Are they all tied to one damage type?
Let's say I want a fire melee style character, but don't want just fire (or whatever CoT will call it) damage, but also smashing damage, as I'm punching the people with fists that are set on fire.
Doable? Not doable, but can always use fire animated fists with whatever damage type set you want?
All powers use a single type fornapplyjng Damage.
Fire is an aesthetic so you can have a Power with physical damage look like fire.
We may at one point create Power Set Boosters which partially affect the damage type of powers in the set.
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Also there's the option of grabbing a melee tertiary that deals a different damage type.
So while all your attacks look like fire some deal energy damage and others physical.
Not quite what you asked for but it would suffice until if/when power set boosters are a thing.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
A physical fire attack could involve an explosion doing concussive damage if you want to justify aesthetics with a dash of realism.
Yeah, there are three types of damage: Physical, Energy and Exotic
and there are three types of attacks: Melee, Ranged and AoE
That's it.
So there are up to 9 combinations to defend (and/or resist) against.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Here's hoping we get some sets at some point that allow us to mix and match.
And now, which would fire fall under? Energy or Exotic?
Fire would be energy by default. Mental attacks would be exotic.
So you could pick an exotic type of damage and give it a fire aesthetic.
I have definite plans for tertiary powers to supplement my main attacks. I'm betting when we go live there will be serious number crunching threads putting together amazing power combos to deadly effect.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
My understanding is that fire is an “FX Theme”. You can apply it to any power you want. The damage type comes from the power, not the appearance of the power.
For example, if you are a Ranger and have the Lethality powerset, then your firebolts/fireballs/flaming arrows/whatever do physical damage because that’s what Lethality does.
If you have Vampiric Blast, your attack does exotic damage. You can make it look like purple fire or green lightning or whatever, but it will do exotic damage because that’s what the powerset does.
Atrophic Blast does energy damage, whatever FX Theme you use. And so on.
Here is the article talking about powers and how themes are visual:
https://cityoftitans.com/content/what-we-can-do-powers
Whatever you want it to be.
You could make it physical if you wanted.
Atrophic as a set makes the most thematic sense as it does damage over time. But it can be whatever you want it to be.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
A lot of what it sounds like I'll have to do, is just base the chosen set, off of what gives me the animations I most prefer, over what makes thematic sense in terms of damage type.
Honestly at the moment I think I’m going to do that too. Basically I’m thinking, what do I want the power to do visually, and then what powerset mechanically fits that?
I am in the same boat as Brand X and Atama at this point. the actual damage type is secondary to the overall look of the character and the animations involved. the closer I can get to a character concept visually is much more important than the actual damage type being produced by said character.
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
OMG, that mook's fire attack is a Exotic! Gotta switch my defense toggle!
Yes, I kinda like that we can attach a different aesthetic to different damage types. You get characters that aren't what you expect and you can create much more varying characters than being stuck with just one aesthetic/damage type. Just opens the door to all sorts of builds to match concepts!
Definitely more important to be able to create my concept visually than have a particular damage type produced. Of course this seems much more flexible so I can see frequently having the best of both worlds...muahhh ha ha
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
The thing that I have wondered this whole time is if there is functionally going to be a difference between a fire and ice(etc...) attack/defense. So the question would be if you can have different elemental options for exotic damage, or is it all treated equal. Meaning will a fire exotic attack do less damage than an ice exotic attack to a fire exotic defense, or will they be the same?
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No. The aesthetics do not impact mechanics. Hence the term Aesthetci Decoupling.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I wasn't talking about the aesthetics, I was asking if there would be elemental exotic damage/defense types. And by your response I assume the answer is no.
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It will be funny to see Electric Armor hero being taken down by an electric blaster :p
Damage types: Physical, Energy, Exotic
Upon further reading though, Melee looks to be all Physical attacks. Only one attack type (Massive Melee: Swipe) so far, has a DoT component to it. Hopefully there will be attacks in the other Melee sets also capable of this. Wait and see I guess.
Color it to look like anything you like.
Glowing Purple Ice Attacks
or Flaming Orange Attacks
etc, etc. Only Physical damage.
This is exactly the point I was trying to get across. I was wondering if you could set a specific element to your self, totally independent of the aesthetics. Meaning that you can have any look you want, but deep down you deal fire damage and are also resistant to it(whether you could mix and match damage/defense resistance(ex. fire damage buff/ice defense buff) is a possibility). So when you go up against a fire enemy you have a defense buff against him but you do less damage, but opposite for an ice/water enemy.
But again, the way Tannim described it, it seems like damage is damage, and elemental is merely just for show. I may be wrong but that is how I perceived the response.
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No Elemental Damage Types. Just: Physical, Energy and Exotic.
Yes, but elements can be considered a subset of Exotic
https://thedivision.wiki.fextralife.com/Exotic+Damage+Resilience
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Well, that goes back to "Look at my concept! I just shoot bullets! But it's an exotic damage set!" vs "Haha I'm invunerable to physical damage!"
Stuff like that. :p
Or...
I'm immune to psychic attacks! Though, one psychic uses energy damage, one uses physical, and another uses exotic, all for the same concept.
The Psychic Set is only Exotic damage.
guys, Damage types are 3! Physical, Energy and Exotic
Physical: all Melees, Gravity, Power Control, Force Control and Blast, Lethality
Exotic: Psychic, Illusions, Vampiric
Energy: Atrophic Aura and Blast
this is what is planned and set for Release.
I understand what is planned for release, but my overall question is: Are elemental considerations like the ones I mentioned going to be put in place at some point in the future, or will it always be where elemental differences won't have any functional affect and just be for show?
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Defenses are set up the same way.
Defenses/Resistances are Damage Types (Physical, Energy and Exotics) AND Attack Types (Melee, Ranged, AoE and Control)
VISUALS are entirely up to us.
Just For Show.
There aren't elemental attacks defenses like fire, ice, etc, at all. That's just an aesthetic. While you may not think that's what you were talking about, it is. So a bad guy with ice armor will be affected the exact same no matter what aesthetic you choose (fire, ice, lightning, etc). Energy is the encompassing type closer to what you are talking about, both for offensive damage type and defensive damage resistance, but that's the bottom line. It isn't broken down further into Energy - Ice or Energy - Fire.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Well, I guess the plus side of having elements completely thrown out of the equation is not having to worry about it. When you have "ice" armor and you come across the Human Torch, you can proudly stand your ground :p
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Just don't forget to ask: "Is that Fire a Physical, Energy or Exotic Damage Type?" :D
What everyone has said about there being only 3 damage types is correct. There is no splitting them up into other types of damage to alter combat in anyway.
We do have an environmental tag system coded under the hood which we plan to expand upon post launch (and possibly the first major update unlocking post leve 30 content - basically the other half of the game). These don’t change your combat stats for causing or protecting from damage but are intended for environmental interactions. Again separate from aesthetics.
As to the electric attacker damaging the electric defender - maybe one has a form of “physical” electric shock powers that affects the physical body or the sudden temperature change causes a shock wave upon impact.
The electric defender has an “energy based” electric suit which is weaker to physical contact than energetic reactions.
Or, just make up your own reasoning as to “why”. One is psychic based, the other a magic construct. Their interactions are “weird”.
I did have 1 Melee set for energy damage and 1 for exotic initially planned for launch but as we continued development and looked at what was possible to get done for launch that would also set us up for future develoment, plans changed.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
If you look at the article I linked earlier in the thread, the tentative powerset names they listed included things like “burning” and “cold”. Since then the powerset names are much more generic, I assume because they want to separate the mechanics of a set (which are baked into the powers) and the appearance (which is up to you). So there is no “burning” or “cold” set of powers; any power is “burning” or “cold” based on how you choose to skin it.
The end result is that it becomes much easier to make the character you have in your mind. Less compromise, you don’t have to go with the powers that seem close to what you want your character to look like. You make them yourself. As longtime fans of the superheroes MMO genre themselves, MWM knows what players want because they are those players. They really get it. I’m so excited to see what I can make. :)
The design changed.
Originally aesthetic decoupling was more limited.
We were designing sets based on a mechanical theme that would also pair with a range of aesthetics.
Burning Blast as an example. The mechanic was damage over time. The related aesthetics was “stuff that burns” which could be fire, acid, stinging wind, and so on. Note it had nothing to do with damage type.
As we developed or systems what became apparent was that the production pipeline and back end system to pair aesthetics with sets would become problematic over time.
The solution was to change the design concept to become more open ended. Power Sets could have any aesthetic applied to them. Which meant we also had to change some of the power set designs as well.
We changed sets to be purely designed around a mechanical theme without a structured range of possible aesthetics. Burning Blast became Atrophic Blast. Some of the powers changed to suit the new mechanics applicable to the set.
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I think your new design is much better, I love the freedom we have. At the same time, the mechanics are less open so you can still balance different powersets.
Personally I was (and still am slightly) concerned about not having specific sets/damage types like "burning blast" and "cold defense" I loved how each set in the old game had it's own theme and felt slightly different from the others. There were SO many choices, and I love choices. Don't get me wrong it sounds like we'll have even more choices than before in this game. However what concerns me is not knowing what the actual power is compared to how it looks. I'm sure you can check someone's character page to find out what type of damage they're actually doing, or something to that effect, but when they're coming at you full force in a pvp zone you can't really take the time to open their character page to see which type of damage they're throwing at you. You'll just see they're throwing chairs, and think "... well chairs are a physical object, so it must be physical damage, my physical resistance is pretty high and yet I'm getting rekt so is it exotic damage, or energy? I'll check their character shee- Oh I'm dead"
Understandable concern. Which is why every set may have strengths but weaknesses aren’t a hole in the resistance.
There is also a very different layer of protection to consider which is Defense. In our game, Defense is a sort of positional resistance. It reduces the value of an attack by the style of kind of defense vs the style and kind of attack.
Defense will be Melee, Ranged, and AoE styles and can be vs. Damage, Debuffs, or Controls.
Defense occurs before Residtance. Even our resistance heavy sets have some Defense available.
What you will find is that you will get hit and see if how well the dange was applied after Defense and you will know if it is something to react to with a Reserve or a self heal etc.
So while the guy shooting bullets at you may be doing a damage type you are weak against, it isn’t an automatic death sentence.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I had a similar concern but after I took some time to think it over and look at how MWM indexed the damage types I felt a bit better. The problem is going to be how they message it and educate the player base. The hurdle is going to be there for the user to figure out how to birth their concept in the Character Creator.
I do not see myself creating a wildly strange effect/aesthetic concept. I see the possibility of the scenario you put forth happening. The people that make their supers faithful to comic book standards won't be a problem. It will be the joke characters and the occasional PvP player that will have exotic guns and whatnot.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
Thanks for the reply! Will there be little damage numbers on hit? If so will those numbers be differentiated based on the type of damage? For instance if I'm hit by a flying chair a little blue "100 dmg" pops up so I'll know they're using energy? Or if it was physical a different colored number will pop up?
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
This has some merit. I think they may have difficulty making it compatible with colorblindness, but I like the idea. I think a character would be able to tell whether they took energy or physical or some other kind of damage, therefore representing it in the UI should not be immersion-breaking.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
If they made little icons next to the damage numbers it could bypass color blindness. Like a fist for physical and a little bolt for energy and a brain for exotic or something along those lines
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"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
This is giving me Pokemon card game flashbacks xD
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
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I'd like to know this also. Tannim, did you mean to answer this with your post immediately following the question? I'm not sure if this is just on my end, but all I saw was you quoting turett with no additional response.
Spurn all ye kindle.
his response was in the last of his quoted responses he said "a noteworthy suggestion I'll pass that to the ui team"
Ah thanks, I didn't notice that line sandwiched in there. Nevermind.
Actually, what would be really nice if the display of floaty damage numbers were a player option. Even better, allow the player to decide the colours that will appear on their client, in case they have any troubles seeing certain colours.
Spurn all ye kindle.
I remember this old video.
[youtube]unL4rnpQRjA[/youtube]
Was this official or something else? Or not related to CoT? I forgot, may have to find that thread.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
I'm pretty sure that was AmIEvil play testing through different animations and whatnot, so as far as "official" goes, I would say it is him working on it for the company, but not "official" as it's going to be even remotely what the finished product will be. This is just my speculation of course
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"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
This is a pretty good idea. One game that I have seen where I actually like this a lot is Fortnite. It is very easy to see when you are doing damage to enemies even from a mile away. And giving the player a bit of control on the color( and maybe size) is a good way to ensure that there "shouldn't" be any problems.
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
Even with the limited information we have available I can see some excellent potential for character themes that mesh very nicely with the mechanics.
As a very simple example: You have a ranged archetype with a lethality primary that you've applied fiery aesthetics to. So you've got a character who deals physical damage with lots of fiery bolts, balls and general inflammatory shenanigans. Later on you pick up a ranged tertiary with an exotic damage type, as from a gameplay perspective being able to harm highly physically damage resistant enemies is probably useful diversification. It seems very plausible you can apply fiery aesthetics to your tertiary too, and play with the colouration so you get more 'plasma' or 'acetylene torch' type effects. You get a consistent set of powers, aesthetically, with a consistent backstory that the character produces a load of fire from whatever their schtick is, and has some 'ultra high temperature' powers that cut through physical armour.
To put things into perspective, (the real) Champions only has Energy Damage, Physical Damage, and Ego Damage. Similarly, there are only Energy Defense, Physical Defense, and Ego Defense, the latter of which most characters don't even have.
Where things get complicated is that you can buy, for example, "+20 Energy Defense only vs Fire." Also, a character can be vulnerable or susceptible to particular attack forms that can be as specific as the GM will allow. e.g "2X STUN from marshmallow attacks on a sunny day." Still, for most characters, all these complications can be summed up as narrow windows of vulnerability or resistance to a few specific attack forms.
After playing and GMing many different rules systems, I am convinced that this approach best simulates the consistently inconsistent way that comic books deal with the problem of assessing damage to people and things.
For example, you might think that Colossus, with Body Transformation to Steel, might be vulnerable to electrical attacks, but to my knowledge that hasn't really come up. He's just tough all around. Similarly, the Thing's rocky hide might seem like it would be vulnerable to vibration or sonic attacks, but again he seems to shrug off most forms of physical damage equally.
One character's ice armor may melt at the first touch of a fire attack, but another's might resist fire best of all.
In short, most supers exhibit broad-based defenses with only a few vulnerabilities at most. Apparently elemental attacks vary in the way that their elemental properties interact with the environment, or with other characters.
MWM seems to be leaning toward this type of individualistic approach, which fits in well with the source material.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Personally I see it the other way, due to the higher conductivity of his skin it gives a kinda faraday-cage like effect and thus protect him more than normal humans.
Not even that. Animations are bound to props and emanation points, not sets. And if you don't choose one it will probably default to your bare hands.
Yes, the Psychic Set. However I can still build my toon to look like he was using psychic attacks while the actual set is Lethality.
It might even be a psychic Enforcer... simply by swapping out animations and effects.
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_HUdf89hI8]Send out your signal, call in your hero
I kidnapped his lady, now his power's are zero.
[/url]
Color a bunch of your attacks pink and your most of the way there to making a character with psychic powers. Just try to remember one thing...
[YouTube]Tu9_C90lTfA[/YouTube]
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Now a new melee set question!
Will we be able to use the same animations between the sets? Can I use a big knockout super strength looking punch on all the melee sets, or is it just limited to Super Strength? Can my Super Strength using Enforcer make the attacks look like graceful martial art attacks?
Aesthetics are not limited very much. You can use the same punch animation regardless of the speed of the cast time.
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
That's nice to know :)
Can pick the set I like the feel of best, while keeping the animations I like the best!
So... what you're saying is... I can make One Punch Man?
I think he's saying you could pick "Punch Animation X" for a large number of different melee powers and the game will dynamically adjust the speed of the animation based on the given power's cast time. This is how multiple generic animations can be "reused" for multiple powers.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Now I want to make the super hero, Split Kick! Every attack is a jump up split kick!
Did you know that Chuck Norris was once a playable character in Mortal Kombat, except when someone first tried to playtest him, all the attack buttons only did roundhouse kicks? The programmers thought something was broken, but Chuck Norris set'em straight with a few well-placed roundhouse kicks to the face. (This is a joke. I apparently need to be more obvious.)
Alternate name: Crotch Target