/badge gates or available for purchase in the cash shop. So, let's use Radiac's example of wings. In the base costume editor you have two forms of wings, basic feathered or bat-like. We have available fancier, like wings which are on fire, glowing, robotic, etc. Let's say there are 20 different kinds of wings available beyond the basic 2.

Say you want bone wings, you run the "Graveyard Fiasco" mission, which grants them to you. Your character now has that available for their costume.

You don't have time to run the mission but you still want the wings, you go to the cash shop and pay 200 Rae's (about $2), they're now unlocked account-wide.

You have ideas for 6 heroes all with different wings. You pay for the "Wing Pack" at 1000 Rae's and unlock every wing at once, account-wide.

notears wrote:

Well, if we go that route I want two things to happen.
1) These other costume pieces should be either fancier versions of concepts I can make at character creation without spending money. Like how there was simple cowboy boots and simple cowboy hat in the generic stuff of CoX and also gunslinger pack you can buy that had fancy western clothes that where covered in cow skulls, embroidery and all that stuff with guns that had horns and blades on them. Or they should be generic enough that they can be anything like the mutant pack or the elemental order costume set.
2) I should be able to buy every single costume piece out there in the cash shop. If I wanted a cape in CoT at level one rather at level 20 after a mission I should be able to go into the cash shop with $10 and come out with all the capes I could get with that mission.

Exactly the idea.

Now remember that was an old post and the missions and examples were probably for illustrative purposes only. But the core concept doesn't seem to have changed.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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This could be as simple as

Relunching content could be as simple
This could be as simple as putting 20 hour timer on the missions and have npcs give multiple missions that can unlock more. Or simply have two accounts and invite yourself too the mission.

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The budget tool is a great

The budget tool is a great idea for plenty of reasons. It will probably save your finance department some headaches, because you’re less likely to be dealing with chargebacks from upset parents, whose kids logged into the game and racked up a pile of credit card charges.

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Amanita wrote:
Amanita wrote:

The budget tool is a great idea for plenty of reasons. It will probably save your finance department some headaches, because you’re less likely to be dealing with chargebacks from upset parents, whose kids logged into the game and racked up a pile of credit card charges.

It could also help some adults, who SHOULD be old enough to look out for themselves, but aren't necessarily. :D

Shocking Blu

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Amanita wrote:
Amanita wrote:

The budget tool is a great idea for plenty of reasons. It will probably save your finance department some headaches, because you’re less likely to be dealing with chargebacks from upset parents, whose kids logged into the game and racked up a pile of credit card charges.

Speaking as somebody who accidentally racked up charges on his moms card trying to purchase going rogue way back when, this is my sentiment too.

Sorry mom...

Name: Safehouse
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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Really nice information overall. Two things though that came to mind that hasn't been talked about yet.

1) How will the monthly budget system work, a fixed max amount per month or a wallet type "pool"? Fixed max would that you have only the exact amount you set per month regardless of how much you spent the previous month, and wallet type would just add onto it and build up with the unused amount.
Personally I wouldn't mind both system and making it an individual choice.

We're still firmly in the R&D stage for it, as the unfortunate reality without any semblance of seed data, we can't accurately determine what approach is going to give the greatest benefit. There are a couple of options which come to mind, but we're honestly going to have to continue to experiment to figure out what works best. To my mind, the budget tool works best in regards to being a limit to the amount you can add to the pool at any given time. Even just a timer which has to expire before you can add to your pool would be better than nothing. The only thing I can say for sure is that the budget tool will exist because I know myself all too well, and it turns out that what I wanted to be able to do to protect myself ends up being beneficial to many other people.

Quote:

2) Costume pieces and packs. I would love it if individual pieces indicated if they were part of a pack, especially if the pack is more cost effective compared to buying all those pieces individually.

We have plans in that regard.

It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.

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I hope this doesn't pigeon

I hope this doesn't pigeon-hole MWM into not being able to offer enough items for sale to support the game. That is always my worry in today's free to play environment where your revenue depends mostly on cosmetics. Marvel Heroes was an example imo, where it could not offer enough for purchase and gave away too much so it eventually failed. That is if anyone here frequented their forums a lot and remembers the famously (and quickly) deleted comment by one of the artists that mentioned if it weren't for the console release they would have went under much sooner.

I'm sure MWM has looked much more in depth than me so will assume they ran the numbers and decided what they will get out of the cash shop and optional subscription will be enough. With the little I know, the comforting elements are the ability to sell animations on top of costumes and again assuming, probably selling pre-fab bases or base parts in the future. Not to mention the prerequisite character slots and storage you see in most f2p games. Hopefully that is enough in what I perceive as todays "offer me 95% of the game and I might buy some of the last 5%" attitude of gamers.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:
ThunderCAP wrote:

Imho the >cash shop< items and >unlockable via gameplay< items should be exactly the same, or the whole matter of "you can also unlock it via gameplay" will be gone. Even a slight difference will make a player feel forced to use "gameplay" or "money" to get what he really likes.

I am an example of it: Personally I dislike fancy items, so if the cash shop ones are fancy versions I'd feel forced to take the items via gameplay for each character (which requires to spend/waste much more time and limit my first costume choices for new chars).

But the real and strongest reason to avoid difference is still the 1st one, the idea you want to put in the mind of the players that "you can also unlock the cash shop item by playing" will be non-existent if the items are not identical (the exact same item unlockable in different ways).

Lucky for all of us the City of Titans devs seem to know better than the majority of players what some consequences may lead to, I agree with their actual decisions and hope they won't change things as suggested by some. It's already close to perfection as cash shop planning, anything different would be worse for the players or unprofitable for the devs (we're already very close to that, but still in the long run it should work imho) and the badget-control-feature may even start a trend so that parents actually let the sons play with a limit, compared to uninstalling the game completely.

If you are referring to what Lothic said then I think it is much about the free version (a.k.a the items you get for just buying the game) and the cash shop/unlock version. As in that all types of items should have a free version so that you can make any concept at the basic level, while the more fancy and/or elaborate concepts would most likely need unlocks through gameplay or cash shop.

To be clear when I talked about the idea of "the cash shop can sell fancy versions of things as long as there's always a plain/simple version from free" I was talking about things that were beyond the group of items that you could "either buy in the shop or earn in the game".

As a hypothetical let's say there are 100 items that fall into the category of "either buy in the shop or earn in the game". That's fine. Now beyond that group the store could always sell additional fancy items again as long as they always provide at least some kind of plain/simple version of those items for free in the CharGen. Hope that makes sense.

Bottomline this means a player could theoretically earn all of the "unlockable" items and have all of the "plain" versions of the other items and have all of that without spending an extra dime. The only time the player would spend extra money is if they either wanted to unlock things without playing or if they wanted the other fancy versions of things they already had for free.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

Of course none of this is new: selling cosmetics is only natural for a customization-centric game like ours and is a popular alternative to the dubious practice of Pay to Win items.

First off, I am an anti-cash shop player from the turn of the millennia. I despise having to "go into a cash shop screen" that takes away my immersion, just to spend cash (whether free with sub or not) to BUY ITEMS that used to come in complete games. I'm glad so many others are happy about it (from the first few responses I saw).

"It's only cosmetic!" is apparently the "get out of jail" free card these days. Yet, in a game where cosmetics is Important (gotta get that specific look for our heroes!), cash shop cosmetics IS basically pay to win. Will costume contests outlaw cash shop pieces?

I hated CoX's cape and aura crap. Either my hero has a cape and/or aura from day one, or not at all. It is not something that "just happens", in my small, uninspired mind.

I have to say that games that use cash shops tell me they have no belief that their games are "good enough" to warrant subscriptions. On the other hand, the business aspect of cash shops that are open-ended money grabs I totally understand. I would pay double the sub rate for a COMPLETE GAME that eschewed cash shops. Then I know I am purchasing a COMPLETE game, not one butchered for cash.

Cash shops basically cater to "whales" (the small percentage who spend a lot) and ignore the actual "real players" by design. Follow the money.

I backed the first Kickstarter and have watched the development from afar. I've not posted much here and don't visit often because I want to log in and see a brand new game, not one that is old and I know everything about already. That's just me, though. If this how it's going, it won't be the first time I spent money a game I probably won't be spending much time with. I've got the free game and 3 months "free sub" when it launches, but with a "cosmetic only cash shop" in a super hero game, I'm curious if I'll even use that much of my pledge.

I realize I am only one voice (and wallet) and it looks many others love the idea. My loss won't be felt, I'm sure, but you already have my money. This announcement just hit me all wrong for a Super Hero MMO. There goes the "RPG" aspect behind a cash shop...

- Al

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AlBQuirky wrote:
AlBQuirky wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

Of course none of this is new: selling cosmetics is only natural for a customization-centric game like ours and is a popular alternative to the dubious practice of Pay to Win items.

First off, I am an anti-cash shop player from the turn of the millennia. I despise having to "go into a cash shop screen" that takes away my immersion, just to spend cash (whether free with sub or not) to BUY ITEMS that used to come in complete games. I'm glad so many others are happy about it (from the first few responses I saw).

"It's only cosmetic!" is apparently the "get out of jail" free card these days. Yet, in a game where cosmetics is Important (gotta get that specific look for our heroes!), cash shop cosmetics IS basically pay to win. Will costume contests outlaw cash shop pieces?

I hated CoX's cape and aura crap. Either my hero has a cape and/or aura from day one, or not at all. It is not something that "just happens", in my small, uninspired mind.

I have to say that games that use cash shops tell me they have no belief that their games are "good enough" to warrant subscriptions. On the other hand, the business aspect of cash shops that are open-ended money grabs I totally understand. I would pay double the sub rate for a COMPLETE GAME that eschewed cash shops. Then I know I am purchasing a COMPLETE game, not one butchered for cash.

Cash shops basically cater to "whales" (the small percentage who spend a lot) and ignore the actual "real players" by design. Follow the money.

I backed the first Kickstarter and have watched the development from afar. I've not posted much here and don't visit often because I want to log in and see a brand new game, not one that is old and I know everything about already. That's just me, though. If this how it's going, it won't be the first time I spent money a game I probably won't be spending much time with. I've got the free game and 3 months "free sub" when it launches, but with a "cosmetic only cash shop" in a super hero game, I'm curious if I'll even use that much of my pledge.

I realize I am only one voice (and wallet) and it looks many others love the idea. My loss won't be felt, I'm sure, but you already have my money. This announcement just hit me all wrong for a Super Hero MMO. There goes the "RPG" aspect behind a cash shop...

... Did you miss the entire part about all the cash shop stuff being able to be unlocked in-game?

Like, you never need to go to the cash shop at all.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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AlBQuirky][quote=Shadow
AlBQuirky wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

Of course none of this is new: selling cosmetics is only natural for a customization-centric game like ours and is a popular alternative to the dubious practice of Pay to Win items.

First off, I am an anti-cash shop player from the turn of the millennia. I despise having to "go into a cash shop screen" that takes away my immersion, just to spend cash (whether free with sub or not) to BUY ITEMS that used to come in complete games. I'm glad so many others are happy about it (from the first few responses I saw).

No game can please everyone. Apparently some people don't mind cash shops. Given the extremely generous nature of MWM doing their best to NOT screw over their players with excessive cash grabbing I cannot fault them a bit for wanting to earn at least SOME money via a cash shop.

AlBQuirky wrote:

"It's only cosmetic!" is apparently the "get out of jail" free card these days. Yet, in a game where cosmetics is Important (gotta get that specific look for our heroes!), cash shop cosmetics IS basically pay to win. Will costume contests outlaw cash shop pieces?

Probably not. But again given that MWM is clearly bending-over-backwards to try to provide this game with as many options as possible for its players to get costume items I really do think you're being overly critical here.

AlBQuirky wrote:

I hated CoX's cape and aura crap. Either my hero has a cape and/or aura from day one, or not at all. It is not something that "just happens", in my small, uninspired mind.

The Devs of CoH simply didn't have capes and auras ready to go by the time the game launched. They didn't delay them because they WANTED to. And also back then there was a serious concern about bandwidth issues in the game. The Devs decided to limit capes and auras to higher level characters primarily because they weren't 100% sure the game could handle the load of EVERYONE running around with capes and aura from level one. Again they didn't restrict them like that because they WANTED to - there were serious game loading issues involved with that.

AlBQuirky wrote:

I have to say that games that use cash shops tell me they have no belief that their games are "good enough" to warrant subscriptions. On the other hand, the business aspect of cash shops that are open-ended money grabs I totally understand. I would pay double the sub rate for a COMPLETE GAME that eschewed cash shops. Then I know I am purchasing a COMPLETE game, not one butchered for cash.

Again I believe in this case you are being a little overly critical. MWM has been doing their absolute best to offer a compromise between payment options and game enjoyment. The nature of the gaming industry today is pretty much based on cash shops. Sure in a perfect world it might be nice if a game could work off of 100% subscriptions, but frankly you and I do not live in such a world.

AlBQuirky wrote:

Cash shops basically cater to "whales" (the small percentage who spend a lot) and ignore the actual "real players" by design. Follow the money.

Again you apparently have not really been paying attention here. Once again MWM appears to be doing their very best to offer compromises between catering to both the "whales" and "non-whales". I'm willing to give them a chance to live up to what they are offering here.

AlBQuirky wrote:

I backed the first Kickstarter and have watched the development from afar. I've not posted much here and don't visit often because I want to log in and see a brand new game, not one that is old and I know everything about already. That's just me, though. If this how it's going, it won't be the first time I spent money a game I probably won't be spending much time with. I've got the free game and 3 months "free sub" when it launches, but with a "cosmetic only cash shop" in a super hero game, I'm curious if I'll even use that much of my pledge.

I'm actually somewhat curious as to what you thought this game was going to be become in the first place. I get that you have some preconceived notions about how you think this game is already on some kind of "gloom and doom" path of being "pay-to-win" but I seriously think you've become hyper-cynical based on bad experiences with other games. For you to sit there and automatically assume that MWM is simply going to copy all the "bad features" of other games is fairly narrowminded all things considered.

I'd say at least give MWM a chance to fail in your eyes by actually trying the game before you automatically assume failure is the only possibility here.

AlBQuirky wrote:

I realize I am only one voice (and wallet) and it looks many others love the idea. My loss won't be felt, I'm sure, but you already have my money. This announcement just hit me all wrong for a Super Hero MMO. There goes the "RPG" aspect behind a cash shop...

Even CoH offered a "cash shop" during its last year in operation and by all accounts that part of the game was very successful.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with a cosmetically oriented cash shop in -any- MMO much less a superhero one. The Devs here have already, once again, made it clear that much (if not all) the things offered in their cash shop will also be earnable (FOR FREE) by simply playing the game. I really don't see how that makes their cash shop the typical "evil money grab" you are desperately trying to make it seem like here.

Good luck to you either way...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

The bases, they are covered. *thumbs up emoji*

I need to create a library of emojis for our forum. I've made a few for my personal use.

-----------

Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder,,, and then some.

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AlBQuirky wrote:
AlBQuirky wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

Of course none of this is new: selling cosmetics is only natural for a customization-centric game like ours and is a popular alternative to the dubious practice of Pay to Win items.

First off, I am an anti-cash shop player from the turn of the millennia. I despise having to "go into a cash shop screen" that takes away my immersion, just to spend cash (whether free with sub or not) to BUY ITEMS that used to come in complete games. I'm glad so many others are happy about it (from the first few responses I saw).

"It's only cosmetic!" is apparently the "get out of jail" free card these days. Yet, in a game where cosmetics is Important (gotta get that specific look for our heroes!), cash shop cosmetics IS basically pay to win. Will costume contests outlaw cash shop pieces?

I hated CoX's cape and aura crap. Either my hero has a cape and/or aura from day one, or not at all. It is not something that "just happens", in my small, uninspired mind.

I have to say that games that use cash shops tell me they have no belief that their games are "good enough" to warrant subscriptions. On the other hand, the business aspect of cash shops that are open-ended money grabs I totally understand. I would pay double the sub rate for a COMPLETE GAME that eschewed cash shops. Then I know I am purchasing a COMPLETE game, not one butchered for cash.

Cash shops basically cater to "whales" (the small percentage who spend a lot) and ignore the actual "real players" by design. Follow the money.

I backed the first Kickstarter and have watched the development from afar. I've not posted much here and don't visit often because I want to log in and see a brand new game, not one that is old and I know everything about already. That's just me, though. If this how it's going, it won't be the first time I spent money a game I probably won't be spending much time with. I've got the free game and 3 months "free sub" when it launches, but with a "cosmetic only cash shop" in a super hero game, I'm curious if I'll even use that much of my pledge.

I realize I am only one voice (and wallet) and it looks many others love the idea. My loss won't be felt, I'm sure, but you already have my money. This announcement just hit me all wrong for a Super Hero MMO. There goes the "RPG" aspect behind a cash shop...

I totally understand your sentiment, AIBQuirky. In fact I share your sentiment that a game should be confident enough to rely on subscriptions. This way everything is available for free and nobody has to deal with the hassles of unlocks and cash shops and the complexities that arise therefrom.

But the fact of the matter is that is just not the landscape of the gaming world today. The vast majority of potential players will not be willing to pay to subscribe to a game they have not test-driven for free. And the games that offer a free test drive only up to point see a mass exodus of players at that point where subscriptions are required.

But fear not. Because City of Titans will have a subscription model in addition to being free to play. The numbers aren't exact at the moment so please don't take this for gospel, but let's say for illustration purposes that a subscription costs $15US and subscribers get the equivalent of $18US in cash shop currency. Hence, in effect, subscribers are getting their subscriptions' value of free offerings with the benefit that the player can pick and choose what he or she determines is of most value to them at that time. One day you could want a bunch more character slots, the next you want the cosmic costume pack. Our goal is to make sure that there is always enough value in the cash shop to support subscriptions while also enough free content to keep free players enfranchised. Trust me, as vocal as players are, and using our own metrics, we will know soon enough if we need to tweak our numbers one way or another to keep this balance.

In fact I encourage you to keep your skeptical and, dare I say it, cynical frame of mind. Critical evaluation from players with valid feedback is always welcome.

Bringing City of Titans to all the people.

Public Relations Team

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Treed wrote:
Treed wrote:

In fact I encourage you to keep your skeptical and, dare I say it, cynical frame of mind. Critical evaluation from players with valid feedback is always welcome.

Skepticism/Cynicism is fine where it's warranted and measured. AIBQuirky apparently has an "opinion" on this subject in relation to CoT without any facts to back it up. That kind of "critical evaluation" is almost always less than helpful. Again I wish him/her well regardless...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Personally I'm of the mindset

Personally I'm of the mindset that cash shops make possible the option of items that the devs perceive as being too niche to justify spreading the time/resources across the entire playerbase. If there is some weirdo costume piece that only 5% of the players would ever find useful, that piece might never make it to the game when resources are more devoted to pieces that a majority of the players might use. In CoH, darn near all of us used a cape at some point, maybe multiple times, but how many of us ever used, say, the pegleg? And how many times did you ever use it?

Similar with powersets, I adored the Titan Weapons powerset but it was a bit tricky to get maximum utility out of it, giving that powerset out to all users would've probably been a frustrating experience to new users assuming it'd be as easy as using the Broad Sword set. Setting the Titan Weapons set aside as a purchasable option made sense to this player.

And as reluctant as I am to spend money on items that I could obtain via time ingame, I've no problem other gamers who might not have as much free time as I do and would be willing to trade some $$$ to access the things I picked up in-game. Diff'rent strokes.

I'm a little concerned that CoH's free to play model was *too* generous and might have set expectations too high. Virtually the entire game was available for free, what was behind the paywall? The endgame Incarnate trials which only the diehards would be interested in anyways? I think the Mastermind class was locked? I'm more than fine if CoT is a tad less charitable here if it keeps the doors open.

Bottom line, everything in CoT we'll be paying for *somehow*, if the devs dont have the time or resources to get the stuff into the game then it doesnt make it in. If the choice came down to seeing options in a cash shop (even if I personally don't make the purchase) or the items not available at all, I'd choose the former.

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Baalumbral wrote:
Baalumbral wrote:

Personally I'm of the mindset that cash shops make possible the option of items that the devs perceive as being too niche to justify spreading the time/resources across the entire playerbase. If there is some weirdo costume piece that only 5% of the players would ever find useful, that piece might never make it to the game when resources are more devoted to pieces that a majority of the players might use. In CoH, darn near all of us used a cape at some point, maybe multiple times, but how many of us ever used, say, the pegleg? And how many times did you ever use it?

Similar with powersets, I adored the Titan Weapons powerset but it was a bit tricky to get maximum utility out of it, giving that powerset out to all users would've probably been a frustrating experience to new users assuming it'd be as easy as using the Broad Sword set. Setting the Titan Weapons set aside as a purchasable option made sense to this player.

And as reluctant as I am to spend money on items that I could obtain via time ingame, I've no problem other gamers who might not have as much free time as I do and would be willing to trade some $$$ to access the things I picked up in-game. Diff'rent strokes.

I'm a little concerned that CoH's free to play model was *too* generous and might have set expectations too high. Virtually the entire game was available for free, what was behind the paywall? The endgame Incarnate trials which only the diehards would be interested in anyways? I think the Mastermind class was locked? I'm more than fine if CoT is a tad less charitable here if it keeps the doors open.

Bottom line, everything in CoT we'll be paying for *somehow*, if the devs dont have the time or resources to get the stuff into the game then it doesnt make it in. If the choice came down to seeing options in a cash shop (even if I personally don't make the purchase) or the items not available at all, I'd choose the former.

Well said. Just about the only people I could see being "negatively affected" by the cash store in this game are the subset of people who BOTH can't afford to spend a few extras dollars AND ALSO can't be bothered to spend some time playing the game to get those items for free. If you don't have either the TIME or the MONEY to play the game I'm not sure game playing in general is the right hobby for you.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I understand some of where

I understand some of where you're coming from, AlBQuirky. It took me a long time to come round to accepting the idea of CoT's not requiring a subscription, but I think they are facing the hard facts of the real world nowadays, where the sub model just doesn't cut it anymore. (If I put on my Grumpy Old Man hat, I'd say it in less reasonable words, such as, 'These kids today want everything for free...') So, as others have said, I think MWM is doing their best to navigate the real MMO market so that CoT can be viable without exploiting anyone.

Don't forget that CoT won't actually be free to play, as players will have to buy the game first - so even if they don't subscribe they will have provided MWM income before entering the world. I think that shows a certain amount of confidence in their game while accepting that it's very difficult to make a sub-only MMO viable nowadays. As Treed pointed out, if you do subscribe you'll get more than your money's worth in store credit, so depending how fast you make new costumes over time you could say the costume parts will all effectively be 'free' with your subscription.

Because I don't mind taking the time to unlock costume parts via play, I have a slightly different problem from yours, which is wondering what there will be in the store for me to buy with my subscription Stars. At the moment, it's looking like a subscription for me will be more of a patronage of MWM than actual value for money, but if CoT ends up being what I'm hoping it will be I'll be happy to pay that patronage.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Baalumbral wrote:
Baalumbral wrote:

I'm a little concerned that CoH's free to play model was *too* generous and might have set expectations too high. Virtually the entire game was available for free, what was behind the paywall? The endgame Incarnate trials which only the diehards would be interested in anyways? I think the Mastermind class was locked? I'm more than fine if CoT is a tad less charitable here if it keeps the doors open.

Ditto on this sentiment. I remember many people complaining when CoH went F2P that their Controller or IOs were locked. For me, I thought "this is awesome" because I have so many character slots still unused, my Controller and Mastermind were unlocked, etc. I also was not really into the Incarnate stuff so didn't need to buy anything. I essentially started playing completely free because I'm NOT a big costume nut or need a specific look for RP purposes. In ESO, I mainly purchased a couple months out of 1.5 years I've been playing to 'help' fund further development and to use the unlimited craft bag but still have over 2000 crowns that I've yet to spend. I feel bad for many companies as it is a great value proposition for me but horrible for them in the long term. Hopefully, the purchasable animations will really catch my eye. Regardless, if the gameplay itches that superhero scratch that no other MMO currently can, I will subscribe because I will be getting a great experience for a pittance compared to the hours of fun I will enjoy.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Because I don't mind taking the time to unlock costume parts via play, I have a slightly different problem from yours, which is wondering what there will be in the store for me to buy with my subscription Stars. At the moment, it's looking like a subscription for me will be more of a patronage of MWM than actual value for money, but if CoT ends up being what I'm hoping it will be I'll be happy to pay that patronage.

/thumbsup

Just a side note, if the dance animation stun/sleep/hold is for sale it WILL be a definite purchase for me. Not one person I showed that video couldn't help but laugh. That was just pure joy to watch and makes me smile even now just thinking about it. I'm just imagining that mob thinking "This is so embarrassing, I'm dancing like an idiot while [insert hero/villain name] beats the snot out of each of us."

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Because I don't mind taking the time to unlock costume parts via play, I have a slightly different problem from yours, which is wondering what there will be in the store for me to buy with my subscription Stars. At the moment, it's looking like a subscription for me will be more of a patronage of MWM than actual value for money, but if CoT ends up being what I'm hoping it will be I'll be happy to pay that patronage.

I personally expect to subscribe to this game and for what it's worth I like that subscribers will be earning those "stars" for game store purchases. Despite the stars I'm likely still going to be paying additional money into the store because I'm generally a believer of paying fair value for my entertainment time. If this game entertains me enough that I end up playing it as much as I played CoH I'm probably going to be averaging maybe a "dime per hour" for my entertainment value. If it ever gets to the point where I can't afford a "dime per hour" then I'll graciously stop playing CoT.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I like the idea that we have

I like the idea that we have basic versions of costume items for free, and fancier ones to buy or earn.

It just reinforces my headcanon that Iron Man has always been an MMO character. He started off in a clunky, thick, crude metal suit that looked like it was made out of tin cans. Later his suit got fancier and fancier over time, and he frequently changes colors, styles, and details. He’s one of those guys constantly tweaking and upgrading his equipment. He’s totally an MMO character!

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This raises another question.

This raises another question. The 3 free months of sub gameplay we get or buying the 'box', do those months come with the in-game currency or not? I don't care either way. I plan on subbing for years so it really doesn't matter to me...just curious as it might be nice for those that might not be in the financial position to continue subbing after those 3 free months.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

I like the idea that we have basic versions of costume items for free, and fancier ones to buy or earn.

It just reinforces my headcanon that Iron Man has always been an MMO character. He started off in a clunky, thick, crude metal suit that looked like it was made out of tin cans. Later his suit got fancier and fancier over time, and he frequently changes colors, styles, and details. He’s one of those guys constantly tweaking and upgrading his equipment. He’s totally an MMO character!

Heh, that's what I tended to do with my character costumes in the old game also. :-)

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

This raises another question. The 3 free months of sub gameplay we get or buying the 'box', do those months come with the in-game currency or not? I don't care either way. I plan on subbing for years so it really doesn't matter to me...just curious as it might be nice for those that might not be in the financial position to continue subbing after those 3 free months.

There's a difference between Stars (store currency) and in-game currency (which was called influence/infamy in the old game, or simply gold in many other MMOs.) If you mean Stars (store currency) I assume so. What else would those 3 months of subscription give a player?

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

This raises another question. The 3 free months of sub gameplay we get or buying the 'box', do those months come with the in-game currency or not? I don't care either way. I plan on subbing for years so it really doesn't matter to me...just curious as it might be nice for those that might not be in the financial position to continue subbing after those 3 free months.

There's a difference between Stars (store currency) and in-game currency (which was called influence/infamy in the old game, or simply gold in many other MMOs.) If you mean Stars (store currency) I assume so. What else would those 3 months of subscription give a player?

Sorry, I meant stars. And that seems over-the-top obvious now...that's what you get with a sub XD

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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To address the "either you

To address the "either you have an Aura/Cape or you don't" comment, that is not born out in the comics. Black Panther in particular has gone back and forth regarding cape or no cape, for instance. As for auras, some auras are not permanent, and others have been visible or invisible depending upon artist. Certainly there is RP value (character-building and developing) in having them develop an aura as they get more powerful?

Shocking Blu

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Cinnder wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

This raises another question. The 3 free months of sub gameplay we get or buying the 'box', do those months come with the in-game currency or not? I don't care either way. I plan on subbing for years so it really doesn't matter to me...just curious as it might be nice for those that might not be in the financial position to continue subbing after those 3 free months.

There's a difference between Stars (store currency) and in-game currency (which was called influence/infamy in the old game, or simply gold in many other MMOs.) If you mean Stars (store currency) I assume so. What else would those 3 months of subscription give a player?

Sorry, I meant stars. And that seems over-the-top obvious now...that's what you get with a sub XD

Completely understandable. I'm sure once we are actually all playing the game we'll be able to remember the terms better. I guess it will also help when we have an official name for the IGC. (Unless we already do and I've forgotten it?)

In addition to the Stars, MWM has hinted at some sort of veteran rewards for long-term subscribers, but I don't believe we have any details on that yet.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Mordheim13 wrote:
Mordheim13 wrote:

To address the "either you have an Aura/Cape or you don't" comment, that is not born out in the comics. Black Panther in particular has gone back and forth regarding cape or no cape, for instance. As for auras, some auras are not permanent, and others have been visible or invisible depending upon artist. Certainly there is RP value (character-building and developing) in having them develop an aura as they get more powerful?

Again the only reason CoH ever "restricted" capes and auras had to do with development issues more so than design intentions. The CoH Devs didn't WANT to limit them, they were FORCED to limit them simply because they either hadn't gotten them working by the time the game launched or due to game bandwidth issues.

The presumption is that for CoT the Devs will be able introduce at least a few cape/aura styles into the game by launch time. Whether or not a player chooses to use them or not will be based on their own character concepts.

P.S. I had characters in CoH with multiple costumes. Some of those costumes mixed in capes/auras and some didn't. Whether or not you think your character should -always- have a given aura or cape is totally up to you. There's obviously no game requirement that any character must always have or not have anything like that.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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AlBQuirky wrote:
AlBQuirky wrote:

First off, I am an anti-cash shop player from the turn of the millennia. I despise having to "go into a cash shop screen" that takes away my immersion, just to spend cash (whether free with sub or not) to BUY ITEMS that used to come in complete games. I'm glad so many others are happy about it (from the first few responses I saw).

"It's only cosmetic!" is apparently the "get out of jail" free card these days. Yet, in a game where cosmetics is Important (gotta get that specific look for our heroes!), cash shop cosmetics IS basically pay to win. Will costume contests outlaw cash shop pieces?

I hated CoX's cape and aura crap. Either my hero has a cape and/or aura from day one, or not at all. It is not something that "just happens", in my small, uninspired mind.

I have to say that games that use cash shops tell me they have no belief that their games are "good enough" to warrant subscriptions. On the other hand, the business aspect of cash shops that are open-ended money grabs I totally understand. I would pay double the sub rate for a COMPLETE GAME that eschewed cash shops. Then I know I am purchasing a COMPLETE game, not one butchered for cash.

Cash shops basically cater to "whales" (the small percentage who spend a lot) and ignore the actual "real players" by design. Follow the money.

I backed the first Kickstarter and have watched the development from afar. I've not posted much here and don't visit often because I want to log in and see a brand new game, not one that is old and I know everything about already. That's just me, though. If this how it's going, it won't be the first time I spent money a game I probably won't be spending much time with. I've got the free game and 3 months "free sub" when it launches, but with a "cosmetic only cash shop" in a super hero game, I'm curious if I'll even use that much of my pledge.

I realize I am only one voice (and wallet) and it looks many others love the idea. My loss won't be felt, I'm sure, but you already have my money. This announcement just hit me all wrong for a Super Hero MMO. There goes the "RPG" aspect behind a cash shop...

I understand where you're coming from, but the problem is caused some what by the players.

"Oh! Hey! Look! A brand new game!" *leaves one game to play another, not caring about the investment put in*

"What? Pay a monthly sub to play a game? They should just be free!" *doesn't think 15 dollars a month is worth it*

Just playing the game 10 hours a month makes it equal to going to the arcades from before, when people would pay 25 cents to play 10 minutes, and that's being generous with how much time they got in with a quarter. :p

Then there's a matter of just how many players are out there to play the MMO.

As for the RPG aspect behind a cash shop, the cash shop should always be meta. Why would some costume pieces even be locked into an enemy? Can't have under arm fins without beating up the sea race? From an RPG stand point, that seems silly.

I'd love for MMOs to go back to 15/month but it needs to keep the players coming, so they keep the content coming and people have low attention spans now.

"What?! Stay with a game without new content every month?! NO WAY!" is what companies have to deal with now.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I'd love for MMOs to go back to 15/month but it needs to keep the players coming, so they keep the content coming and people have low attention spans now.

Personally I blame Millennials and Smart Phones for this. At least I'm old enough to get away with "get off my lawn" thoughts like that. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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[quote=Baalumbral
Baalumbral wrote:

I'm a little concerned that CoH's free to play model was *too* generous and might have set expectations too high. Virtually the entire game was available for free, what was behind the paywall? The endgame Incarnate trials which only the diehards would be interested in anyways? I think the Mastermind class was locked? I'm more than fine if CoT is a tad less charitable here if it keeps the doors open.

According to Posi's AMA on reddit, going F2P was "extremely profitable" for the company, which was still in the internet era of when going F2P was the death-knell of a game. I'm not saying that CoT should adopt it on nostalgic grounds alone, but evidence points that when instituted appropriately, F2P can be a viable business model.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I'd love for MMOs to go back to 15/month but it needs to keep the players coming, so they keep the content coming and people have low attention spans now.

Personally I blame Millennials and Smart Phones for this. At least I'm old enough to get away with "get off my lawn" thoughts like that. ;)

I wish it was a millennial thing. Then we'd just have one group to blame on it, but it's not. Known to many people through the age ranges who thought that way.

Could even do the simple math of "You spend 5 dollars a day on coffee, if not more, for what is likely an hour of enjoyment, but think 15 a month on a game needs you to play it every day for 8 hours?" o.O

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SavageFist wrote:
SavageFist wrote:

I hope this doesn't pigeon-hole MWM into not being able to offer enough items for sale to support the game. That is always my worry in today's free to play environment where your revenue depends mostly on cosmetics. Marvel Heroes was an example imo, where it could not offer enough for purchase and gave away too much so it eventually failed. That is if anyone here frequented their forums a lot and remembers the famously (and quickly) deleted comment by one of the artists that mentioned if it weren't for the console release they would have went under much sooner.

I played Marvel Heroes and I find it hard to believe that the reason mentioned above is the reason for them going under. According to David Brevik, there was a lot going on behind the scenes that he couldn't confirm or deny, but things were pretty frosty between Disney and Gazillion for a while, which certainly didn't help the situation. Also, from a player perspective, their balance changes were utter garbage (Omegarbage, amirite?), especially their nerf to Dashes on the grounds of "it encourages players to speed through content and not appreciate it" instead of just saying that it was to make it easier to code between PC and their impending console launch.
The best, and maybe only, take away from Marvel Heroes is to be open and honest with the playerbase. They make b!tch, gripe, and moan about whatever change, be it for balance or whatever, but if you're honest with them, they'll at least respect you in the end.

jtpaull
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Joined: 01/27/2015 - 15:00
SavageFist wrote:
SavageFist wrote:

I hope this doesn't pigeon-hole MWM into not being able to offer enough items for sale to support the game. That is always my worry in today's free to play environment where your revenue depends mostly on cosmetics. Marvel Heroes was an example imo, where it could not offer enough for purchase and gave away too much so it eventually failed. That is if anyone here frequented their forums a lot and remembers the famously (and quickly) deleted comment by one of the artists that mentioned if it weren't for the console release they would have went under much sooner.

I'm sure MWM has looked much more in depth than me so will assume they ran the numbers and decided what they will get out of the cash shop and optional subscription will be enough. With the little I know, the comforting elements are the ability to sell animations on top of costumes and again assuming, probably selling pre-fab bases or base parts in the future. Not to mention the prerequisite character slots and storage you see in most f2p games. Hopefully that is enough in what I perceive as todays "offer me 95% of the game and I might buy some of the last 5%" attitude of gamers.

I've shared this before a while ago on a different thread but thought it might be relevant to your question.

And I think this is really understating the player base numbers. That's only 28k new players in the first years. 100k new players in the first year looks like this:

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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