Fall 2018?

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The Hybrid
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Fall 2018?

https://twitter.com/cityoftitansmmo?lang=en

The official City of Titans twitter says the game will drop in Fall of this year. Is that the definite plan? I'd like to discuss this, because I would love to be able to play this game by then and finally scratch that superhero itch I've had for years.

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I highly doubt that.

I highly doubt that.

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Says so on the Twitter banner

Says so on the Twitter banner. Unless, that's not the actual twitter... except it sure looks like it. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

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'Fall 2018' has been

'Fall 2018' has been discussed for their "possible" beta release (you can even find this in the FAQ if you scroll to the bottom of the webpage). Given how long betas can run for (which can be anywhere from several months to another year or more in most cases), an official launch for CoT probably wouldn't be until at least early-to-mid 2019. But that's just me speculating.

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Glitch404 wrote:
Glitch404 wrote:

'Fall 2018' has been discussed for their "possible" beta release (you can even find this in the FAQ if you scroll to the bottom of the webpage). Given how long betas can run for (which can be anywhere from several months to another year or more in most cases), an official launch for CoT probably wouldn't be until at least early-to-mid 2019. But that's just me speculating.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I'm just dying to get to play some version of this game as soon as possible :P

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No problem! Right now we

No problem! Right now we still have the rest of 2018 before we get some (more) news regarding the Avatar Builder (Character Creator), the Second Chance Kickstarter, and Beta release. Until we still got a long bumpy road ahead.

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Yeah, personally I keep

Yeah, personally I keep setting my expectations by bumping every date released for CoT back by a year. That's not due to lack of confidence in MWM, it's due to the realities of game development--especially for an ambitious project like this one. That way my surprises are pleasant rather than dissapointing.

I'm going nuts waiting for this game too, but it's because I want the game they want to build, and THAT game cannot be cranked out quickly. This is just my personal opinion, but I keep tabs on all the projects, and the push on the other projects to just get something like CoH out ASAP has really turned me off of them.

I don't want something almost as good as CoH just with a different lore and somewhat updated graphics. I want a true spiritual successor that carries the torch forward, not just an "altered art" version of CoH.

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Considering that they're not

Considering that they're not in alpha yet (some systems are in testing, but not the game as a whole, unless I missed an announcement), I don't anticipate a beta until late 2019 at the very earliest, and I'd really expect it later than that, probably after 2020.

I have that itch too, and the existing superhero mmos don't come close to scratching it. CO comes closest, but with the scandal they brought on themselves two weeks ago, with the announcement they're doing away with monthly subscriptions and only lifetime subbers will retain access to their freeform characters, I expect them to start hemorrhaging players, hastening the demise of that game which has basically been on life support for four years.

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I think MWM will be in a

I think MWM will be in a position to give MUCH better expectations after they finish integrating all their different systems together along with the software upgrade and plugin integration. If all works out, all their systems sync, all their plugins 'work', and they can continue working without too many bugs on those specific items, I'd think they would still be on their schedule and we would at least get the chargen this year with the full-game release either late this year or early next year. I mean, they've been so hesitant giving anything related to a timeline that the fact that they've actually mentioned a Fall 2018 date should be a point of at least moderate reliability of their efforts.

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Yeah, I keep finding myself

Yeah, I keep finding myself thinking that they are abiding the Engineer Scotty logic. Tell them it takes longer to do than you actually can get it done so when it is ready you’re the hero that got it done early.

Of course that is just wishful thinking in my part but I’m still hoping that the Chargen/alpha is just around the corner...

Time will tell...

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CoH used Scottie-style

Paragon Studios used Scottie-style expectation setting--and it worked! I remember the mantra "no, there won't ever be Ancillary Power customization, no, there will never be Ancillary Power customization", and then all of the sudden, "next issue, Ancillary Power Pool customization!" I about went through the roof!

Of course, NCSoft shut the game down before we could get our hands on it. Bastards.

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I also remember it being said

I also remember it being said somewhere, either on the forums or elsewhere, that the game isn't going to be "100% completed" upon release. Examples that were given were certain starting zones weren't going to be inaccessible at launch yet. Unless this information has changed and went untouched by my radar.

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Glitch404 wrote:
Glitch404 wrote:

I also remember it being said somewhere, either on the forums or elsewhere, that the game isn't going to be "100% completed" upon release. Examples that were given were certain starting zones weren't going to be inaccessible at launch yet. Unless this information has changed and went untouched by my radar.

RIght. Also level cap at 30, right? So they only need to have roughly 50% of the content done. Maybe less since the first 30 levels should be by a lot quicker than the last 20 since leveling will be slower and require a lot more content.

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I sincerely hope they do have

I sincerely hope they do have a release in 2018. If MWM takes too long eventually other projects will take the spotlight even if CoT can deliver a solid product. I'm not just talking about the other CoH remake projects, I hear Disney/marvel are thinking about dipping their toes into the genre again now that the superhero craze is so much higher. If project avengers does well you may very well see a AAA dev studio with a whole boatload of money suddenly appear as direct competition. They may already be working on such a project, there have been some interesting hiring notices that suggest as much.

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Yeah but Disney/Marvel will

Yeah but Disney/Marvel will always have the brand they push which is fine but isn’t highly beloved by a lot of players. In this genre it seems like most want to create they’re own characters, so I’m a little less worried about them. As they will likely stick to playing an existing character in the marvel universe.

However, you are still quite right they have tons of money to throw at anything they want and can still have a tremendous impact on the market.

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All good points, everyone,

All good points, everyone, but unless things have changed much of the work at MWM is being done by volunteers who have paying jobs elsewhere. If they were a fully bankrolled company, I could see at least the chargen by end of year, but that's been promised since late 2014 and we still haven't seen it. The plugin architecture was a stumbling block, which will enable great new things but also is causing delays as MWM adjusts what they'd already created so that it can work with it. Based on this, it's not unreasonable to assume we'll be waiting longer than old projections led us to believe.

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Was it really "promised" that

Was it really "promised" that the chargen was to release as far as 2014? I'm not doubting what you're saying, but I know that when it comes to target years/timelines/etc for CoT, information has had a habit of getting misconstrued amongst those of us that converse on the forums on a near daily basis. Some examples of which was probably a few months ago, probably back in January-February. Announcements were made discussing the character creator and how the MWM team was looking for (at that time) March-April to release something at least hinting towards the chargen's overall status and some folk were quick to misreport this as some sort of "release date" for the chargen.

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Good point. We're all so

Good point. We're all so thirsty for a release that it is easy to get carried away.

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Glitch404 wrote:
Glitch404 wrote:

Was it really "promised" that the chargen was to release as far as 2014?

I think a working standalone chargen was promised in Fall 2014 with no solid release date. Since then, numerous release dates have appeared in random places, probably none of them from MWM, the earliest calling for Q2 2015 just for the chargen, which was unrealistic under the best conditions.

My point was that a company with a fulltime paid staff could have released such a thing in six months, but that's not what MWM is. I feel (but am neither an expert nor a fortune teller) that a beta within two years is asking too much. But I will be pleasantly surprised if they manage otherwise.

[EDIT] And I'm still not clear. By "promised" I mean someone from MWM in these forums said in late 2014 that they were working on a standalone, usable chargen for release "maybe" "soon". Not that anyone promised it would be done in late 2014. Things in my head don't always end up on the screen the way they're meant to.

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Superpersonage wrote:
Superpersonage wrote:
Glitch404 wrote:

Was it really "promised" that the chargen was to release as far as 2014?

I think a working standalone chargen was promised in Fall 2014 with no solid release date. Since then, numerous release dates have appeared in random places, probably none of them from MWM, the earliest calling for Q2 2015 just for the chargen, which was unrealistic under the best conditions.

My point was that a company with a fulltime paid staff could have released such a thing in six months, but that's not what MWM is. I feel (but am neither an expert nor a fortune teller) that a beta within two years is asking too much. But I will be pleasantly surprised if they manage otherwise.

[EDIT] And I'm still not clear. By "promised" I mean someone from MWM in these forums said in late 2014 that they were working on a standalone, usable chargen for release "maybe" "soon". Not that anyone promised it would be done in late 2014. Things in my head don't always end up on the screen the way they're meant to.

Understandable then. I only ask because I know certain release dates or projected years were, like you said, highly unrealistic. Especially when you are to take into account how production on CoT started in 2013 and then came some minor setbacks when the MWM team chose to switch engines (a decision I'm glad they made).

However, the main reason a beta is expected at all within two years is mainly due to because MWM has said that CoT wouldn't be 100% complete with all it's starting leveling zones or level cap (which is slated to be 50). But even then, their overall tagline for everything is: "Subject to Change" so who knows what the future has in store. I'd personally just be happy to see this game release given how you can find so many people to call CoT "vaporware" in a heartbeat.

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Additionally there were key

Additionally there were key personnel changes in the first year or two which set things back at least a little perhaps. The earliest I remember was something in mid-late 2015 suggested but that is my memory not an actual post or anything...

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rookslide wrote:
rookslide wrote:

Additionally there were key personnel changes in the first year or two which set things back at least a little perhaps. The earliest I remember was something in mid-late 2015 suggested but that is my memory not an actual post or anything...

I remember something regarding a mid-late 2015 target date myself, vividly at least. I think this was stated to be whether the MWM team wanted something that was "rushed" and forced out into the public only about two-three years after initial work on what was going to be proto-City of Titans or they slow down and take their time and use the resources that were actually made available to them via the success of their Kickstarter.

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Glitch404 wrote:
Glitch404 wrote:
rookslide wrote:

Additionally there were key personnel changes in the first year or two which set things back at least a little perhaps. The earliest I remember was something in mid-late 2015 suggested but that is my memory not an actual post or anything...

I remember something regarding a mid-late 2015 target date myself, vividly at least. I think this was stated to be whether the MWM team wanted something that was "rushed" and forced out into the public only about two-three years after initial work on what was going to be proto-City of Titans or they slow down and take their time and use the resources that were actually made available to them via the success of their Kickstarter.

Yeah, that does sound familiar. A painful wait, but doing it right versus easy... I’ll keep waiting.

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

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One thing that slowed them

One thing that slowed them down and that they took a lot of flak for at the time was switching to Unreal 4, but I've done a lot of reading up on engines since then just out of curiosity, and with even a little research it's pretty obvious that it was a very, very good move on their part. Definitely the right call.

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The current goal is to finish

The current goal is to finish integrating the avatar builder into the base client. That part is already at alpha. This we aim to have this feature-incomplete version of the client in beta by the end of the year. What is included with that depends on what can be integrated and tested in time, but the character generator is the must-have system.

Then as features become finished, we can then update the base client.

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If KH3 can come out this year

If KH3 can come out this year, I think I can bide some time and be happily distracted until this game comes out. Else I will be a hot mess crying in a corner waiting for both games to come out!

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

If KH3 can come out this year, I think I can bide some time and be happily distracted until this game comes out. Else I will be a hot mess crying in a corner waiting for both games to come out!

It was announced yesterday that KH3 will be releasing on Jan 29, 2019. A little further out than they were promising, but at least it has a solid date now!

Also, I'm certainly wandering from game to game like a lost soul until CoT releases. I can relate.

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I would love to be excited

I would love to be excited about this news, but after waiting over 10 years, I will hold off till the game is actually in my hands.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

... This we aim to have this feature-incomplete version of the client in beta by the end of the year. ...

What do you mean by "Incomplete" ? Is the character generator will be incomplete in the game client for the beta ? or does this feature will be completed in a incomplete beta version of the game client ? :) (the difficulties of the translations ^^)

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I think he means that only

I think he means that only certain features of the game will be unlocked, to concentrate on testing those features, which is to say, the launcher and the Avatar Builder. Mostly the Avatar Builder, would be my guess.

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

... This we aim to have this feature-incomplete version of the client in beta by the end of the year. ...

What do you mean by "Incomplete" ? Is the character generator will be incomplete in the game client for the beta ? or does this feature will be completed in a incomplete beta version of the game client ? :) (the difficulties of the translations ^^)

Iirc the first release will only be for building costumes (one feature), not customizing powers (another feature). While at launch and most likely later betas we will need both of those features.

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That makes sense. If the art,

That makes sense. If the art, animations, etc for powers are done (the mechanics of a feature are usually faster to finish than the art and animation so I'm assuming that is done too) then you are much closer to launching the game proper.

The day we are all eagerly waiting for!

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Unfortunately that day is

Unfortunately that day is still far, far away.

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On he bright side, either SoH

On he bright side, either SoH or CoT will be playable in some form by the end of the year.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

On he bright side, either SoH or CoT will be playable in some form by the end of the year.

SoH is shooting for a 2019 release. Neither will be playable this year.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Iirc the first release will only be for building costumes (one feature), not customizing powers (another feature). While at launch and most likely later betas we will need both of those features.

Thanks for the explanation :)

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Phararri wrote:

On he bright side, either SoH or CoT will be playable in some form by the end of the year.

SoH is shooting for a 2019 release. Neither will be playable this year.

So the avatar builder is not releasing in 2018 then?

By the way, SoH is already playable, for media supporters.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

So the avatar builder is not releasing in 2018 then?

I suppose it depends on what you consider a "playable" app or not. Last I heard MWM was shooting to get the character builder released before the end of the year with the rest of the "game" to hopefully follow some time next year. Do you consider a character builder by itself to be something you can "play" or just something you could tinker around with in lieu of actually "playing" the full game?

Phararri wrote:

By the way, SoH is already playable, for media supporters.

Again that's kind of splitting hairs a bit over the term "playable" isn't it? Technically if you want to be that picky you could probably say CoT has been "playable" to some degree (as internal test builds) for the folks at MWM for at least a few years now. ;)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:

So the avatar builder is not releasing in 2018 then?

I suppose it depends on what you consider a "playable" app or not. Last I heard MWM was shooting to get the character builder released before the end of the year with the rest of the "game" to hopefully follow some time next year. Do you consider a character builder by itself to be something you can "play" or just something you could tinker around with in lieu of actually "playing" the full game?

Phararri wrote:

By the way, SoH is already playable, for media supporters.

Again that's kind of splitting hairs a bit over the term "playable" isn't it? Technically if you want to be that picky you could probably say CoT has been "playable" to some degree (as internal test builds) for the folks at MWM for at least a few years now. ;)

This was basically my same train of thought. When you say 'playable', to me that means it's up and open to the public, no longer in the testing phase, etc. Closed alpha's or beta's don't count since they aren't open to the public masses.

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Maybe he means that SoH has

Maybe he means that SoH has been more public with their progress since the youtubers previously mentioned were able to show off that prealpha gameplay. There hasn't exactly been a media blitz, but they have shown it off a little bit. They aren't wrong there. CoT has been kept under wraps by comparison.

I understand the reasons for it though. You only get one chance to make a first impression, and showing off a lot of half baked content isn't ideal.

It is also understandable that people aren't going to sit and wait. If they see nothing happening they'll pay attention to the next shiny thing that they can actually get ahold of.

Hopefully CoT releases something big (like the chargen) relatively soon, gets the hype train up to speed, and turns that into income they can reinvest to really launch the project in the way everyone hopes.

Does MWM have a PR/community/hype focused department? If not they're going to want to look for some charismatic people to charm the pants off the public. While I loved every minute of the interviews I've seen they would not play in Peoria.

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

Maybe he means that SoH has been more public with their progress since the youtubers previously mentioned were able to show off that prealpha gameplay. There hasn't exactly been a media blitz, but they have shown it off a little bit. They aren't wrong there. CoT has been kept under wraps by comparison.

I understand the reasons for it though. You only get one chance to make a first impression, and showing off a lot of half baked content isn't ideal.

It is also understandable that people aren't going to sit and wait. If they see nothing happening they'll pay attention to the next shiny thing that they can actually get ahold of.

Hopefully CoT releases something big (like the chargen) relatively soon, gets the hype train up to speed, and turns that into income they can reinvest to really launch the project in the way everyone hopes.

Does MWM have a PR/community/hype focused department? If not they're going to want to look for some charismatic people to charm the pants off the public. While I loved every minute of the interviews I've seen they would not play in Peoria.

Saying "SoH is already playable" is pretty straight forward, and false. It isn't playable. Yes, there was a two or three day period when some people were given access for a closed beta or whatever it was...but that is FAR from playable. Their chargen is not completed, they were forced into a very restricted play test, the 'playing' didn't include leveling or any of the other multitude of things that make up a game, etc etc etc. If you can't buy the game it isn't playable.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Phararri wrote:

On he bright side, either SoH or CoT will be playable in some form by the end of the year.

SoH is shooting for a 2019 release. Neither will be playable this year.

So the avatar builder is not releasing in 2018 then?

By the way, SoH is already playable, for media supporters.

Just a note: if that is the criteria for being 'playable', CoT is also 'playable' as they have confirmed the same kind of fighting testing, just closed to only the devs. Months ago someone asked about the beginning bank heist and if the devs had played through it, they confirmed that they had many times.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:

So the avatar builder is not releasing in 2018 then?

I suppose it depends on what you consider a "playable" app or not. Last I heard MWM was shooting to get the character builder released before the end of the year with the rest of the "game" to hopefully follow some time next year. Do you consider a character builder by itself to be something you can "play" or just something you could tinker around with in lieu of actually "playing" the full game?

Phararri wrote:

By the way, SoH is already playable, for media supporters.

Again that's kind of splitting hairs a bit over the term "playable" isn't it? Technically if you want to be that picky you could probably say CoT has been "playable" to some degree (as internal test builds) for the folks at MWM for at least a few years now. ;)

Not that deep.

I play CO, but for the most part, the character creator. Same for BDO. Sometimes I log in to play with the character creator. There are actually games that are not action oriented, but still the term "Play" still applies. Like the Barbie fashion show games, not that I would know of course...

If non-devs within the public or forums have played CoT to this degree

It is indeed playable. I mean, if you pick up a controller or hit keys, that is playing. I don't understand the debate club mentality around here lol. Are we really debating playing something even when you are playing something?...

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

It is indeed playable. I mean, if you pick up a controller or hit keys, that is playing. I don't understand the debate club mentality around here lol. Are we really debating playing something even when you are playing something?...

I would debate the definition of the term "playable" in this case when all we've currently seen from SoH are videos of an alpha-level "technology demonstrator" that they only let a few key media people experience. Is SoH even ready for open beta testing much less general release? Of course not. Can you really call a game "playable" when perhaps only 10-15% of its final features are active?

Your definition of that game being "playable" at this point is about the same as someone trying to reinvent the game of chess but only having the equivalent of the queen piece to "play" with and not even having her expected ability to move diagonally yet. How much of a game of chess can you really "play" with one piece that is itself less than a fully functional piece?

Now obviously you can argue that SoH has released more raw video footage of "people running around activating powers and killing MOBs" than CoT has to date. But really calling that a "playable" MMO at this point is being generous to an extreme fault.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Phararri
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:

It is indeed playable. I mean, if you pick up a controller or hit keys, that is playing. I don't understand the debate club mentality around here lol. Are we really debating playing something even when you are playing something?...

I would debate the definition of the term "playable" in this case when all we've currently seen from SoH are videos of an alpha-level "technology demonstrator" that they only let a few key media people experience. Is SoH even ready for open beta testing much less general release? Of course not. Can you really call a game "playable" when perhaps only 10-15% of its final features are active?

Your definition of that game being "playable" at this point is about the same as someone trying to reinvent the game of chess but only having the equivalent of the queen piece to "play" with and not even having her expected ability to move diagonally yet. How much of a game of chess can you really "play" with one piece that is itself less than a fully functional piece?

Now obviously you can argue that SoH has released more raw video footage of "people running around activating powers and killing MOBs" than CoT has to date. But really calling that a "playable" MMO at this point is being generous to an extreme fault.

Casey stated SoH may have one area for public release, and the 10-15% is a number pulled from thin air. He also stated the game will not release with numerous features, namely powers, such as commander and different zones.

Star citizen is playable, despite still being worked upon. MMO are constantly expanding. Ever heard of this?
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

VO is playable? Yes

Is it trash? Yes.

Does it currently contain "10-15%" of its' features? Yes.

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:

It is indeed playable. I mean, if you pick up a controller or hit keys, that is playing. I don't understand the debate club mentality around here lol. Are we really debating playing something even when you are playing something?...

I would debate the definition of the term "playable" in this case when all we've currently seen from SoH are videos of an alpha-level "technology demonstrator" that they only let a few key media people experience. Is SoH even ready for open beta testing much less general release? Of course not. Can you really call a game "playable" when perhaps only 10-15% of its final features are active?

Your definition of that game being "playable" at this point is about the same as someone trying to reinvent the game of chess but only having the equivalent of the queen piece to "play" with and not even having her expected ability to move diagonally yet. How much of a game of chess can you really "play" with one piece that is itself less than a fully functional piece?

Now obviously you can argue that SoH has released more raw video footage of "people running around activating powers and killing MOBs" than CoT has to date. But really calling that a "playable" MMO at this point is being generous to an extreme fault.

Casey stated SoH may have one area for public release, and the 10-15% is a number pulled from thin air. He also stated the game will not release with numerous features, namely powers, such as commander and different zones.

Star citizen is playable, despite still being worked upon. MMO are constantly expanding. Ever heard of this?
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

VO is playable? Yes

Is it trash? Yes.

Does it currently contain "10-15%" of its' features? Yes.

The argument is that if it's not released it's not 'playable'. Doesn't matter how many of its features are finished. The day before release the game is not playable, because you can't play it. The fact that mmo's are 'ever-expanding' has nothing to do with the play-ability of a game.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:

It is indeed playable. I mean, if you pick up a controller or hit keys, that is playing. I don't understand the debate club mentality around here lol. Are we really debating playing something even when you are playing something?...

I would debate the definition of the term "playable" in this case when all we've currently seen from SoH are videos of an alpha-level "technology demonstrator" that they only let a few key media people experience. Is SoH even ready for open beta testing much less general release? Of course not. Can you really call a game "playable" when perhaps only 10-15% of its final features are active?

Your definition of that game being "playable" at this point is about the same as someone trying to reinvent the game of chess but only having the equivalent of the queen piece to "play" with and not even having her expected ability to move diagonally yet. How much of a game of chess can you really "play" with one piece that is itself less than a fully functional piece?

Now obviously you can argue that SoH has released more raw video footage of "people running around activating powers and killing MOBs" than CoT has to date. But really calling that a "playable" MMO at this point is being generous to an extreme fault.

Casey stated SoH may have one area for public release, and the 10-15% is a number pulled from thin air. He also stated the game will not release with numerous features, namely powers, such as commander and different zones.

Star citizen is playable, despite still being worked upon. MMO are constantly expanding. Ever heard of this?
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

VO is playable? Yes

Is it trash? Yes.

Does it currently contain "10-15%" of its' features? Yes.

You ever heard of why games that allow for "early access" are becoming almost universally derided as "bad ideas" by most people? Because most people don't like to "play" games that are in reality unfinished hot messes.

Sorry if it upsets you but I only "play" games that are officially launched and released. Anything I do with a game before it's released is generally called "beta testing".

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Discussions like this make me

Discussions like this make me very glad that we did not opt for the early access route as originally discussed.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Discussions like this make me very glad that we did not opt for the early access route as originally discussed.

QFT!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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TBF, Early Access (on top of

TBF, Early Access (on top of the development headaches it creates) has that air of stigma around it due to the various abuses of the system so it's very good you did opt to avoid it.

Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...

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Early access is an excellent

Early access is an excellent tool in the right hands but unfortunately did not have strict oversight in initial stages and has led to some very public abuse by (or simple failure of) development studios. People soured on it for the same reason they are excited for it, they jumped in without reading the fine print or really thinking it through.

I find it humorous that many of the people here that love to hate on such a system are also kickstarter backers. Kickstarter is a similar idea (pay now for what you hope will happen later) but you don't necessarily get anything out of it at all, ever. At least you have to have something playable to some degree before you can attempt an early access launch.

It is true that people (both consumers and developers) struggle with the concept of early access, and it necessarily means your game is going to make a worse first impression than if you had initially delivered a polished product. The system is ideal for struggling indie studios that want to break free of the shackles of publishers as well as devs that want to grow their title with community feedback. It also lets devs in that situation prove they have something to worth supporting.

While useful, if you have the funds to make your game and are sure that you don't need player input there is no reason to consider using it.

Lothic
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TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

Early access is an excellent tool in the right hands but unfortunately did not have strict oversight in initial stages and has led to some very public abuse by (or simple failure of) development studios. People soured on it for the same reason they are excited for it, they jumped in without reading the fine print or really thinking it through.

I find it humorous that many of the people here that love to hate on such a system are also kickstarter backers. Kickstarter is a similar idea (pay now for what you hope will happen later) but you don't necessarily get anything out of it at all, ever. At least you have to have something playable to some degree before you can attempt an early access launch.

It is true that people (both consumers and developers) struggle with the concept of early access, and it necessarily means your game is going to make a worse first impression than if you had initially delivered a polished product. The system is ideal for struggling indie studios that want to break free of the shackles of publishers as well as devs that want to grow their title with community feedback. It also lets devs in that situation prove they have something to worth supporting.

While useful, if you have the funds to make your game and are sure that you don't need player input there is no reason to consider using it.

I think there's a fundamental difference between an "early adopter" (i.e. Kickstarter supporter) who's mainly expecting to gain "early access" to a game versus one who genuinely doesn't mind (or at least understands) the active beta testing process. The first simply wants to "play" the game ASAP (whether it's actually ready to be "played" or not) while the other is willing to TEST the game in an unfinished state and is accepting of the fact that they aren't actually "playing" the game until it's officially launched.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Phararri
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:

It is indeed playable. I mean, if you pick up a controller or hit keys, that is playing. I don't understand the debate club mentality around here lol. Are we really debating playing something even when you are playing something?...

I would debate the definition of the term "playable" in this case when all we've currently seen from SoH are videos of an alpha-level "technology demonstrator" that they only let a few key media people experience. Is SoH even ready for open beta testing much less general release? Of course not. Can you really call a game "playable" when perhaps only 10-15% of its final features are active?

Your definition of that game being "playable" at this point is about the same as someone trying to reinvent the game of chess but only having the equivalent of the queen piece to "play" with and not even having her expected ability to move diagonally yet. How much of a game of chess can you really "play" with one piece that is itself less than a fully functional piece?

Now obviously you can argue that SoH has released more raw video footage of "people running around activating powers and killing MOBs" than CoT has to date. But really calling that a "playable" MMO at this point is being generous to an extreme fault.

Casey stated SoH may have one area for public release, and the 10-15% is a number pulled from thin air. He also stated the game will not release with numerous features, namely powers, such as commander and different zones.

Star citizen is playable, despite still being worked upon. MMO are constantly expanding. Ever heard of this?
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

VO is playable? Yes

Is it trash? Yes.

Does it currently contain "10-15%" of its' features? Yes.

You ever heard of why games that allow for "early access" are becoming almost universally derided as "bad ideas" by most people? Because most people don't like to "play" games that are in reality unfinished hot messes.

Sorry if it upsets you but I only "play" games that are officially launched and released. Anything I do with a game before it's released is generally called "beta testing".

Key word, "I"

For you to even mention someone being upset allows me to understand your position more clearer. I don't know if you are having a bad day or whatever, but arguing over playing a game while not playing a game is an oxymoron. In actuality, games are playable once they become playable. To what extent is irrelevant. You may not like EA, but does that change their playablity? No, it does not.

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

Lothic
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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:

It is indeed playable. I mean, if you pick up a controller or hit keys, that is playing. I don't understand the debate club mentality around here lol. Are we really debating playing something even when you are playing something?...

I would debate the definition of the term "playable" in this case when all we've currently seen from SoH are videos of an alpha-level "technology demonstrator" that they only let a few key media people experience. Is SoH even ready for open beta testing much less general release? Of course not. Can you really call a game "playable" when perhaps only 10-15% of its final features are active?

Your definition of that game being "playable" at this point is about the same as someone trying to reinvent the game of chess but only having the equivalent of the queen piece to "play" with and not even having her expected ability to move diagonally yet. How much of a game of chess can you really "play" with one piece that is itself less than a fully functional piece?

Now obviously you can argue that SoH has released more raw video footage of "people running around activating powers and killing MOBs" than CoT has to date. But really calling that a "playable" MMO at this point is being generous to an extreme fault.

Casey stated SoH may have one area for public release, and the 10-15% is a number pulled from thin air. He also stated the game will not release with numerous features, namely powers, such as commander and different zones.

Star citizen is playable, despite still being worked upon. MMO are constantly expanding. Ever heard of this?
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

VO is playable? Yes

Is it trash? Yes.

Does it currently contain "10-15%" of its' features? Yes.

You ever heard of why games that allow for "early access" are becoming almost universally derided as "bad ideas" by most people? Because most people don't like to "play" games that are in reality unfinished hot messes.

Sorry if it upsets you but I only "play" games that are officially launched and released. Anything I do with a game before it's released is generally called "beta testing".

Key word, "I"

For you to even mention someone being upset allows me to understand your position more clearer. I don't know if you are having a bad day or whatever, but arguing over playing a game while not playing a game is an oxymoron. In actuality, games are playable once they become playable. To what extent is irrelevant. You may not like EA, but does that change their playablity? No, it does not.

Can you level up in SoH's technology demonstrator?
Can you create your own costumes in SoH's technology demonstrator?
Can you run missions in SoH's technology demonstrator?
Can you buy stuff from their in-game store in SoH's technology demonstrator?

Do I have to continue with this list?

So yeah I'll continue to confidently define "playing" a game by the obvious terms any sane person would use (not just "I") of being able to do ALL the things the game is being designed to eventually do. If you can only do a tiny subset of the things the game is supposed to allow you to do you're not "playing" the game, you're only TESTING the tiny portion that's currently operational.

Your silly attempt to equate/suggest that people are "playing" a fully designed MMO based on a 10 minute promotional video is what's laughable in this case.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Dark Cleric
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:

It is indeed playable. I mean, if you pick up a controller or hit keys, that is playing. I don't understand the debate club mentality around here lol. Are we really debating playing something even when you are playing something?...

I would debate the definition of the term "playable" in this case when all we've currently seen from SoH are videos of an alpha-level "technology demonstrator" that they only let a few key media people experience. Is SoH even ready for open beta testing much less general release? Of course not. Can you really call a game "playable" when perhaps only 10-15% of its final features are active?

Your definition of that game being "playable" at this point is about the same as someone trying to reinvent the game of chess but only having the equivalent of the queen piece to "play" with and not even having her expected ability to move diagonally yet. How much of a game of chess can you really "play" with one piece that is itself less than a fully functional piece?

Now obviously you can argue that SoH has released more raw video footage of "people running around activating powers and killing MOBs" than CoT has to date. But really calling that a "playable" MMO at this point is being generous to an extreme fault.

Casey stated SoH may have one area for public release, and the 10-15% is a number pulled from thin air. He also stated the game will not release with numerous features, namely powers, such as commander and different zones.

Star citizen is playable, despite still being worked upon. MMO are constantly expanding. Ever heard of this?
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

VO is playable? Yes

Is it trash? Yes.

Does it currently contain "10-15%" of its' features? Yes.

You ever heard of why games that allow for "early access" are becoming almost universally derided as "bad ideas" by most people? Because most people don't like to "play" games that are in reality unfinished hot messes.

Sorry if it upsets you but I only "play" games that are officially launched and released. Anything I do with a game before it's released is generally called "beta testing".

Key word, "I"

For you to even mention someone being upset allows me to understand your position more clearer. I don't know if you are having a bad day or whatever, but arguing over playing a game while not playing a game is an oxymoron. In actuality, games are playable once they become playable. To what extent is irrelevant. You may not like EA, but does that change their playablity? No, it does not.

Can you level up in SoH's technology demonstrator?
Can you create your own costumes in SoH's technology demonstrator?
Can you run missions in SoH's technology demonstrator?
Can you buy stuff from their in-game store in SoH's technology demonstrator?

Do I have to continue with this list?

So yeah I'll continue to confidently define "playing" a game by the obvious terms any sane person would use (not just "I") of being able to do ALL the things the game is being designed to eventually do. If you can only do a tiny subset of the things the game is supposed to allow you to do you're not "playing" the game, you're only TESTING the tiny portion that's currently operational.

Your silly attempt to equate/suggest that people are "playing" a fully designed MMO based on a 10 minute promotional video is what's laughable in this case.

This. +1

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

blacke4dawn
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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:

It is indeed playable. I mean, if you pick up a controller or hit keys, that is playing. I don't understand the debate club mentality around here lol. Are we really debating playing something even when you are playing something?...

I would debate the definition of the term "playable" in this case when all we've currently seen from SoH are videos of an alpha-level "technology demonstrator" that they only let a few key media people experience. Is SoH even ready for open beta testing much less general release? Of course not. Can you really call a game "playable" when perhaps only 10-15% of its final features are active?

Your definition of that game being "playable" at this point is about the same as someone trying to reinvent the game of chess but only having the equivalent of the queen piece to "play" with and not even having her expected ability to move diagonally yet. How much of a game of chess can you really "play" with one piece that is itself less than a fully functional piece?

Now obviously you can argue that SoH has released more raw video footage of "people running around activating powers and killing MOBs" than CoT has to date. But really calling that a "playable" MMO at this point is being generous to an extreme fault.

Casey stated SoH may have one area for public release, and the 10-15% is a number pulled from thin air. He also stated the game will not release with numerous features, namely powers, such as commander and different zones.

Star citizen is playable, despite still being worked upon. MMO are constantly expanding. Ever heard of this?
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

VO is playable? Yes

Is it trash? Yes.

Does it currently contain "10-15%" of its' features? Yes.

You ever heard of why games that allow for "early access" are becoming almost universally derided as "bad ideas" by most people? Because most people don't like to "play" games that are in reality unfinished hot messes.

Sorry if it upsets you but I only "play" games that are officially launched and released. Anything I do with a game before it's released is generally called "beta testing".

Key word, "I"

For you to even mention someone being upset allows me to understand your position more clearer. I don't know if you are having a bad day or whatever, but arguing over playing a game while not playing a game is an oxymoron. In actuality, games are playable once they become playable. To what extent is irrelevant. You may not like EA, but does that change their playablity? No, it does not.

I agree with Lothic on this. There is a big difference between playing The Game (as a whole) and only "playing" a very small part of it.

From what I have gathered you seem to define "playing" as there being an expected output from specific input, so if the only thing you can do is to move the cameras viewpoint around would, by your definition, be "playing" The Game while I'm sure that hardly anyone else would agree on that. Mainly because I think hardly anyone would define a single system or even a fairly large sub part (like chargen) to be The Game.

As for your earlier parallell to CO and BDO wouldn't say you're "playing" The Game but rather just the character generator of those games.

Brainbot
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I seldom agree with you

I seldom agree with you Phararri but in this case I believe you are correct. Just being able to interact with some aspect of the game does mean you are playing it. SoH in particular does have many core mechanics in place and have obviously begun 'playtesting' of their game.

But it was pretty obvious, even before Dark Cleric's clarification, that he meant open to the public and not in closed development. You are arguing a semantic that no one else considers relevant.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:

It is indeed playable. I mean, if you pick up a controller or hit keys, that is playing. I don't understand the debate club mentality around here lol. Are we really debating playing something even when you are playing something?...

I would debate the definition of the term "playable" in this case when all we've currently seen from SoH are videos of an alpha-level "technology demonstrator" that they only let a few key media people experience. Is SoH even ready for open beta testing much less general release? Of course not. Can you really call a game "playable" when perhaps only 10-15% of its final features are active?

Your definition of that game being "playable" at this point is about the same as someone trying to reinvent the game of chess but only having the equivalent of the queen piece to "play" with and not even having her expected ability to move diagonally yet. How much of a game of chess can you really "play" with one piece that is itself less than a fully functional piece?

Now obviously you can argue that SoH has released more raw video footage of "people running around activating powers and killing MOBs" than CoT has to date. But really calling that a "playable" MMO at this point is being generous to an extreme fault.

Casey stated SoH may have one area for public release, and the 10-15% is a number pulled from thin air. He also stated the game will not release with numerous features, namely powers, such as commander and different zones.

Star citizen is playable, despite still being worked upon. MMO are constantly expanding. Ever heard of this?
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

VO is playable? Yes

Is it trash? Yes.

Does it currently contain "10-15%" of its' features? Yes.

You ever heard of why games that allow for "early access" are becoming almost universally derided as "bad ideas" by most people? Because most people don't like to "play" games that are in reality unfinished hot messes.

Sorry if it upsets you but I only "play" games that are officially launched and released. Anything I do with a game before it's released is generally called "beta testing".

Key word, "I"

For you to even mention someone being upset allows me to understand your position more clearer. I don't know if you are having a bad day or whatever, but arguing over playing a game while not playing a game is an oxymoron. In actuality, games are playable once they become playable. To what extent is irrelevant. You may not like EA, but does that change their playablity? No, it does not.

I agree with Lothic on this. There is a big difference between playing The Game (as a whole) and only "playing" a very small part of it.

From what I have gathered you seem to define "playing" as there being an expected output from specific input, so if the only thing you can do is to move the cameras viewpoint around would, by your definition, be "playing" The Game while I'm sure that hardly anyone else would agree on that. Mainly because I think hardly anyone would define a single system or even a fairly large sub part (like chargen) to be The Game.

As for your earlier parallell to CO and BDO wouldn't say you're "playing" The Game but rather just the character generator of those games.

+1

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

Lothic
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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

I seldom agree with you Phararri but in this case I believe you are correct. Just being able to interact with some aspect of the game does mean you are playing it. SoH in particular does have many core mechanics in place and have obviously begun 'playtesting' of their game.

But it was pretty obvious, even before Dark Cleric's clarification, that he meant open to the public and not in closed development. You are arguing a semantic that no one else considers relevant.

I simply stress the TESTING part of that highlighted word (over the "play" part) in cases like this extremely limited SoH technology demonstrator. *shrugs*

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Brainbot
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What SoH allowed people to

What SoH allowed people to play was not a tech demo. It was more akin to old school pre-complete game demos (circa 1980s-1990s).
For those who have never been to an E3, developers use this kind of demonstration today. They set up a booth and allow people to play their unfinished game.

Like I said before, this is semantics and irrelevant to the discussion of release dates.

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Question

Question

Will there be a commander or pet creation builder at some point? I am not expecting any answer in particular, just curious. Granted commander customization is still in the works.

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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You guys ever notice how

You guys ever notice how nearly every discussion on this forum turns into a debate?

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

Question

Will there be a commander or pet creation builder at some point? I am not expecting any answer in particular, just curious. Granted commander customization is still in the works.

Yes. It will not be unlimited, mind you.

Technical Director

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Phararri wrote:

Question

Will there be a commander or pet creation builder at some point? I am not expecting any answer in particular, just curious. Granted commander customization is still in the works.

Yes. It will not be unlimited, mind you.

So very very excited about this!

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Do we know enough about

Do we know enough about Commanders yet (or is MWM ready to say) to know if pet power sets will still have general themes, with customisation restricted to the bounds of that theme?

For example, if a Commander has robotic pets, will the pet customisation provide a variety of robot-like appearance options linked to that theme, but not the appearance options that go with, say, thugs or demons?

Or will there be a limited set of pet appearance options that apply across the board to all pet power sets?

Or...am I thinking too much in terms of the old game, and the pet power sets won't even work in themes like this at all?

Spurn all ye kindle.

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It would be kinda weird if

It would be kinda weird if pet power sets were linked to the aesthetics of the pets at all. It would be in opposition to one of the main design goals of the rest of the game.

I can see MWM having more limited pet customization options (compared to regular character and power customization) because it doesn't make sense to spend as much time on a feature that only subset of players will use.

But outright saying "set A will use this aesthetic" would be weird in the context of CoT.

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turett wrote:
turett wrote:

You guys ever notice how nearly every discussion on this forum turns into a debate?

No it doesn’t!

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CO has limited customization

CO has limited customization for "controllable" pets (ie. pets that remain spawned until killed or dismissed, as opposed to "uncontrolled" pets which remain for only seconds until despawning unless killed first), taking the form of three alternate forms that can be chosen out of combat by players who have unlocked power customization (by being actively subscribed or lts). Controllable pets take the form of angels, demons, golems, wolves, bears, drones, teddy bears, toy soldiers and raptor dinosaurs depending on the power that summons the pet, and the alternate forms change the basic appearance by making the pet appear larger/beefier/more dangerous, but does not in any way affect the pet's abilities. A pet's abilities (attacks, support powers, defences, speed, recovery, etc.) can be altered separately by ranking up the summoning power or taking advantages for it.

One of the few things Cryptic did well in that game, and very similar in concept to aesthetic decoupling.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
turett wrote:

You guys ever notice how nearly every discussion on this forum turns into a debate?

No it doesn’t!

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Atama wrote:
turett wrote:

You guys ever notice how nearly every discussion on this forum turns into a debate?

No it doesn’t!

classic! lol

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

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Thank You Lothic! Beat me to

Thank You Lothic! Beat me to the punch. Monty has the answer to just about every question in the world. Silly or otherwise.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Phararri wrote:

Question

Will there be a commander or pet creation builder at some point? I am not expecting any answer in particular, just curious. Granted commander customization is still in the works.

Yes. It will not be unlimited, mind you.

Awesome!!!

Not unlimited, perfectly fine and understandable. Wow, that is awesome.

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Phararri wrote:

Question

Will there be a commander or pet creation builder at some point? I am not expecting any answer in particular, just curious. Granted commander customization is still in the works.

Yes. It will not be unlimited, mind you.

Awesome!!!

Not unlimited, perfectly fine and understandable. Wow, that is awesome.

Even if the CoT "pet creation builder" only allows 25% of what the "PC creation builder" allows for that would still be great considering CoH's equivalent "pet creation builder" clocked in at around 0% of the capability desired. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Phararri wrote:

Question

Will there be a commander or pet creation builder at some point? I am not expecting any answer in particular, just curious. Granted commander customization is still in the works.

Yes. It will not be unlimited, mind you.

Awesome!!!

Not unlimited, perfectly fine and understandable. Wow, that is awesome.

Even if the CoT "pet creation builder" only allows 25% of what the "PC creation builder" allows for that would still be great considering CoH's equivalent "pet creation builder" clocked in at around 0% of the capability desired. ;)

Didn't catch that.

Edited: Ah, ok. Nvm, you are still talking about the past discussion. Guess I struck a nerve.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Phararri wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Phararri wrote:

Question

Will there be a commander or pet creation builder at some point? I am not expecting any answer in particular, just curious. Granted commander customization is still in the works.

Yes. It will not be unlimited, mind you.

Awesome!!!

Not unlimited, perfectly fine and understandable. Wow, that is awesome.

Even if the CoT "pet creation builder" only allows 25% of what the "PC creation builder" allows for that would still be great considering CoH's equivalent "pet creation builder" clocked in at around 0% of the capability desired. ;)

Didn't catch that.

Edited: Ah, ok. Nvm, you are still talking about the past discussion. Guess I struck a nerve.

No actually I wasn't. I guess you must be obsessed with that "past discussion" since many people disagreed with you on that subject. Just because I mention "percentages" in more than one post doesn't mean those posts are linked in any way.

I was actually just making a simple joke that CoH unfortunately didn't allow for ANY pet customization, thus the mention of "0% capability".

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Do we know enough about Commanders yet (or is MWM ready to say) to know if pet power sets will still have general themes, with customisation restricted to the bounds of that theme?

For example, if a Commander has robotic pets, will the pet customisation provide a variety of robot-like appearance options linked to that theme, but not the appearance options that go with, say, thugs or demons?

Or will there be a limited set of pet appearance options that apply across the board to all pet power sets?

Or...am I thinking too much in terms of the old game, and the pet power sets won't even work in themes like this at all?

They have said that pets will get access to the same "power sets" as NPC's will be using so I'm sure there will be no robotics, thugs, demon type power sets but rather presented the same way they are to us, agnostic to aesthetics. Though I'm sure they also said that pets will be effectively locked to damage oriented sets with some variation for buff, debuff, and/or control in the same way damage oriented player sets (ranged, melee, assault) have varying levels of buff, debuff and control.

I'm hoping though that we'll get pet sets that are oriented more towards debuff, buff, and/or control (maybe even protection but I distinctly remember Tannim saying that Stalwart levels is not on the board for pets) once Commander gets access to ranged, melee and assault secondaries since having both primary and secondary sets being primarily damage oriented makes little sense to me.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

They have said that pets will get access to the same "power sets" as NPC's will be using so I'm sure there will be no robotics, thugs, demon type power sets but rather presented the same way they are to us, agnostic to aesthetics.

That's interesting; I don't remember seeing that. Do you recall where that was discussed?

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

They have said that pets will get access to the same "power sets" as NPC's will be using so I'm sure there will be no robotics, thugs, demon type power sets but rather presented the same way they are to us, agnostic to aesthetics.

That's interesting; I don't remember seeing that. Do you recall where that was discussed?

Yeah TBH I know they've talked about "cosmetic customization" of pets but I'm not sure I recall pets being based on the same exact powersets as PCs and/or NPCs.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cinnder wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

They have said that pets will get access to the same "power sets" as NPC's will be using so I'm sure there will be no robotics, thugs, demon type power sets but rather presented the same way they are to us, agnostic to aesthetics.

That's interesting; I don't remember seeing that. Do you recall where that was discussed?

Yeah TBH I know they've talked about "cosmetic customization" of pets but I'm not sure I recall pets being based on the same exact powersets as PCs and/or NPCs.

Not PC power sets, but the power design will follow a similar process so that the powers are not bound by aesthetics.

There may be more limits imposed when we get down to the details of design but the current design documentation is based off how PC powers were designed - around a mechanical theme not an aesthetic theme to drive the conceptual design.


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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Do we know enough about Commanders yet (or is MWM ready to say) to know if pet power sets will still have general themes, with customisation restricted to the bounds of that theme?

For example, if a Commander has robotic pets, will the pet customisation provide a variety of robot-like appearance options linked to that theme, but not the appearance options that go with, say, thugs or demons?

Or will there be a limited set of pet appearance options that apply across the board to all pet power sets?

Or...am I thinking too much in terms of the old game, and the pet power sets won't even work in themes like this at all?

That is actually a good question. I had to read it several times because I never played CoX.
http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Mastermind
So mercenaries, thugs, robots all had power themes which aligned with their appearance? It seems restricting.

Gonna be interesting to see the pool of creatures and entities. I expect some features to differentiate pets, nothing to the extent of a griffin, but giving a big cat, big cat things like spots, stripes, lion hairs, saber teeth or giving a saurian saurian things such as horns, wings, spikes, and so on, stuff like that.

Since we are on the topic of robots, it would be neat to see robotic options for creatures. Like a robo panther or something.

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I'll throw out the idea of

I'll throw out the idea of being able to have elementals as minions too.

Possibly even elemental/energy versions of other minions too, to go with the above suggestions of having robot versions.

Edit: Also cyborg versions, and animals with little mind control helmets on.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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So... pets will be

So... pets will be customizable in both power and aesthetics (decoupled), just to a more limited extent than PCs?

That is awesome.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

So... pets will be customizable in both power and aesthetics (decoupled), just to a more limited extent than PCs?

That is awesome.

I don't think that is what he said.
I think he meant that pet sets will be designed with aesthetic decoupling but the sets themselves will still have their mechanics pre-designed.

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

So... pets will be customizable in both power and aesthetics (decoupled), just to a more limited extent than PCs?

That is awesome.

I don't think that is what he said.
I think he meant that pet sets will be designed with aesthetic decoupling but the sets themselves will still have their mechanics pre-designed.

Exactly. You can customize pets the way you configure powers. That’s not the same as configuring the powers of pets.

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We might be able to configure

We might be able to configure the aesthetics of the pet powers though, in the same way we can for our characters themselves. If they have a ranged attack that could be a variety of different colors and styles from laser to shuriken. It seems like the devs are saying both the powers and the actual look of the pets themselves will be customizable. Which makes sense if you think about it, since the ability to modify those things will already be in the game. Once those are done for the character creator it would not take a great deal of additional effort to enable them for pets if there is a lot of asset re-use. Even in CoH most pet powers had looks and aesthetics that were largely borrowed from npcs or player costumes and powers already in the game. It makes sense to do so. That also means the aesthetics available for customization of pets and pets powers can grow in a similar manner to the characters themselves since you would be using the same assets for both. Any time the art team makes a new prop, texture, particle effect, etc, there isn't a compelling reason to limit it to just pet or player customization.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
Brainbot wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

So... pets will be customizable in both power and aesthetics (decoupled), just to a more limited extent than PCs?

That is awesome.

I don't think that is what he said.
I think he meant that pet sets will be designed with aesthetic decoupling but the sets themselves will still have their mechanics pre-designed.

Exactly. You can customize pets the way you configure powers. That’s not the same as configuring the powers of pets.

Ah. I read those posts quickly and after a couple of drinks. Broke my "no posting while drinking" rule. Still pretty awesome, though :).

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Hello, so from were are we

Hello, so from were are we able to buy the game for BETA? any one knows?
Please.

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nightwings89 wrote:
nightwings89 wrote:

Hello, so from were are we able to buy the game for BETA? any one knows?
Please.

With the most minimal amount of searching possible, CoT is not out to the public for a Beta, Alpha, or any other Latin or Greek letter. Don't hold your breath, it won't be this year. The chargen may release, but not actual gameplay in the world.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
nightwings89 wrote:

Hello, so from were are we able to buy the game for BETA? any one knows?
Please.

With the most minimal amount of searching possible, CoT is not out to the public for a Beta, Alpha, or any other Latin or Greek letter. Don't hold your breath, it won't be this year. The chargen may release, but not actual gameplay in the world.

Also once this game does begin open beta testing I suspect that fact will be literally smeared all over this website. That's not exactly going to be the kind of thing that'll be kept secret here. Once it happens the info about how it'll work and how you can participate will be very easy to find.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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turett wrote:
turett wrote:

You guys ever notice how nearly every discussion on the Internet turns into a debate?

Fixed that for you.

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