I'm not sure if that was ever addressed. but I really gots ta know.
thanks for any answer.
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Sun, 06/24/2018 - 19:41
#1
Can Super Speedsters run on water?
I think something was said about there being like, combo travel powers. So like if you have superspeed and wall crawling then you can run up walls.
But not 100% sure.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I would love it if COT was developing the game with these scenarios in mind. If you are fast enough I dont see why you wouldn't be able to run on water but the minute you slow down or stop you sink.
And once you are in the water and try to SS, you cant run as fast as if you were on land, but you can move faster than a regular person.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
For some reason I read 'water' as 'walls.'
Don't know why.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
There have been other threads on this but physics-wise a superspeeder should be able to "run" up and/or along vertical surfaces at least within certain limits depending on the circumstances. The problem is that I would -not- expect this game to be so "accurate" with the real world details to be able to determine when it would be appropriate and when it wouldn't. For example I would not expect every surface in this game to maintain realistic coefficient of friction values to be able to calculate second-by-second when a speeder running on a vertical/angled surface should start to fall off or not. Basically it would be far, far easier for the game to NOT allow speeders to move along vertical surfaces than to try to simulate it with any degree of "realism".
On the other hand it would probably be relatively easy to allow a speeder to effectively run on water in CoT as Wolfgang8565 described. The game could simply require the speeder to be at "full speed" before being over water to treat it like solid ground. At any moment the speeder drops below their "full speed" they would fall into the water and as mentioned could not zoom back up to full speed again until they got back out of the water.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
In theory if the water is designed with water volume to simulate water physics, it maybe possible to do this.
It would require a custome code that checks if the character is in the water volume with a secondary check of the character’s movement at a specific speed.
There would probably need to be invisible geometry terrain beneath the water’s surface this code is set to interact with. Then when the character is running at or above a specific speed, the invisible terrain kicks in and the character runs on its surface making it appear as if to run on water.
The problem being if the character is allowed to swim below the surface and does this, they could effectively be trapped inside the invisible terrain.
There may be another requirement to check the z-axis of the character and the terrain.
Again this is all theoretical. There could be a bunch of other problems with this, but if I were to do it, at least that is how I’d start. Maybe one day we’ll get to try it. Don’t quote me on that though, I make no promise on this. Just me speaking purely hypothetical.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
What if it was just an alternate animation for when you're swimming while your superspeed is activated?
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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I know WoW has a few mounts and there's some abilities that allow characters to walk on water... But I don't think those are speed dependant.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Yeah like a bunch of other cool ideas I wouldn't expect or need to be able to have "superspeeders run on water" by the time this game launches. Obviously CoH worked pretty well as a game for 8.5 years without it. That could be something you guys could figure out post-launch.
Still when compared to other travel power challenges (like figuring out how superspeeders could run up walls) I suspect getting some workable implementation of "speeding over water" would end up being relatively easier to accomplish.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The mounts don't seem to be (I don't have any, myself); the other abilities definitely are not speed dependant. In fact, on two of the three such abilities I know of, you don't want to have them activated when falling into water, because they cause your character to react as if the water is a solid surface.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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Since nobody has pointed it out, I’d like to mention that DCUO lets you run on water with superspeed.
Well that's good to know - maybe MWM can end up implementing it in CoT in a similar way.
Does DCUO let you swim underwater or does it treat it like CoH mostly did? It seems the big factor for how "superspeed running on water" would work in CoT (or any game really) is dependent on whether water is treated as a 2D surface or if it's more like a 3D volume.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
m
I believe they used the method I described without the speed paratemer and just a “is super speed on off?” check.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
The devs have said all travel powers will have a sort of progression that players can earn. This is from a thread on swinging:
What he seems to be talking about is that at certain points you will get the option to either improve a travel power you already have or acquire a new one.
By the context of the discussion around swinging, this improvement will not be limited to simple increase in speed. It will also include more utilitarian improvements. In the case of super speed these improvements could include running on water or walls.
So you can go from a guy who just runs fast to a guy who can run very fast and ignores some laws of physics like running on water.
Personally I think DCUO got comic book super speed spot on (actually I think they got all travel spot on). When you take that games version of super speed and combine it with CoT's travel power progression idea it seems a perfect fit. If you just want to run fast take super speed, if you want to run fast and run on water/walls take that improvement when you get the chance.
Here is a nice long video of DCUO's super speed in action (including water running and stopping over water).
[youtube]IyV9tAR17WM[/youtube]
One caveat I would like in the ability to run over water or walls is a press to activate hotkey for the 'cling to' aspect of super speed. In DCUO, as far as I remember, when you use super speed you automatically cling to any surface you come into contact with making its use very disorienting at times.
That seems a bit weird. If that's true it would imply a superspeeder in DCUO could effectively stand still on top of a body of water as long as they had their superspeed power toggled on. That doesn't seem very reasonable to me unless the presumption is that the guy is "jogging in place" superfast.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
In DCUO if you use super speed over water you run atop it. When you stop you fall in and begin treading. If you again start to run you have a short period of acceleration swimming before you pop up and run over the water again.
Thanks for the clarification. That's much more "realistic" than the idea that a superspeeder could effectively "stand still" on water. So unlike what Tannim said there must be some kind of speed parameter check as part of how it's implemented.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'm not sure what you mean by 'speed parameter check'. If you mean that a stationary character in water has a more difficult time accelerating to max speed than a stationary character on land then no. Being on land or water does not change the time it takes to reach max speed in DCUO. Acceleration is a constant and the only resulting difference with the start location (water or land) is a function of animations not mechanics.
I was referring to what Tannim was saying when he thought DCUO did not rely on a "speed parameter" to determine how superspeeding over water worked. Basically I wasn't talking about your points about "acceleration from a dead stop" at all.
To be clear DUCO requires you to be superspeeding over water lest you fall into the water. Thus a "speed parameter check".
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
No they don't. They only need to check if you are moving or not together with having SS activated, actual speed can still be irrelevant.
*sigh* OK I'll bother to make myself hyper crystal clear here: When both Tannim and I used the term "speed parameter" we're talking about a simple movement check. The issue if there's a MINIMUM speed you have to be moving is an entirely distinct matter/concern.
Perhaps if Tannim had used "movement check" instead of "speed parameter" things would have been more obvious here.
P.S. Personally it makes more sense to me for there to be a "minimum speed threshold" rather that a binary "are you moving at all?" check but I accept it's likely easier for a game to handle the simple binary check all thing considered.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I get what you meant Lothic and yes, the game does check to see that 1) you have your super-speed power activated and 2) you’re moving around at that speed. In that case it does have a speed parameter.
There’s no underwater or Z-axis swimming, it’s all surface swimming. Travel powers in DCUO are pretty limited, in that you either fly, skim (which is identical in every way to flying except you’re standing on discs instead of moving horizontally), glide (flying without the ability to hover; you move or you fall, and this is part of the acrobatics travel set), and super-speed. Each travel method gives a way to traverse water.
Ok, I understand what you mean now. Yes DCUO does have these checks, not just for water running but also wall running.
While you did mean it that way I'm sure Tannim didn't since he specifically said "Then when the character is [b]running at or above a specific speed[/b]". That to me at least means checking actual speed and not just movement.
Devil's always in the details. ;)
Regardless it's good to know a game like DCUO already did this. That ought to serve as a good reference point for MWM.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The big difference between what DCUO does and what CoT's problems stem from, is that DCUO has no underwater movement. I believe what Tannim was saying about complications was the transition from above the water, swimming on the surface and movement below the surface, and trying to figure out which is which. It seems to me that a simple check of the z-axis value would be all we need to discriminate between them.
Then we would need to come up with an animation for superspeed swimming!
https://youtu.be/kX1hVI9e728?t=69
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Yeah I should have specified DCUO was super speed activated [i]and[/i]directiknsl movement active checks.
It is the simplest solution really. That is if you don’t have to worry about going under the water. Once that happens the simple solution fails. There are ways around that, just takes some more coding to resolve.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
is going underwater all that important to the game? Does that mean we can get underwater zones?
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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If I were to make this I wouldn’t want preclude the possibility is all.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
One of DCUO’s problems (and I know I ranted about it on this board before) is that some of the most iconic characters from DC Comics can’t be properly represented in the game. You have no swimming so no Aqua Man or Black Manta. Well, Aqua Man is in the game, but he’s literally a fish out of water. They have a whole series of missions dealing with Atlanteans but it all takes place on dry land.
It would be a big coup if CoT can do better. Even if it’s just with “underwater swimming zones” like Lemuria in Champions Online. Though I’d like real water swimming closer to a game like WoW (heck even the original EverQuest had it early on).
allright well then, how about this? Running on water is just another animation, it's an alternate animation for when you have superspeed activated and you're on the top layer of the water, mechanicly you aren't running on anything, you're still swimming but you look like you're running on top of the water, while if you go under the water it's just a speed up version of the normal sqimming animation. Could this work? I asked this before but I don't think you saw it since you didn't reply to it.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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We could look at how other games do it for a little inspiration, but not the full answer; because I don't think ANY other game has a movement mode specifically designed for the surface of the water if it's not a boat that also has underwater movement.
In some games I've played, there is a set animation for swimming on the surface that is completely different from the animation for swimming under the surface. In order to activate the subsurface movement mode, you actually need to continue to drive your character under the surface for more than a second or two before it gets the hint that you want to dive. I think Rift has this and I think Archeage does, too, if I'm not mistaken. (don't get me wrong, a number of games let us dive under water, but they don't necessarily have this discriminator to perform the transition) Then as soon as you get your head above water again, it reverts to surfaced mode swimming. It would seem to me that as long as we are in surfaced mode we should be able to use superspeed to hop back up to run on the surface. And if we have pressed ourselves into a dive and undersea swimming mode is active then superspeed should just make us swim very very fast. I can now see player characters trying to superspeed themselves out of the water like an SLBM. And I can see some flying heroes measuring the heights to see who can launch themselves the highest. Oh, the fun of emergent player activities.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I know that in WoW if you have a power/mount that allows you to move over water to be able to enter the water all you need to do is look downwards.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
well I'm not really saying that we need another movement mode just called "speed running on water" just that when speeding while on the top of the water the animation gets switched.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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I recall having to be careful where I used Super Speed in DCUO. One could get stuck doing Loops in a doorway, or Hallway, or on a Lamppost.
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Fireheart
That sounds like a "symptom" of what Brainbot was trying to explain with the following:
I'd agree that having the superspeed power in DCUO automatically apply this "cling" effect sounds less than desirable. Hopefully if MWM considers something like this they would make it something we could manually select (with a hotkey) as Brainbot suggests.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Yeah if I’m in a police station I almost always turn it off and walk because it’s easier to get around.
DCUO had fairly unique mechanics to their travel powers.
At character creation you could choose one of 3 movement powers (4 if you bought the final one from the store). In that game they were called movement powers because they had two modes, for lack of a better term.
One mode consisted of all the utilitarian aspects of the movement power which not only included a moderately quick travel but combat actions associated with that movement. For example, super speed had a phasing ability that could be used in place of a dodge to avoid damage.
The other mode was used purely for travel and did not allow combat actions at all. This travel power was in most cases much faster than the utilitarian movement speed and some had an 'auto run' component. For example activating your Super Sonic Flight greatly increases your flying speed but you were always moving forward, no attacks can be made and your turning radius is affected.
I bring this up because I again want to point out that the devs have said the travel powers in this game will have improvements that can be taken for each travel power.
This means that some of the more specialized aspects of a particular travel power can be an improvement and not a core aspect of the travel power. In the case of super speed an improvement could be the ability to run along water or walls.
If CoT also had a travel power improvement that was similar to the pure travel mode in DCUO then water running could be even easier to implement.
Because I need to keep it straight in my head I will explain it completely.
At character creation you take super speed as a free travel power. If your character enters a body of water they swim only.
Once you earn your next travel power ability you choose the super speed improvement pure travel. This mode is much faster than regular super speed and it includes the ability to water/wall run but it is an auto run function. This means in order to stop you must turn off the pure travel mode. Doing so over water means you fall in. If you are in water you cannot turn on the super speed pure travel. If you leap from the water you can again turn on the pure travel. If you wish to dive below the water you must turn off pure travel (because the super speed pure travel does not allow you to direct an up or down motion only side to side due to the auto run aspect).
Having the water barrier act as a restriction to the use of pure travel and its water run component the chance of a character getting stuck under an imaginary barrier is unlikely. Water would act in a similar manner as any power restricted zone would except it would be limited to this power (and possibly other powers that should be restricted as well). Water running does not have to be an overly complicated mechanic it can be a simple 'above the water barrier it can be used, below the barrier it can't' ability.
Travel powers is the ONLY thing they got right, until you start sticking to everything like spider-man. That game is bad & poorly developed. I guess it is a good reference point in the sense that if they can do it, anyone can.
Gonna be interesting to see how SoH and CoT handles travel powers.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
I know COT means City of Titans, but it's gonna take me awhile before I see COT and not thing Circle of Thorns.
I suppose we could make a " create oobleck" power.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oobleck
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.