This is not a thread to try and get the devs to do this, that, or the other. It's strictly out of curiosity what everyone thinks CoT's marketing strategy should be.
Personally, I think it should be a polished gameplay video on Youtube with Youtube marketing. My idea of a polished video would be about 10 minutes long, have 1-3 minutes of the character creator creating a character, probably sped up and in the nice UI not the current test UI, and then some running around in-game. So this isn't something they could make right now, but surely a few months before launch. I think it would be beneficial for them to pick one small section of the game map to complete first, but like as close to 100% complete as possible, to shoot the video in. I'm talking about NPC's, mobs, weather, ALL the filler stuff like bushes, trash cans, debris, posters, trees, cars driving by, etc etc etc. Perhaps that could be last and in between this and the first few minutes of the character creator could be a few minutes of the first intro bank robbery tutorial, but, again, fully polished; so lots of NPC's in various actions (standing, walking, talking, etc), things happening, music...basically everything you'd expect in a finished game. And obviously combat but with standard visual effects. I think the target market would also like to see a nice, clean UI of the action bars, mini map, health bars...all that good stuff as well.
What I don't think it should include is minutes of close-up chargen video of individual sliders that are more of a fine-touch, like eye position or ear height. We've seen how many sliders there are so the chargen part of the video, as I said, should be sped up and only show big changing parts like applying a mask, cape, changing size or muscle mass, and adding color. I also don't think the video should include any visuals of non-polished work. I know that sounds like a no-brainer, but I've seen marketing vids with alpha footage, and when compared to footage at release, it's mediocre at best.
How do you think they should market?
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
If the game is good I think the marketing may take care of itself. Being a successfully kickstarted MMO (that actually releases) would be a feat worthy of some notoriety, from there reviewers, let's players, and other various games media will probably provide more of a push.
Other than that getting a YouTube ad that does/says/shows something interesting in the first 5-10 seconds might work. I personally have sat through some ads that made me go "Ok, what's this now?" even if said ad is a good few minutes long.
Taking out ad space in various related websites (comic sites, etc) would likely help reach the audience who'd most likely play, as long as the ad looks like it's for a proper product (unlike those "The game your girlfriend doesn't want you to play!" ads).
Steering way clear of the words "early access" would likely help also as those words don't instill much faith any more.
That's about all I can think of, though I did just wake up.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Youtube and other Social Media would be our best chance to get the news out.
Some gameplay from game critics might help. Like AngryJoe for example.
Just like the Kickstarter our best chance is word of mouth. Those of us who wait hoping that City of Titans will have that magic spark the other games we tried was missing. I know for me I will be doing my part as much as I can.
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
When Time come to release the game, we have, as members/supporters of CoT, to promote everywhere we can this MMO Game.
And of course, Youtube and other Social Media will be good places to do it.
Whats a good recording software I could get? I was wanting to post some youtubes once the NDA was over
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
I really think the best way to go is to get the thing running, release it to the faithful, ensure that it's operating well, get some articles and critiques written by appropriate media, and only Then worry about 'advertising'. Not precisely a 'stealth launch', but no need for a circus.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Check out 'Action!' on steam, I've been toying around with a free trial and seems great so far.
Think about what the world in general has had access to in terms of MMOs in the last 20 years.
What are they used to seeing (in terms of game play and how a game studio responds to issues that crop up)?
Realize that MWM needs to market to the wider outside world, not us forum goers or KS backers. People will not have this forum as a frame of reference.
Getting people in the door is the major hurdle (i.e. getting past the myriad of choices in the Character Generator). The marketing must preface how you bring your concept to life (powers, aesthetics, a basic understanding of how your character might evolve). Also, players are familiar with binary character choices ala "I am a Jedi or I am a Sith". You must at least touch on the subject of how you fight for one side or another.
Steps I believe MWM needs to take for marketing:
1.) Revamp this site. The current setup is geared towards letting the public know about the latest happenings. It needs to be wholly focused on placing the game on display and providing information about available options.
2A.) Write up everything you would need to know about Archetypes, powersets, aesthetics, how a character can evolve, and the game world history. What is the reason for players to exist in this world?
2B.) Provide examples of how a player can realize a few power concepts (burning fire, soul leeching, rocket punches, etc), but make sure that it is properly framed. By that I mean describe a polished idea for a power (the effects & what it looks like), then proceed to describe where to start and walk them through how to make it happen.
3.) Have some information about the technical details of the game world. Things like how big the playable world is at launch and what it can expand to in the future. Maybe how the detailed landscape was generated. Touch on the fact that the Archetypes and Specializations will expand after launch.
4.) Create multiple walkthrough videos of how a character concept gets realized through the Character Generator. A couple for each Archetype/Specialization to compare & contrast approaches and provide a roadmap for the public to understand the possibilities. This would also involve talking about the concept up front so they see how you craft things (i.e. it isn't just you checking off a list a features).
5.) Create a few multiplayer videos to demo what it is like to play on a Team (tackling missions or an instance). Show action from multiple character viewpoints, not just one. This will take some effort to edit if you want it to look good.
6.) Create your standard five minute game marketing overview video with all the special effects, hitting the high points to draw people in with their hopes and dreams. Then they can goto the website mentioned above and devour all of the above information so they can expand on their vision and then proceed to want to get their hands on the game.
7.) Then every few weeks release another video showcasing something interesting. Like the goofy santa ragdoll physics. Or an expanded character concept from #4 above to show an evolution (new specialization, tertiary skills, alternate costumes). Or interesting game play (how CC works, solving a problem via different approaches, or just some awesome eye candy). Give the public something to think/talk about. Make them understand that it is a big world with a lot of possibilities.
8.) Decide if you are going to drive the narrative or let enthusiastic players be your advocates. MWM is supposed to be comprised of passionate super hero/villain gamers who loved CoX. Showcase your passion for gameplay in some manner. Do you want to broadcast some of your gameplay sessions (not some scripted scene, just you actually playing)? And by gameplay I mean you and a bunch of your friends actually playing (bantering, etc), not just a weekly roundup of whichever employee you can grab to fill out a Team.
Side Note: Absolutely, do not give any early access codes to professional Twitch streamers. Their purpose in life is to make money, not show off your game in the best light possible. They do not have your best interests in mind. If they don't "get it" or have problems accomplishing something (either due to limitations in the game or the person's brain), your game will be characterized as bad for hundreds or thousands of viewers. Then they'll fall back to whatever core game they're known for and your product will be forgotten.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
Hmm, character creation walkthroughs... It might be cool if some of us old hands wrote up, or recorded how We recreated our favorite characters. So, not flashy demonstrations, but ones filled with love and respect. Characters with well-developed backgrounds and unique names.
Alternately, MWM Devs might walk through building some of the 'iconic' characters.
Be Well!
Fireheart
We, as a community, need to help promote City of Tabbies WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than City of Hairballs, which apparently had very little promotion from NC ... (*hacks a brobdingnagian hairball*) ... Soft itself!
[center][color=purple][size=16][b][I][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78N2SP6JFaI]Just a cat from another star![/url][/I][/b][/size][/color][/center]
If it were me, I'd ask Samuraiko to do one of her music videos. Maybe using the song Heroes (We could be) by Alesso and Tove Lo.
I had the idea of a Podcast to promote City of Titans.
There could be a few different ways to do that. One a comedy where we have in character podcasters talk about Titan city in that reality. Or out of character podcasters talking about events, missions, costumes. The OOC one could even have DEV interviews.
I won't do it myself wish I would but having been deaf for the early 7 years of my life I still have trouble pronouncing sounds I don't hear correctly. Basically, I have that deaf accent and hate it.
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
This is actually a very good idea, along with the other suggestions of social media. I always enjoyed Michelle's work during the CoH/V years and even managed to get into one of her videos.
This sums up my feelings pretty well. I don't think we need a huge crowd of people at the start; we need a medium sized group of players who are in it for the long term. The gaming road is littered with the corpses of MMOs that had huge openings and then shrivelled up and blew away in a few months. I think if the game is as good as I hope, word of mouth will be our strongest tool.
Spurn all ye kindle.
The best method for any game depends on how polished of a product we see taking shape, and when. If we are getting close to launch and there are still a lot of rough edges, they should rely more on word-of-mouth among fans willing to stick with the game despite those early flaws. I'd hold off any serious ($$$ and media-focused) MWM marketing effort until there is something impressive and working reliably.
I think we were hoping the character generator could be that first "something", but now I'm uncertain due to some comments by Doctor Tyche regarding how legal it is to release it early and in a standalone mode. Also, the ongoing difficulties with getting and keeping the character generator in a functioning and streamable state are pointing to disconnects in the development process that need to get resolved before any marketing occurs. Fireheart's suggested approach definitely fits what we know today.
I mostly agree with Planet10's recommendations for the 'how' to market. Making sure the website is geared up to sell it by smoothly introducing new players to the game's main features is one of the most cost-effective ways of getting buyers. Once the news of the game filters out into the media, that website will be the only 24x7 ad that is under MWM's control. Please ask us forumites / beta testers to help with the website design, since we can easily give feedback on what features to showcase to best draw our friends & others in to the game.
I do think CoT should have a gameplay video set to music, but I don't think it should use an existing song.
Every major game company buys the song of the week and posts it on their videos. I know I heard "I'm only human" on about twenty different trailers for different games, movies, and shows. It gets old and dull and screams "there's nothing here you haven't seen before." Either that, or they just use instrumental music.
If we want CoT to stand out, I'd suggest trying to get an original song, with lyrics, made by one of the small-time self-promoted youtube makers. There's at least a dozen channels of people who make original fan music for video games, and some of them have made written and performed music for games on commission. I remember hearing the end credit song to Wasteland 2 and being blown away only to find out it was made by a small-time youtube game song maker (miracleofsound). Here it is, if you haven't heard it:
[youtube=100x100]HloF7F4dPNo[/youtube]
Note how the instruments chosen and tone of voice sound like someone from that setting made the song. Also note how the song makes multiple specific continuity references without being heavy-handed about it. Every time this guy makes a song, it sounds completely different and fits the theme/mood of the setting, and he's just one of many on bandcamp or youtube who do this "original game fan music" thing. Hiring one of these people is the only way to get a song that is specifically CoT in both lyrics and tone.
That said, I have no idea what these people charge. I just know it probably costs less to get an original song from one of them than to license an oversaturated pop song that makes the game seem unoriginal.
Why not use Helwreckage's music, since he's already making music for the game?
Be Well!
Fireheart
I like a public domain 50's rock n' roll song for the music video.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Steam
This isn't Super Mario or Sonic the Hedgehog. Those games do not have to advertise. Some gamer will leak Sonic footage, millions of views later, Sonic 5 is announced, not by SEGA, but the fans. People outside of us are not looking for CoT, so why not make money until they find it?
But, An Ark route would be solid imo. Eventually, it will catch Steam, and ppl outside of Steam will pick up on it. If they did go this route
Steam is hardcore gamer territory, many know what CoX was. This is a great audience to cater to. CO is currently highly rated by the community. Superheroes games are well received there. Marvel was highly reviewed for years, until the "Biggest Update"
http://store.steampowered.com/app/9880/Champions_Online/
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
An Ark route? Like, releasing paid expansions while the base game is still in early access and riddled with bugs?
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I'm not saying this isn't a good idea, but one thing to keep in mind is any licensing cost on their platform. Another is the toxicity of the trolls on Steam as well. I've seen pages of truly toxic reviews on genuinely good games just because of one minor game feature people didn't like.
IMHO social media and a hard push with as many different gaming podcasts/streamers would be the way to go.
Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die.
Protect the pack kid, no matter how much it hurts. If everyone else in the pack is safe, you can carry on or die knowing you've done your duty. - Fanfiction
This, unfortunately, is very true. It seems like the reviews on Steam tend to fall on the extremes, really great to really horrible. I've heard tales of entire campaigns to destroy a game's rating based on a very small number of dissatisfied players. And it's not like I don't like Steam, I truly do, but as mentioned previously, it has it's perils and pitfalls.
Steam feels like a phase 2 marketing push, to me. I see its value for pulling in large numbers and a sort of automatic marketing campaign; however, it comes with several types of business, development, and communication hazards that MWM has not yet proven they have the skills to handle. Even among us, arguably the most devoted and forgiving fans, there's been some criticism leveled whenever a perceived promise is made and then altered, or they try to show something without an adequate amount of in-house testing first. If MWM can successfully launch CoT to a smaller audience, dealing with the pitfalls skillfully throughout, then I think they will have gained the experience to deal well with a Steam launch and reviews - supported by CoT's status as an already-existing game with happy, paying subscribers and fulfilled dev promises.
I'd be surprised if there were any songs from after WWII that weren't still under copyright.
(goes to wiki the subject)
OK, so if the song was released before 1964, and copyright owner didn't get the copyright renewed during the 28th year since release, it would be public domain now.
So, which song did you have in mind, Cyke?
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Actually, SoH is already doing this, and CoT to a lesser degree. FB, Youtube, etc are all large platforms, but only ppl like you and I looking for SoH or CoT. It is not enough. Imagine if Sonic, Tekken, SC6, or some other mascot/franchise had game-play footage on FB or YouTube, ppl would flock to it because it his name sells.
Steam would grab players from one of the largest platforms, as-well as their money. These successors do not have the luxury of an IP selling the title. Social media will only cater to ppl whom follow the game. Those who don't, will not search for it on FB, nor will it show up in their recommended Youtube videos.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
Quality animated shorts (both serious and comedic) as well as dev interviews explaining features and giving general information.
This is in addition to a limited run of traditional targeted advertising.
As I understand it, MWM is not going to release on steam upon release for various reasons(needs verification) but I hope they intend to do so as soon as it is viable.
This is true. That's why Steam would be a good Phase 2 in MWM's marketing campaign, as was mentioned earlier.
Social media would only be half the 1st phase media campaign. Never underestimate the power of streamers and podcasters. Just one of the gaming podcasts I listen to weekly has well over 20k downloads per week. Just hitting up 5 such programs is a potential 100k customers. Then there are sites like Kotaku and MMOBomb that would be further places to court. There is also a gaming and esports show on terrestrial radio. The ONLY show to date of it's kind. They alone are broadcasting in 50 different markets last time I counted.
There are literally a plethora of potential media outlets to hit up. Steam shouldn't be the one stop shop for MWM's marketing purposes.
Heroes get remembered, but Legends never die.
Protect the pack kid, no matter how much it hurts. If everyone else in the pack is safe, you can carry on or die knowing you've done your duty. - Fanfiction
You'll know it when you see it, that's about all I'm allowed to say at this point. How we managed it, I don't rightly know, and I expect we'll promote the notion that some sort of conspiracy was involved, but I think you'll all be rightly surprised.
It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.
[color=#ff0000]Business Director[/color]
I suspect a Nemesis Plot...
Elon Musk personally visits each house, dressed as Santa Claus and arriving via sewer pipes connected to his underground Hyperloop system, to offer to install the game client from a USB stick shaped like a bust of Abraham Lincoln?
Retail price 39.99 USD.
It does fit everything we know at this point. Not sure how many cycles through English<-->Japanese Google Translate are required, but if Lord Nemesis doesn't comes up within ten, I'll eat my hat.
[size=3]*Hat is actually a delicious cake.[/size]
I am pleased at the confirmation that you have an initial marketing plan, and that it is going well.
Everybody underestimates the power of the Secret Masters of Fandom...
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
That sounds quite intriguing!
Spurn all ye kindle.
I would settle for a reveal that reassures us that MWM can actually release a stable & functioning product by the end of the year (since there has been no push back yet) and have the support system in place to keep it running beyond just six months.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
While agree with this entirely, I'm afraid I can't imagine how any form of reveal would be able to make that kind of assurance; other than maybe advertising a partnership with a well known publisher I suppose; like NCSoft.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I'm of the opinion that the answer to this question kind of depends on the medium you're addressing.
One of the things I've been agitating for MWM to do for the past YEAR is to release a soundtrack of music made by Hellwreckage that's going to be a part of City of Titans. Basically a counterpart to [url=https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Music][b]THIS PAGE[/b][/url] from which so many memories can be mined and replayed to remember the glory years.
As I keep arguing ... there's word of mouth, but there's also Word Of Music.
The music used for a game is one of the defining things about it that you'll REMEMBER. Everyone who's played WoW, or TERA, or Star Trek Online, or Diablo (I, II or III), or Tabula Rasa, [url=https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//f/fc/H_music1_loop.ogg][b]City of Heroes[/b][/url], or any number of other countless online games with background music will instantly recognize and remember the music associated with that game.
So that's one thing. A City of Titans soundtrack "album" released in digital form that is [i]meant to be downloaded[/i] and have people playing it on their iTunes players or mp3 players or whatever, "preparing" them for the day when they'll be greeted by the sound of that music when it's time to log into the game.
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And then there's the youtube (video) format.
Now one thing that I really think ought to be done here is to leverage the above Hellwreckage soundtrack(s) to put musical backing to City of Titans video releases, which has already been done on occasion, but then use the youtube video format to provide In The Game views of things that we won't be able to "see" out here on a website. Things like ... what do the neighborhoods LOOK LIKE when you're running around in them at street level? That's something you're never going to get from a Zone Map. A top down view "map" of an area is never going to give you that sense of what it's like to "walk the streets" in that place. Running THROUGH Atlas Park looked nothing like watching your icon move on the mini-map of Atlas Park, for example.
So doing things like 2-4 minute videos showing a character running through the neighborhoods at street level, backed by Hellwreckage music, showing us the CHARACTER of the WORLD we're going to be inhabiting, so that we can get excited about that. It would almost be "touristy" in its practical effect, but it would also begin the process of getting us all to recognize the unique sights and geography and architecture used in different parts of the City of Titans.
You can start "small and basic" where you just have a character running through the streets in a very simply "from here to there" sort of way where you use camera control to look around you as you go. The world doesn't even need to be populated with NPCs or anything. This would just be an example of the World Building that is going on.
Then you do another video which runs more or less from the same starting point to the same endpoint, but which takes the "back alleys" and other possibly "less traveled" route to reach the same destination. Just this and the first video put together gives you a broader sense of the world.
Then you do more videos, which starts showing off how you can go from the same starting point to the same ending point using [b][i]Different Travel Powers[/i][/b].
Superspeed.
Super Jumping.
Flight.
Teleport.
Parkour.
Grappling Hook.
Wall Climbing.
And then you move on to a new neighborhood ... with a new start and end point ... and you take the road show of the city [i]to other parts of the city[/i].
Here's what Alexandria looks like.
Here's what NRD looks like.
Here's what Old Bradford looks like.
Here's what Downtown looks like.
Each video wouldn't take THAT long to create (an hour or two?) and MWM could push them out onto youtube "every so often" to encourage people to subscribe to the youtube channel to see new videos of what the world we're all going to be living will look like, from a super's eye view. You set the whole thing up to be a SERIES of video releases that can be spaced out over time, so it isn't something that needs to be done in one huge massive chunk and take a half hour to watch at a time.
But most importantly, every single video will wind up [b][i]Leaving Them Wanting More[/i][/b] ... as that wascally ol' P T Barnum once said. You build interest [i]by building interest[/i] in what you're doing, and what you can show (off).
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And that's just TWO ideas where it wouldn't be that heavy of a lift to start generating some tangible buzz around City of Titans.
Word of mouth.
Word of music.
Word of world.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Hssss! Boooo! Bad Huckleberry, BAD! Mention not the great backstabbing company, NCSOFT.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
While I'm not necessarily against the basic idea of potentially "advertising a partnership with a well known publisher" I would think that doing such a thing with NCSoft would literally be the [b]last publisher on the planet[/b] that MWM would want to get involved with in such a way.
Considering that NCSoft is uniquely positioned as the most likely corporate entity on Earth that would have a stake at wanting to (and being most likely successful with) suing MWM out of existence for what they are attempting to with CoT the very idea that MWM would seek a "working relationship" with NCSoft is mindboggling. What you're suggesting here is akin to a startup company going out and attempting to make a workable clone of the MS Windows XP OS and then having that startup actively solicit Microsoft to help them market that clone without paying anything for the rights to do that.
Did you really mean to specifically use NCSoft as an example of your idea for this? Like I said I would've named literally [b]any other[/b] software publisher on Earth -before- NCsoft for this.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
So as an older fan, I'm not as familiar with youtube channels and podcasts and the like. (I'm not discounting them, just my ability to assess them.) I favor ads and interviews in PC gaming magazines and sites. This is because folks reading it are more likely to have both the interest and the ability to play the game. Ability, meaning a system that can run the game, is a key part of the target market. For contrast some may recall that CoH was advertised in Marvel comics. I had a chance at a herocon to hear the head of advertising remark on the disappointing results from that. I told him it wasn't surprising as most of comic customers were still kids who didn't have the system needed or any chance to get one.
Advertising is a curious blend of art and science and it isn't always intuitive. But among the constants is this: We want to reach the most/all people with an interest and ability for the product.
I knew someone with no sense of humor would end up commenting on it. I just never expected that someone would be you, Lothic, since you usually exhibit better sarcasm detection. But I'm most surprised that it took almost a week for anyone to react. Well done, Cyclops.
But yes, I was serious that finding a reputable publisher would be a good indication of increases product assurance.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I am hesitant at introducing a publisher....I don't like another controlling influence upon a great game. I would rather list independently with Steam, they have a great modding community already. Since the Devs said we will allow for mods, I think Steam is the best choice.
(edit to add: I have NO freakin clue about how games are made, so take my advice with a grain of salt.)
--and thanks for not being serious.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Nah, NCsoft isn't the absolute worst.
That'd be Funcom. NcSoft is the second worst.
Let me tell you a story.
Funcom did the lifetime subscriber ($200) thing on The Secret Worlds, and that meant they weren't getting money from people getting free access to new expansions and monthly stipends. So, in order to "solve" this problem, they added the word "Legends" to the title to make it a "new game" (all the same assets, sounds, dialogue, graphics, lairs, etc). Because it was a "new game" they didn't have to honor lifetime anymore. They quietly offered a transfer during a two month window for legal reasons, but if you missed that window, you'd have to pay for the things (expansions, game store currency) that you had already paid for again.
They then proceeded to automatically update everyone's The Secret World to The Secret World Legends in the patcher (need more proof it's the same game?). For legal reasons, they keep "the Secret World" running on an old server, populated by no one. Technically, lifers could still play there, so long as they're fine with never doing 90% of the content because there's not enough bodies to fill a group.
Now THAT is WAY shadier than anything NCsoft has done... or even EA for that matter.
Bingo. That is why I tend to shy away from a publisher. The devs have done a great job...they should retain full control.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
So, let me get this straight: you bought a lifetime sub to one game and now have a lifetime sub for a completely different game? What [i]exactly[/i] is the problem?
The problem is the new game is the same game but with "2000" written on the side as a flimsy excuse for abandoning the old game so that they could make the people who paid for lifetime subs pay again. Those who paid for lifetime subs got shafted because they got left on old servers.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
+1
Spurn all ye kindle.
You give them way too much credit. The "new game" (which is exactly the same as the old game but with one word added to the title) does not honor the lifetime sub. So, those who bought it now would have to pay again for everything they already paid for.
Let's say I open a club called Club Hero. You buy a lifetime pass. I then change the name of the club to Club Hero Plus, but change absolutely nothing about the club. It's the same club, same location, same interior, same DJ, same everything. You show up with your lifetime pass. I say, "Sorry, but this says it's for Club Hero. This isn't Club Hero. This is Club Hero Plus. You'll have to buy another pass."
If you think that's fine and fair business, then I have some lovely ocean front property in Colorado to sell you.
I asked my friend who had a Grandmaster Lifetime sub from TSW and he said gets all the sub perks in SWL now and has since the launch. And I never agreed that it was fine and fair. I just think that if you're going to villify a company, all the facts should be straight.
Your friend probably made the transfer in that two month window. Players who come and go didn't.
Now, I ask you, why have a window at all unless you're trying to cheat people?
Also, to get the "old game" you just download a file and put it in your directory and it logs into that server instead (all the same assets) so yes, it is the same game.
Oh, and there's no way for new players to get access to the old game. They stopped giving out or selling keys in order to force people into the new game.
Believe me, I have my facts 100% straight on this one. Funcom knew exactly what they were doing and did it deliberately to screw over players, which is why I always tell people not to trust their shadier-than-EA-and-NCsoft selves. I never buy their products anymore and always warn other people away from them. Fact: I had a lifetime. Fact: I don't anymore. Care to debate the facts further? You haven't posted anything in any of your replies that I didn't already say in my first post on the subject. I used to buy Funcom products. I don't anymore. In fact, I warn people away from them. I'd say I've personally probably cost them about fifty customers. I'll be happy when that gets to about a thousand.
The moral of the story is: MWM should stay away from third party influence or else they could get roped into a scheme like this and tarnish their image and lose their fanbase.
MWM should definitely Not market City of Titans like Daikatana. *grin*
Be Well!
Fireheart
Well for what it's worth even during the times I don't agree with you on a specific subject you're usually a fairly straight-shooter and don't say outright -stupid- things like this. Basically you're not usually one for sarcasm so "detecting" if from you was not in my usual "realm of expectation" from you. I suppose I'll have to expect that you [b]actually[/b] have a sense of humor from now on. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I would also add changing the camera perspective on some of the videos. Superspeed at ground level in first person is potentially immersive. A hybrid camera on Grappling Hook or Wall Climbing showing the character looking around for the next hold or hook shot then DFAing (Death From Above) a target. And other approaches in this vein to show that the game can be so much more fun depending on how you approach things. For the most part, gamers are too conditioned to play in the 3/4 over the shoulder view and miss out on other perspectives. The variety of travel powers (and combat powers) can have a much bigger impact depending on how you experience it.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
OMG. I know. I do usually try to avoid sarcasm because in this format it can be misconstrued so easily. And there are so many sensitive people that before you know it, you're in a heated debate about the smallest things because they think you insulted them or they think you're really that stupid.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Well, the transfer window was for [i]vanity items only[/i], so it's not like anyone lost playable mission content. Why have a window? Resources, I presume. From what I gathered on reddit at the time, it was a semi-manual process to push the transfer requests over, which was part of the big stink, in addition to all the other problems at the time. There's no longer development or support for the old game, which wasn't even bringing in new players and had been bleeding players for years, which was part of the game sustainment problem, and therefore the relaunch with updated weapon mechanics and combat system (and yes, missing the higher end dungeons and Kaidan content and a bunch of zone side-quests due to updated leveling efficiency at relaunch). Why even remotely encourage new players to play something that doesn't have any more new content by allowing them to access the old game? That just seems clearly pointless.
Am I saying that I approve of Funcom's marketing/business bungling of TSW/SWL? Absolutely not. They've made some raw decisions that have clearly influenced your opinion of them, which is valid, but it is in my opinion that they're not even in the same sport, let alone the same ballpark, as to what NCSoft did to the CoH/V playerbase. They shut down our game, which is why we're even talking on [i]these forums[/i] to begin with. At least the old players [i]can[/i] access the old TSW game if they wished to do so. The only reason anyone can even access a minimized version of CoH/V through Paragon Chat is through the efforts of the Titan Network, not from NCSoft.
Additionally, I also agree that MWM shouldn't seek third parties if at all possible, not unless there's a clear advantage to MWM doing so. However, I am not even remotely involved in business management, so unless someone spelled out the perils and pitfalls, I'm only two articles deep into a half-hearted Google search into why it might be good/bad.
/em eyeroll
Tell me about it ...
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I believe they said they're going to get a publisher, but they want to make sure they complete the game itself first so they'll have a better position to avoid the problems that plague the industry. They wouldn't be reliant on them to develop the game, so they could choose which publisher is best. That's what I think, anyways.
It's hard to find the right one. Cryptic, for example, sells games off the moment something new and shiny comes along (which is how NCsoft got involved in this mess). However, Cryptic meets its obligations when it retains the rights to a game. When they updated game mechanics of CO (much more than TSW did) they kept lifetime status automatically. There was no duplicate account created or button that had to be pressed in a limited time window. They just kept the status and kept free in-game-currency coming for years to those who had it even if the players were on hiatus and weren't even aware of the transition.
We can't use Cryptic, though. Not because they made the dreaded "sell-to-ncsoft" mistake, and not because they have CO, either. They have multiple fantasy RPG's running right now, so multiple super-hero would not be out of the question. No, we can't use Cryptic because they've decided to brand themselves as the free-to-play company, which doesn't fit MWM's business model (and I do think MWM has the right business model). So their meddling wouldn't amount to screwing over players, but it would likely force all sorts of annoying stuff in the game, like lockboxes, so we can scratch Cryptic off the list.
Just going down the list of biggest publishers...
Activision: only do their own games.
EA: "what is this, an INDIE game, and with no lockboxes? ewwww..."
Giant Interactive: operates the games themselves.
NCSOFT: why is this 4 on the list?
Nexon: F2P
Aeria: F2P
Ankama: Seem to do mostly android/mobile stuff. I could be wrong. Their site doesn't have an English option.
CCP: make/run own games only
Changyou: Honestly, most of their games seem to be localized in China only, so I have no clue.
CipSoft: make/run own games only
Cryptic: F2P
egames: Why is this listed as an MMO company?
Webzen: F2P
Jagex: F2P
Joymax: F2P
NetEase: Produced their own but also hosts games from other publishers (so far only Blizzard, though. Huh, so Blizzard doesn't actually do WoW on its own. Weird.)
OGplanet: F2P
Perfect World: publishes through Cryptic
Shanda: game section of their website is gone?
Softnyx: F2P
Daybreak (formerly Sony Online): They just finished a buyout and leadership transition, so it's too early to call it. They do, however, promote games that are not their own (in addition to their own) and don't seem to care what pay model is used. Too early to see if they're trustworthy or not. Current people in charge only been there about a year.
Tencent: China only
Turbine: Sold it's MMO properties to Daybreak, I think
No great winners there. That's only the "top 24". There are smaller publishers out there, I'm sure, who are far hungrier for content, and who you could actually talk to, but I'll let someone else dig into those. I've done my random curiosity search for the day.
Could always go for Devolver... They know what it's like to please a fanbase almost 2 decades old.
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
I'm a 44 year old husband and father of three girls. I have been waiting for this game to launch for many years. As for advertising here's my two cents.
I have watched quit a few youtube videos about games and I believe you should keep it simple(as you can with something this grand), no more than 5 or 6 minutes long(I personally start to loose interest if a video is too long). Don't put all of your eggs in one basket, have alot of basket ready for slow release showcasing a grand story line, then character creation, then gameplay(like thethe bank robbery), then some higher level content to entice players to reach for the stars so to speak. I suggest doing several archtype creation sets to give potential players the idea that there's a character for everyone to create and play.
It's probably already been said but that was my two cents.
thanks
Mike
Grievous Summoner of COV
Hey, this actually reminded me of something fairly interesting. The team that does Extra Credits sometimes takes sponsorship deals to do particular kinds of videos - a good example is the Total War team paying them to do a video on the Roman Empire. They have a massive amount of viewership (with 1.3 million subscribers, which is more than quite a few big-name youtubers) and getting them to do a video on a topic related to Superheroes and City of Titans may be a pretty good way to get the word out and provide some neat informative angles about superheroes as a whole.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
[list]
[*]Perfect World Entertainment is the owner and publisher of Cryptic Studios. And they've never re-launched or re-branded CO, they've only turned over the skeleton crew repeatedly since 2012.
[*]Any MMO under Activision Blizzard would fall under the Blizzard half, and they've never shown any interest in mergers or acquisitions. (Unless you believe the rumor that NCSoft refused to return their calls when the City of Heroes IP was for sale. Which presumes that the sale wasn't a sham in the first place, of course.)
[*]CCP is very not-invented-here, too, and they've been cutting back lately to concentrate on Eve's core game.
[*]A lot of western MMOs have separate publishing deals in China. It gives the western studios an entry into a large market, while the Chinese publisher provides a buffer between them and the Chinese government.
[*]Daybreak's own studios are at perpetual risk. Columbus Nova, the private equity firm who bought SOE from Sony, is notorious for stripping and flipping their acquisitions, pocketing the proceeds while leaving husks in their wake. They've already culled a bunch of titles, and I'm kind of amazed that Planetside 2 is still outrunning the reaper.
[*]Turbine is complicated. They're still operating, and they still own the rights to Asheron's Call, but they've pivoted to mobile games. DDO and LOTRO were spun off into Standing Stone Games, an independent studio with a publishing deal with Daybreak.
[/list]
Twitter: @SisterSilicon
Cry me a river about acting the only innocent victim here... that latest tiff between you and Brainbot about body morphing was downright pathetic.
And you're one to talk here as well - heated debates about the smallest things because they think you insulted them or they think you're really that stupid take more than one person to happen...
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/WHvAeo1.gif[/img]
wow.... where did this ascerbic post come from?! That was really nasty and uncalled for, Lothic.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Eh, maybe I just don't like it when a couple of pots try to call other kettles black. There's plenty of collective blame for pretty much [b]every[/b] regular poster on this forum... myself obviously included.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/cMfkFGP.gif[/img]
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
In the discussion of publishers, I recommend thinking about the reasons we had for naming the company what we did. It should prove enlightening.
It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.
[color=#ff0000]Business Director[/color]
It's quite simple to market games today. A Steam page isn't far and away a tough thing to obtain. Most large gaming websites *reach out for information* or at least will post news stories submitted to their team by developers, publishers and PR companies. Handling social media properly could be done by a 14 year old girl. They just need to update the sites with valid media and any promotions or new upcoming features. I've personally seen 1 man development studios do this.
Working on a mostly playable demo to showcase at shows (Such as PAX East starting today) would be a great way to get the game into the hands of gamers and media outlets, and it would essentially extend exposure to many outlets in a matter of days, without any real follow up needed.
Pretty much, just market it normally, but ADVERTISE it so that people can get behind development.
Ah yes ... one of the three known methods of successful mass communication.
Telephone.
Television.
Tell A Girl.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I think we should give well known let's players versions of the game and character creator
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
I am not a 14 yo girl and i have difficulties to make City of titans known in France ^^ Maybe i should ask some help from my friend's teenagers xD
[hr]
Suivez l'avancement du jeu City of Titans en Français sur https://titanscity.com
http://forum.titanscity.com | www.facebook.com/titanscity | http://twitter.com/TitansCity
[color=red]PR - Europe[/color]
You all made this oddly sexist. I'm not sure why.
Last week I saw Cohh Carnage twitching a run through of a preview version (late late beta?) of the new Battletech game. He was impressed with the customization. My thought was, wait'll you get a load of CoT.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Steam is a difficult platform these days. With the deluge of crap being put on it daily trying to get seen amongst the mire will be difficult.
I'm not saying not to put it on Steam, just don't rely on it being on Steam to be anywhere near enough advertisement.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Post more duck face selfies and be CoT narcissistic.
It's a sense of having pride in the game and wanting to show it off. I don't know how many of you have teenage female family members, but the stereotypical premise of being a movie star in ones own life transitions to game development quite well actually.
If you portray a sense of excitement that reflects back from the community in terms of hype. While overhyping and under delivering is looked on as a detriment, there's two schools of thought...
One that there is no such thing as bad publicity, and even if some people admonish the games accomplishments, the exposure of hyping your upcoming game and gaining a growing following will eventually aid in subscriber gains in a broad if fleeting capacity (depending on how the game turns out).
Or Two, there isn't much information given and therefore if something happens and it under delivers on a featureset, fewer people know about it and there is less backlash. However, by not delivering on the game, and not advertising enough, the game would be considered a "slow burning" game, in the event the development team expects its popularity to eventually grow to an inferno.
Then again, depending on developmental costs, some games can be content with very low subscriber numbers, but it would be extremely important to know ahead of time what that amount would be to turn a profit, or at least break even.
My fear is that, without spending enough time advertising the features of this game, as it becomes available, there is a risk that other "spiritual successors" to CoH garner a greater response from the community. While each project has its own merits and differences, if people don't know them, they'll simply assume that the one they hear about the most is the more prominent one.
Take the example of battle royale games right now. There are dozens of them, and some of them are better than they're given credit for, but most of the ones people have heard about are PUBG or Fortnite, all others fall to the wayside.
At this time, it's unlikely that we'll see such saturation in the superhero MMO genre... but if 3 of the 4 upcoming superhero spiritual successors launch, 5 superhero MMOs is a little much in terms of competition.
Frankly, I tend to think that the marketing of this game is a matter to begin in earnest after the chargen has been released to supporters and gotten significant feedback. Possibly, sometime after feedback depending on how it well it goes. I say this because of the level of devotion this game genre scores. We aren't the largest group of gamers out there by far but we are an overwhelmingly devoted player base. Just take the existence of some currently running rivals and this point becomes clear. Rivals that in my opinion all pale in comparison to COH.
Personally, I have seen several people that have backed more than one of the "spiritual successors". I don't think subscribers are really going to only hear about one of the three or however many more variations of this gaming genre may be in production in the up coming years. What I do think they will hear about is how the one effort that was literally strung together on a shoestring, completely decentralized, with little more than hope managed to develop a quality gaming experience that not only reflected the original game in concept but surpasses it in several if not every way made it happen! How they managed to develop a game recreating a home for an entire community of gamers. Something none of the rivals have as yet done. Will people play the other games too? Absolutely, I don't think any of us won't given the chance. However, I also think each of us will stick with whichever game gives us the experience we want. Based on the evidence I've seen all the projects are doing great but I think the work going into COT will significantly outscore the competition. Quality takes time. Deadlines make for rash hurried decisions and a lesser product if not in a few ways then in a general overall way. I believe this is already evident in at least one of the competitors though time will tell.
I think waiting for quality craftsmanship is always worth it. Frequently those games that were advertised too early and all hyped up were pretty disappointing when it came down to actually playing them, often because the fan base wanted them ready as soon as they got a taste from the advertising. The MWM team knows this. They also know that when they make statements about what they are planning to offer we hear them and more than a few of us soak those words up in anticipation of epic improvements over an already outstanding gaming experience. I don't think they want to disappoint anyone but most of all the devotees that love this game, themselves included.
I know it is painstaking to wait for information. Worse yet to wait for the eventual game but I believe it will be worth it. Moreover, I really think the level of attention this game is going to harbor will be outstanding. COH was and the COT devs have already discussed a great deal that if well implemented will improve concepts, overall designs, lore, and possibly most important - mechanics, including several subtle nuances the predecessor game failed to ever successfully address.
I think marketing will explode when they start openly releasing this game. The Chargen alone will raise enough attention to draw several gamers from other games to see what all the hype is about but now is not yet the time. Soon but not yet. Make sure the product will survive the hard test - the devoted fans before drawing in the masses to enjoy it - moreover critique it. If we give it the thumbs up then other gaming crowds will be more apt to lend their ear and see for themselves.
Perhaps I am being naive but I don't believe marketing this game will be a problem once it is really ready and the word starts getting out about it. No good reason to get ahead of ourselves. Let the flavors marinate until the dish is ready to serve. Then ring the dinner bell!
I still have hope and patience!
Just my thoughts on the matter...
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
Ya know, a simple way to advertise that we the players can help with is to open an account with Deviant Art or a Tumbler art site and simply post characters from the Creator when it is released---AND post a link to the creator and COT main page. It costs nothing and it is something we can do as soon as its released.
For those with a little cash, buy a program that lets you record games and post videos to YouTube...again with a link in the description to the creator and COT main page.
Likely the Devs are already discussing plans. If we get a 100 or a 1000 sites out there, we can do a lot of good for the game.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Black Desert Online gained notoriety for it's character creator... Unless CoT's is on par or better it might not make as much of a splash as you all think it might.
It combines with some sweet superhero gameplay however... Then it starts being interesting.
Many games have fairly robust character creators, not many of those games allow you to fly without a mount.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I agree there are many interesting character creators for games now-a-days. But CoT's character creator will likely be relatively unique because it stresses a different aspect of character design that most other games don't - fully customizable costumes.
For example Black Desert Online's character creator has maybe 3 bazillion slider controls to customize your character's eyebrows (which I'm sure excites plenty of people out there) but it only has like 10 preset costume choices that you can't really customize too much if at all. I think/hope the strength of CoT's system will be the relatively large number of mix-n-match costume options.
Sure it might not be enough to "sell" the game all by itself. But I wouldn't discount its overall impact and the general anticipation people have for it.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
^^^ What Lothic said. I'm proposing VISIBILITY to the gamers at large. Posting images and video is not so much an advertisement, as it is creating awareness where there was none before. I already have a gallery folder on DA to push the Chargen. I'm going hogwild the moment the devs say we can.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Ive always loved cinematics and I think putting some money down for that production would be wise. Its almost a given to have cinematic trailers in games these days, and with a lot of movies using cgi nowadays it has almost trained the public to enjoy that kind of stuff.
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
Have to agree with Cyclops (#76) and Lothic (#78) - A combination of early release of the chargen, allowing posting to art sites (rather than heavy-handed NDAs), and costume customization...is not something any other game has provided to my knowledge. We should take full advantage of that.
Most (not most but many) development studios release some version of an early stage of the game, most especially in the MMO space, but not just a single costume creator (save for SPORE which released it's character creator some months before the actual release)
Another notable early piece released for a title was Landmark, which was supposed to be a precursory portion of EverQuest Next, meant to be kind of like SPORE's early creation tool was, you basically got to create things for the upcoming title release, but Landmark transitioned more into a standalone thing and was scrapped altogether once EQN was canceled.
Again the argument could be made that CoH wasn't so much "an excellent MMO that had a pretty good costume creator" as much as an "excellent costume creator that had a pretty good MMO attached to it to show off those costumes". Yes, in some circles the CoH costume creator was so impactful and revolutionary that it almost by itself "made" the game as memorable and worthwhile as it ended up being.
Thus for CoT to -not- showcase its costume creator as a primary strength would probably be a mistake. This is why offering it as part of the "marketing" of the game is so crucial.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I didn't say that they shouldn't use it in marketing, nor am I saying that character creation in CoH was bad for it's time. Revolutionary, well, that's a topic for another conversation. I think there were specific things CoH did that actually became revolutionary, though they didn't get credit for them, but the character creator, while a great piece of the game, wasn't innovative, revolutionary or genre defining. (In the MMO space, not the superhero MMO space). I think what they (CoT) put out recently could be utilized quite effectively in marketing at this very time, but a character creator standalone for anything more than perhaps testing purposes would stop very short of what will draw players in, if all you can do is create a few characters without seeing them move in any true capacity.
In terms of marketing putting out a standalone costume creator makes no more sense than an early access persistent alpha. From what it sounds like, players popping in during alpha isn't what their vision is for their marketing plan.
I think they should definitely get that costume creator out there, show people what it can do in planned streams and interviews, but I don't think a pure standalone client for a character creator would be an exceptional marketing strategy.
I actually think both Lothic and Deksam are correct here. This is to say yes the COH costume creator was the showcase of the game. I'm not discounting the game here just noting how invaluable the costume creator was for the game. I mean honestly I spent hours in the costume creator and I'm sure others spent many more than I. Showcasing it is absolutely necessary, however... Not until plenty of time in "alpha"/"beta" testing with the supporters in order to flesh out any shortcomings it may still have or at least to mediate the onset of possibly infeasible expectations versus those changes that may come in later updates.(Honestly, I kinda got to really liking the "updates" as they showed that there were still tricks up the sleeves of the devs that I hadn't counted on.) But I wouldn't throw the creator out there as a marketing tool at least until properly vetted by not only the devs but at least the supporter class of gamers. Then after careful evaluation decide if it is needing modification, overhaul, or (crossed fingers) use as a marketing tool in conjunction with an "open beta" meaning with a live world to interact not just the creator alone.
Again, I'm sure this is already in the minds of the devs and all we area doing is gossiping on conjecture.
Frankly, I'm super excited that they aren't advancing the gaming engine due to how close they are with the Chargen. Very reassuring so far as I'm concerned.
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
Perhaps it would be safest to say we all simply want CoT, right now, period. We want a fully functional character/costume creator AND a good MMO to play those characters in and ideally any marketing of this game would highlight -both- of those things.
As a person who's basically already "completely sold" on the idea of CoT I'm ironically among the last people in the world who needs "marketing" of any kind to convince me to give this game a try. Based on that alone I'm perfectly willing to admit I likely have a skewed perspective on the subject. In general I would agree that having a standalone costume creator for CoT would probably -not- be all MWM would ideally need to successfully sell CoT to someone who has never heard of it before. But given that MWM's "plan" for years has been to have a full functional standalone costume creator released [b]before[/b] the game itself I see no reason why that "plan" needs to be abandoned/altered at this point.
As rookslide alluded to I was one of those folks who spent countless hours tinkering on costumes for my characters. Frankly for all we know there might be a number of people out there who end up never (ever) seriously wanting to play the actual "game" beyond simply enjoying the "Barbie paper dolls" part with costume creator and if those folks want to financially support just that half of the overall game who am I to care or judge? Best to get those people on board ASAP than to wait too long worrying about getting the entire game running first. If the costume creator is good enough then people will come back to try the game itself once it's ready.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]