notears wrote:

Also? In the future we need melee sets that don't do physical damage, like maybe an atrophic melee set. Also a control set based around putting up barriers of different shapes and sizes that deal damage to those around them, though I guess it could work as a support set that grants resistance to allies near these walls, also stance based powersets like dual pistols, staff melee and bio armour in CoX, stuff that does different stuff depending on what stance toggle you have on, and a combo based ranged set like a ranged variant on tactical combat.

I agree. I have at least two character concepts in mind that are meleeish but the don’t do directly physical damage. Old love to bring some of my old concepts to life in ways I couldn’t in COH.

Tannim222 wrote:

notears wrote:

Also? In the future we need melee sets that don't do physical damage, like maybe an atrophic melee set. Also a control set based around putting up barriers of different shapes and sizes that deal damage to those around them, though I guess it could work as a support set that grants resistance to allies near these walls, also stance based powersets like dual pistols, staff melee and bio armour in CoX, stuff that does different stuff depending on what stance toggle you have on, and a combo based ranged set like a ranged variant on tactical combat.

Whistles innocently...

You see the problem with notear's post is that he threw out a whole bunch of ideas that you were able to generically "whistle innocently" to without getting caught. The next time someone has a bunch of ideas like this they ought to post each one in a different post to force Rednames like Tannim to basically have to specifically identify the ONE idea that's likely going to be happening in CoT. ;)

Ok sorry. to be a bit more serious, there is a reason more physical type sets were chosen.

Energy and Exotic tend to have more mechanics and we wanted to get Sets in that we could design and test within reason. Some of the sets I’ve planned needed their basic mechanics implemented before we dove deep.

Atrophic Melee was possible and originally slated as a launch Melee Set. It was decided to set it aside for another set that had more interesting mechanics which we could use later in development with data to back up our other designs.

While you won’t probably see a barrier based control set - there are / may be some barrier powers in the game.

We’ve avoided “stance” based sets that rely on additional UI elements to pull off because we ofnthe additinal time to mess with adding more UI elements and the complexity of testing the variations of each stance in a set. Especially for launch.

You probably won’t see “stances” in the sense thought of like how the old game did things with extra UI elements anyway. We have a fairly robust power designer system which can let us to some crafty things and the Mimentum meter we can use to leverage a change in mechanics if we need.

Also take a look at Solid Form - it is a very basic “stance-like” Set that incorporates player behavior into deciding how to play - move around and be relatively tough, stand still and be really tough. It is a good start using both system mechanics and behavioral play mechanics into making a power set.

Fireheart wrote:

I'm still eager to see Gravity Control as a melee set. I want to make a 'Tanker', Stalwart > Centurion with Gravity powers.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Be neat to have melee abilities that draw foes towards you.

Or a protection set that make you a gravity well.

Lothic wrote:

Project_Hero wrote:

Fireheart wrote:

I'm still eager to see Gravity Control as a melee set. I want to make a 'Tanker', Stalwart > Centurion with Gravity powers.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Be neat to have melee abilities that draw foes towards you.

Or a protection set that make you a gravity well.

Would such powers compress your character down into a cute little spherical singularity? ;)

You could call him "Dark Matter Lad" or some-such...

Cute spherical singularity?

[img]https://aff5fa4925746bf9c161-fb36f18ca122a30f6899af8eef8fa39b.ssl.cf5.rackcdn.com/images/Masthead_Kirby.17345b1513ac044897cfc243542899dce541e8dc.9afde10b.png[/img]

notears wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:

Ok sorry. to be a bit more serious, there is a reason more physical type sets were chosen.

Energy and Exotic tend to have more mechanics and we wanted to get Sets in that we could design and test within reason. Some of the sets I’ve planned needed their basic mechanics implemented before we dove deep.

Atrophic Melee was possible and originally slated as a launch Melee Set. It was decided to set it aside for another set that had more interesting mechanics which we could use later in development with data to back up our other designs.

While you won’t probably see a barrier based control set - there are / may be some barrier powers in the game.

We’ve avoided “stance” based sets that rely on additional UI elements to pull off because we ofnthe additinal time to mess with adding more UI elements and the complexity of testing the variations of each stance in a set. Especially for launch.

You probably won’t see “stances” in the sense thought of like how the old game did things with extra UI elements anyway. We have a fairly robust power designer system which can let us to some crafty things and the Mimentum meter we can use to leverage a change in mechanics if we need.

Also take a look at Solid Form - it is a very basic “stance-like” Set that incorporates player behavior into deciding how to play - move around and be relatively tough, stand still and be really tough. It is a good start using both system mechanics and behavioral play mechanics into making a power set.

Alright well if that's the case how about a a defensive that's the opposite of solid form, one where you get evasion bonuses, rather than resistance bonuses depending on how much you move, heck how about an offensive powerset like ranged or melee that deals more damage the more you move, like I can imagine wolverine and Spider-Man having a melee primary like that.

That’s an interesting idea! I wonder if momentum can be used as part of the mechanic for melee like you just said, the more you move the more damage gets built up... that would lend to a Flash style melee fighter nicely.

Yeah started thinking that through and almost mentioned it as a bone for the twitch dogs but thought better of it. Maybe one day down the line...

I think CO's super speed had a bonus to damage if you ran then stopped. And if I remember correctly it was buggy as heck and never worked.

notears wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:

Jousting is setting up an attack prior or during movement to attack your target and continue moving to avoid a counter attack. Repeated often you can take out tough enemies without ever needing a protection power.

Even if you have an attack that gives a movement buff, each attack affects the a movement stat on the character sheet debuting the entire stat. Meaning, no matter how fast you are moving, the same number of consecutive attacks will result in self-rooting as someone with zero movement buffs. You don’t get more attacks in resulting in no advantage gained.

Lunge stackss are an exception, not a rule. Even then, after each attack used, he movement of the character is suppressed. A cone attack starts off rooting the character - even if it moves the character as part of the powe effect, if the intent is a damage buff based on movement - once rooted the damage buff is gone the Power is triggered and no buff will be applied to that attack.

Then how about if the damage from the movement buff doesn't stop all together but rather decreases in time like how solid form doesn't immediately get rid of it buffs as soon as you move but rather weakens them over time until you stop moving, maybe that could work. Also maybe the added bonus of the attacks aren't movement buffs but rather most of them move the character in some way and there's a toggle that makes these movements longer, maybe we can make it a momentum type powerset and have powers that boost these movements based on how much momentum y

If the buff ticks down from beginning movement, it isn’t going to stack up well as you attack. In fact over time it is worse because each attack debuff movmenet.

All attacks affect all forms of movement so even if the power “moved the character” the new movmentntomlovation would be debuffed. This additional mivment Tina new location after an attack would be clunky because you would have to click to attack, and click your location placement - requiring additional code on the activation ability.

notears wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:

notears wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:

Jousting is setting up an attack prior or during movement to attack your target and continue moving to avoid a counter attack. Repeated often you can take out tough enemies without ever needing a protection power.

Even if you have an attack that gives a movement buff, each attack affects the a movement stat on the character sheet debuting the entire stat. Meaning, no matter how fast you are moving, the same number of consecutive attacks will result in self-rooting as someone with zero movement buffs. You don’t get more attacks in resulting in no advantage gained.

Lunge stackss are an exception, not a rule. Even then, after each attack used, he movement of the character is suppressed. A cone attack starts off rooting the character - even if it moves the character as part of the powe effect, if the intent is a damage buff based on movement - once rooted the damage buff is gone the Power is triggered and no buff will be applied to that attack.

Then how about if the damage from the movement buff doesn't stop all together but rather decreases in time like how solid form doesn't immediately get rid of it buffs as soon as you move but rather weakens them over time until you stop moving, maybe that could work. Also maybe the added bonus of the attacks aren't movement buffs but rather most of them move the character in some way and there's a toggle that makes these movements longer, maybe we can make it a momentum type powerset and have powers that boost these movements based on how much momentum y

If the buff ticks down from beginning movement, it isn’t going to stack up well as you attack. In fact over time it is worse because each attack debuff movmenet.

All attacks affect all forms of movement so even if the power “moved the character” the new movmentntomlovation would be debuffed. This additional mivment Tina new location after an attack would be clunky because you would have to click to attack, and click your location placement - requiring additional code on the activation ability.

What about my second idea then? Ditch the whole damage buff based on movement thing, I see that it would contrast with the whole combat thing you have going on, but how about something that works on the same premise as force blast and super strength but their big thing is moving yourself rather than the enemy, like each power has a lunge attached to it and depending on how you activate it the lunge either sends you back or forth. Maybe you could even add a toggle like super strength's brute strength power only instead of effecting the knock back it affects your lunge. Would that work?

We would have to make each attack an actual lunge attack at the time of activation not after. Lunge attacks either move you to a selected target or location. We can’t move the character without direct player input. That could have adverse affects - like sending you into a target zone you didn’t want to be in.

notears wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:

notears wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:

notears wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:

Jousting is setting up an attack prior or during movement to attack your target and continue moving to avoid a counter attack. Repeated often you can take out tough enemies without ever needing a protection power.

Even if you have an attack that gives a movement buff, each attack affects the a movement stat on the character sheet debuting the entire stat. Meaning, no matter how fast you are moving, the same number of consecutive attacks will result in self-rooting as someone with zero movement buffs. You don’t get more attacks in resulting in no advantage gained.

Lunge stackss are an exception, not a rule. Even then, after each attack used, he movement of the character is suppressed. A cone attack starts off rooting the character - even if it moves the character as part of the powe effect, if the intent is a damage buff based on movement - once rooted the damage buff is gone the Power is triggered and no buff will be applied to that attack.

Then how about if the damage from the movement buff doesn't stop all together but rather decreases in time like how solid form doesn't immediately get rid of it buffs as soon as you move but rather weakens them over time until you stop moving, maybe that could work. Also maybe the added bonus of the attacks aren't movement buffs but rather most of them move the character in some way and there's a toggle that makes these movements longer, maybe we can make it a momentum type powerset and have powers that boost these movements based on how much momentum y

If the buff ticks down from beginning movement, it isn’t going to stack up well as you attack. In fact over time it is worse because each attack debuff movmenet.

All attacks affect all forms of movement so even if the power “moved the character” the new movmentntomlovation would be debuffed. This additional mivment Tina new location after an attack would be clunky because you would have to click to attack, and click your location placement - requiring additional code on the activation ability.

What about my second idea then? Ditch the whole damage buff based on movement thing, I see that it would contrast with the whole combat thing you have going on, but how about something that works on the same premise as force blast and super strength but their big thing is moving yourself rather than the enemy, like each power has a lunge attached to it and depending on how you activate it the lunge either sends you back or forth. Maybe you could even add a toggle like super strength's brute strength power only instead of effecting the knock back it affects your lunge. Would that work?

We would have to make each attack an actual lunge attack at the time of activation not after. Lunge attacks either move you to a selected target or location. We can’t move the character without direct player input. That could have adverse affects - like sending you into a target zone you didn’t want to be in.

Well then, what if it was later on in the game? Like a year down the line?

Later isn’t an issue. The fundamental mechanic of moving the character without a selected location or target by the player is a non-starter.

We can do lunge attacker. We have a few at launch. The player selected the target or location. We won’t have a power that a player of their own character uses that changes the their character’s location to a place the player did not directly input.

We can’t have an activation for location selection of a power that occurs after the power is selected due to how the animation system is designed.

notears wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:

notears wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:

notears wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:

notears wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:

Jousting is setting up an attack prior or during movement to attack your target and continue moving to avoid a counter attack. Repeated often you can take out tough enemies without ever needing a protection power.

Even if you have an attack that gives a movement buff, each attack affects the a movement stat on the character sheet debuting the entire stat. Meaning, no matter how fast you are moving, the same number of consecutive attacks will result in self-rooting as someone with zero movement buffs. You don’t get more attacks in resulting in no advantage gained.

Lunge stackss are an exception, not a rule. Even then, after each attack used, he movement of the character is suppressed. A cone attack starts off rooting the character - even if it moves the character as part of the powe effect, if the intent is a damage buff based on movement - once rooted the damage buff is gone the Power is triggered and no buff will be applied to that attack.

Then how about if the damage from the movement buff doesn't stop all together but rather decreases in time like how solid form doesn't immediately get rid of it buffs as soon as you move but rather weakens them over time until you stop moving, maybe that could work. Also maybe the added bonus of the attacks aren't movement buffs but rather most of them move the character in some way and there's a toggle that makes these movements longer, maybe we can make it a momentum type powerset and have powers that boost these movements based on how much momentum y

If the buff ticks down from beginning movement, it isn’t going to stack up well as you attack. In fact over time it is worse because each attack debuff movmenet.

All attacks affect all forms of movement so even if the power “moved the character” the new movmentntomlovation would be debuffed. This additional mivment Tina new location after an attack would be clunky because you would have to click to attack, and click your location placement - requiring additional code on the activation ability.

What about my second idea then? Ditch the whole damage buff based on movement thing, I see that it would contrast with the whole combat thing you have going on, but how about something that works on the same premise as force blast and super strength but their big thing is moving yourself rather than the enemy, like each power has a lunge attached to it and depending on how you activate it the lunge either sends you back or forth. Maybe you could even add a toggle like super strength's brute strength power only instead of effecting the knock back it affects your lunge. Would that work?

We would have to make each attack an actual lunge attack at the time of activation not after. Lunge attacks either move you to a selected target or location. We can’t move the character without direct player input. That could have adverse affects - like sending you into a target zone you didn’t want to be in.

Well then, what if it was later on in the game? Like a year down the line?

Later isn’t an issue. The fundamental mechanic of moving the character without a selected location or target by the player is a non-starter.

We can do lunge attacker. We have a few at launch. The player selected the target or location. We won’t have a power that a player of their own character uses that changes the their character’s location to a place the player did not directly input.

We can’t have an activation for location selection of a power that occurs after the power is selected due to how the animation system is designed.

fine, fine then, I consent, can't make a mobile heavy set. Got it. What about a melee version of Psionic Blast? Like make a set based on controls and dealing more damage to controlled enemies, or how about a melee/ranged/assault set but one focused on debuffing your enemy and dealing more damage to those you've debuffed, I mean I know lethality and vampiric blast kind of do that but, I'm thinking more in a way that psionic blast works but with debuffs instead of controls

All I can say to that is we have many sets planned for several years worth of releases.

While such a movement based set may sound awesome on paper I fail to see the practical advantage of it since to me it sounds like it would get annoying in the long run, especially if it was melee centric due to having to "run back" to your target after almost every single attack.

Cool, thank you. I didn't know about the tertiary that is proposed. With aesthetic decoupling, you bring up a good point. Ranged would likely still have an advantage unless there is some killer melee only mechanic that would make it a competitive choice. Perhaps an assassination skill that is on par with or maybe better than a snipe? or melee triggered defensive or retaliation with a cooldown, idk...
From a "stalker" pov I still like the concept more than a ranged but that's just a personal playstyle preference more that anything else.