I'm very excited by what I'm seeing with the char gen creator! I was a tiny tot when I started playing City of Heroes. I believe I was only ten when I logged in for the first time, lured by the promise of City of Villains around the corner. I remember the awe, the excitement, the joy of discovery. And I remember when I first found out that the reason my body was slowly falling apart was because I had been diagnosed with ALS. I was 14 then, and Issue 14, Architect, had just come out. To escape my problems, I escaped into Paragon City and the Rogue Isles, making my own missions, trying to work out the issues I was dealing with in the world of heroes and villains, or at least to avoid thinking about them.
For awhile after I found myself confined to a wheelchair, I desperately wished that I could fly, and run, and jump, and not feel so trapped. And CoX was my outlet. But looking back on it now, I think what I really would have liked instead of the promise of something I couldn't have, was to see that people just like me could still be heroes (or supervillains!) without having the use of our legs.
And I'm sure there's other people out there, with other disabilities, loss of limbs, of sight, of hearing, who would like to be able to play a super hero/villain MMO and go, "That's me. That person is like me, and they can still do all these amazing things!"
I know it may be a bit late in the creative process to be proposing this (I wish I'd gotten involved sooner!), but would the possibility of models and character design that allows people who aren't necessarily going to have the same type of mobility and such as others be at all something to consider? I know some of it can just be handled by story, such as robotic limbs and what not. But perhaps wheelchair options, crutches, or the option to be missing limbs or body parts without replacement, might be something to consider?
I know that if this wasn't already planned, it's highly unlikely to come about due to the needed effort involved to program and design all this, to see how to fit it into an existing system that wasn't meant for it, and so on.
But I at least wanted to share my story and make the suggestion, just in case.
The chargen pre-alpha video said we can "make anybody". I hope that can be as close to truth as possible, within reason, and not just a marketing slogan.
Heroes like Daredevil (Marvel), Oracle/Barbara Gordon (DC), and Silhouette (Marvel) are just a few examples of how this could be made to work, and has been, and I'm sure there's many others.
I don't know if City of Titans will be allowing villains too or not (I'm very new here), but I certainly would hope they would have these options too, if so.
Thank you for taking the time to read this!
I also would like to see some sort of disability represented here. I don't think it would be an issue to portray a blind hero like Daredevil.
But to portray his secret identity as a blind lawyer with a cane, that is where things get interesting. I suppose a special set of animations would be needed when that particular [url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/1919464][i]prop[/i][/url] is equipped. Seems simple enough. But I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a superhero game like CoT to create special animations solely for the use of your non-super secret identity.
You also mentioned Silhouette. Since she has both leg braces and crutches, I see them being applied as separate things in character creation. The leg braces would probably be a simple costume item that wouldn't affect existing animations or motions at all. But the crutches would need a suite of animations associated with them, like any prop would. Here is an image capturing some of her moves with them:
[img]http://www.writeups.org/wp-content/uploads/Silhouette-New-Warriors-Marvel-Comics-h1.jpg[/img]
I think that would be pretty kickass for an animation set.
And I think the animations associated with them could be used for character designs with all sorts of arm extension props. In fact, it would probably open up a whole new family of props that act as arm extensions. I could even see "gorilla arms" being an option now, if they weren't already.
I think the devs have already stated that invisible limbs will not be a thing because of issues associated with capping the end pieces of the visible body parts. And missing limbs would require all new animations for each combination of limbs, potentially increasing the animation workload of all existing animations by 24 times. So I don't think that is a realistic expectation either. However, Robotic and other prosthetic solutions can save the day and I have absolute faith that we will see prosthetics for every appendage, even the head.
It's funny that you mentioned ALS. Not funny ha-ha, but funny curiously coincident. I have had a character idea in which the character has MS or ALS and uses a wheelchair to get around. But that's the character's secret identity. When the character meditates, he is able to summon a golden glowing avatar who strikes an heroic pose and is able to be everything the character can't; physically, at least. So it can fly and do battle and has a great social life. But he can only maintain the avatar for short periods of time. No one knows that it is him. Everyone thinks that this glowing celestial is a new hero in town. They don't realize that it is just the avatar of a hero-worshipping and idealistic 15 year old boy.
As a result, I think his pure altruism has a positive effect on the somewhat jaded adult heroes he interacts with. I guess it would be kind of like a combination of [url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1856057/?ref_=tt_urv]Phantom Boy[/url] and Shazam. I've been wanting to write a series of missions associated with this character for the CoT writers, but after two years of pestering them, they have yet to get back to me so I'm just going to make it one of my own characters and put the story in his bio page.
But back to your point. I do hope that wheelchairs are included in CoT somehow. Any kind of seated conveyance would work. From a character in a permanent lotus position, to a character on a floating throne, to a character with the lower half of a genie-like cloud; they would all be similar to a wheelchair as far as animations are concerned.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Welcome aboard, your highness!
(Note: Not a dev, just been here a while)
Unfortunately, I think there will be problems with making characters that are missing limbs. OTOH, if you look at the lore on Anthem, especially the Kickstarter update [url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/1635093]A Terminal Device Doesn't Mean What You Think It Does (Side Project)[/url], I think you'll find reason to hope that the devs at least looked into the possibility. Also, wheelchairs have been asked for as vehicles, but again, I'm not sure how soon that can be made to happen.
Also, yes, there will be PC villains. The tutorial is apparently a bank robbery in progress, and one of the first alignment decisions you make for your character is, Are you there to stop the robbery? Or is it YOUR robbery?
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Yeah, I saw similar possibilities, where it wouldn't JUST be restricted to wheelchairs, etc. I somewhat suspected missing limbs wouldn't be an option if it wasn't built around that from the start, but I'm glad to see that there's already been exploration and that wheelchairs themselves may yet be a possibility! It's great to escape from your real life and do all kinds of amazing things, but it's also great to see someone just like yourself doing amazing things too. Thank you for the reply, and the explanations! And yeah, Silhouette is awesome (and Oracle and Daredevil), so seeing fighting styles and powers and props (I assume that are like a cross between costume pieces and weapons, like Titan Weapons, Ninja Sword, Shield Mastery, etc.?) that take them into account.
Thanks again!
Thank you for the welcome! Yes, it is heartening to see that they have explored the possibility on their own, as well as that there is already a demand for accommodating wheelchair usage. I'm very excited about this project and wish I had known and been able to contribute earlier. It seems that the kickstarter is already closed or something because I don't see a donate button anywhere. :( Still, hopefully the devs are still open to suggestions and will work on this possibility! And that looks like a really cool side project already just from what I've read, and I'll check it out shortly!
One of the many reasons I couldn't stick with Champions Online (aside from it being an inferior product to CoX and also made by the same people who killed CoX) was the lack of villain playability. DCU Online is simply a disappointment on every level (one or two weeks of beta testing before launching it. Ugh), and not worth the hassle of playing a villain who is just a rip-off of another villain. It has long been my dream to be an Evil Overlord and Rule The World, so I'm glad that's going to be an option.
Overall, I'm just very happy with this in general. It's being made by people who played and loved the best super hero MMO of all time, so I fully expect that this will turn out better than the mediocre games that have filled the gaps, because we all know how to make a game like this properly. And the fact that they are trying to be inclusive of everyone in chargen alone is very exciting evidence of that.
Thank you, again!
/em evil laugh
So you'd like to contribute? Currently there are three options, or four if you count waiting for the upcoming "Second Chance", which will be a big thing like the Kickstarter was with some of the same donor rewards.
First is up at the top of the page. If you have a menu bar, there should be a button labeled "merchandise". If not, click the "Navigation" button, and it will be in the drop-down menu. T-shirts. Coffee cups. That sort of thing.
Next is down at the bottom of the page: look for an icon that looks like a coffee cup. It links to a Ko-Fi page. No rewards AFAIK except a warm feeling.
Third, and my favorite, is to go to https://www.patreon.com/HiJinx ! If they get monthly donations up to $3K, they plan on making a public website for their comics. Well, it was there somewhere, I don't see it now. Wait, there it is, under "Pledge $1" But it would be great, word would spread far and wide of the City of Titans! Alas, their current funding is a bit short of that. But you can help! Go, read what's not pledge-locked, and pledge whatever you can!
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
As the others have said welcome to the forums.
I think many of us here have fond memories of our times in CoH and we're all hoping for the best with CoT. Many of the topics you've mention have already been debated here in the forums and/or suggested for possible inclusion into the game. The Devs have often told us they have many grand ideas for this game and definitely expect to be adding many new options and features after the initial launch of the game.
There have been several suggestions for wheelchairs of various types over the years. I think most people are thinking of doing Professor X clones. The Devs want to implement "vehicles" in some form or fashion in this game so I would expect they'll at least consider what they could do for those. I imagine if they can eventually figure out things like motorcycles or gyrocoptors that creating wheelchairs would not be too far out of the question.
We've also talked extensively about how "missing limbs" might work and the Devs have chimed in on those conversations. We all know the Devs of CoH were able to creatively "trick" their game system into doing all sorts of things they initially claimed were going to be very hard or impossible to do (like animated wings and tails) so it's always possible the CoT folks may figure out some way to make that work eventually.
There are several active threads in this forum that are doing their best to capture all the many suggestions people have been asking for over the years. There's at least three separate threads each for emotes, props and costumes I'm aware of. Feel free to add any ideas you might have for things like crutches or maybe leg braces (that could implemented as special costume items) into those threads. The hope of course is that keeping all those ideas in one place will help the Devs prioritize what they might be able to add to the game.
Hopefully we'll be getting some kind of initial build of the character creator for CoT in the coming months and perhaps even have some version of the game to play by the end of the year. You might technically be "late to the party" but at least you've arrived here just in time for tangible things to start happening. :)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
As the others have said, Welcome!
I am all for wheelchairs, canes, etc being in the game.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Might not have for launch, but I'm game.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
I agree.
Especially considering how many of our team have a range of challenges, I don’t think there will be any push back from finding ways to include some form of representation that players can portray through their characters.
Having spend multiple months in a wheel chair myself, and having to learn to walk again on my own (no insurance, no medical care), I can sympathize with the desire to have something like that represented.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
What did we figure out the other day? Over half of our team have some form of disability.
I am color blind, for example. Specific subtype Protanopia if you're curious. Killed off what career options I was interested in as a kid. Also means I can never drive legally in many countries.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Aww yeah!
I originally wanted my robotics mastermind to be wheelchair bound, though that wasn't really something I could do in CoH. If we get the opportunity for it in CoT, I'll be very happy.
I believe someone - can't remember who, precisely - was on the autism spectrum? That was really heartening to hear for me, given I'm there.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
We have a few, including the guy who is for all practical purposes my boss: Terwyn
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
The number of colorblind devs we have is downright astounding.
Those of us with disabilities also tend to have more than one; personally, I am epileptic and colorblind (and more than one other that I'm not disclosing).
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Conundrum of Furballs
[color=#ff0000]Composition Team, Staff Writer[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
Google quickly tells me that 1 in 12 men and 1 in 200 women in the world are color blind. I'm sure most of you guys already know but a few years ago they came up with [url=http://enchroma.com/]corrective glasses[/url] that can supposedly help in 4 out of 5 cases of red-green color blindness. I found that interesting and just wanted to pass along the info to those who didn't know.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
As I said, I have Protanopia. That is red-blue color blindness, not red-green. Those glasses do nothing for me. It's more rare than color color blindness, with less than 1% of those affected by color blindness having it.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Being heroes and all, wouldn't a missing limb hero be easily done with cybernetics?
Maybe do what was done in Gen-13 with a guy who had energy limbs.
Depends on the hero, how readily available high tech prosthetics are in the settings, how much they cost, etc.
Not every hero starts knowing someone who can make them a crazy cyber limb.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Welcome. If you're not already aware of it, you may want to keep an eye on CRISPR. It's breakthrough gene editing technology that may offer curing options for a wide range of previously untreatable diseases including ALS.
Viable human treatments are years off as it typically takes about 12 years and $300 million to get a new drug to market, but by being aware and keeping an eye on it you could get some relief years before your doctor would suggest it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-scientist.com/%3farticles.amp/articleNo/51221/title/CRISPR-Proves-Promising-for-Treating-ALS-in-Mice/
"THE TITANS ARE COMING! THE TOTANS ARE COMING!"
Dr., I know this example is still the "other" type, but you also may want to keep an eye out for CRISPR treatments. There's a few other gene editing systems, but CRISPR is the hot one at the moment.
http://www.neitzvision.com/research/gene-therapy/
"THE TITANS ARE COMING! THE TITANS ARE COMING"
I'll definitely look and see what I can contribute! Don't have a lot of money right now, but something is better than nothing. Hopefully I'll have more for the second kickstarter! Thank you!
Yeah, though I feel like I missed a lot of the community over the years while I've been wallowing in my despair over no more CoX. T_T Thankfully I've found a MUSH where I can roleplay it, and built a recreation of Paragon City in text form, with room descriptions, exits, etc. About to return to it here shortly. I was playing Dr. Vahzilok pre-insanity, all the way up to when he went over the edge, along with Cortex, Facemaker, etc. The whole tragic arc of them falling to madness. Also War Witch/Apex/Horus as a team. But it's such a gigantic setting and I was trying to stick to the timeline of actual IC events, and running it all was too draining, so I had to step away from it.
Did commission some awesome art at least.
https://doctorvahzilok.deviantart.com/art/City-of-Heroes-Demetrios-Vasilikos-555291160
https://doctorvahzilok.deviantart.com/art/City-of-Heroes-Cortex-555291508
https://doctorvahzilok.deviantart.com/art/City-of-Heroes-Faith-Maccabe-aka-Face-Maker-555293131
https://doctorvahzilok.deviantart.com/art/City-of-Heroes-Sorry-558457993
https://doctorvahzilok.deviantart.com/art/War-Witch-614564874
https://doctorvahzilok.deviantart.com/art/Apex-630969792
https://doctorvahzilok.deviantart.com/art/Horus-630971701
So I haven't allowed the torch of heroism (or the lantern of villainy) die, and will be glad to get back into things once it's available!
Thank you!
Awesome! :D Looking forward to it!
Yeah, I'm also blind in my right eye. Once you start getting problems, they just keep piling up. Representation is definitely an awesome goal to pursue. I realize it's a bit off-topic, but since it's never really been divorced from the comic book genre, romance and orientation other than "heterosexual" would also be good to see.
So many people to respond to! This is quite a friendly community so far! Thank you, everyone! And I'll definitely investigate that. I'm thankfully one of the lucky ones whose symptoms stopped progressing (at least for now), but being able to "fix" this entirely would definitely be welcome. To be honest, now that I've accepted it and made peace with it, I'm almost reluctant to see the wheelchair go. XD
But if this even works, it sounds like it's going to be a long wait, so I won't have to worry about that any time soon.
Also, mice are really not a great test bed for human drugs due to their lack of biological similarity with us. Testing on mice is a terrible idea, in general, for that reason. Something that might work for them could be not at all appropriate or safe for humans. So I'm not holding my breath, but I'll keep an eye on it.
Oh, yeah, and here's my commission of Adamastor too.
https://doctorvahzilok.deviantart.com/art/City-of-Heroes-Adamastor-555290565
And that's my cue! As many other wonderful folks have said welcome to the forums!
Hi, I'm Impulse King and for many years I have been in charge of the "Gay/Gay-friendly SuperGroup" thread. The staff and community have been very supportive of us throughout that time as we carry the torch of the old Pride global channel from CoH. Please check us out at your leisure at
https://cityoftitans.com/forum/gaygay-friendly-super-group
We are always accepting new members should you, or anyone else, wish to join.
(Normally I wouldn't push the SG outside the thread, but how was I supposed to resist a setup like that? I'm only human and the marketing nerd in me is STRONG!)
We keep up the discussion of disabled characters and the obligatory Katawa Shoujo meme will come up, so I figure save the time:
[img]http://fakeposters.com.s3.amazonaws.com/results/2012/07/21/lb4vq3nhx8.jpg[/img]
(Game is NSFW, this was one of the few motivational posters which meets our T for Teen rating board level)
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Wheelchairs bring to mind all sorts of interesting things.
Take spider-climb, and have it be an anti-grav chair capable of redirecting gravity onto any surface (including the ceiling).
Take flight and put rockets on it.
Take teleport and say there's a teleporting gizmo built into the chair.
Take superspeed and say there's a nos button.
As for why someone in comic-land wouldn't have been cured...
Maybe they're incompatible with the tech. Their brain just doesn't work with cybernetic feedback. Or, something happened to their cells that make them fail if someone even attempts gene therapy.
Or maybe they can't afford it.
Or maybe they don't want it for ideological reasons.
Or maybe their power is tied to their disability (Xavier: "If I want to be telepathic, I can't take the drug what makes my spinal chord work." Anyone else: "How does that make sense?" Xavier: "Because... shut up.")
Also, in comics, if your injury is iconic, it can't be cured, because curing it would result in decreased recognition and thus decreased sales. That's why Xavier will always return to the chair. It's also why Nick Fury can never have his eye fixed permanently. Or why Daredevil can never have his eyes fixed permanently. Or why Deathstroke can never get his eye fixed permanently. Or why Stick can never get his eyes fixed permanently.
Huh... ever notice that one of the most represented disabilities in comics is the only one that would prevent the person who has it from viewing a comic?
But back on topic, if I were to make a paralyzed character on day 1, I'd probably try to use what's likely to already be in the game to make it look like they have robotic braces on their legs. Think Rhodes at the end of Civil War.
To be hyper-picky I wasn't really responding to you directly about this - I was responding to ConundrumofFurballs. I'm sorry these glasses might not help you personally, but if there are really that many among the MWM staff who have "color blindness" in general then who knows, maybe these glasses could help some of them or anyone else who might have read this post. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I don't see what I am joining there. Is this in Paragon Chat or something for CoT? How do I join?
A few years ago I had heard all the hype about [url=https://www.katawa-shoujo.com/]that game[/url] and gave it a try. It was so powerful, of course I had to get all the endings. I would recommend it to anyone, even a teen because the NSFW parts are pretty much necessary to the story.
I'd never done one of these types of games before and haven't done another since, but it was quite an emotional experience for me. Sounds silly to say that about a dating sim. But if anyone reading this hasn't tried it out yet, I can't recommend it highly enough.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
My sister plays VN's, so I decided I'd try some out. Went to a "Recommended Free Visual Novel" list, and KS was #3 on that list.
Da feelz!
[img]https://images2.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED153/550e1c5bdc6e2.jpeg[/img]
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Gah. *loads up and picks Rin's path for the 18th time*
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Katawa Shoujo is just one of those things that turned out way better than expected. A group of 4chan users set out to make an 18+ visual novel about dating girls with disabilities. And it turns out to be well written, thought provoking, and respectful. Like, who saw THAT coming?
Also as someone who is also colorblind, seeing so many people on the development team be colorblind as well gives me some comfort in that this game will be fairly unlikely to have any major color issues. I remember when Bonus XP got into CoH, I couldn't tell the difference between the bonus color and the earned XP color. Usually it's red and green that I confuse, but that light blue and light pink caused some trouble, too. I think I just see less red than normal.
Wait....
There was a difference in color?
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Yeah CoH used different colors overlayed on the same XP bar as McNum described. It was called "Patrol XP" and they used a light pink and a light blue color to differentiate between "earned XP" and "bonus XP". Here's an example pic of it from the [url=https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Patrol_Experience]Paragon Wiki[/url] page discussing it:
[img=500x500]https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//3/35/UI_Status_Patrol_XP.jpg[/img]
Just in case you can't see it the bottom bar is light pink from the far left side (where the little 'XP' is labelled) until roughly in between the capital 'T' and little 'a' in the word "Target" above it. The rest of the bar is in light blue.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
That image is from after they changed the color. Initially, it was literally impossible for me to tell the difference. It took an issue or two, but then it looked like that.
They could have fixed it initially by leaving a vertical black gap between the two bars or something. Instead they broke one important rule of accessibility: Never display something with color alone.
First, Welcome, Princess Paladin. Good to have you here.
So, my 2c in micronovella format (sorry)
I'm one of the few in my family whose work doesn't directly involve assisting or individuals with disabilities (audio impairments, visual impairments, cognitive, mobility, and motor control all covered) so I've always tried to keep an eye on how these issues apply to my industry. It's a matter of necessity during holiday gatherings-- otherwise I'd have nothing to talk with anyone about, and anyone who knows me KNOWS I won't let that happen. (Just look at this post, for chrissakes)
There are two areas I hope the developers will examine here: [b]Representative in-game, and representative in-gameplay.[/b]
[b]In-game representation[/b]
This seems to be Princess' main request. The good news here is that from everything we've seen and heard, the devs seem to be putting the infrastructure in place for animation swapping. Although this is hilighted in powers, the concept can be applied anywhere. Just like CoH had the alternate walk "powers" and alternate flight poses, it would at least be possible to represent an array of alternate animations in this way.
One of the challenges here is offering a full range of animations across the board for something as dramatically different as these can be. Animation blending may help with some of this, but blending has its limitations. We may see an impact faster if they focus on inclusion through their NPCs. These characters will need far fewer animations and exist in very controlled situations. This would allow them to "test the waters" in certain areas and expand upon the animation sets until they're confident they're ready for prime time. Bring in characters with leg braces, wheelchairs (motorized and self-propelled), canes, blind pedestrians, amputees, etc. From there, you can move on to include specialized combat animations for limited powers for some of these NPC's, then see where interest takes them.
[i](As a side note, this may be where CoT's "volunteer contributor" model may allow them the ability to deliver where others wouldn't invest the time. If, once the core elements are addressed, someone came to them and said, "I'm interested in volunteering my animation skills, but really want to include my pet passion- alternate animations for disabled characters" they might be able to accommodate that. Get good animations that they really NEED and then a side package of the animator's pet passion...)[/i]
Another element that must unfortunately be addressed is misuse. A mature, well-managed community can often police themselves, but this IS the internet, and we've probably all had opportunity to see how badly people can behave because of that. Some of the greatest offenders REVEL IN the outrage they generate, so community policing can feed them, rather than force them out. Development teams often opt not to include something in the player's toolbox simply because of this likelihood for abuse. Many online games with character customization have avoided 'extremely fat' models in part due to how frequently they're used to mock or body-shame large people. Even when your intent is intended as benign, different sensitivites to the reality of disabilities can affect how it's perceived. I had two gents in motorized wheelchairs in my class that would cite south park, shout "cripple fight" when crossing one another in the hall, and generally make light at their situation. I also knew people who flinched or grew angry just hearing those shouts of "TimmAY." The game's community relations team has to deal with the fallout of those various extremes.
That may be another reason why something like this would be best as a post-release addition-- it would allow the devs time to evaluate the community, see what their tone and demeanor is, and then even try to nudge it through content and presentation to make them more ready to handle the topic material inclusively, and not divisively.
[b]In-Gameplay Representation [/b]
This is the area I used to spend the most time exploring. People often shrug off potential disabilities as a "but why would they ever try to play the game?" and leave it at that. Why open the chat up to PC text-to-speech software- how is a blind person going to play a 3d game? They don't consider the different degrees of visual impairment- of a person that can make out sufficient lumps of shapes and colors to navigate a map, but can't read text or track a tiny on-screen mouse. They forget color-blindness or the issues discerning high/low contrast and offer customized color schemes for UI's . They offer spectacular special effects that are literally seizure-inducing They don't consider alternate input, and miss the tactile value that a force-feedback buzz while mousing over different on-screen buttons can make, or they limit what can be mapped to the keyboard, creating purely screen-only elements.
In SWG, I had the great fortune to team with a community of deaf players. They all expressed how incredibly enabling the online game was. Very little was conveyed solely via audio input. Text chat gave them a feeling of equal footing with others that they lacked in real life interactions. They felt EMPOWERED online in a way that none of us really expected. The increased adoption of voice chat was an emotional gut punch for them. They were again feeling excluded. If the game was to include in-game voice chat, including apis that would allow audio-to-text-services would be invaluable for this community even if the service itself has a high error rate.
There are other contributors here, just in gameplay. The trend toward more "visceral" gameplay ( I prefer using the term "twitchy") means more time-sensitive hand input, and that means less time available to type messages to the team. This drives more players to voice chat, to the point that some games' raids practically require voice chat to complete. you just can't split your time effectively enough to type mid-battle.
Twitchiness also affects people with varying degrees of motor control impairment. There's a wide array of assistive tools- from hardware (one-hand keyboards to head harnesses to specialized joysticks ) to software (auto-targeters, tools that "slow" single-player games, tandem-play interfaces that let (for example) someone else aim while he shoots. Auto-follow, auto-target, auto click can all provide legit value to make a game accessible (One gent I knew with very limited motor control had a 2nd account auto-follow and macro'ed to heal him, letting him play solo despite his limited reflexes). Difficulty sliders alone are incredibly valuable here. These same tools can be misused by competitive players or botters, so they're often banned from multiplayer games or flagged by anti-cheat software. Striking a balance with these is difficult, and the player base legitimately needing these may be relatively small, but having a system in place for these can be incredibly enriching for people facing any number of challenges.
Finally, keep in mind that many of these accessibility items also affect those who are "temporarily incapicated": Whether you're hearing impaired or just trying to play the game with the speakers off at 2am while waiting for your newborn eat-poop-sleep organic finance inhibitor to move on to the next cycle,
having visual cues for directional audio is invaluable. Heck, CoH had a server community notorious for its "drunk gaming" that practically lived under chemically-induced motor control issues, didn't they?
Chase, this was a well written and insightful post, if you don't mind me saying so.
You brought up some things I never really thought about, but now seem so obvious I wonder why not. In my line of work, that is the hallmark of truth and discovery.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I love your sense of humor doctor!
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
Based on the way he said his Protanopia affects him I didn't think it was worth assuming he was being "funny" about this. Of course as always I could be wrong... *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Yes welcome Princess Paladin!
I couldn’t agree more! I have played several games only a couple times at most for these kinds of issues. The feel and managability of gameplay while learning how to play a game is quite important especially if the game is only marginally in my wheelhouse to begin with. I can only imagine how much harder it would be were I dealing with serious impairments to my ability to interface with the game.
I mean besides the rum. Why would we not keep the rum? It cleans up clipping images nicely...
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
Well you are probably right. I tend to try and see the “funny”, “outlandish”, or at least as I see it, “the hilarity” in a moment and it just struck my funny bone when I read it! ????
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
Well I must admit as a non-color blind person it's hard to imagine what it's like so his statement does at first seem a bit "weird" without that context.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I have to laugh at my condition. No point in whining about it. So it was me joking a bit.
Seriously, I could not tell the difference
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
No worries. As we don't have an actual game just yet, Folks are starting up threads for supergroups in the "Recruitment: Groups and Events" sub forum. We have someone check the thread at least once a day. Joining is as simple as posting in the thread and declaring an interest. Once the game goes live, we will arrange to make a SG and invite those that have asked and be able to easily play together. (That's a basic description for how I assume all forum SGs plan to work. In our case we will also coalition with clans not yet on the forums and those in the thread that may want a "splinter" SG for whatever reasons like PvP or roleplay.)
This was also how we organized in CoH pre-beta.
[Technical note: I have been using CoH terms here for ease, but we know that SuperGroups will be called Super Teams in CoT. Also Coalitions will be called Leagues. We try to keep folks informed of new info as best we can.]
Great artwork! :D
I like this idea. More so, if we have Civilian costumes and such. Having the choice of animations for Wheelchairs, Crutches, and possible prosthesis limps, would go a long way for an entirely untapped portion of the community. Where would you rather play, one of the current (bad) super MMO's, one of the coming Hero MMO's, or this MMO where you can have a character that does what it can to represent your living situation?
As a side note, in terms of adding missing limbs, aside from robotic limbs, add invisible gloves. In SWTOR, they have several costume options for Cyborgs, which replace arms and legs with skeletal robotic limbs. Make a glove or boot option with variable length that cancels out the visual of the skin beneath. At the end, add a little convex bit that matches the going skin color so that, no matter how long you make it, it ends properly in a capped flesh tone. Adding this kind of effect would go even further in-game by allowing other creative kinds of underskin costume pieces, like a terminator endoskeleton, a metallo style internal power supply/emanation point.
Adding the animations for disabled heroes, alone, would bring in a LOT of people and garner a lot of attention. Even if they're added after launch as a free cash shop "animation pack". This would also give credence to adding other kinds of "Animation Packs" that would allow for alternate usages of the same power sets but for an actual amount of money, i.e. Martial arts powers being Kung Fu and launch but adding Krav Maga or Jeet Kune Do as the animation styles for the same powers.
Man, just wow!
This is the kind of thinking that makes the endeavor so epic! Just imagine the surreal nature of the game having such an appetite for merging reality with unreality.
I love these ideas! The more they can make happen the better!
I mean seriously, imagine the marketing campaigns alone for a character with a significant disability that is also the superhero! Talk about a rainmaker!
All this started from a few people wanting to replace a lost online community home! Outstanding! I hope every idea here comes to fruition!
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
I'm Terwyn, the one who Nate claims is effectively his boss.
I'm the Business Director for Missing Worlds Media (and the chair of the board for the company, but that's not as fun).
There are a number of reasons why I am humbled and pleased at the existence of this thread. First and foremost would be something that I believe I have openly mentioned in the past. I have been a regular member of my church's Accessibility ministry since before it was a formal part of its offerings. I have worked with children across a range of ages and disabilities well before I was myself formally diagnosed with ASD (somewhere between Asperger's and ASDNOS) in January of 2015. If you've read the updates that I've written previously, I've talked about Temple Grandin's work and the importance of accessible play for all children. The reason for this is quite simple - my mother is an early childhood educator with a specialization in special education, who has been working in the field for about 40 years. She has seen first hand the change in how disability is handled in both the classroom and the playground.
I'm quite proud that I've been able to take her experience and apply it here, especially because both she and I regularly volunteer at a Family Retreat in Ontario's cottage country for children and families of extraordinary needs. Many of its participants are very well aware of who I am and what we do here. It's quite possible that one of the members of this forum knows precisely of *which* Family Retreat that I am referring to, as I have invited many to check out what we've been doing. It is true that we've had a number of interesting challenges come up precisely as a result of the development team's diversity, but that sort of risk has so far always proven beneficial. Just wait until you see our in-game night sky, to my knowledge it's a perfect example of what I mean.
I have a peculiar background when it comes to how I came to be here - I have a Bachelor of Religious Education (which is functionally a BA in the History and Anthropology of Religion - all of it, not just specifically the one I adhere to), but I've always been painfully aware of certain challenges when it comes to verbal communication. I don't know if I should rightly call it a stutter or a stammer, or something else, but the general idea is that it is occasionally profoundly difficult to get words out at all, let alone in the correct order. To this day I'm utterly shocked by the idea that people think I'm eloquent. I'm not, it's just the result of brute forcing the words *out.* I went to Sheridan to study Marketing in their Business Administration Co-op program precisely because I wanted to actively work on improving my ability to communicate.
As I mentioned in another thread, we halted the FAQ because of all the things I needed to do in response to the tragedy of life late last year as I lost my grandparents, who had been married for 68 years. The day before my grandmother's memorial service, my twin brother had dinner with my grandfather at his assisted living facility, talking about each and every member of the family. For obvious reasons, what was said about the others is not for me to relate, but what he had to say about me is something that I must share. My cousins refuse to believe me, but my grandfather was, like me, on the spectrum. As he told my brother, he and my grandmother always had a sense of wonder about everything I did - they may not have understood how, or why I was doing things in the first place, but always they marveled at the intricacies of it all.
Perhaps the last conversation I had with both of them was about my hopes for what we're building here, as it relates to the promise for my people (by which I mean not only those with ASD or other neurological concerns, but those with *any* extraordinary need). We started out with the goal of preserving a community, and strangely enough, ended up building a city without barriers as much as possible. For those who are familiar with special education in Canada, there is a man of some importance named Jean Vanier, whom had plenty to say on the topic. The quote of his which I have been using as a guiding principle for all I do here is very simple, and yet extraordinarily profound:
[b]It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.[/b]
It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.
[color=#ff0000]Business Director[/color]
I love my bosses. <3
Don't think I haven't forgotten you agreed almost three years ago to help me with the children's book I've been working on, Tiger. :)
It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.
[color=#ff0000]Business Director[/color]
As a person with near lifelong hearing impairment, I always recommend Singing as 'speech therapy'.
Not suggesting that it's a new notion.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Thanks for the suggestion, Fireheart.
It very much isn't a new notion, as few things can build a friendship faster than spending six hours on the road together doing nothing but singing along to the Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack, Frank Sinatra, and Disney songs. :)
It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.
[color=#ff0000]Business Director[/color]
Says the one who works with me on translating in French some CoT terms xD You ARE eloquent ^^ Don't doubt !
And i can understand Tiger loves his boss since, on each email i received, there was some goodwill or kindness ^^
[hr]
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[color=red]PR - Europe[/color]
I only have issues with English, other languages have been a joy to work with - I can read Sumerian cuneiform, Egyptian Hieroglyphics, and others. It's just getting the *right* words out in my own language that is a problem. I come across as archaic because of the translation process I have to use.
It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.
[color=#ff0000]Business Director[/color]
Hmm, that might explain me, too!
I seem to be an English to English translator because practically nobody speaks English like it's written and everyone seems to have their own dialect. I think it's 'inherited' from one's childhood environment and life experiences. It's probably why every community has their own 'language'. So I did well working for a newspaper publisher because I could 'translate' CMYK to RGB.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I have the same problem. I call it a verbal lockup than a stutter or stammer; my brain works faster along a conversation than my mouth can work, so I try saying something further down the line while I'm already saying something, and like a traffic jam my voice locks up. I usually just tell people I'm having trouble with words (which almost always gets a smile out of them) and take a moment to reorganize my brain so that it's no longer rushing.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
Yes sir, I'm looking forward to it.
Since you are an artist, if you have a concept drawing of your hero, feel free to message it to me or post it here, and I'll put you in the background, or one of the helpful heroes in the Anthem comics. (It all depends on the legal IP stuff.)
I'll bet you've information vegetable, animal, and mineral.
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
Yes, but I have never at any time been the member of any Navy.
It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.
[color=#ff0000]Business Director[/color]
What never?
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
This is not to say that I do not have a connection - my great great grandfather was a shipwright in Nova Scotia who had a fairly significant role in the construction of the first home-built ships of the Canadian Navy (given that she is only now entering her second century, being founded in 1910).
It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.
[color=#ff0000]Business Director[/color]
He might still be a Modern Major General.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Or a Monarch of the Sea
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
I'd rather have dominion over the fifteen nearest stars and all their orbiting bodies, thank you.
It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.
[color=#ff0000]Business Director[/color]
Stars or star systems? Darn binaries and trinaries always throw off the count.
Either way, I'll allow 14 of the 15. I've already called dibs on the Epsilon Eridani.
... and watch out for Barnard's star. The natives aren't the type of folk you probably want your name associated with. I'd scrap it out for parts or "lose" it in a Saabac game at your earliest convenience.
You guys can have Proxima Centauri as well. Apparently it's too busy [url=https://www.space.com/40277-proxima-centauri-superflare-habitable-planet.html]cooking poor Proxima b[/url] to make it worthwhile...
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I think we just found out why [i]some nearby worlds are MISSING ...[/i]
Um ... hail beard?
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]